Recognize propaganda

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  • NPR fan
    Sept. 12, 2008 6:13 p.m.

    Utah NPR has civil discourse and usually tries to get all sides on most of the shows. The baloney on the cable networks (Fox, Msnbc, CNN) is mostly sensationalist drivel that spends more time on Brittney than on anything of substance.

  • re: Fox vs NPR?
    Sept. 12, 2008 5:25 p.m.

    What made you think Fox and NPR had anything in common.

    Guess where he heard that BS?
    You guess it - The Rush Limbaugh Show!

    Limbaugh hates NPR and PBS. He uses the usual John Birch Society rhetoric: "They are socialistic" and of course, the stupid neocon fans believe every word.

  • Fox vs NPR?
    Sept. 12, 2008 4:39 p.m.

    You compared Fox and NPR?
    What made you think they had anything in common?

    I don't watch much Fox at home, but it's on all day in the lobby at my work. The one area where I give profs to Fox is... They try to delineate between their news programming and their opinion/entertainment personality shows. Some channels, like MSNBC and some network Sunday morning programs (in my opinion) pretend their program is impartial news, but it's not, which is off-putting to me.

    I think PBS has the same problem. They air many "News" talk-shows that seem to take themselvs seriously but in my opinion are almost as biased as some more toung-in-cheek Fox programs. PBS does have some very good serious news programs though.

  • not fooling anyone
    Sept. 12, 2008 4:20 p.m.

    Why do you suppose it is that so many Utahns sound exactly like Rush Limbaugh clones, especially with their non-stop attacks on liberals, the Kennedy's, the Clintons, the United Nations, etc. and yet nobody ever listens to Rush Limbaugh 3 straight hours per day, 5 days per week and reruns on weekends?

  • LOL
    Sept. 12, 2008 3:44 p.m.

    "So conservatives are the only ones who have painted their opponents in a negative light?"

    I listen to NRP out of San Francisco. This is the same city Mike Savage lives in. They aired the GOP convention without interruptions.

    There's a black program at midnight. They aired only black conservatives. These conservatives talked about why they were conservatives. There was no talking over them. They weren't cut off. They were thanked.

    There was a great interview with Barry Goldwater Jr. He was given time to talk. There were no attacks. I gained a respect for him and his father.

    Compare this treatment to how liberals get treated on Fox.

    My family were once oppressed Mormons. I agree with many conservatives. I will not be part of Limbaugh or Fox News. I like civility.

    I'm against any group that singles out another group to blame for their problems.

    "It is convenient for the liberals to blame everything on Rush. That way they don't have to take responsibility for their failure. "It's Rush's fault."

    It's not Rush, you had free will. I listened to Rush. I uncovered too many lies. Trickle down is a lie. As it worked?

  • Nobody listens to Limbaugh
    Sept. 12, 2008 3:27 p.m.

    Utah claims it the most conservative state in America (indeed it is the reddest).
    Rush Limbaugh is the high priest of conservatism.
    Part of Limbaugh's repetoire is making fun of people with incurable diseases (ie., Michael J. Fox) because they are "liberal" - a word that Limbaugh demonizes in every phrase he speaks.
    Utah has the honor of being his largest radio audience.
    Nobody in Utah claims to listen to Rush Limbaugh.


  • Rush
    Sept. 12, 2008 3:06 p.m.

    It is convenient for the liberals to blame everything on Rush. That way they don't have to take responsibility for their failure. "It's Rush's fault".

    If you have an excuse, you don't have to improve.

  • Big Al
    Sept. 12, 2008 3:01 p.m.

    There you go again! Accusing me if having a mind of mush and not having any substance. Then you make a generalized statement with NO substance about all conservatives.

    I have many liberal friends. Not all of them feel so superior as you seem to.

    Go ahead, tell me again how much smarter Kerry is than Bush, or Obama than McCain, or Gore than anyone else in this world. I've heard it all before.

    When Dems quit looking down their noses at anyone who disagrees with them, they may begin to connect with common Americans again. But as long as they look down their noses at middle America as bitter Americans who "cling to their guns and their religion with antipathy to all those who don't agree with them" they will suffer embarrassing defeats.

    The stars are all lined up for the dems this year, so why is Obama falling further and further behind in the polls? It's those darned bitter Americans again. I hope that the senate and house democrats ride Obama's coattails down to defeat.

  • Anonymous
    Sept. 12, 2008 2:56 p.m.

    Call it whatever you want but the fact remains that the largest listening audience of that nasty Rush Limbaugh Show is none other than the Utah.

    Some of the posts above prove the negative influence this terrible man has over so many people.

    He appeals to the lowest common denominator and the extremists of Utah hasn't let him down yet.

  • Re "minds to mush | 12:20 p.m."
    Sept. 12, 2008 2:51 p.m.

    And your posting wasn't Propaganda?

    To me your posting was more mindless than anything I've ever heard on Rush (and I'm not a regular listener, I just catch him occasionally when I'm in the car with my father in law at the right hour). Not enough to get brain damage.

