BYU football: School says Hall incident has been resolved

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  • Anonymous
    Dec. 3, 2009 5:07 p.m.

    I am a HUGE BYU fan. I think that Hall should be benched for at least part, if not all of the bowl game. If it costs them the game, thats sad, but I think it is the right thing to do

    He didn't do anything but speak his opinion, which we are all allowed to do (free speech). He didn't do anything to be benched for

  • Bench him
    Dec. 3, 2009 3:46 p.m.

    I am a HUGE BYU fan. I think that Hall should be benched for at least part, if not all of the bowl game. If it costs them the game, thats sad, but I think it is the right thing to do.

  • The main thing I learned...
    Dec. 3, 2009 11:20 a.m.

    from attending both schools was that both have great traditions and athletics. Most fans of both schools are decent people. The failings of a group of Utah fans have been well described here, but aside from the beer, I've seen everything else (extremely poor sportsmanship, physically threatening behavior and all manner of foul language) from BYU fans, even at LES.

    Some self-righteous BYU fans seem to think their team is superior on the basis of religion or that they the fans themselves are somehow more pure because of the strict rules at BYU. Some even think that their sports success proves the truth of the LDS church. Years ago while attending BYU, I remember following two Cougars who were discussing their recent loss in football as a call to repentance from God. This attitude is unjustified and offensive: it's sports, not religion.

    Bad behavior like Hall's prove this sense of superiority is bunk. Root for the team you like, but behave yourself and don't feel superior based on religion or perceived morality. There isn't a lick of difference between the behavior of the bad fans from any particular school.

  • I guess it's all talk
    Dec. 2, 2009 8:06 p.m.

    All I've heard since moving to Utah is how the morals, standards, and values of BYU are "higher" than ANY other college in the nation. I guess those are just words. Either that or there are two sets of standards; those for the LDS faithful at BYU and those for everyone else!!
    If Bronco was serious about building men and not just football players he would sit Hall for at least the first half of the bowl game.
    If not, everything else is just lip service!!!!

  • Hall, the silver tongued devil
    Dec. 2, 2009 7:41 p.m.

    will take BYU all the way to a NC!!!!

  • David in New York.
    Dec. 2, 2009 5:19 p.m.

    What do you people expect? Kick him out of school? What? What do you want? Drop it. He doesn't like the U and he doesn't have to like them. It's a "rivalry". Remember? End of story.

  • lackluster career punishment ..
    Dec. 2, 2009 10:01 a.m.

    how would he not be frustrated? he won the game and yet over his career Utah has been the story. what has byu done in the last 4 years? what has utah done? yeah, win or lose he is a sidenote in the mountain west conference. NO NEED FOR HARCH WORDS, come draft day lets see how frustrated he is :) congrats max! on a bad game(but win) and a "successful" career that earned you... nothing significant. ps- thanks for the fuel for our drunken ute fires before next seasons games.

  • Re:College Football
    Dec. 2, 2009 8:55 a.m.

    Last year the MWC #1 team beat the SEC # 2 team. Big deal. Alabama lost interest after they lost in the SEC championship game. No way TCU, BYU, or Utah can play with Floida.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 2, 2009 8:43 a.m.

    What some of you don't understand is that not all of the byu fans are LDS and not all of the Ute fans are non- LDS. And just incase some of you didn't know, the LDS Church built both schools.

  • Hall's comments
    Dec. 2, 2009 1:11 a.m.

    Hall's comments and the Ute fans' responses make me laugh. I truly can't believe how many people are offended by this! You Utah fans pay Max the greatest honor ... you truly care what he thinks about you. You care that he doesn't like you. I can't believe you even care.

    I'm a cougar fan and a season ticket holder for over 30 yrs. I couldn't care less what any ute fan, player, or coach thought or said about BYU. If I valued their opinion, I'd care but I don't. Morgan Scalley called BYU players a foul term on national television in 2004. Was there the same uproar ? No ... no one cared. Expect to be disliked by your opponents ... it's normal.

    If you disagree with his comments, prove him wrong and show everyone how classy Ute fans are otherwise live with it maybe you are classless.

  • edw
    Dec. 2, 2009 1:00 a.m.

    BYU is a great school. The vast majority of faculty and students are not hypocrites, but rather good people trying to make the world a better place. I won't say there is no studentbody as good, just that there is none better.

    And yet, we are not good enough. How we compare to other schools is irrelevant. How we compare to our ideal christian selves is.

    Diehard fans might hate this idea, but what if whenever the Utes made a great play the Y fans cheered them. What if all comments from the stands were positive, no booing. What if after the game, win or lose, the Y fans smiled, shook Ute hands, and congratulated them on a well-played game?

    Those associated with the Y are human, aren't perfect, shouldn't be expected to be perfect. But we shouldn't be satisfied with being in line with other schools, conferences, bigtime rivalries. Instead we should only be satisfied when we are in line with the One we profess to follow.

    Even during the heat of competition.

    Acting this way we might lose a few games, but we would win something far more important.

  • Christians???
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:40 p.m.

    I too, am an out of state transplant. I have never heard so many people who call themselves Christain froth at them mouth in venomous hate, unwilling to forgive. Who can know what is in Mr. Hall's heart? I know what jesus would do. "Go thy way and sin no more". "Let he without sin cast the first stone".

    To the University of Utah Fans, Administration, Coaching Staff, and Players, how many time did you hear of Christ looking to someone with an admission of guilt, an apology, and did he once say "No Comment".

    I suggest everyone of you who love the sin and hate the sinner, look inside yourself and think of the last time you wished you could take something said back. Treat Mr. Hall the way you would be treated. I watched the game, I have read the comments, I saw all of the personal fouls called (My HS football coach told us every PF was the coaches fault for not teaching the players control).

    Lose the no comment, the hate, the pain of losing, and get on with your lives.

  • Cougars Fan
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:37 p.m.

    Max apologized and thats really all he can do, he cant take back the words he said. But at least he came out with an apology, we need to accept it, forgive him and move on from this.

  • Bass Master
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:19 p.m.

    Funny thing is, Ernest T. was the only in the country who thought Max was going to win the Heisman.

  • Matter is Resolved
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:19 p.m.

    BYU is right.

    This matter is resolved. There really isn't any mystery here.

    We all know what Max said.
    We all know that Max didn't mean to hate as broadly as he said, only to hate a smaller category of people.
    We now know that BYU believes that such conduct comports with its standards.
    We now know that when BYU holds itself out as a higher moral institution, when it comes to sports, it isn't true.
    We know that many BYU fans think that Max's hate speech was laudable and fully justified.

    Being an out of state transplant and not acquainted with BYU, I now feel that I have know that institution and at least some of its fans a little bit better.

  • rdha
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:01 p.m.

    Whatever Max Hall said about the U of U, it will haunt him for a long time and he's sure learning the hard way. Like what Kanye West said to Taylor Swift at the MTV VMA Awards this year. Well, good lessons to be learned from stuff like this.

  • Steve
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:45 p.m.

    Max said what every hardcore true BYU fan feels about Utah,it just adds the to the rivalry. Everyone get over it and move on,Can't wait until next year!!

  • Time to move on!
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:32 p.m.

    'nuf said.

  • Ernest T. Bass
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:06 p.m.

    This is such a shame. I really think this will cost Max Hall the Heisman Trophy this year.

  • Haters
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:51 p.m.

    When this blows over, I think that next year, the Classy Utah fans will be a little more willing to step in and stop the actions of the classless Ute fans. If that happens, RES will become a place where it's safe to take kids to watch a football game again.

    In the long run, a man who speaks the truth brings honor to his family, and maybe a better RES to be enjoyed by all.

    All of the negative haters refuse to let this die, because they do not want to see the hate leave.

    I forgive Max, he did not embarass me. A Bishop would never claim Max offended 95% of the LDS faith, that they talked about it during tithing settlement.

    You haters keep hating, but I believe in the long run, the class from the fanbase of both schools will run you out of the stadiums. Classless fans at both schools are no longer wanted.

  • Robert - St. George
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:30 p.m.

    I am a big BYU fan and will support them always, but as far as Max Hall and this horrible incident going away I am afraid that is the furthest from the truth. This will be around for a very long time. I pitty the Cougars next year in Salt Lake City. That will be a crushing nightmare I am afraid. Max moves on, BYU stays and suffers a lot of the consequences that has been handed to them. Not fair, and I hope Max is happy. I think he has caused more torture on future BYU fans and vice versa.

  • Honor Code
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:29 p.m.

    Hall violated the BYU honor code, and in doing so he brings dishonor to himself, his family, BYU, and the LDS church.

    The only way to restore that honor is to hold him accountable for his violation. Clearly, this won't happen, and so the dishonor will hang over him, his family, BYU, and the LDS church forever.

  • UGLY side of sports
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:27 p.m.

    The UGLY side of sports came to light Saturday, namely Utah's fans despicable behavior last year and Hall refusal to let it go.

  • Same ole same ole
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:55 p.m.

    Back in the late 70's a BYU player hit a referee in Logan at a USU/BYU game.

    The WAC suspended the player but BYU did nothing.

    I guess they think their players are always correct and above the so called "honor code".

    History has a sad way of repeating itself.

  • Who next week
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:41 p.m.

    Jorgensen repremanded last week, Hall this week. Wonder who will be next week. And Bronco says Max spoke his heart. There is a lot of hate in the heart!

  • TallCoolLisa
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:51 p.m.

    TO: BYU MORALS wrt "You won't see this at TCU" etc.

    I beg to disagree. We have tickets right behind the TCU bench and several of their players were rude and vulgar and taunting to the crowd early in the first quarter, including the "$5" swear words. They were completely unprovoked, and mostly ignored by the other players and coaching staff.

    What Max said is disappointing, true or not. No fans at any school are perfect, some some are clearly worse than others. We travel with the women's basketball team a lot and I'm amazed at how rude other fans can be, but we've been treated more rudely at Utah than any other school.

    Sadly, whether it's Utah or Michigan or TCU, OR BYU, this deplorable behavior is a reflection of the demise of moral character and integrity in general.

  • Arizona Dave
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:46 p.m.

    One last word on the Hall thing. Everyone one in the west knows that Utah fans and supports hate BYU.
    BYU fans and supports hate Utah. I will never change so just move on.

  • Who Cares?
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:17 p.m.

    You are all losers. Go get a life. Help a neighbor in need. Serve the poor. Do something with your life other than selfishly take some football player's comments personal like it impacts your life in some way. With people starving & dying of disease in the world it is a sad state of affairs that people take a silly game so seriously.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:10 p.m.

    I personally think that we need to just let it go. He was perfectly justified in saying that--look at what U of U did to his family! He has apologized, he feels sorry. Please remember that BYU isn't perfect and that they make mistakes too. They're only human!

  • ENOUGH!!!!
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:57 p.m.

    I am so sick of this story, he screwed up, acted immature, and apologized. Can we PLEASE move on?

  • Pat
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:53 p.m.

    It seems to me that there is a double standard here. Because BYU is a church owned school, they are held to a higher standard than others. That is how it should be. However, while there are some great people who attend the University of Utah, there are some who behave so very lowly that they truly have no shame. I have never seen anywhere people who behave so scummy and who make me feel embarrassed that they are from my home state. I would like to know if there are some types of checks out there for them. They really do not belong in society unless they have some types of standards of behavior.

  • Prayer
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:39 p.m.

    I'm sure Max led the team in prayer before the game and asked to kick those darn classless Utes right out of the city and shame them forever by beating them. Amen. Proof of the more rightious side clearly.

