Hall's bum shoulder all better?

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  • The Best
    July 30, 2008 4:14 p.m.

    The team that finishes the poll ranked #1 is the best. It will take a couple of undefeated seasons for BYU to pull that off. I hope it happens.

    Go Cougs

  • bum shoulder
    July 30, 2008 11:38 a.m.

    Is it his bum or his shoulder?

  • geeer
    July 29, 2008 2:07 p.m.

    Let's give Max Hall credit for being incredibly tough. I don't like those that knock Brian Johnson. Comparing injuries is like apples/oranges. Remember how the Utes used to make fun of John Beck. (crying after a loss) They ate their words his senior year. I hope the same doesn't happen to Cougar fans saying Johnson isn't as tough as Hall. We were probably very fortunate Hall could play at all after the Wyoming injury.

  • Bruce Davis | 1:59 p.m. July 28,
    July 28, 2008 9:49 p.m.

    I love how BYU fans believe the compliments of opposing coaches are legitimate.

    Note to BYU fans: Anything an opposing coach says is designed to gain an advantage for his own team. For the remedial BYU fans, that means if he thinks he gains an advantage by sucking up and saying your team is the best college football has ever seen, he will say it.

    Leave it to BYU fans to actually accept the comments of an opposing coach as legitimate compliments.

  • Typical Cougars
    July 28, 2008 9:30 p.m.

    You don't like the facts so you dismiss them, deny them, and shout them down.

    Spirit, Tradition, Honor. Really?

    What you can't dismiss, deny, or shout down is that part of the heritage of BYU football consists of player allegations that the win-at-any-cost mentality at BYU has resulted in permanent physical injury, lost pro potential, and has led to years of drug addictions.

    Nice heritage.

  • The Best Line
    July 28, 2008 5:35 p.m.

    Shouldn't players believe in their teams? So many of you are getting worked because a QB made a statement that he thinks his line is the best in the country. WOW, a player that believes in his teammates abilities!!! Man, what is the world coming to? I would expect any QB that has any amount of confidence in his line to make similar statements. I can't believe people are getting so worked up over his confidence in his teammates.

  • Law Suits
    July 28, 2008 5:31 p.m.

    Apparently, those who are referencing lawsuits have never actually done any research to find out how common it might be at other programs. The poster got called out by stating that BYU has basically been sued more than any other program. Suddenly the tune changed and the statement evolves into but it "shouldn't happen here just because it happens everywhere else." Hate to break it to you but if you think that BYU has a problem, you apparently haven't lived outside of the state of Utah.

  • Seattle
    July 28, 2008 2:25 p.m.

    Bruce Davis or Mr Patata,
    At least that is a credible quote, if he said it, that referenced all of the lines he had faced. It seems hard to understand how they could man handle BYU line so well but consider them to be the best he had faced.

    My comment is still valid. BYU (Hall) should avoid the typical BYU hype and not go over the top with comments like "we have the best O-line in the country". It destroys his credibility about this or things he may say in the future because we know he doesnt have the experience against top teams to make such a statement.

    BYU believes in being humble so why not say he thinks/believes that they have "one of the best lines" in the Country? See the difference? There is a world of difference in the two statements.

    BYU is more enjoyable to watch and follow when they stop over hyping themselves with "BYU belongs in the Pac 10, we will go to a BCS game this year, we will win National Championship, etc
    Anyway, good post with a valid quote from Mr Davis.

  • Bruce Davis
    July 28, 2008 1:59 p.m.

    In point of fact: Bruce Davis of UCLA said, in an interview aired during the Vegas bowl that BYU had "the best" line they faced all year. That includes USC. It's not just Max Hall.

  • Injuries
    July 28, 2008 10:49 a.m.

    Hall could have taken the yewt way out like Johnson and sit out, but instead he came back like a man and to lead his team to victory. That's the difference between Hall and Johnson and the reason he found Collie open on a 4th and 18 and found a way to get him the ball to snatch victory from the hapless yewtes.

  • Zoobie 56
    July 28, 2008 10:29 a.m.

