Utah's lessons for California

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  • to: @hospitable California
    July 12, 2009 8:56 a.m.

    You stated: This whole blog has turned into one big Mormon/Utah bashing session. three words: Get a life!

    You need to have your eyes checked. Plenty of CA bashing too, and the article pretty much set it up--suggesting CA, with the 7th largest economy in the WORLD--can solve it by following UT. LOL

  • @hospitable california
    July 11, 2009 9:59 p.m.

    Every time I travel outside of Utah I get asked, "Are you a Mormon." So, I guess the rest of the world has the same problem you describe (if true) but in reverse.
    This whole blog has turned into one big Mormon/Utah bashing session. three words: Get a life!

  • re: asking again ...
    July 11, 2009 7:40 a.m.

    Of course there are parts of California that are exceptional. The Golden State is huge. Why do you think even neocon Rush Limbaugh once said he'd like to live there?
    Then there are overcrowded, smog-filled, over-developed areas with race problems, gangs, drugs and all the other trappings that go along with too many people crammed into a small area - kind of like Salt Lake City.

  • Stewart
    July 10, 2009 9:29 p.m.

    Not to worry, before the hammer falls on CA the federal government will bail them out for a period of time, by co-signing their loans. How many of you would co-sign for your spending addicted family member on their mortgage? The Obama Administration will be the enabler for not only CA but FL, NY and others. The rest of us will be forced to pay for it.

  • RE: unlimited sources
    July 10, 2009 9:29 p.m.

    Utahns PAY for all that stuff,

    how Californians using that money?

    What areddoing with all that money?

  • I'm asking again...
    July 10, 2009 8:28 p.m.

    I'll ask again... WHY would anyone be jealous of those living in California?

    Do you think most people want to live in a bankrupt state? That can't meet it's financial obligations?

    Do you think most people want to live in Watts? East LA? Or the slums of Oakland?

    I agree there are parts of California that are exceptional. But there are those other parts you conveniently ignore in your "Everything in California is better than Utah" dogma.

  • Anonymous
    July 10, 2009 6:04 p.m.

    This poor chump has probably never left Utah and thinks California is like Salt Lake, "smog-filled, traffic jams and a tremendously bad attitude.
    There are actually 7 different Californias and only one Utah.
    I am so glad I left that terrible place.

  • Re: two types
    July 10, 2009 5:31 p.m.

    Wish to be a Californian?

    That's a fate worse than death. What a miserable blob of teeming humanity; all stuck down there in their smog-filled traffic jams, on a shaky earth-quake fault ready to blow any year, beset by wild-fires that the environmental elite have caused by refusing any proper forest management, bereft of enough drinking water thanks to environmental elites whose policies have so choked up the forest watershed that water shortages are occurring regularly, and now bankrupt thanks to liberal democrats in the legislature who don't know how to balance a budget.

    No, I have absolutely no wish to be a Californian.

    Signed: Content Utah citizen

  • two types
    July 10, 2009 3:57 p.m.

    There are only two types of people
    Californians and ...
    those that wish they were.


  • matt
    July 10, 2009 3:15 p.m.

    Editorial very well done.

    I've worked in politics in Sacramento and Salt Lake and this is all true.

  • @When a culture lives a lie | 2:
    July 10, 2009 3:02 p.m.

    I'm just curious. How much of your power do you get from Glen Canyon Dam?

  • @The Facts | 10:33 a.m.
    July 10, 2009 2:49 p.m.

    When this government will kill a Father for refusing to send his kids to public school, while mandating that taxpayers pay for educating the children of illegals, and then deny higher education to the majority of it's citizens because they fail to measure up economically and academically to the top tier, then we truly are governed by idiots.

    When they become destructive to these ends it is time for us to clean house in the Supreme court as well.

  • Anonymous
    July 10, 2009 2:46 p.m.

    In spite of too many GOP governors, California has it all.
    But Southern California (like Salt Lake Valley) has far too many people.
    Some Californians send the incoming immigrants to The Family Values state of Utah to look for work and raise their large families fitting in perfectly.

  • Hospitable California
    July 10, 2009 2:41 p.m.

    Aside from beautiful lands and bounteous agriculture, California has more tolerance, friendliness and hospitality than Utah.

    In California I never got asked, as I often did in Utah, what religion I was, only to be snubbed when I gave the “wrong” answer.

  • @lute | 10:27 a.m
    July 10, 2009 2:37 p.m.

    Oh really? How about you tell us Obama doubters how taking from taxpayers and giving to banks, investment firms, and large INTERNATIONAL CORPORATIONS who have NO allegiance to this Nation or its People is a good thing.

