Jason Buck says Utah Utes, BYU will be fine, but not totally sold on independence

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  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Feb. 6, 2011 10:41 a.m.

    re: chubbymagoo | 1:51 p.m. Feb. 3, 2011

    Not to mention, the College of Mines & Earth Sciences and Middle Eastern Center.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Feb. 4, 2011 6:03 p.m.

    re: Veritas Aequitas | 2:54 p.m. Feb. 3, 2011

    I understand perfectly what Papa Smurf UTE is saying. You don't need any special tools to decode it either.

    Bottom line: Quantity rarely equals quality.

  • Wiley Old School RIC, VA
    Feb. 3, 2011 10:08 p.m.

    Xpat: OK, Ill try one last time. Do the math. 10,200 students are admitted to BYU each year, about 70% of 14,500 applicants. Lets assume the mix of applicants is equal to those admitted (98% LDS, 2% Non-LDS). That means each year, a mere 290 non-LDS apply to BYU. Besides the 12 colleges that have total enrollment below 290, please name one college that gets fewer non-LDS applicants (besides BYU-I/H). One must therefore conclude that virtually every college in the country is more attractive to non-LDS college applicants than BYU. Therefore, my comment to WA was that it makes no sense to use popularity as a factor in arguing BYUs greatness.

    Duck: Please cite one fact that I made up? Even where I identified an estimate, do your research and you wont find any material gap. You, on the other hand, pull all sorts of facts out of your hat. Your facts about Utah and BYUs reputation around the world is complete conjecture. (See chubbymagoos counter-argument with supporting references.) You continue to earn your reputation as BYUs version of Chris B.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    Feb. 3, 2011 5:42 p.m.

    Hedgehog, you need a geography lesson. New Mexico is not in Provo, Utah. I believe the posting was referring to LES, not bowl games. You take whatever is said and turn it against BYU constantly.
    What a piece of work you paint yourself as whenever you post.

  • BigCougar SLC, UT
    Feb. 3, 2011 3:31 p.m.

    "How do you explain the poor turnout at the New Mexico bowl"

    Excuse me but I thought the NMB was played in Albuquerque and not Provo. Had it been played in Provo it would have been a sell out.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Feb. 3, 2011 2:54 p.m.

    Papa Smurf UTE | 4:26 p.m. Feb. 2, 2011
    Herriman, UT
    All of you ZOOB trolls out there have no idea what you are talking about. I am glad that you have 20K more fans in the stand then we do each week. Your stadium also holds more. What an awesome accomplishment....
    ... I like our situation much better than what the ZOOBS are in.

    Brilliant slam. I'm sure every fan of BYU will now run into hiding because of the clarity of your logic.


    Thanks for sharing.

  • chubbymagoo Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2011 1:51 p.m.


    You've made some comments that are both arrogant and untrue.

    Your statement that Utah is a regional school at best is ridiculous. You've referenced the US News rankings, yet ignore that Utah has been ranked by US News with the National Universities for decades. It also ranks higher than BYU in other rankings, such as Academic Ranking of World Universities. You should check out the Carnegie Foundation's analysis of the U, which of course goes against your statment.

    As far as what you said about Utah's programs, you conveniently forget Pharmacy, Architecture, Physical Therapy, and far more graduate degrees than BYU offers. Also, the U doesn't have academic freedom issues which are a huge black eye on BYU's reputation.

    In reality, the schools are difficult to compare because they are different in so many ways. If you're going to compare and make bold statements, though, back them up with some credible information.

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Feb. 3, 2011 11:55 a.m.

    Why do you care so much wiley that you are arguing about it and making up "facts" to try and prove your point?

    Personally I don't care if you like BYU or not, and I really don't care if it is popular with anyone else. What I do care about is that it continues on its mission of providing an excellent education to its students and that the majority of those students are LDS from all over the world.

    Whether it matters or not BYU is a much more widely known, and respected, university than utah is. Outside of the salt lake valley litterally no one aspires to attend there. utah must bring itself, and its attributes, to the attention of people outside of the sl valley. Now those of us that live here know it is a fine university but it is a state university and unless it has a specific program to attract out of staters no one cares about it.

