Congratulations on being in Oxford. I know Ole Miss has a very good
school....But seriously, both schools are very good, but not great.
Each have their colleges that are nationally recognized. The Marriott School of
Management is extremely well-respected, but BYU as a whole is solid, but not
nearly as well thought of.Regardless, students graduating from
either university can do well in the world. Both schools have alumni that have
gone on to greatness.How did we get onto this on a sports thread
I am sure the 2 extra years helps make BYU offensive linemen better players. I
just wish they could also lose 50lbs of fat off some of their bellys. Nothing
wrong with strong and moble players.As regards comments made about
Utahs 4 4star recruits coming this week, I am sure they will do well with this
group. They should get at least 2 of the 4. (V J Feko, Heimuli) They have set
a record this year for "decommits" (8-9) so these will be nice upgrades for the
onces they lost. Good for Utah.I wonder how that will affect their
efforts in TX in the future.
I don't like feeding trolls, but what the hey. I'm a BYU grad currently
studying for a masters in economics at Oxford. When I first arrived, the head
of the department said in my interview that he expected "great things" from me,
since I came from BYU. His favorite economist, Lant Pritchett, is a BYU grad.
The only other americans in my course come from Ivy league schools.Cougars do just fine in the real world.
Remember when Andrew George caught that TD pass against the U...that was
Big weekend for Ute recruiting as four, 4 star recruites take a visit.DT Ricky Heimuli OL John CollenS Eric DreganLB V.J
FekoAlso hearing rumors that the Utes might announce today that
Lucky Radley (RB), has verbally agreed. Radley had offers to UCLA and North
I have degrees from both Utah and BYU. I have lived outside of the
intermountain area for the last fifteen years. This is how I see things:Both BYU and Utah provide sound educations, and both have colleges that
are well respected on a national level. But neither is viewed by third parties
as "outstanding univeristies." For example, US News and World Report ranks BYU
71, and Utah 126. Sure, this publication may have some bias (they/we probably
all do), but the term "Harvard of the West" when referencing BYU is probably
only spoken by BYU graduates and/or Mormons.Second, it is
advantageous to have returned missionaries on you team, as long as the coaching
staff/program understand how to treat them. Transitioning from mission life to
"the real world" takes time. If coaches are patient, they benefit by having
more physically and mentally mature athletes. It's like having a three year
redshirt. It is legal, and both teams have benefited greatly from it.Skill position players benefit as well. NFL receivers are at their peaks in
their late twenties. None of them say, "you think I'm good now, you should have
seen me at 22!"
Wow, thank you for speaking so accurately and truthfully. Your comment was from
"the usual inane comments," and sure enough you made the usual inane comments!
It's ignorant to criticize the quality of BYU's (or Utah's for that matter)
undergraduate programs, but I suspect the orginal comment was intended to get a
rise out of folks like me rather than based on any real experience with a
"fortune 50" company.Still, to add my perspective...I work for a
top-tier consulting company in Texas (than consults to Fortune 50 & 500
companies) that only hires top students from a select group of schools each
year. Those schools? Rice, Vanderbilt, UT-Austin, WashU (St.
Louis), and BYU. Not bad company to keep, and BYU grads do more than hold their
own.In addition, it's rare that I don't find several BYU alums
working for our clients. While I'm sure that Fresno State is a fine
institution, I don't remember ever meeting a client that is an alum.
Apparently you are also not smart enough to realize that BYU played Florida
State, not Florida. Kidding aside, BYU's offensive linemen are ideal size for a
passing team. Florida State's defense wasn't stellar against BYU. The problem
in that game was that BYU's defense was much LESS stellar's than FSU's.
Ask former defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey of LSU what it's like being fat and
slow. He was on the defensive side of the ball where lineman need to be faster.
His gut was humongous and he was an All-American playing in the SEC.Don't be so ignorant. Lineman ALL OVER THE LEAGUE have guts hanging out. But
it doesn't mean the big guys can't carry their weight. BYU has a very solid
offensive line. I challenge you to find another offensive line in college
football that is light years better. Ask the University of Utah's "elite
offensive line" how they fared against BYU's "slow" defensive front. They got
their butts handed to them.
I was a mediocre engineering student at BYU. I recieved many offers. All of
which were outside of Utah. If I had accepted all of the final interviews
offered me, I would have missed most of my final semester. The offer I accepted
paid me to get a Texas A&M MBA. Not only did they pay for my schooling, but
they gave me a competitive salary and no other duties until I graduated. 3
years after graduating I'll be making a 6 figure income with a month of vacation
time per year. I am also doing work that matters and saves lives on a daily
basis.Non bad for a fake school.
