House panel approves repeal of in-state college tuition for illegal immigrants

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  • FredEx Salt Lake, Ut
    Feb. 22, 2011 3:37 p.m.

    Dumb and Dumber. The state is going to send a fixed amount of cash to a university (through the Regents). The amount is the same whether the university has 15,000 students or 15,030 students. The marginal costs are so minuscule, it's not worth discussing. So, if you have 30 extra students willing to pay the university $5,000 in tuition, why not let them? Is it better to accept nothing than to accept $150,000? Oh, and heaven forbid we have more educated people in our state, regardless of their immigration status.

    And the line about having to commit identity theft is complete crap.

  • D. Jeremy Spring, TX
    Feb. 21, 2011 1:34 p.m.

    Christy said: "They aren't 'illegal aliens', they are our fellow human beings.... Stop all the hate. It's counter-productive."

    Where is the hate? Is it hate because they disagree with your opinion? In the purest sense of the term, these people are illegal aliens, just as much as you would be if you were living in another country without the country's authirization. You seem to have a disconnect in civil discourse there.

    Just because people want the law enforced doesn't mean they are "haters." If I criticize the President, that doesn't automatically make me a racist - at least not with rational-thinking individuals.

    Since the LDS Church does not allow unworthy individuals to enter its temples, should the Church be labelled as a hater? Certainly not! Anyone can enter if they follow the rules.

  • D. Jeremy Spring, TX
    Feb. 21, 2011 12:10 p.m.

    This is by far a "sad" situation. I went to BYU and paid out of state tuition. I wasn't coddled with a minority scholarship or any scholarship for that matter (beyond the tithing-tution reduction). I worked each summer in construction to pay for my tuition out of pocket. I suggest Reyna and the rest of his friends do the same.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Feb. 20, 2011 2:35 p.m.

    So we will not collect taxes from them, too, right? No income, sales, use, etc. taxes.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Feb. 20, 2011 1:59 p.m.

    TexasMom | 9:06 p.m. Feb. 18, 2011
    Flower Mound, TX

    Justice says make them follow the laws of the land like everyone else. We can't pick and choose which laws should be enforced and still have an orderly society.

    The "million dollar question" is how do you balance mercy and justice in this situation? Is it even possible or can it only be one way or the other? I pray somebody out there has the wisdom to find that balance and make things "right".

    "I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him... Will it restore him to a control over his own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to swaraj (freedom) for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

    Gandhi wrote this note just before his death in January 1948

  • Atlas Colorado Springs, CO
    Feb. 20, 2011 12:52 p.m.

    A legal resident from another state in the United States pays more than an illegal. Makes no sense!

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Feb. 20, 2011 9:16 a.m.

    It's interesting reading these comments. People say it will ruin their lives, others point out to them that they still can attend school. But will have to pay what legal foreign students on visas pay.

    Others say there is no way they can get legal, and others keep pointing out that they can, by returning home before their 18 1/2 birthday, and wait for residency or a student visa (they are expedited, moved to the front of the list).

    It's been the same old arguments for years by those who support illegal immigrants breaking our laws. Rationalization does not make them innocent.

    One time we need to say no and mean it. Otherwise it will be yes until we lose our country.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    Feb. 19, 2011 11:32 p.m.

    @Janet, your wrong. A child(18 year old adult) can go back and return on a student visa or apply for residency.

    Saying there is no way is incorrect and misleading. Once they receive a masters degree they are eligible for a special work visa that leads to citizenship.

    This does not take away the right to attend school, it only making things equal between illegal immigrants and those who come back legally on legal visas.

    We must make things equal for all people who want to come here from around the world. The only way to do that is by enforcing the laws.

  • Grampa R South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 9:10 p.m.

    How come ICE or other law enforcement was not on the seen picking up these confessed illegals?

  • pharmacist South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 8:47 p.m.

    I would like to reply to Reyna, the student who said she wanted to repay for all we had given her. No we have NOT given you ANYTHING. You, your family, and the others here ILLEGALLY, have stolen it all from us.

  • Christy Beaverton, OR
    Feb. 19, 2011 5:28 p.m.

    Casca - you speak of our fellow human beings as if they were cockroaches.

    What's that saying? Pride cometh before the fall?

  • Casca Orleans, IN
    Feb. 19, 2011 4:54 p.m.

    By demanding immigration policing laws Utah has saved itself from further bombardment of economic illegal aliens. By the hundreds and thousands they will leave as they did in the Great State of Arizona, where these people had depleted of public entitlements. Now they have diverting their attention to Colorado plus other pliable State welfare cash to pillage Look to the Sanctuary State of California that is still suffering from a $24 Billion dollar treasury loss, that has is still being sacked by illegal alien settlement.. Taxpayer can investigate truthful illegal alien welfare costs, population statistics and your chance to fax for free the leadership in Washington at NumbersUSA

  • Candidate Jackson Sandy, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 1:20 p.m.

    Wish n' wish we could find a way to make this work for the immigrant. Further oppressing the oppressed, I hope, is not what we choose to do. If we have a class of people coming here wanting to work and wanting to be educated, those are good things. Instead of finding ways to stand in their way, saying they lack the paperwork, by all means, let's look for ways to make it happen. If all of our society were so inclined, we'd be a better off. Let's not seek for ways to punish such a people. A poor class of people wanting to work? Let's not seek to cast them out from among us. -- John Jackson

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Feb. 19, 2011 12:25 p.m.

    @ Janet,

    Are you suggesting that people cannot succeed and become educated in other countries? I strongly disagree.

    Also, what do you think happens to foreign countries as the number of good, hard-working citizens decreases and the proportion of criminals in society increases (I assume that you support the deportation of illegal immigrant who have committed additional, crimes to their country of origin)? Reason would dictate that poverty rates increases for those abroad in such a case. We should not turn a blind eye to the effects that our choices have on those abroad.

