Parent who testified for the change quits group after 'inappropriate' e-mails sent
With all that parental help, and the strong support from community - why does
most of the dues need to go outside of the school - except National and State
PTA has political agendas that they use the funds for via lobbyists.
PTOs can and do get insurance. That they can't is a common myth spread by the
PTA.No one is suggesting that parents shouldn't be involved or that
volunteer work doesn't bring value to schools. But parents can be involved and
all that good work can and will continue, even if the group at the school isn't
technically a PTA.
It's all about the insurance. That's why we pay our dues. If you are a parent
helping in a school, and serving caramel apples at the school carnival, and a
kid chokes on the apple and his parents want to sue you ... PTA has
insurance.Parents can go and help and make decisions on things, they
just can't vote for who is in charge of the PTA if they aren't a member of the
PTA. They can't vote on how the PTA spends the PTA money, but they can go to
school board meetings and have a say in how the school district spends money.
It's 5 dollars, who cares?
Parents are needed in our Schools! Any organization willing put forth the hours
of service, dedication, and committment to the welfare of our children should be
applauded. The PTA is a strong force for good in the lives of our children.
Five dollars a year is a small price to pay for the millions of dollars the PTA
returns to public schools. Dollars, programs, support and volunteer hours spent
on all children in public schools, not just on the children who have parents who
are members of PTA. The PTA works to encourage all parents to be involved in
the education of their children member or non-member alike. It is the
constitutional right of parents to pay membership dues to PTA if they want to.
It is the PTA's right to ask that its officers be members of its organization.
There is room for all parents and organizations willing to support the education
and success of our children.
If the PTA wants to survive in this state they need to camp out on legislators
lawns. Make these people accountable. Break up the monopoly of Republican
anti-education representation. Throw them out of office.
This bill has brought out a lot of discussion about whether or not schools
should allow PTA in the door. Has anyone thought about what section 5 of SB199
means to other organizations. This morning I was listening to the radio and
they were interviewing a young lady from Provo who had just won the Western
States free-throw competition and was going to be competing against other young
people across the country. They asked her how she got involved in this
competition and she explained that there was contest held at her school which
was sponsored by the Elks Club. If SB199 passes with section 5 in it, the Elks
Club will no longer be welcome in her school. No more competition. Other
organizations such as the Rotary Club will be not be allowed into the schools to
honor students with awards for excellent work. Let's get back to
what is really important. The well-being and education of our children. All
parents are welcome into the schools whether they are a PTA member or not. Why
nit-pick. Join or don't join, that's your choice - but be there!
Why do we send $ to state and national PTA? What can they possibly do with all
that money? That's easy to answer. They return it to the schools through
training, awards and direct help. How many people are aware that when Katrina
struck the South and destroyed homes and schools that the National PTA took
thousands of backpacks filled with supplies and distributed them to needy
children so they would have something with which to attend school. How did they
supply them? Guess what - it was dues sent from across the country (including
Utah)! States dues are returned to the schools through Region level boards in
much the same way as National. Region boards train council boards who train
local schools who train their own members. And of course, not one penny is spent
in salary. All work is done voluntarily by parents (not just moms)who want to
see ALL children succeed. National and State PTAs are able to learn from other
states and pass on knowledge to Utah which can only benefit our children. Why
do we send them dues? Because it benefits us all!
In response to Former Assistant: As a former treasurer myself, I'm surprised
that your PTA only spent 1/4 of the funds raised by your organization. The
schools I've been associated with have always spent as much money on our
students as we could. We would only carry-over about 1/4 of our budget for the
next year in case our fundraisers bombed. The PTAs that I am familiar with
focus on raising funds (including a portion of the dues) in order to continue
educational and physical fitness programs for the students. All members of the
local schools PTA have the right to help choose what the budget should be for
The members of PTA at my elementary school put in long hours to support the
school, the teachers, and the students. They work on attendance, the Reflections
awards and numerous other things. Most of these volunteers could run a
small/large business instead of volunteering their time. The money often goes to
student awards, teacher dinners and other kindnesses, and field trips. In true
Utah legislature fashion this group of volunteers is being bashed for supporting
their school...and sorry, I give no credence to the Collins complaint. She'd be
welcome to support and volunteer in any capacity in the school. Of course she
couldn't be president. Why would she want to be president of a group she doesn't
want to join? The PTA's and PTO's of this state are parents and teachers working
together to help children, especially with the parents supporting the teachers.
