LDS Church donates to pro-Prop. 8 group

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  • Bre
    Nov. 10, 2008 6:56 p.m.

    The only thing i wonder about is where did this money that the church donated come from? I think marriage is a sacred thing between man and woman, but did the donation come from MY tithing money that i've given to the church for the last twenty years of my life?

  • Tom Wall Hemet, Ca Stake
    Nov. 7, 2008 1:27 a.m.

    As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I will speak to my Brothers and Sisters in the church who are not happy with our leaders position against same sex marriage. Why dont you make a list of all the things you do not like about the Church and send it to President Monson, maybe he could bypass the Lords council and run the Church your way. Did you raise you hand and sustain him as prophet, seer and revelator? My loyalty is to the Redeemer Jesus Christ. I have pledged to be united with Christ in voting against same sex marriage. Our Father has made it clear to all of us that joy comes to those who follow him. Christ always reminds me to love those who disagree with him. Christ also tells me to never deviate from his commandments. (He has commanded all of us NOT to practice same sex marriage). You must speak to him about this. My stand to vote no on same sex marriage is definite and immoveable. I do what is right and let the consequence follow.
    Tom Wall

  • Californian
    Oct. 31, 2008 7:12 p.m.

    Leave Proposition 8 to Californians. Then tell me again how my heterosexual marriage is in anyway threatened by homosexual marriage. Be prepared to cite compelling evidence of such threats. What, you can't find any? Surprise! It's just like it was with interracial marriage. The majority of Americans opposed it, now it's legal. And, guess what? Nobody was harmed by two loving, committed adults tying the knot. If you want to protect marriage why don't you look for ways to reduce the divorce rate. Perhaps protest outside those drive-thru wedding chapels in Las Vegas. Meanwhile, keep government out of my bedroom. I'm voting No on Proposition 8, because it's discriminatory and morally wrong to limit someone else's right to marry.

  • Non-LDS in Salt Lake
    Oct. 31, 2008 4:15 a.m.

    I recently moved my family to Utah from an overseas corporate assignment. I have gotten to know many of my LDS neighbors. One couple sent the missionaries and we welcomed them. They visited several times, gave us personal assignments (I read up to Alma in the Book of Mormon-Nothing about gays so far), and invited us to attend a meeting.

    I have asked the missionaries not to visit for the purpose of conversion any more. They can come as friends and to chat, but I am not willing to have my family become a part of an organization that actively campaigns to deny gays equal protection. It is so clearly bigoted and hurtful to do this in my personal opinion.

    I will continue to develop close friendships with my LDS neighbors and co-workers, but at this point I can't imagine why I would want to expose my kids to such teachings. Not smoking and drinking is great, but it seems more morally significant how one treats others.

    I lived in California for a while, and if I were still there, I would fight Prop 8 and vote against it.

  • A line in the Sand
    Oct. 30, 2008 9:47 p.m.

    When the Church published "proclamation to the world" it drew a line in the sand. The Church of Jesus Christ stated the Eternal truth, Marriage is only between a man and a woman. Who's side are we on? The Lords, or the side that wont win? That and marriage exists as God's permission to procreate. If we couldn't procreate there would be no reason for marriage. Thankfully we can procreate hence we need marriage. A male and male cannot procreate, neither can a woman with a woman. If the "Couple" cannot procreate why would they want or need to be married?
    Elder Oaks spoke at a fireside here at BYU-I, every LDS member needs to vote in favor of prop 8 and 102(Arizona). Coming from an Apostle IT IS A COMMANDMENT TO SUPPORT MARRIAGE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN ONLY.

  • Practicing Gay Mormon
    Oct. 30, 2008 9:30 p.m.

    Isn't "practicing gay Mormon" an oxymoron? I'm just sayin'...

  • To Sireofmany
    Oct. 30, 2008 2:24 p.m.

    To whoever wrote this and titled it "To Sireofmany". Please read about the great and spacious building in the Book of Mormon and perhaps think about what you just wrote.

  • To "fed up in california"
    Oct. 30, 2008 8:45 a.m.

    Everyone is born with tendencies toward particular passions and urges. I don't deny that the feelings you have were not your choice. I made no choice to be heterosexual. One person may predisposed to anger, another to hate, or impatience, or depression. The list goes on and on, both on the positive and negative side. That is part of life. If you are Mormon then you know God has given us direction designed to effect our happiness and progress us toward perfection. So you know the angry person must learn to control his anger, the hateful person must learn to control his hate; we must all learn to control our passions and urges which God has told us will not support our eternal happiness and our progress toward perfection.