    I don't want my daughter to get into BYU anymore. I just told her not to worry about finishing her homework today. I know what to expect from ASU - not so much from BYU.

  • @Nice Job Max
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:31 p.m.

    That's one big ward if it represents 95% of LDS in Utah. Let's not OVERESTIMATE! I'm sure 95% of LDS Utah fans are embarrassed. I would be to if my fellow fans were as classess as yours.
    Hall's only mistake was to include the entire University and it's entire fan base. His comments directed at the specific people were absolutely spot on. (Cue the Ute fans justifying their behavior)
    Utah has been classless for years and it's about time someone called them out.

  • to: To Huh @ 2:55 pm | 3:59 p.m.
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:30 p.m.

    "If his story is true, it's an outrageous and terrible thing those Utah fans did, but they got escorted out by police! "

    What do mean IF in a sentence where you state they DID?

    Also Hall got repremanded - do you want some other form of vengence?
    Is that what this is really about for you?

  • Why
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:29 p.m.

    doesn't the Y at least say they don't condone or endorse these comments? Interesting attitude being taught to young minds down there...

  • Re: Re: Re: Disappointed
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:26 p.m.

    If he made his comments before the game, then it becomes bulletin board material and then it becomes a selfish act, putting himself and his comments before the team. I don't like what he said but I'm glad he waited til after the game to say it.

  • re: To Huh @ 2:55 pm | 3:59 p.m
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:24 p.m.

    As was stated: he said something, he apologized, if you don't accept it,IT IS NOW YOUR PROBLEM

  • Re: Deaner Boveaner
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:14 p.m.

    A farce says you? Who are you? We have a nice little trophy representing such a title, bestowed by the coaches and sporswriters as consensus national champions (no split title like 1990, 1991, 1997 & 2003) Go ahead and look it up in the record books. But I guess if you say it's a farce, it must be so! LOL!

  • Re:Re: Disappointed | 3:28 p.m
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:13 p.m.

    "For all you Honor Code Experts out there, please tell me how what Max Hall said is an honor code violation? Grow up and let it go."

    Honor code that Max violated:

    1) Be a man: the events happened last year, why waited after the game to bring it up? Be a man and defend your loved ones right after last year's game

  • To Huh @ 2:55 pm
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:59 p.m.

    How does escorting those responsible out by police officers a failure to control fans at RES? Think before you speak son! The fans that attacked Hall's family were escorted out by police! Sounds to me like crowd control. Your boy Max is the one with no class! As shown in his comments. If his story is true, it's an outrageous and terrible thing those Utah fans did, but they got escorted out by police! Justice was already served. Why let hate harbor within you for a year and rip on thousands of people for what a few did a year ago? Very poor class and very unwise comments. Shows his true character and his comments also showed what many BYU-haters believe, that BYU students think they are better than everyone else and above everyone else. I don't believe it's true that BYU feels that way but many do believe that and Hall is helping their case not hurting it.

  • Deserve to lose?
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:58 p.m.

    As a UofU graduate all I can say is that Hall's statement represents the typical BYU "holier than thou" attitude and unbelievable arrogance over other "state" schools. The Utes "deserved to lose"? By what standard are we using? Because it sure looked to me that Utah - with the exception of one play - shut down Hall, Unga, and Pitta. Unfortunately, I have seen this movie several times before, where Utah totally outplays the Cougs for 3 1/2 quarters before they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. But I guess they deserved to loose. So I guess after BYU's BCS proclamations after the Oklahoma win, we can say that BYU "deserved" to lose to Fla. State and TCU. The lack of any comment or retraction from the University only adds to "above reproach" beliefs of its defenders. Hall's words will live in infamy and only bring more fans in to the camp of "I root for Utah and ANY team playing BYU."

  • Deaner Boveaner
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:50 p.m.

    Please don't tell me you're serious. The national championship was a farce. The Holiday Bowl... palying an inferior Michigan team. Was Michigan even ranked in the top 10? I'm afraid not.

  • Nice Job Max
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:43 p.m.

    Your next move should probably to to move out of the country. You have embarrassed 95% of the LDS people in Utah. Believe me, as I was doing tithing settlement Sunday for 5 hours, there was no-mention of BYU's win, only how badly the church was embarrassed by your comments.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:38 p.m.

    Who cares!

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:35 p.m.

    Let it go already! One has to wonder why Ute fans are so sensitive and offended by Hall's comments. Is it because he's closer to the truth than what Ute fans want to believe? The likes of Scalley and Stevenson Sylvester have made similar statements about hating BYU in public forums yet it was all so easily swept under the rug. So who's really guilty of hypocrisy?

  • Scoreboard
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:32 p.m.

    Utah: 2 BCS Wins
    BYU: 1 National Title

    Ohh, I'm sorry! Ute fans don't like to live in the past! Well who's got bragging rights for the next 12 months? Feast on that!

  • Eric
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:32 p.m.

    I dont blame Max for getting mad, They had no right to do what they did to his family. Who wouldnt get mad if somebody threw beer on their family. He took his frustrations out on the football field, which is a healthy way to deal with it. He said a few things in the heat of the moment so what, its better than punching somebody's lights out.

  • Re: Disappointed
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:28 p.m.

    For all you Honor Code Experts out there, please tell me how what Max Hall said is an honor code violation? Grow up and let it go.

  • At the BYU GAME
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:26 p.m.

    In the Utah Section, one fan was arrested. A Utah fan. Guess who asked to have him removed?????


    Good job Utah fans!!

    The Utah fans in our section in the West Stands were wonderful! Thanks for an enjoyable game.

    The only problem in our section was a BYU Fan who would not sit the older lady behind him could not see. Nor could the little boy one more row back. Many BYU fans were calling him on it, but he would NOT SIT.

  • Max was great
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:23 p.m.

    thanks Max. You've been fun to watch. You've done great.

    You were right about utes fans.

    In the end we are going to find out that ute fans started the how incident with whittingham's wife.

    Have one more great game Max!!

    Utes have no class. Especially when they call someone a femine hygiene product.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:16 p.m.

    To the 7:00 commentator,
    If you say you "hate everything" about BYU than how are you different than Max Hall? Why can you express your hate but he must be punished for expressing his?
    I think what Max did was stupid, and I think he should have forgiven those who attacked his family. Holding grudeges is destructive.
    However, those who go off on how they "hate" BYU have no standing to attack Max's statements.

  • Cal Reader
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:07 p.m.

    What is an exercise in futility?
    A. Arguing about sports
    B. Arguing about religion
    C. Arguing about politics
    D. All of the above

  • BYU's Reply
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:06 p.m.

    As a member of the church I am disappointed in BYU's reply. I do not expect BYU to punish or suspend MAX from play ect, but I do expect BYU to stand behing its morals and come out with a statement that what MAX did was wrong. Instead all the coaches hide and the school says nothing. THIS IS A LOT LIKE TIGER WOODS. BYU needs to man up and say that it is wrong and it will all go away. Keeping silent only makes things worse and the school and Church look as lame as SOME of the U fans last year! If you have standards stick up to them or you loose all credability.

  • Absurd
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:05 p.m.

    The worst thing about the whole game is that, like all BYU home games, it started with a prayer. A rivalry consecrated to God. Maybe the fans and players should start listening to those prayers a little more.

  • not really an apology
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:02 p.m.

    That was supposed to be an apology but aplologies really don't include a justification for doing what your sorry to have done.

    Sorry I robbed the bank but the bank manager made me mad and took an overdraft fee and my grandma is sick and I pay too much taxes and my landlord is mean and the bailouts so it's really my tax money and the grocery store is expensive and that's why I robbed the bank but they had it comming.

    And a guy in my ward was excommunicated for supporting gay rights...... nice.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:55 p.m.

    the 8:22 claim that BYU expell's people for watching MTV is ridiculous.
    Do you want them to expell Max Hall for expressing his view of the University of Utah? Yes, it was harsh, yes, he should not have done it, but expelling him for saying he hates the University of Utah is a little extreme.
    Very few things will get you expelled from BYU as lone incidents. Most of the time, they allow you to stay on and work with the honor code office.
    Many of the most celebrated cases have actually involved people resigning who could have stayed on and worked with the honor code office.

  • huh
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:55 p.m.

    If letting it go constitutes BYU endorsing Hall's statements, then failure to control fans at RES means that the U must support spitting on people, dumping beer on them, verbally abusing them, etc.
    (in my book; angry words consititue a lesser sin than physical abuse)

    Let it go people Hall got mad like any human being would in his circumstance; he apologized for his overgeneralization. Now if you hang onto it: IT IS YOUR PROBLEM

  • The Rock
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:54 p.m.

    Everyone asks if Hall's comments were nice. Nope, they were not.

    My question is "Were they true?" My experience tells me that for a certain group of Utes, they are true.

    Why is telling the truth about despicable behavior worse than the despicable behavior?

    Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me.

  • Apology, what apology
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:47 p.m.

    Max Halls original comments were not something spur of the moment, they sounded well thought out and deliberate. He just didn't have the moxy to say them until after the game....what a coward... And as far as his apology goes did he really apologize, and why didn't he have the guts (scared maybe) to get in front of the TV camera and apologize in kind for the comments he made.

    Glad I didn't go to the Y

  • RE: Hope for Changes
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:45 p.m.

    As a member of the LDS church you should know that BYU does not spend money on major college sports. All of the sports programs are supported by football and basketball revenue and Cougar Club donations, not BYU or church funds. I too "would rather hear about new temples being built than watch players and fans on both sides attack each other after sporting events" but I would rather watch their team sports and support them than read nonsensical comments on and Internet comment board like I just read.

  • Disappointed
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:42 p.m.

    Not a fan of either school but live in Utah County. I'm really surprised that BYU is not doing anything about this. This is a complete violation of the honor code and does not look good for BYU or the LDS church. For BYU to turn a blind eye and issue no punishment cheapens the honor.

  • Oregon Ute
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:39 p.m.

    to Max: School thy feelings, O my brother.

  • BYU Texan
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:38 p.m.

    The school is handling the situation exactly as it should. Mr. Hall showed a bit of immaturity and his comments displayed poor sportsmanship but in the grand scheme of things the whole incident is trivial and typical of the kinds of minutia sports writers like to focus on when both schools have no games coming up for 3-4 weeks. Players from both schools have made inflammatory comments over the years. What everybody seems to forget is that the comments were words and nobody has suffered any lasting injury over them! Dwelling on these these things for days only elevates them to a state of gravitas they don't warrant.

  • Stop the Hate
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:37 p.m.

    Stop the Hate. All of you need to stop the hate now before it gets really out of hand.

    Go Utes!!!

  • Henry Drummond
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:32 p.m.

    OK, I think I get it now. Max hates the University of Utah. He hates the fans. He hates the players. He hates the administration. He hates everyone who ever went there. He especially hates the Pioneer Memorial Theater's production of Les Miserables.

    Let's move on.

  • Now that we have proved...
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:24 p.m.

    There are pathetic arguments on both sides of the ball, I think the only thing that can be said is:


    Hopefully, by then we will all be a little more mature than what the past few years have proven to be.

    GO UTES!!

  • Amazing!
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:23 p.m.

    All the heated talk of punnishment and forgiveness makes me shake my head. Aren't we all so expert, so knowledgeable, so perfect that we hold the right to judge what others do. Are we no better than Max if we condemn him for his words? I hope these responses provide some level of therapy that will help us get over ourselves. Contemplate this..."let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

  • Ponytail Girl
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:15 p.m.

