Defending the Faith: Daniel Peterson: Gadianton robbers and historical parallels

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  • sharrona layton, Ut
    Nov. 12, 2010 11:59 a.m.

    Bill in Nebraska:
    "Everything that is conducted, built in the LDS Temple has been found or documented in the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Joseph restored all things".?
    Why did the LDS church make several changes to the temple ceremony in 1990, I will not elaborate for censorship reasons on sacred secrets or secret sacreds?
    The Masons and Mormons both think they hold the Melchizedek but.And it says in another place (Psalm 110:4) you are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. During the days of Jesus life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. (Hebrews 5:6,7) Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. Jesus fulfills Davids prophecy from the Old Testamment.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Nov. 12, 2010 10:28 a.m.

    To Mormoncowboy: The problem with your statements is that the freemasons are mentioned in the building of Solomon's Temple. There is enough evidence to suggest that many of the so called ordinances done by the Masonic Lodges are older than the time they were first introduced. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the restored CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. Therefore, Joseph Smith restored these ordinances as they were done in the Temple of Solomon. The ritual of sacrifice is no longer conducted but the other ordinances were all done in Solomon Temple. Everything that is conducted, built in the LDS Temple has been found or documented in the Bible, especially the Old Testament. I'm not going into any more detail. Read the Old Testament and you will find what you want.

    Many of the ordinances are not contained in the Old Testament as they were sacred and not written down. Therefore, someone took a camera in to detail the Temple Endowment it would never have been seen here either. This is the restored church so Joseph Smith restored all things including temple ordinances.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    Nov. 12, 2010 9:23 a.m.

    Bill in Missouri:

    This is the second time this week I have heard someone propogate the absurd and baseless notion that Freemasonry dates back to the builders of Solomons Temple. There is not one shred of evidence to support this notion. The basis of the idea comes from Freemason rituals which adopted a legend of Hiram Abiff, the alleged architect of Solomons temple. Secondly, and let's try and think this through - Solomons temple was an Old Covenant (Testament) temple, meaning its ordinances pertained to the law of Moses. There is absolutely no evidence that the Temple of Solomon catered to the Freemason rituals from which the Nauvoo era LDS temple rituals were derived. And spare the semantics, members of the LDS Church promise not to divulge temple rituals - that's called a secret any way you spin it.

    To The Truth:

    If you use The Book of Mormon as a template for modern conspiracies, then today's secret combinations would also be on both sides of the aisle.

  • Bill in Missouri Maryville, MO
    Nov. 12, 2010 6:50 a.m.

    TO Idaho Coug: I agree in part with what you say but just by the fact that this is the Last Dispensation and Fullness of Times that everything can be linked to the last days before the second coming of Jesus Christ. We have the signs of that coming as spoken by Isaiah, John the Revelator and the clearness of the Doctrine and Covenants. We also have the knowledge that not even the Son knows when it will occurr but the signs give us knowledge of when.

    The Gadianton robbers molested, killed and destroyed the governments. Not everything that happens are members of these robbers. The problem is the people gave rise to them in Book of Mormon times just as we have given rise to them today.

    Street gangs, Al Quieda and others all point to these Gadianton robbers. The rest is just those who want more than their needs and at the expense of all.

    To Sharrona and Mormoncowboy: Yours are probably tied to the LDS Temple ordinances. Again they are not secret but sacred. We just don't describe them. Mormoncowboy if you look through history you will find that freemasons helped to build Solomons Temple.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 6:31 p.m.

    RE: LDS Liberal | 4:34 p.m

    IT sounds like you are decribing Obama's puppetmaster, George Soros,

    or Gore and otheer trying make a whole lot money, and gain a whole lot power with the false notion of man made climate change,

    I would NOT look at wall street and corporations,

    but look organizations who's interest actually is in power and control over others,

    such sas open society,, SDS who organized the violent protests of the '60's, the weather undergroud, al quaeda, most of the communist and socialist groups and organzations, even the unions,

    organzations who want to install their agenda and ideology at expense of everyone else,

    by force if necessary,

    whoe believe they know better and believe "all little people are stupid"

    many leftst organzations are like this, there are many radical leftst organizations whose purpose is become the elitists rulers and dictate to everyone else,

    who write books on insurrection, propaganda,

    books like rules for radicals which is actually dedicated to satan.

    These are the secret combinations of modern times not the walmart's and bp's

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 4:34 p.m.

    Daniel Peterson,

    Another insightful article to be sure, but you still are clinging only to the surface.