  • fed up in california
    Oct. 29, 2008 11:21 p.m.

    I am a gay Mormon that lives in So. california. My partner and I have lived together for many years. I visited a L.D.S. therapist a number of years ago, and he told me that i was born this way, he would not go on record saying that...but it is true, it is what i believe. My life is not a Choice.....i say life, not lifestyle. My partner and I live our lives not our lifesytle. It is NOT a moral issue. It is a political issue. WAKE UP MORMONS!!!! LET US LIVE!!!

  • Abigail in California
    Oct. 29, 2008 10:32 p.m.

    I live in California. #1, it is not embarrassing having my picture on the news or my name on the donation list. Our wave parties on the corners of our cities are a lot of fun. 85 - 98% of the honks and thumbs up signal to us that there ARE many californians who support tradional marriage. It will show at the polls.

    I for one, am very appreciative of any church that donates in support of Prop. 8. Thank you

    Just remember that the TV, Newspapers and other persons will try to embarrass, but their hate and love for contention is so vivid that they end up embarrassing themselves.

  • Another California Mormon
    Oct. 29, 2008 10:12 p.m.

    I, too, support Proposition 8. My friends who oppose the measure know of my feelings. My standing in the community has not changed at all. Opposition to the church from some groups has increased, but collaboration with the church from other groups has also increased. The press is no more antagonistic than it has ever been.

    Throughout my life, the Church has occasionally spoken out on moral issues that were on the ballot--like gambling and the sale of alcohol in grocery stores. Before my time, the Church has spoken about slavery, Prohibition, and religious freedom. In each case, people (usually those who oppose the Church's view) have complained about the separation of church and state, which has been considered in the courts and found legal.

    Traditionally marriage is so important to LDS thought that it is inconceivable that the Church would not speak out on this issue, regardless of the consequences.

    As the words of the old hymn advise us, "Do what is right, let the consequence follow." The only right thing is to support Proposition 8.

  • California 8 supporter
    Oct. 29, 2008 8:31 p.m.

    In response "To sireofmany": I don't know where you live, but I live in California and am in total support of Proposition 8 and the LDS Church's stance on this issue. I have not lost "my public standing" or "seen my reputation go up in flames." I am proud to stand with my fellow citizens, including members of many churches and other organizations, who recognize the importance of protecting and defining marriage. We are only trying to do what many other states have already done by defining marriage as being between a man and a woman. I am glad to be a member of a church that is not afraid to take a stand on one of the most important moral issues of our time. I am proud to be part of the California LDS members who have sacrificed time and means to support this proposition. My arm was never twisted to do what I did. My question is, why is the LDS Church the only one that is criticized for suporting this proposition. What about the Catholics, the Calvary Chapel and all the other evangelical churches supporting Prop 8? If they spent $2000 would there be such an uproar?

  • law
    Oct. 29, 2008 8:08 p.m.

    The Church should get more involved in issues. The only thing they can't do is endorse specific candidates.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Oct. 29, 2008 7:49 p.m.

    Let me try to put my last statement in a way where the stakes are clear, without my making statements that go beyond the know.
    If proposition 8 passes victory against "King and King" will still take effort, if it fails, than the implementation of a pro-homosexual curriculum in California Public Schools is a done deal.
    This is why courts should not legislate from the bench. Policies that have braod implications should be enacted legislatively where all parties that have any interest in the issue and not just those directly effected by the case at hand can make their voices known.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Oct. 29, 2008 7:45 p.m.

    Our only chance to stop the teaching of same-gender marriage as part of equality curriculums is the passing of Proposition 8. There is still a chance that equality curriculums will include such, and there will be more strugle, but if proposition 8 fails, then frontal assaults on morality in the schools are almost certain.

  • Re: RE:Matomand | 4:30
    Oct. 29, 2008 7:05 p.m.

    We do let people live as they choose.

    The mormons are not.

    The forcing their beliefs on everyone else.

    The mormons want marriage to suit themselves.

    They have already had firemen forced march in there pioneer day paradesmormon pride parades.

    The want mormonism and their literature taught and read in the close proximity to schools, so all children either accept it, tolerate it, or embrace it.

    They want all organizations to be forced to accept or tolerate and not speak out against it.

    Or they will call anyone who does a bigot and worse names and they want go after anyone who speaks out against them for hate speech and have them censored or punished.

    This has happen in other countries including Iran, it must be stop now or it will happen here.