    It's not like he yanked anyone's ponytail or anything, no big deal.

  • Whoa Nellie
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:13 p.m.

    Not LDS at 3:28 a.m. and hail hail "Get a Life" at 5:50 are the most sensible comments ever posted on DNews. I fully agree with them.

    I also fully agree with Larry B. - about his not returning to BYU football games, etc. Good riddance and goodbye. No team should have to put up with fans like Larry B.

    In the past, and I'm afraid it will happen again, I too have said I hate Utah fans, I hate Utah football and basketball, and I have said I hate the Utes. However, making such statements does not mean I really hate every fan or player, just those obnoxious fans that are so "in your face" with their absurd comments, rude behavior and disrespectful speech. I have good friends who are Utah fans. Some of them actually attend games at RES.

    Just to be honest and fair I have no respect for BYU fans that come late, leave early, and whine about coaches or players. And I really don't like those that seem to think their opinions and attitudes are the only ones that matter. I talking to you who think Max should be benched.

  • LIAR!
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:13 p.m.

    Max's apology was no apology. He meant every word of what he said. For him to say he didn't mean anything against the University of Utah is lie! If he didn't mean anything against them, why did he say "The whoe organization is classless"? LIE MAX! I hope your team loses HUGE in your bowl game! In fact, I hope the Las Vegas Bowl realizes how much money they could bring in if they did a rematch of Utah and BYU this year...little old Maxie wouldn't be talking so much then!

  • honor code
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:12 p.m.

    amazing what byu will do when a popular athelete violates the honor code and there is still a bowl game to play. if any other athlete did this, they would toss them out. go byu athletics - continue to show the world athletics is a different set of standards than the rest of the university.

  • Hope for Changes
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:59 p.m.

    As a member of the LDS church I would like to see BYU use the money it spends on major college sports in endeavors that more closely align with the mission of the church. I would rather hear about new temples being built than watch players and fans on both sides attack each other after sporting events - especially BYU-Utah games. I don't think the church is getting much in the way good PR or missionary work out of its sports programs.

  • Scoreboard
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:49 p.m.

    Brian Johnson: 1 BCS
    Max Hall: 0 BCS

  • Re:College Football | 1:21 p.m.
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:47 p.m.

    The BCS is designed to exclude teams like Utah, TCU and Boise. TCU is as good as any team this year, and Utah beat Alabama last year in the BCS, a team that went undefeated 12-0 in the SEC. Florida's non conference Schedule is full of cupcake's.

  • Cynic
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:47 p.m.

    Re: Iterested

    You couldn't be more wrong about almost everything you said. Go to KSL sports, pick BYU and read Greg Wrubell's Cougar tracks post. Hall's apology was not forced on him by anyone. He wrote and submitted it himself. I'm not condoning his original comments about hating the U. I thought it was in very bad taste after a win. He was wrong, but his apology was genuine. People mess up. You probably won't believe this. Maybe you're too full of the hate you're condeming Max Hall for.

  • Utef@n
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:45 p.m.

    I am not anything like what Hall described in his post game interview and I don't care about what he said. I have tons of class. In fact, last year when I threw bottles at BYU fans they were plastic bottles, but I care so little about what Hall says next year I'll sneak in glass. Last year I had so much class I refrained from beating up little kids and elderly, but this next year no BYU fan will be safe. Last season, I was content to scream vulgarity in the face of people wearing blue, but next year I will do that to anyone not in red. Why? Because I am so classy and I don't care about what Hall said.

  • Willie
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:44 p.m.

    Move on and if you want to do something, let it be an effort to increase good sportsmanship. The issue is not what Hall said, but why he said it.

  • Maxi
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:43 p.m.

    reminds me of Gomer Pyle in Andy Griffith Show. Naive. Good in filling gas. Simple-minded mechanics. I hope to see him at my gas station. I am a big tipper.

  • Stone Man
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:43 p.m.

    To Glass houses,

    You wrote: "It is unfortunate that every time a Mormon does something out of line it is completely turned into a diatribe against the LDS institution."

    We are only following the example of the LDS Public Relations Department and Deseret News: Every time a Mormon does something that can at all be construed as "good", they completely turn it into an article, a photo-op, a sales message, and propaganda.

    If you want to publicize ONLY the "GOOD" examples of Mormons and have that reflect on the entire LDS institution, but you want to claim the "BAD" stuff does NOT reflect on the entire LDS institution, then you are just as HYPOCRITICAL as everyone says the LDS Church is!

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:36 p.m.

    Pathetic: any discipline doesn't need to be made public. It's between him and the school

  • Re; The Man | 12:22 p.m. Dec
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:35 p.m.

    Yes max did win 2 of 3. The problem is that last year was a quest for perfection. The team that was 13-0 was the utes after they trounced byu.

    This year they did beat utah but in ot with a fr QB. After BYU beat oklahoma and being ranked in the top 10 the expectations were to go to the BCS and NC talk was heating up. With 2 blowouts from a mediocre Florida st. team and TCU I wouldn't be bragging. Undefeated BCS bowl win seasons are amazing.. I guess you wouldn't know.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:32 p.m.

    People, people. Its funny that the U is not held to as high of a "Standard" as BYU is in they eyes of the world. Had this comment come from a U player it would not have received such coverage nor meant as much.

    I honestly would not have cared one bit if the U player said something about me, and I go to BYU. I would have forgotten about it and moved on.

    It makes you wonder...Why does the U and its fans care so much? Grow up and move on people.

    And also there are BAD FANS on both sides and it is a shame that an entire univeristy gets belittled for what a few people do.

    Anyway we should just forget about it and move on. Max plays football and is not perfect nor should he be expected to be. He made a statement that was far to generalized and we all know that.

  • College Football
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:21 p.m.

    Outside of Utah no one cares about BYU/Utah. The only thing that really matters is that Florida plays for another National Championship.

  • Interested
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:21 p.m.

    Let's get one thing straight Max Hall DID NOT apologize. His name was attached to a statement released by the BYU public relations group. He didn't man up and apologize, he was forced to put his name on an "apology" that he did not write. There's a reason the apology was a written statement and not a video. Max Hall feels no regret for what he said, he didn't have a choice though than to let the university put his name on a written apology. If it were strictly up to him, NO apology would have come! That is a fact! So quit saying "What more do you want? He apologized." Anybody being honest with themselves no that this is not the case!

  • Glass houses
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:18 p.m.

    If I might interject a comment in the midst of all these stones being thrown at Max Hall:

    If we ALL had a microphone in our face after (or during)every heated/competitive event in our lives during our teens/20's...I am certain that more than one of our comments would have been unchristlike.

    Max made an emotional comment. He painted with too broad of a brush. He, like all the rest of us, made a mistake. Unfortunately, as a leader of his team, and he was in front of a microphone. The media has blown it out of control.

    After reading about the treatment of Max's family, and as an imperfect being, I can understand Max's feelings about the U fans he encountered. If the worst of what he says/does is call them "classless" and that he "hates" them, I don't think he needs to be stoned to death. I don't think he needs therapy, he is normal.

    It is unfortunate that every time a Mormon does something out of line it is completely turned into a diatribe against the LDS institution.

    Dec. 1, 2009 1:12 p.m.

    I'm non-LDS Utah fan, but I stopped attending Utah home games years ago because I didn't want my kids exposed to the kind of vulgarity that far too many Utah fans seem to think equates to rooting for their team. Classless - not all Utah fans, but far too many are, and the UofU Administration should do a better job of having Security monitor crowd behavoir. A few ejections might sober everyone up.

  • Mr. BYU
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:05 p.m.

    For those CRY BABIES who say that there was NO reason that Max Hall should've said what he did:

    Have YOU NEVER said anything you should not have in the heat of battle? If you answer "NO" then you are lying to yourself and others.

    Yes, Ideally he should not have used the word "hate" and he shouldn't have used a blanket approach in calling the U of U itself, their team and all fans classless.

    But in the heat of the situation you say things you should not say. I will say he is right in calling many Utah fans classless-not all but many. There are some classless BYU fans as well but not to the extent you will find up north. I know, as I have lived in the state more than 50 years and have followed the rivalry for probably 30 of those years.

    That said and now that Max is done commenting let's let it go.

  • Was a BYU fan
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:02 p.m.

    I have watched BYU football from the start of the Lavell Edwards days, but I also support the Univerisity of Utah. When they go head to head, I actually pull for the team that it will benefit the most, IE last year, I hoped the Utes would win to go to the BCS. Years when it doesn't matter I do support the Y over the U.

    I know BYU says the matter is close, but would hope Mendenhall would maybe start Riley Nelson in Halls place for the bowl game. Seems there should be some punishment for the comments other than a slap on the wrist.

  • Confessions of a "Y" fan
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:54 p.m.

    Have I hated the Utes before? Yes
    Am I proud of this? No
    Do I think all Utes are classless? No
    How would I react to my mother being harassed? Probably with lots of anger.
    Did I like Max's comment about hating the U? No, it'll just make things worse. Bad sportsmanship after a win. He should have thought more about representing the team and universtiy well with his remarks. He did apologize, but some things are pretty hard to remedy.
    Is this rivalry too important to people? Absolutely, but few things are as fun.

  • Re: bun | 9:42 a.m. Dec. 1, 2009
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:54 p.m.

    I'm pretty sure Max is not losing many minutes of sleep over your respect or lack of respect for him.

    Was Max sincere in his apology? That's not for us to judge. That's between him, those who have stewarship over him and his God.

    The rest of us don't count.

  • As a Mormon
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:51 p.m.

    I am embarrassed at all the fingerpointing and all of my fellow LDS members saying that other people are "classless".... It goes against everything BYU and the Church teach us as to how to act and treat others. Honestly, hypocritical and embarrassing. Please, everyone, stop.

  • To: Larry B.
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:41 p.m.

    It's your choice to quit buying BYU season tickets and to quit contributing to the Cougar Club.

    Just as it is the choice of anyone of us to buy tickets or not, or contribute or not.

    Have a nice fall season from here on out.

  • wallofvoodoo
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:38 p.m.

    Not over till next year at this time! Just wait. ;)

  • Anne
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:29 p.m.

    Max Hall is no Tim Tebow

  • The Man
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:22 p.m.

    Your the Man Max.
    While Max started
    BYU 2 wins
    Utah 1 win

  • Scoreboard
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:15 p.m.

    All that matters is BYU won. The Utes can cry all they want about having their feelings hurt, but that doesn't take the fact the score was 26-23!!!

  • Utah fans
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:12 p.m.

    I guess Utah fans have some planning to do for next year's Utah-BYU game.

  • Time to Stand Up
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:08 p.m.

    Mendenhall and Whittingham need to take a stand and cool this thing down.

    It is fun to have a rivalry with another school.

    This rivalry has no room for hate.

    Coaches, it is time to take a stand and be an example of what sportsmanship should be in this state.

  • Joe
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:59 a.m.

    What is done is done. He shouldn't be look at this way for what he said toward the Utah Utes program. They disrespected his family by pouring beer on them. All he did to utes fans were words. Compare words to beer, and lets not forget who won the game square and fair. Game in my words was personal too, cause of the disrespecting part. No need for saying hall is a sore winner, cause when utes won in 2008, the poured beer. So hall is a strong quaterback, and a athlete and should not be called a sore winner. Here we come Vegas Bowl, poor utes are not good players nor are they a good program.

  • rivalries
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:59 a.m.

