5 indicted FLDS men surrender to Texas authorities

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  • LilMac is right
    July 29, 2008 8:42 p.m.

    I agree with LilMac. Look at the men's ages in this article: 57, 56, 33, etc. allegedly having sex with little girls. I work in a junior high so I can call them little girls, that's what a 14-15 year old girl is. Kids at that age are not ready for marriage and child bearing. Let the kids be kids and allow them to grow up and decide for themselves whom to marry and when.

  • LilMac
    July 29, 2008 7:20 p.m.

    Regardless of anyone's religious beliefs, statutory rape is against the law is every state. Sex with minors, consensual or not, is against the law in every state. If the FLDS adults don't know that, too bad. Ignorance of the law is no excuse nor is it a defense. Those of us who live outside the FLDS have to live by the laws of our states and our government. The FLDS is no exception.

  • zxcvbnm
    July 29, 2008 5:25 p.m.


    Hey there Southern Baptist.......I hear yall have some pretty strange rituals. By the way....the biggest protest in the State to the Hildrbrand law was from the east Texas Baptists.....gotta love those guys from east Texas wanting to marry 14 year olds.......but they do it one at a time then divorce.

  • Southern Baptist
    July 29, 2008 1:05 p.m.

    Aren't you Mormons being a bit sanctimonious when in fact it was your ancestors who started this whole mess? Please do not tell me that "times were different then" and that they didn't marry teenagers too. Some of my ancestors were "Mormon royalty." I am just glad that their most of their posterity eventually saw through it all and left all that nonsense behind.

  • woohoo
    July 29, 2008 12:43 p.m.

    How can you "not afford" the golden rule? Are you expecting everyone to buy you expensive cars???

  • realitycheck
    July 29, 2008 12:40 p.m.

    Sleuth - part of the problem with the quoting of biblical phrases to make a point is your assumption that the Bible is a work of fact rather than fiction.

    In many minds, the bible was written to impart guidelines on how to approach a compassionate life, rather than an actual documentation of factual events.

    Quoting from the bible is therefore tantamount to quoting from any other self-help book. So the specific characters have less meaning than the general concept being imparted, which is valid to all readers. After all, everyone knows God didn't write the bible - it was written by men. And the talking snake and other references tend to lend credence that the book is written conceptually rather than historically.

    I know many will be screaming "blasphemy", yet perhaps not live as empathetically as they should. More focus on the concepts (do unto others, etc), and less on the individual phrases, would move many religions from their current restrictive and abusive practices to a more open and free (and compassionate) society.

    The FLDS has taken every little word and turned it into a restriction or a rule. I disagree that was the intention of the authors.

  • to realitycheck
    July 29, 2008 12:14 p.m.

    Not all of us can afford to "do unto others what we would have them to do us."
    ...so we follow our own morals, our own heritage, and do the best we can.

  • From the Creek
    July 29, 2008 11:58 a.m.

    "look at the bright side, Cats - if Deseret comments had spell-check we wouldn't know who was FLDS and who wasn't. This way it's obvious...."
    ==============
    I've seen plenty of misspellings and poor grammar on both sides of the issue, realitycheck. It does make me wonder if people aren't aware what those red squiggles mean. :)

    Cats,
    A photo of a fully dressed man kissing a fully dressed woman (or girl) is not evidence of any "crime." I saw an ad a while ago on either this site or the Salt Lake Tribune where there was an older man kissing a VERY young child (probably no older than 4.) Until you can prove that there was any sexual contact, you have no case. As for giving us our freedoms, sure, go ahead. Just make sure that those of us who want to continue to be brainwashed and repressed are allowed to do so.

    You are seriously misinformed about us not knowing anything about the outside world and that the wives are watched every moment to make sure they don't "escape." They seem to have no trouble at all escaping to St. George. Just visit Wal-Mart and you'll know. :)

  • realitycheck
    July 29, 2008 11:56 a.m.

    re - "to realitycheck" 10:50am:

    It is a sad reflection that you feel that way. I live a free life, and my only life rule is:

    "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

    This is not a religious concept - it is a social concept. And if everyone followed this simple rule, the world would be a wonderful place. Ask yourself - how does this apply to the FLDS?