    RE: BYU hater suggesting BYU forces athletes to play hurt and take pain killers.

    You want people to come up with all kinds of facts. How about giving us some. "People hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest." (Simon and Garfunkel) You grossly overstate the problems at BYU. Oh, and I guess addiction to pain killers never happens anywhere but BYU, right? I'm not naive. You're prejudiced and blinded by hate. Go ahead and keep believing someone held a gun to Max Hall's head forcing him to play hurt.

  • Injuries
    July 28, 2008 9:58 a.m.

    Injuries happen. It's part of sports. I have bad knees and all that from a high school/college sports career. I knew what I was doing and chose to stick with it because I was competitive. We can all be like Zoobie and never allow ourselves to a boo boo. Grow up.

  • Law Suits 2 | 6:25 p.m. July 27,
    July 28, 2008 12:01 a.m.

    Look, you can try to discount the existence of such law suits if you choose. Unless the media directly lied, they occured. It has been reported that settlements have occured, and in at least one case the settlement with a well known player cost BYU a significant amount of money.

    I would not defend the accuracy of the media for an instant. But when numerous articles appear about law suits and drug addictions stemming from treatment at BYU, there is a problem. To my knowledge, never has there appeared such a report about Utah's program. In this media market, where the model is to fawn over BYU and attack Utah, such a claim against Utah would not have gone unreported.

    If reports of law suits have appeared about Michigan or Cal. so be it, but such claims against other schools should be no justification for there ever being such a claim against BYU.



  • nuts_ty
    July 27, 2008 10:13 p.m.

    BYU has certainly had it's problems with athletes addicted to painkillers. In my 2 minutes of research, so have Kentucky, West Virginia, Arkansas, Clemson, New Mexico State, Fresno State, and Washington. Someone else mentioned Cal, and I'll take their word for it.

    As for who's been sued the most...I don't know. Sure, it could be BYU but I'm not going to put the time into it to find out. The real question is what you think that shows? Seems to me like you are trying to use number of painkiller lawsuits as a single proxy to determine improper athletic department oversight, and when we're talking single digit sample sizes for any school I'd argue that you don't have enough degrees of freedom make that link.

  • Bigtime Ute Fan!
    July 27, 2008 9:47 p.m.

    I am a huge Ute Fan; My grandpa was a quarterback there and my cousin recently was the tight end. Still, I remember early 2004 and wondering why BYU fans were talking about how they were going to destroy us. I didn't understand it as there was no basis for it as we were clearly the cream of the MWC crop. Now the tables have turned and I see tons of Ute Fans talking about how good we are. Let's hope that is true, but until we prove it on the field we have no reason to talk. BYU fans get the bragging rights for a year, let's hope we get them back in November!

  • Law Suits
    July 27, 2008 9:41 p.m.

    Why are Ute Fans so ridiculous? Do you really believe that the only players ever to sue a school happened at BYU? Seriously??? First off, I am a die hard BYU fan and have never heard of anyone suing the school, but I will take your word that it has happened. I quickly googled the situation and saw the first few posts about Tulane and Hawaii. I plugged the search in and saw nothing about BYU. I don't understand why people have such a hatred that they just randomly post stuff they obviously know very little about.

  • DieHardCougar
    July 27, 2008 7:21 p.m.

    Wow.
    This thread is...a lot of things. Ridiculous comes to mind. But, whatever.
    I believe that Brian Johnson would have played the game following his injury if the opponent was BYU.
    I also believe that whether an injured player suits up and plays or not is ultimately up to the player, whatever the case may be. I believe that Max Hall would have suited up for that game even if his arm was hanging off his shoulder. That's the kind of competitor Max is.
    Seattle? You sound the most ridiculous. Why does the guy who's speaking have to clarify with "I think"? He's the one talking! Everyone who reads the quote knows that it's what HE thinks. It's called an opinion. And he was simply expressing it.