    Other than religious stones being cast (mostly by the side who is spiteful towards the ones backed by the religion) this rivalry is not more fierce or heated among fans as others through out the country.

    And to the person that asked, as though it has never happened, if we'd like if people came out and said they hated Mormons what would we think?

    Happens all the time. Think about it. Think mobs in Ohio, Missouri, Nauvoo. Think public officials and law enforcement at the local, state and national levels that turned a blind eye or even signed extermination orders. Think Lou Dobbs, James Dobson, Mike Huckabee during the 2008 election. Think about the portion of Utah fans that are anti-mormon (not all) and say they hate BYU because it is more acceptable than saying they hate the Mormons. Or just think about the term Mormons on its own - it was a derogatory term coined to insult The LDS Church.

    And what do we do in the long run to all of these people, we serve them, preach the Gospel to them, and hope they one day find out for themselves if it is true.

  • The other Scoreboard...
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:56 a.m.

    This whole conversation really points back to what these schools are really all about, educating these people so they can become productive adults. If you look at how either program is doing at educating and graduating their athletes, they both fail horribly. Both the Y and U rank in the lower levels of all Division 1 when it comes to graduating their student athletes, barely half at each graduate.

    Perhaps this points more the why we get really uneducated and poorly thought out comments coming from these athletes. These schools are both evidence of what their administrations value to be important. Compare their graduation rates to USC, Stanford, Notre Dame, Miami, VT, even Florida. All these schools are able to have competitive teams (well usually) and compete at the highest levels. Even Boise State graduates more players. So does TCU - by more than 10 percentage points.

    Max Hall just represents the values of both of these schools. They both so badly want to be BCS busters, they are failing to develop these boys into men. And is show in their behavior and conduct - are we surprised?

    Are we surprised when the fans don't act any better?

  • Wife of a Coach
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:55 a.m.

    This is to Max. Lessons can be learned outside of the classroom. Remember what comes out of your mouth doesn't just concern you, but all of your family as well. Your wife should be respected at all times, in all places, in all things. What happened at RES was not her fault. But now, when some stupid fan gets to her, it will be your fault for letting your emotions get as low as those fans. BYU and U of U have no control over the crazy people. Protect your family. Be quiet.

  • Seasons over
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:50 a.m.

    I was thinking of attending the Las Vegas Bowl this year. Now I think I'll stay home and watch "It's A Wonderful Life" instead. Max ended the season for me.

  • observations/clarifications
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:46 a.m.

    Comments made by Max are not against the Honor Code so please stop the ridiculous assumptions.

    Comments made by Max do have a negative impact and would be considered unfortunate to both sides.

    An apology was made...Christian values would now state that we should forgive and forget.

    Similar comments have been made by Utah players, but those are far to conveniently forgotten.

    The reactions to the comments do seem to help in removing the focus from the games result.

    Being harassed/assaulted in the stands should not happen. More level headed/mature fans of the home team should be willing to self police the out of control fans in their area to include escalating to security.

    What happened to Sis Whittingham should have never happened. The Utah representative that assaulted the fan and journalist seems to have caused the shoving match that she ended up to close to (no reports of punches - so drop the exagerations). I do believe that there are reasons fans/wives/children should not be on the field before/during/after the game. If this small rule of thumb would have been followed she would never have been close to the situation.

  • S. Larson
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:45 a.m.

    A friend of mine, who is a Arizona State Univ. fan. Told me that the fans who were the rudest of any he has ever seen, were in Provo. He attends several road games each year. He told me that It isn't even close. Other than in Provo, his experiences were that fans from other schools, were for the most part considerate and respectful.In Provo, however, his family was taunted, called names etc. Interesting.

  • Understand Max
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:43 a.m.

    Imagine if you had to spend a year reliving the worst game of your life, and being reminded who your favorite receiver was. Add remembering how your family was treated to boot. Add to that the 2nd and 3rd worst games of your life that wiped your name from any Heisman mention. Add on all the mention of Nielson from your own fan base. Finally add the fact that you only beat the U by 3, in OT no less, rather than the 40 point beatdown you had been fantasizing over. Stew together = the tirade that so aptly displayed his lack of control usually expected of a senior/captain.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:40 a.m.

    I don't know of anyone who hasn't put their foot in their mouth at some point in life. The idea is to learn from the experience. Classy people from both schools have already put this behind them and learned a lesson about thinking before speaking. These comment boards show that there are classless people in both school.

    Let's put it behind us and move on to a joyeous and happy Holiday season.

  • Please let this horse die.
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:40 a.m.

    It was a football game with people from both sides letting tempers, emotions, etc. get the best of them. Let alone religion or bloodlines going to whichever school - this is about people and weaknesses hopefully becoming strengths.
    Everybody go home, draw the lessons from it, look in the mirror and determine what we'll do about it within our own spans of control (ourselves).
    Then get back to work, play, school, or whatever it is we're supposed to be doing right now.
    Just don't beat your dog, and especially stop beating this poor horse.

  • character and class
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:32 a.m.

    A persons true character, and class, shows when they are under pressure.
    Max Hall was simply showing his true character, and class.
    It funny how if you get a person mad, you find out who they really are, and what they really believe.

  • Alan Jones
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:31 a.m.

    It's time for Ute fans to recognize their double standard. You want Max to apologize for his comments, but why won't your university apologize for your classless fans who were so nasty that Max's family had to have a police escort to leave your stadium? Also, when Ute player Morgan Scalley mouthed off about how he "hated" BYU a few years ago, why didn't U of U administration never asked him to apologize? Lose the double standard Utes! You're being hypocrites.

  • BYU Fan
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:28 a.m.

    The only thing I regret about Max Hall's comments is that instead of tucking their tails between their legs and hiding in a corner until next year, Utah fans can now change the subject that they lost and make a big deal about nothing. Get over it Ute fans. We'll beat you again next year!

  • Ike
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:25 a.m.

    BYU won. Utah Lost....Eat it. HAHA

  • Sue Isbell
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:05 a.m.

    Being a devout UTE fan, I doubt all Max's personal reasoning was true, but more than that I'm glad it's said, It will only ignite UTES next year, and it totally stole their THUNDER for a win, all we know is Max is the goat again.

  • jpmom
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:02 a.m.

    Another example of "the untouchables" - not available to the media - hmm - and they are satisfied - hmm.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:49 a.m.

    Max Hall has a lot of growing up still to do. I hope for his sake he works on it daily. He has let down a lot of people by his remarks. It sure doesn't help the church's missionary efforts when BYU players behave in this way.

  • Indiana Coug
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:48 a.m.

    Fans are always going to treat you poorly when you are supporting their rival. I had awful things shouted at me, as well as being the recipient of flying projectiles when I went to an Indiana/OSU game at the horseshoe. And there's no rivalry there--IU is one of the worse teams in the country. People just don't like having opposing fans around--get over it, that's the way life is. Max should have kept his comments private and we need to move on.

  • Benson
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:41 a.m.

    Hate! Are you guys kidding me! Hate speech. You guys are pathetic. I find it hilarious that calling people classless now qualifies as Hate Speech. How unbelievable. My 4 year-old son called another kid on the playground a boo-boo head. Man, I should punish him extra for his hate speech.

  • Boston
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:23 a.m.

    I graduated from both schools and am embarrassed by both in terms of this rivalry. People use it to channel all of their hatred and stupidity towards one another. People need to grow up and remember it's a game.
    Hall said dumb things in the heat of the moment, tarnished the victory a bit, and apologized. Move on! I've attended games at both schools and found many of the U fans trying to be as crude as they could be and the Y fans to be spoiled whiners.
    I hope the schools, coaches and the league can get things improved. I have stopped donating to both schools because of this embarrassing behavior. It makes the schools and the state look foolish.

  • The Green Hornet
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:22 a.m.

    now all we need is an apology from the U of U for last years assault on Halls family. Waiting............

  • This Will Escalate
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:05 a.m.

    People believe what they want to believe. It is called "perception". I have attended football games in all of the venues in Northern Utah. I have not seen a nickles worth of difference in fan behavior at Utah State, Weber State, UofU, and BYU. If you wear the colors of the opposing team, you are at risk for abuse. (that is part of the fun of doing it) Yes people swore at the game. (I was there) some wore red, some blue. The BYU fan in front of me was teaching his 10 year old son to get in our faces. To push emotional buttons. The UTE fan next to me was yelling because every time the UTE band played the loudspeaker would play a song to cover up their playing. (He was cheering for the band) If your skin is that thin, and you are proving self worth though the efforts of athletes don't go to the game.
    Sadly, BYU and Bronco have failed. They have positioned themselves as different instutuionally. They are not. Bronco, I don't believe it any more. Better stop the firesides. Actions do speak louder than your words.

  • Sportsmanship
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:57 a.m.

    It all comes down to sportsmanship which seems to be lacking here. Cheer for the player who deserves it regardless of team! Be proud and supportive of accomplishment. Quit being so color-blind. School spirit is great- but good sportsmanship is better.

  • Reality
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:55 a.m.

    It's unfortunate that the display of a few completely classless fans has to overcome the values and excellent behavior of the majority. Alcoholic beverages being sold at an athletic venue, which can be used to bring out the absolute classless behavior of a few needs to be addressed, and addressed now if there is any hope of preventing such actions in the future. There are many LDS members that attend the Univ of Utah, and many Utah families have members attending both universities. So we can all enjoy future rivalry games without worries about those that would chose to harm or accost family members, a decision should be made to eliminate the sale of alcoholic beverages at all sporting events at the U of U, or these situations will increase and it won't just be beer that is thrown. Support the classy behavior of the majority, don't encourage the classless actions of the few!

  • the whole darn state
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:51 a.m.

    is a projection table..don't be a playa hata!

  • bun
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:42 a.m.

    I am an ardent BYU fan but BYU always chokes in big games and usually lose their cool. As far as max hall is concerned, I've lost all respect for him and I think he should be suspended for the rest of the season which include any bowl that the team is invited to. They won't win it anyway so why not give
    Riley the experience.

  • Wake-up call for Uof U
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:37 a.m.

    Like I said before, Max's post-game remarks should be a huge wake-up call for the UofU. They need to take a serious look into why their program and/or its fans would elicit such a response. If I were their AD I would be embarrassed about this incident and take a hard look at what's going on.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:34 a.m.

    what happened to being held to a higher standard?

  • Perfect Solution
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:34 a.m.

    Here is what you do to solve this. You get caught acting inappropriate at the BYU Utah game and you are expelled from that game and the next. You get caught a second time you are no longer allowed at future games and you are not able to enter either of those stadiums. If a season ticket holder is caught acting inappropriate then he is expelled for that game and the next. If he or she is caught again then they lose their season tickets for good. Then all those forfeited tickets are given to charities. Problem solved.

  • Go ahead Utes
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:28 a.m.

    Go ahead and say it Utes! Say "I hate BYU". See, it doesn't hurt me a bit. NO BIG DEAL!

  • Constitutional Right
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:27 a.m.

    Can you say Freedom of Speech?

  • Quinn Kramer
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:20 a.m.

    "Ohhhh BOO poor picked on Yewt fans!

    Maybe you should pack it in and stick to Womens Gymnastics......Football just isn't your game!"

    Really? Then whats up with our undefeated seasons?
    Know what your talking about.

  • Why apologize?
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:19 a.m.

    He expressed his opinion. I thought it was his first amendment right.

  • Not so
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:10 a.m.

