BYU basketball: Cougars stay on collision course with SDSU

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  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    Feb. 25, 2011 11:20 p.m.

    Mormon Ute,

    I'd have to disagree with most of your analysis of who trumps who. You listed BYU and Utah equal for fan interest, exposure, and recruiting? That's not a very objective view. For one, Utah only beat BYU in recruiting just this year, and that was because of many outside factors (RMs aren't included in the ranking, Utah's needs vs BYU's needs, BYU is young while Utah graduated a lot of important players, etc.). With thousands of nationwide BYU fans it's difficult to claim that there would be more national interest in a Utah-USC game than a BYU-TCU game in Cowboy stadium or BYU-Texas in Texas, especially considering Texas and USC will likely moniter BYU's success as an independent.

    I wish Utah success in the future, as well as BYU, but I think it will take quite a few seasons before we can fully analyze the impact these decisions had. I am positive they were both for the better-- how much good it will do is up to how well the teams do. If Utah and/or BYU goes 6-6, the situation isn't much better.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 4:09 p.m.

    The Rock,

    A couple of problems with your comments:

    On the officiating - against CSU even BYU's own radio comentators stated that Jimmer plays like a football linebacker. He initiates as much or more contact than is thrown at him. That being the case, he runs the risk of having as many fouls called on him as would be called on the opposing players, if he insists on equal calls.

    On greener pastures - for football, yes I can see that. For basketball? I would hardly call the WCC greener pastures. As I said earlier, BYU threw the other sports under the bus when they went independent in football. I don't think any of the other basketball teams are out to get BYU for anything other than their ranking. I hope they are able to eventually get their other sports into a better conference.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Feb. 25, 2011 12:21 p.m.

    Just a few facts:

    1. Officials are accountable to the board of coaches in a conference.
    2. A coach can bar an official from officiating at his teams games if he feels the official is bias. I believe they can do this to up to three officials.
    3. The coaches in the MWC can fire poor officials.
    4. Coaches get fired if they lose too many games.

    Jimmer is getting mugged on the floor.

    Because the poor officiating is in the favor of the other coaches and BYU is leaving the MWC, Coach Rose has zero recourse against the offending referees. They are going to allow Jimmer to get killed, if that is what it takes, to "get even" with BYU (the class of the conference) for moving on to greener pastures.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 12:10 p.m.


    I've never said anything negative about BYU independence (you may be confusing me with others). I only defend against those who claim BYU's choice is so much better than Utah's and will pay so much more in dividends to BYU than Utah will get. I have always maintained I am sad to see the schools go different directions, because I think they are natural partners and excellent rivals. The PAC-10 made a huge mistake, but that was beyond our control.

    Prior to the past decade, I agree BYU had much more success in football than Utah. However, look at the season and bowl records for the past decade and it's a different story. Also, Utah has more than held it's own in basketball going all the way back to the beggining of the rivalry/partnership. So to say BYU is the big brother who always carried Utah along is not fair or accurate.

    BYU's move to independence in football will be good, but unfortunately as a result of the WAC deal falling apart the other sports will suffer.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 12:08 p.m.


    "BYU carried the conference including Utah for 3+ decades and there shouldn't be much debate about it."

    I wish both BYU and Utah well. I believe BYU will do well as an independent. I just wish the MWC would have allowed BYU to keep the minor sports in the conference and allow football its independence and I wish BYU would have stuck it out a while longer to persuade the MWC presidents in that direction. I am not trying to nit pick here but your comment above ignores all the NCAA basketball tourney runs that Utah made including one to the championship game that made boat loads of money for the WAC and the MWC. I think you need to temper your beliefs that BYU has been the sole financial provider for the league(s).

  • JDL Magna, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 11:44 a.m.

    Mormon Ute:

    I gave Utah credit for the two BCS bowl games but beside those 2 games, BYU carried the conference including Utah for 3+ decades and there shouldn't be much debate about it.

    I have no clue as to who sat in on what negotiations in Utah's invitation to join the PAC 12. Had BYU been asked to join (in my opinion) they would have, with one of many reasons, to keep the partnership with Utah alive.

    They were not invited (I'm not going to debate here, why not) so they pursued other options which included independence. As stated in other posts, BYU was not forced or intimidated into independence but rather kept that option open for close to a decade and all the while developed their broadcast facilities with that plan in mind.

    I'm happy for Utah and the PAC 12 but what I don't understand is why all the negative about BYU Independence.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 25, 2011 11:43 a.m.

    "Once Utah left the MWC there was no reason for BYU to stay any longer"


    So what powerful force did Utah possess that kept the kewgs in the MWC for so long?

    Could it be that BYU was hoping to piggy back on Utah for access to the PAC? Utah was BYU's backdoor ticket. That my friend was the "natural option".

    Clearly the tds was waiting for the invitation that never came.

    What followed was a series of "irrational actions" stirred by fear, jealousy and failure.

  • JDL Magna, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 11:21 a.m.

    Once Utah left the MWC there was no reason for BYU to stay any longer. The reason for BYU leaving was not about money, was not about shooting any other program in the head, it was not about picking up the toys and going home; it was about exposure for the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints.

    After years of trying to play nice with Mr. Thompson and the MWC, Independence was the natural option.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 10:02 a.m.


