Regarding the degree: No one informed Chad that he would not be receiving his
degree. He walked in the ceremonies and then, a month or so later, when the
degree didn't arrive in the mail as it was supposed to, he called and found
there was a hold on his degree. Then came a letter saying the degree would not
be awarded. His only option was to become a member in good standing and then
apply to the university to have the degree awarded. There was never mention of
the appeal that is supposed to accompany notice of disciplinary action.Can someone tell me if they see a violation on the part of the university for
failing to give him notice of the alleged wrong, failure to give notice (or
permit) an appeal, refusal to grant the degree when Chad was in compliance with
school policy at all times while earning the degree (do you see it this way, was
he in compliance if he wasn't required to adhere to the honor code while taking
the independent study classes?)? any citations you can give me
would be greatly apprecated.
After the credits were completed, he was excommunicated. The reasons give were
that he failed to pay tithing and wasn't wearing garments. Yet, the only thing
discussed in his proceeding was the calendar.Assume it was the
calendar that got him excommunicated. He was told if he would abandon the
calendar project he could save his membership. Chad didn't own the project,
another person (a lendor) did. Chad can't legally terminate someone else's
interest in the calendar project, yet that's what he was being asked to promise
to do.The reasons given Chad for his excommunication were failure to
pay tithing and not wearing garments. Yet, he was never offered a chance to pay
tithing and wear his garments to avoid excommunication. Is this usual?
shouldn't he be told the reason he is being punished and allowed to repent and
correct his behavior?
Chad didn't take his last four credits as a student on campus at BYU. He took
the courses through independent learning and completed them in his living room
in Las Vegas. I've searched the policy of BYU and there does't seem to be a
requirement that a student taking independent study have an ecclesiastical
clearance, or even adhere to the honor code. Anything, Anywhere Anytime is how
the indepent study program is advertised. When Chad left BYU in 2002, he was
active in the church. When he took his final 4 credits, he was not.
A very funny read, makes me once again proud to be atheist.
Re: Broke what rules?"What actual rule did this man break?"He broke whichever rules caused him to be excommunicated from the
Church. Disciplinary councils are private, but at the least I'd bet it has
something to do with his blatant mockery of the missionary program."Does the BYU rule book say. 'If in the event of excommunication your Diploma
previously earned will be voided...?"Two things: First, his degree
wasn't "previously earned." He was excommunicated 7/13. The Summer term ended
8/11, and graduation for Spring/Summer was 8/14-15.Second, the Honor
Code states specifically that excommunication makes a student ineligible to
continue at BYU."Is it also a rule that you have to be a meber of
the church to attend BYU? NO!"No, but he was, so the rules for
members apply."Do you have to be an active member if you are a
member at all to get a degree?"Absolutely. Continuing students must
get a yearly ecclesiastical endorsement that certifies that they are active
members living in harmony with the Honor Code. Distance students are not
required to get the endorsement, but are still expected to be living the Honor
Code. He wasn't. End of story.
Mr. Hardy needs to join another religion and get a letter of good standing in
that religion. If BYU respects one's right to choose their own religion, there
should be no problem in awarding the diploma.
To Alex, My first thought was one reason that some churches might
excommunicate you is that you were baptized a member of The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints. While a Latter-day Saint must get an
ecclesiastical endorsement from the bishop of the ward in which they reside,
non-LDS people have 3 options. 1-Get an ecclesiastical endorsement from
the bishop of the ward where they reside. 2-Get an ecclesiastical
endorsement from someone at the Honor Code Office. 3- Get an
ecclisiastical endorsement from a religious leader of their choice.
Depending on the circumstances, you might get thrown out of BYU for the same
reasons you were excommunicated, but only with excommunication from the LDS
Church is the excommunication grounds for dismissal in and of itself.
What actual rule did this man break? We keep talking about certain rules he
broke, what are these? So if you are excommunicated by the church You broke a
BYU rule?Does the BYU rule book say. "If in the event of
excommunication your Diploma previously earned will be voided until you come
back to the church and at least pretend to believe"?Is it also a
rule that you have to be a meber of the church to attend BYU? NO! Do you have to
be an active member if you are a member at all to get a degree?
Failing to see - you are spot on. Hands-down, you have the most intelligent
post on this thread.
Give 'em Heck Chad!
As repressive of an institution of higher learning as I think BYU is, I also
recognize that students enroll there knowing well what is expected of them. I
chose not to go to BYU, because I knew I wouldn't fit in, nor would I be happy
with so many rules and regulations. Instead, I opted to attend a different
university.The full details of Hardy's excommunication and the
revocation of his degree are not known, but it does seem he made a conscious
choice to create the shirtless calendar, knowing he would face church
discipline. Surely if he was at the end of his college career at BYU, he knew
his academic degree was at stake. Do I think it's silly for someone
to lose their degree over their "bad" behavior when they have completed all
academic requirements? Absolutely. But in this case, Hardy chose to attend a
university where that was a possibility. He chose to publish a calendar and
make public statements against the LDS church. He had to have known the music
he would face would not be in his favor.
Many of you are contending that he ought to receive his degree because he met
all of the _academic_ requirements. That's fine, but he didn't meet the
_behavioral_ requirements, and both are required _at every single university in
the country_ in order to graduate.To those bringing up the idea of
BYU pulling degrees because graduates aren't living the Honor Code after
graduation, it's a straw man. The Honor Code is in effect from the time you
matriculate until the time you graduate. Hardy's violation occurred during that
interim, not afterward. Apples and rutabagas, people.Finally, many
have licked their chops at the idea of Hardy suing BYU. I've noticed no
attorneys have weighed in on this. If they did, they'd tell you that it was
Hardy, not BYU, that broke the legal contract between the two. However, there's
another wrinkle to this. BYU _must_ act in this manner in order to protect
itself against future lawsuits. If BYU caves and gives a degree to someone who
was in clear violation of the Honor Code at the time of his prospective
graduation, every student who is kicked out for Honor Code violations will have
precedent to demand equal treatment.
John Pack Lambert:What if the student could not get an
ecclesiastical endorsement from his place of worship?
To the 1:46 commentator, As best I understand this appears to be what
happened. Mr. Hardy began as a student at BYU some years ago, probably at least
ten. He completed most of his course work at the school, but for what ever
reason did not complete his degree. Over the last several years he may
have taken a few on-line classes from BYU Independent Study. Independent Study
at BYU is a program that has few restrictions on who can take the courses. He then got excommunicated in July. He decided that in order to get more
publicity and slander the LDS Church more he would apply for his degree. By the
end of September BYU had processed his application and sent him notice that
since he was excommunicated at the time his degree would be issued BYU was not
able to issue him a degree and could not until he was back in good standing with
the church. Mr. Hardy then spent a few weeks gathering anti-Mormons to his
cause so they would be ready for a barrage on this and other boards when the
news was relaesed.
To Alex, Being excommunicated from a another religious would not get
you thrown out of BYU. Only excommunication or disfelloweshipment from the LDS
Church are not allowed to attend.
Just a note to some out there that don't understand. You don't get thrown out
of BYU by not being a Mormon. Instead, you can be thrown out of BYU for being
excommunicated from your own religion. If a person of any faith is in good
standing with his church and otherwise abides by the honor code, he will not be
thrown out. This honor code does not, nor ever has required that you be a
Mormon. By the way, this guy's story has holes in it. You don't
get excommunicated for not paying tithing. It just doesn't happen.
An abuse of power. He's done nothing immoral nor illegal to create such a
calendar, and apparently he completed all required coursework to earn his
degree, else why was his name listed for graduation? Since when is it sinful
for a man to take off his shirt, or turn that into a simple business
opportunity? LDS has plently more in its sordid history to be ashamed of,
compared with this. Give the guy his degree--he earned it. Or, let him sue for
justice if it comes to that. May calmer heads prevail.
Oow...You Mormons are so very irritable. Why don't you all try to be happy with
others instead of always tossing and throwing stones at everyone else?! Give it
a break with all the hate. WALK the line of compassion for a change and try to
I'm really confused here and trying hard to understand this situation
(especially given the poor reporting). More than a few posters have asked how
this young man was permitted to continue at BYU given that he admits he has
fallen away from the Mormon Church over the last six years. Why has no one
answered this question? Wouldn't he need to be checked and recertified by his
bishop(s) each year?Also, many posters have asked why other BYU
students (particularly star athletes) had egregious violations of the Honor Code
and yet were not expelled or refused degrees from BYU. Why no answers to that
either (except for someone who talked about differences in '1980's standards and
present day,' whatever that means)?I just wish someone here with
some LDS knowledge would answer the questions posed on this board.
Wow...poor guy. Thats what he gets for going to BYU in the first place.
I am a Catholic, and I think BYU and the LDS faith could learn a thing or two
from MODERN Catholic Colleges. They are more tolerant, and understand that as
schools in a larger institution of higher education they need to maintain
certain standards of inclusiveness.That being said, BYU was well
within its rights to refuse this gentleman his diploma, just as I think the
greater collegiate community would be within their rights to remove the
accredidation of BYU. The closed and authoratarian nature of the
LDS may keep the Mormon community strong and proud, but it keeps Mormon's from
being accepted in the mainstream. Frankly, actions like these color our view of
the greater Mormon community, making it seem anachronistic and alien, further
reinforcing certain unfair stereotypes.Hope the cake looks nice,
because you aren't going to get a chance to taste it.Terry
Good on ya, BYU.
This is why u should never trust religious organizations to run any thing other
than its own church, they always bring their politics into even the most mundane
of things. Personally i feel that the best thing to do is let the
church run the church and let educational institutions run them selves. Go to
church to pray if you wish and go school/uni to learn. Its when u try to mix the
above that you get stupidity like this incident.
A good idea, Yale and Havard should also employee the practice and cancel bush's
degrees, or maybe we just need to recognize that they do not mean a thing.
To the 4:48 commentator, Mr. Hardy was not excommunicated until July.
I have no evidence that he paid tuition anytime after that. In fact,
there is no evidence that he applied to graduate until after his
excommunication. The more I read about his recruitment of allies on
anti-Mormon boards, the more I suspect he intentionally waited until after he
was excommunicated to apply for graduation because he knew it would be denied
and give him another chance to wage a war against the church and its
institutions. This guy has set out on a war to cause as much hurt and
disruption to the church and its institutions as he can possibly cause, and too
many people are being lead away by the craftiness of men.
To 5:52, You are wrong. BYU never allowed Mr. Hardy to graduate.
Walking at graduation does not mean you are being allowed to graduate. It is a
symbolic gesture, that allows you community. However as I have noted, many
schools allow you to walk four months before you complete the requirements of
your degree, so walking is not allowing you to graduate.
To sad at 3:20, I think you hit the nail on the head. While
BYU has clear standards and expectation of its students on campus, it does not
and really can not enforce as great standards on independent study students. Independent study students do not need ecclisastical endorsement. This is
the method Mr. Hardy used to get his last few credits. However, translating
indepedent study courses into a degree requires going through an application
process in which they consider whether you meet the graduation requirements. By shifting from being an independent study student to being a degree seeker
you expose yourself to the higher scrutiny placed on students, and if you are
excommunicated or disfellowshipped from the church you do not qualify and will
be denied a degree. Offering independent study courses is one thing, but
giving out degrees must be connected with more stringent standards to maintain
the integrity of the institution. That is what is going on here. I
wish we knew more, but this story is not what Mr. Hardy is trying to present it
If someone had done something that was considered an excommunicable offense at a
different church's college, I have a feeling their college would have done the
same thing.It's about what a graduate represents (the college, its
values, and hopefully a great person as a result of that college's education).
No college would want their name attached to someone they didn't
feel represented them appropriately.
What an unintelligent story. To say the truth, It's actually quite humorous. You
people need to get a life and get REAL!
Good for BYU and good for the Church. He knew the rules when he signed up for
BYU and he violated those rules. BYU is not picking on him and he is NOT a
victim. He agreed to play by BYU's rules and then he broke those rules and got
what he deserved.
The only religious group seemingly worse are the Scientologists. Not good
I think they should just give him his diploma. He had finished his credits and
classes before this all happened. What he had to go through for 4 years and it
is all taken away. It's a tough situation though. What he did was ridiculous
labeling this calendar with missionary's from the church with no shirts. He
knew he was offending the church and what it stands for while awaiting a diploma
from a school that is owned by the church. He should of known what he signed at
admission. I don't feel sorry for him and what he did was stupid and offensive
to the LDS people. But I would of just given him his diploma, excommunicated
him and send him packing.
This very much sounds like revenge by those who feels that they have the power
to exercise. So, they think that since his "spiritual" position is
no longer within the control of the LDS church, let's take away his physical and
temporal needs also, to make sure that he fails to make a living due to his lack
of degree. This is sick on the part of BYU. All, I hear
from you herd mentality mormons are that BYU have the rights, etc, etc. For,
one thing, I doubt that the supreme court will agree, and just say with some
miraculous decision the supreme court does agree, what is the purpose of the LDS
church is taking away this guy's degree that other than to punish this guy even
further, without thinking the consequence thereof will affect his life on a
daily basis, and the life of his future wife and children???Do they
think that this is a game??? To punish a over and over again, those who have not
agreed with the church's way of life?This is extremely PETTY, very
VULGAR, and an embarrassment to the lack of professionalism that BYU has proven
itself to be.
As a relatively new arrival to Utah (and with limited knowledge of the church
that operates BYU) I am sure that there are aspects to this situation that I
don't fully comprehend, but I thought that I would chime in anyway. BYU is a
private institution and can enforce what essentially is a contract between
itself and its students as it sees fit. However, apparently many of you don't
seem to realize how petty and mean-spirited not giving this man his diploma
appears to those on the outside.
From what I understand, his last classes were independent study classes. I'm
pretty sure independent study classes have you pay up front...which was before
this whole thing with his excommunication from the church, and therefore before
the university decided to not to give him his degree.
