Tribes want governor to apologize for firing Indian Affairs director

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  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 25, 2011 10:03 a.m.


    The LDS Church is a world wide organization and does more than it's fair share to help the poor and needy everywhere.

    None of Heavenly Father's children are "less deserving", but surely you don't expect the LDS Church to carry the entire burden upon their shoulders. Perhaps, LDSBORN, you could lend a helping hand to the local Native Americans.

  • LDSBORN Nashville, TN
    March 24, 2011 7:13 p.m.

    This is 2011 and we have how many Native Americans without water? I find this appalling when the LDS Church has spent thousands bringing water to Africa. I find it hard to believe that the Church would not do this for the American Natives in Utah for which we owe a lot. When Brigham Young brought the pioneers to the valley they were met my the Indians. It was the Indians even after the military told them to run the Mormons off their land, said no and welcomed them to stay. This issue is about politics, but it goes a lot further. President Monson, the Church has an obligation to these people, not only for the land taken but for the help they give. How can God tell you to set up clean water for people in other countries when you as a Church a are not taking care of the people in your own backyard who are your neighbors. Are they less deserving?

  • Considering Stockton, UT
    March 24, 2011 1:24 p.m.


    I've family who live on the Navajo reservation. Others who spend considerable time on the Apache reservation. Among western US tribes, education is not only discounted, but wo be to the child who actually excels in his or her studies. He is mocked for embracing the "white man's ways."

    The reservation system certainly ENABLES this kind of attitude. That is the great evil of the dole. But the reservation system does not REQUIRE it. Individuals do remain free to embrace education, hard work, and to assimilate into larger society.

    But keep blaming me and others for wrongs committed 100+ years ago. Not only will it not get you or the AmerIndians anywhere, but it will waste energy better spent elsewhere. I can no more right the wrongs against prior generations of AmerIndians than anyone can right the wrongs against long since deceased African Slaves or 19th century mormons.

    Bad things happened. They can't be undone now. The real victims are long since departed this world and their descendants need to live in the world as it exists today rather than clinging to victim status.

  • Considering Stockton, UT
    March 24, 2011 1:15 p.m.

    The atrocities committed against the American Indians are one very good reason why we today should secure our borders and get serious about interior enforcement. When a new culture takes over an area, the older, existing culture and those people who subscribe to it tend not to fare very well.

    Can't justify what happened to the American Indians. But only a fool would sign up his posterity to play that role next time around.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 24, 2011 12:52 p.m.


    No, your interpretation of my comment is pretty much 180 degrees off the mark. Having personally lived on the Navajo Reservation I can state from personal first hand observation that you are badly misinformed at best.

    And no, I worked hard with my own two hands for everything I have and enjoy.

    None of the above however changes the fact that Indian Affairs director Forrest Cuch was an at-will employee who worked at the pleasure of the Governor.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    March 24, 2011 11:48 a.m.

    To "JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt | 9:25 a.m." but even the "native" americans are not native. Archeological information shows that they immigrated here from other parts of the world.

    The only difference between the Native Americans and the Whites is that the Native Americans got here first.

    Next, you have the question of multiple migrations (pre-historic, and pre-columbus), and who claimed territory and stole from who.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    March 24, 2011 11:40 a.m.

    ---Rifleman | 11:20 a.m. March 24, 2011
    Salt Lake City, UtahIt is unfortunate that the Native Americans didn't have an immigration policy and that they didn't enforce it. Whose fault is it that they allowed themselves to be overrun and driven onto reservations?--

    Yeah because the slaughter of men women and children as they fought for their land wasn't "enforcement"

    Sooooo let me get this straight, according to your logic, if hordes of Mexicans or Canadians overran the border, violently killed men women and children and took the land. Then the "lack of enforcing" an immigration policy would mean it is ok for them to commit genocide in this country because they DESERVE IT? That makes EVERYTHING OK right? Justifiable homicide. That is what you are saying by your own logic. Just because the Europeans had guns didn't make what they did right. We enjoy this country today and I include myself in those that actually acknowledge it was stolen. I at least try to help my fellow America, real American, the Native American uplift their people instead of spitting on them as I walk by with a judgmental eye?

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    March 24, 2011 11:32 a.m.

    ---Considering | 11:04 a.m. March 24, 2011
    Stockton, UT---

    You no doubt checked with EVERY Native American Tribe who the land belonged to right? How many treaties by the US government were broken when there WAS a system?

