to responder to Yale Graduate: your response does not seem very moromon like.
MissouriJoe,"Why would a church want to be in the position to decide
which faithful disciple is capable of being an engineer or doctor or lawyer?""I'm not questioning that BYU is a university. I'm questioning why the
church sponsors it. Mormon kids could just as easily go to their best suited
state or private schools."The most capable students earn the highest
return on their degree. Attending BYU makes those students more likely to find
LDS spouses and stay active members. So, selecting the most capable students
helps maximize future tithing donations, which finances the church's goals. The
church is behaving rationally to maximize (net) tithing income given its
constraints.More broadly, it's clearly a bargain for anyone, member
or non-member, who doesn't mind (or enjoys) the religious/behavioral
requirements and environment.
The BYU undergrad education prepared me to compete with Ivy League students in
an Ivy League grad school. Great education, great atmosphere and the greatest
bargain in undergrad education. Thanks BYU.
This is a puzzling move. In this "Great Recession" in which families are
struggling more than they have in decades, the "Christlike" Church and its
flagship institution of higher education decides to "help out" struggling
families by... raising tuition? Requiring people who have less money to pay MORE
money for education? How does that make any sense at all?
The requirements to get into BYU Idaho are considerably less than those of BYU.
If your child can't get into BYU I, then perhaps college is not for them. Not
saying the students at BYU-I aren't also strong academically, only that getting
IN is easier than it is for the Y. I've known a lot of students who start out
at BYU - I and then later transfer to BYU. If you want to help your child
get into BYU, look into the recommendations on their website BEFORE your child
starts high school. This way you'll know long before your child applies whether
or not he has a good chance of being accepted.
You, likely are the complete joke. The educated and high minded are the
complete joke. I would take the humble BYU student over the most educated and
self-agrandizing Yale or Harvard Grad any day. For in that choice, one would
likely be closer to God than by choosing the some "man-made" institution of
self-supposed higer learning. Hope you get that camel through the
eye of the needle bub!
Although mistaken, I understand how "concerned Mom" feels. Her disappointment
is real. My daughter had straight As in high school, qualified for her High
School All State Choirs and Orchestra annually, was very active in church
service, and was even awarded a music scholarship (by the Music Department)at
BYU (Provo) last Fall. Yet BYU turned her down for the Fall 2008 semester. The
only reason we can figure -- she did poorly on her ACT. I don't like using ACTs
as an indicator of a person's ability to succeed. Our daughter has since
continued on at ASU with a full scholarship in the Music program with straight
As. We felt angry that BYU didn't recognize her academic potential at the time,
similar to the "concerned mom." Yet with the growth of the church we realize
judgments (whether good or bad) must be made to fill a limited number of seats.
I do wonder if the same scholarly entrance standards are required for all the
students getting sports scholarships, or is the "bar" lowered to have a good
football team, for example?
That's really not so bad. The School of Hard Knocks just raised their tuition 6
I thought that we paid tithithing because it was a commandment that brings those
who follow it many blessings. (It sure has our family) The Lord can directed it
to be spent however he sees fit. I am greatful for BYU and the institution it is
they may use my tithing with no complaints from me! I will tell u that it is by
merit that students get in to BYU. My son was accepted and desided not to go. A
friend whos husband is very rich and very famous who is a BYU graduate said that
not one of her children had been accepted at BYU.(she told my son he was nuts
for not going) So Concerned Mom it is not the conections or the money it is
meeting the qualifications! My husband talked to a General Authority one day who
told him they can not interseed on an applicants behalf they need to qualify
with grades, ACTs, service, extrc. activities, seminary, etc. There are only so
many spots and BYU does great getting as many kids in as possible. Look at the
changes at Idaho and Provo to help have space for more students.
Sound like the Church need to redirect some funds to City Creek Center. THis is
what I heard anyway.
BYU is a complete joke.
According to a few websites I found, BYU has a 78% acceptance rate. People tend
to forget that most people who apply get in (8 out of 10). The reason it's
still the most academically prestigious school in Utah is because more of the
better students are drawn by the price and a lot of people weed themselves out
of the mix and don't even apply. Most of my friends who would have liked to go
there made it sound like they didn't get in, when in reality they didn't finish
the application. I wouldn't call 78% of applicants the aristocracy of the
When I was in undergrad (late 90's), the U was comparible in price to BYU. I'm
not sure if they still are but I consider it a good deal. Both are a steal for
Utah residents and church members. They should be pleased with the academics
avaliable to them.