    Many things Rush says actually make sense to me and are based on actual events and facts (of course laced with a heavy dose of opinion, bias, ego and yes even humor).

    Actually I don't consider what you and Rush do as "Propaganda". I think "Partisan Rhetoric". describes it better.

    But if you think your shtick is somehow more forthright and unbiased than Rush's, your smoke'n some baaaad stuff.

    I wish more on the left could try to understand the conservative philosophy and not just dismiss it out of hand as "Inspired by Rush" or some other wing-nut. To me it makes perfect sense. It's the same philosphy my parents and grandparents had (and they came LONG before Rush).

    Blaming it all on Rush is not productive (but I think you already know that).

  • re: Big Al
    Sept. 12, 2008 2:27 p.m.

    The fact that Big Al (in his best Rush Limbaugh impression) can only come up with how pesky "the left" is and nothing else of substance to add clearly shows the symptoms of a mind turned to mush.
    Conservatives simply operate from their emotions - never from any intellect or logic.

    Look who they elected to office the last 8 years.

  • @LOL & re Beware
    Sept. 12, 2008 1:50 p.m.

    You'all take personal resposibility out of the equation. This is a great country for those who are willing to work hard and get and education or skills nessasary to make a good living.
    Many who are on welfare are too lazy to get up and do something about it. Why should they with propagandized dupes like you around guilting the worker bees into thinking they shouldn't have most of what they earn.
    Karl Marx: to each according to need, from each according to ability.

  • Big Al
    Sept. 12, 2008 12:51 p.m.

    to minds to mush:

    I do not listen to Rush because I am at work during those hours. But your post just shows the propoganda of the left, if you don't think exactly like the rest of us; it is because your mind is mush, you are not as enlightened as us, or you are just plain rednecks.

    The lefts sence of superiority to everyone who does not believe exactly what they tell them to believe is unreal. No one can agree with Rush unless they are braindead.

    The left does not have a monopoly on such thoughts, however, I remember the right commenting about the two thirds of us Utahns who voted to throw out vouchers, how they were duped by the UEA. It is just the same as the left crying that everyone on the right is duped by Rush.

  • minds to mush
    Sept. 12, 2008 12:20 p.m.

    Recognize propaganda?
    Just listen to Limbaugh for a minute or so.

    I can't see how anyone can stomach this guy for 3 hours a day, 5 days a week. (More Utahns listen to The Rush Limbaugh then any other regional audience)

    Their minds must surely be mush and not ever aware of it.

  • Jeffrey
    Sept. 12, 2008 11:33 a.m.

    The main (and serious) problem is that our society - from the government to religions - have drilled into everyone's heads that answers are good, but questions are bad.

    You don't need to question - which would lead you to your own conclusions - because we'll just tell you all the "answers".

    And your first answer is that we are always right.

  • RE: I have already @ 2:14 am
    Sept. 12, 2008 11:18 a.m.

    So conservatives are the only ones who have painted their opponents in a negative light? I'm pretty sure liberals are just as proficient at it. Your tirade is just as much propaganda as anything any neo-con has said. Your propaganda compared conservatives to Nazis and liberals to innocent Jews. That is the most ridiculous crock I have heard in quite a while. Both sides have huge problems. The decision of the common person is which is the lesser of two evils since both are simply seeking power. I haven't quite decided, but your argument certainly didn't help.

  • Higher Education
    Sept. 12, 2008 11:16 a.m.

    Let's think about this.

    If we believe those who seek (or hold) public office, the purpose of education in America is so that Americans can "compete favorably in the global economy." This is something politicians are not afraid to say because Americans expect them to say it. We believe in it and have made it reality.

    Now, what kind of an economy can survive very long if people don't constantly buy things? What kind of economy will survive the demise of advertising?

    And what is advertising if not propaganda?

    So, what kind of economy will tolerate thoughtful, propaganda-resistant people? And if the purpose of education is to provide a competitive advantage in the global economy, you can be assured that there is at least one thing that our schools will absolutely fail at.

    When I can drive home without seeing a billboard, when I can listen to meaningful political or civic discourse that is not interrupted every 10 minutes for laundry detergent or Viagra; when our political conventions are no longer celebrity-watch burlesques where delegates go to listen to reason instead of hyperbole, then I will say that we have become a people unaffected by propaganda.

  • re Beware
    Sept. 12, 2008 10:30 a.m.

    Beware of those farmers, who if they have two tractors, one powerful and in good condition, the other much less powerful and not in good condition, who require both tractors to do the same work.

    Likewise beware of politicians who want to tax very wealthy corporate heads, more than the single mom janitors who clean their offices, they should both be taxed the same amount.

    I totally agree with you. If we would all work hard and smart we would all be corporate heads, there is no excuse for being poor.

  • LOL
    Sept. 12, 2008 10:28 a.m.

    Beware | 7:19 a.m The purveyors of the noble lies do focus groups to see how their ignorant masses react to words. You don't know what Marxism is and I'm sure you haven't read Das Kapital or majored in government.