    My brother in law attended college in north dakota because it has a program he wanted. My sister did the same in witchita. Neither cared about the university they just took advantage of a program.

  • Wiley Old School RIC, VA
    Feb. 3, 2011 10:53 a.m.

    WA 10:01 -

    Well, having lived in Massachusetts, New York, Arizona, and Virginia, I have literally never had anyone refer to the U as a Mormon school. (I'm sure they assume many Mormons attend there.) I'd estimate the LDS % at the U at somewhere between 40-60%, consistent with the SLC mix. But you still don't get the argument.

    My point is that BYU is only popular with Mormons. If we remove the Utah/I-15 corridor population from the BYU and Utah total to assess "popularity" outside of the region, what do you think the LDS component is? At BYU, it will remain somewhere near 99%. At Utah, I'm guessing no more than 10%. So for 98.3% of the US population, Utah is a more "popular" school. I'm not suggesting that means anything for the U one way or the other because virtually every other school in the country is also more popular than BYU among that 98.3% of the population.

    Why do you care about popularity anyway?

  • Wiley Old School RIC, VA
    Feb. 3, 2011 10:08 a.m.

    WA -
    Sorry your brother didn't have the wonderful experience that I did. Since it seems we might have been contemporaries, I wonder how I was able to avoid all this hate that you reference. I definitely had to be prepared to work with people who did not share or even respect my faith but thats an experience that I cherish and value to this day.

    As a Ute I certainly had no affinity for BYU's athletic teams (and that prevalent BYU-fan phenomenon that weaves testimony and BYU sports together). Only under the rare scenario when a win for BYU was helpful to Utah could I ever root for BYU. (Thankfully, with the move to the PAC, I'll never have to do that again!) By your definition, does this qualify as "hate?" If so, virtually every fan of a team with a rival is a hater.

    Finally, you continue to miss the point of "point 2." Measure your school's greatness however you want but if "popularity" is one of your measuring sticks, just recognize that the flawed "acceptance rate" measure can only measure popularity among 1.7% of the US population.

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    Feb. 3, 2011 10:01 a.m.


    And on the Mormon thing, you try to argue difference on the one thing BYU and UU have most in common. How many outside the I-15 corridor view the U as anything but "that other Mormon school," if they've even heard of it at all? Having lived in Ohio, Virginia, New Mexico, Puerto Rico, Colorado, California, and Washington, I can tell you: Nobody. Sure, 99.7% of BYU attendees are LDS. What do you suppose the percentage at UU to be?

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    Feb. 3, 2011 8:09 a.m.


    To your fourth point: You could ask my brother yourself. He graduated a year early from high school while we were living overseas. He was accepted to BYU and UU, but the Y would not allow him to use his CLEP scores to avoid taking classes, and the U did. Once at the U and surrounded by all the hate, he became a hater for 15 years. Never set foot on BYU's campus, figured he knew everything he needed to know about it. Until he decided to get his MBA, and the best ranked school he was accepted to was BYU. After living in both worlds, he's a BYU fan now.

    To point 3, even in their down years, BYU football and basketball out-draw Utah in their best years. On the road it's not even a contest. In Utah's down years, home attendance is truly pathetic (more--and louder--BYU fans at the Huntsman this year than Utes?).

    Point 2: More than geography or demographics. Look at USN&WR's college rankings, any year, any category where both schools have programs. Where exactly does UU outrank BYU?

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 3, 2011 8:08 a.m.

    This is hilarious and very entertaining. I love how BYU fans eat their own when one does not conform to the company line.

  • True Blue Champions (1984) Provo, Utah
    Feb. 3, 2011 7:52 a.m.

    I am very excited about this coming year of Independence. That being said, I am a little nervous about the risk that we have taken. The concern is the same as everyone else; if we lose games at the beginning there may be a problem.

    After thinking on this concern I have concluded optimistically that everything will be just fine. There is nothing stronger than Cougar Town and its fan base. In addition to this, we also historically have been an elite program which demands respect from the nation. We are in an Elite Family of Programs in that we have won a National Title.

