Utah Legislature: Voter ID proposal draws debate

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  • Re.: Red @ (Many Times)
    Jan. 27, 2010 2:14 p.m.

    So from reading your posts I conclude that all people, old & young, male & female, bond & free, should never have anything that would be in their way to cast a vote ... they should be able to walk in, pull the lever, no questions asked!

    Of course we could make it easier, lets go door to door & fill out the ballot for them ... no that would interfere with their lives ... why don't we just make a family 'Royalty' & never bother with that pesky & annoying voting thing again.

    By the way, I did look-up some of the ACORN voter fraud cases, ... yeah, they are still investigating a bunch of them & ACORN is dirty as sin ... Would you hire a contractor with as much fraud as them? ... Be honest!

  • Red
    Jan. 27, 2010 10:37 a.m.

    Noexcuse9:55-"If anybody wants to vote, they should be willing to invest the time to meet the requirements."

    Spoken like a charter member of the patent-leather-shoe country-club set.

    Below a certain income threshold, you've gotta choose:

    Invest yer time putting bread on the table, or invest it jumping through hoops so you can vote.

    Of course, that's just the dilemma The Powers intended to create.

    "Let them eat cake!"

  • Red
    Jan. 27, 2010 10:32 a.m.

    Jess8:22-"Since there are those (Acorn, etc.) who would fraudently register voters, ..."

    Thoroughly investigated. Forty-some ACORN investigations, thirty-some closed, the rest pending.

    Upshot: No evidence ACORN tries to fraudulently register voters.


    (They did get dinged in Nevada 'cos their vote-gitters weren't unpaid).

  • Red
    Jan. 27, 2010 10:27 a.m.

    3:51-"Even if you don't drive you can get a passport."

    $96 direct costs. Minimum.

    Time off from work (unpaid if you're hourly) to run down the documentation necessary to apply for a passport.

    Among the possible complications:

    When Granddad needed a passport, it turned out the l'il central Utah town where he was born had no record of his birth. He had to run down a passel of "good men and true" who'd certify they'd known him since childhood.

    Big hassle, eventually resolved.

    When I needed a passport, good ol' Utah couldn't find my birth certificate, either. They finally ran it down-- filed under the wrong date, mother's name spelled wrong, dad's data missing, etc., etc.

    All in all, just 'nuther "Poll Taxy" effort to keep them durn unwashed poor and elderly in their place.

  • Red
    Jan. 27, 2010 10:20 a.m.

    TheRock2:08-"John Fund of the Wall Street Journal has reported ..."

    Did a Google News search with author: John Fund and source: WSJ.

    Seven hits.

    None of them said what you said.

    If this isn't an "urban legend" citation, please give substantiation.


  • REd
    Jan. 27, 2010 10:13 a.m.

    Iveseenthis..1:52-"... liberals promote this type of law because they know it opens up the door for illegal votes."

    Let's see.

    Making it more difficult to vote opens up the doors for illegals.


    Up is down.

    Black is white.

    Slavery is freedom.

    What color is the sky on your planet?

  • No excuse!
    Jan. 27, 2010 9:55 a.m.


    If my mother couldn't vote because she didn't have a picture ID, then I would help her get one. If anybody wants to vote, they should be willing to invest the time to meet the requirements. I don't buy the argument that retired seniors don't have the "time" to get a legitimate ID. Further, if time and the cost is truely a problem, then those who are concerned should establish a non-profit foundation to help these potentially disenfranchized citizens.

    Also, I don't accept the premise that there isn't fraudulent voting taking place. Nobody is doing a thorough verification on who is voting and who may have illegally registered. Why it would be illegal, I can write down any name on a voter registration, register in multiple jurisdictions and vote multiple times and it would be unlikely any body would discover the fraud. Further, many elections have been decided by only a few votes.

    It is interesting that one person has already tried to blame the results of the Massachusetts election on voter fraud. I guess it's only fraud when a Republican and/or conservative unexpectedly wins....

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 27, 2010 4:32 a.m.

    Those cards have Social Security numbers on them. A dropped card and another problem. Idenity theft. Real dumb idea. State ID cards are available to all and more secure. One illegal voting is one too many if it can be stopped. We show ID for everything else in life. They have yet to bring forth 1 person who can not get id who wants to vote.

  • Silva
    Jan. 26, 2010 10:34 p.m.

    If you are voting, and you doubt a persons legal status, you can "challenge" their vote (just state to the judges that you are challenging their vote), requiring further proof, or clarification from the recorders office. Most people are not aware this exists for citizens.

  • Stan
    Jan. 26, 2010 9:06 p.m.

