Salary freezes create difficult financial choice for educators
Teaching and coaching has brought me a ton of great memories. I know I have
been fortunate to touch many lives and have my life and family uplifted by the
students, parents and fellow colleagues I've been around. I'm a 20 year veteran
of this profession and I would say the first two were a struggle, the next 8 or
so were great and the last 10 have been hard and getting harder year by year.
It isn't the students but things like NCLB, administrators, and somewhat the
parents of recent. Along with that, my pay has lessened over the past few years
and opportunities to make money additionally in education have dried up. Slowly
and slowly, my ability to pay my bills, save money for my own children's
education etc. has become ever more difficult--my standard of living has
decreased. I would love to tell you to go into teaching as it has
been rewarding in many ways for me. However, with the current state of
education (at least in Utah) as it is, and the likelihood that these issues will
get worse, do something else--hopefully something that still benefits humanity.
This article helps clarify the some problems in education.Hats off to Mr.
Merrill and the others who dared tell the truth about the result of poor
management decisions in education. I reread the article and it talks more about
shared sacrifice than low pay. The districts that cut into teachers are like
companies that save money by cutting sales staff and manufacturing workers, but
protect management. The short term gain is never permanent, the best leave for
better positions, better companies, and the less competent remain. In private
industry, profits slump and bankruptcies follow. Look at GM: does anyone
believe that demoralizing workers and dealerships will result in top line
products? Education is different in that the public is stuck with the poor
decisions of the administrators. And bad administrators breed bad morale, bad
morale leads to poor education for our kids. I think the advice to Mr. Merrill
to jump to a new district is excellent. Jordan is a sinking ship, destined for
GM status, until the public demands new leadership. As to the
HATERS, put their kids and taxes into a special district, and keep them away
from my kids' teachers.
I'm a high school teacher. I sat in a conference last winter where State office
of Education officials went on and on about how important we (skills and career
teachers) are and how we contribute to our students' ability to earn a solid
wage. They presented an array of statistics showing the average salary for the
occupations we are preparing the students for. They were much higher than our
own (what are they telliong us?). They also talked about the growing demand for
skilled workers.Why does anyone expect to have high quality
education in the public school system when the teachers are only making half of
what their students will be making? You either have to be really dedicated or
really stupid to be a teacher. As a society, we need to decide what kind of
teachers we want and then be honest about it.
Yes I will say that teachers don't get paid a lot of money. Those of you who
work 12 months a year, 50 hours a week have your job because SOMEONE TAUGHT YOU
how to do your job. So thank a teacher for your lovely salary.Whether it is getting an outside job or working to make their curriculum
better, most teachers still work during the summer. I am so sick of
people dogging on teachers. Then again, those people who dog on teachers don't
care about making their kids education better. They say "We care about
education, We care about education." Then they do nothing to make it better.
Stop being hypocrites!
To give one more thought to think about. His MBA is a masters degree just like
an administrators masters degree. A new administrator makes approximatly 25,000
more then a new teacher with a masters degree. Teachers are a key part to a
school and why is an administrator with a masters degree making so much more
then a teacher with a masters degree? If anyone can answer that let me know.
Teachers work 75% of the year, therefore their salaries are 75% of the average
annual salary for non teachers. It is VERY common for those in the Business
world to work overtime each week. a 50-60 hour week is extremely common.
Teachers also work 50 hour weeks but only do so for 9 months of the year. I
work 50 hour weeks for 12 months a year. Just do the math and its clear why
teachers make 75% of my salary. The pay is fair. The numbers prove it.
I am glad to see a non-sports story near the top of comments. I am glad people
care almost as much about education as sports.
Administrators are overburdening our education systems without adding any
educational value. They are bureaucrats and are like leeches, sucking the
life-giving blood out of the school systems. In my day, Administrators also
taught. That is the way it should be today. Each administrator should teach at
least one class.
I left Jordan District after just two years there. It was the best move I ever
made for my career and my family. I wouldn't hesitate one second to find a
better district to work for. Once you reach five years, you're pretty much
stuck there for life because other districts won't give you more than five years
of experience on the pay scale. Get out while you can! Probably every district
in the state is a better option than Jordan right now.
RE:Why Do I Stay? | 1:20 p.m. July 8, 2009"I know I will go to
heaven because I have spent my time in hell". Thanks for the truth
and the laugh...AWESOME. I hope you retire and live a long and happy
life.Many of us are in the same boat!!Made my
I have taught 7th grade math for almost enough years to retire. Every year the
legislature slams our professionalism. Funds education with the largest class
sizes and the lowest funding per student in the nation. I know I will go to
heaven because I have spent my time in hell.I STAY because I can
reach,help,support,encourage, or make a change in a student's life. Hopefully,
more than one.I am a proud member of NEA UEA and GEA. These
associations negotiate for my benefits, provide continuing education, protect me
from bad administrations, false student complaints, and out-of-control
parents.Am I paid what I am worth? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! And next June, I
will decide if I care enough to teach another year. At the very least, I will
have early retirement benefits that will justify the low pay, the STRESS, the
heartache, and memories of the students that I was able to reach.
It's a sad story, but teachers are not exempt from the economic downturn the
rest of us are experiencing.My neighbors are both teachers and great
people. But I have noticed they get summers off, are home every morning when
I'm leaving for work and every evening when I return. One of them got gastric
by-pass surgery and the other got laser eye surgery, courtesy of their
taxpayer-funded insurance policy (mine would not cover either, by the by).They get holidays off that we in the business world didn't even know
existed. They have combined fewer years of post-high school education than I
have and yet they complain that I make almost as much as the two of them
together.Hmmm, let me see. I work more hours, have more education
and have taken more risk. Yep, sounds fair to me that I should make more money.
I must say first that I LOVE TEACHING! I find it an amazingly fulfilling and
uplifting experience every time I enter the classroom. I am saddened that this
is the argument we are having - but I am even more sickened by the wanton
disregard for education itself. I do not believe that throwing more money will
improve fix this problem. I would love to be paid more, but I am okay - my
benefits are good (this is not to say that all districts are equal in that
category)! If we want to get rid of poor teachers, it is not through more money
that we do it! It is through parental involvement! Parents have a right to know
what is going on inside their child's classroom - so go find out! I am a high
school teacher and I feel that if parents would come in and make surprise visits
to a teachers classroom during school hours - poor teachers would quickly become
good teachers. When there is a chance someone would be "popping" in to check on
you and see what you are doing - everyone would be more prepared. Perhaps then
society would be willing to pay higher salaries.
I get a kick out of the IGNORANCE of the people that think educators get a 3
month break and that it is an "easy" profession. I doubt most of them could
deal with an irrate parent, deal with a student with a weapon, a student with
ADHD or a student whose parents are abusive. How would they deal with students
calling them mean and unfair when they receive their grades? After school is
out, we grade papers and projects; attend various meetings; sit on budget and
planning committees; write e-mails and contact parents whose children are
failing. Far from being a glorified babysitter.Many of my fellow
faculty members teach summer school, take on part-time jobs at fast food places,
do community coaching, and other jobs to make ends meet. I don't see many
Lexus' and BMW's in the faculty lot. However, I would suggest that 6 layers of
Administration could be cut to augment supplies and other resources.To those who had bitter experiences in HS, the DRAMA is over, Grow Up. I
suggest you go rent Mr. Holland's Opus, and see what we do to make ends meet.
I wanted to be a teacher. I worked nights and weekends to get my degree while
on active duty in the military. I would gladly work for $35K per year.