I am tired of mormons pretending that they are perfect. You may be surprised to
know that some people go to BYU for a education and not to learn how to pretend
tha they are better than the rest of the world.If BYU wasn't going
to let him graduate, why didn't they tell him that before he paid tuition for
his last classes?
This story is stupid. It has run its course. Move on, people...there's nothing
to see here.
It's unfortunate that one individual, no matter how grievous his actions has
caused so much ruckus with so little information for the public to go on. All
seem to agree that "rules are rules", but the "go by the book" attitude has been
the downfall of many a good leader. It seems as though the authorities should
take the "high road" and put this whole thing to bed. Both parties will feel
better in the morning and the rest of us can get on with more important things
than increasing "The Deseret News" and "Salt Lake Tribune" circulations. With
comments demeaning not only the offender but the defenders as well, it is
apparent that both parties (the church and the individual have made mistakes
here, reflecting bad judgment in a case that should never have come to public
light. That's not a way to gain in membership, but only to lose it. The church
should be looking for those who strive for higher standards and offer help, not
require perfection before educating, but guidance never ending. This man has
allowed the church to demean itself by their own actions no matter how
despicable his actions, they took the bait.
All of you ya-hoos out there ready to draw blood and defame the Church and BYU
need to get a grip. It sounds to me like there is a lot more to the story about
his excommunication - which is no one's business, by the way. And if he broke
the rules, then he broke the rules. It's too bad more institutions and homes
don't stick to their outlined rules like BYU does. And by the way, the Church
doesn't follow in step with what the world feels should be acceptable or "in
touch". You are treading on dangerous ground if you accuse the Lord's Church of
extorting anyone/thing. Priesthood leaders do make mistakes, but you have no
right to judge that, especially not knowing the full situation. If they have
made a mistake, it will be made right at some point. And it is not BYU's fault
if the guy was inactive. Give me a break! How about some personal
accountability? And as for that person's slap to Justice Dept. workers under
George Bush... grow up.
Get a life.
Jesus said, For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole
world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
I think I'm going to buy a calendar.
Yes. Read some of the last 275 comments.
The answer is yes. it is called the athletic department.
Can non-LDS members go to BYU?
"Ha. If you think the tuition paid by LDS students comes anywhere close to
covering their university expenses, you haven't a clue about how things operate
at BYU."That one of the smartest, wisest comments I have seen on
here. The truth is, my tithing dollars go to fund his education, and he has an
obligation to the Church and to me to keep his word.Our society is
afraid of personal accountability. People are quick to blame others, and
rebellion has become a higher virtue than integrity. "I have been asked
what I mean by my word of honor. I will tell you. Place me behind prison walls -
walls of stone ever so high, ever so thick, reaching ever so far into the ground
- there is the possibility that in some way or another I may escape; but stand
me on the floor and draw a chalk line around me and have me give my word of
honor never to cross it. Can I get out of the circle? No. Never! I'd die
first!Karl G. Maeser." I am 24 years-old. I'm not being
Sad to see so many people jump to conclusions. Chad and BYU can work this out.
It doesn't say that he won't ever get a degree or that it will take long.
I am sorry I am so confused. What is wrong with men showing their chests? Is
that really all they showed? I must have missed the Young Women's classes where
they taught that it is a sin to show a man's chest - or for me to admire men who
take good care of their bodies. (It would be nice if more would follow their
example.) I also admire the statute of David. Should I be ex'd? Really... who
made this a sin? and when did they do it?
What some of you don't seem to get is that BYU allowed him to graduate! And
then they rescinded it. If that isn't punitive and petty, I don't know what is.
Which firm do you work for? Deloitte? Are you still looking for recruits? Just
asking because I'm a graduate accounting student. let me know.
Perhaps his credits will transfer to the UofU. I'm sure they would be happy to
grant him a degree.
As a recruiter for 15 years with the world's largest accounting firm, BYU is one
of five schools our firm targets nationally. The reason is both the exceptional
programs and the high integrity of students compared to other universities. If
someone fails to meet school requirements and BYU were to not enforce their
standards, we would be disappointed. It's why BYU is a quality school. They
set a standard, tell everyone about it, then do everything they can to encourage
and support their students to meet expectations. And yes, at times, enforcing
rules for people who egregiously disobey them.We expect students
from all universities to show integrity and meet their commitments. I applaud
BYU for following through on their due process with this student and refusing to
confer a degree until he has fulfilled all his commitments. While the standard
imposed may be different and some feel more stringent than at other
universities, that's why we have hired more students from BYU each year than
almost any other school.
This is so hypocritical, but then it is BYU. Did I say that out loud?
It is hard to believe that BYU did this...I have heard that many athletes in
other schools take on line classes from the Y because they are easily
obtained..where is the justice...give him the degree..believe me when people
interview him for a job they are not going to ask him of his worthiness..why
because it is against the law...I can not figure the church out...same with the
raise the bar...you see missionaries go out that we knowingly have not waited
thier prescripted time but the Bishop feels that it is right and other have all
this power and say this is the way it is going to be...so endure it or stay
home...why are some people so kind and gentle and others so power hungry and
mean..I can not understand
Is the term classless spelled with a capital C? The Y had better not send me
any more of those letters wanting me to donate to the cause. This is an
embarassment to the school, the community and the church. A better word would
Having taught college in several places around the nation, I can tell you that
EVERY college/university has rules about what is or is not appropriate at their
campus. Academic integrity, for example, is standard anywhere you go. If you
break those rules, you're subject to institutional sanctions. The difference
with BYU is that YOU SIGN THE DEAL UP FRONT! I'd say BYU is CLEARER about their
expectations than anywhere else I've taught. KUDOS to BYU!
Not being active will not cost anyone to get kicked out of BYU (or lose their
degree). Doing stuff that will get you excommunicated? That's another story.
And, no, despite what the anti's want you to believe, no one will EVER get
excommunicated because they choose not to attend meetings on Sunday morning.Bottom line is it's the offenses for which he was excommunicated that
caused him to fall out of good graces with the Church, and therefore, by
extension, BYU. Anti's and fools in general will rail on the LDS
church but the Lord has standards and He's not going to back down. If you love
God it's one of the things you admire about Him. If you hate God it's one of
the things you can't stand about Him. So which side of the fence
are you on?The caravan moves on....
If Chad entered the University, stating he was a member in good
standing...........the cost of the school is about half of a non-member. If he
became a member not in good standing. He should have paid twice as much for his
time there. So, he owes the University more money....and they do not owe him his
degree.....It was "earned" under false pretenses. I am the mother of 3
missionaries. Returned missionaries can be very innocent and not be able to
fully see the future repercussions of posing for these pictures. I saw the
interview with Chad. He started acting like he was all innocent in making this
calendar, then towards the end the truth snuck out....he was intentionally
making waves... Love to all......amen to 50 year old Masters Degree!!!!!
Chad - just transfer the credits to another school and get your degree after
satisfying their requirements. I wouldn't bother fighting BYU.
For all those promoting the "this guy wants to have his cake and eat it, too"
argument, and then backing it with the idea that the Church should be "in the
world but not of it," I might remind you that you're also involved in the
having/eating dilemma.BYU actively controls the content and process
of their educational system in order to maintain accreditation within the United
States. To most reasonable people, this certainly looks like BYU, and by proxy
the LDS church, is striving to be "of this world." If the controlling powers
behind the Y didn't really care about worldly education standards, they wouldn't
bother to meet them.
Rule are rules and if you don't live by them accept the consequenses. Lesson of
Petty and Vindictive.
BYU shows class by doing what they say they will do. If you don't comply to
honor code you are out. Calandar man took the slot dishonestly. Hasta la bye
bye. Enjoy the $$$. You can only spend it in this life.uncannygunman
| 8:49 p.m. Oct. 16, 2008 BYU should show some class and give this guy his
degree. Presumably lots of non-Mormons earn degrees from BYU, and they're not
LDS members in good standing!
Anonumous...get real...you can't get in to BYU. Anonymous |
8:02 p.m. Oct. 16, 2008 And this is another reason I go to UVU. I'm LDS,
but I think this is beyond stupid.
so get a degree from uvu it will mean more in the long run
I think this is absolutely ridiculous. He paid the money to go to school and
finished all of the requirements. He already got punished by being
ex-communicated. Give him his degree!!!!
"It has come to light that even non-LDS students need approval from their own
ecclesiastial churches. What if you're atheist?"The ecclesiastical
endorsement isn't about which religious beliefs you hold; it's more about
whether or not you'll abide by the honor code rules. Those rules include living
the law of chastity, living the word of wisdom, and so forth. So even if you
ARE atheist, it doesn't matter...you just can't be sleeping around or drinking
alcohol, etc.For members of the church, the endorsement goes a
little further (which makes sense because it's a church school). Members are to
go to their meetings, pay tithing, etc. (***Refer back to the post by BYU
Bishop...I think it's on page 2 or 3 of these comments).Along with
your question, if you don't have a church or religion, you can still get an
ecclesiastical endorsement from an LDS bishop, or you can get one from somebody
in the Honor Code office. Either way, it will be a short interview to reinforce
that you'll live by the honor code.Again, being atheist doesn't make
a difference, as long as you'll live by the honor code you signed.
"BYU accepted this guy and his money"Ha. If you think the tuition
paid by LDS students comes anywhere close to covering their university expenses,
you haven't a clue about how things operate at BYU.
"I find it interesting that you claim he got expelled because he was
excommunicated. Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe there are some
non-mormons that attend and have graduated from BYU."Of course there
are non-mormons that have attended and graduated. But we're talking about
members who attend. If a member of the church who attends BYU is excommunicated
from the church, he is no longer in good standing with the church and therefore
is no longer in good standing with the university. It's impossible for a member
who is excommunicated to get an ecclesiastical endorsement and therefore attend
BYU.Non-members are a different story. They're still expected to
follow the honor code and receive an ecclesiastical endorsement, whether that be
from their own pastor, an LDS bishop, or someone in the honor code office. If
they do something that precludes them from receiving an ecclesiastical
endorsement, they too will be suspended or expelled from the university until
they can get another ecclesiastical endorsement. Non-members are encouraged,
but not required, to attend their own church meetings.So, again,
there is a distinction between members and non-members who attend the
university. I was specifically talking about members.
Every university in the country withholds degrees for issues as small as parking
tickets. All the hypocrites that bad-mouth the Church for enforcing a much more
important policy than parking.My BYU degree has been worth gold
because it's MBA program is rated #1 in ethics every year. Thank you for
preserving the dignity of my degree!
Another reason to find Utah such a WEIRD place....unbelievable.How can you
take his degree that he has EARNED? Give him what he deserves. Abuse of power!
Catch up with the times of today BYU. There is a whole other world out there
and you can't control it- yes, you must go beyond the borders of Utah to see it.
Give me a break.BTW... who are you to judge? Our relationship with the
Lord is individual and so it is for HIM to do, not BYU. He earned the degree,
give it to the gentleman- he deserves it!
Saw this gentleman on TV last night. Seems like a real shister. However,BYU
accepted this guy and his money so he should have his diploma. The LDS church
and BYU powers that be, should know this all has a way of working itself out.
This young mans soul is his own responsibility. You can lead a horse to
water,but you cannot make it drink. He will probably run for President someday.
I think that is wrong what they are trying to do to this kid, You don't go to
4 years of College and not receive a diploma , but I can understand where they
are coming from, I still think that they should give him his diploma one way or
another He knows that he did wrong, but a diploma always looks nice. to tell
your kids that you have graduated from College
What most ya'll forget is BYU is a private university and can do what the board
of directors decide is the best for the school; they aren't ruled by any state
guidlines. I say good for BYU.
It is interesting to note that the only one that is blabbering about the
excommunication and the reasons behind it is the former member. The church, as
always, remains silent. For the rest of us, it is a private matter and we
should move on to more important things such has how many angels can stand on
the head of a pin.
My opinion of the LDS church and BYU has taken a nosedive, not because of the
actions of this young man, but because it has come to light that even non-LDS
students need approval from their own ecclesiastial churches. What if you're
atheist? Millions of people in America don't believe in the existance of God and
most of them have higher moral standards than the religious lot. Who approves
them? Something isn't right here.
was given my degree. I don't get why BYU didn't give him his degree. Plenty of
non-members and less-than-worthy members graduate every year. I don't care
about the excommunication, but he should have been given the degree he
earned.If I were him, I would sue the university.Prepare
BYU, this is going to get U-G-L-Y
I thought degrees were awarded for credits earned.
I have one too from the school that I'm willing to pass on. Not worth much
except a bunch of phone calls from students asking me to donate. That and an
overconfident football team that gets pasted now and again.
I also disagree with your point, but understand where you're coming from. First,
can you imagine our society without the rule of law? Forgiveness, love, and
tolerance are truly Godly principles. Let us each employ them, but don't expect
universities or governments to operate that way, rules would become pointless to
any and all evildoers. I believe that the penitent at BYU are given a second
chance, nobody seems to raise that issue. But our boy here was ex'ed and
apparently unrepentant, which is a game changing issue for a Church school.
Second, the woman taken in adultery was about to be put to death. Christ not
only taught us about forgiveness, but saved a repentant woman's life. Our boy
here is a 30-something year old man who dropped out of BYU years ago. He since
has turned his back on the Church's traditions and image, and in the throws of
this for some reason decides to take a couple classes and get his degree from
the University he couldn't stand? Forgiving him does not elevate him, or save
him. He can now live free-and-clear from the Church, and its institutions.
The 2009 version will be released soon and voila! an article about this guy hits
the news. I honestly can't believe how the Deseret News give free publicity to
this guy. I mean, any average public relations student knows there are two ways
to make advertising: paid and hitting the news. Chad is using the LDS Church
once again for his own profit. And about the degree: he SIGNED a contract
which he did break it, therefore BYU can and did take his degree. If you don't
like the way BYU operates, go apply somewhere else. Only members who pay tithing
may have an opinion about it. The rest of you who are not LDS neither pay
tithing have no business on this!
At ease people.He's getting his degree.