    An educator who focuses on helping only a few students in the class to learn would be considered a failure by most standards. Choosing to help those who can afford to pay human smugglers to sneak them into the U.S. while leaving their struggling countrymen to deteriorating conditions is no different. In each case, helping the few at the expense of the many makes little sense.

  • katy salt lake city, ut
    Feb. 19, 2011 12:23 p.m.

    Hey Utah Blue Devil - When our family immigrated to the USA, we had to have a sponsor family in the US to take on that responsibility. They agreed to provide housing, food and any other expenses entailed until we found jobs. My dad owned a furniture store in Germany - he was happy to help provide for his family by working as a dishwasher at Bratton's. I was 14 years old and found a job washing dishes. It took us 3 years to reimburse our sponsor, but then we agreed to sponsor another family that was trying to immigrate to the US.
    We were not able to afford travel costs for our entire family, so 2 or us came with our parents and the older two came later. No gov involvement.

    And speaking of how cruel we are to divide illegal families when a parent has to return to their own country and leave their families behind. It's so not true - that was one of the risks they took when they decided to come illegally to America. And most important, the family members do not have to stay behind-they can return to their country WITH their parents.

  • Janet Ontario, OR
    Feb. 19, 2011 11:57 a.m.

    Note to self: Do not post when exhausted. I meant "discouragement leads to desperation." See children? This is why we proofread *before* we post.

  • Janet Ontario, OR
    Feb. 19, 2011 11:54 a.m.

    @Rebel-Aggie: Right on! As an educator, I know that people have to be able to see a way out before they will put forth great effort. "You can't succeed. You don't deserve to succed." These messages just lead to despair, and despair leads to desperation, and desperation quickly leads to a breaking of the rules. It is short-sighted even for the most self-centered society not to help people out of the cycle of poverty and hopelessness that so often leads to crime. I am weary of explaining this, but for the child who was born in Mexico or Central America, in particular, and brought to the U.S. during his or her developmental years, going "back" would mean exile, not repatriation. Such a child has little-to-no way of "becoming legal" in the present system, little chance of getting more than a high-school education (regardless of academic performance), and almost no chance of becoming legally employed. If that doesn't lead to desperation, I don't know what does.

  • mecr Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 11:28 a.m.

    Unless you marry a citizen, chances are you won't get a legal status here: visa, work, don't even think about green card. It is unfortunate they came with no visa at all (crossing the border) or with tourist visas and not coming back to their countries. But they did it because in the past people not only ignore the problem but actually encourage it (remember giving ss#s to everybody when requesting a utah driver license?) Now, we are all living the consequences.

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 10:15 a.m.

    Thanks to all those legislators who voted to repeal this act. Even the original co-sponsor of the Dream Act is having second thoughts (as he nears re-election time) about it so it is time to repeal it. Doesn't make sense that a US citizen from Preston, Idaho who goes to Logan a few miles away has to pay out of state tuition while someone from Tapachula, Mexico pays in-state tuition. Tuition in Mexico is much cheaper than here so why not go to school there?

  • Kathy. Provo, Ut
    Feb. 19, 2011 10:08 a.m.

    Although I feel sorry for children when their parents commit crimes it does not rise to the extent that the crimes can be rewarded.
    When someone breaks into a house and steals things theyy should not be rewarded with keeping the things just because they "need" it. It encourages others to break into houses and the end game is chaos and no more property rights.
    It perplexes me that big picture is missed by some.

    There is no justice or mercy if chaos is permitted to be the law of the land.

  • calou84523 Ferron, Utah
    Feb. 19, 2011 9:51 a.m.

    Bottom line . . . . the bill passed it is now the law, debate over! This bill does not deny a college education to anyone all it says is that if you are not a legal Utah resident and are not in this country legally you pay out of state tuition a perfectly reasonable requirement. The fact that one was brought here by ones criminal parents without ones consent is an issue one needs to take up with ones criminal parents not with society at large.

  • peter Alpine, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    My parents immigrated, paid the price to become citizens, found work, learned the language, and have been responsible Americans ever since. I don't look at them as foreigners, but as full blooded Americans, adopted legally into this great country. I will be forever indebted to them for their sacrifice and due diligence in coming here legally. My parents actions and example gave me more than my citizenship, they taught me to quit making excuses, to quit looking for ways around the law, any law. Learn the law to live by it and thrive under its protective umbrella. This land is a land of opportunity, not entitlement.

  • Jonathan S Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    With each passing moment, technological advance and outsourcing renders another job category obsolete.

    Given this inexorable process, it is insane to import immigrants en masse, thereby importing brutal competition for the dwindling amount of jobs not yet devoured by automation or globalism.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Feb. 19, 2011 8:58 a.m.

    The greatest tragedy of all is how those who are unable to pay human smugglers are impacted when our nation turns a blind eye toward illegal immigration. Hunger, oppression, and suffering abroad only increase as our nation drains less fortunate nations of their "good, hard-working citizens." Poor nations will continue to get worse as long as rich nations allow illegal immigration to go unchecked.

    In this case, by helping the few, our nation is condemning the many.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 7:50 a.m.

    This is a disgrace to dismantle the bird feeder. Not!

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 7:45 a.m.

    Isn't it amusing when the gravy train stops running!
    Those who want others to pay for their well being cry like babies when the spicket is turned off. It is called redistribution of wealth and I am tired of paying. Many of those illegals come here just to suck of the public and it is finally catching up with them! Go legislature!

  • CJ Murray, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 7:39 a.m.

    This young man can go to college in another country, it may cost more but he can still find a way if he wants to. We can't tell out of state students who are citizens that they have to pay more but an illegal from Mexico doesn't. Bleeding heart liberals need to tackle that one instead of crying about illegals all the time. Wait until it is your kid who pays up while an illegal takes a spot for half price.

  • Phill Provo, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 6:50 a.m.

    If Elder Holland came out in support for Illegal Immigrants to be able to pay in-state-tuition, opens up my mind and thoughts of where I should stand on this issue.