BUT....BUT I can't be a teacher because I didn't take the "proper" education
courses. I got a 90th percentile on the NTE (National Teacher's Exam). I think
they changed the test due to people like me who got good scores based on life
experiences. As long as the "administrators" control the purse strings and the
business of education there will be problems like this. I call it the education
mafia. All children left behind. Dumbing down. Take your pick of terms, but
the answer is still the education industry has created and grown its own
problems. Good luck young teacher. BTW all of my elementary and most of my
high school teachers were little old ladies who were married to farmers. Some
didn't even have degrees and the eighth grade teacher was an additional duty
Let me get this straight!! Because I have taught for over twenty years earned a
Masters Degree plus forty. Coached every sport under the sun, worked community
education,weekends and summers (every year of teaching) I am lucky to have a
job.That does not compute..the negative posts here make teaching
sound so easy yet, those making the negative posts more than likely do not have
any formal education.Yes, I am lucky...lucky that I worked hard,
stuck with it wanted to provide for my family and now I am secure.Come one, come all!!! Pay your dues earn a degree or two, put twenty plus
years in (all the while working two jobs) and feel the security.Any takers?? Just as I thought...WIMPS!!!Go back to
Dude thought teaching and coaching would be cool. Now the reality of low pay,
politics and disrespect has hit him.Get out while you can!To the person saying we should get a lottery and spelled it with one 't' come
on people!!Honestly, the more I read the comments posted here the
more I realize the value of teachers and higher learning.Teachers
should have the OPTION of retiring at 25 years. If they choose to stay on beyond
that then so be it but the retirement system stops at 25 years. Retire and go do
something else. Stephenson continues to set teachers up for failure. His pet
projects keep getting him re-elected.Additionally, there are so many
ineffective administrators and positions. Administrators should be put back in
the classroom at some point. They simply loose touch with what teachers deal
with on a daily basis. Let alone draw huge salaries. A good old boys
network!!!I believe as time goes on you will see fewer and fewer
people coming out of college and staying in teaching. As it stands now the
typical teacher lasts 3-5 years.Like dude here; it won't take
Education is NOT failing because of "lack of funding",it is failing
because of societal Problems (political correctness, no real morals-just
different opinions) and also a large dose of mismanagement!
The sad thing in this story is that Mr. Merrell looked at Jordan District's
salary schedule and decided it would be worth his time, effort, and money to
purse his Masters Degree. Based on the salary schedule, he knew that doing so
would help him make more money. He wasn't asking for a handout, but was willing
to do extra work to get a higher pay. Then after it was completed they said,
"Oh, never mind...no lane changes this year." That's ridiculous.There are plenty of districts in the state that have found a way to deal
with budget cuts without taking away steps and lane changes that teachers plan
and work for.
I love how everyone working in public education has started commenting on the
story and accusing everyone else of hating teachers.* The one
problem is that we, the non-teachers, don't hate teachers. In fact, we think
very highly of many of them. They've changed our lives for the better.WHAT WE DO HATE ARE WHINERS who act as if they never knew what they were
signing up for and who can't appreciate having a $35,000 salary plus $15,000 in
benefits including retirement and tons of holidays at a time when millions of
Americans would be happy just to have a job!!!! You should be counting your
blessings instead of wallowing in self-pity. But of course, it's all for the
children, right???*This tactic is straight from
education politics 101. If someone ever questions the education establishment,
just accuse them of hating teachers and you'll silence any dissent. It's a very
effective tactic no matter how dirty.
Let me first say that I think there are too many administrators at the
district level in every district I've seen. Sometimes it seems like jobs are
created to help a friend out. But, when you cut a district in half you don't cut
the number of district administrators in half. If we were to have a district
that only had the necessary district admin positions, and then cut that district
in half, you still have one math specialist, one science specialist, etc. Many
positions have one person in them and a district split would actually create a
few jobs so that each district could fill those positions. That said, I
restate my position that there are too many district level jobs. It seems like
every person I know at my school district has a secretary or two, and a team
that all does the same thing. I would like some of these positions eliminated so
that some of that money can stay with the teachers -not to pay them more, but to
keep more teachers. I'm scheduled to have 35-40 kids in each of my classes next
year. My room fits 30 desks...
Hey Teachers | 10:19 a.m. July 6, 2009 You are correct
administrators make thousands and thousands more than the average teacher.What's you point??Did you even read the article?Do you know administrators are not taking a cut and if they are they can
afford it (check their wages, there in lies part of the problem), while teachers
continue to struggle.You really should learn the facts or read the
article before posting your illiterate comments.Another uneducated
HATER...typical!!Go back to school and become a teacher.All you uneducated haters that think it is so easy to get a degree...GO DO
IT!!Truth be told you can't.You dropouts need to get
some perspective or better yet get a life.BOO WHO!!Teachers just need to learn how to throw a good old fashion strike. What has
being nice ever gotten you?
RE: Prospective Teacher | 11:01 a.m. July 6, 2009 Listen follow your
dream!! There are a lot of great things about teaching. Just do your homework
and know what you are getting into.Go talk to teachers that are
willing to tell you the truth.There is a ton of politics and low pay
is just one small problem attached to being a teacher.Administration
is one of the big problems. There simply is no support and after many, many
years I have come to realize that the meetings and ideas put on the table twenty
five years ago were never implemented. Education in America is
failing because it is so underfunded. Teachers are frowned upon and most parents
are not willing to support them. Simply put school districts are happy just
maintaining the status quo.If you love to coach and work with kids
it is an awesome experience. But the politics may kill you in the end. It is a
lot of work and prepare yourself for a second job almost certainly even if your
spouse works. Good Luck!!I noticed someone on here put a Jordan
teacher makes 80K...just another uniformed hater.
I know it is difficult to take a cut in pay; been there, done that. But at
least you have a job. In the private sector of this economy, you'ed probably
be fired. So grid your teeth and hang in there. A thought, "Would your
teaching improve with a pay raise?" or "Will you lower your teaching because you
did not get a pay raise?"I taught for 30 years and saw a number of
teachers who did not improve their teaching skills -- 20 years on the job and
one year of experience vrs 20 years of experience.Everyone is
hurting. Should you be any different?
That's what we get for letting the goverment run differnt businesses.
This sickens me... Teaching was the best job I ever had - except for the pay. I
was laid off 3 weeks before school started, and after 4 enjoyable years, I was
forced to recareer. Sad thing is, I'd never go back. Lack of respect, lack of
financial incentive. In the end it wasn't worth it to me to try again the next
year. Best of luck to the teacher in the article....
So please explain why more building administrators were eliminated than district
administrators, when the district was cut in half. For the students? Really?
Population in the schools is way up, but building administrators have been cut.
Been waiting for awhile now for an explanation on this. WHen and where can this
explanation be expected? AMy Stewart is probably not writing another story, so
please let me know when I can expect this explanation!
I am the Mr. Merrell that is featured in this story and was torn when the
Deseret News approached me. I hope the implications won’t be too severe
but I feel I need to stand up for myself and other young teachers. I
want to make it perfectly clear that I love my job as a teacher. The students,
parents, community, and administration/staff at Bingham are incredible. The
fulfillment I get from seeing my students learn and progress would be impossible
to duplicate in another profession. I know I can make more money in the
“real world” but I gladly chose to teach because of my students.I feel an unfair burden is being placed on young teachers. With the
current budget I will lose nearly 15% of my salary while an administrator will
see no decrease.The question I am facing is not whether to leave the
teaching profession but whether to leave Bingham High School and Jordan School
District. I can’t imagine how it would feel to leave the school I love so
much. I hope the district will evaluate alternatives that will share the burden
of the budget across all employees.
I am amazed at the hate mongering towards teachers in so many of the comments I
have read. It is no surprise at the lack of respect shown to teachers though by
parents or admin, it is almost a given these days. As for babysitting, I don't
get paid enough to babysit so I teach. I have taught for 25 years and if I were
doing it for the pay then I would have left long ago...there are some of us who
just enjoy teaching. BTW I do get my summers off...that is why I have done 3
years at a teacher training college, 2 years correspondence, 1 year of
history/geography, 2 years of special ed and in Sept start another 2 years of a
PE course. 10 years of training has earned me the right to do enjoy my
summers...which I do work part time.
If you are a teacher and also belong to the union (UEA) you deserve minimum
wage. Please quit and benefit us all. The UEA is the single greatest impediment
to public education and the ascent of teachers. If you want to be treated like a
professional and earn professional wages, why do you belong to a blue collar
I work for the state and have job requiring a degree but don't make as much a
teacher. Wish I made as much as my brother who teaches and who gets the summer
You should be outraged that your property taxes are skyrocketing while district
administrators (almost all of them) retained their jobs in the split. No big
deal, except that they CUT administrative jobs in schools!! We will have
elementary schools with 1200 - 1500 students and no vice principals. We will
have high schools with 2700 students and only 3 VPs and maybe 4 counselors.