    I think other storied programs realize this. That is why we have been able to schedule games against teams like Texas and Notre Dame in the future. I can see in the future the Cougs regularly playing series against these two teams as well as teams such as Michigan, USC, Florida State and Penn State.

    Perhaps I am getting ahead of myself (at times I go a little overboard), but I am extremely excited for the first day of football. I believe this day will be remembered as OUR INDEPENDENCE DAY!!!

    Go Cougs!!!!

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 3, 2011 7:27 a.m.

    "If they lose, fans are going to move on. They always do, even at BYU."

    As witnessed at the New Mexico bowl... have empty stadium and horrible tv viewership.

    The first 5 weeks of the 2011 season will be DO or Die for the tds.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 3, 2011 7:16 a.m.


    No Max, even in the Crowton years, the fans "Did Not" move on. Attendance at Football dropped about 5 thousand per game, still averaged nearly 60k even in Crowtons worst year.

    YOu want to see fans move on? Watch the RES when 5-6, 6-6, become the norm at Uteville. They'll lose half their fans.

    Seen the crowds at the Huntsman lately?

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 3, 2011 7:08 a.m.


    Sorry Carnak, should have been to patriot, one post above yours.

  • Max Syracuse, NY
    Feb. 3, 2011 4:53 a.m.

    Buck's analysis is right on. Independence is a risk but BYU can pull it off IF THEY WIN THE BIG GAMES. This has always been my concern. If they lose, fans are going to move on. They always do, even at BYU.

  • Drailed Lindon, UT
    Feb. 3, 2011 2:19 a.m.


    Isn't 37.5% bowl winning percentage close to what BYU's bowl win % is? Your right, a 37% bowl win % is not good. So according to you, BYU is not good either.

    If the B12 offered, BYU would be all over it.

  • Wiley Old School RIC, VA
    Feb. 2, 2011 11:41 p.m.


    1) I stand corrected on your first point.

    2) Now, how about paying attention to the second, more pertinent one, your suggestion that BYU is some kind of cosmopolitan, universally aspired-to institution.

    That is the furthest from the truth. BYU appeals to one single demographic almost exclusively, likely more so that any other institution in the country. It's just that the demographic is not on a geographic dimension.

    One can measure whether or not BYU is a world-class school on many dimensions but "universal appeal" is not one of them.

    3) I'm hard-pressed to figure out what you intended by your "bandwagon" comment. It seems, like so many from your school, that you believe your fan-dome is somehow more pure and genuine than fans from other schools. Please tell me that you are the rare Cougar exception and that's not what you meant.

    4) Please tell us what it is you think your brother lost by attending Utah over BYU. I'm sure this will be good!

  • CWEB Orem, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 11:17 p.m.

    To BYUDEEK--You're dreaming if you think Buck would have EVER sat...

    Obviously, you never saw him play...ruthless, killer instinct, and brutal. BYU needs 10 Bucks...

    Now, as for his opinion,

    "Jason, What have you done for us lately?"

    We really do miss Ricks College as a feeder...

    BYU will do just dandy...thank you.

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    Feb. 2, 2011 11:09 p.m.


    Pay attention. There are plenty of students who are accepted to both and for one reason or another decided to attend UU (my brother was one. His loss). I'm looking for that one student who applied to both schools & was accepted to BYU but *not* the U. Haven't found him yet.

    And just because they are Mormons who come from all over the USA and world to attend doesn't at all diminish the fact that this makes BYU a world-class school.

    Bandwagon Ute fans cheer for that particular team on the field or court. BYU fans cheer for their school. Big difference.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 10:05 p.m.

    To Bluto @ 9:13

    Don't know why you directed this at me but thanks for the trivia. If I am ever on Jeopardy it will be useful.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 9:13 p.m.


    When the Pac-10 intially spoke of expansion, in this most recent phase, they made a play for 6 Big-12 teams.

    This was their first choice of action.

    Oklahoma, Ok. St., Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech and Baylor.

    This was said many times to have been a done deal.

    The major snag, to all of this, was Baylor.

    Baylor, a Religious Institution, like BYU, had to contend with the Presidents and Faculty, who would never approve of them in the liberal hot-beds of Berkeley, Palo Alto, Seattle and Eugene.

