Judge wants fair FLDS property allocation

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  • Interloper
    Aug. 16, 2008 1:36 a.m.

    Wisan says the goal of reforming the trust is to put FLDS property in the hands of the families every chance he gets. He never told anyone that the goal is to prevent FLDS families from owning the property - the exact opposite of what he is trying to do. Willie Jessop got up and told that lie in court so that a false claim that started with him would become part of the record. This is more of the FLDS leadership's continuing efforts to discredit anyone who opposes them. Here, they're after Wisan and the judge. People are supposed to believe Jessop's baloney instead of the open process of reforming the trust.

    Actually, in the real world, there is less work for concubines than there is for rocket sciences. So, it would be wise to rear girls for something other than what the FLDS leaders demand.

  • zxcvbnm
    Aug. 15, 2008 3:10 p.m.

    Golly gee RC.....a pilot or rocket scientist.
    Don't wish for them such an unstable career. Nasa has farmed out most of the rocket scientist jobs to other countries and the airlines are going broke.

    The only smiteing going on here is being done by the state of Texas one dollar at a time.
    Perhaps the girls can get a job as anonymous callers. I hear that Texas has a real need for anonymous callers......they're still looking for "Sarah".

  • realitycheck
    Aug. 15, 2008 2:51 p.m.

    and for the record, there's nothing wrong with religious instruction and free choice to teach religious beliefs to children. But teaching and indoctrination are two different things. And when you through in isolation so the subject (victim?) cannot make their own fair decisions then it is no longer religious teachings - it's repression and control.

    And if you throw in the fact that if the person wants a different life they have to foresake everything they have ever known, you get into Stockholm Syndrome. So when is it abuse?

    There are multiple things the FLDS could do to give their children a fair break, but since they ACTUALLY BELIEVE that the world will end soon, they live their life in fear under that assumption. So there is really no point in the child asking to go to college. What do you need an education for if the world is going to end? No wonder the FLDS response is often - "they are allowed but they choose not to".

    Of course, there will be FLDS reading this and saying "you just wait - it'll happen and I'll say I told you so". There have even been posts to that effect.

  • realitycheck
    Aug. 15, 2008 2:21 p.m.


    all you're telling me is that you don't get what I'm saying. no wonder I keep saying it in different words - so eventually you will actually understand what I am saying.

    and yes - a life of servitude. what don't you understand? it's not rocket science...

    The FLDS teach their children that God will come down fairly soon (and the date has actually passed several times) and smite everyone but them. So if you leave, you will be smite with everyone else so you better not stray.

    I compare that teaching of fear, and their practice of solitude and isolation from modern day society, to parents that teach their children that at a certain age they MUST chop off their hands and feet or they will go to hell. Pretty much determines what their entire life will be like. So, is that abuse? At what point are religious teaching considered abuse?

    I think it's when free will and self-determination are removed. FLDS teachings remove free will through fear and allow for no self-determination, through isolation.

    How many FLDS girls would like to be a pilot or scientist? but they can't because they'll be smite and banished. Comprende?

  • zxcvbnm
    Aug. 15, 2008 12:32 p.m.

    Still at it RC.........servitude now.....new catch word for religious instruction and free choice to decideing to teach religious beliefs to children.
    How many women and for that matter chidren of the flds have to write to this forum and describe their education and their decision to follow the religious teachings of their choice.
    Someone accused me of repeating the same old stuff..........I think you need to repackage your message and leave out the broad accusations and book peddler buzz words.

  • realitycheck
    Aug. 15, 2008 8:55 a.m.

    re nosugrof

    actually I do understand them quite well. someone wrote a book and then some guys made up some rules and so no they all live this REALLY restrictive lifestyle that removes free will from women and children.

    I "understand" them fine. I just don't think it's fair for modern day children to be forced to live like that forever. And their teachings pretty much force women and children into a permanent life of servitude.

    The FLDS think every word in the bible and book of mormon is a rule. That's fine for adults, but children have no chance to make up their own mind on what they believe, so are trapped into that life. Totally unfair for the children. And the FLDS made a rule for every line in these books except the main one - do unto others. If they followed that one, no one would be forced to marry anyone, prople could go to college, etc. But since men made all their rules to keep them in line, they are stuck being repressed and stupid.

    I understand them all too well. Free the children.

  • zxcvbnm
    Aug. 15, 2008 8:41 a.m.

    The "religious test" of not allowing the FLDS to enter into a land trust is much the same as the results of the relatively recent priest problem experienced by the Catholic Church.
    Land owned by the church and "rented" to others for as little as one dollar a year was sold to the "renters"
    The church cited liability issues, and it needed money to pay legal fees. I am not sure if the courts ordered the sale but it was done just the same.

  • no religious test?
    Aug. 15, 2008 8:00 a.m.

    The fact is that if FLDS want to have deeds to their homes, there will be a restriction that they can not deed (or tithe) their homes to their church. Does that restriction apply to the other people on UEP land that are LDS or Baptist, Catholic or belong to another polygamous church?
    From what I have seen it only applies to FLDS...is that not a religious test?

  • Foolish
    Aug. 14, 2008 8:18 p.m.


  • Cats
    Aug. 14, 2008 7:35 p.m.

