If homosexuals marriages are permitted, why not plural marriages? Wouldn't
it then be their right? Then if plurall marriages are permitted, what about
other group marriages? If that's permitted, what's the purpose of marriage?This is why I feel that permitting homosexuals marriage breaks down the
Proposition 8 will not take away any rights the state has granted to domestic
partners. Gays and lesbians have all the rights any married citizen has, and
can live whatever lifestyle they choose, but they do not have the right to
redefine marriage for the rest of us.Proposition 8 protects marriage
as an essential institution of society. Although death and divorce may prevent
the ideal, the best situation is for a child to be raised by a married mother
and father in the bond of marriage.Proposition 8 says to activists
courts "you can't contradict the will of the people and impose your liberal
views."Proposition 8 restores the definition of marriage as it has
been defined since the founding of our nation, since the beginning of the
world.Proposition 8 puts CA back in synch with the rest of the
states and Federal law. The majority of Americans and both presidential
candidates are against same-sex marriage.
Ryan,If we can marginalize bigots, fascists, and sociopaths in our
society, then that is a good thing!Vote NO on Proposition 8.
I have learned of situations where the Boy Scouts of America are not allowed to
rent public buildings because they are considered a hate group for excluding
homosexuals. That is just one example. There are other repercussions as well,
but you get the picture. My point is: What will happen if churches who oppose
gay marriage are put in the same category?It seems to me that it is
a way to marginalize those who oppose a homosexual lifestyle.
That is a strange sort of "love" you are showing your gay "brothers and sisters"
-- passing a constitutional amendment that guarantees them status as
second-class citizens, removes their equal protection under the law, and hedges
up their way to the pursuit of their own happiness?Saying you "love"
gays but hate homosexual behavior as an excuse for taking away their fundamental
civil rights and equality is the biggest lie Mormons have told since Joseph
Smith claimed to have seen God!You can stop saying you love us. We
know it isn't true. You only make yourselves fools by doing so.
predicition: It is not just the LDS church, the Catholics and evangelical
Christian churches that supports Prop 8, I know cause I am part of the coalition
to save marriage and all three groups are hard at work to get it passed.Lets get another thing straight this is not about hate, we love our gay
brothers and sisters, what we are saying is that marriage should be between a
man and women as GOD has ordained. Read the bible it tills us so.I
have a Uncle who is gay and he suports passing Prop 8. He belives that marrage
should only be between a man and women.
2008: What, racist? The Church has never been racist. 2028:
What, homophobic? The Church has never been homophobic
We are all products of a mother & father. Those who don't recognize the
inherent differences between males & females are confused. Marriage should
remain what it's always been. I will vote against any measure that promotes gay
marriage. Call me hateful, call me a bigot, call me ignorant, and that says a
lot more about you than it does about me. Vote for what you believe in and I'll
vote for what I believe in and hopefully neither of us has any ill feelings
towards one another.
As soon as "Official Declaration #3" is issued allowing temple marriage for
gays, I'll leave the fold.
Now if you lived in Alabama and what those heathens on the west coast are trying
to do makes you wonder why any live there and put up with such nonsense, if more
of those people lived in the South they get back on track to God's ways. I hope
there's enough sensable people left in California to do the right thing and pass
the proposition. Repent and be saved. John 3:16.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Of course you should tell
his wife. She certainly doesn't deserve a sexually transmitted disease if he is
having unprotected sex. Would you want to know if your partner was being
I agree with you completely. "It's not rocket science. Protection of marriage
is good for EVERYONE." Encouraging MORE people (including gay people) to stay
in their loving, committed relationships will be the best thing for society in
general. Let's all do what we can to encourage marriage.
We'll this had to turn ugly. I don't hate gays. God doesn't hate gays. The
church doesn't hate gays. (Here it goes...) My best friend is gay... (Not LDS).
Won't tell his wife, is promiscuous, and I let him know he should not be
cheating or putting himself at risk. But I won't abandon him, even while I
struggle with my own conscience I am trying to "honor" his confidentiality. I
hate what he's doing to her and the kids...I don't hate him. If he was
heterosexual and unfaithful I would be equally concerned and not at peace.
