Wisan says the goal of reforming the trust is to put FLDS property in the hands
of the families every chance he gets. He never told anyone that the goal is to
prevent FLDS families from owning the property - the exact opposite of what he
is trying to do. Willie Jessop got up and told that lie in court so that a false
claim that started with him would become part of the record. This is more of
the FLDS leadership's continuing efforts to discredit anyone who opposes them.
Here, they're after Wisan and the judge. People are supposed to believe
Jessop's baloney instead of the open process of reforming the trust.Actually, in the real world, there is less work for concubines than
there is for rocket sciences. So, it would be wise to rear girls for something
other than what the FLDS leaders demand.
Golly gee RC.....a pilot or rocket scientist. Don't wish for them
such an unstable career. Nasa has farmed out most of the rocket scientist jobs
to other countries and the airlines are going broke. The only
smiteing going on here is being done by the state of Texas one dollar at a
time. Perhaps the girls can get a job as anonymous callers. I hear that
Texas has a real need for anonymous callers......they're still looking for
and for the record, there's nothing wrong with religious instruction and free
choice to teach religious beliefs to children. But teaching and indoctrination
are two different things. And when you through in isolation so the subject
(victim?) cannot make their own fair decisions then it is no longer religious
teachings - it's repression and control.And if you throw in the fact
that if the person wants a different life they have to foresake everything they
have ever known, you get into Stockholm Syndrome. So when is it abuse?There are multiple things the FLDS could do to give their children a fair
break, but since they ACTUALLY BELIEVE that the world will end soon, they live
their life in fear under that assumption. So there is really no point in the
child asking to go to college. What do you need an education for if the world
is going to end? No wonder the FLDS response is often - "they are allowed but
they choose not to".Of course, there will be FLDS reading this and
saying "you just wait - it'll happen and I'll say I told you so". There have
even been posts to that effect.
zxcvbnmall you're telling me is that you don't get what I'm saying.
no wonder I keep saying it in different words - so eventually you will actually
understand what I am saying.and yes - a life of servitude. what
don't you understand? it's not rocket science...The FLDS teach
their children that God will come down fairly soon (and the date has actually
passed several times) and smite everyone but them. So if you leave, you will be
smite with everyone else so you better not stray.I compare that
teaching of fear, and their practice of solitude and isolation from modern day
society, to parents that teach their children that at a certain age they MUST
chop off their hands and feet or they will go to hell. Pretty much determines
what their entire life will be like. So, is that abuse? At what point are
religious teaching considered abuse?I think it's when free will and
self-determination are removed. FLDS teachings remove free will through fear
and allow for no self-determination, through isolation.How many FLDS
girls would like to be a pilot or scientist? but they can't because they'll be
smite and banished. Comprende?
Still at it RC.........servitude now.....new catch word for religious
instruction and free choice to decideing to teach religious beliefs to
children. How many women and for that matter chidren of the flds have to
write to this forum and describe their education and their decision to follow
the religious teachings of their choice. Someone accused me of repeating
the same old stuff..........I think you need to repackage your message and leave
out the broad accusations and book peddler buzz words.
re nosugrofactually I do understand them quite well. someone wrote
a book and then some guys made up some rules and so no they all live this REALLY
restrictive lifestyle that removes free will from women and children.I "understand" them fine. I just don't think it's fair for modern day
children to be forced to live like that forever. And their teachings pretty
much force women and children into a permanent life of servitude.The
FLDS think every word in the bible and book of mormon is a rule. That's fine
for adults, but children have no chance to make up their own mind on what they
believe, so are trapped into that life. Totally unfair for the children. And
the FLDS made a rule for every line in these books except the main one - do unto
others. If they followed that one, no one would be forced to marry anyone,
prople could go to college, etc. But since men made all their rules to keep
them in line, they are stuck being repressed and stupid.I understand
them all too well. Free the children.
The "religious test" of not allowing the FLDS to enter into a land
trust is much the same as the results of the relatively recent priest problem
experienced by the Catholic Church. Land owned by the church and
"rented" to others for as little as one dollar a year was sold to the
"renters" The church cited liability issues, and it needed money to pay
legal fees. I am not sure if the courts ordered the sale but it was done just
The fact is that if FLDS want to have deeds to their homes, there will be a
restriction that they can not deed (or tithe) their homes to their church. Does
that restriction apply to the other people on UEP land that are LDS or Baptist,
Catholic or belong to another polygamous church?From what I have seen it
only applies to FLDS...is that not a religious test?