    In order to extract Baylor from the mix, out of the blue, Colorado was invited, even while the Pac was still negotiating with the Big-6. This effectively eliminated Baylor.

    Now the Pac-12 was courting the remaining Five. They jumped the gun on Colorado simply to remove Baylor.

    So far so good.

    Then once that deal blew up, there sat the Pac with lonesome Colorado, and needing a partner invited Utah as a "Throw In".

    Utah won't have the same shared revenues as Colorado has, for at least 5 years.

    BYU's Colleges and as a University are rated higher than Utah's.


  • Unbelievable West Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 2, 2011 8:36 p.m.

    USC just signed 15 5star athletes. Who is it Utah opens up with next year, in Los Angeles? Against Matt Barkley!

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    Feb. 2, 2011 7:06 p.m.

    The issue isn't which is better Independent or Pac-12 - that's a no-brainer. The question is which is better - Indenpendent or MWC - another no-brainer.

  • Wiley Old School RIC, VA
    Feb. 2, 2011 6:49 p.m.

    WA - I, along with thousands of others, turned down acceptance at BYU in favor of Utah. (And I also turned BYU down when it came time for grad school.)

    Don't be thick. BYU turns away thousands of MORMONS from all over the world each year. You can probably count on your digits the number of non-LDS they turn down each year. (In that sense, BYU is probably more "regional" than almost any school in the world.)

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    Feb. 2, 2011 6:11 p.m.

    I'm sick of hearing Ute trolls assume that BYU and UU are rivals. Utah is a regional school--at best. Except for medical and perhaps Womens gymnastics, who from outside the intermountain west ever selects UU as their first choice school? Meanwhile BYU turns away thousands of applicants from all over the world, and more than half the BYU student body and fan base is not from the I-15 corridor.

    Still looking for that one person who was accepted at BYU not at UU. Still waiting . . .

  • TheHailstorm South Weber, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 5:56 p.m.

    Duckhunter | 3:44 p.m. Feb. 2, 2011
    American Fork, UT

    Well some of us get out of our parents basement and do things like go to school, play sports, stat business's, coach athletic's, stuff like that. Along the way we meet people.

    You should try it.
    Not to mention Ponzi Schemes, Multi- Level Marketing, and Amway. ( What is a stat business ?)
    Athletics doesn't have an apostrophe.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 5:50 p.m.

    In the future go ahead and refer all questions to Ducky. After all he has personally built all the athletic facilities in the state and knows all of the coaches and sports writers. He also has been a little league coach and a statictician.


  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 5:39 p.m.

    re:BYU Deek

    The U earned its way into the Pac 12 mainly from its two BCS victories over Pitt and Alabama. The Y has yet to break into the BCS. Also, the U has the medical school and that out shines the Y as far as academics are concerned. Your point about prop 8 is correct. The liberal Pac 12 California schools are certainly biased against BYU but I don't think that was as big a factor as the other issues (BCS and research school academics).

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 2, 2011 5:15 p.m.

    "hedghop hows Michigan doing?"


    I love the fact that the Utes beat out UofM for Jarred Oliver....

    Actually the program did fairly well after Rich Rod got the boot.

  • gb13 Herriman, Utah
    Feb. 2, 2011 5:06 p.m.


    Why would BYU wait for a call from the Big 12? (We wouldn't answer anyway because we have caller ID).

    Check out the past bowl records:
    MWC 4 - 1 .800
    Independents 2 - 1 .667
    PAC-10 2 - 2 .500
    Big 10 3 - 5 .375
    Big 12 3 - 5 .375

    Even a Big 12 school should be able to reason that a 37.5% winning record (in bowls) is not good. Independence (66.7%) seems to be a huge step above that.

  • IDC Boise, ID
    Feb. 2, 2011 5:01 p.m.

    The Pac 12 will never invite BYU. This is because of BYUs conservative beliefs and policies. One might (I repeat might) argue that Utah has been better in football in the past 6 years only because of BCS games, not wins or conference championships in football. All other sports other than gymnastics, BYU is better. BYUs athletic program is hands-down stronger than Utahs. BYU probably has as many conference championships as the rest of the MWC combined.