Don't expect any services. At least one high school has already cut some
programs because they don't have the personnel to oversee them. JSD patrons
should demand district leaders make some sacrifices BEFORE schools do! Students
are the ones to suffer. Does anyone really think students are better off because
93% of district administrators kept their jobs in the split? Personnel should be
kept in (or moved to) schools --- you know, where the work with kids actually
takes place. Parents and taxpayers should demand it or we'll remain
unreasonably top-heavy and our students will pay the price!
Still waiting to hear the reason for your unwillingness to share in the budget
crisis. When JSD lost HALF it's schools and students, it only eliminated 7% of
it's district administrators! HOW CAN THAT BE? If a school lost half it's
student population, it would also lose about 50% of it's teachers and the
remaining teachers would be forced to double up on responsibilities! That's the
real world. Why is nobody questioning this move by JSD admin? Few district
administrators are hurt by the decision not to fund steps and lanes. Teachers in
JSD are willing to sacrifice. WHY WON'T YOU? Why not take furlough days instead
of just eliminating PDD? YES -- we get it. The state legislature eliminated PDD,
not the JSD board. But you (and the board) have the power to make this more
equitable, like every other district. But it will have to affect you, too!! Your
unwillingness to share in the cuts speaks volumes about where your priorities
are. Teachers and community members expect fairness!!!
I am a new teacher in the davis school district, last year was my second year.
Here is my schedule.7:30-1 pm (my prep is my last period)1-2:00 correct papers, get lesson plans ready, etc2-3:00 work on
the baseball field, watch film for football, whatever sport I am in I need to
get ready for practice or a game.3-5 baseball and or football practice.Now if it is baseball, there are some times I do not get home until 6:30 or
7During football, I will be up all night watching film and getting ready
for the next game.So during those sports seasons I rarely see my family,
and next year we are playing JV games after Varsity games for baseball, which
means I won't be home until 10pm.Now I am not complaining about my
salary or anything with the pay. I knew that going in. I just love teaching
YOUR kids!!!! SO get off teachers and quit saying we whine to much.Guess what, I am going boating tomorrow, and fishing next week, then back to
football. Gotta love it!!!!!!!!!
I work as an educator in a neighboring state. We get paid more than Utah and
some of your best and brightest are moving our way. It has been my experience
in talking with these folks that UTAH values education as long as they don't
have to pay for it. The old something valuable for nothing. It is the same
reason so many scams are successful in your state. Don't you folks realize that
every dollar spent on salaries changes hands at least seven times in the
I am a 40+ year-old former stay-at-home mother of 5 who is finishing an
Elementary Education degree. I will be teaching my first year this coming
fall.I am really looking forward to it.All of these
negative comments and don't really mean a lot to me. I know what I want to do
and why. I know what the salary is. I've had all my kids in the public school
system and know that there are great teachers and not-so-great.My
husband is leaving the ruthless business world to teach high school and we're
both excited for the change.We're old enough to know that nothing is
perfect. There are troubles in every profession. There are also great people and
whiners found in every profession as well.Do what you want and enjoy
Those who think teachers are overpaid should look at how much administrators and
employees at the District level make. Society pay more to those jobs they value
more. We apparently value athletes and high profile personalities more than the
most important people in our child's lives outside of our own families.Teaching is an art that requires patience, organizational skills, persistence
and endurance. It's easy to judge if you have never done it.
To share the burden - this would only mean something in the Jordan district
where the school board president makes $24,000 and some members are making
$18,000; the Ogden district's board members make $3,750 per year.
It's not a viable reality. You'd soon have teachers doing unethical things to
boost their numbers. Sad, but true.
$80,000????? In Jordan District? You are misinformed.
Re JSD in Jordan: I work in finance for 52 weeks of the year. I get all the
federal and state holidays off and work five days a week I also get three weeks
paid vacation per year. I'm also making six figures. When I figured the number
of actual days worked it was about 224 days or 7.5 months of the year if you
worked every day in the month. That is only 1.5 more months than teachers for a
lot more pay, yet again I don't have to do much work at home either but can
usually leave my job at my job. My wife would kill me if I brought my work home
with me every night. With that said, most jobs have a five day work
week which is 260 days of the year or about 3.5 months off total. I think
teachers are definitely undervalued and work harder than most jobs. Only a small
percentage of the population could do what teachers do. Most people I know
can't stand being around their own kids for more than a few hours a day.
Teachers are around hundreds.
My first of teaching I made 15K and I was both an assistant and head coach.
Additionally, I worked in the evenings with community education for twenty
years.My point is this if you teach you will suffer your entire life
and no one cares.Now with three years left until retirement I find
myself having wished my life away waiting for that big raise that never came.You can do it but not just on a teachers salary expect to work more than
a day job. Unless of course you can get into administration (you best know
someone or forget about it!!)Teachers in Utah are set up to fail. It
isn't aall about the pay. It is many other things starting with respect or a
lack there of. Just read the comments posted here. HATERS.My best
friend is a doctor he makes ten times what I make. I am proud of him because I
understand the amount and intensity of his education. Those writing here ripping
on teachers don't get it because they more than likely do not understand what it
takes to get through college!!Soldier on dude..you have no choice.
You are being sold a bill of goods if you think Jordan's massive tax hike,
layoffs and salary freeze are the result of the district split. To the contrary,
JSD is in better shape as a result of the split. It has $12 million in
equalization money that no other district has, a $94 million fund balance, lower
costs because of its newer buildings, and hundreds of millions of dollars of
debt paid courtesy the other district. Fact is Jordan District is using the
split to do what it wants. Anything goes at this point.
Yes I work 9 1/2 month or 188 school days during a year. I made
$66,000 last year.I get to school 30 minutes before the bell and
leave 30 minutes to 60 minutes after the bell for an 8 to 8.5 hr day.I refuse to take work home to grade because I'm not paid for it.I
have won several teaching awards.I make a difference in my students'
lives.Plus I get to be home not longer after my kids get home and I
get to spend all summer fishing, camping, traveling, boating etc. with the
family.I could make more in other fields but I have a great life and
I will have a great retirement.Life is good.Sorry Hate
I am a teacher and would not work for the JSD. they just do not value their
teachers. I had a job with them last year and quit when I got a better teaching
job. Their top administrators should be taking a hit in the wallet not the
I teach in Jordan, and we are getting hammered because of the recession AND the
district split that we didn't want. Thanks to the Legislature for shoving that
one through. For those of you who complain that only the people in the "real
world" (outside of teaching) are the ones who work hard: I have a relative who
works for IHC, and she talks constantly about co-workers who spend their time on
the Internet, shop online, talk to family members on the phone constantly, and
take 2-hour lunches. As an elementary teacher, I teach all subjects, get 25
minutes for lunch only if the kids are outside, and do most of my computer
work/grading at home using my own equipment. I work at least 10-11 hours per day
during the school year, and several weeks extra during the summer at no pay. I
also subsidize my classroom to the tune of hundreds of dollars per year (that
has to end - I'm getting a pay cut of at least $3,000 this coming year). I am
grateful for a job, but like others have said the administrators should also
take some of the hit.
RE: TEACHER | 8:34 a.m. July 6, 2009 If you work so much how are you
finding the time to make so many comments.Not buying it!!!
186 days is six months?Sure, if you work every single Sunday, Saturday,
and holiday.Nice try there.
Define harmless | 9:57 a.m. July 6, 2009 Awesome comment
what about administrators | 3:22 p.m. July 6, 2009 Unless you are in
the good old boys network BIG TIME...you will never get a job.That
is the truth...I hope it helps!!
Jordan school teachers should get more money,but thanks to the people on the
east side, there will be all kinds of cuts to every district but theirs. Yea, I
know they got tired of paying for all the west siders new schools, but take a
look at the new facilities they have. It just proves that life is not fair. If
it were, we would have nothing to complain about!
Why teach in a state full of people who see no value in your work?
THere is just so much money to go around and the so called stimulus bill of Mr.
Obama is a Keynsian initiative and they do not only not work they make things
worse. I would think a pay cut or maybe just no raise better than no job. Sure
teachers do not get enough neither does anyone else.
I would resign and find another job but I like the 186 day-a-year contract.
That equates to only six months a year I have to work. If I could find another
job with all the benefits and six months of work I will resign immeadiatly.
