Sandstrom's immigration bill clears Utah House committee

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  • tiger1 New York, NY
    Feb. 14, 2011 2:21 p.m.

    Just my opinion on Feb 12th @ 11:31 pm
    I do not know about your ridiculous #s you project in savings. That must be a very low point of your selfsteem. And the same on all the similar comments in this blog. If you kick out a kid out of this country, he will come back unskilled and uneducated as an adult, only to collect welfare for the next 70 years of his life. Be careful on what you wish for.

  • facts_r_stubborn Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 4:38 p.m.

    We often hear that the federal government has done nothing in solving the problem of illegal immigration and this is the excuse used to support Utah bills like Sandstrom's. This gross over-simplification is repeated so often by the public, legislators and the media, it becomes the perception of truth, although the reality is something far different.

    While certainly Congress could do more, lets look at a few facts:

    The Utah legislature refuses to fund Sandstrom's enforcement bill. They have also done absolutely nothing to help fund existing training/enforcement programs like 287(g). So Utah has done nothing and even now are satisfied with message bills with no teeth or resources. Only Weber and Washington counties are participating in 287(g) which has been available since 1995.

    Since 2005, the federal government has doubled the budget for ICE enforcement to $7 billion per year, doubled the number of deportations, it has added an immigration court in Utah with two federal immigration judges. Last year alone Congress approved an extra $200 million for improved border enforcement, including, pilotless drones, 2000 additional national guard troops, and improved border barricades. Congress has increased funding for enforcement, Utah refuses.

  • facts_r_stubborn Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 4:22 p.m.

    The bill is an unfunded mandate to Utah counties and cities. If the citizens are willing to pay for beefed up enforcement why isn't the legislature willing to pay for it?

    The other problem with the bill is it is weaker and will be less effective than what is already available to state and local law enforcement participating in enforcing Federal immigration laws. This bill is really nothing more than political pandering to an ignorant electorate, who rightly wants the laws enforced but who doesn't know what the laws are. Not one blogger other than myself has addressed existing federal/state/local enforcement coordination programs such as Secure Communities and 287(g).

    Davidson County, Tennessee claims they saved millions of dollars and reduced crime by deporting illegal aliens under a 287(g) program in operation since April 2007. Thus far 8,000 illegal aliens that committed other crimes have been deported saving approximately $300,000 a week.

    As of 2009 ICE has trained more than 1,000 officers operating under 66 local agreements nationwide. Since January 2006, these 287(g)-trained officers are credited with identifying more than 120,000 individuals who are here illegally.

  • Norm Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 2:35 p.m.

    Look at the number of states that have been noted in the newspaper that have started similar action to address the illegal situation. Three just mentioned the last few days. This is a national problem and must be addressed by the Federal government. There lack of enforcing the current law has created the problem. This goes back clear to Regan and every President since then, The vote more important than our country and laws. I fully support Arizona and the effort to try. I send money to help the effort. We have a major negative impact on our way of life, education number one. Creating a divided nation with two languages and standards.
    They should improve verification to 100% and not hire illegal alliens just not from South America but from around the world. They are entering from Canada as well as Mexico. We have one language not dozens, we should have all required books and various forms in English not a dozen different languages. We spend millions across our nation to make sure illegals are well taken care of yet we talk about reducing health and other benefits to the American citzens. What is wrong, it is very plain.

  • Right or Wrong Happy Valley, Utah
    Feb. 12, 2011 1:55 p.m.

    "It uses the illusion of law enforcement to simply hunt down a group of people we imagine are ruining our society," he said. "This bill would create a false positive in the minds of citizens."

    Several point here.

    1) No where does the bill "hunt" down anyone.

    2) It is not imagination that illegal immigration is eroding our way of life. Education, healthcare, crime.....

    3)Nothing false is found in enforcing and upholding the law.

    The issue is not "immigration", it is "ILLEGAL" immigration that is the problem.

    My soapbox away with the driving privilege card! No reward for those that do not deserve a privilege.

  • Mary E Petty Sandy, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 1:15 p.m.

    Big Question: Who side would you be on if you had lived during the American Revolution? Beginning with the Boston Tea Party in 1773, would you have supported bad law and been a Tory/Loyalist, loyal to the British Crown during the ensuing War for Freedom in the American Colonies, or would you have broken bad law as a Sons of Liberty and actively fought as a Patriot to establish law that reflected Deity's Laws?