    BYU going independent is risky but the upside is incredible. Independence is like going into business for yourself. You put everything on the line and if you lose, you lose big. If you are successful, you win big. Utah got a job with a good company and will start at the bottom in pay and seniority. BYU will start with good money, gets all the freedom it can handle, and gets to keep all of its money. With ESPN on board and BYUTV ready to go, a lot of the risk is removed. BYU will be fine and will most likely do great. Utah will do well, no more, no less. Utah's boundary is set.

  • sdunn Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 4:58 p.m.

    my jazz and hedghog,

    they still suck in bball and football.

  • sdunn Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 4:49 p.m.

    Papa Smurf Ute

    Chow is better then Doman who said? You that is funny. Remember that BYU pushed Chow out the door. You forgot that I guess. Just because he coaches for the U makes him better I see. You probably think that Whittingham is much better then Bronco as well. But don't you think that you are biased in that as well. I would think that alot more people would disagree with you then agree with you on both of those points. But it is just your opinion.

  • myjazz Ogden, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 4:43 p.m.

    hedghop hows Michigan doing?

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 4:30 p.m.

    @Wally West

    Was there a point to that? The U has been doing alot of work on its non athletic facilities, I do alot of stuff there. They are also actively upgrading the athletic facilities. I have no idea if they are making athletic upgrades at the expense of academics but I doubt it. The Non athletic stuff that has been built there over the last several years is far more extensive than the athletic stuff.

    But of course they have a budget just like everyone else does and can only do things as they get funds to do them just like I stated.

    That new track is very nice. You ought to go see it.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 4:26 p.m.

    All of you ZOOB trolls out there have no idea what you are talking about. I am glad that you have 20K more fans in the stand then we do each week. Your stadium also holds more. What an awesome accomplishment. I dont care if the UTES have 10 fans in the stands or 100 thousand fans in the stands. If we wins games, that is all that matters. I am glad that you have 60K plus fans in the stands to watch you play & possibly lose to the little sisters of the poor. You have a great early schedule, no one can dispute that. However, the last half of the season is so pathetic, that I believe even Bingham High could go undefeated after your 4th game. Fans in the stands do not make a team. Players and coaches do, & as of right now, I like our situation much better than what the ZOOBS are in. Whit is a better coach than Donkey. NormChow is MUCH better than Doman. Buck is a 100% right. Being in the Pac 12 is much better than be an irrelevant. I mean Independent.

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 4:15 p.m.

    @ justired | 11:56 a.m. Feb. 2, 2011

    Yes, you're right (ha ha), just like all former players, commentators, sports journalists and announcers are experts.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    Feb. 2, 2011 3:53 p.m.

    Look, his son was not qualified for BYU, but I'm sure he will fit well at Utah.

    Buck makes some valid points and no one can be sure how things will turn out. Utah may be the new Washington State or BYU may struggle to recruit. I doubt either is true, but we'll know the answers in about 3 years. In the meantime, I'm ready for the first game.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Feb. 2, 2011 3:50 p.m.

    Consider Penn State. As an Indy, Penn State had a great program and played for and won a NC and went to big bowls. They joined the Big10 and have pretty much disappeared.

    Notre Dame under Lew Holtz played in BCS bowls even when they were crappy. The got demolished, but still got the invites. When ND starts to win again, they'll be in the big bowls again.

    BYU's 2011 schedule is far from weak. It is top loaded though. If they come out with a 10-2 record, with losses to say, Texas and Georgia Tech, they'll get a nice bowl. If they win out, they'll get a BCS bowl. ESPN will virtually guarantee it.

    Utah will have to win the conference to get into the Rose Bowl, but could get in with a loss or two. BYU will have to win out. BYU will be playing some big boys and may often wind up with higher SOS than Utah. So a BCS game for BYU is a longer shot than Utah making the Rose Bowl. But not much.

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 3:44 p.m.


    Well some of us get out of our parents basement and do things like go to school, play sports, stat business's, coach athletic's, stuff like that. Along the way we meet people.

    You should try it.

  • BYU Deek Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 3:35 p.m.