Re ABS: Nice spin job. Teachers actually work quite hard during that 9 month
time period. I teach and work at least 60 hours per week. Unlike most jobs, we
do get laid off for 2 1/2 months of the year. (I start contract days in the
middle of August and teach through the last week of May or first week of June).
Because our paychecks are divided over 12 months, I am not eligible for
unemployment in the layoff season. I started teaching 16 years ago and my salary
was $19,000. It took me seven years to save enough money to buy a house and I
had to move 25 minutes away from my place of employment in order to afford one.
I currently make $64,000 on Utah's Right, but it doesn't tell you that I've
stuck with the job for 16 years, teach summer school, mentor other teachers,
teach an extra class period instead of having an unpaid prep, do outside
maintenance work for the school, and help administer a federal grant in which I
get paid. I'm not complaining about my job or salary, just the teacher-bashers.
Utah needs the lotery! Pay teachers more with the lotery
It is quite obvious you have never taught school before. I'm sure that any
teachers reading your post are laughing hysterically. First of all,
professional development days are optional. You don't attend, you don't get
paid. I'm sure you run into a teacher here and there, but the vast majority of
teachers need the pay and attend those days. Of course you may not find teachers
in their classroom before or after school. Did you bother to make an
appointment with the teacher or just show up expecting them to be there. They
might be running copies, at faculty meetings or district meetings, sick, on a
field trip, meeting with parents, or counselors, or other myriad reasons. You
people really need to get a life and start living in the real world. It is
funny how you tell teachers to get a so-called "real world" job when most of the
teachers have worked such jobs at one time or another, but on the flip side
people who make such naive critical comments about teachers and the profession
have never worked in the education profession. Oh, the hypocrisy.
So teachers aren't taxpayers either? That is a new one. If teachers don't pay
taxes, then who is the "we" taxpayers? By the way, how many kids do you have
and what is your income? I bet you don't even pay enough in taxes that educates
a half of a child. People that use the system the most usually pay the least
into it and whine about it. I say get rid of the child tax credit and start
making people pay the full cost of educating their children. Also, I bet any
teacher would love to have $2.00 per hour per child. With Utah's high classes
they would make close to $100K per year. I bet they would even throw in a few
educational activities for free--something that sticking your kids in front of
the telly won't do.
so what about school administrators (principals , etc..). I was considering
getting a Masters in Administration for the purpose of becoming a principal.
Does anyone have thoughts on this??? Interested.
Go to UtahsRight.com, punch in a teacher you know, check their salary...divide
that by 9, as they do not work 12 months, they get a three month break,
something the rest of us don't get with our careers. Is it really that bad? No,
not at all, they do better than most. Administrators are WAY over paid, I do
agree, they should take a cut as well, to compensate more, but teachers don't do
as poorly financially as they lead the public to think.
To Hatuletoh,First of all, check your grammar…”being paying
out” is not correct. Did you learn that from being plopped down in front
of a T.V.? Second, you are a cheap-skate! Two bucks an hour for a sitter? Are
they playing with your children or just sending text messages to their friends?
And since when is T.V. free? Do you have cable? Oops! Not free! Or,do you sponge
off those who DONATE to Public Television to educate your children? I have a
better idea, why don’t you get off the couch where you are watching
“quality T.V.” with your children and volunteer in the classroom?
Don’t like schools? How about the Boys and Girls Club, Big Brothers/Big
Sisters or any number of other organizations in need of assistance. Yes, I am a
teacher and a parent, so please don’t let your opinion rub off on your
children…our job is difficult enough.
I wish every teacher in Utah would quit. We are just cheap babysitters.
Parents do not respect teachers; therefore, students do not respect teachers.
We receive a salary 12 months of the year which makes our monthly paycheck
smaller. We are required to be to workshops throughout the summer, after
school, and on Saturdays. We have to teach children manners because parents
don't! We need to teach them to come to school clean because parents don't! We
need to teach them the importance of homework because parents don't. Many
parents in this day and age are only worried about one person "themselves".
As I said, I wish every teacher in Utah could quit----maybe then the public
could see that we are a vital part of society!!!!!!
Why should we taxpayers being paying out for teachers? I pay the babysitter two
bucks an hour, and I can plop the kids in front of the TeeVee for free.
Comparing jobs and salaries is always a slippery slope. Collecting garbage is
not like being an accountant is not like being a teacher. Teachers deal with
things that those with desk jobs will NEVER have to deal with - comparing the
two is unfair. Yes I get summers and holidays away from school but that doesn't
mean I'm not working. I read, take classes, plan lessons, etc all to benefit the
kids I teach.Also, where are all those great benefits you all keep
talking about? I pay $450 a month for my health insurance and about the only
thing it's good for is routine check ups. Jordan School District isn't even
paying for my daughter's well child immunizations. All we're saying
is that teachers shouldn't have to take all the cuts. Administrators in Jordan
School District are getting a cost of living raise. Without my husband's income,
my kids would qualify for food stamps and I'M the one getting the cut. How is
I taught in the school system for 27 years and was more grateful than anyone can
imagine to retire and get out of the mess!! Greed, selfishness and excessive
demands from the top to the survival of the fittest at the bottom. Rude,
disrespectful,lazy,students coming from the very kind of homes that encourage
such behavior. Teachers were once respected,honored, supported, and rewarded for
their efforts...but not anymore. Now they are treated with contempt, rudeness,
and constant complaints from parents and the public at large about everything
they do or not do. Darned if you do, darned if you don't. Anyone in their right
mind would never enter a profession that suffers from the kind of abuses
mentioned here and in comments on this topic. Think twice before becoming a
I made $66,000 last year. I am now enjoying a summer of travel and boating with
my kids. I get to work a job that actually makes the world a better place.
What I do actually matters.I love my job and will enjoy a long,
steady career.Sounds to good to be true? Nope. You too
can be a teacher. Look into it. It is a great career.Just ignore the Hate Mongers on message boards.
The school board did NOT create this problem, but they are trying to solve it,
even with a larger shortfall than other school districts, thanks to its recent
divorce. As a parent, I'm glad to hear the school board is not raising class
sizes. You'd think our teachers would be happy about that too.
Most teachers do work 8 hour days. I have never known a teacher that works
less. I'm sure they exist, but they're rare.Most teachers do get summers
off (and don't spend more than a few days of that summer preparing for class).
Try finding a decent summer job, though...a teacher friend of mine is working
fast food this summer. $6 or $7/hour...The summer off isn't as big of a benefit
as you would think, at least for teachers trying to support a family. That much
money doesn't go far.
Prospective teacher--smart choice. People think teacher's benefits are
cushy--my health insurance carried a deductible so huge that I never even
considered using it (and would've used it only for a catastrophic emergency).
Some teachers are more expendable...math and science teachers are not. I taught
science, and was always able to find work because of that.I'll be
practicing law in 2 years--I'm near the top of my class, and so will probably
get a good job after graduation. Average pay from my law school for the first
year out is around $90,000 (although with my class rank I'll probably make a bit
more). I was paid $33,000/year as a teacher. I'm spending this summer with a
law firm, and the attorneys I work with don't have near the stress most teachers
do.Consider going to graduate school--medical, dental, law, business, etc.
before you consider teaching. Especially if you'll have a family to support and
you're smart enough to make it through graduate school.
Maybe instead we should be wondering how the lawyer, doctor, NFL players, NBA
players, etc. got to where they are making hundreds of thousands into the
millions. Couldn't have done it without teachers. I feel our society has its
priorities backwards. By the way, I can also guarantee you that
most teachers don't get summer vacation. I know that most are in classes or
summer professional development. Or heaven forbid they work in their classrooms
in preparation for the coming school year. Teachers work 12 months a year (or
the hours equivalent to that). I am grateful for the work that I
have and the freedom to choose my career. I hope that teachers will realize the
real reason for teaching (KIDS) and I hope that the rest of society will realize
what teachers really go through and do for their children.
Sorry buddy your wrong most administrtors are past the step scale anyway, so
they would not get a step regardless. They can make up any pay decrease by
simply attending a few basketball or football games. In the Jordan district
Adminitrators are not sacrificing a dime.