I just figure that if you don't want any part of the Church - that's fine - move
on.Perhaps those who can't move on - and hang around just to criticise and
ridicule are in fact still beng touched by the spirit in small ways and are
desperate to justify their position.Get real - the Church is about doing
good, following Christ, becoming the best we can be, serving others. It always
hurts when we deviate from what is clearly right.To exLDS for Christ -
it's great that you are happy - don't forget that I (and many others)am also
happy - as a current LDS for Christ. We are genuinely sad that you chose to
Who gave them this power they supposedly abuse? No one has to be a member of
the Church or attend the school. I see lots of references to the Church and the
School abusing it's power, but it is only applied to those who signed documents,
went to their own baptism. When they went under the water they knew full well
what the rules were because the Church doesn't baptise babies. I am at a loss
how anyone can accuse them of abuse of power. I'm not LDS, but I agree that
college age individuals understand fully once these decisions are made.
I find it interesting that you claim he got expelled because he was
excommunicated. Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe there are some
non-mormons that attend and have graduated from BYU.You are the one
who sounds dumb my friend by the way you react to anothers posting.
You're missing the point on forgiveness. If we forgive as you would have, there
would be no consequences for wrong choices. The Church and BYU can extend
forgiveness, but he has to seek it to receive his diploma. Look at what you're
saying here: "With this emphasis on punishing rather than forgiving
the transgressor it is no wonder that we are often viewed as not being
Christian. No amount of writing in the sand would save the woman taken in
adultery if it happened at BYU today -- the stones would be thrown with full
force."I disagree. The university is not throwing stones. They are
merely upholding the rules that the student agreed to upon enrollment at the
university. They weren't focused on punishment. I would venture a guess that
every opportunity was extended for Mr. Hardy to right his actions, but he would
have no part of it. The Church by its standards had no choice but to
excommunicate him, and BYU by it's standards had no choice but to withhold hos
diploma for violating the honor code by losing his ecclesiastical endorsement.
He made the choice. And now he has to live with the consequences.
"This is why we should not mix church and state. The LDS church should not be
allowed to take over everything."Really? Are they really taking
over everything? Is establishing your own university so you can teach the way
you want to taking over the world? Really? Take two more seconds to think
before you speak please.Re: Dave"Talk about a
dictatorship!!! Get a clue people!!"Wow Dave. Wow. Get a clue?
Really? You're so bent on accusing BYU of being in the wrong that you
completely forget that Chad was the repeat offender. "It was a
calendar of men get over it!!!!"Again, THAT'S NOT WHY HE GOT
EXPELLED!!!! How many times do we have to friggin' explain this to you people?!
He got expelled BECAUSE he was excommunicated from the Church. He was
excommunicated IN PART because of the calendar, yes, but there were other
reasons. You people are so dumb!!
Who do you think you are...or the BYU is? It is not run by administrators.
People who made this decision are insturments in the hands of God. As God
revealed, D&C 1..."Whether it be my voice, or the voice of my servants it is the
same". Ridicule of this decision will not change a thing. You outsiders have no
voice or understanding of the matter. BYU is primarily for Latter Day Saints and
they are expected to follow the counsel of their leaders. Thats it folks. That
is the way it stands. This young man has violated his baptismal covenants and
promises to God. His blessings and ability to make wise choices have gone out of
the window with his church membership. Obedience is supreme. He has the option
of repentance guided by his leaders if he so choses the church over the world.
Let him decide or face the consequences. Church membership is far more precious
that a BYU degree anyway.
To John Pack Lambert (10:33) I have no doubt they all sign the same
thing. I still think they should all receive a copy of this
newstory. I am sure it would give many of them pause - knowing about the "honor
code" is a lot different than reading about its draconian implementation. In fact, I have a friend in So Cal.... i think I will make sure he sees
Good. Hardy doesn't have a clue. He knew the rules and broke them and now he and
his feckless supporters whine and sob cuz he got caught. tough luck. He got what
he deserved. Take responsibility for your actions.
Basically, what I am hearing from many of those posting here: He signed an
agreement with a private school, violated it and should face the full
consequences. BYU needs to protect its integrity. If one person is allowed to
violate the rules without punishment then others will do the same (and thereby
make a mockery of the honor code). BYU should be admired for sticking to
principles.These are arguments befitting a New Testament era Pharisee. As a
life-long, active member of the LDS Church I am embarrassed that such sentiments
are expressed by so many. With this emphasis on punishing rather than forgiving
the transgressor it is no wonder that we are often viewed as not being
Christian. No amount of writing in the sand would save the woman taken in
adultery if it happened at BYU today -- the stones would be thrown with full
force. Let's show some charity (and common sense), turn the other cheek (per
divine mandate) and give this guy his diploma. This also is a potential
public relations nightmare -- I can just see this guy being invited by Leno or
...but your argument is still nonsense."The fact is that he paid his
tuition and completed his degree requirements BEFORE any church action was
taken."Wrong. The fact is that he DID NOT complete his requirements
before violating the Honor Code that he freely agreed to. He violated the
contract. Had he left the Church (or been ex'ed) after receiving his diploma,
BYU would not have tried to take it back. But he didn't. He broke his contract.
That's his fault, not BYU's. If you don't understand this very basic fact, then
you're incapable of rendering judgment in this (or any other) situation.
The fact was the 'young men' were photographed in their missionary garb,
including, it appeared from the photo's their name tags. The church disapproved
of this and the way it portrayed the church. I think the church has every right
to discipline Mr. Hardy. The college has every right to keep the degree from
A story like this is exactly why the Mormon Church gives the whole state a bad
reputation. It was a calendar of men get over it!!!! This is the most
ridiculous thing I have heard of in a long time.Let me just state
that I know there are a whole lot worse things that go on on and off that campus
that go undetected than something as simple as this.Talk about a
dictatorship!!! Get a clue people!!
You make a HUGE assumption by saying non-lds students aren't or haven't been in
good standing and have received their diplomas. I assure you, they are in good
standing, or are hiding their actions. Known grievances against the Honor Code
are dealt with, and I know that from circumstances of those I have known. And
it must be emphasized that we don't know the full extent of his actions which
led to his excommunication. But what he did certainly falls under the "conduct
unbecoming a member" standard, which is cited in this case. Get a gripe with
consequences from actions.
There are certain rules in the Honor Code that if broken, do substantiate
excommunication. However, because of Church policy, we will never know exactly
why he was excommunicated. But one thing is for sure: he cast a damaging light
on not only the church but its missionary operations and program, and defiling
what is sacred. "Conduct unbecoming a member of the Church". Like others
have said previously, he signed a contract with a private institution to obey
the rules and the Honor Code and he failed to do so, even after prior warning.
Don't blame the university for being "petty" and "punitive". Look at the guy
who desired a profit more than obedience.
These are the kinds of things I hate about BYU and the LDS church for that
matter. BYU and the LDS church are simply playing a game here. I
hope their team in this game is better than the one they put on the field
against TCU, but I'll bet this one is not any better prepared. Let's face it,
this is the only hold they have on him and they think they can force him to
"repent" by holding back his degree, pending his change of heart. What's next?
Will BYU cancel the degrees of everyone that graduated from there that is no
longer in good standing with the church? The fact is that he paid
his tuition and completed his degree requirements BEFORE any church action was
taken. So, you true blue's can argue all you want that the church is within it's
rights to try and squeeze him into submission. Personally, I just think they are
being vindictive and petty and that if this goes to court they will get a
whooping worse that the one TCU administered.
Are we done yet bashing anything and everything in sight? Time to move on,
people. Get a real life. Go out and do some good.
To the 9:30 comentator, You obviously have not followed The Mendenhall
Administration of the football team. He is open and up front about the honor
code. There are no attempts to hide it and no off campus recruting parties
involving sex and alchohol.
Us "viewers" are only given so little of the real facts. Some are polished some
are not. As for the diploma being withheld. That is between Brigham Young
University and Chad. I pray on Chad's behalf and the University's that they will
both find peace in their decisions. "Raising the Bar" needs NOT to be for only
current missionaries serving a formal mission. We all need to try a little
harder to be the best we can regardless of who we are, where we come from and
what we believe.
I think the 8:32 commentator hit it on the head. Actually, looking
through previous posts mentioning Hardy's attempts to recuit the anti-Mormon,
"God Makers" loving hate core for a war on BYU, I would have to say that Hardy
has been plotting this whole thing to hurt the image of the church. If
anyone has followed this story, they will see that what the church leaders
objected to was Hardy's stated purpose in making the calendar to try and chancge
the image of the church. One last thing. I do not know where some of
you people come from, but you obviously were not there in January of 2003 when
Elder Bateman specifically denounced men going around shirtless in his
devotional address at BYU.
To the one entitled: professor.Sorry, your arguement lacks merit
because it excludes an important element--the contract. The car dealer took
away your car not because he thought your looks or attitude were rather
unpleasant; he did so because you failed to pay the full price you agreed upon
that is included in the binding contract that has your signature. You didn't
keep to the terms of the agreement--it's that simple.
I'm no longer a member of the church. Will BYU try to come and take my degree
away now? Come and get it....
This is why we should not mix church and state. The LDS church should not be
allowed to take over everything. It's like the borg, only more boring. People
need to wake up!
Religions shouldn't be in the higher education business. Churches should run
seminaries, madrasahs, religious institutes, monasteries etc. "University" is a word that pertains to secular academic pursuits. Religions
have to do with faith, obedience, and tribalism. There's an orthogonal
relationship between them. For example, does it really make sense for a church
to deny entry to an enthusiastic candidate based on his limited intellectual
capacity? A capacity that isn't related to obedience or faith. Perhaps even a
limitation designed by God. This is a more important example of the hazards of
amalgamating religious and secular education - more important than the case
highlighted in this article. Harvard, Yale, University of Chicago
can be selective. But how does it make sense for a church to filter out the
incapable, but faithful?Universities provide secular credentials
that, ultimately, have meaning to potential employers. Based on the reputation
of the school, these credentials may be highly valued and sought after. But a
church shouldn't be in the business of deciding who is eligible for such
Good for BYU.
A few questions. Should a student be awarded a Masters degree if he fails, in
the end, to write a thesis? Should a student be awarded a doctorate degree if
he fails to produce an acceptable dissertation? Should a student be awarded a
bachelors degree if he fails to comply to ALL the requirements vested within the
Hmmmmmmm. We teach at my university that if you earn it, you get it. You paid
your tuition, you took the tests, you passed. To come back later and say "Ah,
hah, you sinner, give it back" is so far into the mindlessness of Fahr. 911 that
it is beyond comprehension.Let's look at from another view. I
learned how to drive a car, I bought a car, and now they have taken away the car
and the license because... because... the car dealer does not like my attitude,
my driving record, my honesty. We call that a dictatorship where I live in the
good old USA!Chad, become a Christian. They are forgiving and
loving and understanding about honesty and rules.You got hammered guy.
You got hammered.
I remember reading an article when he got exed and he basically didn't care. He
knew what the honor code was and he chose to disregard the rules. Actions have
consequences and better to learn it younger in life. I remember years ago that
a nonmember athlete was kicked out for good after violating the honor code a
second time. He seemed to think he could flaunt the rules because he wasn't a
member. Years later he said he appreciated the expulsion because it taught him
a very valuable lesson about keeping committments and honoring your word. Chad
could learn the same thing.
What a shame let's hope that somewhere down the Road Byu takes a big fall!
I think this news article should be mailed to every single prospective football
recruit - heck; to every single prospective student. Then no one
could claim they didn't know, and students would know what they were getting
into. of course, the football team might suffer.
In the adult world of which this young man will soon enter, High School excuses
aren't accepted. As a physician in the military, I have learned that the excuses
of "but nobody told me this was the rule" or "I didn't realize I could get in
trouble for that" DON'T stand in the real world. Can you imagine an
active duty military member violating the UCMJ and getting away with it because
"I didn't know that was the rule." Adults are expected to know the
rules of the organiztion or business they are a part of. Physicians
are expected to know the standard of care for patients and adhere to it.
Pleading ignorance to it reflects poorly on the physician--they aren't forgiven
because they "didn't realize".Football penalties aren't withdrawn if
a team didn't know it was the rule.He signed an agreement, and
legally and morally, BYU has every right to revoke his degree until he is again
in honorable standing with the University. They have NO OBLIGATION to award him
a University degree.
To those outraged by BYU's decision to uphold its standards: Remember, this
young man applied voluntarily to attend BYU. Before enrolling, he voluntarily
signed and agreed to the honor code as a condition of enrollment. There are many
other educational options available to those who do not want to live to BYU
standards. The withholding of the diploma is sad, but it is a consequence
brought on by this student's own choices.
Come on all you who are outraged by this, why is this so lame on BYU's part? He
agreed to BYU's rules, and then broke them. Why does everyone have such
animosity towards the Y when they enforce the rules? BYU is not the only school
with strict rules, nor the only school who enforces them. BYU is just the one
everyone loves to hate because we have those pesky "morality" rules and of
course the Church-based "faithful" rules. No, he wasn't ex'ed for
not paying tithing, that is just ridiculous. If your not a member or an inactive
member inclined to distrust the LDS and reading my comment, please don't add
such a rumor to your quiver of falsehoods about the LDS Church. You cannot, will
not, ever loose your membership for not paying tithing. There will be some
cultural pressure, yes, if you choose not to. But you will not loose your
membership. And since BYU's students are subsidized by tithe paying
members of the LDS Church like me, I say BRAVO to BYU for sacking this moron.
His calendars will eventually become non-chic, and he'll no longer have this
publicity to sell more crap.