Honestly, that's the bottom line and the parents (moms and dads) are great. PTA
memeber or not, volunteer at your school and support the education of your
To Former PTA Officer: PTA is in-step with the rest of the nation and our
students; Bigots with their own agendas to push, i.e. Gay-bashing, are
out-of-step!! This isn't even about those issues, it's about dues. PTA has a
hard enough time trying to operate in my school, and is often helped by those is
higher offices. A PTO wouldn't have this ability -- no support, no resources!
Let the PTA do what they do best, taking care of things for which we teachers
are very grateful.
When and where did you see the "Heather.." book? I have been attending the
State PTA Conventions for over 14 years and I have never seen that book at any
of them. Please tell us where and when, i.e. date, at least a year, and
location, physical location.
"Heather Has Two Mommies" was one of several books present at the PTA convention
and as part of the display promoting Utah awareness of social issues - promoting
the Gay and Lesbian agenda here in UTAH. Perhaps the responder would like to
hide the facts as to what I personally saw as a Legislative Vice-President here
in Utah. The promotion is out of step with Utah values, but PTA dues help that
At the time of budget cuts this bill takes away another "penny' from our
cash-deprived schools. PTA dues are used to provide services to students and
parents, it's a "neighbor helps neighbor" type of support. If one parent can't
or does not want to pay $5, then the other parent will, and the moneys will fund
activities for both families. Why should anybody kick out an organization "with
dues" to invite to schools a parent organization "without dues". Leave this
decision to individual families, not to legislature, if you really care about
PCE--Parents for Choice in Education seems to have many people on its payroll
trying to sway public opinion on issues such as vouchers or the elimination of a
true parent led education--the PTA. This bill is the antithesis of what Bramble
purports it to be. Its sole purpose is to ban the PTA in retaliation for their
noble efforts of repealing the Voucher law the legislature had been paid to put
through.Before this current Bramble led attack happened, our
legislature eliminated the public's right to challenge laws through the
petitioning process. The courts struck that one off the books. It was created
solely to block any efforts of the people to stop vouchers the next time they
come around.There is nothing different in this attack. We need to
hold these politicians accountable and put true representatives of the people in
office. I just wonder what the next target is going to be?
Sen. Bramble has been waiting to get back at the PTA for their work against
vouchers. Bramble was one of the leaders in the vochers and tried to pass the
law against the will of the people. Now he is attacking the PTA. There are much
bigger issues in education then the PTA. I have seen what good work the PTA does
in the schools. They have fundraisers that provide money for the schools that
the schools couldn't function without. People who do not want to pay the $5 can
still have a voice in the schools; but really it's $5.00.
I am amazed at the animosity shown towards PTA in many of these comments. There
is nothing self-serving about what I do with PTA. Yes, I could just go home and
spend all my time with my kids, but what about all those kids that don't have
good influences in their lives? I volunteer my time for them, too, and my kids
love to help me. PTA lobbies - yes - but for programs and laws that will HELP
ALL CHILDREN; not just their own. I don't know any Principal who checks for PTA
cards at the door - they will take help from anybody and talk to anybody about
their children's education. If this bill is really about encouraging parental
involvement, why in the world would you try to exclude the largest parent
organization in the state?
Goodness gracious, Mr. Bramble, how about you attend to some actual business
(i.e., ethics reform; budgetary shortfalls) and we'll worry about the secret
agendas of moms with cookies some other year? I'm sure the PTA could use some
improvement, but now really is not the time for "public servants" to be charging
at social-issue windmills with Mitzi "Sancho Panza" Collins following behind.
Then again, it's probably not really about the PTA. It's about
pandering for votes of the ultra-conservative, same as usual.
Does someone just want to give that lady 5 bucks so she can be PTA president?