No way do the "extra hours put in" come close to 12 months of actual work. Try
to find a teacher in school before or after the bell rings. That's a 6 hour work
day folks. Try to find a teacher at the professional development days. Sorry, I
bump into them at the movies. How many times do your kids have substitutes
because teacher is on vacation? Multiple times a month. How about the videos the
kids watch in class the first 2 weeks of school and the last 2 weeks of school.
The job is 9 months minus roughly 2 months of wasted professional and personal
time. Don't pretend to be something you are not.
Sometimes the people who are attracted to education like job security, summers
off, shorter days, weekends off etc. I received my education in northern Davis
County and can truthfully say that the number of teachers who really inspired
learning etc. was limited to maybe a half dozen or so. Unfortunately some
people hang out in the profession and take up space doing a mediocre job. When
I was in Utah it was hard to get bond issues funded, and support staff were
sorely needed such as art, music, and physical education teachers in the
elementary grades. When I taught in Utah, I was never evaluated by any
administrators. In order for educators to get the respect they desire, the
occupation needs a complete makeover. Obama seemed to be intimating that he was
going to help the sorry state of education, but it seems that conditions have
worsened. In Arizona where I now live some districts are going to a four day
week and all kinds of positions and programs are being eliminated.
I hold a degree to teach Elementary School but was not able to find a job in a
tight market in 1997. I took my ambition and left teaching for a computer
industry job, paying for my training as I went. My first computer job paid only
$32000. After 5 years I was up to $50k. Now I'm able to pull 6 figures, but
that comes with costs. My healthcare costs are around $500/mo, not to mention a
$1k deductible and 80/20 coverage. I have no pention plan nor company supported
401k plan. My costs for earning such a high salary eat up that salary in no
time. I live a frugal life, in an affordable house, and yet still work at least
60 hours per week. I have only 10 paid days off each year (those are used for
both vacation and sick time). I'm on-call 24x7 and am usually still on-call
during my vacation.Teachers should be paid more, but it's all
relative. I would love to go back to teach, but it needs to lure me there...it
almost can do that, based on my current costs of living.
Either Mr. Barton (Kaysville Jr. History Teacher) was misquoted or misinformed.
The truth is that all employees - teachers, administrators, and classified will
not receive steps AND will lose two days of pay. With all Quality Teacher
funding being cut by the legislature, teachers immediately lost seven paid work
days. Five of those were restored through other cuts, including the loss of two
days by other employees.Davis School District had cuts of $23 million. All
employees shared in the cuts.
Hello! I'm 19 years old and I was thinking of becoming a teacher. After reading
these comments and realizing how much teachers are hated, I've decided to look
at another career option. I had no idea that the general public was so
unappreciative of teachers. I loved my teachers in school and they helped me
get through rough times in my life. While many in my own family were bad
examples in my life, it was my teachers who provided that good example and
helped to turn me around. I wasn't looking at being a teacher for the money, but
to give back to a system that gave so much to me, but I would like some respect
while doing so and to make a living without having to work another a second full
time job at McDonalds. After reading these comments, I know I probably won't get
any respect. I'm not sure if this negativity is just a Utah thing or if going to
another state would be better if I want to become a teacher. Can anyone help
It is hard to get a summer job when most employers don't want to hire and train
someone for such a short amount of time. Teachers do not get paid vacations
off. They do not get paid for summers. Their checks are spread over 12 months.
They are laid off and the contracts renew in the fall. They do not get comp
time, nor do they get paid vacation time like most jobs in the supposedly "real
world." Teachers also have a high-profile, public job that means they have to
sacrifice some of the things they might like to do such as having a beer at a
family picnic for fear that someone will see them and try to get them fired. As
we have seen in the news lately, many teachers are falsely accused of misconduct
by immature teenagers trying to get revenge for a bad grade or whatever. Also,
don't forget that most people could never do what teachers do. It takes a
certain personality to deal patiently with children. If we paid teachers what
we paid our babysitters, they would be making $100,000+ per year. Teachers are
worth every penny in Utah.
Both the School Board and District Office Administrators could share the burden
of these budget cuts by offering to take a 5% salary decrease. This would not
only reflect the downsizing of the district, but it would also be a public
expression of the goods of the whole, rather than the individuals who can escape
salary cuts because teachers have taken them all.
Yes, most all teachers know full well what their pay will be well before coming
into the profession. And, the complaints in the past have been that they are
paid below what a professional might expect, that is not the issue here. An
agreement was made between each teacher and Jordan District that would allow pay
raises each year (steps), at least in the first 15, and compensation for
bettering themselves through education (lanes). Jordan is attempting to break
this contract in refusing to allow the inevitable pay cuts through other
methods, such as furloughing some days across the board. That is what is at
issue here. It's sad that people are losing jobs. However, for one as
demanding as teaching, Jordan District should do all it can to let teachers
choose for themselves how to make it through this crisis.
Question for you? How much education do you have and how much experience in your
current field? That principal one, is not a teacher but an administrator (they
make more). Also to be that high requires at least a Masters plus 40 semester
hours or an EdD. Then add 25 years or more of experience to their career and
that is why they make $100K. It's just like people who say teachers make $50k
to $60K a year. They do, with a a Masters and 25 years or so of experience.
My wife left public school classrooms because of classroom size, parents that
really could care less what happens in the classroom and now works for a
wonderful private pre-school with low student to teacher ratios, private chef
for lunch, parents that want to be involved with a fair salary and benefit
package. There are options to keep teaching, be happy, and away from the
politics of public education.
The fundamental problem with the state of Utah and education - too many kids and
not enough money to go around. Simple problem but the solution is much more
difficult. You can't keep cutting teachers and programs because Utah is bare
bones right now with education so what do you do? You could raise taxes but Utah
is already one of the highest taxed states and that won't fly. Utah BIG families
get to deduct all their kids on their taxes so the biggest families are not
paying their fair share toward education. My suggestion would be to do as Idaho
did and institute a STATE RUN LOTTERY where the bulk of the proceeds go to
education. Also, limit the deductions per house hold to 5 or 6 for dependents
and thus increase the tax dollar base. Hard choices but what are the
people. I would honestly expect nothing less than many of the ignorant comments
some have posted here. Teachers are taking this one on the back and the
legislators and the citizens who post here are happy about it. Fine. Let's shut
down public education in Utah. No more free daycare! Lets let those who can
afford to get an education pay for it in the private sector and turn charter
schools into elite schools by charging a $10,000 a year tuition to the state per
student (on top of your normal taxes). Can't afford it then you get the
opportunity to home school your children that you as a parent are responsible
for. I think it is about time we place the responsibility for educating children
where it belongs, on the parents. It's not free so let the parents figure it
out. Want kids, accept the total responsibility for them including their
education and how they will make a living when they are adults. Can't afford it,
don't have kids or as many. This will save all of us a ton of money in the end.
RE: Anonymous 2 - If you were as good/hard a worker as most teachers are, you
would be able to get the work 12 months of work done in 9 months like teachers.
You sound like you are whining more than teachers... but you "get paid great and
love what you do." You wouldn't last a month in a classroom. Go back to your
cubicle. I appreciate what teachers do.
Teachers need to do the following: One, in the secondary (high school and middle
or junior high) not do ANY after school activities. It's not part of their
contract and they are contract employees so don't do it. That means no yearbook,
no dances including prom etc., no student government, no sports etc. Let the
parents take time off their jobs to volunteer to do those items (yes, teachers
get paid for some of those things but not much). In both the secondary and
elementary level let teachers show up when they are suppose to and leave when
they are suppose. If grading doesn't get done, not a problem, no time outside of
contract. When your child doesn't have grades to submit to a college, oh well,
that's ok. The point is let them fulfill their contract since they are then
being honest with their employee and let others (parents and administrators)
figure out how to get those other things in. Pay a parent to coach a sport for
$1000 and take the time off work and away from their family. Fulfill the
contract teachers, nothing more.
Read these comments and you'll understand why many leave education or don't
choose it in the first place. Why choose a job where you are degraded and paid a
pittance for the time put in? Are there bad teachers? Yes. Just like there are
bad doctors, lawyers, accountants, politicians, etc. That doesn't mean you pain
the whole profession with the same brush. Get rid of the poor teachers and
praise the good ones. You want the "best and brightest"? Pay a living wage. Stop
treating teachers like criminals or unintelligent dolts who couldn't do anything
else so they went into teaching. You want higher test scores? Take
responsibility for you children. Look at and help with their homework. Attend
parent/teacher conferences. Volunteer at your school. When education becomes
important to you, it will become important to your child. And stop trotting out
international test scores unless you are willing to also point out the
differences which are many. Chief among these is the fact that in this great
country we educate ALL regardless of gender, ethnicity, ability, or language
barriers. Most teachers do their best to help YOUR children to be their
best. Say thanks.