    Feb. 18, 2011 11:08 p.m.

    This law encouraged illegal activity. A child brought here illegally has 180 days after his/her 18th birthday to return home and come back on a student visa.

    This would cost him/her double, since they would return as a foreign student and have to pay out of state tuition. Giving in state tuition encourages people to stay illegally, and get tuition at a taxpayer subsided discount.

  • GoodGuyGary Houston, TX
    Feb. 18, 2011 9:57 p.m.

    Many many people tried to make their American Dream legally. Therefore, they work hard, pay out -of-state-tuition, and work even harder try to land a job, with a legal H visa. Then they have to wait, work even harder, pay tax, to gain their green card. Then they have to keep waiting, fulfill all the citizen's duty, pay tax, obey the laws, and to become an American citizen. That is the American Dream, and that is the spirit of freedom. Trying to take a short cut by committing illegal activities is not the spirit of American dream.

  • usu Provo, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 9:50 p.m.

    He is from Argentina!! for all those that don't know that Argentina doesn't belong to Mexico.

    "is just a matter of waiting. Sooner or later they will be arrested for a small infraction and sent back to Mexico." said Tom_e.

    hardware | 10:54 a.m. Feb. 18, 2011
    Erda, Ut wrote: "When I hear this I put the shoe on the other foot. Mexico would never let us go to school free....CASE CLOSED." hahaha

  • Christy Beaverton, OR
    Feb. 18, 2011 9:13 p.m.

    @Heidi71 - you are obviously disconnected with what is being taught today in schools. We do not teach kids to revere Al Gore. We teach them the basics and way beyond, as well, we place huge importance on being safe, respectful, and responsible in their behavior. We want our kids to grow up to be great citizens!

    @Belching Cow - 'illegal aliens' cannot vote. They cannot work here legally, they cannot contribute to our society by paying income taxes, and they surely cannot vote. I don't understand people like you continuing to promote this idea.

    Look again at that picture of Daniel Reyna. He doesn't look much different than my own son who grew up here - through no 'legal' thing he, nor I, ever did, but rather through some sweet serendipity. Both boys went to school, learned how to read, learned how to count, discovered what they were interested in. And the both of them want nothing more than to go to college and come out the other side as productive citizens. They want to go out into the world and contribute.

    "Get in line", just falls flat.

    Feb. 18, 2011 9:08 p.m.

    This is real immigration reform. You do not encourage illegal activity.

  • TexasMom Flower Mound, TX
    Feb. 18, 2011 9:06 p.m.

    Mercy says give them citizenship and all its benefits. It's not the children's fault and worse, they know nothing but living here and it would be cruel to send them back to their "mother" country where they know nobody and may not even speak the language. Plus, many may very well become productive members of the society. Compassion is a nobel trait.

    Justice says make them follow the laws of the land like everyone else. We can't pick and choose which laws should be enforced and still have an orderly society. Many "legal" children in the US are also at a disadvantage due soley to choices of their parents. Why should "illegals" get special considerations? Plus, giving special treatment to "illegals" only encourages more illegal immigration.

    The "million dollar question" is how do you balance mercy and justice in this situation? Is it even possible or can it only be one way or the other? I pray somebody out there has the wisdom to find that balance and make things "right".

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 8:46 p.m.

    @Heidi71, you wrote: "I can't think of anyone who was born in the U.S. who would illegally enter another country and expect entitlement for themselves or their children."

    Of course not. That's because people born in the U.S. have citizenship in the land of boundless opportunity. By accident of birth, people born in the US get to live in comfortable homes with electricity, running water, refrigerators, telephones, and other conveniences we're accustomed to think of as necessities. Manage to be born in the United States and you can pretty much count on a minimum of a 12th grade education (in comparison, if you're born in Mexico, statistics say you'll top out in 8th grade; if you're born in Guatemala, you aren't likely to complete 4th grade).

    Of course you wouldn't trade your standard of living for theirs. But given the disparity, surely you can understand why someone might go to desperate measures so their children could have a life like yours. I'm not saying it's "right" (but then, who gets to make that determination, anyway?), but surely you can imagine where they're coming from.

  • Jack Aurora, CO
    Feb. 18, 2011 8:11 p.m.

    So, can someone championing the subsidy of these children please explain to me why the children of military members, ordered here for duty are not eligible for in-state tuition? They are here legally, by order of the US Government. The military parents buy homes, pay taxes on those homes, contribute to the community in many ways, yet they cannot get the in-state tuition because they aren't residents. So, why do you want to give that same in-state tuition to illegals who are not here legally and as such are not residents?

    Somebody? Anybody have that answer?

  • David B. Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 7:38 p.m.

    If they don't come here the right way they definately aren't entitled to my tax dollar.Thank you all in SLC on your hard work to get it repealed.

  • TwoCents Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 7:26 p.m.

    I think it's funny they listed the number of 'non-citizen' students. There are many who are non-citizens and legal... lol. Illegal does not equal non-citizen.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    Feb. 18, 2011 6:30 p.m.

    @Midwest Mom,

    The lamp is lit beside the golden door, not near the back fence or a window. The only way in which our immigration laws are broken is that they are not enforced. Just think through things:

    -The U.S. is incapable of supporting every person in the world who wants to come here, so limits must be placed on the number allowed to immigrate.

    -It is sensible for those who want to come here to be screened for criminal history, terrorist ties and deadly and contagious diseases, therefore our nation should not reward those who circumvent such a screening process, especially with benefits that not all citizens enjoy (like in-state tuition).

    -In any attempt to register those who are here, those who know they will not pass a background check will choose to remain in the shadows anyway.

  • CougarKeith Roy, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 6:10 p.m.