Our conservative legislators would LOVE us to believe that the PTA is evil. One
less obstacle in privatizing education in Utah. The PTA has only been an
influence for good in our schools. Oh, and we've also done he books for our
schools PTA. Shame on that secretary for allowing the PTA to not spend the
money in their own school. She was part of the problem.
In the article I read: "Bramble said rumors that his bill is revenge on the PTA
because of its support for school vouchers is untrue."Was this an
intentional error in wording? The PTA actually OPPOSED school vouchers, while
Bramble couldn't wait to prostitute himself to the national voucher support
movement. Please adjust this article to reflect the truth, D-News.In addition, Collins seems to be complaining that she can't "move up" within
an organization that she refuses to pay her dues for due to their "liberal
agenda" (i.e. she was for vouchers, they against). But this doesn't address the
fact that Collins or ANY parent can currently form a group and have equal access
to schools and administrators. If they aren't given that access, it's something
they should take up with those administrators,Bramble, Eagle Forum,
Sutherland Institute, etc have obviously not given up their "pro-voucher" fight
to undermine our public schools.Bramble's bill is as ridiculous as
My wife was at one time the PTA secretary. I was her dutiful assistant. She
(we) kept the books for the PTA. The PTA held fundraisers and spent only about
1/4 of the money raised. The rest of the money went into the PTA savings
account and earned a pitiful interest. The PTA just kept building this nest egg
and rolling it over one year to the next. After this experience we stopped
paying PTA dues. We eventually stopped sending our kids to public schools.
You must have not been a PTA Officer in Utah. In Utah, the PTA does not promote
the Gay and Lesbian agenda and on a National level none of the Utah PTA dues go
to promote the Gay and Lesbian agenda. This is thanks to a federal law that
makes it legal for dues paying organization members to ask that their money not
go to a candidate or ideal that they do not agree with. Since Utah PTA does not
agree with the Gay and Lesbian agendas or ideals, none of our money goes to pay
for them. You cannot even find that book in a Utah PTA, unless one of your
local leaders ordered it from National PTA and paid for it his or her self.
are you willing to write legislation that will make it illegal for the Utah
State Legislature to be a member of the National Conference of State
Legislatures(NCSL)? I notice that you are an At-Large Legislative Member of the
governing committee. Since they are a membership charging
organization and have opportunities for non-legislators to join. I want to
join, but I do not want to be charged any dues to join and I want full authority
to vote on all matters, including who is running it and how the money is spent.
You see I don't think that they should be spending time on immigration issues,
that is a federal issue and they shouldn't be spending time on legislative
ethics, we don't need anyone telling the legislators about ethics they are the
experts!Frankly, Sen. Bramble and supporters, this bill is a waste
of your very limited session time. The Federal Government already requires
equal access to all parents and parent groups in a public school. If your PTO
feels unwelcome then they need to meet with the administration and fix that
problem on a local level, not on a state level.
I was a Legislative VP in the local PTA - yest the have someone with that title
in every school. I found that the PTA provided a lot of good in the school in
brining parents together with classroom teachers to help student. But there is
also another side of promoting legislation that is very much driven by national
and state agendas including the promotion of materials and topics into schools
such as "Heather Has Two Mommies". Local membership dues goes in part to
support that agenda, regardless of what local members want. I support the
The Deseret News ought to go back in their files and find out why Dawn Frandsen
with the support of a great majority of the parents pulled Wasatch Elementary
out of the PTA when she was the PTA president there several years ago. Or, have
Dawn write a piece about the PTA's national agenda that this $1.75 per member
goes to be pay for. She is a very bright, articulate person who will receive no
financial gain if this law is passed -- as it should be. There are
some things in the national PTA's written agenda that would curl most Utah
parents' hair (and I am not just talking about the narrow minority of parents'
who affiliate with the Eagle Forum or the Sutherlund Institute).
I for one want the opportunity to influence state and national policy. When the
AIDS epidemic came out, everything was about safe sex. Our council PTA
sponsored a resolution that asked state and national PTA to focus on abstinence.
And guess what - it passed overwhelmingly with help from many other states from
many different religions and backgrounds. The national wording from our
resolution was used on all their AIDS educational material. We can sit in our
own little home and school or we can make a difference at the national level. I
for one value that opportunity to have a voice.