Utah, be nice to your teachers! Here in Texas teachers start at 42,000.
Teachers work hard with lots of overtime. Don't your children deserve the best?
welcome to the REAL world. Folks are losing their jobs left and right, being
forced to take furloughs and pay cuts. What makes you think, while on summer
vacation for 3 months I might add, that you are immune? Hey, you
don't like it? QUIT!!!!I just looked at the pay of a elementary
principal and she is making about $100,000.00 per year. Plus benefits etc......
The legislature cut the professional development days that it had previously
provided for teachers.That amounted to a 5.5 days of pay cut from
salaries, becuse the boards of education throughtout the state had to cut other
areas just to balance the budget.I am not a teacher, but you people who
think they are overpaid are just plain nuts.
I enjoyed the article and remember being in the same situation several years
ago. At least this guy has a job. I have taught for 12 years and my job was
cut. I have 4 kids and am looking for a new job in a tough market-everyone sais
teaching is recession proof-I am not seeing it. I enjoy my job and
hopefully will teach again next year. The money was fine for me, my wife does
not work and we found a way to make it work-you just need to make the right
lifestyle choices. Teaching is a great job with a lot of security, at least I
Mr. Merrell, makes just under $25 per hour. Works 180 days a year, with all
vacations off and the summer. I am sure that Mr. Merrell has a summer job where
the salary is not included in this article. If he does not, he should get one.
All teachers go into the job knowing what the pay scale is. Most
teachers are just luck and glad to have a job right now. As a teacher, I knew
what I was going to get paid. The benifits are great, retirement is good, and
the vacation and sick days are great. I see teachers making well into the
$80,000 in Jordan District. Maybe like everyone else, he needs to put in his
Earlier this year someone in state government said education would be "held
harmless" in the budget this year. Oh yeah, he's on his way to China.
and this should be taken in all seriousness , is not meant as a cut but some
have even had to rob graves to supplement their families...these people deserve
better as they spend the most time with everyone's children. Now the illegals
are putting a huge strain on the system also but we're not suppose to talk about
that and let em just walk around here.
Also, teachers get paid low salaries because there are 15+ people that will do
their job for them for the low salary and probably do just as good of job. An
education degree is easy to obtain and a lot of local graduates want to stay and
teach in Utah because it is their home. I know that teaching isn't easy, and
kids would drive me nuts so that is why I chose not to be a teacher.
I have a great respect for teachers but they really need to understand that the
benefits are really big. (I agree that they are under paid, but benefits can
add about $8,000 to current base). Those of us who are self-employed really
understand what a benefit it is to have good health insurance and even a
retirement plan that someone else helps contribute to. Please instead of being
so upset that you didn't get a raise and even had to take a little cut, be
grateful that you have any income at all there are alot that would give anything
just to have a steady salary.
There is a polarizing talk show host in Utah who is always railing on teacher
pay and teacher unions. He says we don't need people of high quality in the
subject to teach the subject because these kids are only at high school level
and the teachers are college graduates.In spite of his popularity
among some, I wish he weren't on the air, he is a dumbing down influence on
Utah.Utah definately needs to attract high quality people into the
teaching profession. People who know their subject backwards and forward. It
hard to do when the pay is so low.If a person doesn't have a good
foundation in High school, 4 years of university aren't going to make up for
that. There are high school graduates who barely know their math, then they go
on to get a degree in education and become our elementary school teachers, who
are supposed to teach math.Add to this the fact that the schools of
education are promoting destructive methods of teaching, where arithmetic is
gutted, but other things such as hollow geometry, (little thinking required)
(group activities as opposed to individual thinking)ran out space
Teachers who think 9 months of teaching = 12 months of everyone elses work are
in the dark. They forget about all the holidays they get off. I work on
Presidents day. I work on Human Rights Day. I don't get 10 days off for
Christmas, or a fall break, or a spring break, or 2 months off in the summer.
My family members that are teachers vacation, vacation, and vacation! They golf
in the middle of the day!!! I haven't had a "middle of the day" in 3 years. And
don't give me the, "we spend so much time outside of the classroom" speach. You
think salaried employees do 40 hours and then quit? No! They are salaried
because they are working 50, 60, 70 hours a week. I work 24-48 hours straight
soemtimes, and I know no teachers are doing that. I get 2 weeks vacation a
year, and that's it!!! I get paid great and I love what I do!
I have no sympathy for the guy in the story. I'm in a similar situation -
married, one kid and another on the way making about the same salary and yet
we're able to put money into savings each month. Moreover, my benefits are less
than his (no retirement and I pay for my wife's and son's health plan out of
pocket), my wife doesn't work, and we live in a small duplex rather than rent a
whole house, so what's the story here? How many other Utahns are
doing the same thing without calling up reporters to have a big news article
written about their "struggles"? And let's not forget that teachers have about
the best job security in the world, and yet while unemployment is hitting new
heights, they have the chutzpah to complain about no pay raises??So
here's the world's smallest violin playing for Mr. Merrell. That's all you'll
get from me.And P.S. I have to work 12 months a year. I don't have
summers off to find another job.
Don't have a family of SEVEN if the main bread winner is a teacher. It a pretty
simple concept. Im sure with at least 5 kids your family is not paying much in
taxes if any but it will cost around $30,000 per year to educate your children
in the public school system and people are wondering where our tax money goes?
First off all teachers are not complaining, we understand the economic situation
around the world and have accepted what needs to be done. You don't see teachers
holding up signs and protesting. Second if you think every new teacher is a good
teacher I've got news for you. I have worked with new student teachers that
could not make it through a class period, didn't know how to do a lesson plan
and most of all couldn't control the kids for five minutes. Before you get rid
of all the "Older teachers" you better think twice, some of the new teachers
coming in can't even last through the student teaching period let alone 30
years. And lastly the real gripe teachers have is not having to take a pay cut,
its when school administrators don't even suggest taking a pay cut.Pricipals,
vice pricipasl the superintendant and his entire staff. We all have to sacrifice
but they don't?. Teachers are furious they make double what teachers make yeet
won't sacrifice a penny. The real waste in education is at the top. I'm amazed
an article is never writen about this situation.
Teachers are overpaid considering the high level of competition for their jobs.
There are probably thousands of people with teaching degrees in this state that
are not teaching. Yes, most are worth more than what we are paying them but the
market has always borne much lower salaries than what we are now giving out.
I say cut teacher pay even further. Most people just use the public
school system to dump off the kids so they can go work. Because my kids have to
deal with that sort of apathy anyway, I educate my kids at home on most subjects
after the school teacher has introduced them. As long as my kids get something
in school, the teacher is a little better than a babysitter, but that is what I
use her for.
Everyone here seems to think that if we keep underpaying the teachers that the
good ones will leave. They've been saying that since I was a little kid (20
years ago) and there are still a ton of great teachers around. A bunch of my
family teach in the Nebo School District and there are 15+ teachers applying for
every job opening. These are good teachers that want to work in Utah, even
though the pay isn't what they would like. BYU pumps out hundreds of education
degreed individuals every year.
Why were no district board members given the opportunity to explain the current
situation. Jordan School District prides itself on its commitment to students,
and has done everything to ensure that student programs and services are not
affected because of budget shortfalls. When Ms. Stewart would like to finish the
story, we would be happy to comment to help paint a clearer picture of what is
taking place with the upcoming 2009-10 budget.
Your truth is a lie. Step pay raises are decided district by district, not by
the state. My district cut salaries and benefits this year by 8%. 2.5% was
taken directly from teacher steps. Another 2.5% was taken from teacher benefits.
3% was taken by removing options for teachers to make more money, like
professional development classes, etc.
I think it is funny how everyone complains about how much teachers make and
about our education system because when property tax increases are brought up
everyone fights tooth and nail to fight the increases. Where is the money
supposed to come from if people don't want in increase in property tax? Also
illegals being educated are taking costing the state millions of dollars ($6200
per student)that could actually go to pay teachers a higher salary.