    Are you serious? They do not shun education, the system and life forced upon them by these reservations leads to a viscous cycle of hopelessness. Your statement reeks of White Privileged attitude that assumes everyone in this country has the same leg up on economic success.

    Saying you are NOT accountable for this is like enjoying the 60" TV you grandfather stole but you enjoy the usage of because YOU do didn't steal it. Your hands are clean for enjoying a stolen product so the people who it was stolen from should just "get over it"? If your uncle took someone's home by point of a gun and you lived there would that be ok? If your mother conned a family out of car and gave it to you does that make it ok?

    How much stealing is ok to you?

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 24, 2011 11:20 a.m.

    Re: JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt

    It is unfortunate that the Native Americans didn't have an immigration policy and that they didn't enforce it. Whose fault is it that they allowed themselves to be overrun and driven onto reservations?

    The non-issue before us at the moment, however, is the incontestable right of the Governor to fire an at-will employee. No apology is required, and none will be issued.

  • Considering Stockton, UT
    March 24, 2011 11:04 a.m.


    European settlers were not "illegal" in that the AmerInidans had no laws against immigration. There can be no doubt that the AmerIndians were treated very, very badly. That treaties were repeatedly broken, and that unspeakable atrocities were committed.

    Please note however that these things happened before any of us were born. And they were started long before either current political party existed. This is not a partisan issue and anyone who tries to make it one is a total hack.

    I will not be held to account for the wrong doing of prior generations. Nor will I expect to be compensated for the wrongs committed against my ancestors including both those who were AmerIndian as well as those who were mormons in NY, Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois.

    The worst thing that was ever done to the AmerIndians, however, was the reservation system. The evils of the dole are even worse for the recipient than for those paying the bills. It is not 1900 or 1800. Mormons no longer expect to live an agrarian lifestyle. AmerIndians need to stop clinging to the past, stop shunning education, and assimilate into the real world.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    March 24, 2011 10:49 a.m.

    If any of you have seen the condition we have left Native Americans in and had to live it for a month, your tunes might be different. We took the prime land. left them with desolate unproductive reservations, broke one treaty after another and killed many of them, maybe you would not act so indignantly toward Real Americans, the Native Americans.

    You conservatives and Republicans always talk about the Rule of Law but ignore how many bald faced lies were committed in breaking of hundreds of treaties.

    Now the little or non informed are chiming in on Native American matters they have NO idea about.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    March 24, 2011 10:19 a.m.

    @JohnJacob: Not only might they be, they are. And white society is greedy, which is why we are in the mess we are in.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    March 24, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    Interesting how caucasians think they are the native people of this country. Ever think that you might actually be the Illegals you complain about?

  • Chickenchaser Centralia, WA
    March 24, 2011 8:24 a.m.

    Don't know the specifics here, but have more reason to believe the firing was justified than not. I suspect that if the firing's rationale was submitted we'd have Pandora's box to deal with. The water and power shenanigans in Southern Utah and Northern Arizona suggest that something is terribly wrong. Perhaps the U.S. Congress should be fired too since they are a bigger part of this than Utah.
    This is 2011 and we have how many Native Americans without water?

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    March 24, 2011 7:58 a.m.

    Between the lines....It sounds like Cuch just wasn't doing his job. Sometimes people are allowed to continue in political appointments because it's politically difficult to fire them even if they aren't doing a good job. The Gov probably decided this had gone on long enough and had the guts to fire him. That's really all we need to know. Now, he can find someone who will do the job.

  • RShackleford Saint George, UT
    March 24, 2011 7:30 a.m.

    Indians, Most of us want an apology for Herbert for the bad bills that he signed this year. Namely the amnesty he signed for illegals.--"mohokat"


  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    March 24, 2011 7:10 a.m.

    Indians, Most of us want an apology for Herbert for the bad bills that he signed this year. Namely the amnesty he signed for illegals.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 24, 2011 6:29 a.m.

    Indian Affairs director Forrest Cuch was an "AT Will" employee meaning that unless there was an express contract either party could break the relationship with no liability.

    Translation: The Governor doesn't owe anybody an apology. Mr. Coch, just like every other director, knew and understood that the Governor could keep or fire him for any reason or no reason whatsoever.

    When Bill Clinton was elected President one of the first things he did was fire their travel agency staff.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    March 24, 2011 6:18 a.m.

    For clues, read between the lines spoken by Governor Herbert and his spokeswoman.

    "someone with passion about their duties and delivering results"

    "help us get things done"

    Is the Governor looking for frank input or a "team player?"