To Rick | 9:36 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009,Are you Rick Mcbride?
@ MissouriJoeThe church provides tons of opportunities for spiritual
learning and growth outside of BYU. BYU hardly needs to become a seminary
itself.The selection criteria has become more demanding simply
because church membership has grown creating more demand and families are more
affluent and can afford college in a world that requires it in many occupational
fields. Since the primary role is to provide an education, it makes perfect
sense that academic performance plays a major role. I don't think this stuff is
rocket science.Lastly, I highly doubt you are completely baffled why
the church sponsors BYU and how the church and the church membership benefits.
Also, forget the baloney that the Church is discriminating against non-Mormons.
It is a Mormon school, so of course that's their target audience, but they are
very open to non-Mormons attending. As a BYU faculty member I can assure you
that in our graduate program, we would love to have more non-members apply. But
yes, there is a "scholarship" benefit for members of the Church that makes their
tuition cheaper. There's nothing wrong for that.
BTW, BYU accepts 60% of the students who apply. That's very high. So it's not as
selective as you think (although, granted, many students don't apply if they
know their grades aren't competitive---average BYU GPA is about 3.7). BYU-Idaho
accepts 90% of its applicants.So bottom line, is if you want your
child to have a BYU experience, they are almost assured of the chance to do so,
either at BYU-provo or BYU-Idaho. The Church is very interested in making the
opportunity available to everyone. If your GPA is not the best, then go to
BYU-Idaho. That's still a wonderful educational experience.
Students who work hard and perform well can get into BYU. I have 5 children
and all attended BYU. We are not rich, famous, or well-connected. Several of
my children earned scholarships that brought the cost down but it was a bargain
anyway.I'm grateful that the Church runs a high quality educational
institution that is available for members to attend. The Church has decided
that it's better to provide a spiritual learning environment for some of the
members than to provide for none.In a similar way, the Church
provides the PEF program to educate some members (but not all) because it can't
educate them all.The Church provides food, clothing and relief add
to some, but not all, because it can't provide for all.
My wife & I attended BYU during late 60's & early 70's. Both very poor & worked
our Y through school. Some of the fondest memories of our lives have been
associated with this great university. If you're fortunate enough to get in as
we were & apply yourself, you come out a far better person. You can't put a
price tag on its value!
I don't agree with your comment: "those of us who are not among the aristocracy
of the Church end up subsidizing the children of the rich, famous, and
"connected"" I believe the selection process at BYU primarily focuses on grades
& ACT scores. Some exceptions occur by the sports teams recruiting athletes,
which is another topic of discussion.HOWEVER...I do understand
the frustration evident in your other comment: "BYU effectively rejects most of
the students from good, tithing-paying families!" This must be especially
frustrating if you pay tithing, your children desire to attend BYU, but were
turned down.I would imagine it is equally frustrating for people who
are financially strapped, working multiple jobs, can't afford tuition at
state-sponsored universities, e.g. Utah State, University of Utah, and yet are
expected to pay State Income Tax, a part of which goes to subsidize tuition at
these schools.When one is denied something, but due to how things
are structured, is required to help fund it for someone else...well, that is
Education is, indeed, a goal of the LDS Church. If you cannot make it into BYU,
try BYU Idaho.I simply do not see an issue here. I've read some
silly arguments on the boards, but that was one of the dumbest. BYU is already
as large as it can get, and they have worked on ways to promote students to
graduate as quickly as possible so they can further increase their numbers.BYU also fits the goals of the LDS Church through its broadcasting
ability (KBYU), the research that is done in the Department of Religion, the
devotionals given weekly that are broadcast for everyone to listen to (yes, even
the mere mortals that are not accepted).The LDS church also hires
accountants to go over finances in SLC. Should we be up in arms that they do
not offer the ability to work as an accountant to everyone?
BYU's tuition is outrageously low -- far below even the in-state rates of many
public universities. Why? Because the Church is subsidizing the majority of the
real cost of a BYU education. Why? Good question. A more minimal subsidy would
still give the Church powerful control over BYU and allow for other educational
investments in other parts of the world. Hundreds of millions of dollars are
being put into the BYUs to subsidize tuition rates that, in comparative terms,
are almost nothing -- and the beneficiaries are often more well off Church
I teach at a small two-year community college in another state. The tuition is
about the same as it is ayt BYU. It is lauded throughout the state for being
the best buy in the state. The students here complain constantly about how
expensive it is. People are never satisfied. Anyone who complains
about tuition at BYU has obviously never done a comparative analysis of tuition
at other institutions--either private or public.Why should the
church subsidize tuition for students who are less capable/motivated/serious?