    If you cannot do that, then you need to shut up. Stop copping out and tell us in plain english how plundering the masses of trillions of $ and giving it to the elitists with interest added is good for the United States of America?

    And while your at it, would you kindly produce Obama's original long form birth certificate that will once and for all prove his natural born status qualifying him for the office of the Presidency. If not, tell us by what authority he acts at all for and in behalf of the People of the United States.

  • Loser Obamites
    July 10, 2009 2:33 p.m.

    as goes California so goes the rest of the economy....except red states like Utah!

    Looks like the Democrats are finally being exposed as the poorest stewards to ever govern!

    California Dems and Obummers are about to get their heads handed to them.......

    Last night I witnessed a falling star....it reminded me of Obama's falling approval rating.

    Good bye Dem's!! Hello GOP!

  • Curtis
    July 10, 2009 2:15 p.m.

    A bad day in California is far better than a good day in Utah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • re: @unlimited sources
    July 10, 2009 2:13 p.m.

    California is the nation’s leading agricultural and dairy producer, producing 21% of the nation’s milk supply, 23% of it’s cheese, and 92% of all grapes grown in the U.S. Cotton, foliage and flowers are also in the top 10 agricultural commodities produced in California. California produces half of all domestically-grown fruits, nuts, and vegetables.

    In all, over 400 different commodities are grown here. Some products, such as almonds, walnuts, artichokes, persimmons, and pomegranates, are solely produced in California.

    The Colorado River supplies water to Southern CA--not the San Joaquin Valley--one of the major agricultural belts in CA. Utah also gets water from the Colorado River.

  • what's to offer?
    July 10, 2009 2:10 p.m.

    So what is it that Utah can offer California?
    And any other state for that matter?

    I know, I know "Family Values" (as if it has the market cornered on values)

    The phoney sanctimony knows no bounds.


  • re: No thanks @1:56
    July 10, 2009 2:06 p.m.

    They (the Mormons) ask for it - the days are forever gone when a Mormon can say any ridiculous thing they want to say without it being scrutinized an/or challenged.

    Live with it.

    It's a new day.

    Thank God!

  • When a culture lives a lie
    July 10, 2009 2:00 p.m.

    Now I've heard it all.
    Welcome to Utah - home of The Big Waters!
    90% of the water for Los Angeles comes from The High Sierra.
    This fool's ridiculous comment should be in the section of this format that tells Utahns they should travel more.

    I swear, Utahns think all they have to do is say something and people are supposed to believe it.


  • To 1:26
    July 10, 2009 1:57 p.m.

    A portion of Colorado River, shared among five states, goes to Southern California, not to the vast acreages of agriculture north of there.

    The Colorado River is in California, too.

    You still need the crops grown in California, because Utah is building over what little farmland it has, with crops of babies and houses.

  • No thanks
    July 10, 2009 1:56 p.m.

    What I miss about Utah:
    my extended family

    What I don't miss about Utah:
    people such as @jealous mormons 1:03pm

  • @unlimited sources
    July 10, 2009 1:26 p.m.

    "The next time Utahns eat: artichokes, broccoli, cauliflower, spinach, stawberries, peppers, squash, carrots, asparagus, celery, tomatoes, mushrooms, Brussel sprouts, garlic, onions, pop the cork on the favorite Chardonnay to enjoy with their meal, turn on their computer, watch a movie, listen to a CD, plan their vacation to Disneyland, SeaWorld, Hollywood, ride a cable-car half-way to the sky, ... the list is truly endless - think of The Golden State that offers them these pleasures."

    And where does California get the water that is used to irrigate the crops and nourish the people who supply the items you mention above? Mostly from the Colorado River - much of that water comes from Utah.

  • Anonymous
    July 10, 2009 1:24 p.m.

    Mormons like to circle the wagons and as in a incestual family system, are told they should never venture outside Zion where "There be dragons."

  • @to Public Employees Run Amok
    July 10, 2009 1:05 p.m.

    ...but at a much lower percentage of their pay and below a certain age is a penalty as well.

  • @ "jealous mormons | 7:33 a.m."
    July 10, 2009 1:03 p.m.

    jealous mormons | 7:33 a.m.

    How do you figure that Utahns (Not only Mormons) are jealous of California?

    Do you think fiscally conservative Mormons WANT to be bankrupt State like California?

    Who in their right mind would be jealous of California and the situation they're in?