    My Elderly mother has no driver's license and has no other government issued picture ID. She is to old to travel so why have a passport. She has been a registered voter for over sixty years though. She lives in an extended care facility and is very "with it" politically. She couldn't vote last year because she had no picture ID nor a utility bill with her address on it. She needs this bill so she can vote again. She is NOT the illegal person the eagle forum seems to think she could be. Give her and many others in her situation a break eaglets.

  • Jess
    Jan. 26, 2010 8:22 p.m.

    Since there are those (Acorn, etc.) who would fraudently register voters, we need some way to protect the system. One thing that should be done would be to make it a serious crime to be involved in any way with voter fraud. One penalites should include heavy fines and never, ever being able to vote again. Our forefathers fought died for our right to vote. To in any way undermine this sacred right is deplorable.

  • Marketlady
    Jan. 26, 2010 6:15 p.m.

    When I worked for the health department and the motor voter program allowed people to register to vote at any clinic, they only filled out the form and signed it and mailed it in. There was no proof offered that they were citizens. We need a way to verify that people are citizens or they should not be allowed to vote. Period.

  • @Re-Registering
    Jan. 26, 2010 5:47 p.m.

    "There is only one way to let you vote, PROVE THAT YOU ARE A LEGAL CITIZEN OF THE USA."

    Which you do when you *register* to vote. The law (which passed last year) requires you to bring your ID when you actually vote. If you have provided sufficient proof of your citizenship when you registered to vote, why should it necessary to bring a photo ID when you vote?

    Studies have shown that there is no evidence of illegal immigrants attempting to vote in any substantial amount, so this law is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Utah is already among the lowest states for voter turnout; we don't need to be making it more difficult to vote.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 26, 2010 5:12 p.m.

    With the four hour lines at the DMV, it is very difficult for an elderly person to get an ID. The legislature needs to fix the problem that they created. They need to take responsibility. I sometimes think that the some republicans would rather disenfranchise numerous legitimate elderly voters just to stop a few illegal votes. I worry more about computer programmers rigging a vote than I do about illegal immigrants.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 26, 2010 5:09 p.m.

    I wish the Eagle Forum would just leave. They are the most obnoxious-in-your-face-special interest-lobby group in the entire state.

  • Re-Registering
    Jan. 26, 2010 4:50 p.m.

    We moved & this last year to vote I had to get my valid forms of ID to prove I was legal to vote, no problem.

    Even though the lady doing the re-register had been my neighbor for over 10 years, she still had me drive home & get the valid forms of ID.

    To have a legal election, it must be voting by the Citizens of the US ... The Constitution, Amendment 14, Section 1, also Amendment 15, etc.

    There is only one way to let you vote, PROVE THAT YOU ARE A LEGAL CITIZEN OF THE USA.

  • To Ron
    Jan. 26, 2010 4:35 p.m.

    By just letting anyone who shows up vote is an invitation to let people vote multiple times. What is to stop you from going from polling place to polling place and casting multiple votes? Utah currently has a form of same day voter registration which allows your vote to count if you are registered anywhere in the State and can show you live within a given precinct.

  • Boogey Man
    Jan. 26, 2010 4:21 p.m.

    Geez, just what I wanted another right wing conspiracy to get all worked up about. All the illegals are waiting in line to vote in Utah. Sorry, they're to busy working overtime at McDonalds and Daybreak to vote. Or, maybe the republicans just don't want minorities to vote at all.

  • re:digbads
    Jan. 26, 2010 4:10 p.m.

    But what about the people who come vote in your precinct whom the election officials may not recognize? What then?

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 26, 2010 3:51 p.m.

    Even if you don't drive you can get a passport.

  • Digbads
    Jan. 26, 2010 3:39 p.m.

    It seems quite ridiculous to me to show ID to my 4 neighbors who are manning the polling location when I've known all of them for almost 20 years.

    I think the current law is pretty stupid.

    If we are worried about illegals voting here, perhaps we should be more worried about illegals BEING here.

  • Jim
    Jan. 26, 2010 3:29 p.m.

    With all the fraud being perpetrated by citizens and representatives of the goverment it seems we almost need to have some form of photo ID. Let alone the occasional undocumented alien who thinks he should vote.

  • Red
    Jan. 26, 2010 3:28 p.m.

    Enact...2:15-"There is no excuse for citizens not to have a valid picture ID."

    Spoken like an upper-class citizen "blessed" with a tin ear.

    A couple of excuses:



    Enact-"If a non-citizen votes, ..."

    This just doesn't happen.

    Retail voter fraud is a sucker's game, anyway; I recall reading there've been about 40 allegations of such in the last several decades.

