Man hurt when gun blasts toilet

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  • wallofvoodoo
    Feb. 22, 2010 10:05 a.m.

    Maybe he thought it was trying to run him down.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 22, 2010 10:02 a.m.

    If he had a Kel-Tec P40 it would of not went off.

  • David a menace to society
    Feb. 22, 2010 9:51 a.m.

    to all the men and women in the service who protect us day and night currently serving or retired thank you for your service and advice on this story. as many posts have stated a gun is a tool it is up to the owner to use it wisely as with all tools. the truth of the matter is if someone really wants to do harm to themselves or someone else they are going to find a way to do it! even if it means doing it with their bare hands. so we could go insane and ban everything under the sun as a POTENTIAL weapon and walk around nude in a extremely vain attempt MAKE this world a safer place and it would still be just as dangerous as it is today. why is that? because its the PERSON behind the object/weapon that makes the decision to inflict the harm/damage. so to make the frightened gun haters happy I suggest that we lobotomize the entire populous so that we cant think or act on our own thus being unable to hurt each other :P. seriously people lighten up!! after all it is just a toilet.

  • To Anonymous and E.S.
    Feb. 22, 2010 6:24 a.m.

    For the record, I'm a new poster:

    Anonymous: Yeah, you can chamber as you draw. However, the point is that it takes more time that you likely won't have in a self defense situation. The guy made a mistake, it's obvious, but to say that you should carry, for all intents and purposes, an unloaded gun for self defense is ludicrous. I hope you can throw that gun pretty fast as you're going to need something when the seconds and fractions of seconds count on it. Your life may not be valuable enough, in your opinion, to accept the inherent risks of carrying a loaded firearm, but the lives of my family and friends and my own is.

    E.S.: ANY gun can fail and if you go check out some of the Glock forums you'll see that Glocks fail spectacularly sometimes! There are drop safeties in pretty much all modern firearms that help prevent accidental discharges, but they don't eliminate them as they are a working machine and things fail.

    In my opinion he was being stupid and shot the toilet, got hurt and then freaked out.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 13, 2010 9:15 a.m.

    Guaglione | 11:28 a.m I can chamber a round as I draw to fire. It takes two seconds. It's better to invest two seconds of time than to bury someone. I don't have conservative values.

  • E.S.
    Feb. 13, 2010 6:53 a.m.

    If he would have had a Glock, it is a known that a Glock will not discharge when dropped.

  • deca
    Jan. 27, 2010 1:12 a.m.

    I have one never carried it, but if I did, you bet it would be loaded (maybe not one in the pipe though), and if I had to, I would use it. If there were no guns, murders would use bow and arrows, knifes etc. So don't count every murder with a gun as if it was caused by one. Perp would just use something else. Knife very effective too. More than you suspect. So how about we ban those too? Its just a tool.

  • bayhawk
    Jan. 24, 2010 6:27 p.m.

    What makes this bad is it makes the anti-gunners say "I told you so".I'd rather have my gun in a safe mode,rather than in a place that things like this can happen.Odds are a million to one that you'll never need it.Why have it where it is off safety,and in a state that "you" will be the bad guy by "your" gun going off and killing a good guy.Keep it safe guys and gals.

  • woodman
    Jan. 17, 2010 6:39 a.m.

    If he had a quality holster this would not have happened.

    Jan. 12, 2010 3:46 a.m.

    Well, i have to say this is funny. To all of the gun-bashers on here, let me know how you feel after you are robbed at gun point and wished you would have had a way to save your wallet and jewlery or possibly your life. Face the facts, this is a very violent world today. Some people want to be in denial and sit around and think " whats the odds? it cant happen to me" well, when it does happen then maybe you will understand why there are people out there that actually fear for their lives in this everyday world and wish to protect their lives and property. People that have their CCW permit are TRAINED how to use and carry a firearm. They dont just hand you a gun and bullets and say " go at it". People that carry handguns are at a big risk, because they are responsible for their actions and that makes us all very cautious while carrying a handgun and makes us responsible. Granted there are some idiots out there that just didnt grasp the concept during their CCW class.

  • Seriously?
    Jan. 6, 2010 12:38 p.m.

    To those of you who say "Why carry a gun?", Or "Why carry a gun in a fast food restaurant?" I say, you will never "get it". The point is to be prepared and be responsible for your own protection. Why wear a safety belt? What are the odds of you being in an accident? Yes, it is more probably then needing to use a gun, however, my point is that you do not know WHEN you will need a seat belt or a gun so why not use it? It's the responsible thing to do.

    To those who DO carry and DON'T have a round chambered...why take a minimum of a second or to to chamber a round when a second is all you may have, especially when the bad guy may already have THEIR weapon out?

    I think that more people should carry a handgun, either concealed OR open carry. The world would be a safer place for it.

  • what a Guy
    Jan. 6, 2010 11:56 a.m.

    stupid is as stupid does. who carries a loaded weapon in a fast food joint. Afraid of the Hamburgler??

  • Carrying w/o a round chambered
    Nov. 12, 2009 8:23 p.m.

    If a gun is concealed... unless it is very hard to get to... you still have the element of surprise. Most criminals are not particularly good with their weapons -- no chance to practice. Having said that, you can wait to draw it until such a time that you have the tactical advantage -- when the person taking the action feels comfortable that you are unarmed. Honestly, how many defensive situations have you been in where you needed one in the pipe?

  • Mikey
    Nov. 6, 2009 8:40 a.m.

    If you don't have one in the chamber, then the gun is just about worthless in the situation where you need to act fast, without hesitation, to prevent harm. By the time you jack-off the semi, the other guy has ample time to shoot you, stab you, hit you with a ball bat, etc. A clear mind, self confifdence, ability (i.e., training/competence), mental and physical ability to really do what needs to be done, and of course a quality fire arm and holster are required of anyone who carries. If you lack any of these qualities, them maybe you need more training or maybe you should not carry. Of course accidents do happen to all of us, but like others, I am a little skeptical of the "dropping excuse" unless it the gun was defective. If it was just in his pocket and not in a holster, then this was certainly not the best way to carry.

  • The real question
    Nov. 6, 2009 5:31 a.m.

    The question we should be asking is what sort of person drops a deuce at a fast food restaurant? Have any of you been in a Carl's Jr.s restroom? Sitting on that toilet seat is much more life threatening than being shot.

  • Carrying w/o a round chambered
    Nov. 1, 2009 7:38 a.m.

    I have nothing against someone who carries with a round chambered. I choose not to carry without a round chambered for two reasons: (1) My state doesn't allow me to carry in all places legally, so when I must leave it in the car, I will drop the magazine and take it with me leaving the gun in the car unable to be fired. I have no desire for someone to break into my car and have ready access to a gun ready to fire, and it minimizes my handling when leaving and re-entering the car. (2) If something were to happen to me causing me to become disabled, I wouldn't be carrying a firearm that could be easily fired by a child or other novice. I practice drawing/chambering/shooting so it is second nature to me. It takes very little time and eliminates the difference between the first and second round in my semi-autos whose first shot can be double-action. This is far better than not having one at all, and much safer for me and others. But as I said, I have no problem with those who carry chambered.

    Oct. 25, 2009 12:10 p.m.


  • Joe from GA
    Sept. 30, 2009 10:27 a.m.

    Carry a Glock! I carry a Glock 23 in a Fobus paddle holster. Frankly, any holster on the hip can be a challenge when you do #2, in a public place.

    However, this is mostly to keep from spooking people who see a pistol around your ankle. Agreed, a quality weapon should not discharge from a 3-ft drop.

    For the ignorant: Why would you ever carry a weapon without a round chambered?

  • SLC gal
    Sept. 24, 2009 2:11 p.m.


  • Tommy
    Sept. 24, 2009 1:36 p.m.

    I have a concealed carry license and had a P3AT (Kel Tech) catch on my seatbelt when I was getting out of my vehicle, dropping to a concrete floor in my garage, and striking the back of the receiver. It functioned as it should and did not go off. He should get his weapon checked out. I always carry with a round in the chamber as do most people I know who carry. I don't consider myself dumb or inexperienced having spent 13 years carrying a side arm in the Armed Forces and 20 years as a healthcare provider.

  • Tom
    Sept. 12, 2009 3:08 p.m.

    i must say it is difficult to keep a concealed weapon concealed while using an in the waistband holster. Most stalls have an open lower wall causing your weapon to be visible to all when your pants are dropped. definitely the idea is to keep your weapon holstered until its needed. The trick i use is to reach in and pull my underwear over the outside of the weapon then keep your hand on the gun holster and your pants while pulling them down and up. This works for me. This being said i suggest that what ever method you use should be rehearsed over and over and should be seen as just as important as a weekly visit to the range.

  • Bob
    Sept. 8, 2009 11:13 a.m.

    @goforit: | " statistics show that for ever one time a gun is unsed for abona fide self defense reason there are 120 incidents of acciential shootings, suicides, shooting of another family member, etc."

    These "statistics" are as totally bogus as your ability to spell -- the anti-gun activists who published them only counted KILLING someone in self-defense as a "bona-fide self-defensive" use of a gun. The vast majority of defensive uses of guns don't even involve discharging the gun, as anyone can easily find out, if they are marginally smarter than a box of rocks. (This might be a steep requirement for the committed Progressive, however.)