The big story here is how new teachers get the shaft from the pay schedules set
up by the teachers union. Rather than try to attract new young talent into the
teaching career, the union is more concerned with protecting the interests of
the older teachers who make up a large majority of the teachers union. And what
do the older teachers want? Higher pay for more experience despite any evidence
that more experience beyond 5 years makes a teacher any better.I
hope the younger teachers are paying attention to this. The teachers union is a
cartel, shielding its members from real competition which in this case, includes
newer teachers, many of whom are also dues-paying members of the union.Just remember, you reap what you sow. It's time for Utah to do away with these
archaic pay contracts and start paying the best teachers the most, regardless of
whether they've been teaching for 5 years or 20.
I know plenty of people that went into education because they have 3 months of
during the summer. Oh yeah, and don't forget two weeks off at Christmas, a week
of during spring break and every other holiday you could ever imagine. Part of my decision process in finding a major and a future career was salary.
If you wanted to be wealthy then you should not have majored in education.
My brother and I went to college together. We both graduated with teaching
degrees five years ago. After one year, we both decided that we desperately
needed to go to graduate school if we wanted to support a family. I have a
Masters in Education and am a National Board Certified Teacher (one of only
about 185 in Utah). My brother got an MBA from the same University. His
starting salary in the business world was more than twice what I make in
teaching. Two years later, he's making three times what I make. We both
absolutely love our jobs. Who made the better choice? I went further in my
education than he did. It will never pay off. The reason teaching does not
often attract the best and brightest minds is purely financial, folks.
my husband is one of two male teachers at his elementary school, and he is a
good teacher. Students cry when they don't get his class. Parents bombard the
Principal with requests to get their children in his class. Probably
the same type of people who tell teachers not to complain are the ones who want
my husband to teach their kid. My husband spends hundreds of dollars
of his own money every year, like many other teachers do, to improve his
classroom. He spends hundreds of extra hours at school, like many teachers do,
to accomplish what can't be done during the school day. His salary
was cut by 700 dollars this year. Not a big deal to many, but to this family of
seven, it means a lot.He is looking for an early morning job to
supplement our income. I hope the extra work doesn't affect his teaching
performance.Yes, he knew that teachers earned little when he started
this career he adores, but aren't you parents glad he stuck with it?
The question isn't how are the teachers taking it. The question is how will it
impact the kids.Remember? The kids is why we educate... for the
What do you do now that pays you up to 3 times more than your teachers salary?
Teachers salaries are not bad when you consider the benefits and actual days
worked. Unlike ALL the other employees of the State, teachers will get their
step pay raise this year. Yet they still complain. How would they like to have
no raise like the rest of the state employees?
Enjoy visiting Utah often. However... it is mind boggling how much teachers in
Utah pay out of their own pocket for classroom supplies and to help students who
also lack supplies.Have family and friends that are teachers here.Sure we too have had budget cuts but Utah's cuts are more like slices off an
already too low teacher's wage.Those of you that say you wish you had that
wage...then go to school and be a teacher. Over crowded rooms, little to no
teacher assistants, and a work week that far exceeds the actual hours paid for.
. Parents often say to me after volunteering and leaving exhausted..."I don't
know what you get paid but it is not enough." Children today have lots of
emotional baggage brought to school and media/electronic frazzled brains. Your
teachers ARE dedicated and yet so undervalued.Bless your Utah teachers.
May the STATE WAKE up. Pay them at least the norm of your country. Be grateful
for your teachers. You that are so quick to judge...YOU try it and see if you
can do it!
The fact is teachers get paid for 9 month's. I don't care how much over time
they put in. I work 12 months and put in about 60 hours per week and only get
paid for 40 hours per week. We just took an across the board 3% pay cut to
eliminate having to lay off more people. Stop whining, the job is what it is,
many don't have jobs. Several teachers live around me and make $50,000 plus and
I don't see them putting in all that much overtime, if any. If your worked in
the real world you would understand long hours and low pay.
He's getting a degree from the University of Phoenix. Why should the school
district pay him for a worthless degree?
The problem with teacher salaries is that it attracts too many people into the
field who really aren't that good at educating youth.Not enough
teachers have the wisdom to reject stupid educatonal ideas. It would seem that
not teaching phonix would be an idea an educator would reject. Phonix requires
students to learn the letters and about 35 sounds associated with the letters,
from there students get a good foundation on reading. But no, modern educators
said, we will use the -look say- method instead. Which requires students to
learn every word in the english language they hope to use.The same
goes for math education. Before the recent change in the Utah math core. There
were increasing numbers of schools in Utah who did not teach times tables or how
to do arithmetic by hand. Which is bad enough on its own, but later these
students have a very hard time in Algebra.We are paying teachers too
little and attracting to many of the dumbest college graduates to go into
education. Especially in math, we need to raise teacher pay, and at the same
time, we still need to raise standards which are still too low.
I went to school in Europe. There were 5 levels of high schools. If students
were late bloomers, they could move to a higher level of high school, because
only after graduating from the highest level of high school could a student go
to college. Doubling a class was a frequent occurrence. Special Ed students
had they own school. No money was spent on games and cheer leading(join a
club), and busing (use a bike or the public transportation system). Only 2
students in my class were 17 when they graduated. The final exams were state
exams and lasted 2 weeks. Graduation was contingent upon passing the exams, and
I knew many kids who had to repeat those exams the next year. Teachers were
state employees and were paid reasonably. All teachers had degrees in the
fields that they taught. Those were the good old days, but after school I had a
solid foundation in calculus, physics, chemistry and 3 foreign languages.
College was a piece of cake for me. All my three kids graduated from high
school with at least the first semester of calculus behind them. I helped them
pick their classes.
No wonder Utah is 50th in education!I guess we really don't care about the
KIDS.I think all the sport players out there should give part of their
salaries to teachers (across the nation) So we can improve our quality teachers
and our KIDS will get a great education and not be run over by other nations.Everyone is struggling in the Finance department, thanks to the current
President. It is only going to get worse, and if we don't have quality teachers
(because they all left the field for higher paying jobs) our KIDS are not going
to learn about our Great Founding Fathers and others who fought for FREEDOM so
we could be FREE! God Bless the USA!
I've worked 21 years in education and I am concerned about the value our society
puts into education. For example, My son graduated from SUU last year in
business and hried on at a energy company in SLC for 65,000 a year with better
benefits than educators have. I have worked 21 years and earned a masters degree
and I won't ever reach 65,000 as a teacher. Like I tell my children, stay away
from education until until our society truly values it. We are often compared
to asian counties when scores are compared but we never want to talk about how
teaching is seen in those countries compared to America.
"You get what you pay for".Let's see how many qualified teachers we
can drive out of the profession this year.
The bottom line is Utah public education is under-funded. You can say what you
want about teachers and teachers Unions in Utah but the bottom line is that a
Teacher cannot make a living wage in Utah anymore. It is crazy that we expect
these people to help us educate our future Doctors, Lawyers and Stake Presidents
but fail to pay them even close to a living wage. Nearby states are doing cool
things with their children like Apple Laptop initiatives (WYO) and paying nearly
twice as much to the teachers. We will soon be creating our own self fulfilling
prophesy about public education. Only in the USA do we educate every child. This
is a great tradition that needs to continue. It is the only social program we
should be funding. I am not a teacher. I can't afford to be.
FYI - I left the military after four enlisted years and returned to college to
be a teacher. After three years of paying to go to school, rather than being
paid to work, I was offered less to teach than I made three years before in the
military. In the military I got 30 days of paid leave a year, as a teacher I
got June and July to continue my education. I left Utah to teach in
another state that paid better, but returned two years later because Utah is my
home. After just one year of teaching in Utah I left the classroom because I
could not support my family as a teacher in Utah.Education faces
economic pressures just like every other industry. The sad part is that many
teachers have options, maybe not this year, but soon. The point of the article
is that a young teacher with an MBA can leave teaching and receive a much higher
salary in the business world. Unfortunately many fine teachers do leave the
classroom or leave the state, just so they can support their family. I wish we
could afford to keep the best teachers in the classroom.