    So lets be real honest about who is forcing who's beliefs on us.

  • RE:Matomand
    Oct. 29, 2008 4:30 p.m.

    We are letting people live as they believe.

    The Gays are not.

    The forcing their beliefs on everyone else.

    The Gays want redefine marriage to suit themselves.

    They have already hadd firemen forced march in theor parades,

    The want homosexuality and their literature taught and read in the schools, so all children either accept it, tolerate it, or embrace it.

    They want all organizations to be forced to accept or tolerate and not speak out against it. and not to be alloewed to use public facilities or recieve public or private money.

    Or they will call anyone who does a bigot and worse names and they want go after anyone who speaks out against them for hate speeech and have them censored or punished.

    This has happen in other countries including our neighbor canada, it must be stop now or it will happen here.

    So lets be real honest about who is forcing who's befiefs on us.

  • Joe Dodd (the idiot!)
    Oct. 29, 2008 2:46 p.m.

    SORRY Sireofmany: I was responding to
    "To Sireofmany" and not you, "Sireofmany".
    My apologies for the confusion.

  • Anonymous
    Oct. 29, 2008 2:39 p.m.

    Proposition 8 will do NOTHING to protect children from being taught about gay marriage. That is the most ridiculous reason I have ever heard.

    What? Are you going to tell me next that Obama is the anti-Christ?!

  • Matomand
    Oct. 29, 2008 1:41 p.m.

    Voting to outlaw something is multiple levels of magnitude different than voting to amend the Contitution to allow discrimination. Please, people, try to step outside the Stepford mentality.
    Some others do not believe the same way you do. Unless they are harming you and yours in some way, they should be allowed to live in accordance with their beliefs. All have free agency and it is clear throughout the scriptures that it is up to the INDIVIDUAL to live in accordance with their conscience. Who knows what legally allowing discrimination will lead to next. This is a very fundamental issue in direct violation to the Founding Fathers vision of freedom. If you want a theocracy - have it in Utah. California and the rest of the US are democratic.

  • Greg in Clovis California
    Oct. 29, 2008 1:04 p.m.

    Prop 8 is not a political issue, it is a moral issue and this Church, as with any other church not only has the right but the responsibility to speak out on moral issues. The 61% of the voters in California decided with Proposition 22 in 2000 that marriage shall be between one man and one woman. This past May the California supreme court by a 4 to 3 margin trumped the will of the people. Prop 8 is a constitutional ammendment to define marriage as it has been defined by every viable society since the beginning of time. The LDS church is joining with other churches, both catholic and evangelical to defend families and the institution of marriage, just as it did in the year 2000 with Prop 22. We who are publicy supporting Prop 8 are not as To Sireofmany says "risking their public standing following the counsel of the Church." We are not "watching our reputations go up in flames as we earn the scorn of our neighbors and fellow citizens by supporting an unpopular ballot initiative." The public response is possitive and even if it weren't, who cares. You do what is right. This is right.

  • Yes on 8
    Oct. 29, 2008 12:57 p.m.

    I live in California, am LDS and support the Church in this effort. I have had my yard signs stolen and egged. Other people have been sworn at and threatened. This issue will have serious repercussions for all of us regardless of the outcome of the vote. So those of you sitting in Utah had better wake up and pay attention. Some things are just too important to sit on your brains and complain about.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Oct. 29, 2008 12:33 p.m.

    To the 11:55 commentator,
    You should actually listen to the letter. At least this year the First Presidency clearly and unequivacably stated that the church retains the right to take stands on moral issues.
    This is a moral issue, and so the church has and will continue to take a stand on it.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Oct. 29, 2008 12:31 p.m.

    To sireofmany at 10:54,
    Yes, Joe Dobb did not mean to attack you, he was respinding to the person who attacked you.
    This goes back to my view that what is needed on these boards is registration of user names so there is logic in who we are responding to.
    I agree with your initial comment that to say someone other than the First Presidency runs the church is downright wrong.
    On the other hand I think many people do not understand how much of the leadership of the church is in the hands of bishops and stake presidents, and how truly competent these men are.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Oct. 29, 2008 12:23 p.m.

    To the 8:34 commentator,
    If proposition 8 is unpopular, than why have similar proposals been overwhelmingly passed in every state where they have come to a vote?
    Anyway, I think you need to stop following the teachings of Nehor. The goal is not for the church to be popular, but for it to teach the truth.
    Homosexuality remains a sin, no matter how much you try to redefine it. Having same-gender attraction is not by itself sinful, but homosexual actions are sinful, always have been and will be as long as men have bodies which they can defile by such actions.