Utah ledislatue get out of our lives. If Collins does not like the national PTA
then she can create a PTO at the school. If she is willing others will follow.
The if she wants to wave fees more power to her. It's my experiance that if she
is willing to do the job as PTA/PTO president, the school is not going to care
if it is PTA or some new PTO. All they want are people to help with parties,
reflections, science fair, eye screenings, scoliosis testing, etc, etc, etc. We
don't need more stupid laws on our books. Retaliation? You bet it is. There
is no other reason for this stipid ledgislation.
If the representatives of the Utah Evil Forum and the Sutherland Destitute
support this it is definitely a bad idea.
"do you want a state and national voice for parents and children?".... No I
don't. Because I don't agree with atleast some of what that PTA "voice"
is saying at the state and national level. We can always appeal directly to our
state and federal officials, perhaps not as effective, but atleast I know what
message is being sent.I'm definitely going to look into this PTO thing...
There must be a reason that most schools nationally have gone to this format.
Why are we dragging are feet in Utah?
Its not that Utah PTA wont do what Bramble is asking, its that they cant.
Thats what a member organization is all aboutmembers directing the organization.
Changes must be done through the membershipnot the legislature. This should
all be resolved without Sen. Brambles help!
There are many ways to participate in PTA. PTA rules do not keep anyone from
being involved. One person mentioned she couldnt direct where her money was
spent. However, she is not required pay dues to PTA, and she can donate any
amount of money to the PTA, or through the Utah School Foundation, and can
direct exactly where that money is spent. There are also other leadership
opportunities in every school through the Community Council; PTA is not the only
avenue available to anyone. Parents may also sponsor another parent
organization at their own school. This is done in some Utah schools, and
regularly done in many schools around the nation. PTAs and PTOs work together
many schools, imagine that ladies, working together. What about not making it
PTO vs. PTA, but PTO and PTA. Im sure PTA (or PTO) would prefer to have every
parent as a member in PTA (or PTO). Im sure both recognize however, there are
some parents whose mission and purpose might differ from that which PTA (or PTO)
can provide. As a parent I'd rather we came up with the solution and not Sen.
Listen to them on Utah's capitol hill. PTA representatives are testifying in
favor of almost every anti-liberty bill that the Righteouslature considers.
Everyone needs to go to the two basic questions. Do parent groups have equal
access? The answer is yes. School districts recognize PTOs and PTAs both and
sometimes in the same school. Can an organization related to a public entity
charge a membership fee? Again yes. Nearly all of our public organizations
have associations or organizations that serve them including school board
associations, superintentendent associations, public employee associations, etc
and many of them charge fees for their services. Why would anyone want their
fee waived to join a group if they don't agree with their agenda. Start your own
This is a carefully orchestrated agenda that has Eagle Forum written all over
it. First retaliate against PTA for supporting vouchers. Next, get an innocent
sounding victim to tell how harsh the PTA has been. Finally, get the phone tree
to spew their anti-public education agenda in these comments. Who is running
this state, the people or Gayle?Whether you like PTOs or PTAs, the
question is, "Do you want a state and national voice for parents and children?"
If you think a voice is needed, you need PTA, not unaffiliated PTOs.Can you guess what Gayle's Eagle Forum and our pro-voucher legislators want?
Banning pta parents is only a step towards forcing vouchers once again on the
This is just another example of the Utah legislature seeking revenge because the
PTA lobbies for children. The PTA is just about the only voice for the children
of Utah. If the legislature can quiet the PTA, vouchers could make a comeback.
Everyone is getting out on control on this issue which is exactly what the
Bramble is promoting. Lets not talk about the budget cuts. There is $450
million dollars being cut from the education budget this year. Thats more than
$750 a child and $22,000 per classroom. What do they have parents dealing with?
Whether $5.00 should go to the PTA to; support volunteers, programs, and
activities for our underfunded schools. We are missing the boat people. Forget
this issue and start talking about funding our schools this year!