  • Law Suits 2
    July 27, 2008 6:25 p.m.

    before you go and start ranting and claiming about law suits you should have better sources than newspapers haha. And before you start asking everyone else to prove that it hasn't happened at other schools maybe you should prove it has happened at BYU. Just because you haven't read in "the news" about us over here in Michigan or anywhere else for that matter doesn't mean it doesn't happen here or at any other school, because here is a news flash for you....IT DOES

  • Law Suits
    July 27, 2008 6:19 p.m.

    There have been several law suits throughout the years down here in Michigan. I don't really see why you think that only happens over in Utah?....

  • Anonymous
    July 27, 2008 6:17 p.m.

    Go Utes and take the Jazz with you!!

  • Seattle
    July 27, 2008 6:10 p.m.

    Mr Patata Brava,

    Talk about missing the point and playing word games. You accuse me of taking Halls comment out of context and then you restate that he did, in fact, say " I think we have the best(O Line)in the Country".

    My comment was that he should have said "I believe" we have "one of the best" lines in the Country. It would sound more credible and still allow him to show confidence in his teamates. I didnt put quotes around "one of the best" in the original note but you still shouldnt have missed that. I expect you are wanting to criticize more than you are wanting to understand what someone is saying.

    As for Bravado? Yes, what he said was Bravado. Hall has no experience that would allow him to credibly make that statement. Also, the O line proved him wrong last year by their play.

    As for hyperbole, heavens yes we have heard of hype. In fact, the famous BYU hype machine is what most people complain about. There is too much hype especially just like the quote we are discussing.

    As for shame, shame on you for comparing me to Tanners. I am BYU fan





  • Say what???
    July 27, 2008 2:46 p.m.

    Let me see if I have this right. BYU beats Utah. The play of the game (disregarding the fact that BYU won in nearly every stat) had to be "Harline is still..." Oh, no, that was the year before. This one was Hall to Collie. A rather long ball by Hall. A very accurate ball by Hall. Hall, who was playing with a shoulder so badly injured that all loyal Ute fans sincerely believe he should have been on the sidelines. Hmmm...give that some thought. Sour grapes, anyone?

  • Tired
    July 27, 2008 2:22 p.m.

    If you can't beat 'em, criticize 'em.

  • Tough Guy? ......Yes
    July 27, 2008 12:27 p.m.

    Okay. I have heard enough. The kid has a bone sticking out of his shoulder the last two games he has to play to insure the BYU ends up where they do at seasons end. Is the kidd a tough and critty creature. heck yeah he is and all we hear from the yewts is how sub-standard a QB he is. Messed up shoulder? BYU and Max Hall 2-0. Utah and UCLA a big FAT Zero.

    Now let's see............Brian Johnson???? Does Johnson have any bones protruding through the skin???

    Didn't hear about anything like that? And had BJ had an injury like that the yewt fans would have told the entire Wasatch how tough their little QB was and we's wish that we had a guy like that playing for BYU.

    UCLA and Utah is going to get a healthy Max this time around and I pity the fools for all the trash we'll hear between now and the time we's play them in Sept. and November. A healthy Max will bring down hell fire on them boys.

    Looking forward to the pillage and destruction.

    Time to get your game faces on...........this is how the Cougars roll..............GO BLUE!!!!!!!!!!

  • Brettski
    July 27, 2008 12:09 p.m.

    D-News should find a way of silencing these comments from Jr. High kids. Any adult should be embarrassed for writing the garbage on these boards. BYU fans in particular seem to be a little more abrasive (I'm assuming the D-News censors more U of U posts) I would guess it's 60/40 BYU acting ridiculous. Grow up EVERYONE. I'm not talking about fun banter that goes back and forth, but the personal, below the belt attacks. Please fix this problem D-News.

    Here's to a great football season.

  • Chip
    July 27, 2008 11:43 a.m.

    It seems to me that UCLA had some very positive things to say about BYU's OL. Something to the effect that is was one of the best they played against. We will all know at the end of the year after all the dust settles.

  • john in texas
    July 27, 2008 9:19 a.m.

    No hot air from me till 22 November 2008 at about 7-8 p.m. How about it? Then we can all talk with something to back it up.