    Law-abiding folks carry guns to defend themselves, not to kill people. Not everyone is as sick as you.

  • Anonymous
    Sept. 7, 2009 7:27 a.m.

    I don't know of too many inside the waist band good quality holsters which use a thumbbreak or keeper strap as you call it. The holster was probably a cheap brand not form fitted to the weapon. I could do somersaults with my inside the waist band holster and retain my sidearm.

  • Symtorn
    Aug. 31, 2009 5:02 a.m.

    That is why a keeper strap should always be used on the gun. Dont purchase a holster without a strap to keep the gun in place until YOU take it out of its holder.

    All holsters are not safe for all circumstances, you must be aware of your holsters shortcomings at all times.

  • liberal refuter
    Aug. 21, 2009 1:26 p.m.

    From the Kahr Manual -

    Warning: The Kahr pistol has several design features and internal mechanical safeties designed to prevent accidental discharges in the even the pistol is dropped or receives a hard blow.

    Keep it in the holster. Problem solved.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 15, 2009 6:19 a.m.

    A man's got to know his limitations

  • Reasonable
    June 22, 2009 11:23 a.m.

    Kahr warns that a chambered round COULD go off if the gun is dropped. Most manufacturers do. Kahr also warns to check the position of the firing pin for safety before using the pistol and periodically thereafter. An incorrectly and protruding firing pin (aka striker) could have easily been the cause of the firing. Chambering a round in a weapon that has no external safety is a high risk practice. Be smart when you carry, that's what all manufacturers preach. Cheap holsters aren't being smart either. Too bad this all comes down to political viewpoints every time something like this happens.

  • Don
    June 14, 2009 4:03 a.m.

    We do not have the whole story I have heard many stories that say the gun went off. The gun fires when the trigger is pulled! someone or something pulled the trigger.

  • to sid
    June 4, 2009 8:46 a.m.

    sid your right wouldnt have happened with a glock
    would hav had to pull the triger like 10 times to get one of those bricks to go off

  • Skippy
    May 23, 2009 6:59 a.m.

    Nice shot. If it would have been a few inches to the left or right?

  • Dear what A Moron
    May 22, 2009 11:17 p.m.

    Couldn't agree with you more. A quality gun won't fire when dropped. Also he should have a much better holster, that won't let this happen. Thankfully no one was killed.

  • Anonymous
    May 22, 2009 8:29 p.m.

    Wasn't this one of the scenes that Tarantino edited out of "Pulp Fiction?"

  • Conspiracy theory?
    May 22, 2009 4:50 p.m.

    Does anyone think that shooting a toilet at Carl's Junior could be a coded message from the under world for shooting a man named John?

  • Fast draw?
    May 22, 2009 4:33 p.m.

    We are all assumming that this was an accident. Thats a possibility. Another is that he was practicing his draw and shot the toilet outright. He obviously gets marks for accuracy, its the citizenship of an act like this that has me concerned.

  • Anonymous
    May 22, 2009 10:52 a.m.

    *facepalm* come on guys, do you really think this is just a guy marching around with a gun? *obviously* this is someone who works for the government. The police didnt question him? The police ALWAYS question people like that. This is not a guy that shot a toilet by letting it fall, this is a government officer that had a gunfight in a bathroom.

  • I do the research..why can't you
    May 11, 2009 6:26 a.m.

    I'm not surprised to see the "43" number again. 43 more times likely....ok, let's look at the ORIGINAL report that produced that number. Every other source is simply a quote, or reference to, the original report.

    "Discredited" is a strong word, but the study in question is indeed one of the most thoroughly discredited exercises in twisted statistics of the late 20th century. It compared all deaths by gunfire in two communities of similar size; one in Canada and the other in the United States. Under "guns killing householders", it included suicides, many of which typically are the so-called "rational suicide". This is what happens when an individual diagnosed with a terminal disease that brings a long, agonizing death chooses to depart life with dignity. (In some foreign countries, this process is assiste by state-approved euthanasia, not an option in the USA.)

    The latest studies, by Professor John Lott, indicate that in well over 90% of attacks on armed citizens, NO blood is shed as the criminal either flees or submits to citizens arrest until the police arrive.

    Criminals have a strange habit of making sure no police are around first!

  • Disappointed by All of You
    May 7, 2009 7:48 a.m.

    ...There is so much attention paid to this story, yet no one was killed...except the toilet. I've never read a story about the dozens of children that fall from shopping carts every day due to negligent parents that don't keep them belted in and monitor them closely. Some of these children die tragically from the short fall onto the concrete. Should we ban shopping carts or license people to be parents? Some of you think this guy should be incarcerated. Following that logic, why haven't we filled every jail with people that wrecked their car driving drunk. I remember reading back in 1995 that 45,000 people died in alcohol related car crashes in 1994. What is that number now? Listen, everyday we decide to get out of bed we are risking our lives. I carry concealed for the same reason I have fire insurance; I never want to have a fire and I practice good home fire prevention, but I still pay for insurance. Why? Because I never want to say, "If I had only..." Every person has not only the right, but the responsibility to protect his family by any means available.

  • Concealed Carrier
    May 4, 2009 7:27 p.m.

    Hey folks, if you don't like or approve of weapons...don't carry one. But if you just so happen to become one of the many who gets robbed or assaulted each year in the world, don't complain when it does. Carrying a handgun has nothing to do with your level of "self-esteem"; I carry and I have plenty of it - being a Marine may have something to do with it though. We don't carry to start fights or brandish when we don't agree with the views of another. We do it for our own protection and even yours should the event ever present itself - let's hope it never does, but you (we) should at least be ready. It makes no sense to download every time we use the restroom or buy a cheeseburger and I'm pretty sure he didn't carry his into the toilet because he was afraid of the TP! If you are going to download or leave it in your vehicle then you might as well leave it at home. You can count on the bad guy's gun being loaded and ready, shouldn't yours?

  • Oregunner
    April 24, 2009 2:14 a.m.

    Well, I don't know about that Kar but I could pound railroad spikes with my colt combat commander and not have to worry about it going off. (Not that I am willing to try)...I may try on an old toilet though..

  • Eric
    April 18, 2009 8:51 a.m.

    I proudly carry a glock 27 with one in the pipe! Why? Because when seconds counts the police are only minutes away!

  • Eric
    April 18, 2009 8:46 a.m.

    I proudly carry a glock 27 with a round chambered! Why? Because when seconds count..police are only minutes away

  • Unreal
    April 16, 2009 3:52 p.m.

    Reading the comments here once again shows that there are a LOT of people out there that have no clue what so ever about concealed carry. So please, to all you that fit that catagory, don't get a concealed permit.

    Leave it to those of us that have the guts to pull a loaded gun (yes, with a chambered round) when it's your college kid that the psycho is aiming at and planning to kill.

    Sure, there will be some people that get a permit that shouldn't, but it's the same as drivers licenses. Some dummies you see on the road should never be allowed to drive.

  • Wait & see
    April 16, 2009 9:58 a.m.

    For all you anti gun freaks out there,more people are killed by Doctors every year than by guns.
    Check it out...

  • 3 time Iraq Vet
    April 15, 2009 7:02 p.m.

    I am really trying to figure out why all these "Civilians" are figuring he was "Dumb" for keeping a round in the chamber!? That is how the GUN WORKS idiots!!! We Conceal Carry for Self Defense, round has to be in the chamber.. If you Tax Payers are worried about "Your Safety" try Driving with BOTH HANDS, not talking on your CELL PHONES!! Hell trying EATING PROPERLY. Most of the Anti Gun/Carry yokels are probably obese and will die from a Heart Attack before some one ACCIDENTALLY SHOOTS THEM... BTW, I am happy to serve your country

  • Edumacated Virginian....
    April 15, 2009 12:44 a.m.

    This truly is the funniest thing I've seen all week...but something isn't being told to us here. The majority of modern firearms have drop safeties. I could pound on my Sig Sauer from 1979 with a sledge hammer or throw it off a building and it still wouldn't go off.

  • Karen
    April 13, 2009 3:30 a.m.

    I have no experience with guns myself, but to all those commenting on how irresponsible it is to ever have one in the chamber... I thought the point of a concealed carry license was so that you have the training to carry a loaded gun. There may be some instances where you'd have a minute to load it before disaster strikes, but I don't know many violent offenders who wait patiently while you load your gun. Concealed carry is so you can responsibly carry a loaded weapon, on safety and in a quality holster, and with a lot of caution. Am I being unreasonable here?

  • What are you talking about?
    April 7, 2009 2:02 p.m.

    I will not use blanket statements however, I will say that when I was in the military, I carried with one in the pipe. While off-duty and in civies (with my CHL) - one in the pipe. And now that I am retired from the military ... one in the pipe.
    Most (not all but most) people that carry, either concealed or in the open, have one in the pipe. Why? Because you may not have both hands available to rack the slide to chamber a round...or you may not have TIME to chamber a round. And to repeat a post from earlier..."better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." It is OK to not know something...if you don't know, SHUT UP AND YOU MAY LEARN SOMETHING!!!