    Not all Utah fans are Mormon haters. Some of the most avid UTAH fans at my place of work are devout LDS. They wear red proudly and cheer loudly. True, some fans behave boorishly... but they are NOT representative. Don't pass judgment on all of us. Build your vocabulary: look up stereotype, bias, prejudice.

  • All 4 One
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:05 a.m.

    No doubt Max's comments were inappropriate. But judging the entire BYU institution and football program solely based on his comments, is just as unfair as Max judging the entire University of Utah institution based on an isolated incident with those fans at RES last year. He made a mistake, so blame him, don't blame BYU. Get real people, they didn't prompt him to say that stuff, he said it on his own and is accountable.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:52 a.m.

    Byu says it is resolved. And that would be between the school and Hall not the public and Hall. If the Ute coaches wife was hurt (which pictures shows she was not) it would have been an accident

  • BYU Fan Thinks
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:51 a.m.

    Hall should be suspended, in his alleged apology he said he meant what he said, that's not an apology. The only reason BYU has a football team is to promote the church. If this were not the case BYU-Idaho would still have a team.

    Max's comments should have gotten him suspended and this would have been the proper punishment for such diarrhea of the mouth. I'm a little shocked that BYU has not done more to reprimand him.

  • Ute
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:50 a.m.

    I am a Utah graduate and did my graduate work at the Y. Despite the latter, I still consider myself completely red.

    When I was an undergrad, we used to mock BYU fans for constantly making excuses for the 34-31 games. When Mac was the coach, you'd never hear an excuse out of a Ute fan. But when the Y lost, the game was blamed on officials, snowballs from the stands, etc... Cougar fans couldn't fathom a god that would allow his chosen school to lose.

    Utah fans need to get over these comments. Had we won, no one would care what Max Hall said. It is our "excuse," our way to take the focus off of our worse game of the year. Hopefully we can right this ship before the bowl game.

    To my zoobie friends, your team played awful as well. Your "Heisman" candidate played worse than our freshman. Ask yourself this, who really played with more heart? Winn is a lot better than anyone that you have coming up for the next three years.

    When I wake up each morning, I am grateful that I am not a zoobie.

    GO UTES!

  • Truth
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:46 a.m.

    RESOLVED, but NOT DISSOLVED! Hall's rant will forever live in the minds of many BYU fans like myself who care about other more important things in life than football.

  • Hypocrites
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:46 a.m.

    To all the BYU fans demanding the U control their fans: BYU can't even rein in their senior quarterback when he's playing on scholarship and has agreed to, then violated the school's honor code.


    Sorry for speaking my mind. Am I forgiven now?

  • Ute Fan
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:43 a.m.

    Its a little ironic to me, as both a U student and an ardent fan, to see so many derogatory comments from Y fans aimed towards Utes, and yet we are the classless ones. According to these people from their statements, BYU is still 'higher class' than us dirty, drunken Ute fans who fight unprovoked at the slightest opportunity. Yet every time I travel down to Provo to visit my fiance (who is attending BYU law school) I am unbelievably mistreated by people left and right. I've had someone spit on my car last week simply because i had a U of U license plate, and a woman in Cabela's rammed me with her cart and made a derogatory comment when i was in my Ute MUSS shirt (she was wearing a BYU shirt that said "I like two teams- BYU and whoever is playing U of U"). Very classy, all of you.

    The way you act on this comment board is exactly why people expect more from you, and why so many were appalled by Halls statements, and personally I have grown to hate this rivalry because people cannot handle it in a friendly,professional manner.

  • Don't like the dumb sport
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:40 a.m.

    What a wast of time and money. Football. Lets put the money and time to a good use, like serving the poor, defending our nation, cleaning up or nation, spend it on educating the needy etc etc. Can you imagine what would happen if every person at every football game was serving the community and their neighbors how much good could be done in the world. find a real life people. Try to open your eyes and see things as they really are, as they have been and as they always will be. Again get a real life.

  • CB
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:36 a.m.

    I am not sure an apology will influence the negative feelings created from his words regarding "hate". I do not believe the University understands how improper such comments are to all of us who religiouly believe as he claims? I am not sure he has learned much in his required religion courses, and should be required to take additional courses and learn why such statemets are so silly and immature.

  • Max is RIGHT!
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:36 a.m.

    Thanks Max for saying what all of us know and feel, ON BOTH SIDES! We both hate and despise each other. This is exactly what fuels our rivalry. Bravo to Max Hall for using his platform and position to vocalize what we Ute and Cougar fans all know to be true!

    Thanks also to Max, BYU Athletics, and the MWC for appeasing the tendered hearted amongst us.

  • @ anonymous 6:16
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:31 a.m.

    are you kidding? things like that are said everyday. There is a newspaper in town that seems to have a mission statement with the sole purpose to say those things, evidenced by the vile things people post. It is the very reason the rivalry is as ugly as it is. The ugliness of this will never go away unless BYU discontinues it's football program. The Utah football fans that are LDS are certainly not able to do anything about it, they empowered the minority by ignoring them much too long ago to do anything about it now.

  • Hall just gave back...
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:29 a.m.

    .... though in less degree the hatred that has been dumped on him by the dump-truck load by Utah fans. He's an athlete. Not many athletes are that intelligent and not many of them have that much control. I look at all athletes that I have ever seen and I can't think of many who I think are real role models and Max is no exception.

    We admire athletes for their physical abilities and intelligence sufficent to play their sport. I rarely see them as moral or intellectual role models. I am a hard core BYU fan but my love of athletes starts when the whistle blows and stops when the whistle blows. I've loved some Utah athletes. I've loved some BYU athletes. But I've never considered them role models for my religion nor person's who I'd hold up as "extraordinarily virtuous". I know BYU justifies athletics to be able to be good ambassadors of the religion... seems a little "two edged swordish".

    I've been to a lot of rivalries and few are as viscious as this. Especially when you throw in religion/righteousness, it is very very personal.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:28 a.m.

    The Utes are bad sports. They are mad that they lost the game. they are mad that Max Hall told the truth about them. The Utes are classless. As the Ute fans continue to bad talk Max, his comments are being validated.

  • Unbelievable!
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:28 a.m.

    It's interesting how Utah fans are blasting Hall for not keeping his mouth shut and speaking out in the heat of the moment, so now when he's apologized and refuses to say any more, Utah fans are now screaming that nothing more will be done and people are being silent about it. What do you want? There's no pleasing the critics.

    He's apologized, what more is there to say about it? Either let it go (the 'classy' thing to do as you all claim you are) or keep justifying Hall's comments by fueling the fire.

  • re: Totally Understand
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:28 a.m.

    Maybe the U can hire Max Hall to give seminars on how to encourage sportsmanship.

    Oh yeah, sorry. Clearly that's just an issue at the U. No need to get a BYU player involved.

    And having never worn Utah gear into LES, you cannot understand the pure hatred that exists there for anyone supporting Utah, as Max clearly stated. The language is not usually as bad as you'll get in RES, and instead of an alcoholic beverage being spilled it's just caffeine free coke, but for some reason that lessens the experience in a BYU fans eyes.

    Try walking by a family at LES in Utah gear. You'll watch as children cringe and parents move to protect them.

    No joke. Sat by a family of about 7-8 on Saturday. Cheered loud for my Utes, as they did for the Cougs. My brother dropped his hat and we asked if they could pick it up for him. They sat quietly, stared forward, and must have been praying that we weren't really speaking and would just go away. No abusive language, but absolutly the worst experience I've ever had. Villanized because of my shirt.

  • cbk16
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:24 a.m.

    Hall shouldn't have made the comments, but some people will have a hard time getting over beer being thrown at your family and being treated like a animal. Not all Ute fans are as bad as he saw, just like not all BYU fans would be willing to though a punch and the Ute coaches wife.

  • All Done
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:23 a.m.

    Okay, this story should come to an end. I don't think it was smart for Hall to say what he said, but you can imagine that from his perspective it feels like there are alot of Utes out for him.

  • Slgs5
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:22 a.m.

    I must be missing something. Is what he said REALLY that bad. I guess I just don't get it. or maybe it is because I work at a middle school and see how many parents are teaching their kids to say much worse, and be much worse then that. But really, when did it become so bad to not like someone? When did we lose our right to hate someone? I have read what he said, and listened to what he said, several times. I have shared it with family and friends. All the time asking, what is so bad about what he said? He is in no way an embarrassment to himself or his school. He is a student athlete, and human. To call someone an embarrassment for voicing and opinion is simple sad. Maybe we need to reevaluate what embarrassing actions really are.

  • @Apology NOT Accepted
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:18 a.m.

    The question asked Max was: "Do you feel vindicated after what happened last year?"
    He wasn't asked, "How do you feel?"
    Please don't just make stuff up to prove your point. You end up sounding silly and you lose all credibility.
    I don't agree with what Max said, and I wish he never said them. It took away from what ended up being a great game for BYU and Utah.

  • JSHarvey
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:15 a.m.

    Regarding whether it was really Max's statement, or one supplied for him: Of course it was, the statement contained a "word" which was not really a word "upmost" instead of "utmost". While BYU's administrators may be Machiavellian, most likely they can both spell and recognize nonsense "words".

  • Offense
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:13 a.m.

    I feel there IS a difference between the tenor of the fans from Utah and those from BYU. Though from both sides there are a small group that are obnoxious, annoying, disgusting, revolting, etc, most fans are respectful and good.

    However, I am more often offended by Utah fans. The profanity is offensive. The way that Utah fans distort BYU cheers with profanity is offensive. The way the Utah band tries to interrupt the BYU band by playing at the same time is offensive. The way that Utah players throw punches and cheap shots throughout the game is offensive. The way the Utah coaches must instill or tolerate cheap shots and punches by their athletes because the violations were so general among the players is also offensive.

    The way that so many BYU fans taunt other fans during the game is offensive. The BYU fan profanity is offensive. Comments by BYu athletes can be offensive.

    I guess as fans we can establish the game, to a degree, the way we want it. I am sure there are those who prefer to stay home and watch it on tv and avoid all the negatives in the stands. Lower attendance?

  • I don't get it
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:05 a.m.

    What did Ute fans hope was going to happen? That they would kick Max out of school? Come on, it may have been in poor taste, but he didn't do anything against the honor code. He wasn't cussing or using bigoted language. He said he hates an institution and the fans of that institution. It may have been ill advised, but even at BYU you have freedom of speech. Well sort of.

  • Whose Apology?
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:04 a.m.

    It's interesting that such as big deal is made of what Hall said and whether his apology is sufficient. Why is there no outcry about what the ewte fans did to his family? Where's the apology? What's the university's stance on their problems? The mistreatment of Hall's family is NOT an isolated issue among ewte fans, especially when they play BYU. Been there.

  • Radio
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:04 a.m.

    After the game I tuned in to KALL 700, the Utah radio broadcast. I was amazed at the disdain, disgust and hatred I could clearly hear in the voices of the radio men working that night. They went on and on about Max' comments, lambasting him and castigating him. Obviously displaying their poor sportsmanship. It appeared they were looking for anything to deflect the fact that Utah had just lost the game. They were using Max' comments to minimize Utah's loss.

  • Cats
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:00 a.m.

    Look, he apologized. It's over. What do you want? Blood?


    Anyway, what Max said was ABSOLUTELY TRUE. The TRUTH hurts, doesn't it.

  • Pathetic
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:57 a.m.

    As pathetic as Hall's comments are this is pretty weak of the fans and University to not hold him to a higher standard. When someone makes harmful comments publicly, the reprimands and apologies should have been just as public. I would like to hear the words from his mouth, not from a poorly spelled press release. I lost an enormous amount of respect for the BYU football program and Coach Mendenhall over this incident. I am afraid it will take some time for them to earn that back.