    The obvious facts are that the word "socialism" strikes fear.

    Another word, "ownership," polls very well is focus groups.

    We have a nation that identifies with ownership and looks at socialism negatively.

    By definition one can't earn five million thought free enterprise and work and be termed a socialist.

    You've just showed us that the noble lie works. You have started to believe nonsense is true because your emotions have been skillfully played by propagandist.

    Ed, liberals don't like hate and fear mongering. I listen to NPR out of SF. They covered the GOP convention. When, they carried interviews with republicans they let people talk. They never cut a mic or used screaming to drown them out. After the interview they didn't start clarifying or excusing, they politely thanked them.

    Liberals like art, literature, music, science and more. Conservatives find mental stimulation hear talking points endlessly repeated or hearing Nancy called names. Conservatives like bullies who name call.

  • Bob has a good point
    Sept. 12, 2008 10:08 a.m.

    I Ultra bob has a good point. Are state sponcered "Don't Spead" and "Buckle your seatbelt" commercials propaganga?

    We have to use our brain to decide what is "Good" and what isn't... Even with propaganda.

  • Ultra Bob
    Sept. 12, 2008 9:52 a.m.

    The first thing to learn about propaganda is that every thing you see and hear from a human being is propaganda. It started with your mother.

    Fortunately you have a built in defence mechanism called a brain. If you develope the ability to think and reason you can readily cope with propaganda.

    Propaganda is not always bad, sometimes it can actually help make your life better. Like religion for instance.

  • Ed
    Sept. 12, 2008 9:28 a.m.

    Republicans seem pretty comfortable with their black/white worldview, their "clarity", their "belief in the existence of evil" and all that.

    By comparison, liberals regularly tout nuance, shades of grey, etc... There isn't much of an audience for liberal talk radio if you haven't noticed.

    Is it safe to say that the side that killed a bunch of people is the evil side?

  • Utah Independent
    Sept. 12, 2008 9:27 a.m.

    to BEWARE @ 7:19 --- Excellent example of propoganda. Thanks.

  • Chad
    Sept. 12, 2008 8:29 a.m.

    to I Have Already, you have obviously bought into the liberl propoganda as much as conservatives have bought into that propoganda.

    One of the key signs of propoganda is dealing absolutes. So when you assert that ABSOLUTELY "neocons" are evil and ABSOLUTELY liberals are the only intelligent, honest and angelic people on the planet, well that is propoganda.

    NO ONE has all the answer, or all the evil, or all the good. If you can't recognize that (and it appears big chunks of american cannot) then our country is in a truly sad state.

    We get better through cooperation and collaboration, from "leveraging diversity" as the liberals put it. That is true, but the way it is so often applied in politics is "diversity is fine as long as you all agree with me".

    That is not just hypocritical, but self-destructive. No wonder we have wandered so far from the ideals of our founding fathers. We have been led there by the dems and repubs and their immature school-yard spats and their inability to approach problems intelligently, and to leverage true diveristy to get to the best answer possible, not just the one the elite of either side want.

  • uncannygunman
    Sept. 12, 2008 8:01 a.m.

    My only disagreement with the letter is its suggestion that recognizing propaganda is a skill that should be developed in college. I believe it is a critical skill that should be a requirement for graduation from high school!

  • Anonymous
    Sept. 12, 2008 7:37 a.m.

    We used to propagandise externally, through outlets like Radio Free Europe, VOA and Radio Marti. Now we do it internally, and even our own shortwave broadcasts are laden with religious fearmongering and hate speech. It's sad. As noted earlier, Goebbels knew what he was doing, and others have learned.

  • Beware
    Sept. 12, 2008 7:19 a.m.

    of those who COVET what others have and who rationalize that if they have more than you, then it is FAIR for the govt. to seize a part of what they have earned and give it to those who have not.
    Carl Marx is standing right in front of the Democrat Party and they don't notice, or they don't care to notice.

  • Which Propaganda ?
    Sept. 12, 2008 3:31 a.m.

    You mean I shouldn't take what Rush says about Obama, that I should protect my wallet if Obama gets elected president, when all he really said is that he would roll back the Bush tax cuts on those who make over $250,000 per year? and he will lower taxes on everyone else?

    Is this the propaganda you are talking about or something else?

  • I have already
    Sept. 12, 2008 2:14 a.m.

    I read about Dr Joseph Goebbels to get a better feel for how Karl Roves and the conservative thought machine worked. Dr Joseph Goebbels points it all out. Sell patriotism and wars. Use religion liberally. You can find Nazi cartoons that mocked Jews and made Jews look sinister. Compare this to the image of liberals that conservatives have created.

    You need to study the neoconservative movement and Leo Strauss. Leo was the father of neoconservatism. Leo believed that this new conservatism would be control by conservative intellectuals. They would use noble lies to control their masses.

    After you read this read about (Psychological Operations )pychops. There's a army field manual on the Web.