    Don't make me laugh. The bowl revenue alone from our two BCS bowls not to mention the longest streak of bowl wins in the nation that sadly ended this year, more than compensated for any money BYU brought to the conference and shared with the Utes (and every other conference member). I do agree that without adding more schools the conference could not survive without both of us. I am also sad that the PAC-12 chose not to invite BYU. I truly believe the PAC-12 was short sited and would have been much more enhanced by bringing in the rivalry than trying to create one between Utah and Colorado. But the fact that we got invited to the PAC-12 without BYU speaks volumes about our ability to stand on our own.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 9:55 a.m.

    Continuing on Bluto,

    You said BYU has the Utes trumped in every way. I say no way.

    Fan interest - this may be about equal. I know BYU fans are thrilled with the enhanced TV coverage and the new football schedules. Basketball, not so much, but there is an improvement over what was going on with the mtn and the MWC for both schools.

    TV coverage - yes, BYU will be on ESPN more than the Utes, but ESPN doesn't control everything in college sports. As long as we're on TV where our core fan bases are, that's what counts. You have a more wide spread fan base due to the Church affiliation. Ours is more regional, because it is more centered around our alumni. So a regional TV deal suits us just fine where a national deal helps you more. I think this is about equal.

    Exposure - I think we've got you here. We will be playing top 25 teams in our conference schedules for BB and FB every season.

    Recruiting - we've got you here and it is already showing. Just look at this years classes.

    No you don't have us trumped in every way.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 9:52 a.m.


    "BYU stayed and protected Utah's interest, all the while subsidizing Utah's financial viability"

    When U president Michael Young, a BYU grad, and Chris Hill, the long time AD at Utah who has cultivated great relations with many BYU administrators, were in discussions over a long period of time with the PAC 10 presidents and new commissioner Larry Scott and former commissioner Tom Hansen, regarding PAC 10 expansion issues how do you know that Young and Hill were not advocating and pushing for BYU to be included in the expanding membership? You don't, so your snide remark rings hollow. I firmly believe and bet that Young and Hill pushed for BYU to be included, after all the two schools have been in the same conference together since about 1920. I believe they were disappointed that they couldn't make it happen.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 9:48 a.m.


    "Reality....BYU has trumped Utah in every way." Not hardly.

    Let's break it down:

    Money - the Utes share of the TV revenue from the new PAC-12 conference championship football game is enough to compensate for the mtn revenue we got each year. In 2012 when we get a full share of the seasons TV revenue and the bowl revenue BYU will not be able to touch that figure even if you add up all the revenue from your basketball and TV deals combined. Then you add to that our share of the TV revenue from're in dream land Bluto. Get your head out of the clouds.
    Competition - The Utes are in a conference with built in top 25 competition in both football and basketball. No need to go out stumping every year to fill the schedule. I think they Utes win out here too. Our track and gymnastics teams aren't going to have a problem either.

    Running out of be continued.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 9:36 a.m.


    I'm at all worried about the Utes getting on TV. Remember, we've been dealing with the mtn debacle as well and joined with BYU in hiring an attorney to try to get out of that awful situation. So, any deal is better than what we have. The situation looking for local coverage of our games is only for one season. By the next season we will be fully integrated into the PAC-12 tv coverage schedule and that TV coverage is due to improve by leaps and bounds as the PAC-12 renogiates it's deal. I anticipate seeing a combo package including a PAC-12 channel with Fox or another large network as a partner picking up marquee games for more wide distribution. We can argue all day over who got the better TV deal, but the bottom line is both schools have improved their situation over what they had before.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 25, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    "BYU stayed and protected Utah's interest, all the while subsidizing Utah's financial viability"


    And then put a gun to the head of Utah St. Nevada and Fresno - classy. Actions speak louder than words and these actions will not be forgotten by the MWC and WAC programs.

    I suppose the good part about byu picking up their toys and going home is that they'll never need to form meaningful relationships with other programs. It's been proven to be your achilles heel.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 8:53 a.m.

    No one yet has made a case why staying one more year in the MWC and working out a soft landing for the minor sports to stay in the MWC while the football program made an exit to independence would have been detrimental to BYU. Money was not an issue as proven by Deseret News reports on the financial condition of BYU athletics. Exposure for the football program is an issue but waiting one year in the MWC while the presidents could civily discuss and resolve the matter would have been advantageous to all parties. I am sorry that my honest discussion of this matter resorts to calling me names and questioning my motivations. You can call me all the names you want but you do not know me but you are a little quick to judge my character.

    If Holmoe had studied the issue for years as you claim and I do not doubt your claims then how would taking more time and articulating the finding from those studies to the MWC presidents have hurt the cause? Sometimes taking a step back and working things out results in a better outcome.

  • JDL Magna, UT
    Feb. 25, 2011 8:25 a.m.

    Bluto / Sports authority

    I agree with your sentiments and I would add the most important ingredient to the timing of BYU's departure was that BYU stayed in the MWC because of their loyalty to Utah.

    BYU stayed and protected Utah's interest, all the while subsidizing Utah's financial viability.

    With full credit going to Utah for 2 BCS wins, the fact cannot be disputed that aside from those 2 events, BYU sheltered, clothed, and fed little brother Utah.

  • dallas realist rockwall, texas
    Feb. 25, 2011 12:23 a.m.

    byu wins by 8 because they are better on the charity stripe. they are better on offense. their D is underated. their speed is underated,(just watch emery). one thing that worries me is making sure they out rebound sdsu. they play a lot of zone so rebounding could be an issue. no worries though, jimmer will get his way

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    Feb. 24, 2011 10:24 p.m.

    "And so holmoe decides to make such a haphazard decesion only days after Utah was invited to the PAC? I don't buy it."