    Well Daniel Reyna and others like him, BECOME LEGAL CITIZENS OF THE U.S. or become "DOCUMENTED", it's pretty simple! It's not our fault your parents came here ilegally, IT'S THEIRS! They OWE YOU THE EDUCATION, Not the United States! It is very unfortunate, I don't disagree with that, but you can't expect to punish U.S. citizens for your parents breaking the law! It's pretty sad the state didn't escort you home to pick them up and send them back to Argentina! I feel badly, I really do, but there are LEGAL WAYS TO DO THINGS and NOT SO LEGAL ways to do things. Become a citizen or move to California, they will help you out!

  • Heidi71 Kearns, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 6:09 p.m.

    The Utah educational system and Reynas parents have both failed to teach him common sense. I can't think of anyone who was born in the U.S. who would illegally enter another country and expect entitlement for themselves or their children. Since his parents have been living here illegally for so many years, I wouldn't expect them to teach him not to expect entitlements for being illegal.

    Unfortunately, our public school system doesn't teach "good citizenship" anymore. They teach that "diversity" is good (diversity means to embrace illegal immigrants and learn their language) and that because of man-made global warming, we need to bankcrupt the coal and oil drilling industries. That nonsense passes as Social Studies nowadays.

    The Reynas and others like them need to get in line and do what needs to be done to be legal and stop expecting more ridiculous entitlements that only illegal aliens get from our tax funds.

  • bigv56 Cottonwood, CA
    Feb. 18, 2011 6:01 p.m.

    gee I was brought by my parents to another state, and my kids are from another state but to send my son to uvu it was 4000 00. vs 1300 for in state. These guys should pay out of country tuition, since they are here illegally. They won't even talk about why that is wrong.

  • Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 5:42 p.m.

    "I find the utter lack of compassion by the majority of these posters appalling."

    It isn't lack of compassion it is common sense. Why does a US citizen from another state have to pay higher tuition that someone who is here illegally? Where is your compassion for those who work hard to come here legally only to get shafted by those coming in the back door? Why are we rewarding criminal behavior? Yes our immigration laws need overhauled but that should not be an excuse to reward those breaking our laws. The real reason illegal aliens are getting hand outs is to buy votes. The bottom line is it's all about votes and power. Where is your compassion for US citizens scraping make ends meet while all their money is going to support entitlement programs exploited by illegals? Your the one who has no compassion.

  • Digbads South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 5:33 p.m.

    Oh my, I can't believe I wrote fill instead of feel. I think I must need more college.

  • Digbads South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 5:33 p.m.

    I've heard some impassioned please from Doug Wright and others regarding this subject. They fill that paying for college for these kids is the "right thing to do." That's great that you feel that way, folks, so start a foundation and pay for these kids to go to college. Get donations from like-minded people, and help these kids along.
    Why take my money, and the money from others to fund your pet projects. I'd rather spend my money to help my adult daughter get through college.

  • washcomom Beaverton, OR
    Feb. 18, 2011 5:28 p.m.

    I see where the boy is with his illegal standing, but seriously - if it were any other country, the country would also make the same decision and not reward the illegal status and give the money away.

    How about making it easier for the illegal immigrants to actually become citizens? Why not pave the road first, before traveling on it?

  • kemitc Nashville, TN
    Feb. 18, 2011 5:26 p.m.

    Well there's an easy way to keep BYU and the Church from allowing them to do this. One of the Articles of Faith tells us we have to obey the law of the land. That includes the LDS Church and BYU. If they are there illegally then both the Church and BYU have a responsibility by law to report them to ICE. Sorry LDS Church, but you can't have it both ways.

  • The Rabbit (in Spanish) Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 5:10 p.m.

    This is great. Now, stop educating them at any level and this tiny part of the system will be fixed! Want smaller class size? Deport an illegal!

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 4:49 p.m.

    Ohhhhh, I am so in the minority...

    If you are hard-core anti-immigrant, send back those that are problems. The hard-working, honest, amnisty-made citizens are harder on the "chollos", law breaking illegals than you.

    But kids that want to stay, to produce, that want to pay taxes on what they earn, that want to be, and are college educated... Come on.

    I have many friends from CA that were illegal, that are now teachers, principals, that are producing.

    Why deny those that want to learn, get a degree, and pay taxes the right to gaining citizenship?

    A knee-jerk decision, and a bad one.

    Now, dump on me, but I say give the ones that want to pay back to the community a chance....

  • D'Anconia Providence, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 4:44 p.m.

    No subsidies for illegal aliens and their children. That should be the consequence for those who ignore the laws of our land and enter illegally. We owe them nothing. They should just be grateful we don't go to the bother to deport them all.

  • Gosh-DUH Burlington, CT
    Feb. 18, 2011 4:41 p.m.

    I appreciate Daniel Reyna's situation and wonder about the K-12 educational process in Utah. How long has Daniel, his parents, teachers, and perhaps spiritual leaders known that he was here in the United States illegally, even if he was brought here when he was too young to remember? Someone should have worked with him and other students in his situation to start the process to become citizens of the United States. if that process has been ongoing, then I would support students like him to receive in-state tuition. Does anyone know at what age a child or teen can begin the citizenship process?

  • Christy Beaverton, OR
    Feb. 18, 2011 4:38 p.m.

    Thank you, Midwest Mom. I find the utter lack of compassion by the majority of these posters appalling.

    Our immigration laws are broken and need fixing. We need to start with common sense and compassion because most of our fellow human beings streaming in from the south are good, hardworking people.

    Someone said, "well, wooopdeedoo!" that all they pay is sales tax. So why don't we fix that by creating a pathway to citizenship, by allowing them to work legally and actually pay taxes!

    But we can't do that, right? That just makes too much sense.

    And DO NOT reply to me by comparing them with bank robbers and murderers. Were YOUR ancestors who came to this country thieves and killers?

  • ppoe Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 4:32 p.m.

    NO! NO! NO! Illegal, is illegal, is illegal. Whatever happened to obeying the laws of the land? Maybe education would be better if we weren't spending our money on illegals.

    Feb. 18, 2011 4:27 p.m.