    Would the person assigning someone to a marriage really want that done to themselves?

    Would the person reassigning a family and kicking out a follower really want that done to themselves?

    Would the parent removing their young boy from school and being sent to work a construction site really want that done to themselves, knowing that it lowers education and hampers future life choices?

    Would the mother of a young girl really want to get married and pregnant at that young age?

    Forget about all your rules and simply put yourself in the shoes of the person most affected by your actions, and change your actions so they are most beneficial to the person most affected.

    That will solve your prison problem.

  • to sleuth
    July 29, 2008 11:51 a.m.

    is the FLDS paying you to defend them?

  • Sleuth
    July 29, 2008 11:21 a.m.

    About Jeffs "False Prophet" proclamations, persons with superior integrity than Jeffs have made self-condemnation statements in the face of devastating sense of defeat and have not lost credibility. Paul proclaims (Romans 7:24.) he is a "wretched man." It could also be argued Prophet Job denied his efficacy saying, "Let the day perish wherein I was born Let not God regard it Let them curse it " (Job 3:1-5.) Both men thought poor of themselves in these moments. Each made self-incriminating statements, yet both are highly revered by people of the highest integrities.

    By the way, have you ever proved objectively that a prophet is "a true prophet," based solely upon empirical evidence? Whether or not Jeffs is or is not a prophet is irrelevant.

    Whether or not polygamy is intrinsically evil is not at issue. Those charges may be driving the persecution, and if so that would be wrong.

    The real issues are statutory misconduct (sexual intercourse, rape) with minors by adults and the criminal denial of individual constitutional rights. This of course must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law and beyond the purview of the sensational biased media.

  • Sleuth
    July 29, 2008 10:47 a.m.

    Why hold a trial they are already guilty as charged; right?

    Theresa: I hardly think someone's "got it right" when men are said to have flagrantly broken the law (as is supposed by allegations) for many years and prosecutors need to convene an act of congress prior to prosecuting the, with standing law. That sounds a bit contrived. Once on notice, all of the men turned themselves in with no resistance.

    It's silly that on one hand CAT says with an unequivocal presumption of guilt, "These men are flaunting the law and victimizing women and children." Then she says, "IF THESE MEN ARE GUILTY" posing some doubts. But the she says again, "I hope they are convicted and sentenced to the fullest extent of the law." Cat's statement demonstrates something troubling regarding CAT's convictions and honesty.

    I think we need to reserve judgment until the trials conclusion.

  • to realitycheck
    July 29, 2008 10:50 a.m.

    Reality check. We are all living in our own separate prisons.

  • Mama Kate
    July 29, 2008 10:40 a.m.

    well said, realitycheck.

  • realitycheck
    July 29, 2008 10:37 a.m.

    look at the bright side, Cats - if Deseret comments had spell-check we wouldn't know who was FLDS and who wasn't. This way it's obvious....

  • Cats
    July 29, 2008 10:21 a.m.

    Once again the FLDS are blogging--screaming accusations at Texas and hoping the rest of us won't get on to what they are doing.

  • realitycheck
    July 29, 2008 10:19 a.m.

    by the way, XGI -

    the comment about FLDS parents ensuring their children receive an adequate education is highlighted by your comment, and comes too late for your parents' to take to heart.

    But DO NOT make the same mistake with your own children. You would be holding them back from a life of opportunity, and the FLDS has been doing that for far too long.

    Stop ensuring your followers' allegiance through restriction and lack of opportunity. If your cause is noble and you are rightious, they will follow you. But if you continue to restrict freedoms and civil rights (such as education) then you become a prison guard rather than a religious facilitator.

  • LB
    July 29, 2008 10:10 a.m.

    Lets see the proof. Because TX have no cretibility.... AT ALL!!!!

  • realitycheck
    July 29, 2008 10:03 a.m.

    Face the facts (and the music), FLDS people. You brought this all on yourselves. You took a fairly benign practice like polygamy and let Jeffs et al twist the whole thing into the ugliness that is today's FLDS.

    It's time to take your medicine like a man (or woman) and then move on and start over. You'll need to ditch the hiarchy that got you here (Jeffs, Jessop, etc) and go back to the basic tenets that are your true religion.