I have a question regarding BYU and the linemen. I watch most of the games and I
compare the line of both teams and curious about the size. I see BYU players
with very large stomachs which in the outside world would be considered as being
obese. I looked at TCU and some are large but most are not obese but I see no
big over-hanging stomachs. I see speed in the TCU players and slower BYU
players. I am just curious as to why the BYU players are so big and slow
compared to other teams. This was evident when they played Florida and TCU.
Florida made comments in their local paper that they could beat the BYU line by
slants and speed. They did. It would be nice to hear from the coaches as to what
the benefit is to have a slow obese lineman against teams such as TCU and
Florida. I am not smart enough to see it I guess.
Go wild? You must be joking. Missionaries sacrifice 2 years of their lives and
work VERY HARD. Missionary service is a 24 hour a day job. Missionaries who do
their service correctly work for that amount of time. Going wild might be what
you get to do on weekends, but there are no days off in missionary service (even
preparation days are days meant to prepare for the rest of the week).
Because they are usually married by the time they finish college...
I graduated from BYU almost 30 years ago with a degree in Mechanical Engineering
and have worked outside of Utah, primarily in the Southeast, since then. I have
worked for three Fortune 50 companies and am now President/CEO of a smaller
company. With that said, I will state emphatically that either you are lying
about your experience or you are allowing your hate for BYU and/or Mormons to
cloud your vision. BYU is HIGHLY respected outside of Utah and my BYU degree has
opened doors for me that would never have been opened had I went to Fresno
State, as you suggest. If you worked for me with the attitude that
you display here then I would fire you! You obviously should not be in any
position of leadership or responsibility.Advice to BYU grads... seek
employment where ever you desire. The world is not as judgmental as this person.
Let's see. "Anonymous." Can't spell, biased and bigotted..."hiring manager for
a fortune 50 company"? Maybe he meant a Fortune 500 company? Maybe on a day
off? Surely he's not surfing the web and typing messages on a web board on
company time.I'm betting a wet-behind-the-ears freshman at some
no-name college up north.
What a dumb statement. BYU is very highly regarded throughout the country and
world as being a top university. I would be shocked if any top company, even
yours, does not have several BYU grads in leadership positions. If you don't
like BYU athletics that is one thing, but be critical the education one receives
at the Y is just plain stupid.
My suggestion is that if you are planning to leave for two plus year mission and
expecting to be welcomed back with “open arms” it’s probably
best you just go to YbU. No other coach really wants that kinda mental and
physical baggage.And Yes, the reason why YbU linemen are overweight
and sloppy is because of they disconnect from football and go wild for 24
You: I for one don't accuse the Cougars of having an UNFAIR advantage, but it is
an advantage.Me: I am not from Utah, but the defensiveness wrt
complaints about age are mostly connected with assumptions from the critics that
the mission is a physical advantage. I think most will concede that it can be a
mental and emotional advantage, but there is as much or more evidence that it is
a physical DISadvantage than it is an advantage, especially when you look at
skill players.So many lineman have become injury prone upon return
(Speredon, Bright, H Reynolds, etc). Many balloon in weight while others shrink.
Physical/conditioning advantage? No.Mental and emotional
High School Recruits and Parents take note:Advantage or not, outside
of BYU and maybe Utah, Mission Service is not encouraged by College Coaches.Take note of some Recruits that originally intended to serve Missions
that chose to attend BCS Schools :Havili (USC), Ngata (Oregon), Teo
(Notre Dame), many others...Certainly there have been some players
at other Schools that have served Missions, but in general, those Coaches are
going to pressure the Athlete NOT to serve a Mission.There are many
GREAT Persons who did not serve Missions. However, if a Mission is important to
these Recruits, they really need to look long and hard at the reality of the
situation. No matter what the Coach/Recruiter may say, these Schools don't
really want the Athlete to serve a Mission.
A BYU degree cares no more weight than say a Fresno State degree outside the
state of Utah. I know LDS support their own but trust me, as a hiring manager
for a fortune 50 company, I'd pick many other schools over the Y.Advice to BYU grads... seek employment in Provo.