    Utah has been recognised nationally as "One of the best fiscally managed States in the United States". So WHAT do we have to be jealous of in California? Your debt? Your social handouts and entitlement programs you can't afford to fund?

    Exactly what are we "Mormons" supposed to be jealous of in California?

    2 of my brothers moved to California to get their careers started (with national firms) but with the intent to return to Utah BEFORE starting a family and having to put their kids in your FAILED education system.

    They are both back now and happier than ever. They don't miss California at all. Why do you think THEY should be jealous of what they left behind in California? The gangs? The murders? Lack of safety for children? The lack of quality schools?

    Please explain exactly WHAT Mormons should be jealous of.

  • Tug of War
    July 10, 2009 11:15 a.m.

    The main culprit is the recession, which caused a 34 percent plunge in personal income tax revenue during the first five months of the year.

    Democrats, the majority party in both houses, want to solve the deficit by cutting $11 billion in spending, raising the vehicle license fee by $15 to keep state parks open and increasing taxes on tobacco products and companies that drill for oil.

    Schwarzenegger (compassionate Conservative) has proposed more aggressive cuts of $16 billion, including dropping health care for 930,000 low-income children and eliminating the state's main welfare program. He also would borrow $2 billion from local governments, take $6 billion from other government accounts, accelerate personal and corporate income tax collections, and cut state employee pay by another 5 percent.

  • to Public Employees Run Amok
    July 10, 2009 11:07 a.m.

    most utah state employees can retire after 20.

  • OH NO
    July 10, 2009 10:55 a.m.

    Does this mean we have to keep BOB and ORIN FOREVER?

  • Anonymous
    July 10, 2009 10:42 a.m.

    What they don't tell you is that Utah has the most millionaires per capita than any other state in the country, and have convinced the hard-working (albeit naive) bees to accept their lot in life.
    "...subject to kings, presidents, magistrates ..."

    Those running the show in Utah know it's good to be the bee-keeper in the Beehive State and have pulled the con of the century.

  • unlimited sources
    July 10, 2009 10:38 a.m.

    The next time Utahns eat: artichokes, broccoli, cauliflower, spinach, stawberries, peppers, squash, carrots, asparagus, celery, tomatoes, mushrooms, Brussel sprouts, garlic, onions, pop the cork on the favorite Chardonnay to enjoy with their meal, turn on their computer, watch a movie, listen to a CD, plan their vacation to Disneyland, SeaWorld, Hollywood, ride a cable-car half-way to the sky, ... the list is truly endless - think of The Golden State that offers them these pleasures.
    Now ... tell me what Utah has to offer in the way of lessons.

  • The Facts
    July 10, 2009 10:33 a.m.

    Education (K-12) is generally a state's largest budget item. The Supreme Court ruled in 1982 Plyler v Doe that states cannot deny education to children who are illegal immigrants.

  • lute
    July 10, 2009 10:27 a.m.

    Hey Utah. You may hate Obama, but he is not the cause, and until you put up any new ideas, not just the ones from the past Administration that led us here, then shut up. The stimulus is an 18 month or more program. Also, we cannot control what goes on in the rest of the world. And attacks on socialism, whatever you think that may be, is an ideological cop-out.

  • More initiatives needed!
    July 10, 2009 10:23 a.m.

    I usually can at least understand if not concur with DN editorials. However, this time they did get it backwards. The PEOPLE delegate some of thier power to government, but the source of power is ALWAYS reserved to the people. That fact is written into about 27 State constitutions, and implied in the rest. Read our Utah constitution, its there.

    If the people pass an unconstitutional law, the courts may overturn it just as they can any other law. This assures that the tyranny of the majority doesn't trample the rights of the minority.

    We should set up a citizen legislature that will pass the important laws the the legilature is too spineless to pass, and leave the mundane lawmaking to the elected serfs.

  • Gus
    July 10, 2009 10:22 a.m.

    I just moved from CA back to UT. The cause of the $25 billion shortfall? Answer: illegals and unions.

    Illegals cost the state nearly $13 billion annually and are not paying state taxes.
    As stated above and due to parasitic unions, California state employees can retire and then collect 90% of their top salary for the rest of their lives. Those union contracts come at the expense of hard working Californians and they shouldn't put up with it.

  • John
    July 10, 2009 10:16 a.m.

    In Kalifornia they need to purge the welfare rolls, cut off free health care for those people and the illegals, ban employee unions, cut off the rediculous state pension benefits. Too bad if some poor people suffer. They can get jobs in the Big Valley picking produce.

  • The Facts
    July 10, 2009 10:14 a.m.