    And so it is with immigration, its bad law and legislative solutions. Whose side are you on? "Love one another", or "Off with their heads!"

  • brw1 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 12, 2011 12:54 p.m.

    @BWEB You said, "Further, you have allowed our elected officials to dangle the proverbial carrot in the faces of people who are POOR, desperate, deprived, scared, and in DIRE need of help."

    When and where was this? It has NEVER BEEN LEGAL for them to come here without authorization. Show me, please, any statement from our government encouraging them to come here illegally?

  • Carson Provo, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 12:41 p.m.

    I encourage everyone to find out who your state Senator is and call or email Him/Her and let them know that we want Rep. Sandstroms and Herrods bills to pass the senate. Please take a few minutes to help fix Illegal Immigration in this state.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    Feb. 12, 2011 11:58 a.m.

    Good analogy Brer Rabbit, amnesty just makes a bigger problem to dig ourselves out of. Progressive self deportation laws are the best, easiest and most civil way for all concerned.

    Amnesty is not being civil to the 100,000 citizens that need those jobs to feed their families.

    Right now the rest of the world wants to know why we let people steal their places in line.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 10:49 a.m.

    Watch Dog is exactly right. The Utah taxpayers would save about $453 million if the illegal aliens left Utah this year.

    I was at the hearing yesterday. From the Trib, "Rep. David Litvack, D-Salt Lake, said the law wouldn't push illegal immigrants out of Utah." The statement is reported correctly. Even if HB070 doesn't "push" illegal aliens out, it does pull in the welcome mat a little.

    If illegal aliens begin to realize that they are not welcome in Utah perhaps fewer of them will come and the costs to UT taxpayers will not continue to rise as it has over the last decade.

    It has taken over a generation to dig ourselves into this pit. It could take a decade or more to dig ourselves out, but that is only if we stop digging deeper. HB070 only slows Utah's rate of digging deeper, and more progress is needed.

    Life in the United States and the social benefits are not a world-wide entitlement. The toleration of a bad behavior only increases the bad behavior.

  • Watch Dog Provo, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 10:15 a.m.

    ", government and religious leaders that encourages federal solutions..."

    Sure they do! BECAUSE they are well aware that the Feds have no intention of enforcing ANY of these immigration laws.

    There is nothing in either AZ's or UT's law that IS NOT ALREADY in the federal law, therefore, all these challenges are going to go away.

    I got a kick out of the fiscal cost attached to this bill as well. It DID NOT count the savings should illegals leave our state. I am willing to bet that the $11 million would be made up within weeks just from what we pay to educate the kids of illegal aliens!

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 10:12 a.m.

    Hurrah! We are making progress in stopping this invasion. And the other article in the DMN says "Indiana and other states" are following our lead. Hopefully all 50 states will pass a similar bill and then the Feds will have to sue all 50....or they could just enforce the laws. Amnesty begets more amnesty, or as said earlier if you reward bad behavior you are going to get more of that behavior. Write Sandstrom and others supporting this bill and thank them for their efforts.

  • Yorkshire City, Ut
    Feb. 12, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    Lectori Salutem--the "bad behavior" I see from the illegals I know include:

    *taking English lessons offered at a local church

    *both parents working menial, low paying jobs to be able to afford food, a barely adequate vehicle, and overpriced apartments.

    *willingly serving others in their church.

    *keep themselves and yards clean, orderly

    *doing their very best to stay off of everyone's radar screens.

    They don't break laws,(except the ONE that INFURIATES you) Don't use public resources except the public school for their children, pay their own way, and don't require anything from anyone.

    In return, they are taken advantage of by their landlords, and their employers.

    I would WAY rather live next to the illegal aliens I know than many questionable "legal" people I have occasionally lived next to.

    I would WAY rather have a neighbor who is breaking the law of being in the US illegally, and who scrupulously obeys every other law (to stay under the notice of anyone) than the ones who ARE LEGAL citizens of this country who are breaking the laws of abusing wife and children, DUI, assault, financial fraud,and any others they don't mind breaking

  • Really??? Kearns, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 8:32 a.m.