Serving a 2-year LDS mission is never a disadvantage. What is the down side to
serving other people full-time for 2-years at your own expense? You learn all
of the values that people constantly call out for, i.e., selflessness, charity,
humility, maturity, spirituality, emotional stability, etc., etc., It is very rare to find people who have served honorable full-time missions
who regret their decision to serve. While on the other hand, there are many who
decide not to go who regret it.While it may seemingly delay a
college graduation or professional job, in the long run, it is never a
It's too bad you have no idea of what you are talking about.Majerus
had some issues but to say that he didn't understand the missionary issue is
crazy. Look at his team that he took to the finals - it was loaded with
returned missionaries - infact at the time our team had more returned
missionaries than the y - should that matter to anyone.Don't forget
Majerus won 9 straight conference titles and put a good number of players into
the NBA. As good as the y has become, who do they have playing in the NBA??Oh and by the way Ute fans don't say that Max Hall doesn't have talent -
you can't win that many games without talent - we just think he is a DB - that's
From Good Question: "That's only true for BYU and Utah diplomas, when you go to
a REAL school you have a real JOB lined up when you graduate."HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Don't know too many people that have graduated from the
U, but everybody I know out of the Y has had an easy time finding a job -
usually multiple offers. The business and accounting programs are top-notch.
Engineering is also excellent. Most programs are very well respected.I know an 18-year old with a 3.5 GPA and a 31 on the ACT. He doesn't think
he'll even be able to get into BYU. I'd love to hear what "real school" you
went to. Unless it's Harvard or Cal Tech (or one of such schools), you've got
no room to talk.
I was impressed how the BYU O-line improved during the season. They may be big,
but they still can move. Terence Brown is around 350 lbs. and is very agile for
a player that size and he was only a sophomore. They stepped up when there were
injuries. It is nice they had players who filled in when the starters were
injured. I think Coach Weber did a great job understanding how to use the
returned missionaries. With Reynolds and Brown returning, it should be a strong
O-Line. The only question is who is going to play center. I know last year
Terence Brown experimented playing center. Can you imagine a 6 "4 350 lbs
playing center? I hope the O-line continues to improve on size as well as
quickness. They will need it with a new quarterback.
Britton Johnson didn't succeed for two reasons. #1- He went to the U, #2-
Majerass was his coach. And Majerass didn't know, understand, nor care to
understand what going on a mission meant and how he should handle it in regard
to how it affected his players. And it was too bad because Britton was one of
the best basketball players this state has produced. So what if he went to the
final two with the U. Any questions? The Y Basketball team is
kicking butt with several returned missionaries contributing a lot to their
Is it just me or does a mission seem to have more of a negative effect on
basketball players than football players? Weber and the o-line deserve
accolades. Many, including myself, thought the 2009 offensive line would be a
team weakness. They turned out to be a team strength. Most of them will be
back in 2010 to help out our green QB's.
The more successful Utes & cougars in the pros are found along both offensive
and defensive lines. As for skill positions, currently, advantage:
Utes... Weddle in San Diego and Sean Smith in Miami.
"Why not after college when these guys have nothing else to do?"That's only true for BYU and Utah diplomas, when you go to a REAL school you
have a real JOB lined up when you graduate.
1. I think the advantage of a mission is often a DELAYED advantage. Most RMs
need a season back to get to their pre-mission level. Many suffer injuries
related to their time off. As this article stated, BYU has learned how to
effectively manage RMs to turn it into an advantage. It is NOT an advantage in
and of itself which is why other coaches don't do it. BYU has no choice.
Missions are encouraged for every young man including athletes. It was a learn
to make it work or don't coach here situation.2. Max Hall is very
much in an Austin Collie situation. He needs to find the right fit. As the ESPN
piece correctly pointed out, he could be a nice backup in a system that values
his accuracy and gym rat mentality. But he is not a guy who can just step into
any system and succeed. Collie would be the 10th receiver on a team like the
Raiders who value only speed. He landed on the perfect team with the perfect QB
for his skill set. Hall will need to find the same type of situation. Go Cougs!!
Seems that linemen may do better after their missions. Skill players almost
invariable do worse.From the article: "He'd convinced freshman LDS
linebacker Manti Teo not to go on a mission after the season."Is
anybody really surprised? I bet it didn't take much convincing.From
Anonymous: "Why the pressure to go on a mission right out of high school? Why
not after college when these guys have nothing else to do?"The main
reason is that's what the church has asked of us. We do it because we think
it's the right thing to do. Really, though, there are a lot of advantages. HS
graduates are pretty immature. 2 years of service does wonders for a kid. By
the time you graduate from college, it's time to get to work and to have a
family. 19 is the perfect age for a mission.