(And perhaps less spiritually worthy than the parents think.) The church
provides FREE tuition at LDS institutes at many colleges and universities
throughout the US where students can get an LDS exeperience, no matter what
their academic and spiritual achievements are. For some, this is a
far better choice. Some students simply not academically prepared for the
rigorous academic standards at BYU. (One of my sons would have to work hard to
succeed at the school where I teach, and the demands there are far fewer and
BYU is expensive for people who pay tithing but can't send their child there.
We the tithe payers are paying tuition some place else and subsidizing students
in Provo. Please don't complain Cougars.
what a dunce. You suggest that BYU should accept no one because they can't
accept everyone? Sounds like someone didn't get into BYU and is quite bitter.
waah waah. you wouldn't believe how many people apply to BYU. They can't accept
everyone. So they choose the best or most promising students -- when the demand
exceeds the supply, a school can do that. So maybe you should have encouraged
your children to get better grades and to excel in other areas. Don't tell me
how you can't stand BYU. Based on your attitude I can guess why your kids didn't
make the cut.
To MJB - Exactly! Monasteries teach religious principles to faithful adherents.
It seems a good fit for a church to be in the business of running
monasteries.Universities teach math, engineering, history, etc.
Students learn skills, graduate, and go on to make money. Why would a church
want to be in the position to decide which faithful disciple is capable of being
an engineer or doctor or lawyer? It's a dilemma intrinsic to any church that
runs a university. BYU and Mormons, Notre Dame and Catholics, Oral Roberts U.
and - well I don't know which denomination that is.I'm not
questioning that BYU is a university. I'm questioning why the church sponsors
it. Mormon kids could just as easily go to their best suited state or private
schools. There are plenty of good ones to chose from.And, a minor
point, most universities aren't selective. BYU is positioning itself as an
elite, selective school. But that's a strategy, not a requirement. I think
it's a fairly recent strategy (past couple of decades).
re: missouri joeYou want to know why BYU is selective? BECAUSE IT'S
A UNIVERSITY....... A LEARNING INSTITUTION. If it admitted on spiritual quality
it would be a monastery not a university.
To Zagruda Guy: Yes you're right - BYU is a meritocracy. As are Harvard, Yale,
University of Chicago, Stanford, etc. My question is, how do you
harmonize the need to reject faithful members due to academic inadequacy with
the mission of the Church?
I agree with Concerned Mom. The selection criteria are set by the governing
body in order to position BYU as a "selective" school. That's a decision. It
means many, many spiritually dedicated, but less academically talented kids are
rejected. And they are rejected by the same institution to which, in all
aspects, they're loyal.The marginal benefits of attending BYU relate
to future earning potential, which in turn, relates to social status. It is
inappropriate for a religious organization to be in an enterprise that must
differentiate based on talent and test scores. I just don't
understand why the church is in the education business when there are abundant
public and private university alternatives. Why create the dilemma of having to
reject kids (and their families) due to their God-given weaknesses? Why create
a tiered system where one designated school is selective and elite?
Get a clue paper boy. This article has nothing to do with athletics. Besides,
BYU doesn't need the PAC 10.
$65.00 is a steal compared to the increase in tuition at Washington State
University. It is cheaper for our son to attend BYU-I than to stay in is own
hometown and live in his own bedroom. Our other two children went to USU to
have the LDS experience and had the privilege of paying $6,000 per year just for
out of state tuition. Of course they couldn't become residents after 1 year, it
takes 2. That totaled $12,000 per year times 2 children= $24,000--not including
tuition for classes or living expenses. That was what was a rip off!!
Concerned Mom: I am sorry if your family members have not been admitted to BYU.
But it has to be for a reason other than your lack of "connections." I was
admitted to BYU with zero "connections"--I was a new convert, came from a
smokin' drinkin' family, didn't know the words to the hymns and wouldn't have
known a GA if they had knocked me over the head w/ a 2x4. Didn't even know what
Relief Society meant! Most of my roommates were from humble dirt-farming
I earned my undergraduate and graduate degrees from BYU. It's a bargain. Even if
tuition doubled, it would still be a bargain. It's a first class education from
a private university at a bargain rate.
If BYU will double their Tuition, they can become a prestigous research school
and BYU can then be admitted into the PAC 10. Small price to pay to run with
the big dogs.