    There are many victims within the FLDS community. Their leadership had abused and taken advantage of them for generations. I hope they get a fair shake. I have no doubt that the court will do it's best to treat everyone equitably but the people need to work with them.

    These people have been ripped off by Warren Jeffs and his ilk for many years. Since he has publicly announced that he is a FALSE PROPHET, I hope the FLDS people will finally get out of denial and begin to participate in their own future.

  • nosugrof
    Aug. 14, 2008 7:22 p.m.

    Reality check you dont understand these people at all.

  • realitycheck
    Aug. 14, 2008 5:43 p.m.

    yeah - let them all go to Texas. That would work real well. You think I'm against the FLDS practices? I'm not even religious. Try a bunch of southern baptists - they would go bezerk....

    great idea, zxcvbnm.

    I wish I was rich. I'd build a little village within walking distance of Short Creek with a big sign saying - "You don't like to be repressed and abused? You want freedom? You're welcome here."

    There would be about 200 FLDS (all men) still in Short Creek in about a week. The rest would go to college, start businesses, live as free people, and have a future of their choosing. (Of course there would be those that are so indoctrinated that they would stay. but at least their kids would leave first chance they got.)

    Personally, I can't imagine being in that kind of environment. It boggles the mind that anyone puts up with it. Scary stuff.

  • zxcvbnm
    Aug. 14, 2008 5:08 p.m.

    Joey...Since they all want to live together YFZ is wide open. As long as they don't marry 12 year olds or openly declare their multiple "spiritual" marraiges noone can take anything.
    They will have to build a new church since their former temple was desecrated but hey........Schleicher County needs a new Sheriff and ole Willie is big enough....no need to eat as many doughnuts as Doran.

  • Joey
    Aug. 14, 2008 4:22 p.m.

    re: zxcvbnm | 2:39 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

    ...Maybe they can apply for asylum in the Federated States of Russia. There's plenty of land in Siberia that needs to be developed and populated.

    They could seek asylum on the grounds of religious persecution in the autocratic country they live in, the USA, controlled by an oppressive overclass that stifles religious freedoms.

    Just an idea.

  • GiGi13
    Aug. 14, 2008 3:48 p.m.

    Precisely, Ohio!

    As to the question of WHY the monies are going to the professionals, they had to be hired to protect the FLDSers' Trust from the many pending lawsuits at the time that Warren was ignoring!

    I guess Warren thought that his goon squad would intimidate the people who filed lawsuits into backing down. That's the ONLY reason I can come up with that he didn't lift a finger to protect the Trust's assets.

    The above assumption is based on if Warren even gave a cr*p about the Trust being for the FLDSers, and not for the purpose of financing his being on the lam.

    Of course a logical person would go for the latter assumption.

  • realitycheck
    Aug. 14, 2008 3:05 p.m.

    lol joey

    "It is distressing that these monies are going to experts and lawyers rather than the beneficiaries," Lindberg said.

    Gee, I wonder whose fault that is, FLDS...

    If you would attend a simple meeting instead of hiding all frightened in your little world, maybe this whole thing would have already been resolved.

    And for the record, when you give everything you have to a church (or corporate entity in this case) then it is no longer yours.

    You might want to read that again. Here it is in caps:

    IF YOU GIVE AWAY YOUR PROPERTY AND MONEY, THEY ARE NO LONGER YOURS. Most people already know that, but figured you needed a common sense reminder.

    And if you're going to listen to Joey and "abandon the properties and build a community out of reach of greedy lawyers", might I suggest Saudi Arabia? They seem to be in your camp as far as denial of rights, religious indoctrination, repression, multiple wives with no rights, child brides, etc.

    But they don't isolate themselves from everyone so that might not work for you. There's always the mountains of Afghanistan. But the Taliban don't like competition in the abuse arena....

  • Ohio
    Aug. 14, 2008 2:58 p.m.

    Joey, you can fault the pedophile leaders of the FLDS who lie, cheat, steal and defraud the supposed beneficiaries of the UEP while still finding time to molest and otherwise abuse children (all in the name of God of course), for the lawsuits. If there were no basis (as the FLDS likes to pretend) for the lawsuits, they would have been dismissed a long time ago.
    I rather doubt that when the families turned their property over to the UEP, they expected "Uncle Warren" to run around committing crimes and using their hard-earned property to run from his legal troubles.

  • zxcvbnm
    Aug. 14, 2008 2:39 p.m.

    Re Joey: Many have abandoned these properties....they went to Texas and we all know what happened.
    How fair does anyone think a "fair distribution" will be when a majority on the Wisan advisory board are ex-flds?

  • GiGi13
    Aug. 14, 2008 2:20 p.m.

    Ahhh, so it appears as though Willie wanted the Judge to go on the record so they know what they're up against.

    As someone from another forum said, "Hmmmm... Perhaps with the possibility of more indictments the FLDS is in need of some cash."

  • Joey
    Aug. 14, 2008 2:07 p.m.

    "It is distressing that these monies are going to experts and lawyers rather than the beneficiaries," Lindberg said

    Gee, I wonder who's fault that is Lindberg...

    FLDS, just abandon these properties and let them go to waste. Go build a community somewhere where you'll be out of the reach of greedy lawyers and biased judges.