    Buck's kid wasn't recruited by BYU, and he's also upset about not being in the BYU Hall of Fame (not having graduated) BYU had many talented recruits in last year's class, and Buck would have been riding pine.

    BYU performs more undergrad research than any private school in the country. If a Ute troll claims that BYU wasn't invited to the PAC-10 because they're not a research school he is fooling himself. BYU has harder admission requirements than the UofU, and BYU is #1 when it comes to number of applicants that are accepted that end up enrolling. Making BYU the most popular university in America. I bet that really gets some Ute goat. Utah was invited for one reason, and one reason alone. They're not BYU. The liberal left wing better than you School Presidents of the PAC-10 didn't want the Prop 8 loving Mormons in their conference, end of story.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 3:16 p.m.

    CougFaninTX | 12:13 p.m. Feb. 2, 2011
    Frisco, TX
    As a huge Cougar fan, I mostly agree with Buck's assessment. There is more risk with being independent than belonging to a conference.

    The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward.

    Buck's kid play's at Utah.

    He can still have an unbiased opinion.

    I'm sure that KWhitt has not problem with the BYU program being successful in independence.

    The same way Pres. Samuelson has no problem with Utah being successful in the PAC.

    Now the opinions of Naval, Chris, Hedge, ucu, etc... Who cares?

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 2, 2011 3:16 p.m.

    And so I must ask the question again...waite for it....

    Has the Big 12 called yet?

  • Madden Herriman, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 3:11 p.m.

    Good analysis. Pac-12 or Big-12 or any major conference would be better, but I still think that independence beats the new MWC/WAC.

  • Huskie Snohomish, WA
    Feb. 2, 2011 2:57 p.m.

    Sdunn needs to get his facts right. Washington had better attendance in the stands last year than did BYU. BYU ranked 27th Washington 23rd. According to the NCAA stats.

  • Skippy West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 2:54 p.m.

    Buck's kid goes Utah and so does Todd Christensens!

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 2:32 p.m.

    re: Duckhunter | 12:35 p.m. Feb. 2, 2011

    "I think utah realizes they need to upgrade facilities but it has to happen when funds become available to do it."

    Darn that administration up to the U. How dare they upgrade the library, build new buildings for Mines & Engineering, etc... Don't they know their athletes need exposure... but not like Ben Roethliesberger.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 2:29 p.m.

    You would be 100% correct if the LA Coliseum and Rose Bowl ran consistently @ 50% of capacity.

    p.s. Do you consider Austin, TX part of the west?

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 2:29 p.m.

    Buck must own Versus TV....no one thinks that staying in the MWC is a good deal~

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 2:29 p.m.

    Brad, was that you putting in that last line on this paper? Come on Brad, cut it out you Deseret News troll toward BYU!

  • PGVikingDad Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 2:25 p.m.

    Ernest, not one poster made any claim approaching "independence is better than BCS conference affiliation." Where did you get that from? Is there some hidden post, or are you just putting words in others' mouths? But independence is certainly better than continuing to drown in anonymity, playing Nevada and Fresno for a conference title no one cares about for chicken-feed revenues.

  • Dadof8 Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 2:17 p.m.

    And I should care about Jason Buck's opinion because?

  • XelaDave Salem, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 2:03 p.m.

    Yeah fans in the seats at the stadium are nice but ESPN could careless about that- fans on the couch now that matters and Buck is right on- early losses and then mediocre teams means no fans on the couch which eventually means no check in the mail

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 2:02 p.m.


    Not only does Ducky know everyone in every athletic department at every college, he has contracted work building all of their facilities. Reality is that both schools will be fine going their seperate ways.

  • chubbymagoo Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 1:46 p.m.

    CougFaninTX: "Conservative values" have nothing to do with the fact that BYU was not invited, or even considered, by the PAC-10. BYU's Sunday play policy was likely a factor, as is the fact that BYU is not a research institution. Lack of academic freedom and active censorship, however, are what ultimately outweigh the athletic programs, fan base, revenue, and other positives that BYU would bring to the PAC-10 table. They are the 800 lb. gorilla that is ignored in favor of statements like "conservative values."