  • Endorsement by BYU
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:56 a.m.

    "What more could BYU do? They never once endorsed what he said."

    By refusing to act, BYU has endorsed his actions. The very clear message by BYU is that it, as an institution, is OK with what occurred.

    At least that is better than the surprising high minority of Max supporters on the various boards essentially saying that they vocally support and applaud Max's hate speech. The argument seems to be somewhat along the lines of "your fans are classless, so we can be too."


  • Half fast apology...
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:46 a.m.

    followed by stonewalling...

    Maximus and BYU administration appears to be following Tiger's example.

  • Silver Fox
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:46 a.m.

    Gee.....I sure am glad none of you have NEVER, EVER, spoken out in anger and frustration and said things you probably shouldn't have.

    Accept his apology and move on. Obviously this had been building up in him for a along time. To have YOUR family treated that way is truely a CLASSLESS behavior by the Ute fans.
    Pull the beam out of your eye!

  • It's called projecting
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:41 a.m.

    Isn't there a psychological term called projecting? Isn't that where you condemn others for the exact same characteristics for which you are guilty?

  • Max
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:33 a.m.

    Apology accepted.

    Stop the Hate.

    Go Utes!!!

  • Congratulations
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:00 a.m.

    Max Hall is BYU. He is a perfect example of why so many people hate everything about them. They are elitists... they preach that they are better. They look down on people who believe and and live differently. Their holier than thou attitude is sad and repulsive. Max Hall isn't sorry for the way he feels or what he said. He is sorry because now people know who he really is. Yes despite all the talk the people at BYU are no better or worse than anybody else. They can pretend all they want but the atmosphere there, the elitism, generates hate. Congratutations for a hard fought victory on the football field... and for showing your true colors.

  • Magna Ute
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:59 a.m.

    That "apology" was weak. Max threw a wet rag on the gasoline fire he just stoked up. Oh well. It does seem to make that Honor Code look hypocritical.

    I agree that the U of U and our fans need to take action to make things safer and more family friendly at the RES. I agree that Max had a right to be angry and express it. But the tone and broad brush painting with which he did was over the top and unbecoming of team captain at BYU. There are of course two sides to every story and we have only heard one side. It usually takes two to tango. Usually.

    I am appalled at the number of BYU fans who are defending his actions. Why are you held to a higher standard you ask? Because you claim to hold yourself to a higher standard! Because you have an Honor Code that you claim to live by.

    Congratulations to the rest of the BYU football team for a great victory. Most BYU players and fans are classy. (Max owes YOU a sincere apology.) I hope we can work together to tone things down in this great rivalry.

  • Principles
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:57 a.m.

    DiLuigi does a dance in the endzone, draws a penalty, and the principled coach holds him out for a game. Hall insults a whole community, draws a reprimand from the league, and is absolved with a back-handed apology. Bronco's principled approach to discipline is a touching thing to watch.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:56 a.m.

    There are def fans that go to these games that should never be allowed in. The Universities need to do a better job of making sure intoxicated fans are not allowed to come inside, where they they throw up, assault, and ruin the game. Along, with other obnoxious and rude fans.

    What has happened to civility? This is not a third world country. This is not a Taliban strong hold, and yet people act like barbarians when they go to these events.

  • Larry B.
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:53 a.m.

    I have always felt BYU football stood for more than just wins and accordingly was content that the Cougars were not capable of regularly winning games against better teams. Max Hall's comments, his "clarification" (it was not an apology) and BYU's response has shown me BYU football doesn't really stand for anything.

    I am done! I will not renew my season tickets that I have had since 1980 or contribute further to the Cougar Club.

  • Ralph
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:49 a.m.

    Perhaps Maxy's comments were just the continuation of the Y's "quest for perfection" !!

    Go Frogs!! Bust the BCS !!

  • speak so i may know thee
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:46 a.m.

    adds fuel to the flame , hiding from reality thru your words of hypocrisy!

  • TTo This Should Not be the End
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:40 a.m.

    You seem very adament that Coach Whit's wife and family were victims.

    Are you sure?

    I wonder who grabbed the phone from the BYU fan? Who pushed the camera into the face of the cameraman? One report said it was the same person.

    We saw the pictures of Mom and daughter but where was the son?

    Because you don't want to end this mess, why don't you call Coach Whit and ask him how each one of his family were invloved in the scuffle on the field. Maybe he can answer the questions.

    Maybe you are right? Maybe an apology is needed. But to who? The boy who lost his phone? The cameraman? Mom, son, daughter?

    Maybe it is better that this thing dies.

    I do hope the boy who lost his phone gets a new one!!

  • Disappointed
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:33 a.m.

    in the way Bronco and Holmoe acted in this embarrassed incident --no action

  • Scoreboard
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:32 a.m.

    Utah 2 BCS
    BYU still dreaming, chasing but never getting BCS

  • Go Cougars and Go Max
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:27 a.m.

    Max is a good guy. Leave him alone. He expressed his feelings and then realized that he had included folks who didn't deserve it. He then apologized. It is time that everyone get over it.

  • Totally Understand
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:20 a.m.

    I don't agree with what Max said and I don't think he should have said it, but I 100% understand it.

    If you have never been to a game at RES wearing BYU gear (especially after a U win) you have no basis of understanding.

    Ute fans can be some of the worst sports. I'm sure it's a fraction of the fan base, but this fraction is a blight on the U of U.

    Max needs to take a point on how to keep his mouth shut.
    The U needs to take a pointer on how to keep their fans under control better and encourage sportsmanship.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:16 a.m.

    What if someone said, on the news..........

    "I don't like mormons. In fact, I hate them – I hate everything about them," said Hall.
    "I hate their missionaries. I hate their members. I hate everything.”

    You people would be all over it.
    What would you do if Tom Hanks said it?

  • @IHateBYU
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:13 a.m.

    "A Church rule school that tolerates talk like that is not a school I would ever consider going to."

    Don't worry. You cannot spell or write a proper sentence. I am sure you never had a chance to be admitted anyway. If you did, you were likely delusional. Based on your 'deplorable' treatment in not being admitted, likely being spurned by one of its students in a hoped-for social avenue, and stilted impressions of BYU as a desireable but exclusionary environment, I am also sure you will be a life-long BYU hater.

    I don't believe there is a school in the country with higher standards. Those standards include of course forgiveness and understanding where it suits the transgression. Max spoke his mind in heated moments, fueled by past incidents. It is done, except in a few small minds.

    Utah has its fans, supporters, and honorable alumni. It also has a vulgar, vocal, deluded bunch of hooligans who don't deserve to be called fans. I am sure there are a few of those at BYU as well, as there are at most any school. It remains to be seen how the schools act to minimize it.

  • There is a bigger issue here
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:09 a.m.

    Congratulations to BYU for winning a hard-fought game against you rival.

    As a Ute fan, I am disappointed in the outcome of Saturday's football. More importantly, as a BYU graduate (I have degrees from both universities) and Latter-day Saint, I am far more disappointed with the BYU fans who agree with Max Hall's verbal, hateful barrage against all things Utah.

    I've watched BYU sports for 25 years. With rare exception, I am impressed with how BYU athletes conduct themselves on and off the field. The Cougar fanbase should follow their example. If the inappropriate words and actions of a subset of Utah fans is all it takes for you to resort to hate, you need to re-examine your professed convictions.

    Hall's words were probably fueled by the heat of the moment, and a grudge he has been nursing for the last year. Hopefully he can move beyond it. But to those who espouse his gross over-generalization of your neighbors, family members, and fellow church members, you should engage in some soul-searching. If you're honest with yourself, you won't like what you find.

    Good luck Utah, BYU, and TCU.

  • Boston Ute
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:58 a.m.

    Lets clean up this rivalry! The high road, win or lose, is always RESPECT. The classy fans show it, as well as the coaches and players, win or lose.

  • hail hail "Get a Life"
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:50 a.m.

    I could not agree with you more "Get a Life". Each news article about BYU and UofU is just like two (2) Little Kindergartners call "Mommy Mommy Johnnie Said Something bad about me".
    Come MWC Big “Little” leaguers BYU and Uof U. Think of something else to complain about such as why you are in the MWC and not some other conference where you may be able to grow up. I am an OSU fan and a resident of OK, but I played Soccer for the UofU way back when. OSU got stomped by OU last Saturday and low and behold, now take note BYU and UofU fans, we did not nor do not have anything like what you two schools are bickering about. I didn’t even hear bickering about BYU when they beat OU at the beginning of the season where BYU started the downfall of the bad season that OU had this year. Yes we to have revelries between our two Universities, OU and OSU, but golly be we are more human and grown up about it than the fans for BYU and UofU. Mac Hall is not the problem, YOU FANS ARE... Think about it.

  • Mizzou Blue
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:11 a.m.

    It's obvious to me that Dennis hasn't been to an Alabama/Auburn, Texas/OU/Tech or other rivalry week. He'd hear much worse being said & done. That being said, let's get off the Mormon vs Hall issue. What Max said, Max said. He didn't speak on behalf of the Church nor the University. Now he's been reprimanded & has apologized, good enough for me. I don't need a pound of flesh. Let it go.

  • Ike
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:49 a.m.

    Wait...who is the better team? Oh yeah, the team that won. Who was that again? Oh yeah...BYU!

  • cougs4ever
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:40 a.m.

    As one who has attended many games at RES, I can say that I do fully agree with Max's sentiments. It's a rough environment there. Still, Hall shouldn't have expressed them publicly the way he did. But now that he has, I for one, agree with him. Where do we go from here? I suppose this only add fuel to the fire of the BYU vs Utah rivalry. Good stuff. Go BYU!

  • Eric Appley
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:38 a.m.

    Well, of course, BYU's attitude is to forget the incident like it never happened because it does not fit the image.

  • not LDS
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:28 a.m.

    I am not LDS and I am more offended by the "holer than thou" comments which assume Hall embarrassed the LDS Church than I am by Max. Do you really think that all non-LDS base their religous preferences upon a the actions of a college quarterback? If anything I find a young man who is angry that his family was abused to be far more honest than a phoney person who believes it is more important to be "nice" than real.

    Also, U fans really need to clean up their act. Feigned offense at Max does not negate the fact that he is basically correct in his assesment of many U fans. Some truly are abusive. Those U fans embarasses me.

    If this incident leads to both universities cleaning up the rivalry - then perhaps something good can come from this.

  • Words
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:37 a.m.

    All you who are dumping on BYU for their response: what do you expect them to do? Kick Max out of school for his "comments"? He is a Senior who just played his last home game. He's done. He also proved that his inability to keep his cool and talent in those high profile games goes deeper. There are issues with Max that show he really can't handle the kind of stress and attention his talent as a top 20 QB could bring him in the future. I couldn't handle 10% of what he already has, so I'm not talking as an expert - just an observation. He melts down just too often. Where's the poise, the grit, the focus one expects from a Senior QB who's ready for the NFL? Like most QBs from BYU, he will fade away even if he ends up getting drafted (with a couple BIG exceptions). I really love BYU football and what Mendenhall has done, but Max's comments Saturday night are just sickening to me. I think Max lived the last 12 months for the opportunity he got Saturday night. That is very sad.

  • Enough Said
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:30 a.m.

    Then too much more and more and more and ....

  • gdog3gtb
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:24 a.m.