    I have it from very credible sources that the decision to go independent was made about 4 or 5 years ago. The only question was when. When Utah left, the answer seemd obvious. BYU was looking for an excuse to leave the MWC and Utah provided them the opportunity. Unless you are in the committee that made the decision, I doubt you know BYU's true intentions for any sports decisions they make. I only say this because it comes from credible sources.

    Hope that clears up any misconceptions about Holmoe.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 8:11 p.m.


    Tom Holmoe has 5 Super Bowl rings...

    He cowers to no man or situation.

    What are your achievements? Seriously, you of all people are questioning Tom Holmoe's honor?

    Rest assured, he doesn't pay any attention to guys like you anonymous "nattering nabobs of negativism".

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 8:08 p.m.


    Spijt me, but you don't speak for any BYU fans that I know of, and certainly not the vast majority of BYU fans who are thrilled to escape the MTN!

    You and hedgehog a much alike; one a disgruntled juvenile who hates all things BYU, and one a pretend, jilted BYU fan, who wants people to think he was once a BYU fan, but never was, not even when he was a BYU student.

    Holmoe is doing a fantastic job at BYU given the cards he's been dealt.

    The sad fact is jealous, BYU haters are scared to death that if BYU is even somewhat successful as an independent, BYU's move to independence will steal all of Utah's PAC 12 thunder.

    EIGHT months after Utah SUPPOSEDLY left BYU in their PAC 12 dust, those same Utah fans are still here obsessing about BYU.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 8:00 p.m.

    Dutchman your BYU degree was obviously not an MBA.

    BYU tried for 5 years to alter this TV Deal, that is on the record.
    They also already proposed Independence for Football while remaining in the MWC. It was rejected.

    If you call messing up, taking your TV reveunes from 1.5 million a year to 12 million, then we'll live with that mess up.

    If you call being on National TV, for every game, Football and Basketball, and having ESPN help to set your schedules, then dito to that.

    If you have been around the LDS Chruch or BYU then you should know that they always have contingency plans.

    They prepare....

    If you think they woke up after Utah joined the Pac-12, and in 6 months, without forethought....

    *forged a multimillion dollar deal with ESPN
    *hard wiredHD all venues on BYU campus
    *built and completed a 50 million dollar state of the art BroadcastFacility
    *Bought a multimillion dollar HD Truck
    *And got BYU-TV into 60 million homes, basic tier, and Internationally as well

    Then you are beyond naive.

    Hedgie needs to believe BYU dances to Utah's drummer.

    Reality....BYU has trumped Utah in every way.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 7:19 p.m.

    I will go ahead and say what almost all BYU fans are too stubborn or afraid to say, Holmoe messed up. He acted too quickly. Yes, the TV deal was bad and is a good reason to leave the MWC, but by the Deseret News own analysis the BYU athletic dept is not in dire straights, has no red ink and is making money. So, Holmoe's move does look like a knee jerk reaction. He could have stayed in the MWC another year, again BYU was not losing money, while President Samuelson worked with the other MWC presidents including U of U President Young who is a BYU grad and still a member of the MWC to fashion an exit for BYU's football program to independence while keeping its strong minor sports including basketball in the MWC. The mtn. channel does not deliver exposure for football but it does an adequate job exposure wise for the minor sports. This added time would have allowed the MWC presidents to come together in a civil manner and tell Craig Thompson "Stop prepping your hair and make it happen, BYU football to independence, Hawaii football in, BYU sports to remain".

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 24, 2011 7:05 p.m.

    "BYU had been discussing and planning for this possibility for years, long before Utah was even a glimmer in the PAC 10's eye."



    And so holmoe decides to make such a haphazard decesion only days after Utah was invited to the PAC? I don't buy it.

    Planning? which included two weeks of hiding under the bed and avoiding the media while attempting desperate posion pill deals with WAC teams? Only to be regected once again?

    Just admit that in the game of musical chairs you landed on your ...

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    Feb. 24, 2011 5:11 p.m.


    If you don't want to hear about the bad TV deal, then you obviously haven't been paying any attention, because the bad TV deal was the overriding factor to BYU leaving the MWC.

    Waiting a year wasn't going to change that.

    Adding certain teams wasn't going to change that.

    Even getting rid of Craig Thompson as MWC commissioner wasn't going to change that.

    Leaving the MWC was the only thing that was going to get BYU out of that bad TV deal which will exist long after BYU leaves the MWC.

    Boise State fans are in for a rude awakening when they find out just how bad the MTN is.

    The fact is, the MWC had signed over all of their television rights to the Comcast and the MTN, for peanuts, and the MTN wasn't interested making any concessions.

    You've obviously been drinking hedgy's red koolaid if you believe BYU leaving the MTN was a knee-jerk reaction to Utah joining the PAC 12.

    BYU had been discussing and planning for this possibility for years, long before Utah was even a glimmer in the PAC 10's eye.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 4:37 p.m.

    I think the troll in these comments is a 6th grader.

    Just my opinion!

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 4:15 p.m.

    LonestarRunner and Bluto,

    You didn't answer the question. Yes, I have a legitimate interest in what happens at BYU because I have a degree from BYU. Again, what would have been the problem to wait at least one more year as a member of the MWC while cooler heads prevailed and more analysis was put into the matter? Please don't give me the bad TV deal line. We all understand that. Again, with Hawaii as a football only member it seems to me that over time as the MWC presidents and BYU considered the situation in more depth and civility that they could have agreed to allow BYU to go independent in football and leave the rest of the sports in the MWC. Yes, I did watch the Utah St. vs St Mary's game last saturday from McKeon Pavilion and what a joke. Eight road games in gyms like that. Blaine Fowler's comments from last night ring true. Cottonwood High School and Salt Lake Community College have better basketball facilities than the Wcc. I read where BYU's swimming and diving team is challenging for another conference title. Where are they going to do that?

