We're electing a mere mortal

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  • Charles
    Sept. 23, 2008 7:11 a.m.

    to 8:33 and 8:49...whoever you are...You've asked a question on here many times? Well no one knows who you are because your moniker changes with each post. Maybe some consistency in who you are would be a great start...

    As for my questions, you didn't answer them. Instead you gave your usual liberal drivel that is called Republican bashing.

    Your list is nothing compared to the endless list of failures of Democrats yet they are returned to Washington. You're whining about Palin as if she's running for POTUS. I know, liberals are scared so they are going after her.

    Why is it Dems can't get rid of the lousy representatives in Congress?

    The real answer lies with the poster who said that Dems don't believe they are doing anything wrong and that everyone is doing what they are so it is ok.

    There's nothing rhetorical about my questions. I just wanted to see if there were any honest liberals on these pages. And by your responses, it looks like the answer is no.

    If you want to list more Repubs then go ahead. But be sure to see how many either gave up their office or were not re-elected.

  • Re: Charles and PJ
    Sept. 22, 2008 11:14 p.m.

    Look around on political blogs and you'll find countless right-wing drones who sound exactly like you. They all keep the singing the same Rezko/Wright/Ayers song again and again (never mind that McCain and Palin are committing gaffes on a daily basis) while peppering Obama with personal insults based in no reality at all. Bring up issues? No chance, because you know the Republicans are doomed if that happens. We're trapped in an gruesome mistake of a war, Wall Street is falling apart, and the our debt is skyrocketing. Face it, Republicans had their chance and they've blown it big time. I don't claim that Obama is perfect, but he'll at least get us back on the road to recovery. McCain would be a DISASTER for America, but I'm not worried. Anyone who's willing to turn off a computer and look outside of Utah's no-thought zone knows that McCain/Palin are crashing big time.

    I can't wait to come back to these boards and watch you throw your tantrums after Obama wins (Oh, and most of the Founding Fathers were Deists. Sorry if the truth hurts, but you must be used to that.)

  • wrz
    Sept. 22, 2008 10:44 p.m.

    Gus Talwynd | 12:18 p.m.:

    "Do you forget that this country was not founded on the establishment of a particular religion as a central pillar of our nation?"

    We're confident that it was not based on the Muslim religion.

  • PJ
    Sept. 22, 2008 10:33 p.m.

    Rc | 1:35 a.m.:

    "TO PJ : What a snide, cynical remark to make about Obama"

    What do you mean? You can't get more praise than to be cited as a Messiah.

    "You reveal more about yourself than you do about him."

    This is not about me. It's about the man who is the Messiah.

    "Do you worship your party so much that you cannot see any good at all in the opposing candidate?"

    The opposing candidate has little or no good. Wait! He would make a nice Community Organizer.

    "This kind of rhetoric is NOT good for America, and I hope we can learn to discuss the issues without this adolescent name-calling."

    Tell that to your friends who constantly and vilely rail on Governor Sarah Palin.

    "Of course, it is much easier to do that than to take the time to study the issues and candidates, and make an informed decision."

    I've made a study of the candidate. Here are a few of his friends:

    Terrorist William Ayers
    America hater Father Pfleger
    America hater Jeremiah Wright
    America hater Muslim Louis Farrakhan
    Criminal Tony Rezko

    If that doesn't concern you nothing will.

  • @Charles
    Sept. 22, 2008 8:49 p.m.

    So part of the problem here Charles is that you really do not ask questions you make rhetorical statements based on rhetoric, but you go ahead and keep thinking you are superior.

    One question though how come not one person on these forums (either party to be fair) including you Charles has actually ever been able to answer my one simple concrete question I have asked many times. What is the one specific policy plan that your candidate is proposing that has made you decide to vote for them?

  • @Charles
    Sept. 22, 2008 8:33 p.m.

    Have you ever noticed that republicans cannot turn that same critical lens back at their candidates and if anyone else does they are branded as just being shrill haters.

    A few examples for you Charles:

    Mr. McCain has embraced Pat Robinson despite the fact that two days after 9/11 he claimed that the attacks where the result of Americas wicked ways.
    Palin sat in a church where the pastor stated that the attacks on Israel are punishment because of the Jews did to accept Jesus.
    Palin supported the bridge to nowhere until congress pulled out then she took the money and ran.
    McCain voted for the deregulation that he is now railing against as the cause of the wall street melt down.

    to quote you "the list is endless shall I go on"

  • @why is it
    Sept. 22, 2008 8:23 p.m.