    Extreme judgments and hate are just not going to make your life any better people. Be happy when you win and forget about revenge and finding more pleasure in someone else losing. I believe too many BYU fans think this description fits only Utah. It might just be that higher level of execution relative to morality that justifies your hate eh?

    It cuts both ways but stinks nonetheless.

    I was at Iggy's rooting on the Utes a few weeks back (TCU game), and some fully decked out blue zoobies were there in a sea of red just to root for Utah to lose. Blue does it to.

    I lost my cool some with that and regret it. Hopefully Max will learn from his hatred. If the beer story is real, then that's a challenge to overcome. Nevertheless, overcoming is good and hate is bad.

    My temper can easily boil when I am told I am a lesser LDS member as a Ute.

  • gdog3
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:15 a.m.

    A Ute perspective here. I was not offended by Max's comments although I think they lacked class. Nevertheless, I don't really think any less of him. That said, I didn't think much of him before Saturday night.

    It's not that I hate Max. I just don't find his personality engaging. His attitude from what I can see is based on fear. Plus his play on the field sparks no thoughts of greatness despite his number of wins. Max is fearful in big games. The cougars won in spite of him on Saturday.

    Sure I am a Ute and I am going to be hard pressed to be to fond of any cougar. Funny thing though, I am actually somewhat partial to Austin Collie despite his boneheaded remarks along the lines of magic happening.

    The culture in Provo rubs me the wrong way. That's fine, many adopt it and find peace. Bottom line, I don't relate to Provoites. Many of them don't relate to me and many a Ute. Thus, our fringe dwellers pour beverages on people (beer, sasperilla, whatever).

    Lessons can be learned by Max and all of us concerning hate.

  • RE:What do you expect?
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:11 a.m.

    "Why does everyone hold BYU and Mormons to such a high standard?"

    The church and BYU set these standards of conduct, no smoking, no drinking, no coffee, short hair, no sex, go to church every week, but now it is okay to hate?

    This double standard can really hurt the church... do as we say, not as we do. If he had had a drink he would have been put on probation, but hating for something that happened a year ago? Come on! Suspend him one game!

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:07 a.m.

    To those who think BYU shows a double standard by saying this is settled, well it is not a double standard. The LDS Church also believes in repentance and forgiveness and that little mistakes can be overcome. Apparently BYU believes Hall has done what he needs to in order to repent (for lack of a better term) of what he said. We all make mistakes and say things we shouldn't have said from time to time. So I say forgive him and move on... of course that is easier said then done.

  • Not surprised....
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:05 a.m.

    BYU's silence speaks volumes.

  • BYU fans?
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:32 p.m.

    To the BYU fans who condone Max Hall's behavior and use this comment board to take a swipe at the U - please don't. Leave the game on the field. To continue with the anger even days after the event is surely not right. I can understand anger in the heat of the moment. I am less understanding of it days later.

    Good luck to the Utes and the Cougars in their bowl games. And, best wishes to TCU as they make the case for retiring the BCS.

  • The NIT
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:29 p.m.

    That is a disappointing response from BYU as an institution and Mr. Mendenhall as a head coach. Mr. Hall has left only one legacy that will be remembered and that is how he spewed hate toward thousands of people - most of whom are of his same religion and could have supported him if he ever played after college. He was selfish and took the spotlight off his own teammates and his coaches. BYU knows it's not over - but they appear to pretend that it is.

  • Liz
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:19 p.m.

    "I believe that it was Christ who said that he who is without sin should cast the first stone."


    Grow up.

  • Did The Adults Vacate BYU
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:15 p.m.

    I am having a tough time understanding why BYU let that blame them and not me apology and I only hate a few people apology get published. Mr. Hall is not a 12-year-old boy that needs to have excuses made for him. He is a 24 year-old man that is about to graduate from the LDS sponsored university.

    Is BYU content to let Mr. Hall fail both quests? Did the adults vacate BYU?

  • citizen16
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:09 p.m.

    Did someone at BYU say the "h" word and got the UofU fans all worked up? I can't remember...all I remember is the final score and seeing George run into the end zone wearing that classic jersey.

    According to legend and news reports of the day, the first edition of the BYU-Utah rivalry ended in an all out brawl between these two teams so maybe we have all actually progressed since then.

    What has really surprised me is the number of Utah fans who have posted on these boards that they too have been bothered by the behavior of some of their fans. As a BYU fan who doesn't live in Utah, I don't follow their football program so I didn't realize until this weekend that some local reporter who is a Utah grad wrote an article about being afraid to go to games at RES (or something like that).

    Max shouldn't have over generalized, but the issue at the core of his comments is a problem that even some Utah fans recognize. Any chance this whole mess will help tone things back a little bit? (but hopefully not too much...)

  • The worst thing about this
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:00 p.m.

    Is the fact that it reveals the character of so many.

    Hall even apologized (though not personally, as mentioned) and he got reprimanded by the MWC. The ultimate sign that it was a dumb tirade and the highest level of unsportsmanship.

    Yet, it's most disappointing that there are BYU fans who still try to defend Max Hall. I am a Y fan and I'm embarrassed that some Y fans continue to act like they and Max Hall are the moral beacon just trying to point out the disgrace that takes place at the U.

    TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELVES! I was at the game Saturday cheering for the Y, and I was embarrassed by my fellow fans who went out of their way to taunt Utah fans, who stereotyped all U fans as drunks. These are the same fans who criticized Max Hall when he played poorly, but now applaud him when he lashes out at those they dislike (even though they forget he also ripped on the 'unloyal fans').

    THERE ARE BAD FANS ON BOTH SIDES!! There should be better sportsmanship - but PLEASE, don't keep pointing the fingers just at your rivals. It's naive.

  • Sherman Beck
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:56 p.m.

    I echo this should not be the end. "Hall's comments ARE only a symptom of a larger disease... The U & BYU need to be talking about it and put some solutions in place. Certainly this is an essential move.

  • Re: Re: Apology NOT Accepted
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:51 p.m.

    Max Hall stated he made those comments because of things that were "allegedly" done to his family over a year ago. When someone thinks about or dwells on something for over a year, that definitely qualifies as premeditation.

  • Hypocrites up north
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:44 p.m.

    I am simply amazed at the audacity of those who have been railing on Max. For all of those who choose to involve religion in this, I believe that it was Christ who said that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. Max shouldn't have overgeneralized like he did, but there was an awful lot of truth in his words. I doubt that there is a person in this world that hasn't said something he/she shouldn't have in the heat of the moment like, for example, all of the critics on these comment boards. With that said, this rivalry is getting out of hand and something needs done about it!

  • This Should NOT Be the End!
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:30 p.m.

    So Max Hall apologizes, which is better than NOT apologizing. And so that's the end of it as far as he's concerned. Fine, we are adults at BYU--at least, the majority of us, I think--and the adults at the athletic department can make that decision.

    But I do NOT think this matter should be dropped by the institutions themselves. This rivalry is WAY out of control, as shown by the fans themselves. Abusive U fan behavior is well-documented, and Hall did have a point in criticizing THAT much, though he went too far.

    But BYU's still missing something, as is the U. Where's the apology to Jamie Whittingham? Where was the security for her? Where's BYU putting its money where its mouth is and teaching its fans to turn the other cheek? Where's the U taking its own steps to rein in its own out-of-control fans?

    Hall's comments are only a symptom of a larger disease: A hate-filled rivalry that's going to escalate and boil over sometime into some REAL disaster. And the U and BYU had BETTER be talking about THAT. ASAP.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:29 p.m.

    You UTE people sure can dish it out but cry like little babies when it comes back at you.

    Yeah, Max blew it and should have kept his comments private. So should have Morgan Scalley. But hey, they didn't and you move on.

    Good for you.

  • Re: Apology NOT Accepted
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:25 p.m.

    Umm... get your facts right. It was at most 30 minutes after the game, in fact, he was still in his jersey. What he said was classless and dumb, but I definitely wouldn't say premeditated.

  • HIs apology should have been
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:19 p.m.


  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:18 p.m.

    Excuse me, yes I am that dead horse you're kicking. Can you please stop now? I'm tired of it...

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:13 p.m.

    Give it a rest already!! BYU won!! Utah lost!! That is all that matters!

  • When is an apology not an
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:07 p.m.


    When you spend your "apology" justifying your behavior.

  • Utah grad
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:51 p.m.

    I went to the U and graduated with a poly sci degree. I have four kids. I don't take them to the games at the U. It's embarrassing. I don't want to have to explain what all the new words they hear mean. I love the U, but the swearing at the BYU fans has to stop. Sure, I hear it on both sides, but who says it more? Come on, not even close. Hall may not have been tactful or even had appropriate timing/context, but his thoughts were right on. U fans, we need to treat the Y fans with more respect, even if just to show them how to treat us.

  • Look in the mirror
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:48 p.m.

    Hall was definitely out of line. The funny thing, though, is how he's been castigated in the online discussion boards by the same people who do the same thing every week. What did Hall say? That he hated the Utes and then made blanket statements about their entire fan base. Um, that's what ALL the obnoxious posters post on discussion boards each week on both sides! People who are criticizing Max need to look in the mirror and see if they are doing the same thing, only not in press conferences and behind the anonymity of screen names.

    So I agree, he was wrong, but I hope everyone moves on and forgives because he didn't do anything more or less than what dozens and dozens of fans do on the discussion boards each week.

  • Apology NOT Accepted
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:37 p.m.

    An apology for comments that were premeditated? I think NOT. These comments were given after an hour after the game and after the media asked him a simple wide-open question of "How do you feel." This "apology" is just having good PR so he doesn't get trashed when he goes out into public.

    He said what he said and that's OK by me. Plenty of Ute fans or BYU fans say this stuff. But an apology for something he planned? Right...

  • Liz
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:32 p.m.

    Even the comments on this board are utterly absurd. I'm LDS and am totally embarrassed by the remarks. Things such as "boo hoo yewt fans" and "stick to women's gymnstics, football just isn't your game", sound like they're coming from third graders - totally immature third graders.

    You're the kind of people that make us all look like "holier than thous". No wonder people want to stay away from us.

  • Wayne Rout
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:31 p.m.

    Political correctness strikes again. Hall was correct...maybe he should not have said it...but he was right. Seeing the bulk of the Utah fans before and during the game plus the way they conduct themselves when their home games are played. The leadership at Utah needs to take action to get their fans under control.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:26 p.m.

    I don't see that much "Tradition, Spirit, Honor." (from the BYU football website). That is why everyone expects a higher standard from BYU. It's what they preach and post all over their website.

    P.S. I am not a fan of either school but I am disappointed in BYU yet again. He should be benched for at least half the bowl game. That is a higher standard.

  • Uh
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:04 p.m.

    that's great that BYU has declared this "resolved," but they know darn well that it's not resolved until the public is good and ready to stop talking about it. And that's not going to happen for a long, long time. Nice legacy you've left for yourself, Mr. Hall.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:59 p.m.

    what hasn't dawned on Max Hall yet is that he has completely shot himself in the foot. His win won't be remembered. Only those incredibly dumb comments will. It's really it's own punishment, and a good one at that.

  • Paul
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:57 p.m.

    some years ago I attended a BYU-UVA football game in VA. It was a hard fought game and we won it at the last moment 38 to 35. As we were leaving the game, many people said to us what a good game it was and how they enjoyed it. I had some car trouble and a UVA grad help me out. We should treat the games much like these UVA and let the play stay on the field.
    Max was wrong in what he said and should have let his pads do the talking.

  • ogmson
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:50 p.m.