  • nunya sacramento, ca
    Feb. 24, 2011 4:11 p.m.

    I actually really like hedgie and chrissy or any ute fan passionately disliking and hoping for the Cougs to lose....I say that because I feel just as passionate towards BSU, it seems the more I want them to fall flat and lose, the more they win. So hedgie, chrissy, lemon ade or any ute fan...keep wishing passionately that they lose.....It's nice to see it finally benefiting a team I actually like.

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    Feb. 24, 2011 4:01 p.m.

    It's funny how the haters are out in force predicting a loss to SDSU after a hard-fought game against the Rams. Kinda sounds like the rumors and promises of a pending Cougar collapse against the Aztecs last month after a tough match-up in Ft. Collins? But we all know how that game turned out don't we?

  • CG Orem, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 3:47 p.m.


    As Utah proved this year when the Utes played San Diego, the Utes wouldn't even be competitive in the WCC.

    If finishing at the bottom of the PAC 12 makes U feel better than finishing at the bottom of the WCC is what floats your boat, enjoy!

    Regardless of which conference the Cougars are in, MWC or WCC, Coach Rose will have BYU winning 20+ games and playing in the Big Dance every year.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 3:42 p.m.


    Remember BYU will only have 16 WCC games, and only 8 of those will be on the road.

    That leaves 8 of those WCC games at the 22,700 seat Marriott Center.

    It also leaves another 14-16 open dates, to be scheduled against teams all over the Country. ESPN owns the rights to BYU's home B-ball games, there will be many great games and experiences in storied arenas for the Cougars to compete in.

    I suggest the Utes just worry about how their teams can even get local TV deals.

    Arizona right now, Arizona! is complaining about how they are never on TV. Arizona! a storied program.

    Chew on that.

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Feb. 24, 2011 3:34 p.m.

    Wow hedgie wedgiekins,
    You've eclipsed how many times you have commented on ANY Utesies article, how many comments does that make on this one BYU article?
    Geez, your love affair with Jimmer and BYU is becoming quite consuming.
    Hope you "Mark it down" in your little Jimmer journal how many points he scores at SDSU.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 3:29 p.m.

    @ Jazzman aka Hedgie

    You do realize that if Jimmer is hammered, and consequently misses his shot, and a foul is then called (which is not always the case) he makes up for the missed shot by hitting 2 free throws. Right?

    He made 14 free throws on 16 attempts. Most of those were 2 shot fouls, therefore the missed shots were mitigated.

    Now, if he was not stellar from the line, then you would have a point.

    Only a ute would consider a 34 point and a Victory, subpar.

    We'll take a missed shot every time, if Jimmer can get to the line.

    He's being doubled and tripled teamed, I think he is a Warrior. Great players adapt to every situation and help their team any way they can.

    How many of the Jimmers critics ever scored even 10 points in County/rec?

    Give us a break.

  • Fishtec Kenmore, WA
    Feb. 24, 2011 3:25 p.m.

    Old Gregg | 1:53 p.m. Feb. 24, 2011
    Alpine, UT
    Hedgie is right! What does BYU know about being physical. They let Athletic, physical teams from the Pac12 like Utah (HAHA) and #10 AZ push them around and also other teams like #4 San Diego or #24 Utah State. What would a team with the #1 RPI in the nation know about being physical and athletic.

    Gregg, last time I looked San Diego was not ranked #4, SDSU was! San Diego is that WCC team that is unranked & most likely perched in the lower half of the WCC, you play them next year!

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 3:22 p.m.


    "You won't be playing San Diego until next year in the WCC."

    Not entirely true.

    The #2-ranked BYU men's volleyball team will be playing #13-ranked San Diego tonight and tomorrow night in the Smith Fieldhouse.

    Both matches will be aired live on BYUtv.

    A preview of things to come for BYU football and basketball when they're not playing on ESPN.

    btw, BYU and San Diego both play volleyball in the same conference as UCLA, USC and Stanford.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 3:11 p.m.

    "You won't be playing San Diego until next year in the WCC."

    You're correct.

    Utah is the only Utah team to play San Diego this year -- and it wasn't pretty, for Utah.

  • TrollPolice Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 3:08 p.m.


    For an example of throwing a baby tantrum, see mirror every time BYU wins another game or schedules another big name opponent.

    The Utah trolls are green with jealousy of the prospects of BYU's move to independence completely overshadowing Utah's move to the PAC 12.

    BYU vs TCU in the Jerry Dome
    BYU vs Texas on ESPN
    BYU vs Ol' Miss in a game that, by itself, will generate more revenue for BYU than Utah will get in its entire first year in the PAC 12
    BYU vs West Virginia in Washington DC

    Just a sample of the types of games independence has already opened the doors to BYU playing in.

    And BYU is still 6 months away from playing their first game as an independent.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 2:57 p.m.


    The MWC teams and arenas weren't the issues. Craig Thompson's horrible television contract and all of the broken promises made to BYU about access rights were the main issues.

    Dispite years of complaints from BYU, CT had done NOTHING to address those complaints and it was obvious he wasn't ever going to.

    It wasn't going to matter who joined the MWC, the only way BYU could escape the MTN was to leave the MWC.

    btw, did you bother watching the Utah State-Saint Mary's game last Saturday. McKeon Arena may not be as big as arenas in the PAC 10 and MWC, but it was every bit as loud and raucous.