Students who attend BYU enjoy lower tuition because of tithing from active
church members. It is not unreasonable to expect students who are able to take
advantage of this benefit to live the honor code and be in good standing when
they graduate.Just as many posters here have stated NONE OF US know
the history or background of Chad's excommunication. If he publishes his side -
remember that is only HIS side! Personally, when I saw the calendar
in Calif. I was disappointed that active return missionaries would make a
mockery of their service by posing for this calendar. I would be interested to
know if any of these young men regret their decision.BYU you have my
Everyone is forgetting the obvious facts. Chad himself stated he went to BYU
(FYI he served a mission in California in the early 90's, this guy is not a
current student living in Provo, he is in his 30's) for a few years and then
left because he couldn't stand it and moved to Nevada where he has been working
as an "entreprenuer" for many years. I imagine this guy took 2 remaining
religion classes through continuing education (on the Internet) which does not
require an ecclesiastical endorsement after he had left the Church (hasn't been
active in 6 years) and after his excommunication in an effort to gain further
publicity either by 1) getting a degree from BYU after being ex'd or 2) knowing
they would figure it out and withhold the degree from him. If all he lacked was
2 religion credits for a degree, he could easily do those online in a matter of
weeks. He was not going to BYU for the past 4 years, he did this as a publicity
stunt and BYU took option 2 and called him on it.
Very, very glad to hear your kids won't be going to BYU on your dime. That much
less competition for those who actually value a BYU education. Thanks!
Wow. I'm glad I never went to BYU.
"The Provo Daily Herald revealed that one of the reasons for being ex-d was him
not paying tithing (on the calender sales?). Can anybody confirm the Herald's
tidbit?"Puh-leez. No one gets ex'ed for not paying tithing. No
one.When this guy signed up for BYU, he agreed to certain terms.
Then he failed to keep the terms. He broke the contract, not BYU. Good for BYU
for not giving him the diploma he doesn't deserve.I, too, hope he
gets a lawyer and sues. That way, the courts will tell him that he's a two-time
Time to start talking to my kids now... I've made my decision, they can choose
BYU, but if they do then they will go without my $$$ paying or backing them in
anyway. No way would I support this type of bulling from our own church!
How do all the idiots on here know if he was excommunicated or kicked out of BYU
for the calendar? Nice convenient leap of logic for you to bash BYU and LDS.
Problem is you have no ground to stand on.
Step back for a moment. Being excommunicated brought his calender into the
national spotlight. His sales went through the ceiling. This came at
the time his business needed more notoriety. This will be his second home run
off the same issue. What ever he lost, not getting his degree with
be more than offset by the inflowing dollars. He could start selling a new line
of "Banished from BYU" T-shirts.
BYU is really really wrong (again). 4 years hard work and no degree all because
of some guys without shirts.
Excommunication and pulling a degree? Somebody either needs to get control of
these mid-level leaders and correct their judgments or something is wrong with
our Church. Seriously, this was not porn, this was all in good
taste and good fun
The scary thing is that this decision actually makes sense to someone.I am so glad my five Mormon boys chose to go elsewhere.
He wasn't kicked out of the university because he took pictures of guys with
their shirts off. He was kicked out of the university because he was
excommunicated from the church. I'm sure the calendar was one of many reasons
he was excommunicated, but we don't know the full details of his
excommunication.So, back to your argument, you're correct in
assuming that the honor code does not explicitly say you can't take pictures of
guys with their shirts off. But again, that wasn't why he was kicked out in the
Sure he's free to do what he wants. But for some reason, people believe FREEDOM
means: Do whatever you want. Freedom actually mean: Do whatever you want and be
prepared for the consequences that follow.Way to go, BYU.
OK, someone has gone through four years of school, and they get caught cheating
on their most important final, do they look the other way and give them the
degree? Or what if instead, that student was caught robbing the bookstore, does
he get his degree? What if that student rapes another student on campus, will
they look the other way and hand out the diploma? Come on folks, we should
never hold back a diploma, give them to them if they cheat, steal or rape. This
guy has cheated, stolen and raped BYU, he does not deserve a diploma.
John have you ever hard of the word perseverate? it applies to you very well.
I really don't care so much about what BYU did or didn't do. I think most of
the posters here don't even have close to all the facts. What does jump to the
front though is the insulting nature of some of the comments by members in good
standing towards those who have a different opinion. Calling them ignorant,
stupid.... what ever. Real christian like behavior being demonstrated here
folks. This case does not validate or impugn the church, we need to remember
that while it may be the "true" church, it is run by real men that are just as
prone to human level mistakes or lapses in judgement. I am not saying that is
what happened here. But not everything BYU does is perfect, because it is
simply run by people. It is not infallible nor perfect, and when it errors, it
doesn't prove or disprove the church. So remember when you write
here shines not on just your ego, but on a whole group of people. You can
respectfully disagree without degrading those you are debating with. If you are
a good standing member, you will give both sides the benefit of the doubt.
To Mr. Jones, I think you ignore the fact that it is the students
removed and not BYU that publicizes these developments. In the issue of
coaches, I think you are overly sensitive. They did not remove coaches during
the season, so I am not sure why you have such an issue with it. The case
of the student who left BYU over his run-in with the law during an anti-war
protest is quite illuminating. He went to the news media before he ever went to
the honor code office, seeking as much publicity as possible. Beyond this, if
he had been willing to work on a long term plan he could have returned to BYU,
but he decided he prefered to break the law than stay at the university.
The basic problem with this as well as many other cases is that while BYU does
its best to respect the privacy and keep these incidents low key, the people
involved do not, but seek every chance to contact the media and get more
show me in the honor code where you have to wear shirts? Show me in the honor
code where you can't take a picture of men without shirts.
You're a dork. Grow up.
To the 4:29 commentator, Your analogy is really good. I am not 100%
sure that the person would be denied graduation, but I very much think he
would. Considering how much of the tuition of BYU students is paid for
from tithing money that is a really good analogy. People who think BYU is
espensive have a very limited knowledge of public univesities which normally
charge more. As an instate student at Wayne State University in Michigan I paid
about twice the tuition I had paid at BYU, and these were both as an
undergrad. Last of all, people forget that Mr. Hardy attended BYU as an
LDS student and so got the much lower tuition that comes with such.
However, as I have said multiple times, the only way this whole story makes
sense is if Mr. Hardy has been an independent study student for some time.
Get the facts Jack--the man was not excommunicated for the calendar, he asked to
be out and the churches complaint was about his use of missionary name tags in
the calendar. The church, or any organization has the right to control its own
property, intellectual or otherwise and to eject a person who infringes upon
them. It is standard practice in business, i.e non compete contracts and duties
of loyalty. This is not a novel approach fro BYU or the church. If you want to
be part of the club, follow the rules. If you do not want to follow the rules
don't join the club. If he had not used the name tags or the other information
representing the church he wouldn't have been ousted. Since BYU is a private
school and not subject to constitutional protection of his "property right to
continued enrollment and matriculation" he will not win any potential lawsuit,
The 3:27 commentator obviously does not understand walking with your class. At Wayne State you can walk in the May graduation if you are going to
graduate the following August, and I know of other schools that do it this way.
However, there is a possibility that you will not actually complete your degree
requirements by then. Walking does not gaurantee you a degree. They are
independent processes. Maybe it should, but it is easier to not have to screen
each of the 2000 plus people who are about to walk.
To the 3:20 commentator, However BYU does not have a June graduation of
any kind. You do not recieve your degree dated in June but in August. You must
be in good standing with the honor code at the time you recieve your degree. He
was excommunicated in July so in August he was not in good standing with the
honor code. Thus he was inelligable to recieve a degree. Once you have
recieved your degree from BYU you are not required to live the honor code.
However, Mr. Hardy was excomunicated before he recieved the degree. BYU's
policies are very clear on this issue. This is not arbitrary, but
Really people typing words in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS does not make your point any
stronger it only makes you look silly.
you can't attend school there if you're a member, if you're not in good
standing. If you're not a member at all, it's quite different... I
did some time off myself for such reasons, finished when I was. If you're not
in good standing and they hadn't made an allowance for him to complete academics
off campus for the term in progress (something that HAS been done before...) -
they were right to take their action. It's a private school, if he didn't
qualify - he can transfer the credits somewhere else. Someone
asked about not paying tithing and excommunication - it's not grounds but might
be brought up in a disciplinary council as a sign of lack of fulfilling
membership expectations but it's not grounds for excommunication at all.
The scuttle is that his excommunication had nothing to do with the calendar.
I am glad you have found happiness in the way that is best for you. But to call
followers of BYU & the Church vacuous makes you sound jealous & foolish.
Chad should sue the university. I think he'd have a GREAT chance of winning and
it would teach BYU a much needed lesson. I love BYU, but these types of
cold-hearted and perhaps illegal dismissals of students, professors, and coaches
are becoming far too common. aDon't give me the "tough love" stuff. This is the
type of action that will permanently damage this young man and perhaps turn him
off forever to the LDS Church. I see smallness not wisdom in BYU's decision.
To make a long story short; 1 - My first reaction is that this seems impossible,
2 - Makes my BYU degree seem almost worthless.
I love BYU and the LDS Church to death, but this this is absolutely the WRONG
decision. If the young man has completed the academic requirements to qualify
for his degree, then he deserves his degree. Looking for a backdoor way to
disqualify him so that he can't claim to have a BYU degree is a snippy if not
downright un-Christian way to behave. I'm a proud BYU grad, but I
have been EXTREMELY disappointed at the way BYU has handled the dismissal of
students and athletic coaches over the last several years. The thing that
concerns me most is that there seems to be little regard for the emotional and
spiritual well being of those they are disciplining. It's a shame really,
because what it does is create very negative feelings in the individuals
involved, dramatically reducing the likelihood that these people will grow
positively or will have a positive attitude toward the LDS Church going forward.
Another bad move BYU....
but just not bright. BYU certainly can justify this action but it makes the LDS
Church look vindictive, gives this guy additional publicity and could provide
more fodder for unfavorable late-night TV jokes and internet blogs. They should
make the campus off-limits to him and mail him his diploma (I say this as
someone who kept his nose clean enough during my days in Provo to acquire two
Wow, a lot of people here who think BYU has no legal basis for withholding this
guy's degree. I just have one question for you people...Could you
loan me some money?I promise to pay it back! Honest! On my
HONOR!I kinda hope the guy does file a lawsuit, so we can put this
to rest. Trouble is, there's not a lawyer in the country that would take his
Dear Anonymous. It's excommunicated. Where did you get your degree? The
cracker jack box? What a Bozo.
The honor code at BYU is apparently very strict. The honor system holds true in
the Church also and is just as strict with honorable men and women. Without
honor we are relagated back to animal behavior. It is a shame that this
individual has sought to bring out the revelations that HE wanted revealed and
not the whole Church. The Church is an entity that owns the school but does not
control the school. There are officials that govern the school the same as
other fine schools in the nation. BYU is not a mail order catalog type of
school but has a fine reputation in the nation as do other schools.The
military academies graduate some of the finest graduates in the world and are
thus respected. Although I don't know all the graduates of the academies, I am
sure there are some that have changed their opinions after they got in the world
and were influenced by those that don't respect the freedom that we are blessed
with in this country. The academies also have very strict honor codes that are
adhered to in all cases. Some probably slip by but most don't.GOD bless
I was a life long Mormon and went on a mission to France and Switzerland. I
graduated from BYU and have hated the church and school ever since. They are
totally mindless and intellectually shallow organizations populated by a vacuous
group of followers. Since left that mindset behind, I have been happy ever
Good point. Aren't military laws simply rules that are used to guide our
troops? Why are THEY held to a higher law?Again, BYU is a PRIVATE
institution, and therefore entitled to make their own rules and administration
policies. This is not a public university, and therefore is not held to the
same standard as public universities. If this were to happen at a public
university, I agree that he would have a very strong case. But this is a
PRIVATE university.Make sure that distinction sinks in deep!
If anything, the Church should be suing Chad for libel, a subset of
defamation.The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts of
slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel
(harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture,
sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of
action.Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental
distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the
defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some
fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the
like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example
in written words, film, compact disc, DVD, blogging and the like, then it is
considered libel.Chad really has no basis for suing the Church or
BYU, and should thank his lucky stars that the Church isn't suing HIM for
dragging this issue through the mud. He's made a mockery of the Church and a
mockery of missionaries, a very real and tangible figure that represents the
If a cadet at the U.S. Military Academy (West Point) had completed all of his
credit hours and other requirements for graduation, and the day before he was to
graduate and be commissioned into the Army he joined in an anti-war rally in his
cadet uniform and spoke harshly against the United States on national
television, would you criticize West Point for not allowing him to graduate the
next day? Would you argue that since he completed his credit hours
and other requirements he should be allowed to graduate? Would you
argue that West Point has no authority to enforce its own moral standards on its
cadets if they've completed the program but not yet graduated? And,
is that any different than what BYU did to this guy?
When I went to BYU years ago I remember signing an honor code. In life we sign
these 'honor codes' for many things. Rental contracts, buying a home, etc.
That is being a grown up and being responsible. If he did not want to live by
the honor code then why did he even go to BYU? I think we need to ask why he
stole someones place for 6 years.
"If taking pictures for a calendar where men are without their shirts is
offensive and can get a student stripped of his diploma then I guess the Mormon
church really is above the law when it comes to the Constitution of the United
States. What happened to freedom of speech?"The Constitution of the
United States PROVIDES for limits on freedom of speech in private domains.
Freedom of speech is enforceable in public areas, not private. That's how BYU
was able to arrest the Soulforce protesters last year. That's the entire reason
BYU is private, not public. There's a big difference.Because BYU is
a private institution, it can make its own rules and punishments for breaking
those rules. Repeat after me: BYU IS A PRIVATE INSTITUTION, NOT A PUBLIC
DOMAIN.I don't have any right to "do as I please" on their property
any more than I have the right to break into my neighbors house. Both are
considered PRIVATE. It's PRIVATE property. It's a PRIVATE institution. The
laws and constitution of this land protect PRIVATELY held areas.Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can go around saying whatever you
want...ever heard of "slander" or "libel"?
No I don't have the facts. I'm not judging this guy for what he did, I'm judging
the Y. To not give a guy his diploma is crazy!!!!
I agree...that degree was earned whether or not he is in good standing with the
church or not. I'm sure there are some non-lds who haven't been in good
standing when they graduated and they still earned their degree. Just because
he made a calendar and it was in the media what he did is the only reason this
is an issue. If he hadn't made the calendar and made the church look bad it
wouldn't be an issue!