    "why is it" it is actually really simple republicans only see the world throw their narrow brand of religion that tells them they are always right. Everything has to be framed in terms of their brand of religion it is the only thing they know. I have to admit I maybe a little envious though, it must be nice to have a brand of god that never disagrees with you.

  • Why is it
    Sept. 22, 2008 7:37 p.m.

    Republicans always call Obama the Messiah? I've never heard or seen that label from any Democrat. Either they're more fond of Obama than they're saying or they don't understant politics. Maybe both.

  • Master of the obvious
    Sept. 22, 2008 5:10 p.m.

    I think we all know they are both mortals.

  • Old One
    Sept. 22, 2008 4:48 p.m.

    1) Give me one example of where it says this country was founded on a belief in God and Jesus. Do you know what a Deist believes and how many of our founding fathers were Deists?
    2) Congress does not run the country. That is supposed to be shared by the President, Congress, and the Supreme Court. 'W' and Cheney have ruined that, however, by assuming so much power of their own.

  • Obama is mortal
    Sept. 22, 2008 3:17 p.m.

    Anyone who believes Obama is anything more than a mortal has had too much coolaid today!

    They are both just men. Neither one being elected will mean the end of the United States (too you Democrats threatening to commit hari-kari or leave the contry if Obama isn't elected).

    Either could be a good President. They don't do it by themselvs you know! I would look carefully at who thy choose as advisors (and have chosen in the past to advise them). That tells you more about how they will lead than any speach, debate or dog and pony show.

    If you want a clue on how they would lead and who will be helping them gather information and make critical decisions... check out their advisors and their support team. That tells you who's advice they would be taking, what special interest groups have influence on them, and who they would choose to help them lead the country. Again, it's not a one man show (no matter how much people want you to think Bush alone is to blame for where we are today). Part of it is who he choose as advisors (not all of them good obviously).

  • To Hipocrisy
    Sept. 22, 2008 2:23 p.m.

    At the political level it was democratic party hacks who headed Freddie & Fannie and managed them to the brink. It was democratic party pc that declared that anyone who could fog a mirror deserved a home loan, and made it law that they had to get one. It was republican spegetti spines that let it happen.

  • Charles
    Sept. 22, 2008 1:47 p.m.

    Thanks Gus. I aim to please. Also, I noticed you didn't refute anything I posted. Why is that? Maybe because Americans who do think for themselves see Obama for what he is and what he thinks he is?

    That wind last night and this morning is the wind that is still sinking the Obama ship....down, down it goes....

  • Hypocrisy
    Sept. 22, 2008 1:15 p.m.

    The last thing we need to do, is elect another inept administration because of their religious beliefs.

    The United States is not struggling because of God's punishments. It's struggling because of poor leadership, greed, and empty promises.

    If you want more of the same, continue to vote the same people/same type of people into office.

    In respect to the last two years:
    the economic problems that we're having today, are the results of years of deregulation, poor money management, bad investments, and lies. Not because the Democrats have been in Congress for 20 months.

    Such judgment is unbelievably ignorant.

  • Gus Talwynd
    Sept. 22, 2008 12:36 p.m.

    Charles, you're one funny guy. You've made my day! I've not read so much silliness in a comment as I do in yours.

  • Religion not the issue!
    Sept. 22, 2008 12:24 p.m.

    What's with all you people that think religion is a major issue in this campaign??? or that religion gives either of the parties a differentiating edge over the other???

    Think about it...
    - Both canditates (and their VPs) claim to be christians? So why do Democrats only point at the Republican candidates and whine about religion? Their BOTH THE SAME!

    -What US President HASN'T been at least a little bit religious (I don't care which brand)???

    -What religion is President Bush??? (and no, "Evengelical" is not a religion)

    -The last President who made a big deal about his religion (and I think ABSOLUTLY EVERY American know what religion he was.... Was President Kenedy (A DEMOCRAT)!

    -So playing the religion-card doesn't diferentiate Democrats from Republicans as much as you think it does (unless you think Democrats only say they are religious and they believe in God to get elected, but they say it with a wink and a nod because their base knows only Democrats can get away with saying they're religious and not have the media and the other party clap-trappers try to make it into a big issue).

  • Gus Talwynd
    Sept. 22, 2008 12:18 p.m.

    Do you forget that this country was not founded on the establishment of a particular religion as a central pillar of our nation? If you want to get into the argument that Christianity should be declared the "official" religion, then you will no only be in violation of the Constitution, but you will resurrect those old criticisms of which religion sect is "Christian" and which is not.