    Besides, why do you care what happens with BYU and the MWC?

    The Utes' decision to abandon the MWC removed the last "brotherly obligation" the Cougars had for staying in the MWC.

  • Fishtec Kenmore, WA
    Feb. 24, 2011 2:53 p.m.

    "If not I hope San Diego ignores the rest of the Cougars and the Y will win it."

    You won't be playing San Diego until next year in the WCC. Try to be consistent, it's SDSU!

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 24, 2011 2:50 p.m.

    "What would it have hurt for Holmoe to stay in the MWC for one more year while he took more time to assess the situation?"


    Homoe threw a baby tantrum..simple as that. He saw an athletic director (Hill) and a University (Utah) out fox him for 10 years and then win the beauty contest (pac 12 invite). Knee jerk reations of a jilted little brother will often lead to playing in gyms similar to what you see in an elementary school.

    Cooler heads would have gotten BYU independence for football and MWC for everything else.

    Talk about amatuer hour. Dr. Hill is still laughing.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 2:17 p.m.

    I watched the game last night. Great win for the cougs. Because of the way Utah got treated at SDSU by some hooligan fans I hope the cougs beat the pants of the Aztecs. I was interested in a comment made last night by Blaine Fowler former BYU football player. He was commenting on the rabid atmosphere in the Marriott Center and how the CSU players were adjusting to it and then said that any athlete worth his salt wants to play on the road before thousands of fans, the more the better. I totally agree with Fowler. Then I thought of next year when BYU goes on the road in the WCC and plays before maybe 3,000-4,000 fans in tiny gyms. What a disappointment that will be. What would it have hurt for Holmoe to stay in the MWC for one more year while he took more time to assess the situation? With Hawaii coming in the MWC as a football only member it seems to me that BYU could have worked something out with the presidents to leave all sports except football in the MWC while Hawaii came in with football.

  • Old Gregg Alpine, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 1:53 p.m.

    Hedgie is right! What does BYU know about being physical. They let Athletic, phyical teams from the Pac12 like Utah (HAHA) and #10 AZ push them around and also other teams like #4 San Diego or #24 Utah State. What would a team with the #1 RPI in the nation know about being physical and athletic.

    Hedgie makes sence here. If you would just think logically you would see why he is right........(That was complete sarcasim if you couldn't tell)

    And by the way, every night when ESPN talks about BYU they say the word "Great Team."

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 1:46 p.m.

    Jimmer and the Cougars are one and the same hedgehog.

    Chicago and the Bulls.
    Bird and the Celtics.
    Magic and the Lakers.
    Kobe and the Lakers.
    Dr. J and the 76ers.

    Great teams are usually led by great players. The media always dwells on the great players, but everyone who knows anything about basketball knows that great teams, include great, but seldom talked about, supporting casts.

    Davies, Hartsock, and Emery would be starters on every other team in the MWC.

  • blueblood65 Orem, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 1:40 p.m.

    Did you catch the half time show on the MTN during the game?

    Andrea Lloyd and co analysts actually recommended getting more physical with Jimmer to the point of throwing him elbows and shoulders to impede and wear him down.
    To make matter worse they pounded their fists into there hands and looked as though they themselves would like the opportunity to pound on Jimmer for a while.

  • So. Cal Reader Escondido, CA
    Feb. 24, 2011 1:30 p.m.

    You ought to hear/read the local sports talk shows and articles. All they're talking about is shutting Jimmer down-- or "slowing" him down quite a bit. There's little, if any, talk about the rest of the team. Come on, remaining starting 4 and bench, don't let this SDSU alumn, who long ago began to "bleed Cougs blue", down! Please, oh please, oh please!!

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 24, 2011 1:26 p.m.

    Naked Truth,

    Unless you can prove otherwise the media you mention only speak of on player - jimer. As far as positive words about the "team"? well, keep crawling the web...I'm sure you'll find some obscure comment.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 1:25 p.m.

    Naked Truth

    Don't confuse hedgy with the reality outside his little troll bubble.

    Hedgy would be delirious with joy if the Utes had a player who could score 34 points on an off-night shooting.

    Heck, he'd be delirious with joy if the Utes had a player who could score 34 points on a career night.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Feb. 24, 2011 12:52 p.m.

    The shooting was off, but eighty four points is pretty good. Most teams would like scoring that many.

  • Naked Truth Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 24, 2011 11:46 a.m.


    Does this bubble you speak of include national media types like Digger Phelps, Jay Bilas, Dick Vitale, Scott Van Pelt and Gary Parrish, just to name a few? That's one heck of a bubble then because they've all drank heavily from Jimmer's Kool Aid!

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 24, 2011 11:41 a.m.

    "I wish we could bring a law suit against the offending officials, but that would clog up the courts and cause a multitude of other problems."

    The Rock,

    At first I thought this must be a Utah troll, but as a reread the post I suspect this type of "victim" thinking is pretty common.

    Only in the bubble.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Feb. 24, 2011 11:23 a.m.

    Coach Dave Rose famously stated that the best way to defend Jimmer is to foul him.

    It now appears that the other teams were listening and the referees, just to make it fair, are not calling those fouls.

    There needs to be a means available to make officials accountable. They clearly treat Jimmer different than they do other players.

    I wish we could bring a law suit against the offending officials, but that would clog up the courts and cause a multitude of other problems.

    I am open to suggestions...

  • Peter Lemon Providence, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 10:37 a.m.


    Yes, SDSU will most likely be exposed as well. That being said I hope both BYU and SDSU make a great run in the tournament. That would be a great story and a lot of fun to watch.