  • CCW
    March 16, 2009 2:11 p.m.

    having a CCW in arkansas. i can state the majority of my neighbors are armed. while i carry a sig p220 i have dropped the gun numerous times. (mostly during a training excerise. and it has never fired. for those who think gun was not loaded, it was locked and loaded.) i am police officer, and at time were are required to "drop and shop" drop our current weapon and change to a different weapon, and through out all that if has never fired. for those who think all gun owners are "unsafe, stupid, etc..." need to think next time you are in need of the cops.

  • Phil
    March 2, 2009 5:25 p.m.

    Trust me, the only way that gun fired was due to a jack-ass putting his finger on the trigger when he wasn't supposed to. I carry a Kahr P9 (same exact gun-different caliber), and it's a true double action-only pistol with a 15-20lb trigger pull. The only way that gun will go off is if you deliberately put that amount of pressure on the trigger. In the 1 in 100000000 chance that the pistol did fire by being dropped, and it can be duplicated and documented, this kid will be a VERY rich person by the end of the year. I've investigated numerous "accidental" discharges, and they ALL turned out to be user negligence...i.e. NEGLIGENT discharges!

  • Sid
    Feb. 26, 2009 1:37 p.m.

    Wouldn't have happened with a Glock.

  • Proudly CCW
    Feb. 25, 2009 11:29 a.m.

    I have to agree with Variac et. al. If this guy was carrying a revolver made in 1938 and dropped it, yeah it could go off, but a Kahr?

    As for the deluge of propaganda against CCWs I can only remit a statement that I confess is blatantly plagiarized from another gun forum on the internet. I wish I could take credit for this wisdom but I can't.

    "When seconds mean the difference between life or death, the police are only minutes away".

  • Little Rock Rick
    Feb. 14, 2009 12:50 p.m.

    Have you ever tried Carl's Jr. gut bombs? I'm surprised there's an intact porcelein bowl left in the place!

    Hey, has anyone thought of substituting toilet bowls for those expensive clay pigeons they have at the range? Just about every restaurant has AT LEAST 6-8 "targets" in the men's room! Might be fun to do a little shooting after dinner!

  • Variac
    Feb. 11, 2009 2:27 p.m.

    As an active firearms enthusiast with a knowledge of semi-auto handguns, I seriously find it hard to believe a KAHR pistol could fire a round after being dropped, the trigger and striker mechanism aren't capable of firing if the double action trigger is not pulled. This story is very suspicious.

  • Bean
    Feb. 8, 2009 10:51 a.m.

    So according to my research (having never actually held the kahr P40) it is a double action gun, so even if it had been dropped the hammer wouldn't have been back, so it couldn't have been fired. I have experience with the kel-tec P3AT which is a similar gun. This gun is designed to be a long, hard trigger pull as the "safety" so it doesn't actually have a safety switch. I still don't see how this particular gun could have fired while dropped, I believe that even with a round chambered this gun is still double action because that is it's so called safety. (at least this is how it is with the kel-tec)

  • Mike Heath
    Feb. 8, 2009 9:53 a.m.

    Agree that quality guns like this one are drop proof as designed, and that the story is incomplete. Also amazed once again at the invective and hateful tone of people who have never survived or been exposed to deadly violence, and don't know what they are talking about. Truly, they are the ones who are frightening.

  • carl
    Feb. 5, 2009 7:37 a.m.

    "Having a concealed carry permit is one thing. Having a round chambered and ready to fire in the restroom of a fast food joint is unacceptable. I support the NRA and the right to carry, but come on, this guy could of killed somebody due to his carelessness. Who needs to have a round chambered and ready to fire???"

    Answer ... anyone who carries for self-defense. Having to chamber a round can easily cost you your life when attacked. As was stated, the cops carry with a round chambered for the same reason.

    The reality is that well over 2 million defensive handgun uses occur in this country each year. The number of accidental shootings pales in comparison to the number of lives saved by defensive use of handguns by law-abiding citizens who legally carry.
    In fact, the police are seldom present when innocents are attacked by violent criminals and those would-be victims need to be responsible for protecting themselves. The police, according to many court rulings are under no obligation to protect you. The invariably arrive after the fact and end up drawing a chalk outline around the victim's body. Not a desirable outcome.

  • CaputLapidis
    Feb. 3, 2009 1:19 p.m.

    Dave writes

    "Has he never heard of the safety catch? If this guy is so irresponsible as to allow an accident like this to happen, his concealed weapon permit should be revoked."

    DAO pistols like the Kahr do not have "safety catches" or any externally mounted, mechanical positive safety device. They do have striker blocks and other safety features, however.

  • CaputLapidis
    Feb. 3, 2009 1:14 p.m.

    I have drop tested Kahr PM40s several times in a facility designed for such tests and they have NEVER discharged except when the trigger is pulled. Glocks have never accidentally discharged, either. Not true of one or two other makes.

  • Prop
    Jan. 29, 2009 1:14 p.m.

    I think this story could most certainly be used in supporting an anti-gun campaign. Even though no one was seriously hurt and the man had the gun legally things could have been a lot worse.

  • Stinky
    Jan. 28, 2009 11:47 a.m.

    I hope they nailed the jerk to the wall. There's no such thing as an accident with a gun. Concealed Carry Licenses are all about taking responsibility for your safety and NEVER even by negligence, endangering your neighbors.

    And a Kahr doesn't go off on impact. He's lying about that. He fumbled the re-holster or was playing with the darned thing. He needs to lose his license for either one.

  • Idaho Guy
    Jan. 27, 2009 11:59 a.m.

    Gun problems occure most often with guns not properly secured (gunsafe - proper holster). A $600.00 firearm and a $20.00 holster does not cut it. Alot of problems could be solved by a quality gunsafe and a quility holster. The gun should have never ben allowed to fall. Enough on the subject.

  • To: Anonymous, Jan 17th
    Jan. 26, 2009 2:09 p.m.

    Im still not understanding why we are weirdos. We are law abiding people just like any other person. Because we want to protect ourselves and our families we are considered weird. I will never understand that one. You are the U.S. citizen that wants everything given to to them. The same person who is ready to sue another citizen because the coffee was hot and they didn't know. This country is coming apart at the seams because of people like you who will just sit and watch this country waste away and blame everybody else. I hope for your sake you don't have a situation where you wish you had a firearm to protect yourself or your family.

  • Guns do NOT kill people
    Jan. 23, 2009 7:02 p.m.

    I always carry 'Condition 1'. Carrying without a round in the chamber is as good as leaving your weapon at home. Do you think a mugger will wait for you to draw, remove safety, rack slide, and fire?

    IF the weapon has an external safety, I will leave it Condition 1, but never 'red'. Safety off. However my favorite concealed weapons have no manual safety, and are always Condition 1. If someone is trying to kill me or my family, I draw + pull trigger. Making it anymore complicated than that is asking for trouble.

    Also, most modern autoloaders have a Drop Safety, including Kahrs. I highly doubt this happened as reported in the story. Barring a defective weapon, the firing pin should be stationary, even during a dramatic drop, until the trigger is pulled.

  • Gun Nut Logic
    Jan. 22, 2009 12:06 p.m.

    Of course guns don't go off when you drop them!

    Guns are subject to the most rigorous consumer product safety standards imagina...

    ...oh wait...

    ...that's right...

    ...guns are basically the only consumer product in America NOT regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

    Thanks NRA!

  • KahrGirl
    Jan. 22, 2009 10:10 a.m.

    I've read all the comments, and just like any topic, everyone has an opinion. I carry a Kahr PM9 and have a CHL in the state of Texas. This story has some humor to it due to the man being in a restroom, but I'm thankful that nobody was seriously hurt. Truth is this young man made a mistake and he was not honest with the police about what happened. The Kahr will only fire if the trigger is intentionally pulled. The design features an internal striker block and Kahr's have passed every drop test mandated on them. A Kahr is a safe firearm to carry for personal defense. I'm shocked the police took his word on what happened and blamed the hardware over user error. In most cases of accidental discharges, the error is human, not hardware.

  • protect your rights
    Jan. 21, 2009 1:32 p.m.

    CCW holders need to protect us from marauding loons like "what is my political affiliation." Maybe next we should take away your right to make stupid statements.

  • FirearmsInstructor
    Jan. 19, 2009 8:00 p.m.

    Ok first off, every state in the union has firearm carring citizens, legal or not is another story, how about cops being tased or shot by their partner, or even better a chief shooting himself last year. This kind of thing happens in every state, every day. It's old news, how about the stories of citizens who carry legally, doing good and preventing a crime. Don't hear anything negative about that do we!

  • Alan T.
    Jan. 19, 2009 7:34 p.m.

    Owners of firearms have a great responsibility, and those who carry them concealed have even greater responsibility. One of those people making a serious mistake doesn't make it wrong, crazy, or paranoid for the rest of us to do so responsibly. For some, the act of going about in society being completely unarmed, and thus disadvantaged when it comes to preventing violent crime, is just as if not more irresponsible. I don't consider policeman to be hired henchmen that I pay to do the rough and dirty work - preventing crime and promoting lawful behavior is a burden which belongs to every responsible citizen; policeman are here to help, and just spend more time at it than the rest of us do. The man whose weapon discharged in the restaurant was *lucky* that the toilet and his arm were the only real casualties - but it defies logic to try to make this mean that firearms are bad, and concealed weapon permit holders are paranoid vigilantes, etc. Making a claim like that says more about *you* than the subject of your rant.