RE: Anonymous "Why the pressure to go on a mission right out of high school? Why
not after college when these guys have nothing else to do?" This is
a simple answer and it is your second statement that is wrong. After college
your married, supporting a wife and kids. If you dont get married while in
college and you finish a college degree and then go on a two year mission and
come back what do you tell an employer? "I finished my dregree 2 years ago I
have no experance and I've forgotten most the stuff I was taught." 19 is a good
age to go before life gets to busy. I've been out of college of 20 years and
just gets faster and faster.
Young men are encouraged to serve when the become eligible at age 19 because
other things will often crowd the mission out if they don't go right away. A
lot of well intentioned Mormons don't serve missions because they "will go next
I can't wait to read about all the upcoming options for the Utes. Oh wait...
Being new to the state and not LDS, I have a question; Why the pressure to go
on a mission right out of high school? Why not after college when these guys
have nothing else to do?
MAX HALL WILL BE DRAFTED.....in the CFL.
And neither did Bryan Johnson.
Big-Time schools use a thing called a "Red Shirt" to get the linemen another
year of age and strength. This allows the kid to then have 5 years of college
instead of 4.THAT's how REAL colleges do it. PS a 7th
round draft doesn't get you much (in pay, in guarantees, or spot on the roster)
Good luck to Max 'the Hater' he'll need it to ever cash a real NFL check.
Take the lead on one of your own coaches, Cougar fans. Quit being so defensive
when people outside Utah County claim that BYU benefits from having older
players on their teams. I for one don't accuse the Cougars of having an UNFAIR
advantage, but it is an advantage.Look at the top male performers
among world-class athletes in every sport. They are in their late twenties to
early thirties. Most of them are physically stronger than they were in their
early twenties, they have more competitive and life experience, and are mentally
and emotionally more mature. The continue to benefit from the non-physical
aspects as they age, but injuries and declining physical abilities become
handicaps.As to "then why don't other programs encourage their
athletes to go to the Peace Corps for a few years," that's thinking too far
outside of the box for most coaches. They tend to have the "a bird in the hand
is better than two in the bush" mentality. They have a familiar system , a
don't want to risk losing their athletes. Plus, it would be a pretty hard sell
to the typical athlete...
So, if it's such a huge advantage to have players who are older then why aren't
all the big-time football schools sending their players to do charitable work
overseas for a couple of years for the Red Cross or something like that?Oops.On another note, Max Hall haters, I just saw an ESPN
video clip on the East-West shrine game in which they were predicting Max Hall
to be a 5th to 7th round draft choice who would make a good backup QB for a
while and possibly start a couple of years down the road like Jeff Garcia.Yeah, just remember, yewties, Max Hall has nooooo talent.
As per usual, the comments are lame.
let's not start the NC talk already. You'll jinx us!
None of the comments on this article have been authored by writers from Deseret
News. A comment claiming to be by the author has been removed.
Imagine how good the Y would be if they could get 4 and 5 star WR and RB and
CBs, they would win the NC almost every year since the Y holds it own with these
old white lineman playing on offense
If it is such a huge advantage, why isn't every program in the country trying to
get their players to join the Peace Corps for two years. Also, it is against
team rules on several teams (Michigan being one) for players to be married. I
think anonymous 3:53 hit it on the head. For some it works, for others it
doesn't. Overall I think it is a disadvantage except maybe the O-line where size
and maturity are key rather than speed and quickness.
When the Cougars win it's because of returned missionaries and when they lose
it's because of returned missionaries. Critics of BYU are only active when the
Cougs are on top. Let's talk about something else.
Majerus didn't handle returned missionaries with they same kind of understanding
that is needed for great success. Weber is right. It is in learning how to
handle the missions. Some coaches and players do it better than others.
Very glad to have Jerry Hughes in the NFL. Jake and Riley had better take these
very big and nice guys to dinner. Unga must be happy, too.
I actually think it's a dis-advantage for some players and an advantage for
others. Some guys come back from Missions and are never the same.
Some come back and (once in game shape) are better. Britton Johnson
was never the same basketball player after he came back. Brandon Doman(Go
9ers!) seemed become a better QB (to me) after he came back. It's hit or
miss.Bigger, (sometimes) more mature linemen are nice to have but I
think this article blows it a bit out of proportion.
These guys deserve a lot more credit then they have gotten. They are only going
to be better this year. Can't wait. Go Cougars!!