There are many victims within the FLDS community. Their leadership had abused
and taken advantage of them for generations. I hope they get a fair shake. I
have no doubt that the court will do it's best to treat everyone equitably but
the people need to work with them.These people have been ripped off
by Warren Jeffs and his ilk for many years. Since he has publicly announced
that he is a FALSE PROPHET, I hope the FLDS people will finally get out of
denial and begin to participate in their own future.
Reality check you dont understand these people at all.
yeah - let them all go to Texas. That would work real well. You think I'm
against the FLDS practices? I'm not even religious. Try a bunch of southern
baptists - they would go bezerk....great idea, zxcvbnm.I
wish I was rich. I'd build a little village within walking distance of Short
Creek with a big sign saying - "You don't like to be repressed and abused? You
want freedom? You're welcome here."There would be about 200 FLDS
(all men) still in Short Creek in about a week. The rest would go to college,
start businesses, live as free people, and have a future of their choosing. (Of
course there would be those that are so indoctrinated that they would stay. but
at least their kids would leave first chance they got.)Personally, I
can't imagine being in that kind of environment. It boggles the mind that
anyone puts up with it. Scary stuff.
Joey...Since they all want to live together YFZ is wide open. As long as
they don't marry 12 year olds or openly declare their multiple "spiritual"
marraiges noone can take anything. They will have to build a new church
since their former temple was desecrated but hey........Schleicher County needs
a new Sheriff and ole Willie is big enough....no need to eat as many doughnuts
re: zxcvbnm | 2:39 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008 ...Maybe they can apply for
asylum in the Federated States of Russia. There's plenty of land in Siberia that
needs to be developed and populated.They could seek asylum on the
grounds of religious persecution in the autocratic country they live in, the
USA, controlled by an oppressive overclass that stifles religious freedoms.Just an idea.
Precisely, Ohio! As to the question of WHY the monies are going to
the professionals, they had to be hired to protect the FLDSers' Trust from the
many pending lawsuits at the time that Warren was ignoring!I guess
Warren thought that his goon squad would intimidate the people who filed
lawsuits into backing down. That's the ONLY reason I can come up with that he
didn't lift a finger to protect the Trust's assets.The above
assumption is based on if Warren even gave a cr*p about the Trust being for the
FLDSers, and not for the purpose of financing his being on the lam.Of course a logical person would go for the latter assumption.
lol joey"It is distressing that these monies are going to experts
and lawyers rather than the beneficiaries," Lindberg said.---------Gee, I wonder whose fault that is, FLDS...If you would
attend a simple meeting instead of hiding all frightened in your little world,
maybe this whole thing would have already been resolved.And for the
record, when you give everything you have to a church (or corporate entity in
this case) then it is no longer yours.You might want to read that
again. Here it is in caps:IF YOU GIVE AWAY YOUR PROPERTY AND MONEY,
THEY ARE NO LONGER YOURS. Most people already know that, but figured you needed
a common sense reminder.And if you're going to listen to Joey and
"abandon the properties and build a community out of reach of greedy lawyers",
might I suggest Saudi Arabia? They seem to be in your camp as far as denial of
rights, religious indoctrination, repression, multiple wives with no rights,
child brides, etc. But they don't isolate themselves from everyone
so that might not work for you. There's always the mountains of Afghanistan.
But the Taliban don't like competition in the abuse arena....
Joey, you can fault the pedophile leaders of the FLDS who lie, cheat, steal and
defraud the supposed beneficiaries of the UEP while still finding time to molest
and otherwise abuse children (all in the name of God of course), for the
lawsuits. If there were no basis (as the FLDS likes to pretend) for the
lawsuits, they would have been dismissed a long time ago.I rather doubt
that when the families turned their property over to the UEP, they expected
"Uncle Warren" to run around committing crimes and using their hard-earned
property to run from his legal troubles.
Re Joey: Many have abandoned these properties....they went to Texas and we all
know what happened. How fair does anyone think a "fair distribution"
will be when a majority on the Wisan advisory board are ex-flds?
Ahhh, so it appears as though Willie wanted the Judge to go on the record so
they know what they're up against. As someone from another forum
said, "Hmmmm... Perhaps with the possibility of more indictments the FLDS is in
need of some cash."
"It is distressing that these monies are going to experts and lawyers rather
than the beneficiaries," Lindberg said-----------Gee, I wonder
who's fault that is Lindberg...FLDS, just abandon these properties
and let them go to waste. Go build a community somewhere where you'll be out of
the reach of greedy lawyers and biased judges.