  • Janice
    Jan. 19, 2009 3:46 p.m.

    Re: Still against concealed carrying

    You said: should be required to carry it VISIBLY. Never hidden.

    UMMM, That would not be too brilliant, because then it would make it easy for some crazed, wacko nut to confiscate the gun from you.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 19, 2009 9:59 a.m.

    I heard of blowing up the toilet! but this is a little to literal for me.

  • To Anonymous 5:55
    Jan. 19, 2009 6:44 a.m.

    I know a number of very sane and intelligent people who have concealed carry permits, some of them pillars of the community (not in Utah - if that matters to some). Most don't carry regularly, only in circumstances when it makes sense.

    You obviously have a tendency to jump to conclusions, have an irrational fear of guns, and have a vivid imagination of the unlikely.

    You scare me more than the man in the story. Maybe you need an evaluation?

  • Still against concealed carrying
    Jan. 19, 2009 6:10 a.m.

    I'd rather that nobody had to feel the need to carry a gun around. But since people apparently do, I say again that anybody who is going to carry a gun should be required to carry it VISIBLY. Never hidden.

    I have a healthy fear of guns -- because I do know how to use them safely, and also how easy it is for deadly accidents to happen. This guy is lucky he isn't dead.

    If people are going to be carrying guns around, I say it should be a requirement that the gun be visible, not concealed.

  • Ramsees
    Jan. 18, 2009 8:30 p.m.

    I find it interesting that so many people on this thread are saying that the man shouldn't of had a round chambered in the gun. Of course there is a round in the gun. If your being assaulted you aren't just going to be able to say "hold on just a second I need to load my gun so I can protect myself." NO that ain't going to work If the gun went off there must have been a mechanical mistake. Nobody was hurt anyways so there is no reason to make a big deal.

  • Donna
    Jan. 18, 2009 12:32 p.m.

    Against concealed carrying.

    Well, I hope you are never in a situation where you wished you had a gun to protect your loved ones from a crazed killer, or a mad dog. Who knows what the future may bring. Our world is not as safe as you may think. If a gun is handled properly than it can be a good thing. You need to get over your personal fear. Perhaps take a gun class. Learn the safety side of owning a gun. Don't make judgments of one person who had an accident.

  • Theenaray
    Jan. 18, 2009 12:18 p.m.

    You never know when a rogue toilet is going to attack. Luckily, this man was prepared.

  • Dave
    Jan. 18, 2009 10:43 a.m.

    Has he never heard of the safety catch? If this guy is so irresponsible as to allow an accident like this to happen, his concealed weapon permit should be revoked.

  • Against concealed carrying
    Jan. 18, 2009 2:00 a.m.

    There should be no such thing as a concealed weapons permit. Carrying a concealed firearm needs to be a one-way ticket to jail.

    On the other hand, I do think that since firearms are legal and keeping and carrying is constitutionally protected, anyone who carries one in public should do so FULLY TRAINED, with a permit, and with the weapon visible.

    If anybody besides law enforcement is going to be allowed to carry guns, I'd rather *know* who has one than have a bunch of people running around with weapons hidden in their pants and purses.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 17, 2009 11:18 p.m.

    I used a hammer and nail to chip off built up calcium deposits on our toilet...not a good idea...a small hole developed and husband had to replace toilet. And I'm not from Utah. Had a good laugh from this story anyway.

  • Beverly
    Jan. 17, 2009 11:05 p.m.

    Re-- anonymous,
    It looks like you are pretty whacked yourself to make a judgment of someone you do not know. Maybe you need to check yourself in and get off the streets.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 17, 2009 5:55 p.m.

    These concealed carry wierdos are filled with mental illness. I would be my bottom dollar this guy chickened out at the last minute when trying to commit suicide then had a lot of explaining to do about how the toilet got shot. This dude needs a full psychiatric evaluation as do all concealed carry wierdos!

  • Broken Up
    Jan. 17, 2009 8:55 a.m.

    To: too long 6:36 - If you will notice this story comes up under the "Most commented" section, which indicates the story still has "legs."

    Unless you are mayor of centerville or town historian why don't you let this story die a peaceful death, on it's own, unlike that poor, defenseless toilet at Carl.....Jr's.....I'm sorry for crying.

  • too long
    Jan. 17, 2009 6:36 a.m.

    This story has been a headline of Davis County news for three days. Could you please just move on? There has got to be more news out there!!

  • BuggerHook
    Jan. 17, 2009 5:37 a.m.

    The guy probably tried to catch the gun as it was falling and pulled the trigger. There's no way it would go off by striking the ground.

  • adam
    Jan. 16, 2009 7:22 p.m.

    There is no way that any gun will ever go off if you follow one simple rule, don't put your finger on the trigger! It it to bad that this person has to give the concealed weapon permit holders a bad rep, so please my fellow C.W.P. holders lets be responsible with our right to carry.

    Dude quit fondling your tool in a public place anyway... only take it out at home to play with it.

  • Criminal
    Jan. 16, 2009 4:21 p.m.

    This man should be locked away for a long time, he is a danger to everyone!

  • Munch
    Jan. 16, 2009 3:33 p.m.

    Wow! This mental midget cooked up QUITE the "story" to tell the POleece how he came to kill the commode.
    I for one do not believe his "story". Having worn a handgun professionally for many years, and having driven a patrol car for same amopunt of time, I KNOW that he pulled the trigger. I've told hundreds of felons to "drop the gun" they did and NONE "accidentally went off". If they had, then I would hold a record for the most Felons shot.(so would a lot of other peace officers)
    I'm "guessing" he cheaped out on spending on a holster(if he even HAD a holster), and when he dropped "trou" the "Ka-boom" happened. This is a case of negligence not accidental "mishandling. I for one think his carry permit should be withheld from him for awhile, so he can re-visit appropriate firearms handling procedures.
    Again, in my professional experience in another state far larger in population than Utah, I've had hundreds of felons intentionally drop their loaded pistols and revolvers and NOT ONE "went off".
    Charley-the-Commode-Killer had better learn how to handle his pistol, next time he might give himself a radical vasectomy.

  • WideStance
    Jan. 16, 2009 3:01 p.m.

    I feel vindicated reading about this incident. Now people may believe me and my explanations for a certain incident in a men's room. I this gentleman had been using a "wide stance" as I do. This whole unfortunate incident might have been avoided.

    L. Craig

  • Alex Trebek
    Jan. 16, 2009 12:58 p.m.

    Sounds fishy. From what I gathered from all of you "experts" it's not likely his gun would've gone off from a 3 foot drop. Maybe he was going to rob the place and accidentally fired off a round into the toilet. I hope he flushed first, because that mess would've been yucky...

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 16, 2009 12:41 p.m.

    the people calling the guy an idiot for having a round loaded in the chamber are idiots. so when the guy needs his gun because his life is in danger, is he going to stop the criminal and ask if he'll wait to let him chamber a round before attacking? if you carry a gun for protection, it has to be ready instantly. you may not have time to chamber a round.

  • MikeTheWaiterDotCom
    Jan. 15, 2009 8:40 p.m.

    let me get this right ... as for the female employee who was shaken and panicked and experiencing chest pains ... would that qualify as an on the job accident??? lol
    peace, mTw

  • I'm coming to get you
    Jan. 15, 2009 7:47 p.m.

    I'm sure this guy is now having bad toilet nightmares. NO, NO! NO! NO! I didn't mean to shoot you!

    Toilet Ghosts are the worst. Watch for the haunting of the over flowing toilet bowl, he's coming to get you.

  • Accidents happen
    Jan. 15, 2009 6:47 p.m.

    My advice: Quit taking pot-shots at the poor guy. Pot...shots.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 15, 2009 5:39 p.m.

    It must have been one of those low flow toilets...

  • @ Howdy
    Jan. 15, 2009 5:15 p.m.

    Firearms with striker blocks will not and can not fire with out having the trigger pulled. This idiot had the firearm fall from his holster and tried to grab for it as it fell. By doing this he put his booger hook on the bang switch. Look at the mechanics of the firearm in question and you will see it can only be fired if the trigger is pulled.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 15, 2009 5:10 p.m.

    "2009 Darwin Award"

    Sorry, friend, you must die in the process of being stupid to win the Darwin award. The toilet's untimely death doesn't count.

  • Eau de Toilet
    Jan. 15, 2009 4:43 p.m.

    I believe in our right to have weapons, but I dont think that means wear one. People will be talking about the man who shot a toilet and lived for a long time. It will probably be a story shot round the world in an email.

    Did you hear about the man who was hunting and after several hours of no luck, decided to see how much fun it would be to shoot down a power line. After shooting the power line down he wondered how much fun it would be to urinate on the downed power line. Unfortunately for the man urinating on the power line, the circuit breaker failed leaving the power line hot Needless to say, he fried his you know what. Luckily, the man lived. Unfortunately for the power company, the man sued them for a failed circuit breaker and damages to his person.

    As with the gentleman who blew away the toilet bowl, on the surface it is comical and laughable, but the reality is, someone could get hurt. Just because you have a license to wear a concealed weapon, doesnt mean you should. Consider leaving it at home.

  • Teeth
    Jan. 15, 2009 3:44 p.m.