I don't mind having the PTA, but I don't think it's fair to charge parents a fee
to join. A parent should feel welcomed to join, cause believe it or not even
$5.00 that the PTA ask for at the beginning of the school year is alot of $$ for
some families, especially those with kids in jr. high and high school when they
just finish paying school fees and the last thing we want to do is pay another
fee. that's why I don't join the PTA cause I shouldn't be obligated to pay to
want to help my kids' schools. I don't want to pay to help a national
This bill makes complete sense to me, if I want to join my local school PTA I
can, without being required to give any of my hard earnd money to the national
PTA that advocates for political issues I don't agree with.If the
PTA does a good job people will continue to pay.No-one should have
to justify the reason they don't want to pay to play to the ladies at their
PUBLIC school. Their tax dollars already pay for their ability to participate
in anything that goes on at their PUBLIC school.If PTA, a PRIVATE
organization wants to require dues then they ought to go build their own
building, get their own copy machines and then they can support any political
agenda they choose.
You all realize the women on the PTA are your relief society members? They are
you neighbors? Talk about demonizing. Sheesh.
Bramble wants the PTA to go away for one simple reason: Vouchers. This parent
group is a threat to the machinations of voucher proponents such as Bramble.
This actually reminds me of the political posturing we see in Venezuela and
Iran. I'm willing to bet that we will see the legislature propose vouchers once
again in the next couple years. I've talked with various legislators who refuse
to look at other ways to support school funding because they are dead set on
vouchers. There hasn't been one bill proposed since the voucher debacle that
tries to secure stable revenue streams for education. In fact, the opposite has
been occurring. I won't name any names, but one Senate Republican and one House
Republican both told me that "there is no other way but vouchers. End of
discussion." I wonder why we elect people who are supposed to
represent us and work for us, but are incapable of doing just that. The
legislature is good at getting money for roads and special interest projects,
but can't ever seem to find any money for K-12 education which is only now 33%
of the state budget.
How much are these dues? Your brats education is free. HEAD TAX, HEAD TAX. Get
these school welfarersoff the role. Maybe if parents acted like parents at
home.Have you heard of discipline & resect, the schools could teach reading,
writing & arithmatic if your mouthy kids would learn & do their home work.PTA & PTO's need to take a back seat to the teachers and let them do their
jobs. Quit your griping, teachers have it hard enough with your unruly brats
then have their parents think their spawn can do no wrong.
Wow, you folks give PTA far too much credit or power. As a former PTSA
member/president I did not get involved in 'running' the school - we held a
couple of fundraisers each year to raise money to buy things for the school and
for teacher apprepciate week; and we held a book fair during Parent Teacher
Conferences. This PTA PTO issue sounds like a couple of moms didn't
get what they wanted and went whining to Bramble who just loves to kick at
I used to be a very strong supporter of the PTA. The PTA had an honorable and
great reputation. However, over the past 10 years I have seen the PTA become
more and more liberal and supporting a political agenda rather than truly
supporting the children and parents they should be serving. Generally I believe that in the local schools the PTA does a great job. It's
when it hits a State and National level that it gets away from the guidance of
the parents and turns to an agenda advanced by large national views.Keep the PTA locally based and operated by parents in individual schools. If
another PTO wants to get started in a school--they certainly should be allowed
to do so.PTA--thanks for your past service but it may be time to
make some big changes. I won't support your political agenda any longer.
I have the solution - Get rid of the useless, time consuming, money wasting
PTA's. Parents Please! The most important action you could take would be to stop
attending or participating in these ridiculous meetings. - Go home and spend
this time instead with your children. And while spending this time with your
children - try actually talking and listening to them. - You might be suprised
how much more meaningful or productive this could be.
"Leeches they are" is right! PTA is a PAC in disguise! Those PTA people go to
the Capitol disguised as caring moms and grandmas and push through legislation
that favors children! They must be stopped. How can we let them lobby for our
children any longer? We should not allow this Parent Teacher Association to
affiliate with parents or teachers anymore! The PTA motto of "every child; one
voice" should be changed to "children should be seen, not heard".Of
course the PTA lobbies and has an "agenda". Any well-functioning organization
has an agenda or a mission statement. PTA has a noble agenda - not a hidden
agenda - to advocate for children and for education. The PTA has been accused
of only caring about $. What do they do with the money from fundraisers? Give
it back to the schools. Pretty pathetic that our schools don't have enough
funds, so someone has to hold a bake sale (or volunteer their precious time) to
make up the difference. Kids succeed in school when their parents
get involved - PTA provides this opportunity. So can a PTO. Either is great.