  • Two Cents Springville, Utah
    Feb. 24, 2011 10:34 a.m.

    I agree, the Cougars looked a bit sloppy last night. Way too many turnovers and fouls. Play like that in San Diego, and we'll have little chance of winning.

    I wish Abouo had had more playing time. And that Rogers had hit something! Oh well. Jimmer, Jackson and Brandon carried the team again, and Noah contributed nicely. These games are not for the faint of heart.

  • TrollPolice Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 10:10 a.m.

    "the bubble of delusion" hangs heavy over a little troll hole in Michigan this morning.

  • sports-junkie West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 10:08 a.m.

    Peter Lemon

    SDSU needed a buzzer beater 3 to beat CSU. Im assuming you think SDSU will be exposed as well?

    Great teams dont ALWAYS blow out their opponent. BYU has done a great job this year of putting teams away, but thats not going to happen every time. Just ask Duke and Tx and Pitt and Ohio St.

    Poor shooting night + 3rd best team in conference + win by eight = very good win. No matter how you slice it, BYU did what they needed to do.

  • 93 COUGAR Orem, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 9:54 a.m.

    Another great win for the Cougars. CSU is a pretty good team and even with the sloppy play and poor shooting we still pull out another win.

    Glad Jimmer got that one out of his system.

    I'm still laughing at 30+ points and trolls are trying to come up with something.

    Hilarious stuff.

    Thanks for the laugh this morning.

    Saturday is going to be a great game.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 9:54 a.m.

    Peter Lemon

    Like you said (by inference), you don't know much about college basketball.

    BYU has been doing just fine against more physical and athletic teams all year.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 24, 2011 9:53 a.m.

    "So far I'm not all that impressed. It seems like it is more hype than real substance. But we will see how far they go in the big dance."

    Peter lemon,

    A very fair assessment from the casual basketball fan.

    Outside of the bubble of delusion, the handful of people who as seen the jimer show come away flat. I have yet to hear the media use words like "great team" or "physical" or "multi demensional" ect..

    No, what you see is what you get. A gimmick shooter, who when guarded will have an accuracy of around 30%.

  • Peter Lemon Providence, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 9:39 a.m.


    Yeah I really don't have any interest in college basketball. As of late I have heard a lot of hype around the office about this BYU team and Jimmer. That sparked my curiosity so I'm keeping an eye on how they do from here on out. So far I'm not all that impressed. It seems like it is more hype than real substance. But we will see how far they go in the big dance. I say they get knocked out by a more physical and athletic team in the second round.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    Peter Lemon

    "I would expect a top ranked team with the player of the year to easily handle a team like CSU, especially at home."

    Then you don't know much about CSU or college basketball.

  • Peter Lemon Providence, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 8:40 a.m.

    I would expect a top ranked team with the player of the year to easily handle a team like CSU, especially at home. BYU will be exposed in the second round of the NCAA tourney.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 8:39 a.m.


    Tne NBA won't be able to double- and triple-team Jimmer like MWC teams are doing because even role players in the NBA are too good to be left unguarded.

    Jimmer got to the foul line about half what he should have considering the hack-a-Jimmer strategy the Rams were using to slow Jimmer down.

  • Tommy2Shoes Lehi, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 8:31 a.m.

    Te defensive sets against Jimmer are getting better. Teams know that they have to help inside and post a big man almost under the basket to try and draw a charging foul. Jimmer needs to fake driving to the middle more for pull up jumpers or jump lobs to open shooters. Can't wait to see what Fisher comes up with this time. This game sets the winner up for a top seed in the tourney. SDST has the edge but we've got Jimmer, Jackson, Noah, Charles, Brandon, Kyle, Stephen, et al to give a great chance for an upset. After we win the pundits will start running down how bad the loser was and we really don't deserve a number 1 seed.

  • JazzMan Centerville, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 8:18 a.m.

    Only 2 Assists and 7 turnovers and shooting 33% on 26 shots and you all call it another great game by Jimmer?

    Those kind of stats translate to end of the bench status in the NBA and a first round loss in NCAA. Good thing he got to the foul line 16 times.

    I think SDSU is going to win the next one I'm afraid.

  • Old Gregg Alpine, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 8:03 a.m.


    Funny how even with Jimmers off night of shooting he himself scored as many points in the first half as the entire Utes team! Something to think about.

    Also, SDSU is ranked higher, playing at home, and are the favorites, so even if the cougs lose it was expected, right? Personally, I think the cougs will get the win even though they are the underdog. You really have no where to go on this one since BYU is predicted to lose.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 24, 2011 7:42 a.m.

    Storm clouds are on the horizion for the kittens.

    "jacker" actually dropped to 34% shooting with a 9 of 26 sizziling performance...bwhaaa haaa haaa haaa ha.

    And it will only get worse as the competition gets better.

    Better get your Chapter 11 paper work together because the business model is broken. GIMMICK LLC. is about to go out of business.

    SDST 87
    tds 71

    MWC tourney:

    soul crushing lose in first round.

    NCAA Tourney: 1st round

    MSU 58
    tds 43

    * "jacker" will shoot 26% for the remaining 3 games


  • So. Cal Reader Escondido, CA
    Feb. 24, 2011 7:24 a.m.