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 1:36 p.m.


    I'm pretty sure BYU fans are going to enjoy watching their team every single week, and win most weeks. I'm more concerned about utah "fans" like yourself only being able to watch your team every few weeks although considering the majority of those games will probably be losses you may not want to watch them anyway. My guess is that res will be mighty empty after a couple of years of .500 or worse records. utah "fans" have proven they are only bandwagon types.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 1:28 p.m.

    You guys really believe indy is better than a BCS conference?
    7-5 in the PAC is far better than 8-4 against Idaho State and Northern Arizona.
    The shadow is just going to get bigger and bigger for you guys.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 1:21 p.m.

    @Einstein Hedgehog

    BYU is located in Provo. Not New Mexico.

    When BYU plays at home they average 20k more fans per game than Utah does, even in the Crowton years, they still averaged nearly 60k per game.

    Last 30 years BYU has consistently been top 25 Nationally in Football and Basketball

    I think you and the U trolls should worry about filling your own venues.

    Utah has 15-20k Fair Weather Fans, that Disappear, when Utah falls below the 8 win mark.

    Watch this coming year. Most are predicitng Utah at 6-6 or 7-5. You'll see. Talk is cheap.

    BYU as a visiting team nearly always boosts the Home teams attendance, it's usually their largest crowd of the year.

    Most of the fans at New Mexico were still BYU fans, ask Albuquerque why they don't show up for their piddly bowl.

    Jason, now set an example for your boy, finish your degree, so we can put you in the BYU Hall of Fame.

    Then we'll promote you for the College Hall of Fame, you deserve it.

    Rules require a degree first. McMahon missed the graduation degree requirement by one year.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 1:20 p.m.

    None of this really matters IF the Y wins. If they win then they will have national prominance and if they lose ...well then they lose and losers never prosper. I actually think if the Y wins for two years in a row there is a good chance they will get invited to the Big12... that is if Texas doesn't go independent. The same is true for the U. If the U can compete week to week in the Pac 12 and be in the top 25% of the conference then their program will prosper but if they get the injury bug and lose a bunch of conference games and finish in the lower 25% then they will sort of lose their luster nationally. I don't think teams like Washington State and Arizona are really on anyones must watch board anymore as far as football is concerned.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Feb. 2, 2011 1:14 p.m.

    @H-hog 12:03:

    You need stay focused on the 3 points your team scored in the Vegas Bowl and forget about the New Mexico Bowl. Remember - stay focused, stay focused.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    Feb. 2, 2011 1:04 p.m.

    Independence has risks but those pale when compared with staying in the MTN saddled with the horrible TV contract that nobody outside of UT watches.

    BYU's biggest problem next year is not independence it is getting WRs and TEs who can run a route and catch. Also some DBs.

    We will see how Utah is ranked next year. I do not believe they will be any better than last year and will have a better schedule.

  • Tommy2Shoes Lehi, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 12:58 p.m.

    Buck has some good opinions and expresses them well. Utah does have an easier path to follow in a weak conference like the PAC12. Utes should go unbeaten over the next ten years and win at least 10 NC. If not I'll be very disappointed in them. Hope little Buck gets into the games over the next few years. Hardly likely considering the strength of the recruiting classes going to rush the Ute door. Better expand the stadium to compete with Michigan (100,000 plus).

    Cougars will struggle winning any games with the poor classes going there. What were they thinking leaving the mighty MWC for Independence? Mountain for ESPN? What a bunch of losers.

    Kings X.

  • Duckhunter American Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 12:35 p.m.


    utah actually just built a track last spring/summer. I contracted some of the work. It is a very nice facility. I think utah realizes they need to upgrade facilities but it has to happen when funds become available to do it.

  • MenaceToSociety Draper, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 12:29 p.m.

    As a fan, not having a conference championship to play for would not be cool. With no league title to play for, the season largely turns into a 12 game exhibition schedule. And in BYU's case, mostly against crappy competition. If BYU fan thought the bottom of the MWC was bad...