    It's sad to see so many hate-filled comments aimed against a powerless group of children who know no other home than this. Such closed-minded hatred is hard to witness.
    Do we really think that denying a break to 643 students is going to solve the immigration problem? If anything, the state's schools are going to lose out because rather than pay the added tuition, the students will just drop out and the state won't even get in-state tuition. Lighten up. There are bigger problems to worry about.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    Feb. 18, 2011 4:23 p.m.

    Funny how the state has no problem coming up with funds to incarcerate. If there is no perk in being a good, hardworking kid, then why bother?

    I know, I know. Most of you had pioneer ancestors who busted their backsides to get you and yours comfy in Zion, but that was their sacrifice, not yours.

    These kids are the pioneers of today. It is UN-AMERICAN to turn them away, especially the ones who try so hard.

    Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

    But not in Utah? Not for those south of the border?

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 4:19 p.m.

    @NP, was the 2002 legislature also "the enemy within," traitors to our country? They passed the law in the first place.

    Regarding "CHOICES", why don't you explain to my Aleut friends from St. George Island, Alaska how their own bad choices led to their evacuation "for their own safety" during World War II to squalid internment camps where many died and many more got sick. Explain what bad choices led to American soldiers trashing their homes in their absence. Then explain how, in spite of the apparent threat to their safety, the US government brought several of the young men back in the middle of the war and forced them to do the backbreaking work of harvesting, butchering, and blubbering seals. Explain how it's the Aleuts' fault that the federal government governed (read: micromanaged) the Pribilof Islands and owned virtually everything on those islands up until the 1980s. Explain the bad choices that led to the whites punishing Aleuts for speaking their language, which is now moribund (which I'm sure is the Aleuts' fault). Yep, all that "oppression" is nothing more than the natural consequences of Aleuts' bad choices--lots of them, apparently.

    Yeah, right.

  • Thlete Draper, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 4:17 p.m.

    Sad situation for the children, but blame the parents and make THEM pay the extra tuition. That was their choice when they came here illegally. Giving them a break is not fair. Besides, as it was mentioned in the article, they still have to commit identity theft to get a job here with that degree, so how does that benefit Utah tax payers that are subsidizing them?

  • MoJules Florissant, MO
    Feb. 18, 2011 4:05 p.m.

    I truly feel bad for these young people, but as the saying goes, the sins of the parents on the heads of the children. I have made mistakes in my life and it affected my child. Trials help us to grow, I know that this is hard for these young people to go through this disappointment, but they can use this as a growing experience. I have a son in law, and four step sons that did not get any college and they make far more then their father was making when he retired having four years of college, but no degree.

  • nottyou Riverton, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 4:00 p.m.

    This is a no-brainer...pretty sad that it even had to be considered.

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 3:59 p.m.

    The immigration system is not broken. I've witnessed dozens of people have virtually no problems. We have student VISAs, work VISAs, temporary VISAs especially for migrant workers. We have what illegal immigrants are looking for--they just need to apply!

    Sure it takes awhile to process. It takes me several weeks/months to get a passport, just so I can VISIT other countries. We're not asking too much, here, to expect potential immigrants to register with our country. All legal citizens are registered!

    Today is a great first step to discourage illegal immigration. We are condoning criminal activity by extending taxpayer handouts through college.

  • Zencible Bluffdale, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 3:57 p.m.

    I hope that this does not pass. It doesn't make sense to punish the children of immigrants as they try to get an education to better themselves and their families. Chances are that their children will also go to college as well.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 18, 2011 3:55 p.m.

    The right thing to do would be to create a path to citizenship for these kids as for many of them this is the only home they have known. But so long as we stay polarized on this issue, there won't be a reasonable answer.

    The last thing we need to do if flush out all the ones here that are trying to gain a peace of the American dream and leave behind only those who have disregard for the law. Create a way for those who are willing to go through the process. But as it stands now, the cost for citizenship is about $14,000 - and don't go off telling me your great grandparents had to come up with that large sum of money to become citizens - because they didn't.

    We need reasonable solutions - not this petty pandering type of legislation.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 3:54 p.m.

    Illegal is illegal. I suppose when drugs come over the border, they're not illegal drugs, but, prescriptions for suffering human beings. That tends to be the logic here.

    It's not young girls that are being forced into prostitution against their will. These are human beings that are doing jobs americans don't want.

    It's not illegal immigrants, they're people who want a better life picking vegetables, living in shanty towns on the farm, being paid under the table.

    They contribute to our tax base very heavily! they're not paying property taxes, California doesn't have a food tax, if they get an illegal car without insurance to drive then they'll pay tax on gas, they don't have to pay for healthcare we provide it free of charge, and they get a tax return for stealing a ssn and sending in their "taxes" which is below the standard earnings and with the child tax deduction they make another 2-3 k thanks to re-distribution of wealth.

    But they deserve it more than those that actually pay taxes and work.

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 3:47 p.m.

    So instead of thanking Utah citizens for subsidizing their K-12 education, the shadow people want MORE.

  • TexasAg Humble, TX
    Feb. 18, 2011 3:36 p.m.

    I came to USU from out of the country. Guess what I had to do? They required me to get a student visa. Once I had a student visa, I was able to attend. But I wasn't a resident of Utah. So, I had to pay out of state tuition. I really don't get why illegal immigrants seem to get more rights than those people that are trying to do the right thing.
    If they think they can't pay for the tuition, then get a job. There are plenty of students, that work while they go to school and find ways. Why do people always want the easy way out of their problems and get baby'd so much?
    And illegal is still illegal. Get a student visa first. It's not that difficult.

  • Cato the Elder Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 18, 2011 3:35 p.m.

    Way to go Rep. Wimmer! You have proved that you don't need to be educated to be a well-rounded citizen.

  • Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 3:29 p.m.

    "They aren't 'illegal aliens', they are our fellow human beings. "

    They are 'illegal aliens' and that is a fact. Yes they are our fellow human beings but the are also 'illegal aliens'. They have broken our laws.