    Did he use a toilet seat cover? Those public toilets seats can be kind of sticky and that could possible have contributed to this unfortunate accident.

  • Funny man
    Jan. 15, 2009 2:27 p.m.

    What a wonderful story. I truly impressed with this kid.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 15, 2009 1:08 p.m.

    I nominate this man for the 2009 Darwin award.

  • Tidbits of gun wisdom
    Jan. 15, 2009 12:19 p.m.

    This unfortunate man not withstanding...

    I carry a gun because they don't make holsters for cops.

    When seconds count, the cops are minutes away.

    My right to self defense is not subject to silly peoples opinions to the contrary.

    Modern firearms DO NOT "go off" when dropped. It's one of those designs made mandatory by common sense in the market. Like the man says: " keep yer booger-picker off the bang switch!"

  • Schindler's List
    Jan. 15, 2009 11:38 a.m.

    I am surprised you haven't had any letters of complaint from the JDL; showing a gas chamber and all.

  • Jennifer
    Jan. 15, 2009 11:25 a.m.

    RE: Gun Toter

    You should not even carry a gun. Of course, you must be kidding all of us on here? Otherwise, you are an unsafe person, and will probably end up getting your gun confiscated by the police.

    I just love the toilet bowl picture on Des/News. This means one less bowl in the world that needs cleaning.... hurray!

  • Gun toter
    Jan. 15, 2009 11:10 a.m.

    This is the very reason why I don't have a concealed carry permit. I just carry a 12-gauge over and under with me wherever I go in plain view. As I get older, however, sometimes I forget where I left it.
    Left it in the Bishop's office last Sunday....

  • Junkyard dog
    Jan. 15, 2009 11:08 a.m.

    Re: CW9Owner...Great comment! You are absolutely correct.

  • CO Coug
    Jan. 15, 2009 11:07 a.m.

    Luckily the toilet was wearing it's ceramic plates inside of it's body armor.

  • CW9 Owner
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:59 a.m.

    Kahr's have a built in safety that will not allow the gun to fire unless the trigger is pulled about half way. I have a feeling that he was sitting on the can, playing with his "gun" and carelessly shot a round.

    Unfortunately, the only people that will know this for sure are him and the poor toilet that he sent to junkyard.

  • CK
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:49 a.m.

    Re: goforit,

    Many people own guns and have not gone through what you and your family have gone through. It's sad that your family has gone through so much, and I'm very sorry for that.

    I knew high school kids who committed suicide on drugs. It seems to me that there were more people when I was growing up who committed suicide with drugs rather then with a gun. I know it happens with guns, but drugs are just as bad as guns if not worse.

  • JIm
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:36 a.m.

    If you think carrying with an empty chamber is the normal thing to do, you've been watching too much television. On tv and in the movies, they love to show the Jack Bauer types racking the slide, for effect. In real life, semiauto handguns are designed to be carried with a round in the chamber.

    That Kahr is designed to be dropped from a building and not fire. There's no way it just went off when dropped; it's physically impossible unless the owner modified the internal mechanism of the gun. The firing pin is blocked by a piece of steel that only moves out of the way when the trigger is pulled. Any inertial force that could cause the firing pin block to move would have to occur at a different angle from any inertial force that could cause the firing pin to strike the primer. And Kahr firearms have heavy, long trigger pulls--they require a quite deliberate pull of the trigger.

    My guess: either he was playing with the gun in the stall and pulled the trigger, or it did fall and as it fell he tried to grab it in mid-air, pulling the trigger in the process.

  • BG
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:29 a.m.

    Take it easy on him, he's just a fall guy for Dick Cheney! It's okay, right-wing folks - a little humor, goes a long way!

  • The Stall has ears
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:29 a.m.

    The toilets last words were......gurgle!

  • toilet phob
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:24 a.m.

    Consealing toilets is not without certain hazards!

  • Wild Bill
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:20 a.m.

    Enough toilet talk. This man is okay and that is all that matters. They also have good prices on toilets right now at home depot.

  • goforit
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:20 a.m.

    to WHAT?!? | 3:56 p.m. Jan. 14, 2009

    FYI, I grew up in the country around guns, attended hunting/ gun safety courses, have gone hunting, had a grandfather who was a police office and life member of the NRA. All the being said, I have personally know one friend who was accidentally shot by another. I have witnessed a teenage male "friend" get his father's gun and put one in the chamber, spin it and point it at another kid, and pull the trigger (to this day we are not sure if he know the chamber that clicked was empty). I have seen bulletts go through the neighbor's barn roof. I have had two classmates and the father of another commit suicide with a gun. I have had a loaded gun pointed at me (by a teenage "friend", his father's gun), and back in the 50's one day when my grandfather came home from work he was taking his gun out of the holster and accidentally shot himself in the leg (his fellow officers always gave him grief and the rumor going arond was that my grandmother shot him). Just telling you my experiences that formed my opnions. Peace

  • to be or not to be
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:18 a.m.

    All toilets thinking of committing a grime should think twice!

  • 0802
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:10 a.m.

    This man should lose his permit and permanently be prevented from getting it back. We need to send a message to every concealed carry holder out there that those of us who are responsible won't have our right infringed on because of idiots like this. A modern firearm doesn't go off when dropped! They only go off when you pull the trigger!!!!

  • still laughing
    Jan. 15, 2009 10:07 a.m.

    Thar she blows!

  • Drop Test
    Jan. 15, 2009 9:43 a.m.

    Apparently he is not familiar with the mechanical safeties of the Khar pistol. I doesnt fire if you dropped on its barrel or backside, you have to pull the trigger. There is a good possibility that he was playing with it and accidentally discharged the weapon. Keep your finger off the trigger and be a responsible gun owner.

  • Wasting Time
    Jan. 15, 2009 9:37 a.m.

    Someone must have left the toilet seat up!!

  • American Standardme
    Jan. 15, 2009 9:34 a.m.

    The guy was just lucky it was a toilet and not a bidet. Those things could shoot back.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 15, 2009 9:31 a.m.

    Re- Watch out,
    You sound like a person who likes to create chaos.... Calm down!

    I'm happy this young man is ok too, and did not hurt himself or anyone else.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 15, 2009 9:32 a.m.

    This is not a question about concealed carry or carrying a loaded weapon. The question is "accidental" or unintended discharge. The ONLY way a Kahr P40 will discharge is to pull the trigger! You can drop that gun all day long and it will not fire. There is more to the story (and the excuse given) than was conveyed.

    Keep your finger off of the trigger if you don't want a gun to discharge! This man needs more training.

  • Jay
    Jan. 15, 2009 9:24 a.m.

    The lady's chest pains probably had more to do with the six dollar burgar she just pounded than the gun going off!

  • Very Humorous
    Jan. 15, 2009 9:11 a.m.

    This is way too funny!!!!! I Loved it..... It's also good that he and others were not hurt.

  • Watch out
    Jan. 15, 2009 9:09 a.m.

    Remember, Utah law allows concealed weapons in your child's elementary school, too. Of course, if a "legal" carrier accidently kills a six year old while using the john at school, law enforcement will pass it off as "just one of those things."

  • 0802
    Jan. 15, 2009 8:26 a.m.

    It seems that many of you have some strange idea that people who choose to carry a concealed firearm lack self esteem or are compensating for something. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most are average people who you would never suspect as having a firearm on them. It's very likely that someone you know well at work, school, or in your neighborhood is legally armed.

  • Wyoming Native
    Jan. 15, 2009 8:22 a.m.

    Now that Dick Cheney is retired this guy should look him up and go hunting together...POT SHOT is what it sound like

  • Kenneth in Texas
    Jan. 15, 2009 8:10 a.m.

    re: "Only in Utah?" and "JT":

    I agree! Stories like this can happen in any state allowing concealed weapons to be carried in public places. In those states or countries where such weapon possession is prohibited, such things can still happen to the criminals that don't care about those "no gun" laws.

    No crime was apparently committed. Perhaps some foolishness in lack of properly holstering the gun, but that's no crime. Just be glad only the toilet caught the stray bullet. It's much easier to replace the toilet than a human life.

  • Laughing Loud
    Jan. 15, 2009 7:55 a.m.

    Best DNews comments ever:

    "sounds like a crap shoot."

    "Bet the urinal was shaken up."

    "Guns Don't Kill People...Toilets do."


  • Whoa Nellie
    Jan. 15, 2009 7:45 a.m.

    The first paragraph of this article says it all. Now that's funny. And a big Amen to Fodder for late night. Some of the commenters on DNews articles are great examples of grade school dropouts. What is really scary though are the many who profess to have attended college or graduated from some university but still cannot spell. Start out by learning the difference between the word "your" and "you're" then move on to "there" and "their" and know when to use these words. Once you've accomplished that task finish your education by learning the correct usage of the words "then" and "than" and when to use either one. Then come back and post your comments.

    Final shot: The two best signs I've seen concerning urinating were: 1) In the men's restroom of a restaurant, "We aim to please. You aim too, please." 2) At a public swimming pool, "We don't swim in your toilet so please don't pee in our pool."

  • Flush
    Jan. 15, 2009 7:23 a.m.

    I just have one question...did he get his business flushed before he blew the bowl apart or did more than porcelain splash all over him???

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 15, 2009 7:10 a.m.