    It is certainly clear that the evangelical Right will rise to the occassion and declare that Utah's predominant faith is blasphemous and heretical to Christianity's central beliefs.

    Look at the opening this will give to re-establishing the religious bigotry of the 19th and early 20th centuries. All this noise about validating Christianity is based on low self-esteem among a small, but vocal segment of the Christian world.

    If you are not secure enough in yourself to find value in the central precept of separation of church and state, you might go back and examine your faith and see what it is based on. This is the approach taken by radical Muslims: Attack those who are not like them and vigorous push their religious agenda.

  • Charles
    Sept. 22, 2008 11:52 a.m.

    Anon..I usually ignore you and your daily hatred rants but I can't believe you don't know this for yourself.

    I'm a free thinker. I don't need the DailyKos or DNC to give me my marching orders like you and all other liberals.

    I gave many specific examples, I guess you don't like them. The faux presidential seal that Obama had made up for himself and debuted at the Governors conference and then pulled it immediately because of the backlash. (Anointed One and lack of judgment)

    Hangs in a church for 20 years that preaches hate for God and country; Rev. Wright as mentor (not smart or intelligent moves - shows inability to reason hate versus worship of God)

    "Clinging to their religion, guns and country" Again, not the smartest of statements to make

    Votes "present" so he doesn't have to take a stand and when he does vote he voted for infanticide.

    press conf without teleprompter - uh, um, uh, um, uh, um, uh...yes what a very "thoughtful" response. He has no principles so he can't speak without the written word for him.

    The list is endless...shall I continue?

    You really need help with the FF and their-belief-in God?

  • Anonymous
    Sept. 22, 2008 11:33 a.m.

    The more time goes on the more evident it is that today's modern American conservative movement is dumber than can ever be imagined.

    They have morped into a cult of hate-filled Limbaughs that are as close to fascism that this country has ever seen.

    There may be no real hope for America as the rich get richer at the expense of the little guys and the rich wanabes (or pretend to be)

  • Oh Please
    Sept. 22, 2008 9:20 a.m.

    Only landlords have "tenants."

  • Anonymous
    Sept. 22, 2008 9:19 a.m.

    Charles, in your diatribe you state your opinion without any backup, you claim that Obama "thinks of himself as the "Anointed One"", you claim that Obama "isn't smart; not intelligent; has no reasoning skills" yet you provide nothing but your own hubris to back this up with. You are the one who comes off as not smart, not intelligent (redundant), with no reasoning skills. Then you follow it up with "As for the country being founded on JudeoChristian beliefs; that's so well documented that it's not even up for debate", well we are here debating it, with or without your permission. Where are these documents that you reference. Gopherus provided us with the treaty of Tripoli, what do you have to refute it? Nothing.

  • 2 bits
    Sept. 22, 2008 9:14 a.m.

    I think the more famous people you know (in entertainment, buisness, politics, etc) the more you realise they are all just like you and me, but in some instances life has just dealt them some different cards in life or they just played their cards differently.

    I went off to college with a friend who became a famous doctor. We were good buddies from childhood, took the same classes, got the same grades, hung out with the same crowd. Now when we get together or I see him in his white coat in the hospital it makes all these imortal-physicians just seem normal everyday people to me.

    I've come to be close friends with some famous musicians, politicians and business men in my life and I'm always amazed at how normal and common they are once you get to know them.

    I think it's the same for the President. He doesn't have to be some imortal super-human-being from birth. He needs to be like us, but with proven leadership skills, integrity and most of all... willing and able to take on this super-important responsibility and let his Presidential duties/decisions/situations/associations/etc build him into the super-great-leader he has the potential to become.

  • To Kevin:
    Sept. 22, 2008 8:44 a.m.

    If religion destroys this country it will be the religion of "government is god", and if you believe in God you cannot speak on a public issue because religion and government together is prohibited.

  • RedShirt
    Sept. 22, 2008 7:44 a.m.

    What we need to hope for is that the Democrats do not control both Congress and the White House. I don't care who runs which, but studies have shown that when they are NOT controlled by the same party the economy does best.

    I think it has to do with stupid infighting.

  • Charles
    Sept. 22, 2008 7:21 a.m.

    Good to see the Obama apologists out in full force this morning. It's too bad that many of you haven't read Obama's words or seen his press conferences. He thinks of himself as the "Anointed One". He's an arrogant jerk.