    "They purchase things like clothing, furniture, and food, so they do pay taxes."

    Well wooopdeeeedoooo. They extract a lot more money that they put in.

    "Stop all the hate. It's counter-productive."

    Maybe you should start with yourself. I've seen quite a few hateful comments that you have posted. Just the other day you spouted off calling members of the predominant Utah religion 'hypocrites'. I found that very hurtful. We are not hypocrites but your fellow human beings.

  • Considering Stockton, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 3:26 p.m.

    On the other hand: "your European ancestors made no attempt to learn the language and culture of the Americas"

    I will not attempt to condone what was done to the American Indians.

    But I will learn from history.

    And it is clear that when two incompatible cultures collide, one of them is going to lose. And the losers tend not to fair very well at the hands of the winners.

    Maybe you think the latino culture currently growing in this nation is inherently more benevolent than was/is the European culture of 300 years ago. But I won't bet my or my children's future on it.

    I will not sign myself or my posterity up to be the losers in the next great cultural war. I'd prefer to avoid that war. US culture north of the river, latin culture south. Good fences and all that.

    If you come here, assimilate. If you won't want to assimilate, don't emigrate.

    Tragic that parents would put their kids in such a spot. But we simply cannot continue to provide incentives for coming and staying here illegally. It isn't 1492 anymore. Deal with reality.

  • suchcriminals Provo, Utah
    Feb. 18, 2011 2:43 p.m.

    Shame on Utah.

  • Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 2:36 p.m.

    It just blows my mind this is even being discussed. Give illegal aliens in state tuition when legal US citizens can't even get this deal? Really!?!? Are there people dumb enough to believe this is ok?

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 2:36 p.m.

    Liberal Ted writes, "The LDS church encourages people to learn the culture and language of the country they reside in. Something illegals refuse to do here."

    Daniel Reyna would be surprised to get that little news flash. This whole time he thought he was speaking perfect American English and integrating into American culture.

    Here's one more news flash: your European ancestors made no attempt to learn the language and culture of the Americas. Instead, they herded off the natives like cattle. But I'm sure that's okay because you're special and Daniel Reyna isn't.

  • Mr. Bean SLC, Utah
    Feb. 18, 2011 2:35 p.m.

    @Eliot 12:50 p.m.: "I am wondering how you can pay into social security without a social security number. If an illegal alien has a social security number it must belong to someone else."

    There's alotta children out there racking up allota SS credits unbeknownst to them. They won't know about it until they ask the SS Administration for a printout of their SS wages or get ready to retire and find they've put in 80 to 90 years of work.

    If there are any illegals out there who needs a SS number give me a jingle. I need a few more quarters to get my minimum forty quarters to qualify for benefits when I reach retirement age.


    @Halach Huinic 11:41 a.m.: "Restricting educational opportunities for anyone under any circumstance strikes at the heart of community life."

    Not everyone needs to go to college... especially illegals. If they want to go to college let them return to their country of origin and attend colleges there. I'm sure there are colleges in other countries. And tuition is more likely much cheaper.

  • Christy Beaverton, OR
    Feb. 18, 2011 2:33 p.m.

    A few things...

    They aren't 'illegal aliens', they are our fellow human beings.

    They purchase things like clothing, furniture, and food, so they do pay taxes.

    They're here. They're not leaving. Their children are innocent and want only to better themselves. And when they do, it benefits us all.

    Stop all the hate. It's counter-productive.

  • Miss Piggie SLC, Utah
    Feb. 18, 2011 2:09 p.m.

    @Madden: "US immigration is broken."

    It's only broken to those who are here illegally and want amnesty to stay. We have a perfectly good and reasonable immigration system for those who do it right. We take in approximately 1 million immigrants per year, legally.

    And, by the way if the system is broken it is because we take too many immigrants in. We have no work for them. We are already spending billions on unemployment benefits paid out to non working Americans.


    @Rebel-Aggie: "So instead of helping young people to exit the cycle of crime and poverty, we are going to keep them out of our colleges..."

    What?? Are you joking?? We don't need criminals in our colleges. There are plenty of American citizens who would like to go to college and can't. They don't need more competition from foreigners. They are already competing for Americans' jobs.


    @Considering: "We cannot afford to encourage the next two generations of law breakers to enter or remain in our nation illegally by refusing to make the hard choices now."

    You got that right. And the only way to discourage illegal immigration is to get tough.

  • mecr Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 2:02 p.m.

    As a member of the church and alumni, I will continue to pay tithing regardless the Church Educational System allows illegals to get a college education. These are kids who were brought here by their parents. I think it's not ethical to deny them that opportunity neither I think that our Savior would approve it. Parents are another matter, but the kids can't be punish especially if they are doing their part to keep themselves out of trouble and outstanding citizens.

  • mecr Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 1:57 p.m.

    I used to work for a big restaurant chain here in Utah as a payroll clerk. Everybody had a ssn, everybody paid social security and taxes (most of them M-5 to M-7). When January came, what a surprise to see a box full of W2s. I asked about it and I was told those were returned W2s. Now, when reporting to the Social Security, the company sends the list of "employees" with their "SSn" and the amount to transfer. Social Security gets the list, the money and everybody happy. They don't check the ssn, they just get the money no questions asked. Same happens with IRS. So, when somebody says illegals keep SS afloat, that is not far from the truth.

    And just if you are wondering, I was terminated after asking too much about those W2s. But I do know for sure, the money did go to SS.

  • Alfred SLC, Utah
    Feb. 18, 2011 1:48 p.m.

    "If HB191 were to pass, my being able to go to college would be nearly impossible.."

    Why on earth do you think you need to go to college? There are beds to make and fruit to pick. Did you forget that illegals are here to do the work that American workers won't do? That's what we are told, anyway... by George Bush no less.