    What's with the obsession to carry a gun? The chances of ever needing it are absolutely remote. Logic and reality defy the irrational, paranoid desire to pack heat to proctect oneself. Or is it an expression of machoism or sexual inadequacy?

  • Toilet Seat is Okay
    Jan. 15, 2009 6:20 a.m.

    From the picture the toilet seat appears to be in good shape. Let us hope they use it on the next toilet they put in. They will have to put a disclaimer up so that everyone using the restroom will know that the toilet seat was involved in a shooting. Was it a random act? Or was it planned out to go down that way? Ponder those questions for a while.
    While gun safety is not a laughing matter, this story is. Be safe with your guns and know that they are deadly weapons and should not be carried lightly.

  • liberal Larry
    Jan. 15, 2009 6:19 a.m.

    Why didn't DNews list the name of this rocket scientist, and include his picture?

  • bang
    Jan. 15, 2009 6:19 a.m.

    Sounds like a crap shoot to me...

  • A question
    Jan. 15, 2009 6:15 a.m.

    Would he have to pay "restitution" for the damage in the rest room ? Plumbing repair is expensive. What a bummer for Carl's Jr.

  • krueschhoff
    Jan. 15, 2009 6:12 a.m.

    He shot the toilet and the toilet shot back. I think we will see a lot more of this - and it won't just be toilets.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 15, 2009 6:00 a.m.

    Guns don't kill people, swimming pools do!

  • Fodder for late night
    Jan. 15, 2009 5:52 a.m.

    I had many big laughs this morning reading the comments to this article. I would like to ask PM9 owner what does "antecedently" mean ? Also, to His own falt: What does "falt" spell? I do like your use (or misuse) when you said , "That is not the "hole" story . It was a great pun even if you don't know the difference between "hole" and "whole".
    Hopefully some of you will spent more time using the correct (or correctly spelled ) word. Maybe Utah needs to spend more money on "spelling" education !

  • Special mention
    Jan. 15, 2009 5:48 a.m.

    I have taken the time to read most of these comments (except for the really serious guys are boring).

    I would like to offer two awards:

    First, Parry Stallsis | 7:30 p.m.: "Dude, if you don't have one locked and loaded, what are you doing in the restroom?"

    Insightful...gets right to the bottom of this story.

    Second, Anonymous | 10:25 p.m.: "You ever heard of Batman? Superman? Checkmate!"

    Outstanding rebuttal!

    Thanks for the excuse to waste my time.

  • Ian
    Jan. 15, 2009 5:35 a.m.

    It's not guns that hurt people; it's toilets.

  • SJ Bobkins
    Jan. 15, 2009 3:02 a.m.

    Now this is funny. What an idiot, he needs a gun to protect himself from that flushing thing. I have a theory that gun freaks are compensating for an inadequate certain part of a man's body. Stats prove that the more guns the public has the more people are killed and maimed. That includes the "brave" concealed gun owners who only "have" to prove that they aren't insane or a felon in order to carry loaded firearms capable of destroying human life. That makes real sense doesn't it?

  • Observer
    Jan. 15, 2009 2:59 a.m.

    I don't believe the gun went off because of hitting the floor. I'm guessing he may have been playing with his gun when it went off.

  • On The Tonight Show
    Jan. 15, 2009 1:57 a.m.

    This one is definitely gonna end up on Jay Leno or nominated for a darwin

  • 0802
    Jan. 15, 2009 1:31 a.m.

    People like this give the rest of the concealed carry world a bad name. I wish these idiot's would be honest and just admit they were mishandling their firearm. The "woops I dropped it" is a bunch of garbage and I am amazed that the police who are assumed by the masses of ignorant non gun owners to be "experts" in firearms would support such a claim.

    I believe every law abiding citizen has the right to carry a firearm if they desire but please if you don't know how to handle it then DON'T CARRY IT!

  • mark
    Jan. 15, 2009 1:13 a.m.

    May your family go hundreds of more years without an accidental shooting. (of course I would like to know how you know what has happened in your family in "hundreds of years" as well as how you know your family has owned guns for "hundreds of years.")
    My family has not been so lucky. I have lost two family members to gun accidents. One killed on a hunting trip, another (child) killed by a stranger on a hunting trip. Both accidents.
    I have also lost two friends to suicide using handguns.
    I have also had guns pulled and aimed at me twice.

  • mark
    Jan. 15, 2009 12:52 a.m.

    Yes, Rick, that is an absurd point of view. Absurd on so many levels. Maybe it is you that needs to do a little more studying of history. You also need practice with critical thinking.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 15, 2009 12:09 a.m.

    This is just plain stupid!!!

  • Rest of the Story??
    Jan. 14, 2009 11:04 p.m.

    No one has explained the toilet's role in all of this. Was the man shooting in self-defense? Did the toilet provoke him in some way? What was his relationship with the toilet? Were there other toilets involved? So many unanswered questions...

  • WHO?
    Jan. 14, 2009 11:06 p.m.

    I thought reporters all learned the Who, what, why, where, and when? We got everything but the WHO?

  • The Truth
    Jan. 14, 2009 10:44 p.m.

    To Josh..., Do more homework on that statistic. Mr. Kellermann retracted that bogus stat. What makes a bunch of doctors the experts in gun statistics? Because they have seen a gunshot wound? You are just scared of guns because see too many movies where guns are used by bad guys. My research shows that you are 247 times more likely to die from a cell phone in a car then not having a cell phone in a car.

    247 times !!!

    (I'm just as qualified as a bunch of doctors because I drive the freeway 50 miles a day)

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 14, 2009 10:25 p.m.

    To point proven 10:12 "Show me some articles about a violent crime being prevented by some random dude on the streets."

    You ever heard of Batman? Superman?



  • To Josh--point proven
    Jan. 14, 2009 10:12 p.m.

    You have proven a point with your post listing all the shootings on Fox news today......namely, that owning a gun places you and your family at MUCH more risk of being injured or killed than not owning one.

    Research has shown that a gun kept in the home is 43 TIMES MORE LIKELY to kill a member of the household, or friend, than an intruder.(Arthur Kellermann and Donald Reay. "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearm Related Deaths in the Home." The New England Journal of Medicine, vol. 314, no. 24, June 1986, pp. 1557-60.) The use of a firearm to resist a violent assault actually increases the victim's risk of injury and death(FE Zimring, Firearms, violence, and public policy, Scientific American, vol. 265, 1991, p. 48).

    This incident proves that people walking around with guns are a hazard and protect NO ONE!!!

    Show me some articles about a violent crime being prevented by some random dude on the streets.

    43 times more likely!!!!

    43 times!!

  • The Magic Bullet
    Jan. 14, 2009 9:06 p.m.

    To missing facts 7:47 - Ease up on the Mt. Dew, you've been watching too much CSI. This is the story of a demolished toilet not the investigation of the Kennedy assassination.

    "The shot came from over there" pointing to the grassy knoll.

  • Hee hee
    Jan. 14, 2009 7:47 p.m.

    Wow, that's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.

  • missing facts
    Jan. 14, 2009 7:44 p.m.

    I keep looking at the picture of the shattered bowl and wonder why there doesn't appear to be any water on the floor.

    Where is the slug? What was the trajectory? My guess is they will find it going toward the floor not coming up from the floor.

  • @Pam
    Jan. 14, 2009 7:41 p.m.

    I am not a goose. I doubt any of the posters on here are geese. If they are, well that would be a story!

  • IBS
    Jan. 14, 2009 7:30 p.m.

    I smell a cover up. Have you ever eaten two Double Guacamole Bacon Burgers for breakfast? Well I have and it's not pretty. I think the gun is being framed. My guess is some other form of weaponry caused the bowl to blow.

  • Parry Stallsis
    Jan. 14, 2009 7:30 p.m.

    To: What a Moron 10:30 - "Having a round chambered and ready to fire in the restroom of a fast food joint is unacceptable. Who needs to have a round chambered and ready to fire???"

    Dude, if you don't have one locked and loaded, what are you doing in the restroom?

  • Too many know it all's here
    Jan. 14, 2009 7:30 p.m.

    I continue to be amazed at how many uninformed experts out there. If you don't what your talking about just keep your mouth shut, it will help look smarter than you really are. Concealed carry with a round in the chamber is a safe and very acceptable thing. Yes a good holster needs to be used and adequate training is needed. To those that know nothing about what they are talking about (quite a few here), please keep quiet or get some real knowledge before spouting off.
    Without all the facts, which we don't have no one can blame anyone. It could be negligence, a defective firearm or just a plan accident. Were all human.

  • To Chamber or NOT
    Jan. 14, 2009 7:21 p.m.

    If you have a handgun WITHOUT a grip safety and you have it holstered and chambered and a strap from your coat works it's way into the trigger area and you pull on your coat then BANG !!! (this really happened to a police officer with a Glock on a range, only it was a strap from his vest)

    So, if you DON'T have a grip safety then DON'T have the thing chambered.

  • At least
    Jan. 14, 2009 7:09 p.m.

    we now know one way to bullet plunge the toilet.....LOL!!

  • Broken toilet
    Jan. 14, 2009 5:41 p.m.

    He's lucky he didn't shoot something more personal off.

  • Running bear
    Jan. 14, 2009 5:30 p.m.