    No one cares if you have 5 wives and 50 children, as long as you support them, ensure they have decent schooling, and give them the freedom to make choices in the future. And stop trading your daughters for favors with the leadership.

    This isn't rocket science. You know what you've been doing wrong, and you know what makes a good parent. You lost sight of both by allowing the likes of Jeffs and company to run the show.

    You'll have to take the punishment doled out for your foolishness and indiscretions, and start fresh with your family's best interests at heart, instead of the church leadership's best interests. They are certainly NOT one and the same.

  • Mama Kate
    July 29, 2008 9:52 a.m.

    XGI...just so you know the outside world does not want to destroy families. We have people we love and care about too so we can understand your pain. (And your right our actions are not always exemplary and I am not condoning or excusing it.) But even if you live a different lifestyle or view sex only for procreation doesn't mean it is acceptable to impregnate a 16 year old girl. A pregnancy for a girl that age can be very high risk, even possible deadly. Why don't men in your faith care about your young wives and want to protect them from harm? If your spiritual unions were so christlike and virtuous then the men would wait until the girls are older to have male/female relations. It just seems like impregnating the woman is a way to trap her in the relationship and the FLDS goal is to do this sooner than later.

  • woohoo
    July 29, 2008 9:50 a.m.

    I have no problem saying I hate child molesters.

  • @XGI
    July 29, 2008 9:43 a.m.

    At least in my monogomist relations i don't molest children or marry little girls.

  • Cats
    July 29, 2008 9:39 a.m.

    To XGI: Many of these people are good and sincere people who are being victimized and misguided by their leadership. Since most FLDS have never had a chance to see anything of the outside world, they have no chance to exercise any form of true free agency. Most these girls are forced into "placement" marriages with no choice in the matter. Once they have been assigned, they are watched every minute to make sure they can't escape. I hope they have a chance, now, to get away from this insular and unhealthy environment.

    I applaud Texas for trying to help these victims. Now, I hope, these men will finally be held accountable for their crimes.

  • Joey
    July 29, 2008 9:26 a.m.

    Wow. The hatred is so thick you can cut it with a knife!

  • XGI
    July 29, 2008 9:19 a.m.

    It is all about male and female relations. The world {You} cannot hold a candle to the virtue of these men. Your own monogomnistic world is far far worse. What you are damming in them you your selfs condone in your own back yard. Why are you trying to destroy their familys. At least they had a form of marriage before they did it if they did. Marriage in the FLDS does not equal s.e.x. as it dose in your society for thet is the only reason most of you marry. This is not christlike. Let he who is innocent cast the first stone. The truth will prevail

  • common sense
    July 29, 2008 9:17 a.m.

    There is a God!! And Justice is being done in the case of FLDS. Way to go Texas!!

  • Donn
    July 29, 2008 9:11 a.m.

    At last Texas has to prove why the warrent was valid , so now Texas has to put up or shut up all the people that had anything to with the raid will now be on the witness stand no more lies the truth will come out then we shall find out who is telling the truth.

  • DRAPER
    July 29, 2008 9:05 a.m.

    PUT IT ON PAPER!!

  • JND
    July 29, 2008 8:30 a.m.

    Not to worry. They will all be found NOT GUILTY and will all become multizillionaires after they win their lawsuits against the State of Texas. Ha! You polygamy worshppers wish it were so.

  • woohoo
    July 29, 2008 8:21 a.m.

    its about freakin time!

  • Cats
    July 29, 2008 7:13 a.m.

    WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!

    One can't go on forever flaunting the law and victimizing women and children. It eventually catches up with you.

    If these men are guilty of these crimes, (And we know for sure that Warren Jeffs is. There is photo evidence of his crime.) I hope they are convicted and sentenced to the fullest extent of the law. Women and children have been victimized in the FLDS community for many years. A lot of the men and boys are victims, too.

    Warren Jeffs has publicly proclaimed that he is a FALSE prophet and one of the most WICKED men of this dispensation. I hope that these people will have a chance now at freedom--especially the women and children.

  • Teresa
    July 29, 2008 6:24 a.m.

    Looks like Texas finally got it right.