    This makes me sad. What are we saying to the rest of the world? This will create more problems than actually solve the problems we already have. Here's a thought--let's start treating our neighbors as neighbors. How about we take care of our neighborhoods and be kind to each other? Let's help our neighbors learn English, improve their education, and become productive citizens.

    Let's stop acting like the intolerant, judgmental people we appear to be to the rest of the world.

  • tom_e Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 8:14 a.m.

    I think if everyone in the state that wants the immigrants to leave gave five dollars we would have more that enough money to support the bill.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 8:12 a.m.

    Here's my short list of corrections of the common myths quoted above:

    The ITN lets the undocumented pay taxes.

    Children are assets, not liabilities.

    Undocumented residents use government benefits less than natives

    Immigrant workers and their families create more jobs than they take, and the jobs they take are usually in sectors that don't compete with natives.

    Legal immigrants are not officially welcome. They are restricted and discouraged beyond the point of ridiculousness.

    Undocumented presence is a misdemeanor, not a felony.

  • danaslc Kearns, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 7:56 a.m.

    Hopefully with Sandstrom's bill, Herods'bill and Wimmer's bill, we can go out of this session with some real legislation that stops the middle class from paying taxes to take care of the illegal immigrant, living with a higher crime rates, cars on the roads that you know don't pass inspection and construction workers and our older children getting back to work.
    These bills are what we need. We don't need legislation passed because of Corporations and Church's telling the state that we need illegal's here and they can just pass the costs onto the middle class. Enough is Enough. Thank you Sandstrom. You are the sane one in this state.

  • open minded Lehi, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 7:37 a.m.

    So we're going to ignore the Utah Compact, now catching on in other states, and the $$ costs of a similar law in Arizona to pass this bill? Sounds like Sandstrom is trying to please his fellow GOP legislators instead of doing what's best for the people of Utah.

  • Red Smith American Fork, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 5:44 a.m.

    If a legal mother does not put child in a car seat, then she is stopped by the police.

    If a legal person does not buckle his seat belts, he is stopped by the police.

    If a legal does not fill our government forms (IRS), then he can be arrested.

    Why are illegals given a pass? Either enforce or repeal immigration laws.

    How is it illegals have more rights than legals?

  • My2Cents Kearns, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 4:35 a.m.

    CWEB, I feel sorry for you too. We americans did not invite illegals in to this state, we did not give them these jobs, we did not permit government to break our laws, they did that on their own, and that is soon to change with changes in government leadership and reinforcement of the federal laws at the state level.

    There is no illegal that is not a felon criminal so none of them are exempt from identification request by law enforcement, business, government workers or citizen of America. If law enforcement has a problem obeying and enforcing the law, then those individuals can look for a new job.

    We are proud to be americans and proud to serve our country and proud to help deport all the illegals. There is no need to even arrest an undocumented, just turn them around and point them back to the border.

    The so called coalition is an illegal organization of business and community leaders with one agenda, break the laws, therefore are terrorist to the cause of the United States of America.

  • Mary E Petty Sandy, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 3:06 a.m.

    Currently we have bad immigration law in America that has resulted in an intolerable situation in the various states including Utah that must deal with the consequences of this bad law. Rep. Sandstrom's solution of HB70 for those that are caught in the middle of all this, who want to come to America like our ancestors did in the days before the current bad law was passed, and better their lives, is "Off with their heads!

    Rather than making it possible for those who seek the Golden Lamp and the Door to Freedom and Opportunity of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for their families through such humanitarian law as SB 60, Utah once again forgets the teachings of "love thy neighbor as thy self and frankly forgive".

    All you "eye for an eye" people, good luck when bad law comes back on you. What goes around comes around. If we persist in Utah in denying the lessons from our roots when states rights drove us from Nauvoo, we will reap the whirlwind.

    Please, we of all people, should have the compassion/smarts to figure out the higher road for living with our brothers and sisters.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    Feb. 12, 2011 2:44 a.m.

    ITIN numbers were designed for non-citizen business owners to pay taxes on property and business interests. It's just been the last while that pro-illegal organizations/people have encouraged people to use them thanks to a loophole in the system.

    We are condemned if we do, and condemned if we don't.

    We have been fighting lack of illegal immigration enforcement for 25 years.

    The only real solution is for enforcement. Rewarding illegal behavior just makes it worse.