If I had a credit card and didn't follow the terms I'd agreed on to get it, I
would expect either a fine or to lose the card. This situation is similar. What
did the calendar's creator think would happen? Did he think church members would
be proud of a publication that mocked their beliefs and cheapened the idea of
what a missionary it? Why does he think church members are out of line when they
honor and try to safeguard their religion and culture? Does anyone react
differently to this kind of treatment? He holds church members to a higher
standard than he does himself. Clearly he was making a statement, testing what
he perceives as unreasonable "rules" and looking for some kind of publicity to
expose his own agenda. Good for him, but good for me, too, for speaking out
against these actions. I am a church member who tries every day to live a better
life, to help people, and to stand for something good. I'm proud of my church
membership, my relationship with God, my BYU degree, my son who is on a mission,
and my belief in the Savior's atoning grace. Why attack this?
Ben - He was excommunicated for not obeying the honor code? Does the church
excommunicate every person who disobeys the honor code AT BYU?Chad
earned every credit he got from BYU. He earned enough credits to graduate.
BYU's withholding of his diploma is petty and punitive.
People need to understand one thing: his diploma was not withheld solely on the
fact he wasn't active. You don't have to be active to obey the honor code.
That is how non-members come to BYU and graduate without problem; it is how
homosexuals can graduate. If they live by the honor code, and do not practice
that which is against it, then they will be ok. The fact that this guy wasn't
active isn't the issue. It was that he didn't obey the honor code, and was
excommunicated. This isn't a hard thing to understand, and I gather that a lot
of the naysayers are naysayers because they couldn't live up to those standards.
Jealousy perhaps? Get a grip with the real issue and not with petty ones.
Every LDS BYU student has to be in good standing to continue at the University.
Yes the enforcement of this is not always uniform, but it is something every
student is informed of when they attend.This guy had to of known he
was taking this chance when he made the calendar. I do think BYU is kind of
silly sometimes in enforcing this rules, but I don't feel sorry for the guy.
Nobody forced him to go to BYU and nobody forced him to sign the honor code that
all BYU students have to sign.
If taking pictures for a calendar where men are without their shirts is
offensive and can get a student striped of his diploma then I guess the Morman
church really is above the law when it comes to the Constitution of the United
States. What happened to freedom of speech. A shirtless man is certainly not
considered pornographic. So what is the big deal?
Lets think about this!!It looks like there are about "two real
opinions" here:1) You either disagree with the "church" and the
University for "standing for something". (If you feel this way and are a member,
shame on you. Get some back bone. We all know more is going on here!! If you
are not a member more research on the church would help you out.) The Church is
more than fair in how they deal with PUNKS like this.Or 2) You agree with the church and the University and you "Stand for something".
Good for you. (You realize that this guy is digging his OWN grave.) How anyone can feel sorry for this guy is Laughable. Who is he? Why should he
get special treatment...?RULES ARE RULES. Hypothetically, if this
was a criminal act, and he was guilty, and the law was coming down on him would
be all be so quick to excuse his "Poor Judgment" in not following rules.NO!! Don't be silly.It is shameful and disappointing to see
how many members are selling out because of someone who is CLEARLY Playing
games. HE MADE HIS CHOICE - DONE!NEXT TOPIC PLEASE!!
Shame on BYU. I hope Chad takes them to court. They took four years of money
from Chad in the form of government grants and loans and are now withholding a
diploma and credits he has rightfully earned. Because they excommunicated him
for being inactive? I hope BYU is found to be fraudulent for the monetary
aspect of this.The church exed him in July. BYU let him walk with
his graduation class in August. They did not inform him he was ineligible until
the end of September. That means that the academic advisory department did not
know that Chad was not eligible at the time he graduated although their letter
to him states they knew he was inelible beforehand. BYU is lying and trying to
cover their tracks.And being excommunicated for being inactive? I
hope the church shows a little consistency here and excommunicates 60% of their
congregation for being inactive.
I like Chad's idea so much I've decided to create a calendar called Nuns in
Bikinis! It won't be topples or pornagraphic or anything, just hot scantally
clad women of the cloth...Gee whiz... Notre Dame won't give me the
degree I earned becasue I won't stop making the calendar or apologize. WHAAAAAA, WHAAAAAAAAA, WHAAAAAA!
"BYU needs to wake up and get with the 21st century."What century is
that? The one where everyone is taking there clothes off and being rewarded for
it?"This is just another example of the church and BYU living in
their own world without a clue in the dark ages."Let me help you
with that last one. "This is another example of the church and BYU living in the
light as the world slips into the dark ages."Here is another
controversial story. Once there was a rich young ruler that wanted to know what
he needed to do to keep the commandments. Jesus said keep the commandments. He
replied that he had from his youth up. Then Jesus told him that he lacked one
thing, "Sell all that thou hast and give to the poor and come follow me". The
young man went away sorrowing. WHAT! He had done everything except for one
little thing? How discriminatory. Bash the church all you want but
the church is not interested in fitting in with anyone except for God. This
young man lacked one thing, he loved his calendar more than his membership, and
in this case his degree.
WOW!!!I decided to do some research for a college English paper on
sports and the whole BYU controversy of national recognition and ranking. This
is one of the papers I chose to use as research. I cannot describe
how shocking the attitudes are in the comments sections of this newspaper. It
is not just this article either.I don't fully understand the subtle
messages here, but It appears as if Utah has a culture limited by two
labels--Mormons and Not-Mormons and both sides would keep me from ever visiting
your state of Utah.I have never seen two groups of people with such
closed minds and small intellect. Even with our soiled past, I will take the
culture of the South any day over what I have read here today. You
should make a flag so others know to steer clear...
Chad is probably selling many more calendars because of this publicity. As a
private institution BYU can do anything they want. Who knows what administrator
denied the man his degree and who made the call on this issue? The facts allude
all of us, but this guy is an idiot and I think BYU did the right thing.
The Provo Daily Herald revealed that one of the reasons for being ex-d was him
not paying tithing (on the calender sales?). Can anybody confirm the Herald's
tidbit? Also it seems that he completed his work in June was x-d in July and
Walked "graduated" in August. I seems to me that this is an ex-post recision of
his degree. Also readers when do you think the BYU code of honor requirement
terminates? Here it seems between finals and having the diploma mailed. If the honor code contract is open-ended could BYU theoretically go
after the recent BYU alum who worked in Bush's AG's office for getting some
Federal prosecutors fired? Also the Anti-Prop 8 BYU Alums in Calif. could they
be at risk? DUDE GET A GOOD LAWYER!!!!
yes, rules are rules(unless you can run a 4.4 40, or are 7' tall)
Blah Blah Blah. He signed the contract and knew the requirements. LDS or not,
he knew his cute stunt would cost him his standing with BYU and therefore his
degree. If you don't like the rules, nobody's forcing you to go to BYU.
Frankly, this is why I went to the U!
This guy only needs to show up to the entrance of Hollywood with this article in
hand and show it to all those non God fearing actors. He will be carried on
their backs as a hero and hired on the spot. He should thank BYU for the
publisity and sing all the way to the bank!
As an instructor I have had to fail students who do not live up to course
requirements. Sometimes these students have to extend their degrees by extra
semesters which they don't have money to pay for. Let me tell you, it is
painful, very painful. But, it would be dishonest to both these students, their
peers and their future employers had I stated they had done something they had
not. I realize that this issue is not academic, but as has been previously
noted, part of the aims of a BYU education are spiritual. Possession of a BYU
degree means, at the time the degree was given, the student met those
requirements. Those who are familiar with the LDS discipline system
know that it is focused on determining the heart and motives of an individual. I
expect that the decision was made after much deliberation and consideration of
not only public actions but other things we may not know about. It is
unfortunate, but I think we have to remember that.(Oh, and that
"diploma mill" somehow managed to provide me with an excellent preparation for a
top-10 graduate program, funny how that worked.)
BYU awards an honorary Doctor's degree to Richard Chaney who will go down in
history as one of the worst elected officials in our nation's history, but
revokes a degree from a student for practicing something covered by the Bill of
Rights. Only in Utah is all I can say.
I guess this individual accomplished what he intended to do..drag the church
through the mud and the media. I doubt Chad got excommunicated for not paying
his tithing, etc. As a member of the church we are held to higher standards.
It's an individual choice, not a consequence, to live these high standards.Bravo to BYU for yanking his diploma!
"Acts like this are starting to define the Monson era."Sounds like
you have a hidden wedge or you wouldn't make sweeping statements like this.
To the 9:44 commentator, Mr. Hardy has been living in Las Vegas for
some time. It seems most likely that he was attending online classes.
There is not much supervision of the worthiness of independent study students.
They do not need eccesiastical endorsement. However to recieve a degree
from BYU you must have good standing with the church. In this case, if Mr.
Hardy had never been a member of the church, short of actually being in prison
he could have recieved his degree. However, as a former member of the church he
is disbared from recieving a degree. The problem with a lot of the
commentators on here is they have made unwaranted assumptions. Mr. Hardy has
not been in a class on BYU campus for many years.
I too am a BYU alum who is not practicing his religion. Do they want MY degree
back? At least I played the game (and my tithing) for a long time. If you pay
your tuition, who are they to hold back a degree? They'll take his money, but
not hold to their end of the contract? Hmmmm. His moral violation is greater
than theirs? Scribes, pharisees, HYPOCRITES!
You don't have to be LDS to attend BYU. I am not nor have I ever been a student
at BYU, but if there is an honor code at the school which requires you to live
up to their standards, then the school has full right to place a hold on the
diploma of any person who breaks their code. It is just like cheating at any
other school. I wish my fellow non-mormons would realize that you don't have to
like a religion, but their is no reason to insult a church over something like
I am sorry if i miss understood you but that is the way your post came across
when I read it, just for a little feedback.
You have got to be joking?! This makes you embarassed? Good luck in the things
that lie ahead!
If you broke the rules at the U of U, you wouldn't get your diploma either. I
know, I got kicked out of the U of U twice for rules violatio,I
understand why I didn't get a diploma from the U.I got mine from
CSUSB wher I did what they asked.Simple.
Chad did not "earn" his degree by simply doing the class work and assignments.
Anyone who goes to BYU understands there is much more than just making the
grade. Anyone, like Chad, who signs the Honor Code, and only completes the
class work but fails to live up to the Standards they agreed to, suffers the
possibility of not "getting" their degree. Why do so many of you think that he
"earned" his degree when he openly admitted to not keeping the church and school
standards?Not only did he not earn his degree by not living up to
what he agreed to do, he has not "earned" my respect. As a returned missionary,
I find his actions disrespectful.
It's BYU. Everyone is aware that it is a church school. Part of the graduation
requirements include the honor code, being in good standing, taking religion
classes, etc. Every student that enters is aware of the requirements.The guy didn't meet the requirements. NO DEGREE! Not from BYU at least. I'm
sure that if he gains his membership back in the church he can get his degree
from BYU. Otherwise, I would suggest that he just transfer his credits to
another university and get awarded a degree from that university. I'm sure that
he really doesn't want BYU on his certificate anyway.
He should get his degree if he passed his courses. What he shouldn't
get is participation in ceremonies and perhaps not be allowed to be involved in
Alumnae groups if is doing something contrary to the school. He'd
have to take 90 credits to get a degree from another school and that takes both
time and money. If he were to seek forgiveness in this would he get
it from the Church or the school?
BYU isn't a real university - it's a religious diploma mill. A BYU degree isn't
worth the paper it is printed on.
I think it is great! There can be a cost to being disrespectful. I went USU
but I respect what BYU stands for. They don't need to be mocked by guys like
this. They mock my work as a missionary. I don't feel bad one bit for this
Seems like he should get his degree if he earned it.
I'm a proud graduate of the U of U and wanted to say kudos to the BYU
administration for holding their ground on this issue. Thank heavens they don't
change because the world changes.
If you don't like it, start your own university. This one's taken, and they'll
do things their way.Settle your own frontier. Build your own city,
no matter how many times you get run out of it by a mob. Then, after you've had
friends murdered, pillaged, violated, robbed of millions of dollars of property,
and driven into the wilderness repeatedly, your complaints will sound like
something more than sour grapes.Again, if you don't like it, start
your own university.
I repeat:DON'T. MESS. WITH. THE. MISSIONARIES.I read the
article about the calendar. I tried to find humor in it. I tried to laugh it
off with an open mind. I just could not.As a former missionary
myself, and as the mother of a son and daughter who I hope will choose to serve,
I am gratified to see that retribution is swift and severe for those who harm
the missionaries--in any way. They are on the Lord's errand. They
are "set apart" from a world that, wonderful as it is, can sometimes be
dangerous or seedy. Let's not drag them back into it. (Yeah, I
know, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, etc. To quote one of my favorite
columnists, "What a load of cr-p." The mother bear in me can't help but snarl:
keep your paws off the Elders and Sisters.)[Whew! I
proofed this three times and found three typos before I clicked. That's one
more thing I can quit feeling so sanctimonious about.]
Thank you for your post. Good to see that you are still aroundfrom: Hawaii
Fan still laughing
I didn't know they could even DO that! If he completed all the required or
assigned work, he earned a diploma. How can they deny or revoke that?? This
guy spent at least four years working and studying, and the last month before
graduation he gets it taken away? Unbelieveable!
This whole issue boils down to timing. Had BYU expelled Hardy at the time of
his excommunication, I don't think there would be any controversy here. The
problem is that the University allowed him to finish up his current coursework,
walk at commencement, and then they refused to grant his Diploma.Reading the article from back in July, it is clear that Hardy has not been
involved in the Church or living the Honor Code for quite some time. BYU had
its chance to deal with this problem anytime over the last six years; to
continue to collect tuition, and wait until after his graduation, allow him to
"walk", and then to deny his diploma is just petty and wrong.Give
the guy his diploma, and wash your hands of him. Don't continue to give him
This makes me seriously, seriously embarrassed to be a Mormon. This is why
'normal' people hate us. The self-righteous attitude of BYU and most of its
students is beyond a joke. The bottom line is this: the man paid money (way too
much money to attend a school like BYU in my opinion), did his homework, and
passed his classes. He EARNED a degree. BYU continues to be an embarrassment to
the state of Utah and the rationally thinking people in it. Sad, sad, sad. The
guy put together a calendar of guys with their shirts off and he gets
excommunicated? Then has his degree held ransom by BYU? Get real.