  • Cali Coug
    July 27, 2008 12:26 a.m.

    Dear Win at all costs?

    Please provide your research supporting your original statement...research should come from peer reviewed articles, not newspapers. Suggest you start your research at the Law Library

  • Observations
    July 27, 2008 12:09 a.m.

    More lawsuits, can't tell you on that one. I'm really not worried about it.

    Greatest offensive line in the universe? Man you guys are straining at gnats here. He'd BETTER say his is the best offensive line ever assembled.

    Hmmm, "Yeah, my o line is decent, not bad for an all Mormon school. I may get killed this year, but they're sure nice guys." I'm sure he could say THAT and you guys would be much more understanding and tolerant.

  • Idaho BYU Fan
    July 26, 2008 11:58 p.m.

    Did Davis give Reynolds fits in Vegas... yes, but if you read the scouting reports on Davis, he's very, very good. Overall, the byu offense should be better, apparently they have had a very productive offseason work out schedule and I believe that Bronco has put together an excellent coaching staff.

    I am excited and anxious to see how the 1st 3 games go. A lot of things have to go right to be undefeated, but they should have a great year... and the experts are saying that a 12-1 season could get them into a BCS bowl because they have started so high in the rankings... one things for sure, the offence will be even better than it was last year - how could it not be?

  • Patata Brava
    July 26, 2008 11:36 p.m.

    Dear Mr. Seattle (and you bring shame to my hometown),

    You took Max Hall's quote out of context. You (not so) cleverly chopped off the phrase "I think" from the line

    "People may criticize me for this, but I think we have the best offensive lines (sic) in the nation,"

    You wrote:

    Here we go again! Another quote saying "our line is the best in the country". Why not say " you believe" they are one of the best in the country"? It just makes you sound more credible.

    See the difference? By removing "think" you accuse him of "bravado", not being "credible" ignorance of real college teams" and probably a between-the-lines "arrogance". Hall did say a qualifying "I think". Give'em credit.

    Haven't Ute fans ever heard of hyperbole? Obviously much of the success of the quarterback depends on the ability of the offensive line. Probably the health of the quarterback too. Is what Hall said about having the "best line in the country" strictly true? Probably not. But he shows confidence in his line, and he needs to be a leader.

    Like the Tanners, it is easy to make fun if you selectively remove words. Shame on you.

  • Cougarfan
    July 26, 2008 11:20 p.m.

    I played basketball with Dennis Pitta today at Byu. That guy is rock solid, and an unbelievable athlete. He's going to have a huge year for byu this year. I'm excited to kick this season off!

  • Boise Coug | 8:20 p.m. July 26,
    July 26, 2008 9:35 p.m.

    Right Boise, it is college football, and its not worth permanant injury or drug addiction. Some people get that, others do not. You decide.

    I'm sure your confusion is quite apparent as you wander the streets of Boise SHOUTING in incoherent sentences about the injuries and outcomes of Utah games that have yet to be played.

    But, you have my sympathy. I know it must be unbearable for you living among the BCS worthy.

  • Boise Coug
    July 26, 2008 8:20 p.m.

    Utah coaches keeping him out at a reasonable time, that makes absolutely no sense. This is college football every single game is important, you need your stars every single game. But I guess this is expected, BJ has gone through injuries every single year maybe it is just an excuse for ute fans when they get shut out by UNLV, or when they get beat by BYU. If BJ really wanted to play as much as MAX does he would have been out on that field. The only thing I have to shout about up here in Boise is how I am confused how the utes will go to the big house and win then get shutout by Wyoming (which you can thank that one on Kyle) and Brain will suddenly have a "shoulder" injury that will keep him out for a few games, then you will get beat by BYU but it will be okay since Brian was "injured."

  • Max
    July 26, 2008 8:07 p.m.

    Max knows every team in the MWC will be gunning for him. He knows his backside tackle cannot handle the speed rush from NFL caliber defensive players.