  • CWEB Orem, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 12:08 a.m.

    What so many of you lack in understanding, ignore & forget, when you so flippantly say,

    "They need to come LEGALLY"

    Is that for many many years, you all, along with the Federal Government have ignored, not cared, not been bothered by their presence.

    Further, you have allowed our elected officials to dangle the proverbial carrot in the faces of people who are POOR, desperate, deprived, scared, and in DIRE need of help.

    YOU, we, are accountable for allowing our elected Federal officials to hand out ITIN numbers.

    Accountable for hiring and winking at thousands of illegal workers--YOU, your friends and neighbors-- have hired them to do lawn work, labor, construction on your homes...hardly a single home in Utah has been built without some hand of an illegal worker.

    THIS is where I see YOU, we, are accountable before God...for all of the sudden things get a little tough...and all jump on the band wagon to pull the rug out from under many families who have put roots down in our communities for many many years.

    I'm embarrassed by your brazenness...shocked by your callousness... and no compassion.

    For YOU, we, have created this problem.

  • Just my opinion Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2011 11:31 p.m.

    This bill might cost some money. It might even cost the $11,000,000.00 I have seen listed.

    But if you are able to just deport 2,000 illigals that committed a crime. You will save the $10,000.00 plus it would cost to have each in jail (I don't have the real number it cost, so I went with a very low number). But even at that low number you will save $20,000,000.00.

    Then if not having those 2,000 here stops another 1,000 illigals that did not commit a crime to also not be here, from either leaving to be with the ones deported or from having kids here. That probably saves us from having anywhere from 500-2000 students no in our school we are currently paying for and shouldn't be. Another $2,500,000.00 to $10,000,000.00 savings.

    Plus welfare money saved of probably $10,000,000.00+.

    For a grand total of my low number of $32,000,000.00 up to as much as $100,000,000.00.

    So I would say the $11,000,000.00 is worth it.

  • Proud to be American West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 11, 2011 10:02 p.m.

    This is a great step in the right direction.

    Why does the media continue to care what Paul Mero of the Sutherland Institute thinks? It cracks me up!

    Kudos to those who passed this on to the next level, we need this in place... yesterday!

  • tabuno Clearfield, UT
    Feb. 11, 2011 9:33 p.m.

    I don't think that polls on how citizens view this bill and the cost it entails are very helpful. Until the actual experience of citizens coping with the budget and service cutbacks that come with the implementation of this legislation as cities having to enforce this bill using existing resources that could go elsewhere for law enforcement, polls are only as good as the vague notions and ideas of what $11 millions really might create. Until then reality happens, polls are just imaginary what people hope but don't really know what life will be like.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 11, 2011 9:02 p.m.

    Sandstrom's bill is nowhere near as tough as it should be, but at least it is a start in the right direction.

    Legal immigrants are welcome. Illegal immigrants are not.

    We must change every law that provides any incentive, encouragement or support for illegal in our state. It is not the responsibility of the state of Utah, nor its taxpayers or residents to provide welfare, jobs, drives licenses or in state tuition to anyone here illegally, or the children of illegals.

    I urge all members of the Legislature to pass this bill immediately! Then get to work on the other issues to get really tough!

  • Lectori Salutem Beautiful Salt Lake Valley, Utah
    Feb. 11, 2011 7:01 p.m.

    I listened to the hearing and was especially touched by the statements of Mr. Morales-Llan, a dentist (cannot remember her name), a police officer (maybe former?) and Rep. Herrod. I was also impressed by the testimony of a doctor or psychologist, a self-described black man who has actually suffered civil rights abuses, who supports HB 70 despite claims by the opposition that it will violate civil rights. He was cut off but not before he gave us an elementary psychology lesson: If you reward bad behavior you're going to get more of that behavior. I agree!

    Opposing arguments only convinced me that the same people whose bad behavior got us to this point want to continue to profit from that behavior. I don't think we should reward that.

    I expect Utah legislators to finally do something that will actually result in deterring illegal immigration and making more jobs available to citizens and legal aliens at fair wages, especially since illegal immigration is again on the upswing.

    IMO Sandstrom's, Herrod's and Mayne's bills together would make a significant impact where the Meros-Robles bill would exacerbate and perpetuate the problem.