I graduated from BYU in 1999 with no debt. Dental school at Marquette was over
$35,000.00 every year. I have heard it is over $40k now. My BYU education was a
steal and I can only hope my kids can go there in the future.
@Concerned Mom -- BYU is a meritocracy. The students with the best grades in
tough classes and test scores get in. In marginal cases, they also look at
factors such as service projects done by the applicants and their degree of
extra-curriculur involvement.I strongly suspect that even a GA's son
or daughter gets exactly the same consideration as anyone else -- if you are
good enough, you get in, otherwise you don't.If you don't think that
admission on the basis of who is most qualified is the appropriate criteria,
then what would you use instead? Given that the Church has 13 million members,
it is impossible for everyone to be admitted who is "from good, tithing-paying
If you don't think BYU is worth it, you don't have to go there. It isn't as if
students don't have an alternative. If non-Mormons don't think it is worth it at
2x, then they don't have to go there. It's not as if they don't have an
alternative. College tuition has been rising across the country for
decades. The inflation rate is not the best measuring rod, because university
costs have to do with all the expenses associated with a university, and they
have been rising faster than inflation.
Students don't pay extra for more prestigious programs (unless you are referring
to grad school). Undergrads all pay the same rate whether they are in the
business school or sociology.
No matter what it costs to attend BYU, it is worth every penny! I have benefited
beyond words as a result of the awesome education I received at BYU. The entire
time I was there I was humbled and honored by the fact that I knew hundreds of
other people would have been thrilled to take my place as a student there
I attended BYU from 1971-1975 (tuition $300 per semester the entire 4 years) and
was not from "the aristocracy, rich, famous or connected" (and not from
Utah)...I just happened to have good grades so I was admitted. Quit trying to
blame BYU for your children not being admitted - they weren't the best students
to apply that year.
Who cares if you get a discount on BYU tuition because you pay tithing? In its
efforts to become the "Harvard of the West" under Holland, BYU effectively
rejects most of the students from good, tithing-paying families! If you can't
get into BYU, then you can't take advantage of the tuition and tithing "credit"!
Therefore, those of us who are not among the aristocracy of the Church end up
subsidizing the children of the rich, famous, and "connected" with our tithing
dollars PLUS we have to pay higher tuition at some other school! I am so
disgusted with it, I can't stand it.
Those who are complaining that BYU's tuition is too high are far removed from
reality. Having graduated from both BYU and Harvard, I will tell you that BYU is
the deal of a lifetime. Best education for the dollar bar none.
I sent my daughter to BYU for less money than I paid for may son here in
Colorado for in state tuition. I think it is a bargain.
I paid about $750 for a semester at BYU in 1984!What gives?Milk has gone up 75% since then.Gas has gone up 120 % since then.pay has gone from $5.00 hr to $9.00 hour for many student type jobs.
How does tuition go up to over $2000?? Oh, yeah, pay for all the
Tuition has increased every year since I started attending school. It was nice
back when it was $1920. In the end it isn't that much more and it is still a
lot cheaper than other schools.
I agree BYU is the deal of deals in higher ed. But has anyone checked out the
inflation rate of tuition over past 20 years and compared to the curent hot
button - healthcare? I'll bet tuition increases exceed healthcare cost
increases, especially if you exclude all the new procedures not available 20 yrs
ago.In general, higher ed has little accountability and spends money
faster than almost anyone else.
Every student that attends BYU gets the equivalent of a scholarship because the
tuition is so cheap. The Brethren want to make the tuition affordable and have
done a great job in doing that. Attending BYU is a privilege, so those that
attend have to earn it. I think it's a great system. The great education
available at BYU is not rationed so much by abiltiy to pay as by talent, ability
and hard work.
Just don't start a calendar business!!!
Go to Salt Lake community college, or the University of Utah. It's cheaper. And you can date while you do it!
To BYU=Biased:Wow. Your logic is amazing... you must have attended a
prestigious school yourself.
To BYU=Biased, give me a break.I went to the University of Kansas as an
out-of-state student, and paid 4 times what in-state students paid. I guess, by
your logic KU=Biased to all non-Kansas people.BYU is a great deal, and a
Why would red box make their machines? WHY?
Think about your comment about the grounds. Nearly all that labor is provided
by students who work, and are paid. They then spend that money for school,
housing, and food. Better than no financial aid, and requires effort rather
than nothing like grant, or scholarship, which BYU is very generous with also.