    Just as employee theft causes a lot more "shrinkage" than light-fingered shoppers, in voting it's the "inside jobs" that we need to worry about.

    Like the entire precincts that voted for LBJ, showing up to vote in the order they were entered in the registration book.

    Like the Repbulican mafia of Clay County, Kentucky, who fixed elections for decades without any recourse to fraudulent voters.

    Like the easily-hacked voting machines that have no audit trail (used to great effect by the Clay County gang, and also a staple in the recent Massachusetts vote-- where exit polls were suspiciously off in many locations).

  • Maybe the U.S. Government
    Jan. 26, 2010 3:15 p.m.

    should look into issuing photo ID's to all LEGAL citizens, no matter their age. Anyone who wants one could get one. It might even be a good idea for children in the event they become lost - a photo ID to renew every year and to use as identification. Yes.

  • cbird
    Jan. 26, 2010 2:41 p.m.

    Doesn't the GOP rule up there? If they want to make a law they will do it with or without objection. That is the way they roll.

  • Enact Stringent Penalties
    Jan. 26, 2010 2:15 p.m.

    There is no excuse for citizens not to have a valid picture ID. If the ACLU is so concerned about the few that for some reason have been "missed", then it should expend some of its resources to rectify the situation. In reality, this is a "red-herring". There is far more evidence of non-citizens and fraudulent voting, than there is of seniors who can't present a legitimate photo ID.

    If a non-citizen votes, it should result in immediate deportation and prohibition from ever entering this country again.

  • The Rock
    Jan. 26, 2010 2:08 p.m.

    John Fund of the Wall Street Journal has reported the congress is planning to introduce something known as Universal Voter Registration. This would require the states to register everyone who appears on any list controlled by the state.
    Welfare Lists
    Drivers license Lists
    Property tax lists
    Prisoner Lists

    If you own 3 homes and have a drivers license and have 3 cars registered with the state, you would be registered to vote 7 times.
    This would come out just before the elections so there would not be time to purge the duplicates. These lists also include illegal aliens.

    ACORN's mode of operation is to dump thousands of registration forms on the government too close to the election to eliminate illegal voters.

    This is just more of the same. When Democrats can't win an election they change the rules.
    I live in Seattle. We got saddled with a lousy governor who has driven us billions into debt by increasing state spending by 17% a year in the good years.

  • The local senior center...
    Jan. 26, 2010 1:56 p.m.

    could step in and help everyone in that community get a State-issued ID card. What would happen if some law enforcer was to stop grandma or grandpa and require proof of who they are, and they are unable to do so?

    It is not an inconvenience to show an ID, proving that you are who you say you are, when you have the privilege to go and cast a vote.

    The only people that are complaining about having to show an ID, are the ones that try to game the system.

  • I've seen this before...
    Jan. 26, 2010 1:52 p.m.

    Across the nation liberals promote this type of law because they know it opens up the door for illegal votes. This is a very old tactic. They use the elderly or others as shields for their motives.

    Their next step is to allow any votes if the voter shows up with a utility bill with their name on it. Then they make judge officals determine if the vote is valid after the fact. That burden is too great and thousands of illegal votes are cast.

    Once again progressive means deceptive.

  • Eagle Forum
    Jan. 26, 2010 1:21 p.m.

    Dear Anonymous:

    If you'd ever spent any time up at the Capitol during a legislative session, you'd know for sure that the Eagle Forum ladies do indeed "just hang out" there and make dumb comments. Gayle Ruzika (and her endless knitting projects) are a permanent fixture in the legislative hearing rooms.

  • RE: Anonymous
    Jan. 26, 2010 1:20 p.m.

    Yep, they are right there next to the ACLU, gay rights advocates, and environmentalists on the front lawn of the Capital building. If we get rid of the Eagle Forum, does that mean we can get rid of all the other trash that lobbies the legislature?

  • Ron
    Jan. 26, 2010 1:19 p.m.

    Reality should be that ANY person could show up at a polling place and vote in ANY election without having to register or anything, and simply show a drivers license to do so. Unfortunately, the powers that be are horrified at that idea, because the masses just might all show up and vote and they couldn't control the vote any longer. o they will continue to put as many obstacles and barriers in place as possible to ensure a minimum of people vote (while publicly making much ado about how few seem to) to ensure they can retain control of the country. Voting is a farce, and if anyone thinks they have any power by voting, or that we the people is little more than words, I have some beach front property in Arizona to show you. We are just sheep to clip regularly, and toss a bone to on occasion, but we control nothing...

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 26, 2010 1:05 p.m.

    Does the Eagle forum just hang out during legislative sessions so they can comment stupidly on every piece of legislation that is going through the pipeline?