    He also knows he plays in the MWC. He knows the chance of playing against an NFL caliber speed rush is very small. I don't know all the defensive personnel at UCLA, Washington, TCU or Utah. I would imagine, these four teams are the only ones he might to worry about as far as getting blindsided by a speedy defensive player.

  • Zoobie 56 | 6:21 p.m. July 26, 2
    July 26, 2008 7:28 p.m.

    How easy of you to dismiss the long term implications of injuries and drug addictions resulting from trainers and coaches pushing players who should be rehabing instead of playing.

    It's the dirty little secret of BYU football. Sorry if it doesn't fit your idealistic image of the BYU dynasty.



  • BYU law suit | 5:50 p.m. July 26
    July 26, 2008 7:08 p.m.

    I've asked anyone, including you, to name any other school that has been sued by former players for damages resulting from being pushed to play with injuries, or from drug addictions stemming from treatment at the school.

    There has been only one serious response mentioning Cal. Do you have any others?

    Lawsuits against BYU have been documented in the this and other SL newspapers. The media has covered no similar law suits at other instate schools.

    So, you are suggesting that in the time span of one series of plays BYU doctors were able to definatively determine that Hall had suffered a grade III separation and was not at risk of further injury?

  • Zoobie 56
    July 26, 2008 6:21 p.m.

    OK BYU doesn't have the best offensive line in the country. They should be the best in the conference and should be better than last year. (O-line coach was brand new last year). It sounds like Cougar fans should count their blessings for having Max Hall. Many would not have played having such a serious injury. Like it or not injuries are part of football, and some athletes have a higher tolerance of pain than others. The comments about Hall and others at BYU being forced to play hurt are ludicrous. (law suits or not) Someone needs a more productive way to vent their hatred.

  • BYU law suit
    July 26, 2008 5:50 p.m.

    Where are the stats? Accusing BYU of more law suits that another school is meaningful only if you show a documented list and then what does it mean? If you think that a grade III shoulder separation keeps you out of action you have never heard of hockey. And excuse me Doctor, but each player is different and playing with an A-C separation makes you ineffective, not prone to further damage.

  • Cali Coug | 4:09 p.m. July 26, 2
    July 26, 2008 5:30 p.m.

    If you can, please provide a shred of evidence that any school you mentioned, especially Utah has ever been sued by a player for damages caused by forcing them to play injured, or for drug addictions that started with the treatment of the athletic traning department.

  • Re Cali Coug
    July 26, 2008 5:26 p.m.

    Uh huh...I'm sure EVERYONE reading this forum believes you on that

  • Boise Coug | 4:45 p.m. July 26,
    July 26, 2008 5:23 p.m.

    What? I can't hear you.

    Shouting doesn't make your point more valid. In fact, if your point were valid you wouldn't have to shout.

    Here is a litte perspective, little brother. Utah trainers and coaches were responsible enough to keep Brian out a reasonable period of time rather than unreasonably risk further injury. BYU coaches and trainers, when faced with an apparently similar injury were more than willing to risk the health of the player by putting back in on the next series.

    But, maybe you have to shout in Boise to be heard over the din of the BCS worthy Boise State Broncos.

    I'm just sayin....

  • Boise Coug
    July 26, 2008 4:45 p.m.

    DIDN'T BRIAN JOHNSON HAVE THE SAME DEGREE OF SHOULDER SEPERATION AND IT KEPT HIM OUT FOR A FEW WEEKS. THAT SHOWS YOU THAT MAX HALL IS A WINNER AND HE WILL ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO COME OUT ON TOP. HE ISN'T THE ONE TO SIT ON THE SIDELINES WITH SOME PAIN, BUT I THINK THE WHOLE BYU SQUAD HAS THAT SAME MENTALITY. THATS WHY WE DONT GET SHUT OUT IN VEGAS.

  • Walt
    July 26, 2008 4:36 p.m.

    Minerman-

    Hall has made it thru one season; two years ago, 2006,the QB was John Beck...hello...remember HArline is still open?

  • NY
    July 26, 2008 4:23 p.m.