I know some teachers are very dedicated and spend many hours before and after
school improving their classrooms or giving extra help to struggling students,
but they earn in nine months what I earn in twelve months, so I find it hard to
sympathize too much. However, I do think it is unfair that teachers are always
the ones called on to sacrifice whenever education has to make financial cuts.
I have always thought the administrators of education, both on the school and
district levels, are way overpaid for what they do. Let them sacrifice a bit
too, which would show their support for their teachers (after all, weren't they
all teachers before their current higher status positions?!).
I am a teacher. I get every holiday off, summers with my kids, not a great
salary, but more than most with a bachelors degree. I am grateful.
The problem is teachers have to get their raises from the legislature. That
wouldn't happen if they weren't vocal about it. Sad but true.I
predicted this would happen in our district. The old teachers run the
negotiations in each district because they are in charge of the "association".
They negotiated a pathetic settlement this year. Freezing steps and lanes is
the worst thing you could do to a young teacher. The story gets that point
right on the money. A young teacher that completes a degree at his own cost
will now receive no compensation for that degree. Young teachers stick out
those first few years because they know if they can make it to about year 7 then
they will be making decent money. I would guess that every young,
male teacher trying to support a family is seriously reconsidering the idea of
staying in education right now. The uninformed posters say they are
sick of the whining. Well, keep saying that if you wish but be prepared for no
men in education and no professional teachers. It will soon be an
hourly job.I just saw a job posting for an hourly elementary
It is pretty ridiculous that the average starting teacher in Utah still
qualifies for food stamps. Paying some taxes IS patriotic! You get what you
pay for -- pay less and the best will leave.
The United States does not put its emphasis on education, thus they do not
attract the best and brightest to become educators. Some countries value
teachers and only those with top credentials are given the opportunity to be
educators. Our country is now about 24th in achievement compared with other
industrialized countries around the globe. Often high school seniors are
unprepared to enter the university or the world of work. It has been proven
that the delivery system of educating a student an education is about four times
more expensive per pupil in the United States than other countries. Tjere needs
to be a major overhaul of education from the ground up. It is no longer enough
for teachers to teach facts and figures. Students can get that from the
internet. They need to learn critical thinking, problem solving, values,
leadership, how to be team players, etc. Administrators need to be mentors and
provide opportunities for teachers to be observed and be given opportunities for
continued growth. Our students can't even compete for some of the scientific,
mathematical, and medical opportunities in the top tier universities. Asian,
and other foreign students fill those ranks.
Leaving the teaching profession was one of the best decisions I've ever made.
Three years after leaving the profession, and I'll be making 2.5 to 3 times as
much money--at an easier job.A lot of amazing people remain teachers even
though they could succeed elsewhere. Putting penalties on young teachers, like
Jordan School District is currently doing, will drive some quality teachers to
reconsider their career path.The LDS prophets have told us that employers
will pay us what they believe we're worth. Doesn't say much about society's
respect for teachers, does it. Tough job (you try disciplining 35 14-year-olds
all day long, day after day). Crappy pay (especially starting out). No respect
from students, parents, administrators, or society.If you're thinking
about getting out, it may be the best career choice you ever make.
I wish I had a job that paid $35k. I appreciate what teachers do but quit
whining. At least your jobs aren't being eliminated.
The United States does not put a high priority on teachers. It pays medeocre
salaries and attracts mediocre candidates to the profession. The United States
ranks 24th in the world in achievement in math, reading and writing. Finland,
however, who ranks number one in achievement goes after its best and brightest
students as teachers. They put a high emphasis on education. Many of these
countries who rank significantly higher than the United States are able to
educate their students at about one fourth the cost of the United States. There
needs to be a major overhaul with teachers beginning with their university
training. Teachers are not preparing students for the 21st century by teaching
problem solving, critical thinking, and collaboration and leadership skills.
Many high school graduates are not ready for the university or the world of work
when they leave high school. Administrators are often unprepared to mentor
beginning teachers to help them grow professionally. I taught in the Provo
School District in the seventies. There were no music, art, or physical
education teachers for elementary students. The classroom teacher was required
to teach everything, even though most were not equipped to do so. I was never
The Jordan board could fund the shortfall by increasing class sizes, but that
means more layoffs - i.e. young teachers.The legislature could have
funded the shortfall by choosing to do fewer road projects and put more funding
in education. That would have served the young teachers. The
Jordan board didn't make this problem, but they have to figure it out.Chances are that a young MBA can find more lucrative work than teaching high
school. It just looks like this guy wanted to make a difference but won't
afford to. That's too bad.Utah will get what it's willing to pay
Thank you to Amy K. Stewart for writing an article that actually gives the
teachers' side of what is going on in Jordan School District. Jordan District
has been very careful how they have phrased the terms of their offer to the
teachers for the 2009-10 school year...I should say they have been careful to
the point of misleading to any teachers who may be uninformed about what is
$34,500 isn't so bad when you compare it with some who do not have a job.
Teaching seems to be a way to dodge the economic bullet. When I started my
school district put me on the 4th step as a reward for my time in the military
and my salary that years was $6300. My good friend started at $15,000 as an
accountant. My family had to scrape but we made it. I shed no tears for this
teacher's situation. At least he has a job and his wife can help--that is the
way life is today.
To Ed Secretary - You may think that teachers only work nine months; however, if
you were to add in all of the extra unpaid hours that they work, and then add in
2 or 3 weeks of PAID vacation time (which teachers do NOT have, but SHOULD have
if they were treated like other professionals), you would find your totals
coming in fairly close to 12 months of work.
Steps and lanes is garbage. The teachers union screws over the younger teachers.
There are so many old fossils that need to be dismissed from the system. Why
would they leave, however, when they get rewarded for time served. How education
ever got away with a salary system that doesn't reward performance is beyond me.
Oh wait, the powerful unions are to blame. If teachers were paid for
performance, you can bet many young teachers would be making more than the older
ones. There's enough money to be more equitable. Start paying based on
performance. I don't understand why those who pay the salaries, the taxpayers,
don't demand it.
I too get sick of the griping and whining. I get sick of the griping and
whining of those that think all teachers do is gripe and whine. Every year,
teachers have to do battle with the state legislature, the district
administration, and others who would have them work for nothing. This year is
no different. Unfortunately, many of you that are commenting think that
teachers should just be quiet, count their blessings, and go about business as
usual. If they were to do this, then they would be taken advantage of over and
over again. You are correct that this is like every other profession and
industry out there. The times are tough, and everyone has to fight for what
they need and want. Teachers are no different. What is drastically unfortunate
is that the Jordan School District and others are choosing to have those that
make the least, shoulder the burden for ALL. As new and talented teachers look
at education as a career, these decisions will persuade many to think twice, and
likely to go another way. Sad...because my kids are just entering the
educational system, and I want them to have the very best.
When teachers, etc. complain about their salaries, they forget to divide by 9
and not 12 months. The salary is spread out so a pay check is received every
month. My daughter just graduated from a University and she can't even get a job
and she's qualified in several areas.
Just another example of teachers using the media to tell the public how "little
they are being paid". They knew the salary when they started pursuing the
career. Everybody is facing financial shortfalls. Somewhere in all that
education some teachers failed to learn economics apply to them too. Maybe they
should learn to quit complaining at least they have a job!
The point is that it is the young teachers who are bearing the brunt of district
budget cuts. These are the teachers least financially able to afford cuts. It
is young people that need to be recruited into the teaching workforce in order
to improve education. The teachers at the top of the payscale should suffer the
same reduction in pay. They are part of the system also.
Every ear we hear the same old stories about teachers being underpaid.Teacher salaries are public record and anyone entering the field should know
that they are not going to get rich teaching.Lots of families depend
on both parents working in order to live at the standard which they desire.Many other workers are taking pay freezes and pay cuts during these hard
times, and teachers should not be exempt. However, school district should make
serious cuts in other overhead expenses before cutting teacher pay. (Can the
district big wigs get along with one or two fewer assistants or secretaries?
Would that make a difference for kids in class?)Before people whine
about the hourly pay for teachers, let's point out that compared to many entry
level jobs for college grads (or those who can find work) teachers do pretty
well.There are a lot of college grads in the military, both as
officers and enlisted. Their jobs are at least as important and a lot more
difficult and far more dangerous than teaching. If you think military pay is a
lot better, there are recruiters waiting to talk to you.