    Well, heck sakes, this is Utah--- so give the guy a break. It's not like he was trying to kill anyone.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 14, 2009 5:28 p.m.

    It says in the story that he had a permit and no charges are being filed.

  • Diane
    Jan. 14, 2009 4:50 p.m.

    People who have gun permits for a concealed weapon often carry a gun with them, and not intending to use the gun unless to protect themselves and their family.

    This guy is in a lot of trouble if he did not have a concealed license for his gun.

  • Thinning of the herd
    Jan. 14, 2009 4:36 p.m.

    Too bad he didn't kill himself.

    I hope he is not breeding.

  • Argument
    Jan. 14, 2009 4:30 p.m.

    Is this really the place to put arguments on here? I mean, come on! Sure, we can argue about moral rights, the latest football game and such, but over a man shooting a TOILET? Come on! It gave me a good laugh and everybody else should laugh too. It is no reason to start an argument.

  • The Truth
    Jan. 14, 2009 4:28 p.m.

    Hey goforit. Do some real unbiased research before you spout statistics that have been found to be lies over and over. YOU ARE TOTALLY 100% WRONG !!! Lookup real statistics on the Bureau of Justice web site.

  • Learning is good
    Jan. 14, 2009 4:27 p.m.

    If you don't know how to use a gun then shut-up! Even Boy scouts are taught how to use a gun correctly. Our son helped clean out a log cabin in the mountains, that was filled with hundreds of rattlesnakes, and he was just a teenager, and he did a very fine job in getting rid of the snakes as well, so that no one was bitten. I think people need to learn more about guns so they are not so afraid of them.

  • Bill from South Dakota
    Jan. 14, 2009 4:26 p.m.

    We need to stop feeding the trolls! Concealed carry was good, gun was decent, sounds like the problem was the holster. Spend a little green and get some good leather for your piece!

  • EM
    Jan. 14, 2009 4:13 p.m.

    It gives a whole new meaning to the word "schrapnel" Too funny.

  • suzyk
    Jan. 14, 2009 4:12 p.m.

    To "Brian" perfectly stated.

  • WHAT?!?
    Jan. 14, 2009 3:56 p.m.

    ..... yeah right!

    YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG! Our family have always had MANY guns in our home for 'MANY GENERATIONS'. My Dad's family use to feed the family by going deer hunting. They no longer hunt for food because we have meat stores nowadays, but my family still own many guns. It's our families tradition to have and own guns. AND may I say, NOT ONCE, IN HUNDREDS OF YEARS, HAS THERE EVER BEEN A ACCIDENTAL SHOOTING IN OUR FAMILY. However, you probably know NOTHING ABOUT GUNS. Those people who buy guns and don't know what they are doing with them afterwords, and have NO TRAINING, are the ones who accidentally shoot themselves and kill others. I agree, GO to Gun training classes!

  • Pants on fire
    Jan. 14, 2009 3:27 p.m.

    I don't buy this story at all.

    Drops out of is olster and goes off.

    Yeah! Right!

    Now sell me some swamp land....

  • WHINNERS.....
    Jan. 14, 2009 3:22 p.m.

    OH, STOP! you wimpy fatalist out there--GET A FLIPPIN GRIP! This happens to be a stupid guy who had a stupid accident with his gun, this sort of stuff doesn't happen everyday. Maybe this guy needs to go back to gun school or something, so that he will learn how to be a bit more careful.

    My advise to all you fatalist on this post is probably to do the same thing-- GO TO GUN SCHOOL!

  • Lucky it was just the toilet
    Jan. 14, 2009 3:13 p.m.

    If that bullet had gone through a wall, it's likely that someone would have been hit.

    Why isn't this person's name and picture being published?

  • goforit
    Jan. 14, 2009 3:13 p.m.

    if you introduce a gun into your enviroment you are more likely to have an injury due to an accidnet, your (or the neighbor's) kid shooting one aonther, a suicide, or some kind of family member shooting another family member. statistics show that for ever one time a gun is unsed for abona fide self defense reason there are 120 incidents of acciential shootings, suicides, shooting of another family member, etc. So, as someone who cannot fathom or stand the gun toting mentality, please all of you arm yourselves to the hills, because statistically you will be less in numbers in the future. and, no, i dont say thank you to your twisted fantisies about saving the public (myself included) from the crazed mall shooter), i am more afraid of people like the gut who capped the toliet and if my kid happened to be in that bathroom.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 14, 2009 3:12 p.m.

    Where do you people come from that think giving up guns and making them illegal is going to make things safer? Things are illegal in this country now, but the criminals STILL do them. The fact that I can own a gun makes you knuckleheads safer. If you take away my rights to own or carry a gun, guess what? The criminals will be the only ones with them. It would be a lot easier for a thief to pick the house without a way to defend if he or she knows that a law abiding person cant own a gun. Welcome to the real world. Matthew Miller

  • teddy bear
    Jan. 14, 2009 3:07 p.m.

    Hey,you guys! This is UTAH! Many, many people here own guns. My family have owned guns for many generations. Guns may be used for protection someday. This country is no longer safe and we may need them someday to protect our families. I do not own a gun but respect the weapon, if it is used correctly and wisely, like target practice for fun. Anyway, this guy made a dumb mistake because he wasn't thinking, and probably was sitting on the toilet busy devouring one of those sloppy Carl's Jr hamburgers and had a drip in the wrong place that set his gun off. He will learn from this I'm most certain.

  • Why Rip Utah?
    Jan. 14, 2009 3:04 p.m.

    I've lived in a lot of places. Utah is easily one of the nicer places in this country. Yes, Utahns have their share of mishaps and unusual attitudes. Think you'll find a group of people that don't? Good luck. We have unusual liquor laws, awful drivers, big families, the occassional polygamist, and lots of polite people. Let me tell you from experience: life is a whole lot stranger in many other places.

  • Eastern Observer
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:57 p.m.


  • me
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:51 p.m.

    Why would you have a bullet chambered, what if that had hit a kid in the stall next to him?

  • Vigilant
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:49 p.m.

    Odds of firing if dropped are minuscule. Highly likely that something else happened.

  • Lucky
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:44 p.m.

    Any idiot carrying a loaded gun in his pants is lucky to get off with a cut on the arm. The gun should never have one in the chamber, unless he intends to shoot it. This guy was truly one of the dumbest people alive or there really is more to the story.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:41 p.m.

    Man Charged With Strangling Girlfriend and 4 Children, Motive Sought

  • Stinken thing!
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:37 p.m.

    There has been times in my life that I wished that I had a gun to take out my own toilet bowl.

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:29 p.m.

    I have always thought these concealed carry people were a little strange, but this proves they are stupid, too!

  • Proud to have a CWP
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:29 p.m.

    Gunman Kills Five People at Trolley Square
    February 13th, 2007 @ 8:00am

    The winding hallways of Salt Lake City's Trolley Square became a shooting gallery for an 18-year-old gunman in a trench coat who fired a shotgun randomly at customers, killing five and wounding four before being killed by police,

    Let's all give up our guns, who needs to have a concealed weapon with a round in the chamber. I bet if we ask nicely the criminals will give theirs up too. Every cop gets a CWP glad there was off duty cop using his right to carring a concealed weapon there that night. If you were on the reciving end of a crazy shooter I bet you would like to have someone there with a CWP to protect if needed.

  • Pam
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:25 p.m.

    Geese, accidents happen. It's too bad that we don't live in an accident proof world. Give the guy a break!

  • Howdy
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:22 p.m.

    Any gun can fail and can fire if dropped. No machine is perfect. The likely hood that this is the case with this shooting is very low. Use a good holster and you will be less likely to have your gun fall out. Leave it in the holster unless you have to use it.

  • Glade News
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:06 p.m.

    The Urinal must have been shaken up?

  • Heaven Help Us
    Jan. 14, 2009 2:02 p.m.

    Will these flush-by shootings ever end???

  • Carl
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:44 p.m.

    He sure fired off a load!

  • Steve
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:37 p.m.

    I've never cared much for Carl's Jr.

  • his own falt
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:37 p.m.

    he is not telling the hole story that gun would not have fired if the trigger was not pulled he probably took the gun out of the holster so it did not fall out and was puting it back up and pulled the trigger or got the trigger cought in some pice of clothing and it went off when he was re-holstering end of story

  • Rick
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:35 p.m.

    Take a look at world events over the last several years (including today) and consider the ethnic cleansing, rapes, and other obscene crimes carried out against unarmed 'citizens'. While a military regime may bomb out your village, the 'brave' soldiers wouldn't commit so many war crimes if the potential victims had even so much as a very small caliber manual fireame at their disposal.

    If you think that the reason this (military/political crimes of violence against large groups of people) doesn't happen in the united states of america is because of our advanced governement and high level of intelligence and education and humanity, you are a bit deluded. The reason this hasn't happened (yet) in this country is because the 'citizens' are to some extent armed. As soon as that is no longer the case, the path will be paved for the violent oppression of the people.

    If you think this point of view is absurd then you'd better study your history, ancient and modern.

  • Brian
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:32 p.m.

    Here's a piece of advice for a few of you out there "IT IS BETTER TO REMAIN SILENT AND THOUGHT A FOOL THAN TO SPEAK UP AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT" thanks.

  • Zell
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:30 p.m.

