Police: Mormon temple gunman heavily armed, possibly mentally ill

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  • Janadele¬© Sydney, NSW
    Dec. 30, 2010 6:51 p.m.

    Daniel M. Pogue lived nearby the Temple, and suffered from depression which combined with medication affects a person's mental state and perceptions. it seems to me that his reasoning was that he was protecting the Temple and grounds from the "birds". He told a bystander to go home as the birds were coming, and that they had been there last night. We should all be aware of the harm both illegal drugs and prescription medications do to the human body.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 29, 2010 3:39 p.m.

    It's an adverse reaction to the meds.

    R.I.P. Mr. Progue.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 29, 2010 11:59 a.m.

    It is obvious, Tom Smith, that most of us responders get along just fine with the police.

    And yes, if you are running around with a deadly weapon and the police order you to drop it you can be sure they will shoot first and ask questions later.

    Get used to the idea and you'll live a lot longer.

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2010 5:26 p.m.

    Stay on subject. This story is not about those with depression and why their families report them only after a serious incident or the police using deadly force. It's about a dangerous armed person and the protection of innocent bystanders. Follow on stories can explore appropriate use of non-lethal force, guns and the tragedy of mental illness.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Dec. 28, 2010 2:42 p.m.

    I will stand as a second witness with sledhead. I am on medication for depression and yet I do not own any weapons, and stockpiling them is the furthest thing from my mind.

    Dr. Tracy has been trying to advance a flawed understanding of psychiatry for years which attacks the many benefits of medication. Medication allows many of us to function who would otherwise have no energy. Anti-depressants are a good thing, and those who fight them are encoraging us to throw a method of dealing with our conditions that the Lord has provided us.

  • Barack Obama Phoenix, AZ
    Dec. 28, 2010 2:31 p.m.

    I understand why this guy had to be shot but I often wonder if there aren't other non-lethal ways people like this can be stopped or temporarily incapacitated. In this case, I think deadly force was probably necessary but so many other cases we read about I can't help but think that there must be a better way.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 28, 2010 1:44 p.m.

    Great job citizen(s) who promptly called the police. Great job police. I would expect to be shot in the same circumstance. Anyone who wouldn't expect the same thing should probably get some help before they hurt someone.

  • JRJ Pocatello, ID
    Dec. 28, 2010 12:46 p.m.

    Good suggestion to get the facts before publishing the story. It now makes sense. And to those of you who are "throwing rocks" at the police, DON'T!!! My sons are police officers and you will not find two finer men on the earth. They do everything in their power to solve situations peacefully. But the public does demand protection and since the "Tom's" of the world are not qualified to do anything but complain, someone must do it.

  • EgbertThrockmorton Layton, UT
    Dec. 28, 2010 12:31 p.m.

    The ONLY person responsible for the death and potential huge loss of life at the Oquirrh MOuntain Temple shooting is Mr. Daniel Pogue. No one else bears any responsibility. For whatever the reason he alone chose, he did what he did, and the South Jordan Police Department responding officers did what they needed to do, to bring this to a SWIFT conclusion. Excellent work by the SJPD, and no, I don't work for them nor di I know anyone who does/did.

  • thelogicalone salt lake city, UT
    Dec. 28, 2010 12:08 p.m.

    "only depression"? I'm appalled that someone who had once been close to Mr. Pogue, his estranged wife, would say something like that. "Only depression" is the cause for many suicides each year. It's a serious mental illness which few people sick treatment for, or allow others to help them get treatment. "only depression" can lead to other serious issues particularly when taking the wrong medication, when there are serious disruptions, such as a divorce and not seeing your family. I would say that Mr. Pogue was clearly not in a healthy state of mind and could have caused loss of life and was likely suicidal. The police did the right thing, as tough as a decision as it was. I hope none of us ever has to watch someone battle "only depression" or live with the consequences of someone who has.

  • Maryquilter Farmington, UT
    Dec. 28, 2010 11:33 a.m.

    My father was the Chief of Police in the southern California community I grew up in. I have a degree in Law Enforcement as well. I was always taught that whenever you have a problem, the policeman is your best friend. Well, thanks to some children who had periods of waywardness, we have had several encounters with law enforcement in the last 10 years; some good, some bad. Hate to admit it, but I don't feel I can always trust the police any more. There are good and bad cops, just like any other professional.