    We have 15 million unemployed Americans with valid citizenship papers. We don't need you to go to college or even take a job. My advise to you is to go to your country of origin, get some citizenship papers, fill the papers out, and get in line.

  • legalimmigrant Springville, Utah
    Feb. 18, 2011 1:23 p.m.

    Poqui, as an international student who attended BYU, I can tell you with 100% certainty that BYU does not allow international students to attend BYU without a student visa. Applicants have to disclose whether they are US citizens, permanent residents or international students. Illegals who attend BYU lie about their immigrant status!!

  • Right or Wrong Happy Valley, Utah
    Feb. 18, 2011 1:18 p.m.

    @ "On the other hand" -

    How can Illegals pay taxes if the are not employed?

    How do they get jobs?

    Law after law is broken by those coming here illegally!

    All problems are solved by having people immigrate legally, but every time and every person that crosses a border without obeying the law adds 10 fold to the problems of this country.

    If we are to help our brothers and sisters we must be strong and on solid ground ourselves. Creating a weak America by allowing ILLEGAL immigration is a never ending, sad, problem.

    I choose a strong America, NO to any benefit for ILLEGALS.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 1:09 p.m.

    Many thanks to the legislators' who are stepping up to the plate and actually TRYING to deal with the illegal trespassing problem.

    Revoking "driving privilage" cards is another good step that could be taken.

    Illegal immigrants need to return to their homeland and try to improve THEIR OWN country instead of continually depleting the resources of Utah and the rest of the nation.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:51 p.m.

    I guess if my parents steal a Porsche off the lot at Strong's and give it to me in three years and I didn't know they stole it?....I should be able to keep that car according to the LIBS!

  • Eliot Santaquin, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:50 p.m.

    "In fact, illegal immigrants are credited with keeping social security afloat, since so many of them pay in and none of them will ever reap any of the program's benefits."

    I am wondering how you can pay into social security without a social security number. If an illegal alien has a social security number it must belong to someone else. If payments to social security are made with that number aren't they credited to the person to whom the number rightfully belongs? How then does payment by the illegal worker keep social security afloat? Furthermore, this example serves as strong support for taking care of the illegal problem because not only are legal residents taken advantage of, but the illegals are exploited as well. I am all for legislation that discourages illegal behavior.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:45 p.m.

    Poqui | 11:31 a.m. Feb. 18, 2011
    Murray, UT

    What makes you think the LDS church has endorsed for illegals to come here illegaly? They have never said that. They just asked that whatever happens that it is done compasionately.

    So let's lovingly put these people on buses and ship them back.

    The LDS church also states that people should follow the laws of the land. Which illegals violate as soon as they crossed the border, and now refuse to leave.

    The LDS church encourages people to learn the culture and language of the country they reside in. Something illegals refuse to do here.

    So, trying to pull the 'LDS card' to make people feel sorry for you isn't going to work.

    If you go to byu you have to sign their honor code. I'm sure it states that you'll live the standards and teaching of the church. If you're here illegaly then you have violated your honor code.

    Why is it that illegals have a hard time understanding honesty, integrity, respect?

    When I went to foreign countries I learned their language and respected their law & culture. Just asking for the same here.

  • Rebel-Aggie Provo, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:43 p.m.

    So instead of helping young people to exit the cycle of crime and poverty, we are going to keep them out of our colleges and on our streets, ensuring that they and their kids join gangs and commit crimes.

    Great job legislature.

  • Anon 64 Oahu, HI
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:42 p.m.

    In the case of Reyna and others like him, who do not even remember coming here. It they are good citizens in General. You might have to consider Green Card Status.

    Mostly because these folks had no idea what was going on, and may never had been told.

    Being mostly about the kids, you also have to be fair. The lawv is the law but not without common sence.

    I am still for deporting the parents.

  • awsomeron1 Oahu, HI
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:32 p.m.

    This is a very simple problem. They are Illegal and do not belong here. They should Not be accepted by any school of any learning.

    I am shocked that the Vote was 10-5, it should have been 15-0.

    If one of them comes to register for school, the person doing the paper work should excuse themselfs and call the police and have them arrested.

    If they stole ID then they committed a crime and you can deport them as Crimanals.

    If found out they should lose all credits and Graduation. In short it does not count.

    I also think that if the School in question knows about it they should be fined.

    Unless of course you have a 100mph fastball and pinpoint control.

    The idea of even setting a charge for illegals is total dumb and needs to be against the Law.

    If they Merry an American an investigation need to be done on the True Status of the the Marriage.

    The only was you can prove a Marriage is not a shame is to produce a child and prove bloodline.

    A lot of guys and girls are promised hope and nothing more. This also breaks laws.

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:31 p.m.

    As a high school educator let me toss this one in. If our state legislature truly wanted to make a stand against the federal government they would pass a law prohibiting the enrollment of any student at the K-12 level who could not show proof of US citizenship thru birth. Let's see how long that one would stand up in court. Instead they propose laws that do nothing more than pander to their own reelection interests that play to unfounded fear.

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:22 p.m.

    I really think our State has bigger education problems then 648 undocumented students receiving in-state tuition.

  • Considering Stockton, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:17 p.m.

    Let us remember that NOBODY in the legislature and virtually nobody else is calling for anything but compassion. Nobody is suggesting draconian punishment for violating our immigration laws: we are NOT talking about locking up people for long terms, forced hard labor, or even future disqualification to enter the nation legally. All we want is for the current lawbreaking to end.

    Think of it this way, when you get stopped for speeding and the officer gives you a warning and tells you slow down, do you think him harsh or non-compassionate for not letting you continue to speed? Of course not.

    There is no doubt that our own inaction on immigration since Reagan made the mistake of amnesty 30 years ago has contributed to the problem. But when you find yourself in a deep hole, you've got to stop digging.

    We cannot afford to encourage the next two generations of law breakers to enter or remain in our nation illegally by refusing to make the hard choices now.