I wonder what happened to the returned missionaries who were featured in the
calendar? Did they get kicked out of the church too? I think this is a little
extreme! This is why we need separation of church and state. It's ridiculous!!!!
I would appeal to every person possible. The university needs to get over it.
Times change and people make mistakes. Taking away someone's degree after
they've finished all the requirements is stupid and a little overreactive!
Take my advice. Money talks. Get a lawyer and sue BYU for reimbursement of your
tuition and associated costs along with any pain or suffering they have
inflicted on you in this case. They will most likely settle out of court to
avoid any negative publicity.
Petty Petty People ..
Just one more reason why I will not fund any part of my children's education if
they choose to go to Breed'm Young University.
Althought I disagree with the decision, the bottom line is this guys is an
Are you kidding me? They won't give him his degree??? ... even after he's
earned it? I'm a member of the church and a BYU alum and I don't agree with
what he did, but that's rediculous. BYU and the church should be ashamed.
You are correct...education is not the top priority at BYU. That is why it is
not a school for everyone, only for those who want to go to a university with a
strict honor code and develop themselves first as an upstanding and honorable
person. Education is secondary to that and in my opinion, that is the correct
priority.Has anyone noticed that we are now moving into a time when
the luke warm are getting spewed out of the mouth? No more fence sitting. There
is an intellectual and emotional division happening in America and also in the
LDS Church. Isaiah prophesied that this would happen. Watch over the next year
as people divide themselves into those who follow the prophet, and those who
pick and choose when to do that.
The majority of former or current fellow Bishops at BYU that I know DO NOT
report confessions to the honor code office. Repentance is a personal process
between you and the Lord. Those Bishops who do report their ward members find
that soon their Wednesday evenings (or other interview times) are suddenly very
open making them unable to assist repentance. This young man did something
public making it much more difficult on himself. But had he come to me with
other personal concerns I would not have reported him in any way and most other
Bishops would not have either imo. This integrity goes to Stake Presidents and
High Councils here as well who tend not to even report serious disciplinary
outcomes to the honor code office. There may be a request that the student
member take some time off from school as part of the repentance process but
rarely are the transgressions reported in fear it may derail the student's
education or even block tranfer of credits. This has been a source of
frustration for BYU as an institution but they have to understand that most
Bishops place the integrity and responsibility of their office above BYU
Rude behaviors - In no way did my comment suggest to others how they should act
if they don't believe in the church. I was merely referring to Chad's direct
request to a group of individuals on a blog who openly defy and criticize the
church. In the post I referred to, Chad not only requested a letter writing
campain, but suggested that he was going to stir up the media. He is not
interested in getting a degree, he is interested in war and stirring up the
hearts of men to anger. It was God who "Excommunicated" Adam for
his transgression in the Garden of Eden, not as a punishment, but so that he
could have time to repent so he could return to God clean. In the end, it won't
matter if Chad gets his degree from BYU or not. In the end it will matter to
whom his heart belongs.
This reeks of collusion and secrecy at the Y. If the young man earned his
degree, he earned his degree. This will bring MORE negative publicity to the
secrecy of the LDS organization. He didn't sell the church "fake" historical
documents. Do what's right and get in the lime light for the right reason.
I like to think of BYU as a top tier educational institution. But it makes one
wonder when it so blatantly places conformity above educational considerations
in cases like this, the recent dismissal of Jeffrey Nielson from the Philosophy
department, and the loss of Brian Evanson to Brown. Is education really BYU's
top priority? Maybe not.
I cannot believe this, I really can't.No wonder why people look at BYU as
lame, they truly are.This guy made a calendar, it is not that big of
a deal.I know that men with their shirts off tends to make people in Provo
Blush, but it is not a big deal.Thanks for the great Laugh BYU, too
bad someone cannot get their deserved degree because of it.
"This man should be happy about his name being removed from an institution that
is supposed to preach the unconditional love of Christ."The
"unconditional love of Christ" argument is kind of weak...you're trying to use
it as a trump card to make it look like we don't practice what we preach. You
know, we're one of the last institutions on earth to really stand up for what we
believe in. If he wants a degree, more power to him...but not at a University
run by a Church that he blatantly makes a mockery of.
If he had been inactive in Church for past 6 years, how was he allowed to attend
BYU since each year his Bishop has to attest to his "good standing" status?
I doubt it's the Church. It's more than likely someone in administration at BYU.
BYU is following its own rules. One of the requirements for graduation is to be
in good standing with the university. This man was not in good standing with
the university and should not receive a degree from BYU until he meets the
university's requirements for graduation.I am happy to be a graduate
of BYU, a university that follows its rules. BYU has made the correct choice to
follow its own rules rather than worry about its image.
Too many are blaming BYU for Chad's decisions to not live up to the Honor Code.
Chad has only himself to blame. Why should BYU award him a degree when he
openly said that his lifestyle is not in line with the teachings of the Church
and BYU standards? He used the media to bring attention to himself and tried to
make the LDS church look like the non-sympathetic party.I earned my
degree and didn't openly disobey the Honor Code or go behind the back of the
administration while accepting my diploma. Whether there are individuals who
lie about keeping the Honor Code while accepting their diploma is not the issue.
They ultimately hurt themselves.
Way to go BYU!!! awesome!! This dude does not deserve a diploma for what he has
done. He should have gone to UofU if he wanted to do something so stupid. He
knew the rules, he chose to break them.
That is awful. I am embarrassed to hold a BYU degree when I hear this sort of
silliness. Give the man the degree he earned and get over it, BYU.
To Ute Student and other anti-BYU posters: Your ignorance and lack of
understanding of common knowledge is embarrassing. Reading your posts is like
listening to nails being scratched across a blackboard. I hope if you still
feel the need to burden this comment board with your pitiful comments you should
at least attempt to sound like you know what you are talking about instead of
spouting out your thoughts before you had time to process and think them
through. Also, it might help if you were to keep up with the comments. Your
lack of understanding on this subject would be greatly helped. Bottom line - BYU had every right to do what they did. Dont expect them to
conform to your low standards. Just because you have found reasons to justify
your lack of integrity doesnt mean everyone else is content with being so
immoral. By the way, Im a hard-core Ute fan and looking forward to
The Honor Code is no secret. Everyone who attends BYU signs it, yet when they
violate it they get mad and it's the University's or ususally, the Church's
fault. It's just ridiculous the amount of people who try to pile on without
anymore information than a local reporter writes about. Settle down and
remember everybody goes into BYU knowing exactly what they are signing up for.
This man should be happy about his name being removed from an institution that
is supposed to preach the unconditional love of Christ, but if something is
different in what they say is right (Because supposedly God tells this guy they
call a prophet what to do) then it is wrong. Newsflash, not everyone believes
the same as you, but whatever.
I feel sorry for church members who feel they can no longer associate with the
LDS faith because our leaders make a stand against unethical or immoral
behavior. Isn't that why we have leaders, though?When it comes down
to it, members need to evaluate the strength of their testimony rather than the
daily negativisms that come with living one's faith.
He broke his word, they exercised their right as a private institution to
withhold his diploma. He signed a contract, he flagrantly broke it, and now he's
paying the consequences. I can't believe that people are upset that BYU is
keeping their word! Whether or not you agree with the Honor Code, they are at
least following their own rules.
How lame. Is it any wonder why the American Association of University Professor
have sanctioned BYU for decades for lack of academic freedom. Have some class
and grant the young man his degree.
Does anyone realize how many students get their degree every year and have not
come close to living the honor code? Chad's mistake was just public. I support the Church and BYU's decisions as they have that right as a private
orgainzation but we as members need to recognize that we are not of the world
and never will be no matter how hard our PR Department tries. Decisions like
this simply reflect that peculiarity and always will. We have to realize and be
okay with the fact that this type of thing continues to add to our odd image -
and usually not in the good way we assume. Church membership will continue to be
stagnant and soon, despite the very liberal way the Church counts and records
membership (inactive members and members unseen for years are still counted),
numbers will show a decline. That's fine but members need to know it is coming
soon and be okay redefining ourselves not as the fast growing Church of the 80s
but as the shrinking one holding fast to our image of truthfulness. I'm fine
with that but it may come as a big change to some.
Sorrowful states I suspect many of the post supporting him are in large part due
to his request from the fringe community. David Powell stated Perhaps it
is time for such individuals (referring to other posters) who speak against
their own church and its leaders to have some guts, step up and have their names
stricken from the records.These are only two examples of the numerous
posts I see day after day by people telling other LDS members that they should
leave the church if they do not agree lock step with the LDS churchs leaders or
the posters opinion. Can you begin to see why people outside the LDS church do
not have a great opinion of the LDS church or its members when you will treat
each other this way?
"The BYU honor code is one of the most ridiculous up tight set of rules."If you don't like it, go somewhere else. I often hear students complain
about the honor code. This kills me because they knew exactly what would be
expected of them.Is it a strict set of rules? Yes. Did they know
the rules before entering the University? Yes. Did they sign an agreement to
live those rules? Yes. I don't see any room for debate, really.Don't try and change the rules once you're at BYU. You're there to study, not
to make administrative changes. Many of the students who disagree with the
honor code are the same students who tried so hard to get in. That's a little
ironic, isn't it?What's absurd is that people can't do what they say
they'd do or be what they said they'd be. And it's petty stuff like shaving or
using clean language or wearing appropriate clothing! If it's such a petty
thing, such a non-consequential act, then why is it such a big deal to JUST DO
"So you are saying you need some sort of religious affiliation for this
ecclessiastical endorsement to go to BYU?"No, that's not what I
said. Let me repeat what I wrote previously. You don't have to be a member of
the LDS church to attend BYU. However, if you ARE a member, you need to be in
good standing with the church to maintain your enrollment at BYU.Students who are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints are expected to maintain the same standards of conduct as members
(because both types of individuals are held to the honor code). Non-members are
ENCOURAGED (not required) to participate in services of their preferred
religion."It shouldn't even be called a university. Being a
university it would have to endorse freedom of expression and free thinking or
change."I'm not sure where you got that as a prerequisite to being a
university, but whatever. You know, for someone who claims to be so open
minded, I'm a little surprised you don't understand how BYU functions. It's
kind of funny to see people who preach open-mindedness be so closed off to how
others do things.
Before everyone continues to rage about the calendar, read this from a Deseret
News article back on July 12:"Regional church leaders who called the
meeting raised three concerns with Hardy during the meeting: the calendar and
his failure to keep some church covenants. Hardy has been inactive in the LDS
Church for the past six years. He no longer pays tithing or wears the religious
undergarments considered sacred. In an interview last week, Hardy said he had
always struggled to fit in and live up to the expectations of membership. Hardy
said he considered resigning his membership to avoid the hearing, but decided
against it out of respect for his family. Hardy is a sixth-generation Mormon.
His parents live in Utah."In short, there were many more issues at
stake than the calendar, and the Church is respecting Hardy's privacy by not
divulging the entirety of its deliberations on his membership. As for BYU, when
someone is excommunicated, its policies dictate that they aren't in good
standing with the university and can't graduate. Hardy knew this when he
entered, and presumably when he made the decisions leading to his disciplinary
council with the Church.
More true inspiration.How sad for byu.
quiet, Christian courage
This guy recommitted to the BYU honor code every year he was there. He knew the
rules, and he blatantly broke them. Why are we shocked that he doesn't get a
degree from BYU? Losing membership in a church you don't believe in and not
getting a degree from a school you dishonor should be no big deal. He took a
stand for "free speech" and won(?).As for the degree, I'm sure most
of his BYU credits will transfer to another school. He'll have to take a few
more classes, but a genius like that will have a degree in no time. I'm sure
that one of those Ivy League schools will love another rebel with a cause like
the "calendar maker." He'll do much better in this world with a degree from one
of those schools than he would with the degree he could have had from BYU
anyway.The lesson is, choose a university, and a church for that
matter, that fits your values or lack thereof. This guy should be happy that he
can live his life without the "controlling" LDS Church looking over his shoulder
any more.He is free! Right?
This administration would have "cast the first stone" at the adultress, that's
for sure. I can't really understand how this guy was excommunicated,
but that's between him and his bishop. But withholding his degree? That smacks
of vindictiveness. Are they going to give him his tuition back? They were
there the past 6 years to take his money!I know that I would have
them in court, but that's just me.Sigh, yet another PR disaster
brought down on the university.
Whether anyone agrees with the university's position on this or not, Hardy
voluntarily entered into a contract with the university which included the honor
code, and then he violated the terms of that agreement, breaking the contract.
Therefor, the university has to obligation to give him his degree.If
fact, if they were to give him his degree knowing he was in violation, they
would be violating their trust with all the other parties to those contracts.
Future contracts would be void, voidable, and/or unenforceable.The
short version: Pay your car payment if you want to own your car. If you don't
pay, don't whine.
This sort of thing is exactly why I can never take the LDS church seriously.
BYU can kick anyone out of school they want. But once you finish the
requirement to withhold a degree is petty. I bet he could win a lawsuit.
To the crazy 9:18 comentator, One of the requirements to recieve a
degree at BYU is that you not be currently disfellowshipped or excomunicated by
the church. That is a stated rule. Mr. Hines is in violation of one of
the precondition to recieve a degree. On another front, if you rob a bank on
the day of your last final they will also not give you your degree.
To Mimi, While it does appear that there were other reasons for
excommunicting Mr. Hines, I think it boils down to his intention with the
calendar. He was seeking to undermine the image of missionaries the
church presents. What is this image. It is of ambassadors for the Lord.
It is of official representatives of the church. This is the image that Mr.