    That being said, I feel the officers acted wisely and promptly in this situation and may very well have saved lives. Kudos to them.

    Personally, I now look at such situations one at a time AFTER the facts are released.

    As an aside, I have written local news media about some of the atrociously uninformed reporters we see on TV here and many from the news desk on camera, as well as those on the scene, sure could use some refresher courses on grammar and preparation for their stories! I never hear back on my comments or suggestions.

  • sledhead Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 28, 2010 10:27 a.m.

    Dr. Tracy, I suffer from depression yet I owned more guns before I was depressed and on meds. than I do now. My wife now suffers from depression and is on meds. also, but guns make her nervous. I also know many others who fight depression and are medicated and don't own any weapons. How do you explain that??? Exactly! You Can't!! Give me a break!!!

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Dec. 28, 2010 9:30 a.m.

    Tom Smith

    How much do you think the cops paid the other witnesses to corraborate their story?

    You obviously have an axe to grind against law enforcement that has absolutely nothing to do with the circumstances of this story.

    It's clear to any impartial observer that the police probably saved several innocent lives through their swift and courageous actions.

  • SyracuseCoug Syracuse, ut
    Dec. 28, 2010 9:27 a.m.

    Tom, obviously you have had a lot of contact with law enforcement, you might want to change your ways and clear up any outstanding warrants.

    And as far as the PR spin on the story, there are witnesses interviewed who have stated that they felt threatened by this guy. These witnesses are not police officers, just people who happened to be there so give it a rest.

  • Tom Smith Sandy, UT
    Dec. 28, 2010 9:10 a.m.

    It is obvious that most responders have had little (if any) contact with Law Enforcement Officers. A Public Relations statement such as this article is strictly meant to disarm public criticism. Law Enforcement personnel are extremely skilled at creating an impression. As far as telling the truth, have you every heard an officer say: "I just want to talk to you" and then physically and verbally demonstrates his superiority and your vulnerability before the shake down and hand cuffs? The whole "Good Cop and Bad Cop" routine is nothing but lies and manipulation. Anyone who believes this store resembles what actually happened is extremely naive. No cop wants the public to believe that they shoot first and ask questions later.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Dec. 28, 2010 8:08 a.m.

    Even if the law allowed it, I doubt the LDS Church would not allow guns in it's churches and temples.

    You don't show up at a Temple with a shotgun for tea and crumpets. It is unfortunate this individual could not get help.

    II highly doubt the officer who shot woke up on Christmas morning looking to take a life.

  • patriotandmore Spanish Fork, UT
    Dec. 28, 2010 7:37 a.m.

    "Daniel M. Pogue, 54, was carrying a shotgun and pointing it at people in the area, said Lt. Dan Starks of the South Jordan Police Department. He also was carrying a machete and chopping at the fence surrounding the building." This man clearly had bad intentions and when confronted by the police, ducked. He knew what he was doing. If he had escaped and anyone injured or killed, many would have castigated the policed dept. They did the right thing. Good work policed dept.

  • JWG Ely, Nevada
    Dec. 28, 2010 1:56 a.m.

    Definitely a good job on the part of the police. However, people were just lucky this time. I am just glad that they happened to be close by to protect these people. I do kind of agree with Blaine in Cedar City: we need to open up areas to people that can legally carry a gun to be able to do so! It makes me feel really uneasy to have to relinquish my firearm to go into certain places -- I am fine with this going into areas where there are police, but cannot see it as being necessary to go into the bank; since this would be a place where you may need to protect yourself!

    Also, I don't know where people get off being anti-Mormon with regards to this ordeal. I am not a Mormon and have no intent to ever become one; but these are still just people, whom have the right to be safe! Everybody has the right to have different beliefs -- I may not agree with them, but this isn't the time nor the place to bring it up! These people's (mental and physical) safety is all that matters!

  • Dante Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2010 1:34 a.m.

    Realizing that newspaper article writers are under time constraints, here are a few typo's or errors in the story:
    Revise 'along the street next to the outer property of the temple,' to:
    'along the street next to the outer periphery [or perimeter] of the temple grounds,"
    Revise to permit the quote marks within quote marks, without the box symbol appearing:
    "He said, 'Go home, the birds are coming. You need to go home. They were here last night. Did you see them?,' " Ashley said. "I had no idea what he was talking about."
    "I said, 'He's running to us, he's coming, we need to leave,' " she said. "I was scared."