    Does he get to carve a notch in his gun for his first toilet shot? You know in New York or California they empty their gun in someone else instead of the toilet. They must be progressive states.

  • To Josh
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:24 p.m.

    I've checked out FOX NEWS. I stand by my statement. You are paranoid and lack self esteem.

  • Josh
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:20 p.m.

    One more for Common sense says.
    -UHP says freeway shooting was gang related

  • Josh
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:15 p.m.

    Re: Says to Common Sense
    Have you seen whats going on in the world today? Some headlines:
    -Texas Killing Spree Suspect Declared Unfit for Trial
    -Boy, 5, Shot and Killed in Los Angeles
    -Ohio Teen Convicted of Killing Mom Over Video Game
    -New Jersey Church Shooting Suspect Tries to Kill Self
    Now you are telling me, that all that carry guns are
    paranoid and lack in self esteem? Check out FOX NEWS before you call us all paraniod. The world is a crazy place, and incase you havent noticed America is a crazy place.

  • Kahr owner
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:07 p.m.

    It is interesting to see that the ones that know little or nothing about guns are the most outspoken against them and the people who carry them.

  • JT
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:05 p.m.

    I don't get the Utah related comments. What does a handgun falling from a cheap holster have to do with the state in which one resides?
    Let's all try applying a little logic to our commentary.

  • Khar = Quality
    Jan. 14, 2009 1:03 p.m.

    Any quality modern firearm, including Khar's don't "go off" on impact, especially not from 3 feet up!

    The trigger was pulled, the gun did exactly what it is designed to do, functioning perfectly.

    Keep your booger scratcher off the bang switch! ...and never unholster your firearm in a public area unless needed.

  • PM9 owner
    Jan. 14, 2009 12:51 p.m.

    This guy is a lair, there is no way it went off by dropping it. He was playing with it and antecedently pulled the trigger.

  • Justified Shooting?
    Jan. 14, 2009 12:50 p.m.

    The real question here is did he feel that his life was threatened by the toilet? We've all met this unscrupulous "toilets" in fast food establishments. It is about time that one of these menacing devices was taught a lesson.

  • Only in Utah?
    Jan. 14, 2009 12:48 p.m.

    Okay folks, those of you who are claiming this event could happen only in Utah are just revealing your bias and prejudice. I live in Louisiana, and, believe me, these sorts of stories (and even some that are more stupid) occur here regularly. Okay, I'm bracing myself for all the Louisiana jokes now.

  • To Why I don't live | 11:53
    Jan. 14, 2009 12:41 p.m.

    Happy day for us, too!

    Do yourself and us a favor, stay in the world. New York, maybe. Where things like this never happen (See report on Plaxico Burress) ;>)

  • @ Why I don't live in Utah
    Jan. 14, 2009 12:39 p.m.

    Why I don't live in Utah but I return daily to read about it in the Utah paper and make comments about what is going on there. nice.

  • Says to Common Sense
    Jan. 14, 2009 12:39 p.m.

    Maybe we just ought to let police officers carry guns. Problem solved. All this self protection stuff is hooey. Except for the police, only people who are paranoid and lack in self esteem carry guns. Now that is real common sense. Oh wait a minute, we live in Utah. And we do need to protect ourselves from the United Nations forces. Sorry, I forgot.

  • Mike
    Jan. 14, 2009 12:35 p.m.

    All I can say is, Git'er dun!

  • Unchambered
    Jan. 14, 2009 12:32 p.m.

    If we are encouraging people to walk around with a chambered round in an automatic it is just a matter of time before some idiot will "accidentally" shoot someone and blame everyone else for his carelessness.

  • Ok!
    Jan. 14, 2009 12:14 p.m.

    HOW many registered gun-toting people have gone to the loo with their guns chambered and we've never heard about it?? Just because ONE silly person with a loose gun holster accidentally has his gun go off means we're all up in arms about having arms????

    This is funny, but the idiotic debate is turning un-funny.

  • Common sense says...
    Jan. 14, 2009 12:08 p.m.

    Seems like civilians should empty the chamber of their legally carried firearms in all those places that the police do.

    Hmmm... ever seen an officer unload a gun to go to he restroom?

  • Why I don't live in Utah
    Jan. 14, 2009 11:53 a.m.

    Another example as to why the happiest day of my life was when I saw the sign "Leaving Utah". One of these days someone should add to the sign "Re-entering the World".

  • Dear "what is my....."
    Jan. 14, 2009 11:47 a.m.

    (putting Karnac hat on)
    (end Karnac)

    Only in Utah, for sure. Who needs a 40mm just to use the john at a fast-food restaurant, except a right-wing paranoid gun-nut? (Probably all depressed because he lost his life savings to The Free Capitalist scammer.)

  • Guaglione
    Jan. 14, 2009 11:28 a.m.

    Maybe the whole not chambering a bullet is a good idea. I mean, fire extinguishers have the separate nozzle that you have to attach before you use them. And fire alarms have all those codes you have to enter before you can pull the lever. And of course, everyone knows that brake pedals in cars have that lever you have to move to the side before you can press the brake. Makes perfect sense.

  • Guns don't kill...
    Jan. 14, 2009 11:22 a.m.

    Toilets do.

  • what is my political affiliation
    Jan. 14, 2009 11:19 a.m.

    Let's see, my race is swift, my education is better than yours, my religion is God's own, and my political affiliation is Straight Party. But thank heavens that there are brave concealed carry holders to protect us from marauding loos. . .

  • rob99rt
    Jan. 14, 2009 11:02 a.m.

    What a Moron !: You say it's unacceptable to have a round chambered in a restroom. Do you expect him to un-chamber the round when he goes into the bathroom? How about un-chambering the round when he gets into the restaurant from the parking lot? What you're proposing is making it MORE dangerous by creating unneeded instances of gun handling.

    The pistol was not in a secure holster. That was the main problem here. I've carried several pistols over the last 5 years and have never had one drop out of its holster because I purchase good quality holsters, and yes, I carry with a round chambered. A criminal is not going to call you and make an appointment before he shows up, so you must carry a pistol for protection that will work the instant it's needed.

    Speaking of carelessness, do you or your friends ever talk on the phone while driving? I'm willing to bet that thousands more are injured every year due to that than accidental firearm discharges.

    Sadly, you don't *really* support the 2nd Amendment if that is your attitude toward self-preservation.

  • Fred
    Jan. 14, 2009 11:01 a.m.

    One will get you twenty that we didn't get the whole story. When you look at the mechanism of a Kahr pistol, it is pretty plain to see that the thing isn't capable of firing from being dropped! Something else must have happened. That will be the real story!

  • Re: truly newsworthy
    Jan. 14, 2009 11:03 a.m.

    Where do you get, by this story, that "most who conceal carry are as inept and potentially dangerous as the gent who iced the john"? Use blanket statements often? Tell me what your political affiliation is, your race, education, religion, etc. and I bet I could throw some out there on you.

  • LOL
    Jan. 14, 2009 10:40 a.m.

    I can't stop laughing. I'm glad no one one hurt, but this story just makes me smile. Truly, it represents an only in Utah sort of moment.

    To truly newsworthy, I think the plural is doofi, and I hope all of them (concealed carriers) think twice as a result of this article.

    Thanks to Ben Winslow for a great laugh.

  • What a Moron !
    Jan. 14, 2009 10:30 a.m.

    Having a concealed carry permit is one thing. Having a round chambered and ready to fire in the restroom of a fast food joint is unacceptable. I support the NRA and the right to carry, but come on, this guy could of killed somebody due to his carelessness. Who needs to have a round chambered and ready to fire???

  • truly newsworthy
    Jan. 14, 2009 10:32 a.m.

    This is newsworthy because of all the doofuses who defend "the right to bear arms" and never admit that most who conceal carry are as inept and potentially dangerous as the gent who iced the john. On the other hand, who hasn't felt the urge to pull out your pistol and blow the plumbing away when it leaks or is backed up. . .

  • Model One
    Jan. 14, 2009 10:24 a.m.

    The unanswered question in most minds, "Did he wash his hands"?

  • Better reporting pls -
    Jan. 14, 2009 10:24 a.m.

    Loved the story. Headline is a bit misleading though - man shoots toilet? He didn't shoot at it - he DROPPED the gun, which then proceeded to shoot the toilet. (Was he sitting on it? Now that wd've been uhm, hilarious)

    Headline should read "Toilet Shot!" because that is what happened, the man didn't shoot the toilet.

  • Johny Fairplay
    Jan. 14, 2009 10:14 a.m.

    ^^^ Observer = funny.

    Discharge of firearm is newsworthy.

  • if they take away guns. . .
    Jan. 14, 2009 10:17 a.m.

    Then toilets will run rampant and take over. . .

  • Jennifer
    Jan. 14, 2009 9:51 a.m.

    Too funny, Observer! Really, though, this kind of an accident isn't newsworthy. I'm glad no serious harm was done to anyone, toilet notwithstanding.

  • Thank you
    Jan. 14, 2009 9:36 a.m.

    This story just made my day. I love a good laugh. Glad everyone was okay.

  • Observer
    Jan. 14, 2009 9:33 a.m.

    That gives new definition to being shot in the head.

  • James
    Jan. 14, 2009 9:31 a.m.

    Well, at least no one was hurt.