    As a percentage of the state population, New Mexico has the highest percentage of Hispanics (legal and illegal) at 44%. CA is 36.2%, Texas 35.9%, and Arizona 29.9%. (Pew Hispanic Center)

    Native born--U.S. citizens of Hispanic descent have similar poverty rates as foreign born Hispanics. (20%) Poverty rate among Blacks are 23.4%. White and Asian poverty rates are 8.5% and 9.5% respectively. (Pew Hispanic Center)

  • Public Employees Run Amok
    July 10, 2009 9:39 a.m.

    There is at least one other factor: Public employees run amok.

    California state employees can retire after 30 years of service with a guarantee to be paid 90% of their salary at the time of their retirement - as well as guaranteed cost of living increases for as long as they live.

    That means a lot of people retiring in their 50's who will be paid essentially a full salary for the rest of their lives (could easily be 40 years - or longer than the time they worked). And that's all on the back of the taxpayers.

  • This is the place - for sprawl
    July 10, 2009 9:29 a.m.

    California is the most populace state with most of its people living in the southern part.
    Utah prides itself on being one of the fastest growing states in America and offers incentives for people to move here.
    One look at the sprawl in Salt Lake Valley and you'd swear you were looking at southern California.

  • Huh?
    July 10, 2009 8:51 a.m.

    "But while they may have done so to prevent any usurpation of their own authority, it is clearly better to set tough requirements than to open the ballot up to the whims of various factions that exist among the public."

    To the whims of various factions? "They (the government) receive their power from the consent of the governed. We the People are the legitimate authority. If anything, it is legislators who usurp power from both the People and the Constitution to appease political factions.

    That is a condescending statement implying that it is a good thing to make citizen initiatives more difficult to get on the ballot. Thomas Jefferson wisely stated, If the people error the remedy is not to take the power from them but to educate them as to their error and they will correct it. He believed that the safest depository of freedom was in the hands of the People themselves.

    And not surprisingly, the DN's conveniently forgot to mention the impact of the illegals in California. According to a friend who lives there part time and runs an international business, illegals in California are clearly the most significant contributing factor to their situation.

  • Illegals
    July 10, 2009 8:32 a.m.

    Having grown up in California, but living in Utah now, the biggest problems there are caused by the illegals. The state would be alot better off if they were not funding the education,healthcare and crime of millions of illegals and their children. Yes, some of their kids are American citizens by birth, but that law needs to be changed too, so that atleast one parent needs to be a U.S citizen for the child to be considered a citizen. It would be nice it we had all the money in the world to help everyone, and California has tried, but as we are seeing in California now, there are limits before the system self-destructs. Economic law always wins over social engineering.

  • DN Misses
    July 10, 2009 7:39 a.m.

    DN states CA property taxes are in the middle compared to other states. But as a percentage of property value CA is near the bottom. When we bought our "fixer" 1300 sq. ft. house in 1988 we were paying more in property taxes than the Pres. of the company my husband worked for--who had a mansion in Beverly Hills. We can thank Utah for exporting Howard Jarvis who is responsible for Prop 13.
    I do agree with the initiative criticisms. It has gotten out-of-hand and is now big business with outside groups providing funding to get initiatives placed on our ballots.
    The 2/3 majority required to pass a budget is ridiculous especially when CA only requires a simple majority to amend the State Constitution.
    So, services are being cut for low-income and children's health programs. Most districts have been forced to lay-off teachers and prisons are requiring their staff(guards) to take at least one day per month of unpaid leave. Guess that is what the Republicans want.

  • jealous mormons
    July 10, 2009 7:33 a.m.

    I've never seen such jealousy.
    And always from the bunch who stayed behind with Young instead of pushing onward to the Golden State
    back in 1847.

    But I don't blame them. California has it all and everyone knows it.

  • There You Go Again
    July 10, 2009 6:37 a.m.

    A very realistic, fair assessment D-News. Well done.

  • John C
    July 10, 2009 6:37 a.m.

    California is the poster child of how too many social programs and unions can bring and economic engine to it's knees.
    Government should stick to core job requirements, not social engineering.
    The problem is the federal government will want the taxpayers to bailout another failed institution.
    As California goes, so goes our nation.
    It's time for tough love from the taxpayers, to coin a phrase "Just Say No!"

  • Lessons to learn
    July 10, 2009 4:39 a.m.

    All one has to do is look at the State of Wyoming. The politicians in that State know how to squeeze blood out of a turnip, something the far left have never been able to do for years in California, and now look what kind of mess they're in.