    Just trying to be helpful....

  • DrAnnBlakeTracy Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 28, 2010 12:58 a.m.

    Mr. Pogue's wife said he did not suffer from the delusions & paranoia he was suffering when he was shot, but suffering only from depression. Once you add his medication for depression to the mix you get the potential side effects of paranoia (where you tend to collect weapons to protect yourself),

  • K Mchenry, IL
    Dec. 27, 2010 10:30 p.m.

    No one should be happy at this outcome, but not the police to blame. Nor the person holding the gun if he is suffering from a mental condition. Sometimes it is no one's fault. We think we can avoid every tragedy and that is just prideful and naive. Reasonable steps were taken. Excellent law enforcement got there before he shot or another less trained pedestrian present tried to take him down.

    How he got a weapon and weapons is one thing? The care of mental illness in the country could be better. So much we don't know about the mind.

    I don't know why so much anti law enforcement? All articles made it clear he was armed and did not drop it when instructed. That is the reasonable way to handle the situation.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 27, 2010 6:56 p.m.

    It is far better that this gunman died at the hands of the police than if an unknown number of innocent people were gunned down by this deranged gunman.

  • Lyle Springville, UT
    Dec. 27, 2010 5:52 p.m.

    It is a shame that this fellow died at the hands of the police, but really, if some guy is running at me with a loaded shotgun, having already emptied several other weapons after yelling about "the birds", I'm OK with the police using deadly force to stop him.

    Still, I would have loved to have heard him tell his story.

  • ThePinkFloydian Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 27, 2010 5:30 p.m.

    I was amazed by all the insane comments I have seen by anti-gun people on this incident and every time another cop displays true heroism.
    Anti-gun folks always think criminals are not the problem, cops are the problem, guns are the problem. Criminals are just criminals. Poor criminal! Congradulations for figuring this all out. You are geniuses! Saw a couple anti-Mormon commenters sticking up for the gunman also. It figures. Thanks for showing your true colors. I have never seen an anti-Mormon comment that made any sense or had any credibility. Those comments always plague the DN. Thanks for the comic relief

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    Dec. 27, 2010 5:16 p.m.

    Well done cops

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    Dec. 27, 2010 5:16 p.m.

    Thank you to the South Jordan police department for their immediate, effective response, as well as the observant man who called 911.

  • AZRods Maricopa, AZ
    Dec. 27, 2010 4:23 p.m.

    Well sniggy, next time, comment based on facts or perhaps YOU should wait for further details so you don't come across as the cop basher and second guesser of everyone's actions.
    I suggest giving the benefit of the doubt to the police-always, then let the full story come out.
    Which I suspect there is still much more to come from this story.

    And as it turns out, the police did an amazing job in not only responding very quickly it appears, but immediately took control. Wow.
    Can you imagine what another 15 minutes might have resulted in?
    This was truly a disaster in the making.
    Thank you SJPD!

  • Blaine Cedar City, UT
    Dec. 27, 2010 4:22 p.m.

    Who needs a gun for self defense on church property? According to some church and public officials, nobody. A church is a sanctuary, after all -- which even criminals and the insane would surely obey. "Gun-free" zones are, in reality, disarmed-victim zones where only evil-doers and cops carry guns. Fortunately, this time the cops arrived in time. Most times they can't. "Gun-free" zones such as churches, schools, businesses, government property, etc. must be abolished unless adequate security is provided to ensure no criminal attacks on/in that property.

  • SyracuseCoug Syracuse, ut
    Dec. 27, 2010 3:51 p.m.

    As I stated in the other article, good job to the South Jordan PD! This could have been very, very ugly. The man was obviously mentally deranged and very dangerous. Very happy no innocent bystanders were hurt.

  • sniggy Payson, UT
    Dec. 27, 2010 3:38 p.m.

    This article shows facts as to why the man was shot. Now it makes sense.

    Write the story once the facts are in like this one.

  • gmak Spanish Fork, UT
    Dec. 27, 2010 3:37 p.m.

    Well, now, that report answers a lot of questions.
    Good job, police.