    It would have been easier 30 or even 20 years ago. Yes, we messed up. We HAVE to fix it now by getting serious about enforcement.

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 12:01 p.m.

    @Liberal Ted and others, many illegal immigrants do pay taxes. In fact, illegal immigrants are credited with keeping social security afloat, since so many of them pay in and none of them will ever reap any of the program's benefits.

    @Lost in DC, when we prosecute embezzlers, nothing precludes us from helping their innocent family members.

  • Jazz Bass Man Wellsville, Utah
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:56 a.m.

    It's high time the Utah legislature started passing bills that will discourage illegals from coming here. Hopefully we will see more in the newar future, with Sandstrom's bill passing.

  • Bryan Syracuse, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:51 a.m.

    I'm glad this bill made it out of committee. There is no reason why tax payers should be paying for the education of illegal aliens. This only encourages the parents to come here illegally, and encourages the students to get jobs illegally when they finish college.

  • Halach Huinic Mapleton, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:41 a.m.

    Restricting educational opportunities for anyone under any circumstance strikes at the heart of community life. Somehow this heartless drive to root out all illegal immigrants at any cost has got to be reined in. Destroying a village to save it was wrong in Vietnam, and it is wrong in Utah.

  • hatuletoh Sugarhood, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:36 a.m.

    Wow, I never noticed that Rep. Wimmer was Pat Bagley's model for his recurring Utah Legislator characters. I thought those strange looking little cartoons were composites, but Mr. Bagley is clearly channelling Rep. Wimmer. I must have always been unfamiliar with the features of the representative to have never before noticed this uncanniness.

  • Poqui Murray, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:31 a.m.

    Wowzers..! Harsh responses to a plea for compassion. The LDS Church plea for compassion has sure fallen on deaf ears here in Utah.

    Their best option is to attend LDSBC and BYU that don't charge out of state tuition. Most of the illegals I know are planning on taking that route from now on. So I guess the LDS Church will come through and help the children of illegals by educating them. So, if you're Mormon, your tithing is helping educate the children of illegals. Thanks! Keep paying your tithing!

  • tom_e Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:29 a.m.

    A is just a matter of waiting. Sooner or later they will be arrested for a small infraction and sent back to Mexico.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:27 a.m.

    A good start to correct an injustice for the taxpaying citizens of Utah.

    The American born children of illegal parents are being hurt, but the blame is on their parents, not Utah taxpayers.

    The true beneficiaries of the "in state tuition" program have been the illegal parents, since parents almost always are the real payers for college anyway.

    Never reward bad or illegal acts.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:03 a.m.


    Their status as ILLEGAL aliens "condemns them to lesser jobs"

    But how can they have ANY lega job as illegals?

    And WE are not the ones doing any condemnation; it was their PARENTS who condemned them by their illagel act.

    Does the embezzler's family suffer because they have to pay restitution and go to prison for embezzling? yes, but that does not mean we should not prosecute embezzlers.

  • legalimmigrant Springville, Utah
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:02 a.m.

    Madden, the US immigration is not broken. What is broken is the enforcement of our immigration law.
    Cats, we already have a guest worker program. It is called the H visa.
    Poqui, could you explain why us taxpayers would have to pay for these babes' parents' short-sightedness?

  • We the People Sandy, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:00 a.m.

    Wimmer is correct; we should not subsidize illegal behavior.

  • hardware Erda, Ut
    Feb. 18, 2011 10:54 a.m.

    When I hear this I put the shoe on the other foot. Mexico would never let us go to school free....CASE CLOSED.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 10:48 a.m.

    Nothing short sighted here. The univeristy is subsidized through tax payer dollars. Illegals DO NOT pay taxes. Therefore they shouldn't benefit from the system. We should give first priority to people who sacrifice working two-three jobs to put their kids through college. Not for illegals who cross the border, work illegally, drive down wages, steal identities and do not contribute to the tax revenue of the state.

    What they need to do. Is to go home, and apply to come here legally. Then they can get grants, scholarships, in state tuition etc.

    Besides college will be cheaper in their home countries than in state tuition is here. That will be great for them and they'll speak their native language to them and they can fly their flag!!

    Nothing but ups on this bill!

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 10:44 a.m.

    This is a sad situation and I think we are all conflicted about it. But, it isn't fair for illegals to get instate tuition when American citizens from other states have to pay out-of-state tuition.

    These children are victims of the fact that their parents chose to bring them here illegally. It's really sad, but something has to be done to get this situation cleared up. We need to get a workable guest worker program that makes it possible for people to come here legally.

    In the meantime, it's not right for the taxpayers to subsidize this situation. I hope this will create more pressure to get our immigration problems resolved.

  • unaffiliated_person Saratoga Springs, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 10:44 a.m. one is condemned. They will be like the other thousands of out of state residents who attend school in Utah. Unless you think it would be good to have all out of state residents pay instate tuition and make us taxpayers subsidize anyone who comes here for school.

  • Viva la Migra American Fork, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 10:39 a.m.

    Good. I hope this gets fully repealed this year. When the State is struggling with a budget deficit and Universities are discussing enrollment caps, it doesn't make sense to spend millions to subsidize the tuition for illegal aliens who may not legally utilize that education to obtain work here.

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 10:29 a.m.

    This bill may have come out of committee but will not become law.

  • Poqui Murray, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    Once again condemning children who were brought here illegally as babes in arms to lesser jobs when they don't know any other culture than the one they were raised in. How short sighted!

  • Madden Herriman, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    And that is essentially the problem:
    "In order for them to work they have to commit identity theft."

    US immigration is broken. Giving in-state tuition is such a waste UNTIL they fix the rest of the system. And granting in-state tuition is certainly a nod to the wink-wink immigration enforcement we have.

    Too bad our Congress does not have the intestinal fortitude to find a way to get these immigrants here legally through some compromise. Instead they will continue to be either reviled by too many citizens or abused by too many businesses, immigrant right groups and crooks.