What's your advice here? If I love him and his wife, do I tell? Point is...my
religion doesn't have one effect on my confusion. The church cannot do an about
face on sin.
Our societal structure, like every stable societal structure throughout history,
is based upon the traditional family unit. Whenever this traditional family
unit has been undermined, and no longer supported by laws and/or social values,
that society has collapsed within a few generations. This situation occurs in
times of war, famine, or as in the case of the Roman Empire, moral decay. It is
the children who suffer, as men and women reproduce, but then fail to maintain a
relationship long enough to raise the child to adulthood. Usually this results
in poverty and emotional stress for the remaining parent, and this intern leads
to increased risk of abuse and/or neglect for the child. Abused and/or
neglected children are in turn impaired in their ability to form and maintain
normal social relationships. It's not rocket science. Protection
of marriage is good for everyone. It was established by God for a reason.
I predict that LDS will continue to hate gay people for about 20 years. Then the
Church will have an about face and pretend it never happened.
Your Hatred filled rant against religious people is completely off target.The religious people just want to be free to practice their religion
publically and have the right to decide what their communites will be like.It is hate fill liberals like you and commmunist based organizations
like the aclu that have sued to force your ways and views on everyone else,thus forcing the federal government into the argument.Those
fighting to define marriage have been fighting state by state passing laws to
define marriage, no attempt to appeal to the federal govenment has happened.In fact by vote of the people of califonia had already decided for
themselves, it was the liberals that have gone to the courts to take that
decision away from the good people of the state of CA.It was the
liberal that allowed the federal government get involved in abortion and not
allowing the states to decide for themselves.It has been lawsuits
and seeking federal funding by liberals/aclu/unions, that've forced federal
control into our schools,I cannot think of one thing the religious
people have petitioned to the federal government for unless its for the
safe guarding their religious freedoms.
The issue of marriage laws is a State's Rights issue, not a Federal one, not a
religious one, not a special interests one... but for each and every State in
the nation to determine for their own selves.If Utah is
straight-based marriage in its laws and California is not, then those who want
to same-sex marry, need to go to California and get married there and if they
want their marriage to be recognized then they need to stay in California and
reap the benefits of that State's stance on the law, and not go back to Utah
expecting the same.Believe it or not, it's the religious
conservative wackos who have created this morass that has taken more and more
away from States, while giving the Federal government the permission to meddle.
Thank you, but NO THANK YOU for what you neo-con religious zealots have done to
ruin the Constitutional check-&-balances and safeguards this nation was
I support Proposition 8 for two reasons: One, because I believe marriage should
be between a man and a woman. That's my personal belief based on my religious
teachings. I agree that there may be good arguments against it, but we don't
have to always have the better argument just to excercise our right to vote.Second, I support it because it's a state proposition on marriage, which
is a state issue. 'Caulifornia' has the right to choose for itself.Additionally, heterosexuals should know that when they don't take their vows
seriously, they do a disservice to any moral argument regarding marriage. It's
kind of like the US telling Russia to respect Georgia's borders. The problem
with taking the moral high road is that everyone can see you when you're on it
and when you're not.
James...I'm fine with your situation, although I could argue "logic" all day
with examples on both sides. I don't want my children being taught BY LAW that
gender just doesnt matter in ANYTHING, as its already basically eliminated in CA
(including areas than have severely hurt women). I actually believe children
deserve a good mom and dad (even if utopian in thought). I want my clergy to be
able to decide if they want to NOT do same-sex marriage or face STATE/FEDERAL
controlled consequences. Doctor's should be able to use their own moral guide
and not be punished...no different than you not wanting to be punished. To me
it's not about preventing relationships...it's when the majority is ruled by
minority wants. Remember...this was already voted on and passed with more than
60% in the most liberal state in the USA! Its not the failure of the
proposition I fearits all the legal elements that will follow that I believe can
negatively affect society and tie up the court system for years. Polygamist
will have a field day here, since all the traditional marriage laws (including
minimum age) will be challenged. I just dont think everyone has thought this
Texas wrote: "James--You can set up any straw man you want, but until you and
your boyfriend can make a baby, there's no reason to get married."My
sister and her husband were unable to "make" a baby, and recently adopted
through LDS Social Services. By this logic, they should never have gotten
married. Yet they did. In the temple, even.My widowed aunt married a
nice older gentleman. Her children were grown and she was past menopause. Yet
she, too, got married. Also in the temple.There are reasons to get
married that don't involve having a baby. While my wife and I certainly had
children in mind when we married, the number one reason we got married was
because we loved each other. Absent evidence to the contrary, I assume that gay
couples have the same motive.