  • Porter
    Oct. 29, 2008 12:20 p.m.

    Where has freedom gone? Will government force our patriates that stand up for truth and justice to cringe and stand down? What have we become? Have we forgotten our childlike attributes of kindness and fairplay? Shame on those that are forcing our names into the open to determine whether or not we have skeletons in our closet to discredit our belief systems just because we have a higher sense of moral turpetude. The same moral fiber that our country was built on. Have you not seen the decay in the last century? Can you say that it is good? I would say let us vote without condemnation or repute!! Do not take the signs from our yards!! Do not take away our liberties!! Do not spray paint our homes with your vulgarities!! If you wish to fight, have courage enough to do it in my face, don't hide in the darkness and become as the gadianton robbers!!! Stand up for truth and justice, quit demeaning and abasing yourselves!!!

  • John Pack Lambert
    Oct. 29, 2008 12:16 p.m.

    To the 12:47 commentator,
    The LDS Church meeting with a private political group has no relevance to the seperation of church and state.
    Protectmarriage is a private, not a government institution.
    Vote yes on 8, it is our only chance for freedom.

  • I'm not saying.....
    Oct. 29, 2008 11:55 a.m.

    that I'm in favor or against proposition 8, but each year aren't we read letters from the pulpit that the church (LDS) will not be involved in politics or in advising the members on how to vote. With such said, and maybe I'm wrong, how does this stand up against the church making a donation on this matter. Doesn't that contradict what they say during each election? And what about the calls made from members at the churches request, the visits by church leaders to the people in California. Just seems like a contradiction of what we've always been told about the elections. Anyone care to enlighten???

  • julie
    Oct. 29, 2008 11:19 a.m.

    The statements by Dodd and Patrick and Tanner are exactly how i feel!!!!

    We live in a day where evil is called good and good is called evil.

    For many, it's time to decide if they are truly on the Lord's "side"....despite persecution. Time for "the sifting."

    Those who follow God's prophet need not fear the reputation of His church. NO unhollowed hand can stop the work!!!!

    It's high adventure from here on out folks!




  • Sireofmany
    Oct. 29, 2008 10:58 a.m.

    to Joe Dodd:

    Are you delusional? Read my comment. I said no such thing. Someone responded to me and maybe you are mistaking their response as something I said. I am faithful LDS. I teach Institute. I am not anti religion in any manner. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you attack someone who is on your side. But, if you are that blind that you cannot recognize your allies maybe you are not on the correct side either.

  • Patrick
    Oct. 29, 2008 10:50 a.m.

    People get so worked up about the separation of church and state. However, you will find it no where in official government documents, like the Constitution.

    The entire idea is Jeffersons, which he laid down in a letter, which is meant to keep religion free from the state and not the state free from religion.

    The founders clearly knew that this Government could not stand without a religious people.

    Please do some studying before spouting incorrect ideas.

  • Tanner
    Oct. 29, 2008 10:42 a.m.

    If a person or entity (i.e. the LDS Church)of integrity and strong moral character has true convictions in a matter of great value to them, they will support and defend those convictions regardless of the consequences.
    I think the LDS Church's actions in this matter is an example of this.
    I applaud the church's (or anyone else's)efforts to defend their convictions in a lawful manner.

  • Sean
    Oct. 29, 2008 10:09 a.m.

    Last time I voted it is a secret balot. I don't think that has changed. So if I were to vote in favor of Prop 8 there is only one person that would know. Me!

    Now if I made it publicly known that I supported Prop 8 and someone thought differently of me who cares. I am standing up for my right to believe what I want. I am not going to change my beliefs to meet what some legislating judges or anyone else says should be right. I shall always believe that sexual realtions between two members of the same gender is wrong morally.

    "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ"

  • Joe Dodd
    Oct. 29, 2008 10:03 a.m.

    Sireofmany: Are you delusional? PR has nothing to do with the will of God. Either you believe in God and the TRUTHS he has revealed or you don't. If you don't, best of luck!
    If you do then you really need to wake up and make an attempt at intellectual honesty.
    God made his point with Sodom and Gommorrah. This isn't an LDS issue. It's a Christian issue. All TRUE Chritians are fundamentally opposed to the gay lifestyle and all that it entails, yet we do our best to be kind, tolerant, and respectful to the person. Not perfect, but striving to be.
    Why won't all the ANTI Religion fanatics be honest? This is just one more hammer for you to attempt to batter all religion with, in the hopes that you can someday feel better about yourself.