The average private school for one year of tuition is around $25,000!! BYU is a
top 100 school ( us news) and obviously a private school but is extremely cheap!
The LDS church pays for the majority of the students tuition EVEN NON LDS
STUDENTS! Naturally they pay even more for LDS students because it's a church
owned school. LDS or non LDS it's still one of the best values in America!
BYU is biased against non members, just look at the tuition, it's designed in my
opinion to lure members of the church only to the Y. They don't want non
members, they want only members whose parents pay for their whole education.
I think I prefer "Wait ago."Kind of like a "moo point" (It's like
what a cow says, it just doesn't matter, it's moo.)Would have liked
to see some price comparisons to other institutions. What do University of Utah
students pay? How about other private institutions - Notre Dame, Temple. I
don't know why BYU is not rated among the best values in education every year.
It is almost as if US News and World Report does not believe tuition is $2,500,
not $25,000.Great school, great value (as long as you can put up
with those 5% of BYU students that everyone hates.)
You Figure It Out...You're kidding right? This is the least
expensive private tuition (and much less than MANY state schools) in the nation!
Let alone the fact that it is one of the best schools around (e.g., regular
ranked in the top 10 for business programs).If state schools like
UCLA are $20k per semester just to keep the lights on, as a tithe payer, I sort
of wish they would raise it even more (and yes, I have two kids there myself...)
Just open your eyes and look around a little at tuition rates across the
country. My friend is getting his MBA at Notre Dame and he pays $40k a year
compared to BYU's $9k/year. I have other friends paying similar amounts just for
their undergrads. BYU is extremely affordable!
$1200 tuition per semester back in the 90's and a six figure income today
(that's before the decimal UU grads). Great investment--and I willingly pay my
tithes and taxes.But please BYU, if you cut the grounds staff by
about half and mow the lawn only when it needs to be mowed, I would estimate the
savings to be in the millions annually.
Today they had a related article on the most expensive Universities in the US.
All had 3-4% increases in their tuition this year. Pretty standard.
Before your next post, you may want to spend a little money on an economics
class or two.
Actual it is unfair that members pay that amount. There are enough members that
want to go there and since it is a private instituion it should be much more
expensive than it is. Guess what anonymous the mormon students at other schools
pay that 10% as well. As far as comparable that depends on the program. BYU
does charge more for its better programs but believe it or not many of its
programs are inferior to the same program at other schools that BYU folks think
My undergrad was at BYU. For my graduate program at Notre Dame, the tuition is
currently $38,860 per year. BYU students have it awfully good.
WhY is this news? BYU has raised their tuition rates every year since 2003.
They didn't from 2001 to 2002 due to the problems following 9-11. In 2002 I was
paying about $1,500/semester and you could see what the rates are now. They
also increase fees and rental prices every year.
College is not for everyone
The phrase is "Way to go", not "Wait ago".
950 dollars in 1991....My last semester was 1380... After professional school
which was around 20,000 a semester, I realized what a deal BYU was. The
undergrad was 4000 per semester for instate tuition where I went to professional
school! 3% increase is very modest. My professional school tuition
increased 11% each of my last 3 years (2000-2003)! OUCH. Education is an
investment. Its return is much higher than what is invested.
Gee what a surprise that they are rising it AGAIN!! when will it end? Pretty
soon they will raise it so that kids can not afford to go to College, Wait ago
Um, I think you just started the argument.
BYU tuition could triple, and it would still be a steal compared to other
Wow, tuition's so cheap at the Y. At UCLA I'm paying 40,000 a year . . . as an
I will go out on a limb and venture a guess that the tuition rates will continue
to increase with each passing year. The "great Recession" is going to end up
doing a great deal of damage to family budgets everywhere, rising tuition rates
and rising prices on everything are already taking a terrible toll on people all
across this country. I don't personally see any positive outcome to all the
price increases, once the recession is over sadly the "new higher prices" in
place will not be lowered and people will simply end up having to pay much
higher prices for education or food the rent etc. That is the downside of a
recession ending that many people don't stop to consider, prices rise during a
recession to new levels and then don't go back down to the old levels. The
recession is going to one day end yet the damage that this will have done to
this country will scar this country for many, many years to come. The recovery
is going to be very slow and millions will have lost jobs and homes and end up
Now before this message board is flooded with anti-mormon comments about how it
is unfair that non-mormons pay twice as much tuition to attend... Don't forget
that the Mormons who attend BYU pay 10% of their income in tithing for their
entire lives!!!I'm glad I've ended this argument before it started!!