    It is certainly true that we hope Max learned a lesson to think clearer before speaking quickly.

    The most amazing thing of all? Truly the most incredulous of all the comments and post-comment fallout?

    It has nothing to do with Max's comments after the game at all. It has to do with all the condemning comments made by mostly Ute fans who are the very ones who have said the most disgusting, nasty, hateful and mean-spirited comments about Max for the past 36 months. The very ones who speak of hypocrisy are in fact hypocritical themselves. Those who speak loudest of Max needing to feel embarassed are the ones most embarassing. How sad that is. How sad it is that we all continue to contribute to the hate in the rivalry.

  • It's over
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:50 p.m.

    Having made enough dumb mistakes myself I can now let this go.

    Max had the dignity to apologize for his overbroad comments while clarifying his remaining frustration with the Ute fans who assaulted his family.

    In the heat of the moment he said things that he obviously wished he hadn't - hence the apology. Coach Mendenhall said this morning that Max's apology came only from him.

    I have done enough dumb things in my life despite my knowledge that I should do better to be able to forgive him. I have experienced those mornings where i have awoken with regret for the things I have said and the way I have acted the day before.

    Where would any of us be if we couldn't be forgiven for our moments of behavior where we are far less than who we should be?

  • Laughing
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:47 p.m.

    Ohhhh BOO poor picked on Yewt fans!

    Maybe you should pack it in and stick to Womens Gymnastics......Football just isn't your game!

  • What is the difference
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:46 p.m.

    between Max Hall's words AFTER a heated game and M. Scalley or P. Krueger's words BEFORE a game in 2004 or 2008? Both Utah players proclaimed their hatred of BYU and its program. Their words are video taped and easily found on the internet, sponsored by the U. It goes both ways, people. But you'll find the U didn't tell Krueger or Scalley to apologize after they pronounced their hate for the Y.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:43 p.m.

    The coaches, players and fans have a lot more to be concerned about than who wins the stinking game...I'm shocked at the behavior of the U fans...not at what Max said. There is so much hatred coming from the fans. This is horrible.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:40 p.m.

    I wouldn't want my mom and grandma spit upon, soaked with beer and physically assaulted. What in the world is going on here? I'm all for the moratorium on games between these two schools, until something is done about the immature and obscene fans. This is ridiculous.

  • U of U fan
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:39 p.m.

    I wish my fellow fans were not such an embarrassment. I don't feel comfortable taking my family to games at the U. I once saw a Utah fan try to beat up another Utah fan because the other Utah fan was not wearing red to the game. Pathetic.

    I will not send any of my kids to school there. It's Utah St., S. Utah, or even maybe BYU over the U for them.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:38 p.m.

    The last decade or two has bred more vulgar young people who don't have the class the keep quiet in the first place. I don't give a darn about the stupid rivalry. It's just a game. Grow up and get some class Y and U, both.

  • Re: BYU not all that perfect
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:27 p.m.

    I'm sorry, but if you had any intelligence at all you would realize that Ute players have said this in the past and will say similar things in the future. Alex Smith said something similar within the past year but BYU fans don't throw a fit because we are not a bunch of crying babies. Utes lost, deal with it!

  • To "IhateBYU" ...
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:26 p.m.

    I'm sure everyone at BYU will be terribly disappointed that you're not planning to enroll.

    Most of those who complain about Max's comments are being silly. Max apologized. What more do you want? Truth is, Max is a class act.

    Incidentally, video of two prominent Utah players is circulating in which they express their hatred for BYU. And Utah is taking what action against them?

  • unbelievable
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:24 p.m.

    Hall's "classless" comments are an embarrassment to himself, the team, the school, and the LDS church. And it is unbelievable that they would simply slide it under the rug.

  • BYU Morals
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:22 p.m.

    Being that Max is the face of BYU, hard to believe that they'd look the other way. Somehow you can get expelled for watching MTV, but get a pardon for speaking hatred. So what's more important BYU? Football or morals? It's a game that doesn't mean anything. How the morals have fallen. You wont see this at ND, TCU, SMU

  • Parker West
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:22 p.m.

    I can't say utah fans are classless. I'm still open to finding one with class, but after 45 years, still looking. I'm certainly not going to find a classey utah fan on this comment board. But I'm still open that they exist.

  • Life lesson
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:20 p.m.

    Max is and will continue to learn from and pay a price for his comments. The university doesn't need to pile on. He will face the consequences for years. The media will make sure of that. I predict you will here that audio played annually by the media for the next 10-15 years. They want to see this kind of thing happen. If you watched the Sunday night sports shows, you will notice that the media who posed the questions were fully aware that they could push the right buttons to get Max to unload. He took the bait.

  • oregoncougarfan
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:20 p.m.

    RE: Ute fan's reaction

    Thanks! We need to all forgive and forget and remember that football is just football and not life! Let's move on!

  • This Ute fan loves Max!
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:20 p.m.

    Thank you, Max, for shedding light on some of the most revolting acts our fans are doing. I know it goes both ways, but its pathetic that Utah fans are sinking to such depths to express their dislike of BYU. What role does Max's wife or mother have in the rivarly? nOne! As a mother of two boys who went to the U and another who went to the Y, I can't believe Utah fans would treat another human being, esp. women, in such demeaning ways.

  • Leave Max alone
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:17 p.m.

    The guy apologized, people need to let it die down.

    Max was clearly frustrated, I think he wanted to beat the Utes 42-10, or something like that, but his statistics vs Utah were quite a bit worse than they were against TCU. He didn't get the blowout he was dreaming about and blew his top.

    Clearly not Max's best day, on or off the field.

  • BYU Fan
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:10 p.m.

    Even though Max Hall's public comments in regards to the U of U are inexcusable, I understand thoroughly how he feels. As an undergrad at BYU I attended a football at the U where my friends and I were mistreated by a vocal minority. U fans made unprovoked derogatory comments towards us and made threats of bodily harm. They also followed us into the parking lot where they challenged us to a fight. Fortunately, we took the higher and walked away.

    I've attended BYU football away games at many schools (including Utah State, Cal, and SDSU) and have never been mistreated in such a fashion. I think a public dialogue in one form or another should be organized on both campuses by Mountain West officials in regards to hospitality and good sportmanship. If not, maybe a football moratorium should take place between both schools to allow things to cool down and give people time to put things in their proper perspective.

    A good old fashion rivalry is a wonderful thing as long as people feel safe (physically and emotionally) are allowed to enjoy themselves in a healthy fashion.

  • Ute fan's reaction
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:09 p.m.

    I, too, was appalled by the behavior of my fellow fans at the game last year. Why do our fans have to add obscenities to every BYU cheer? It does make us look classless. And if my family was treated the way his was, I don't know how I would react, but probably more vehemently than Max did. Thank you for apologizing Max. You spoke too quickly and overstated your feelings. Understandable. Hopefully we fans can take a lesson from you and try to turn the hatred down in our rivalry.

  • Get a Life
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:08 p.m.

    The media and fan(atics) on both sides who want to keep fanning the flames need to all move along.

    My wife was in the Ohio State marching band. Her trips to the team up north (Michigan) [note: Urban Meyer stole that trick from Woody] were eventful to say the least. Max's comments and all this ruckus is child's play compared to what goes on in the Michigan/Ohio State rivalry. This silly bickering is like watching two Kindergartners slap at each other on the playground. BYU/Utah is Little League compared to the other real rivalries. I find the religious overtones disgusting and an embarrassment to both schools.

  • Strider228
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:07 p.m.

    What do you want him to do? He's recognized what he said was wrong, he's apologized for it.

    What more could BYU do? They never once endorsed what he said.

  • Susan
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:06 p.m.

    Why does everyone hold BYU and Mormons to a higher standard? Do you not listen to your own conferences? Do you not follow your teachings? Even my church teaches not to hate. I feel really sad for Max.

  • kiaoraguy
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:04 p.m.

    Lessons Learned! The rivalry is just a bit caustic, tone it down, keep your hands to yourself, and us BYU fans should remember who we are at all times.

  • BYU not all that perfect
    Nov. 30, 2009 8:00 p.m.

    BYU is not at all perfect...and the reason why people expect high things of them is because that is what they preach. I am LDS but prefer that none of my kids go to school there. They are a bunch if hypocrits. U of U is the only in state school for me, and if a player from the U had made the same comments it would have been inexcusable. But since it was a Y player it is water under the bridge.

  • Dennis
    Nov. 30, 2009 7:57 p.m.

    That's it? No more to say?

    I'm stunned that a football rivalry, that should be fun, could get this much out of control. We'd all be appalled if we heard hate language like this at the Alabama/Auburn, Texas/Texas Tech or Ohio/Michigan games. The worst part of this is that 40% of those polled by KSL about whether it was okay for Max Hall to say what he said after the BYU/Utah football game, responded, "yes". I don't know what I can make of the 59% that said it wasn't okay--there is no way to tell, but the 40% that said yes--there is no question about what they meant.

    If the BYU football program is "one of the biggest missionary tools" the LDS Church has, then maybe it's time to reconsider it's value. I'm an LDS Christian and believe that we should be held to a higher standard where the language of "hate" doesn't belong anywhere, especially in sports and in a game.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 7:57 p.m.

    It's unfortunate that Max didn't have the guts or the dignity to issue his apology on video so that we know it actually came from him. Hate isn't supposed to be a virtue that BYU espouses, yet one of their most visibly ambassadors spews it on live TV after HE WINS. If BYU truly cared about sportsmanship, they would do more than to let it go at what appears to be a prepared statement and show the rest of the conference that they don't endorse his comments. Otherwise, they appear to be content to "turn the other cheek". Gee, Max, "What would Jesus do?"

  • Did BYU Just Punt?
    Nov. 30, 2009 7:51 p.m.

    BYU's standards are now only equal to those of the Mountain West Conferences? That is truly surprising. I would say disappointing, but I really want to believe that BYU is doing something in private to teach Mr. Hall lessons that a 24-year-old graduate of the flagship university for the LDS faith should have learned. I hope they are doing more than just punting on this opportunity to teach and mend.

  • What do you expect?
    Nov. 30, 2009 7:45 p.m.

    BYU fans expect UofU fans to be classless: they meet all expectations.

    UofU fans expect BYU fans to be perfect angel: they don't all meet these expectations.

    Why does everyone hold BYU and Mormons to such a high standard?

    I may not agree w/ Max Hall's hate talk, but frankly I don't really blame him...there are a lot of UofU fans that thoroughly hate, despise, anthing to do w/ the LDS church and BYU. A lot of the UofU fans are former Mormons and can't get over it.

  • Dennis
    Nov. 30, 2009 7:44 p.m.

    That's it? No more to say?

    I'm stunned that a football rivalry, that should be fun, could get this much out of control. We'd all be appalled if we heard hate language like this at the Alabama/Auburn, Texas/Texas Tech or Ohio/Michigan games. The worst part of this is that 40% of those polled by KSL about whether it was okay for Max Hall to say what he said after the BYU/Utah football game, responded, "yes". I don't know what I can make of the 59% that said it wasn't okay--there is no way to tell, but the 40% that said yes--there is no question about what they meant.

    If the BYU football program is "one of the biggest missionary tools" the LDS Church has, then maybe it's time to reconsider it's value. I'm an LDS Christian and believe that we should be held to a higher standard where the language of "hate" doesn't belong anywhere, especially in sports and in a game.

  • GOOD!
    Nov. 30, 2009 7:37 p.m.

    GOOD! Because I am sick and tired of hearing all about it!