  • When want for ourselves:
    Oct. 29, 2008 9:47 a.m.

    I agree with Dodd, there's much more below the surface, than what people want to face.

    But all will end, just as past civilizations have.

  • To Sireofmany:
    Oct. 29, 2008 8:34 a.m.

    You are absolutely right that the Church's Media Relations Dept is obviously not calling the shots on the Church's support for California Proposition 8. Otherwise a PR disaster of this magnitude would not be happening.

    There is no way that the Media Relations Dept would allow the LDS Church make such clumsy, ill advised move and risk its image, reputation and public goodwill by backing such a controversial issue that troubles so many people. Proposition 8 is clearly despised not only by millions of California citizens, but by millions of people living in thousand communities around the world who care deeply about protecting civil rights everywhere.

    I feel bad for the thousands of California LDS members who are risking their public standing following the counsel of the Church. They are watching their reputations go up in flames as they earn the scorn of their neighbors and fellow citizens by supporting an unpopular ballot initiative that although they may feel personally uncomfortable supporting, head for certain defeat.

  • Robert
    Oct. 29, 2008 8:20 a.m.

    This report simply shows that the church is following the letter of the law in its efforts to support California's Proposition 8 initiative. Some church representatives travelled to California to meet with other groups in support of the initiative. So the church reports that it covered their travel expenses.

    Most people would see this report as an effort by the church to keep itself totally in compliance with all legal requirements, however small. If the church didn't file this report and someone from the other side found out, the opposition would make a big deal about it.

    So, I say, good for the church; it's clearly squeaky clean in its compliance with all legal requirements.

  • joe dodd
    Oct. 29, 2008 7:56 a.m.

    The Church should definitely stand for something.
    Any issue can become political. 50 years ago, people would have laughed in your face if you said gay people would have the legal right to marry.
    The point is, religious issues are all being attacked and politicized. The Church didn't move toward politics. Quite the opposite--the world is attempting to undermine all things religious in an attempt to squash the very thing that makes them feel guilty about their sinful lifestyle.

  • To ama
    Oct. 29, 2008 7:22 a.m.

    You don't know what you're talking about. You seem to be scrambling for reason to make yourself feel better. It's one thing for the Church to donate to candidates and lobby lawmakers. That's fine under the IRS rules. When they go directly to voters, that's active campaigning and a clear mingling of church in the world of politics. Now, this issue is obviously political and moral, and church members should vote according to what they believe in - whether that be what the church says about the issue or not. But they should not be spoken down to or told to vote one way by their leaders.

  • Jon
    Oct. 29, 2008 6:47 a.m.

    These funds should be taxed. I don't understand why they are not paying taxes for these monies paid.
    Please explaint to me.

  • Sireofmany
    Oct. 29, 2008 6:27 a.m.

    to Paperboy:

    What an inane comment. Do you actually believe The Media Relations Department is the decision making body for the church? You really need to get your medications checked.

  • California Mormon
    Oct. 29, 2008 6:13 a.m.

    I think it is VERY sad that the church involves itself in politics. I think they will see the back lash when their proposition fails to pass. I hope it will lead to a better treatment of LDS members who are gay and lesbian.

  • ama
    Oct. 29, 2008 1:54 a.m.

    This isn't erosion of the wall between Church and State. If the state somehow endorsed the LDS Church, or if the LDS Church became the effective government, that would be erosion of the wall. But this? Regardless of tax laws, this isn't erosion of that wall in any meaningful sense.

    The purpose of voting has always been for the people to express their opinion about what is best for society. That's precisely what the LDS are doing, along with any other conscientious person. That their opinion stems from their religious beliefs has nothing to do with it. The idea that people should as a rule keep their religion out of politics is hogwash that no founding father or intellectually honest person would ever agree with.

  • Paperboy
    Oct. 29, 2008 1:15 a.m.

    It will be interesting to learn which LDS leaders attended the meeting. Were the Church representatives General Authorities, Church Attorneys or representatives from the Church's Media Relations Department, the real decision makers

  • Paperboy
    Oct. 29, 2008 12:47 a.m.

    This is a big story, despite the relatively small contribution amount mentioned in the article. There is bound to be some kind of a backlash from the public regarding the perceived erosion of the wall between Church and State, especiall given the favorable tax treatment the LDS Church enjoys. I've never seen the LDS church get such negative PR. A bit of payback, perhaps?