Hines is trying to destroy. He is trying to denigrate people based on their
calling from the Lord. This seems to count as "evil speaking". If you know
what evil speaking is forbidden and what Mr. Hines relationship to such behavior
was based on the fact that it has been stated he no longer was wearing his
temple garments, than you will see what I am getting at. However, for the
purposes of BYU it does not matter why he was excommunicated, merely that he
was. People who have been excommunicated or disfellowshipped by the church are
not able to recieve degrees from BYU. That is the policy. You can denounce it
all you want, but this is a universal policy that is not specific to this
I don't see why its a big deal. I play basketball in church with returned
missionaries all the time and you know how we play? Shirts and skins. And I
guarantee so does every other guy in our religion. Oh, and I, a returned
missionary, also go swimming. You know how? shirtless!! Its nothing everyone
hasn't seen before so I don't understand why its a big deal. I actually wish
that I was in that calendar! That'd be tight
To DennyG, What is hypocritical about following your rules that have
been known and agreed to by all students since the day they entered?
Then give him his money back--with interest. Then be prepared to have a HUGE
lawsuit...that he'd win.How childish, but how predictable for this
joke of a school.
I don't think it's hard to come to the conclusion that 90% of the people posting
here against BYU or the LDS church who claim they are church members or BYU
students (or former BYU students) are simply lying and in fact 1) have never
been a member of the church or a student at BYU and 2) hate the LDS church and
BYU no matter what it does. This guy is after nothing more than
money and he's using hatred of BYU and the church to get it. Those of you
coming to his rescue are simply a party to his scheme.
To Taylor, You obviously have not followed this story. Mr. Hardy was
the creator of the callendar, not a shirtless model. BYU's honor code
makes it 100% clear that being excommunicated or disfellowshipped by the church
makes one in elligable to recieve a degree. This also applies to other honor
code violations, such as disruptive behavior, lieing, cheating, stealing and I
could go on and on and on. To the person who brought up McMahon, there
are many issues, including how long it took for the authorities to find out
about things. I would also say that you miss the point that BYU has in many
more recent cases ousted players before or during the season. Stop judging 21st
century actions based on 1980s policies. Lastly, I think Mr. Hinds must
have been an independent study student or something like that. The fact that he
has been living for the last few years in Las Vegas makes me doubt he was taking
any classes in Provo.
I hope Mr. Hardy gets his degree! As a BYU grad of long ago, I will be very
disappointed if he doesn't. If he has put in the time (and money) and completed
the requirements, he deserves the degree.
To all those who have left NEGATIVE feedback, BYU isn't for everyone. For those
who wish to attend this university, member or non-member, ALL have to sign and
abide by the school's HONOR CODE. NO EXCEPTIONS. It is a sad commentary when
something that stands for righteousness is ridiculed and critizied by some who
lack mature judgement.
The BYU honor code is one of the most ridiculous up tight set of rules. They
take mormonism to a whole new level and personally, its pointless things like
this that make the LDS religion look bad. The sole reason for the univeristy to
hold back this mans well diserved diploma is because they don't want to "look
bad" when they're doing a pretty good job at making themselves look that way
anyway. And as far as the athletes being above the honor code, what is up with
that? Doesn't it apply to everyone? BYU needs to do some serious rethinking.
Stop taking the focus or blame off of Chad and putting it on BYU or the Church.
If this guy was inactive in the church for 6 years, how did he get his yearly
endorsement from his Bishop in order to stay at BYU?On the other
hand, I think BYU overreached here. Maybe not allowing him to attend his
graduation ceremony is one thing, but to suspend his degree when he finished his
course work, goes too far.Even if he "repented" and was reinstated
at BYU in "good standing" by being rebaptized, how long would that take? One
year? 5 years? 10 years?
BYU didn't go looking for him. He had to apply and when accepted, he signed an
agreement. He apparently did not keep up his end of the bargain, and BYU is not
obligated. He's trying for more publicity, so the best thing for all of us is to
let him slide back into obscurity.
So you are saying you need some sort of religious affiliation for this
ecclessiastical endorsement to go to BYU? So if I don't participate in some
sort of organized religion that disqualifies me from going to your out of touch
and narrow minded school? That just shows how backward everything is. It
shouldn't even be called a university. Being a university it would have to
endorse freedom of expression and free thinking or change maybe....I guess God
was on TCU's side last night.
"This is shameful and makes the church look out of touch with the world."Did it ever occur to you that perhaps BYU doesn't WANT to be in touch
with the world? Isn't that what we're about? In the world but not of the
world? Who cares what the world thinks? Stop taking the focus off Chad and his
actions and trying to place blame on the University and the Church. Chad is at
fault here...he didn't follow the rules, and now he suffers the consequences.
End of story.Here's a little excerpt from the Ecclesiastical
Endorsement guidelines:"A students ecclesiastical endorsement may be
withdrawn at any time by his/her ecclesiastical leader if it is determined that
the student is no longer eligible for the endorsement. Students without
endorsements will be required to withdraw, except in unusual circumstances.
Individuals who are EXCOMMUNICATED, disfellowshipped, or disaffiliated with The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are NOT ELIGIBLE TO CONTINUE as a
student by Board of Trustee Policy."
be in trouble if the pics were of return missionaries in their garment tops ?
plenty of lds women would find that as irrisistable.........right ? what about
the lds folks who bought the callendar ? will the church find out who you are
and come get you too ? What about the baseball player who they kicked out for
attendance then reinstated when it was shown that the bish overstepped his
little kingdom ? What does spelling have to do with posting an opinion ?
When you sign an honor code, you agree to the conditions stated therein. BYU
gives a great education at highly subsidized prices for the student. The BYU
administration and the church have every right to enforce the conditions they
It's nice to see that as everything around us is changing, that there is
consistency in this world. I, for one, do not think we all know the whole
story, nor will we ever. But I am glad that BYU stands up for the same
standards that they have for years. Just because the world is changing doesn't
make it right.
There are some members like John Pack Lambert who literally relish this type of
thing but they fail to realize just how damaged the Church's image has become
over the past couple of years. I am a dedicated member that is starting to be
overwhelmed by the number of self-inflicted wounds that have occurred through
the Romney run, Polygamy fiasco, Colorado missionaries, etc etc. Some smug,
self-righteous members sit on the sidelines and cheer this stuff but the fact is
that the Church is rapidly bleeding its own members through resignations, actual
active membership is no higher than 5 million (no matter how good it feels to
repeat 13 million over and over), and non-charity baptisms are very low. Who
cares you say - we will just change
the-great-stone-rolling-forth-to-fill-the-earth anthem to
only-the-very-elect-will-hear-the-truth-or-stay-strong. Whatever works I guess.
But for me, I wish I didn't have to explain a brand new embarrasing incident
weekly to my friends and co-workers who literally laugh at us. This Chad guy
will sue BYU and this will become the latest public incident confirming the
strange, exclusive, judgemental opinion so many already have of us. And the John
Pack Lamberts will just keep chearing it on!
Wow! BYU, has really stepped over the line. There are many non-lds students.
Is BYU going to "delete" those students from graduating because they drink
coffee? Your out of line BYU. You should disfellowship yourselfs for your
You're right, you don't have to be a member of the LDS church to attend BYU.
However, if you ARE a member, you need to be in good standing with the church to
maintain your enrollment at BYU.If you AREN'T a member, you still
need to live by the BYU honor code, AND you still have to get an ecclesiastical
endorsement from either their local ecclesiastical leader, an LDS bishop, or
someone at the Honor Code office. This is right out of the Ecclesiastical
Endorsement guidelines:"LDS students must fulfill their duty in The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, attend Church meetings and ABIDE BY
THE RULES AND STANDARDS OF THE CHURCH at all times and in all places. Students
who are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are
expected to maintain the SAME STANDARDS OF CONDUCT. They are encouraged to
participate in services of their preferred religion."You said: "Even
if it is a private institution rules like these shouldn't exist." Well, that's
exactly why we're a private institution...so we CAN have a higher standard.
Chad KNEW this would happen...he knew he was breaking the rules.
If he was not in good standing with the University because of an "honor code"
violation, shouldn't he have be prohibited from taking those final classes. If
you are going to allow someone to take the classes, then you need to follow suit
and allow them to receive their diploma.
I read the article and comments with great interest. A question to the readers;
Can the Church and its educational agent BYU revoke ex-post BYU diplomas as a
means of disciplining BYU alums who stray from the BYU honor code. My
recollection is that in the 70s we did not have sign the Honor code contract
like they do today but I believe the Honor code did not expire after graduation.
This would be a great means of controlling the Anti-Prop 8 BYU alums.
It is interesting to see this unfold from both sides. I hear plenty of voices
crying against BYU and the church for their actions against Chad...including
former students of BYU(which doesn't mean they are faithful members either.)
Here is a "fact." On Mon Oct 13, Chad (aka Flying Toaster) posted on a less
than LDS friendly blog "I need your help! The war against BYU is On!!!" Based
on this and other posts I have read from him, I strongly suspect he is not in
this for his degree. I suspect many of the posts supporting him are in large
part due to his request from the fringe community. I suspect that his
excommunication has less to do with his actions and beliefs and more to do with
the lack of a broken heart and contrite spirit that is required by the Lord. I
don't believe this is so much a "power play" by the church and BYU as it is an
attempt to save one young man's soul.
How many BYU football players over the years have blatantly violated the honor
code and still were allowed to graduate? From what I understand he completed
all of his coursework and was deemed ready to graduate before the
excommunication took place. After attending the August ceremony, the letter
arrived indicating that the degree would be withheld.For those
thinking he can simply transfer his credits to another school, BYU has a policy
that they won't release transcripts for students not in good standing either,
which means he'll never be able to graduate or finish his degree someplace else.
I hope he intends on suing, because this decision is anything but Christ-like.
Weird. Didn't ZCMI have ads with guys shirtless?
He made a commitment to live by the Honor Code.He failed.He paid the price.Done deal.
This is why I will never set foot in an LDS church again. People that cannot
accept a good soul and have to bully them are the worst kind. BYU sounds like
they are just being a bully. I agree with an earlier comment that said just give
the man his diploma and let him move on. The press they will receive because of
it will do far more harm than good. I wish him the best. I wonder what they have
done to all the RM's that posed were they flogged and excommunicated also?
Job Interview said:"BYU revoked my degree."=========Technically speaking, BYU did not "revoke" what it never bestowed. The school
did not confer a degree in the first place. He did not fulfill the requirements
for graduation. Plain and simple. This is his problem, not the church's, not
the administration's, not the culture's, not the hierarchy's.I still
blame the Bishop(s) for misrepresenting this guy's "worthiness" to even be a
student at all. He should have been booted some time ago. How ungodly of BYU
to allow him to attend classes all those years.
Another example of the Mormon Church's fondness for appearance. But what they
lack is substance.
re: O: BYU did not put out a statement and then say "you don't have all the
facts." BYU sent a letter to Mr. Hardy, and then confirmed a reporter's
question about whether this was accurate. Mr. Hardy is the one that has been
publicizing this.re: UteStudent: BYU doesn't require its students
to be LDS. It does, however, require a yearly ecclesiastical endorsement. An
excommunication, whether from the LDS, Catholic, Methodist, or any other church,
hardly qualifies as an endorsement.
This decision has nothing to do with the LDS church. BYU has standards BASED
upon LDS standards, however you do not need to be a member of the church to go
to BYU. The standards of the University needs to be meet by members and
non-members or you can be on probation, suspected or expelled from the
University. The Church leaders didn't call up the University and say that this
guy shouldn't get his degree. He broke the campus rules! We don't know if
this invovles the calendar or some other campus rule. Chill people and stop
your Anti-LDS slant.
I'm saddened by the number of apparent church members who would post such
thoughtless and vicious comments against BYU and their own church leaders. I
believe this reveals some serious character flaws in these church members, and
this concerns me.Honor is honor. Dishonor is dishonor. Right is right.
Wrong is wrong. And in this church we are taught that committment is
committment.Perhaps it is time for such individuals who would speak
against their own church and its leadership to have some guts, step up and have
their names stricken from the records of the church. There is no gray area in
this matter. Either you have a testimony of the truth (or are seeding after
one), or you are not. You are either on the Lord's side, or you are not.
This article is pathetic. The 'good standing' requirement isn't related to
membership in the LDS church. If that were true, non-members would never
graduate. It is related to the Honor Code.I don't understand, nor
do I care to know, the reasons for Chad's excommunication. Logic tells me that
it's not just for the calender. If that were true, the men in the calender
would be excommunicated as well (I haven't read where that's the case). Even then, excommunication makes Chad a non-member (I know there are
much broader and more serious consequences, but for the purpose of this issue,
it's Chad's membership that seems to be the problem). BYU doesn't withold
diplomas from non-members. As a BYU grad, I had to meet the academic
requirements of the engineering department (including general ed) and be in
'good standing' with the Honor Code (which doesn't require Church Membership).
The reporter should have known their subject well enough to ask the question
'which part of the Honor Code did Chad violate?' They didn't ask, so we
speculate (another word for gossip). I believe the reporter needs
to do their job and provide some facts or put this article in Op Ed
re: Job Interview | 9:12 a.m. Oct. 17, 2008 Could it be that BYU is
so obsessed with their image that this may backfire?After all, there
is no such thing as bad publicity. It seems not only have they have given
Calendar-boy more free publicity & validated his poor choice.re: I
have my Diploma | 1:33 a.m. Oct. 17, 2008 I agree
And the LDS church is critical of the the Roman Catholic Church. As an LDS
missionary we were always tutt, tutting about the control and arrogance of the
Roman Catholic Church over their people. Well, guess who is doing the same
thing now. Chad, get away from these crazy people!
The rules are the rules. By the way, did you see our Quest For Perfection last
This disgusts me. It makes me wish I had attended school someplace else.