Keep the PTA in Utah!
I wish our legislators would get out of public education. They already control
the funding, the curriculum, class sizes, and now they want to control parent
organizations. I honestly believe that many of them won't stop until they
completely destroy public education.
What parent would want to serve in their local school if Bramble and the
legislature get involved with it? The State Senate is a group of vengeful,
weird men who support themselves in crazy ideas. And to think this is the year
Huh? I spend 40-50 hours a week as a volunteer leader working with parents who
have problems in their schools, need help navigating the system, and need to
have questions answered. I am a parent myself, with 20 people on my PTA board
who are all working for free to help parents and children, no matter who they
are - PTA members or not. Who is going to do that if there is no PTA
organization? No one is excluding those who don't pay dues. No
principal would fail to listen to a parent - as a matter of fact - no principal
is going to have a list of which parents are PTA members and which are not. This is a vengeful bill against those who love children and have spent
their lives trying to help them. How sad is that?
Regardless of what Bramble says, this is the "We hate PTA legislation" this year
-- it's all about getting even with the PTA for opposing vouchers the past few
years. The PTA is the strongest advocate for public education in the state.
This is BAD legislation (like many others being discussed on the hill these
The names of these groups are really confusing as they are merely a political
action committee (PAC) in disguise. They should be declared a political group
that is in no way affiliated with teachers or parents in school matters. They
are politically motivated by higher eschelons to be watch dogs and grass roots
spokespersons for other political groups legislating laws. Teachers shun these
meeting and don't attend them unless they need support for teachers pay raise or
other financial matters. PTA's should be barred from the schools and seeking
fraudlent funds from parents as they scam the system with false inuendos and
intentions. The same can be said for the UEA, they too are nothing but a
selfserving politically motivated organzation. Education can do without these
groups as they do not serve parents wanting to get involved in education in any
direct or indirect means.
and has since it corrupted our school back in the 80's. We had a great PTO and
all of the funds stayed in our own school. Leadership changed and the new yahoos
thought PTA would be better. We tried to warn them that PTA only cares about
$$$. Don't be swayed by this organization. The entire school system
would be 100% better without these leeches.
This brouhaha illustrates the belief I have had for over twenty years that the
PTA is essentially an extension of the UEA in Utah. A little competition for
direction in the education of our children should be welcome.
Can't bylaws be amended? State PTA says it has to pay dues to the national
organization but I can't believe that could not be altered if this law passed.
And if people love PTA so much they'll keep paying their dues and there won't be
any problem, right? If they stop paying dues and it creates difficulty for PTA,
then that sends a message that it's time for a change. I think PTA is
overreacting. This bill seems fair and overdue. It's time people that don't
want to join PTA (and there are a lot of them) have equal opportunities in their
schools. Don't let PTA bully you legislators! I know they are a powerful lobby
- and that's not always a good thing.
This is exactly why I don't join the PTA. Why does $1.75 go to national? Are
you kidding me? I volunteer my time and talents to the school with out
expecting anything in return and I am grateful to get a high 5 from the kids who
benefit. We had a brawl at our school once and lost our charter because of it!
GOOD GRIEF Ladies... grow up. You sound like you are from wisteria lane.
Title I parents are not "less than". They understand what is important for
their students. We offered scholarships for PTA membership this year for 20
parents in a Title I school. Not one parent wanted one, they wanted to pay
membership. They love being members of the PTA, because they love what PTA does
for them and their children.Should an organization that has 50
members in one school in a school district be given the same voice at the table
as an organization that has 10,000 members? How about a parent organization of 4
or 5?Let's say a few parents - 4 or 5 - get angry with their
school's PTO and form a new parent group with just the 4 of them. Should the 4
of them get the same say as the PTO that represents 400 parents?I am
a little fuzzy about the practical application of this bill.