    BYU fan better hope the Utes do not have success in the Pac 12. If they do, the Utes will continue their 20 year process of catching then passing the BYU program, and will ultimately leave it in the dust. Who would you want to root for and play for? A successful Pac 12 team, or a team playing a mostly bad, exhibition type of schedule? If I were a BYU fan, I would not be happy. But thankfully I am not.

  • itsajelly Walla Walla, WA
    Feb. 2, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    I see BYU joining Texas before I see Texas joining BYU.

  • alternate Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 12:15 p.m.

    Adding the TCU game is huge. With 6 home games and big money games with Texas and TCU, the Y is in a position to bring in a lot more revenue next year alone than they ever have. It may even come close to what a PAC12 member will get.

    Unfortunately for Utah, they won't see the big money for a couple more years. So they may struggle more finance wise that an independent BYU at least for 2011 and 2012. They are also behind in facilities. I am sure there will be pressure from the PAC12 to increase seating in RES, build a baseball and track facility, etc.

    Actually it is scary times for both teams.

  • P.M. Francis Idaho Falls, ID
    Feb. 2, 2011 12:13 p.m.

    Interesting article. I think BYU will do just fine. Anything is better than being stuck in the Mountain West Conference where limited television access starved its fans for the past several years. BYU has many motives behind independence. The cougars will step up and be successful. Great athletes signed with the cougars in the last month. Recruiting is top-notch, led by an incredible coach who has his priorities straight. Hats off to a great BYU decision to go independent. Keep doing your thing Buck, hope your son does well in the Pac 12.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Feb. 2, 2011 12:13 p.m.

    As a huge Cougar fan, I mostly agree with Buck's assessment. There is more risk with being independent than belonging to a conference.

    Some Ute fans may mistakenly believe that they were chosen by the PAC12 because of their superior athletic programs. But the reality is that BYU was excluded because of its conservative values and unwillingness to play on Sunday - nothing to do with sports

    BYU has far more championships (across all sports), BYU has a better television following and BYU fills its stadium and visiting stadiums, better than Utah.

    BYU will get more exposure, more money, more publicity and an a better opportunity to take its football program to the next level as an independent than they would in the MWC. A couple of 11-1 or 12-0 seasons and BYU will easily surpass any prestige they would have received as part of a conference, even the PAC12 or Big 12.

    But 7-6 seasons won't cut it. Even the mighty Notre Dame has seen their "stock drop" since they're no longer considered contenders like they were in the Holtz era.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Feb. 2, 2011 12:03 p.m.

    "Even if BYU loses early BYU will still have more fans in the stands then any other state in the western part of the US throughout the rest of the year, even during the easy and cold games."

    How do you explain the poor turnout at the New Mexico bowl?? Half empty stadium and the worst TV rating in 20 years....

  • nottyou Riverton, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 11:57 a.m.

    BYU fan's interest in Jason Buck's opinion is weak. He's a Ute now (or at least he should be with his son playing) so what do you expect him to say? Of course, playing in the PAC 12 is better than being Independent, but BYU didn't have that choice. I think they are making the best of the situation. The Utes and the Cougs will do just fine.

  • justired Fillmore, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 11:56 a.m.

    good to hear from jason buck. when he speaks, i listen. he should be a sports announcer or color commentator.

  • Still Blue after all these years Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 11:53 a.m.

    Well, Jason needs to get on board! This was a smart move and give us more money immediately, exposure that we've been sorely lacking, while keeping all potential options on table for future.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 11:51 a.m.

    BYU will certainly need to win early in 2011 in order to maintain visibility in 2011. BYU will not continue to have late schedules loaded with smaller WAC schools as this progresses. Anyone who assumed this change wouldn't take a few years to flesh out was seriously mistaken. BYU has the formula to win in this arrangement and will be much better off for it. Texas seems to hold BYU's model in high regard, other big name schools will probably follow in the next 10-20 years.

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    Feb. 2, 2011 11:49 a.m.

    Yeah, bucks kid goes to the u. No wonder his opinion is sorely biased.

    Give it 3 years and let's talk again!

  • sdunn Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2011 11:28 a.m.

    Even if BYU loses early BYU will still have more fans in the stands then any other state in the western part of the US throughout the rest of the year, even during the easy and cold games.