You people need to study CA law. Marriage (by law) is taught starting in
Kindergarten, and the curriculum would be re-written and FORCED (that is
correct...FORCED) to ignore gender as even a consideration. Fertility doctors
refusing to artificially inseminate a female (even for personal reason) will not
be able to obtain malpractice insurance. BIG ONE HERE...Churches refusing to
marry gays (who would have state CONSTITUTIONAL law protection) will lose their
tax exempt status. YOU THINK NO WAY? This will be the first challenge in
court, as religions cant refuse CONSTITUTIONAL rights and be tax exempt. Then
there is the list of "who knows what will happen" stuff. Rememberin CA, gays
already have EVERY SINGLE RIGHT under family laws for health care and social
program support. Believe me...it's coming your way. Once the federal
government determines it must provide "joint" filings for taxes to same-sex
couples (already on the agenda)...it will spin through the country like
wildfire. THIS is what "separation between church and state" actually was meant
to protect. You bloggers need to study the changes before you post your opinion
or you will look ignorant to those of us actually being affected.
James--You can set up any straw man you want, but until you and your
boyfriend can make a baby, there's no reason to get married.
Government recognition of same-sex marriage leads to government endorsement of
same-sex marriage and hostility to individuals and organizations that disagree
with it. This has led to government revoking licenses to religious-based
adoption agencies that refuse to place children with same-sex couples and
compelling physicians to inseminate lesbian couples. This has also led
government to withhold funding to religious schools that refuse to teach that
same-sex marriage is okay. In Denmark, ministers have been prosecuted for hate
speach. In Canada, a political commentator is being proscecuted for hate
speach.Proposition 8 is more about protecting those who disagree
with same-sex marriage than denying rights to same-sex couples. Under
California's domestic partnership law, same-sex couples enjoy all of the
benefits of marriage.There are good people on both sides of this
issue. And there are gay people who oppose same-sex marriage and support
KingM said: "Because my great-great-great grandfather had two wives didn't mean
that traditional marriages started to dissolve all throughout the country.
Similarly, having gay couples marry in California isn't going to force my wife
and me to get a divorce."Do you really think that's the main
argument that opponents of gay marriage rely on--that gay marriage will somehow
force heterosexuals to divorce?The Newsroom's statement (linked in
the article) discusses the Church's reasoning. I'd invite you to read it and
provide an intelligent response to it.
Well, it was a serious discussion until it ended with a quote from Trash Calls.
Matilda wrote: "If the one-man/one-woman definition of marriage is broken, there
is no logical stopping point for continuing the assault on marriage."I know, it might even lead to polygamy. Horrors.Seriously, my
ancestors fled the United States in large part to practice a unique definition
of marriage. Because my great-great-great grandfather had two wives didn't mean
that traditional marriages started to dissolve all throughout the country.
Similarly, having gay couples marry in California isn't going to force my wife
and me to get a divorce.
keeping marrage sacred...lets see, for me and my boyfriend of 23 years to get
married would be bad but if a drunk, hetrosexual couple meet in a bar after a
one night aquaitance and after a huge booze and drugs binge and decide to get
married....thats ok. call this bias what it is homophobia. just like the whole
embarassing blacks issue is now swept under the lds rug, one day there will be a
lot of sweeping on this issue. get over your homophobia now and save
Kudos. An excellent summary of where the Bloggernacle is currently at with this
When marriage loses its unique status, women and children most frequently are
the direct victims. Giving same-sex relationships or out-of-wedlock heterosexual
couples the same special status and benefits as the marital bond would not be
the expansion of a right but the destruction of a principle. . If the
one-man/one-woman definition of marriage is broken, there is no logical stopping
point for continuing the assault on marriage.