    The Gadiantons we've been warned about,
    who "manage" our Government,
    who exist for the purpose to get "gain" $$$,

    is not the drug cartels - they don't want to run a Government.
    It's not the Taliban or Muslims....

    It's Wall Street, Corporations and Bankers.

    Let me ask:

    Who wants wars and bloodshed?
    Who profits from Wars?!!!
    Who profits from bloodshed??!!!
    Who stirs up the hatered in men, to instigate wars from time to time -- all for ths sake of getting "gain"$$$

    These people don't make money from Peace.
    These people don't make money from prosperity.

    They use fear, and hatered for the weak to succom and give them permission.
    Then they use Taxes to fund their deeds - not Capital as normal businesses do.

    He who has the gold, makes the rules.

    Come on....
    Can't you see them?!!!

  • sharrona layton, Ut
    Nov. 11, 2010 10:10 a.m.

    Re: Gadianton robbers and historical parallels.
    "For the Lord worketh not in strange combinations..."BoM(Either 8:19). There were over 20 similarities between Mason temple ceremony and Mormon until 1990 when the LDS church made some changes. They both believe they hold the Melchizedek Priesthood. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus.(1Timothy 2:5)
    I always taught in the synagogues, or at the temple, where all the Jews come together, I said nothing in secret.(John 18:20)

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    Nov. 11, 2010 9:04 a.m.

    Of course, if you accept 19th century origins for The Book of Mormon, considering future or distant political factions doesn't make much sense. Masonry seems like the obvious target, but admittedly the historic Mormon contradiction is a bit confusing. Afterall, on the one hand The Book of Mormon seems to be an indictment against secret organizations with secret words and signs - while historically the Church had quite an affair with Freemasonry - particularly during the Nauvoo period.

    All the same, I don't think we can rule in favor of middle-eastern conspiracies to be the modern day parallels that Moroni tried to warn about. The warnings seem to speek against conspiracies within our own land, infiltrating the government of the people. This parallels many of the popular conspiracies surrounding freemasonry in the 19th century. I think the problem is, anti-freemasonry sentiments are not as prevalent as they once were. Unfortunately, like most things in the Book of Mormon, it is all conjecture with no evidence - so we can see things how we want to, as opposed to yielding any type of definitive explanation.

  • Idaho Coug Meridian, Idaho
    Nov. 11, 2010 8:35 a.m.

    I think there are human behaviors and characteristics that can be found in any culture throughout history. To make too much of them may be minimizing human nature.

    I appreciate the comment made by The Caravan Moves On. But I personally think we are seeing different personal/political philosphies in our government rather than evil intent. I just am not one that sees evil or the last days in everything going on in our world.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Nov. 11, 2010 8:02 a.m.

    I take a broader view of the threat from modern-day Gadianton robbers.

    Just as simple anger or greed is a precursor to murder, I consider a large variety of conspiracies to be baby versions of Gadianton robbers. For example, a group of friends in a neighborhood may begin to shoplift together, perhaps leading to a criminal gang, complete with oaths of secrecy, death threats for disloyalty, and secret signs.

    Any normally benign group has the potential of developing into a gang of such "robbers." Bad political leaders could turn a decent government into a rogue government. Selfish executives could turn a normal business into a parasitic one, conspiring with like-minded businesses to suppress legitimate competitors. A group of West Point cadets who learned to excel through cooperation could commit to aid each other through their subsequent careers, which is great, unless their loyalty to each other's growing power were to surpass their loyalty to their nation. I imagine similar scenarios developing in religion, government bureaucracy, education, sports, scientific, or labor organizations.

    The seed of a robber mentality lies in every pursuit of selfish ends at the expense of others.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    Nov. 11, 2010 7:30 a.m.

    I suggest you and Q12 get on the same page.

  • The Caravan Moves On Enid, OK
    Nov. 11, 2010 7:21 a.m.

    Can there be any doubt that "secret combinations" exist to some degree in our Federal government today?

    People who will do things, say things, promise things and/or provide money to do things that are beneficial to themselves and purposely destructive to others, all while expecting cooperative silence on their plans in order to continue to achieve their goals?

    I'm not saying that high-ranking elected officials (Congressmen, Senators, the President, etc) are being personally visited/tutored by Satan in the Oval Office, but what secret combination is more effective than one in which the leaders of that movement have had their conscience, morals and wisdom deluded to the point where they really DO belive they are doing "goodness" for their fellow man?

    That kind of situation needs no appearance or physical manifestation of an evil spirit to spur them on, they're doing that themselves.

    So take a look at the Federal government.

    Can there be any doubt that there have been secret combinations among us for quite some time?

    God bless America. "Hang by a thread" is right...