    Re: Tom in CA "Gutsy performance by the Cougars and a quality win. CSU is a terrific team with talented players." I agree; however, also a performance that if they do the same at the Viejas Arena on Saturday, they will get dominated and lose to the Aztecs. For once, Hartsock hits double figures, but what about Emery? Is this guy ever going to hit 20 points again? In stead of barely hitting double figures, Davies, Emery and Hatsock have got to be in the 15-20 point range to win Saturday. Come on, Cougs!!! All the Aztecs, sports talk and papers are talking about the 1-Trick pony of Jimmer. They think that you "control" him by putting fresh bodies on him to slow him down, and they have this game in the bag. The other 3 have got to play their game of the season. Let's put the Aztecs in their place .... in their own house!

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 7:20 a.m.

    Congratulations, BYU, on a terrific win in spite of the officials. We attended the game and saw the physical attack and mugging against Jimmer go unnoticed in the first half of play. This was the worst game for officiating yet.

    I agree that Coach Dave Rose needs to get on this bias early in the SDSU game Saturday to support his team if the same thing happens . He talked to the Refs when it continued after halftime. The slamming and pushing against Jimmer was soooooo noticable from the first possession! When CSU could see that they could physically punish Jimmer and have it go unnoticed, they stepped up the pace. Unbelievable! It could have been stopped in the first two minutes had it been handled correctly by unbiased officials. Please just call it the same at both ends of the court!!!

    We agree that it was hard fought, and commend CSU's fine Coach Miles for his class and determination. Brandon Davies and Jackson Emery were outstanding in this game. Jackson brings so much passion and drive to the game. Every opposing coach seems to comment on him. He should be an All-American for his playing style.

    Go Cougars!

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Feb. 24, 2011 6:20 a.m.

    Our rebounding, steals and free throw shooting have carried us lately. We will need a higher shooting percentage vs. SDSU to win and in the tournaments to follow. I love Jimmer but he is forcing too many shots and has lost his focus somewhat (at 34 points!). He had a few open shots including one drive last night that just weren't even close.

  • What's up? Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 6:09 a.m.

    9for26, 3for8. looks like the long season is showing on Jim.

  • Chris_B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 3:14 a.m.

    "When your defense is extended, you're vulnerable to fouls and to offensive rebounds, and that's what happened. But it was worth the risk, I think."

    Apparently, Coach Miles didn't spend enough time watching video on the kewgs. Time and again, especially on the road (the reason for their high RPI), tds showed that if you "Hack a Shaq" Jimmer or dbl/trpl team him, the other players will step up - or Jimmer will burn you at the charity stripe. He's ice cold at the line.

    Backfired on you, coach. Pyrrhic victory at best in not giving him his field goals. Your strategy was doomed. Any other team? Might have worked. Not this one. You got Jimmered - again.

  • In My Humble Opinion South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 11:55 p.m.

    SammyB | 11:23 p.m. Feb. 23, 2011
    Provo, UT
    I wish I could suggest to Jimmer to lower his dribble when he drives the middle or splits defenders. A low dribble, using the body to cover the ball will cut his turnovers big time.

    Wow, Sammy, it's too bad Jimmer didn't have your advice earlier in his career. He might have had a chance to become a pretty good player...

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Feb. 23, 2011 11:48 p.m.

    Thanks Mormon Ute for the kind words.

    The Aztecs will be the favorites Saturday, as they should be playing at home, but Jimmer seems to save his best games for the most hostile environments, so this going to be a very interesting game.

    Let's hope the Aztec students keep it clean and don't embarrass themselves on national television.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 11:42 p.m.

    12 free throws down the stretch on Davies. Wow, keep on practicing before Saturday game and good luck. Great game Cougars.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 11:30 p.m.

    Congratulations Cougars on a hard fought win in a not so pretty game. Lot's of turnovers and fouls, but you did what you had to do to win. Gotta clean it up by Saturday though.

  • PerfectCougar Payson, UTAH
    Feb. 23, 2011 11:27 p.m.

    SDSU is not a good offensive club. They are a great defensive club and offensive rebounders.

    BYU will DOMINATE SDSU if they limit turnovers and hit 40% of there three point shots.

  • SammyB Provo, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 11:23 p.m.

    I wish I could suggest to Jimmer to lower his dribble when he drives the middle or splits defenders. A low dribble, using the body to cover the ball will cut his turnovers big time. I agree with some of you that he is forcing things a bit. I didn't notice that until he became a cult phenomena after the SDSU game. I think the pressure is getting to him.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Feb. 23, 2011 11:09 p.m.

    Gutsy performance by the Cougars and a quality win. CSU is a terrific team with talented players.

  • PerfectCougar Payson, UTAH
    Feb. 23, 2011 10:57 p.m.

    Roger's missed his first few shots and was then limited in his minutes.

    This was a mistake.

    Repeat, this was a mistake.

    Roger's is a shooter and shooters have to keep shooting. Can't do that from the bench.

    We should stick with him.

  • stokethefire The Planet, Earth
    Feb. 23, 2011 10:43 p.m.

    I noticed Jimmer pass the ball and then the ball would be passed again for an assist on a made basket. It is the team that is winning these games, and BYU's depth will show up and outlast the Aztecs on Saturday. Jimmer's turnovers were outright muggings that were not called by the three blind mice.

  • stokethefire The Planet, Earth
    Feb. 23, 2011 10:30 p.m.

    My favorite shot of the night was the trey Jimmer knocked down from about five feet beyond the arc. 34 points while getting banged around all over the court and the big man Davies nailing his free throws. Gotta feel good about the Cougars chances in SD on Sat.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 10:20 p.m.