This is shameful and makes the church look out of touch with the world. I live
on the East coast now and people don't even get why the calendar was such a big
deal. So now the church is going to extort Chad Hardy by withholding his
degree? Do you have any idea how foolish that looks? BYU didn't do
their part by supervising his church activity. If he kept attending the
university and completed his credits -- give him the degree. There are plenty
of BYU graduates out there not upholding church standards (many work in the
Justice Department under George Bush) I don't see BYU going after those degrees!
Prospective Employer: "Chad, do you have a degree?"Chad: "BYU revoked
mine".Employer: Your hired!!!!
They sit here and do stories on the creator of the calendar and what happened to
him but what about the shirtless missionaries that was in the calendar. Are they
going to be excommunicated also?
What you are failing to see is that he must be in good standing with the
University not the Church the University. As a result of his excommunication he
has violated the "Honor Code" which he signed. Here we are again wanting to
find someone to blame for anothers actions. He was not in good standing with
the University therefore no degree. This is common place in the
educational realm. If you are not in good standing with the University at time
of graduation you will not be granted a diploma. It only makes the news because
it becomes a religious issue when it involves BYU. If this were happening at CU
Boulder this would not even be a story. And yes there are rules there, my
friend has not been given his diploma because he was not in good standing with
them because of a Fraternity incident. They have outlined what he can do, but
he would rather stand on principal than get his diploma. So please stop blaming
the Church and BYU cause this guy violated the rules.
Wow, as a BYU alum I have to say this is REALLY embarassing. This guy did the
work and deserves his degree. To withold it at this late stage in the game is
mean spirited. It shows more lack of class and character than the calendars
did.This violates the spirit of D&C 134:10 "we do not believe that
any religious society has authority to try men on the right of property or life,
to take from them this worlds goods"For a church that prides itself
on living by good principles instead of strictly by rules, this decision hard to
Any University has the right to require that a student be in "good standing"
before receiving a diploma, transcript, or other rights. That would include
something as mundane as having all tuition and fees paid up. BYU is entirely in
their right to withhold his diploma. What is not right is that if he was
inactive for six years, he was a student without a legitimate endorsement.
Which Bishop(s) lied to keep him in school? All the guy has to do is transfer
his credits to some other school, hop through some hoops and he'll have a valid
degree. Big fizz. He chose knowingly and very publicly to flaunt the basic
moral standards of the church for his own gain $$$. He knew what he was doing
and he got what he wanted - poor little victim psychology. I think it quite
possible he will do more and worse than that in the coming years. Seems like
he's quite enjoying himself playing the devil's advocate. I hope the
missionaries who posed for pictures can get their heads on straight - and I do
This is absolutely DISGUSTING!!! How can an academic institution do this and
get away with it. This kid should take up a lawsuit. I'm a journalism student
and this article was poorly written and lacking more detailed information.
HOWEVER, how can this happen? How is it a requirement to be in good standing
with the church to get a degree? I THOUGHT YOU DIDN"T HAVE TO BE LDS to go to
BYU! He should transfer his credits and go somewhere else to get the degree.
Even if it is a private institution rules like these shouldn't exist. BYU needs
to wake up and get with the 21st century. This is just another example of the
church and BYU living in their own world without a clue in the dark ages.
As Mark Twain said: "If Christ were alive today there is one thing he wouln't be
and that's a christian" If he earned his degree he earned his degree. Give him
what is rightfully his.
To uncanny gunman, This is consistent with BYU's stated policies. I loved BYU and wish I could have managed to get my degree there. It was
1000 times better than the school I went to afterward. Students trusted
each other. I am sure there were those who cheated, but not on the scale of
paying people to do their homework like the school I went to latter. The
teachers trusted students, and there was more respect for teachers from the
students. There was a positive feeling in class instead of a strugle on the
part of teachers to get control. For the most part instructors genuinely
appreciated students comments. I never had a teacher who felt that a student
trying to insigth was an insut, which is more than I can say for teachers that I
had at the other school. Some of them seemed to think any student who
questioned their omniscience was questioning their academic credentials.
BYU makes it very clear that being excommunicated or disfellowshipped by the LDS
church is a violation of the honor code. Non-LDS students still need to have an
ecclesiastical endorsement from their religious leaders.
I would be upset if BYU did not revoke his degree at this point. It could not
possibly be more obvious the contempt this guy has for the church, its
teachings, or its members. He knew from his first enrollment at BYU that he
needed to abide by church teachings to maintain his eligibility for a degree
there, and the only thing that changed between the day he enrolled at BYU and
the day his degree was revoked was him. I'm amazed at the people
who think they have a right to spit in someone's face and then get treated
respectfully by the person they spat upon. This guy (and the people who support
him) are just the next generation examples of those who believe there should be
no accountability in life. And, I'll add that I seriously doubt
this guy actually wanted a degree from BYU. His only aim is to bring attention
to himself as a false martyr of the church to make money.
I hate to say it but I believe you should give him his degree, keep quiet and
send him onhis way. The free publicity only fuels the fire for his sales. There
have been 3 articles about this in the Des News deemed as news worthy. It is a
calendar that the participants willfully consented to. Instead of imbellishing
over this shouldn't this paper focus on something else such as the Economy, Wars
on both Fronts, Elections etc etc?
My response "Yes, yes, yes, yes". This is the best thing I have read all
year. Someone is taking a stand against these people who think they can mock
all things sacred with impunity.
No it is not totally up to BYU Alan. The contract is two sided, and if we don't
have all the facts, that isn't our fault, it is BYUs. Don't put out a statement
and then defend you action by saying "you don't have all the facts." If you
don't want to involve the public, don't. But you can't have it both ways.
Because it sounds like he's entitled to a refund.
This guy can transfer to another university and take some classes to officially
matriculate to the new school. He can then get his degree and move on. Simple
as that. Is it the degree he wants, or is there some other reason he chose to
take the classes and apply for graduation. We don't know, it isn't our
business, so why speculate?
Those who seek to follow the wrong profit get their just deserts. If only the
Church would now be as vigilant in stopping those predators who use their
memebership to make $ from scams, but I guess that would hit to close to home.
Can you imagine Utah without the scammers and pyramid schemes? For those
outside of Utah, remind your young people keep your shirts on, but if you can
fleece your neighobor with a pyramid schene, more power to you.
The Church does not publicize excommunications. When they occur the general
body of the Church is not informed. A repentant person quietly goes through the
reinstatement process. Thus, when I read in the press about someone's
excommunication, I know that news is coming from them, and they probably aren't
on track to regain their membership. This DN article is short on details but
we're certainly only hearing what he wants us to hear, making him sound like
he's an innocent victim.
How many good kids that are willing to live BYU's standards are kept out of
school since seats are taken up by students like Chad Hardy?The
shame is that Chad lied to someone about his desire to attend BYU (himself, his
church leaders) if he's not been an active church member for 6 years. His
honesty is probably just now starting, now that he feels wronged by the
school.His plight is certainly amusing. I liked the post about
'cleverness'. How many people 'clever' themselves out of their integrity...
I'm absolutely positive we don't have all the facts on this case. I have known
of people who have done much worse than the calendar thing and have not been
excommunicated or this severely disciplined by BYU. It is so easy for all of us
to sit in judgment against BYU, the LDS Church, or even Hardy, but we can't
because we don't know everything. Perhaps we could all try minding
our own business. What rules BYU decides to have is totally up to BYU.
Students are on their honor to uphold them, or forfeit their good standing. We
all know that. BYU's responsibility is to uphold the honor code consistently,
and not cherry-pick who gets disciplined and who doesn't for a given offense.
If I remember right he told the media after his disciplinary council that the
church wanted him to formally apologize for the calender (which I believe all of
the men who posed for the pictures did). All this guy had to do was apologize
and accept that he had stepped over the line and he would have maintained his
membership and received his degree but instead decided that his views had
drifted so far from the church that he didn't want it anymore. Chad Hardy stated
afterwards "They did what they believed was right, and I really do feel it was
the best decision for both of us." HE MADE HIS DECISION so stop bashing the
church for sticking by the values that as members we are striving to live.
He made a commitment...he didn't keep it. That's it!Controversy over.
Amen. What a great comment nuff saiduneducated
Stop downing BYU. I used to do the same thing, but have since learned that the
public does not know the details of what goes on. If BYU were to respond to your
accusations, they would have to give private information that would cause more
He got what was coming to him. He kept testing the rules (which he agreed to)
and when he went over the line the rules caught up to him.The only
thing ridiculous about this is his behavior.
Not sure how I feel about withholding the degree. Reference the
excommunication, I am sure we dont have all the facts. Reference the shirtless
photos in the calendar. I thought this was down right dangerous. Why? Its not
the photos in and of themselves, its that they represent missionaries. There
are folks who prey on missionaries. There are also those who are, at first,
innocently infatuated with a missionary and it later leads bad things. Either
way, a calendar such as this promotes problems.
This whole thing is squirrelly(sp.). The guy wants a degree from a school
sponsored by a church whose standards he flaunts for his own gain. Which is it? Are you in or are you out? It's either the diploma or the
Amen!! I laughed and laughed. Good point and what wisdom. Thank you.
So what if Cheney spoke at BYU? What has that got to do with this situation?
He had to be doing something more than making a shirtless calendar.
Me thinks he wants to eat his cake and have it too. Either you decide to
understand what being a Latter-day Saint means and embrace it or you don't. This
guy was messed a long time ago.
Stories about this guy keep coming out, so this isn't exactly happening
suddenly. I don't understand how he could have taken those classes this summer
given that he had already lost his membership. There's a lot that isn't being
Why is it that the "pointing finger" people hold such weight in our faith.
Whatever happened to Christlike kindness, the golden rule, and all that. Are we
really so small minded as this?
Once again BYU shows their true colors.Hypocricy at it's best.
For some reason, all posters to the Deseret News website lack spelling skills
and have an anti-Mormon agenda. I sure wish the Deseret News would require
registration for these boards.
If I were Chad, I'd be initially incensed. On the other hand, a resume that
states "BS, BYU (revoked)" is worth more than a regular BYU degree. I have two
degrees from BYU that are worth less than that.
Nobody should be surprised that the administrative beaurocrats at BYU have
pulled off a stunt like this. There are way too many administrators at the Y
who think they are called of God and inspired to manipulate the lives of
students. The power gets to their heads, and things like this happen. Certain
administrators are the worst thing about BYU, which I otherwise thoroughly
enjoyed as a student. Even President Benson warned us multiple times of the
dangers of beaurocracies, especially in the church.
I honestly think that if the LDS church has an issue with a bunch of return
missionaries choosing to take some shirtless pictures, than they need to take a
better look at all thier supposedly good standing members. If promoting these
types of pictures is enough to excummincate someone, they'd probley lose at
least 75% of all thier members to excummincation if people were even half
honest. Plus taking away this guy's diploma at this point is just totally BYU
and the LDS church abusing thier power. When he was excummincated he already had
his credits. Then there's the cost, what about all of his school expences? Are
they just going to tell him that he's going to lose it? Like I said, this is
abuse of power. I guess the church must need to show that they are still the
one's with the power, because if you go to church and put on a rightous face,
you don't have to fear being excummincated. Decided what's right for you and do
it. If you have act like you belive in something you really don't to make others
aknowledge you, than it's thier problem, not yours.
I bought a car, I maintained it, I bought new tires, and when they repossessed
it, they were picking me out to punish me.I did makes some payments,
and most were late, but I was two payments short!!! I did almost everthing I
committed to.Why did I not get the title to the car?
Chenney spoke at BYU
Hey, I'm just a 50 year old guy with a Masters Degree, and this cracks me up.The younger generation sign their name to a legal document, they
understand the terms, and all of a sudden think they are "more clever" than
everyone else, break the terms, and wonder why their "cleverness" can't get them
out of their situation.Cleverness cannot be substituted for honor,
intelligence, wisdom, loyalty, or integrity.Our whole housing market
fell because of the "cleverness" of the lenders and people buying the homes.Rules do fit everyone. Don't start whining for this little man-child.
He'll be fine. He's too clever.What a funny, funny diploma-less guy.
The Church does not publish or broadcast any of the finding,and reasons that
come out in church disciplinary councils. You couldn't possibly have all the
facts and to make such a rash judgement on what little information you have in
this or any case like this. Easy to judge when you don't know all the facts!
Been there done that many, many times.
BYU needs to apply the Honor Code to athletes, and NOW! This is unacceptable.
So, if he has been inactive for 6 years, how has he managed to get an
ecclesiastical endorsement and study at BYU? And if he is so inactive, why did
he want to study at BYU?Did Chad actually serve a mission? Where
and when? And why did the Church excommunicate Chad? The article makes it
sound like it was for standing in front of a camera shirtless. I hardly think
that was the reason (think of all the swimmers on the BYU swim team!).Had the reporter ever spoken with Chad? This article leaves a lot of
We have the whole story. BYU is holding Chad's diploma ransom until Chad returns
as a member of the LDS church in good standing...which they know will never
happen. What low class. He finished all his required classes. To withhold his
diploma is nothing short of classless. Acts like this are starting to define the
I find this whole thing crazy. He wasn't active for six years but he continued
at the Y? And now he won't be getting a diploma? Is this as confussing to
everyone else as it is to me? Slap on a football jersey, a basketball jersey,
ect and this wouldn't even be a big deal.
Until you all know the whole or rest of the story hold onto your rocks.
Don't think Chad is the only one BYU has dissed. Remember Jim McMahon, One of
the greatest quarterbacks BYU has ever fielded. For you young readers, he led
BYU in a stunning comeback in the Holiday Bowl in his senior year and then went
on to win a Super Bowl for the Chicago Bears. Problem was, he did like a party.
BYU kept him on the team (parties and all) and relished in the Holiday Bowl
win. But then kicked him out of school the following semester for honor code
issues. Methinks it may be BYU that has no honor. Believe me, I was all blue
until the McMahon thing.... now color me red!
I think there are probably mroe things than selling a calendar that have cost
him his membership. Hymn number 118
BYU should show some class and give this guy his degree. Presumably lots of
non-Mormons earn degrees from BYU, and they're not LDS members in good standing!
And this is another reason I go to UVU. I'm LDS, but I think this is beyond