    He may have gone to "self-proclaimed good schools" but he isn't smart; he's not intelligent; he has no reasoning skills; he picks poor friends to associate with for over 20 years; he's a mess.

    Where did Obama's "new and improved" Presidential seal go? the guy is a pompous windbag who can't speak without his teleprompter.

    I'm really mystified at the worshiping practices of those of you who are Obama fanatics. He brings nothing to the table; nothing and yet you agree with him that he is the new Messiah.

    As for the country being founded on JudeoChristian beliefs; that's so well documented that it's not even up for debate. You can continue to deny the facts all you want to make yourself feel better but facts are facts and they are there for you to learn and understand.

  • Anonymous
    Sept. 22, 2008 7:12 a.m.

    This Democrat candidate is the Messiah BS is yet another cute buzz phrase that neocon guru likes to repeat over and over again to his mind-controlled flock.

    It never stops.

  • Kevin
    Sept. 22, 2008 7:00 a.m.

    This country was not founded on religion. It was founded on the tenet of freedom for all. It was founded on our Constitution. This country will be destroyed by religion if we are not careful.

  • Gopherus
    Sept. 22, 2008 5:59 a.m.

    This country is not based on the idea "that we believe in God, even Jesus Christ."
    It clearly doesn't state this in the Constitution. If that isn't clear enough for you check out the Treaty with Tripoli. "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." Yes, this was ratified by the Senate and signed by the President (John Adams).

  • ECR
    Sept. 22, 2008 5:26 a.m.

    Just a couple of points of disagreement:

    1. I am a devout Christian who accepts Jesus Christ as my only hope of surviving beyond this life. But I have to admit that there is no mention of Jesus Christ in our Constitution. I think the founders specifically wanted it that way.

    2. The Congress does not "run the country". There are three branches of government, the executive, the legislative and the judiciary. The problems created in recent years have come about because many or most who serve in those branches have forgotten that concept of shared power and have abdicated it to one or the other.

    3. I'm glad to see the writer acknowledging that we are electing a mere morotal. Not a religious leader, but a poltical leader who will guide our country - and the world - in a moral path that recognizes people of all faiths or of no faith - whichever one chooses.

  • Duff
    Sept. 22, 2008 4:41 a.m.

    And the republican vice candidate thinks her corny religion trumps your corny religion.

  • Timj
    Sept. 22, 2008 4:06 a.m.

    Hate to burst your bubble, but many of the founding fathers were deists.
    And hate to burst another bubble (okay, so I actually enjoy bursting ignorant bubbles) but one of the main reasons this country was founded was for economic reasons--so that the states would have free trade. Religion is mentioned in the Bill of Rights--but just fleetingly.
    And Obama's not the Messiah any more. The Messiah is now some woman from Alaska.

  • Milady
    Sept. 22, 2008 3:45 a.m.

    Have you not heard? The Democrats' candidate IS the Messiah

    Wow! PJ, I was surprised to hear you think the Democratic candidate is the Messiah! I didnt realize that you thought so highly of Sen. Obama. As for me, Jesus Christ is my Messiah; Sen. Obama is a highly educated, very intelligent man seeking the office of the Presidency of the United States.

  • Anonymous
    Sept. 22, 2008 2:07 a.m.

    We get what we deserve. Our Congress and President is a reflection of our collective stupidity. If we elected other parties then the competition to keep a job would mean that the congress would have to perform. The Pepublicats and Democans are not going to change the political corruption. They are making to much money of the current arrangement.

  • Rc
    Sept. 22, 2008 1:35 a.m.

    TO PJ : What a snide, cynical remark to make about Obama. You reveal more about yourself than you do about him. Whether or not one votes for Obama, I think all Americans should take pride in this historic election, and rejoice in the progress we have made as a nation in the nomination of both an african american, and a woman. History is being made on both tickets. Do you worship your party so much that you cannot see any good at all in the opposing candidate ? This kind of rhetoric is NOT good for America, and I hope we can learn to discuss the issues without this adolescent name-calling. Of course, it is much easier to do that than to take the time to study the issues and candidates, and make an informed decision. Your brand of sarcasm is really nothing more than trash talk. Both McCain and Obama have gone through nearly two years of tough campaigning, have put themselves on the line every single day, and deserve our respect, even if we disagree with their ideas and policies.

  • PJ
    Sept. 22, 2008 12:35 a.m.

    "Remember, we are not electing a king or a god but a mere mortal. Let's keep things in perspective."

    Have you not heard? The Democrats' candidate IS the Messiah