    I think Jimmer tried a little too hard tonight with the 3's but I can see a need to shoot out of a slump with SDSU coming up Saturday. I wasn't impressed with his drives as much as normal but he got alot of free throws out of it. He should have passed it out a few more times. Sloppy play let to too many turnovers. The rest of team did not shoot well but they stepped up in every other way. Great teams find a way to win. They are going to need a better shooting game to beat SDSU.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Feb. 23, 2011 10:10 p.m.

    If the Rams don't get a bid to the bid dance from a conference ranked as high as the MWC is ranked, it will be a disappointment. They are a talented team.

    BYU continues to find ways to win. Not only was Jimmer having an off night, but Rogers was cold as ice. But somehow we took care of business.

    The one thing I really like about this years team is the involvement. Last year the team would stand around in awe and watch Jimmer. This year everyone is moving, cutting, screening and being aggressive.

    I can't wait for Saturday.

  • IDC Boise, ID
    Feb. 23, 2011 10:09 p.m.

    Great hard fought game. That one was fun to watch. If Rogers and Jimmer shoot like that against SDSU though, SDSU is going to win.

    go cougars

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    Feb. 23, 2011 10:08 p.m.

    Over the past several games now, when he is pressing for his points he turns the ball over more often than not. With the way other teams are defending Jimmmer, he should be getting 15 assists a game.

  • CaliforniaCougar Lake Elsinore, CA
    Feb. 23, 2011 9:27 p.m.

    34 points and we are complaining??

    Jimmer is getting so many shots because the offense runs like he is an option QB. He starts up high as a threat for the bomb. If that's not available, he drives. If there is a lane, he takes it to the goal. If not, he dishes. Personally, I like that he takes many shots to the hoop. He's putting a lot of pressure on the defense drawing lots of fouls. Add to the fact that he's a 90 free throw shooter, he's a difficult weapon to stop.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 9:22 p.m.

    Jimmer gets hammered pretty much EVERY time he drives the lane. If the refs called every foul players committed against Jimmer, Fredette would shout 30 free throws a night.

    It's funny how a little bump against just about any other player on the court will be called every time, but Jimmer can be knocked to the floor with the refs swallowing their whistles half the time.

    I guess consistency is way too much to expect from MWC officials.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Feb. 23, 2011 9:10 p.m.

    How many games have the cougars played this year, where Jimmer wasn't the top scorer on the floor?

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    Feb. 23, 2011 9:09 p.m.

    I was listening online, and gWrubell mentioned that at the beginning of the 2nd half, it looked like Coach Rose was taking the refs to task about how they continue to not call fouls. It seemed to help. But I'm positive that in San Diego on Saturday, with the current jewel and darling of the MWC playing the team on the way out the door who the conference poobahs view as the villian, the MWC refs will be more one-sided than ever.

    I think Rose ought to consider & plan a scenario where he climbs on them as soon as the bias begins to be obvious, and with enough vehemence that he risks getting ejected. It would be very risky, but nothing less may be enough. It would fire up the team, hopefully serve to shame the shameless, and may put them on notice for the remainder of the season and the tournament. With the assistant coaches on board, Rice and company can keep the team on track with Rose in the locker room.

  • CG Orem, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 9:08 p.m.

    Jimmer rarily gets an uncontested 3-point shot anymore, so it's important when he drives and kicks it out to a wide open teammate, that Jimmer's teammates bury those open 3's. That will take a lot of pressure off of Jimmer who is such a competitor that he's pressing a little too much lately.

    Still, it was another gutsy effort by Jimmer, a stellar performance by Brandon, and another great all-around game by Jackson.

    The Cougars will have to have their best game of the season to pull off the upset at SDSU!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Feb. 23, 2011 9:08 p.m.

    I thought for the most part the refs did a good job tonite. CSU played very well and I was happy to see so many BYU fans shaking Tim Miles hand before the game. Good sportsmanship!

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 8:56 p.m.

    The Rams played hard and gave the Cougars their best effort, but Jimmer and Brandon played great. Brandon, another double-double, and Jimmer, 30+ points on an off-shooting night.

    Jimmer is averaging 27.4 and only need 169 points to break Danny Ainge's all-time BYU scoring mark. At his current pace, Jimmer will break Ainge's record in 7 games, or the first game of the NCAA tournament if BYU plays in the final of the MWC tourney.

    Now we can turn our attention to the next biggest game in the history of the MWC, the #7 BYU at #4 SDSU rematch.

  • SLCWatch Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 8:54 p.m.

    I would suggest Fredette not go down any dark alleys at this time. He is getting mugged on every corner as it is. I don't know where his three point shot went either, maybe one of the muggers took it.
    He is playing out of control now since he is being treated differently and he is playing outside the style he set in the first half of the season. He does better in the away games. Hope he puts it together for San Diego State. If not I hope San Diego ignores the rest of the Cougars and the Y will win it.
    An enjoyable game nonetheless watching the team effort. Jackson Emery is the hidden wonder of this team. His quickness is phenomenal.

    On to San Diego. Go Cougars

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 8:48 p.m.

    Bring on SDSU! Too many turnovers tonite so lets hope that won't happen Saturday. Jimmer looked good to go.

    Go Cougars!

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 8:46 p.m.

    Congratulations Cougars on another great win!

  • AribaD Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 8:45 p.m.

    BYU fans, please ignore Ute trolls hedgie and chrissy. Just don't respond to them. They are only here to rises out of BYU fans. Don't feed them.

    That said: Hard fought tough game. Sometimes I think Jimmer tries to do a little too much. But, many times his shots don't go in because he get hammered. At least tonight many of the fouls were called and made the free throws.

    Bring on the Aztecs. Should be epic. Go Cougars.