    I have to admit that it does seem like BYU has a problem in the law suit department. I have been a cougar fan all my life but it does seem like they get sued a lot. I personally know of two athletes who were pushed by trainers above their objections and suffered career ending injuries and drug addiction in the rehabilitation process. Both cases were eventually settled out of court.

  • Cali Coug
    July 26, 2008 4:09 p.m.

    Name a school that has been sued more than "The Y" - u.o.u, UCLA, USC, CAL, Orgeon, LSU, Florida, Nebraska, ND, University of Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, University of Alabama, UT, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, University of Montana, Udub, WSU, and the list goes on and on and on...

  • Seattle
    July 26, 2008 3:43 p.m.

    Oh, so I understand now. When Hall said the O line was the best in the country he was using it as a relative term. What he actually meant was the local area and actually meant the best in the "conference". Well, in that case, I believe him. At least he has seen the o lines in the conference.

    As for Whittinghams comment, Utah probably did have one of the best QB situations in the country. He was wanting one to step up and lead the team. That sounds like a good opportunity to me. Besides, the comment is pretty subjective. Hardly worth taking offense at.

    If Hall gets hurt BYU will have a good situation to but I am not sure they have someone who can step up and lead them as well as Hall did either.

    The O line play last year was very under par especally for what they were hyped to do. UCLA made them look very outclassed. They followed every pulling guard or tackle right to the ball carrier.

    As for the NBA conspiring to create the Ok City "Rustlers", that is too bad. Plenty of blame to go around. I like the name.

  • PAC 10?
    July 26, 2008 3:33 p.m.

    Mike - reality check. If the PAC10 wanted us, we would have been in years ago. Officials of the PAC 10 have repeated said there is no way they accept BYU into their conference. You make it sound like Tom Holmoe needs to have some sense shaken into him. It's absurd to make a statement like "I think it's time we got into the pac-10. Sure it would be nice, and it would help with respect and recruiting, but it ain't gonna happen.

  • Zoobie Fan
    July 26, 2008 3:22 p.m.

    Gaskins is the backup???? I thought Mceuen beat him out in spring. Gaskins turns the ball over too much.

  • Mike B.
    July 26, 2008 2:37 p.m.

    Hall better have confidence in his o-line because if they don't perform well in the first 3 games they could be 1 and 2 again to begin the season, and the BCS hopes down the drain. It takes a special team to go undefeated and I don't see it happening. I definitely think they can be 11 and 1 this year, but after what Hawaii did last year thier will be no BCS for the cougars unless they go undefeated. We play in a conference with not a whole lot of respect nationally, Pac 10 team with 1 loss could make it to a BCS game, but not the MTN. West. I think it's time we got into the pac-10. We would get more respect and better recruiting.

  • Anonymous
    July 26, 2008 2:30 p.m.

    Fire KY-le Whittingham. We deserve better as Ute fans.

  • Ed Clinch
    July 26, 2008 2:03 p.m.

    Hall is tough and the line is hopefully top ten, and the defense is hopefully top 15.

    BCS? Possibly, if they play right and the cards fall right.

    Cougs.

  • Spud Man
    July 26, 2008 1:10 p.m.

    If "its" and "buts" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. Lets quit talking and see it out on the field. I'm not worried about Hall getting hurt. If he does, there is a great backup in Gaskin who is clearly capable of holding things together. Bronco is building a program and the cougs are not dependent upon any one party.

  • Cal
    July 26, 2008 12:31 p.m.

    I know a cornerback at Cal sued Cal about something stupid like that years ago. I'm sure there's lots of cases, don't you? People who love something for nothing are all over.

  • Charles
    July 26, 2008 12:24 p.m.

    Good to see Hall show his Toro toughness. Nice work Max! How's Danny?

  • Oklahoma City Thunder
    July 26, 2008 11:14 a.m.

    Here we go again, Seattle.

    Which quote is more egregious?

    1. "We have the best offensive line in the country." -- Max Hall, 2008

    2. "We have the best quarterback situation in the country." -- Kyle Whittingham, 2006

    One comes from a player, who clearly has the best O-line in the conference.

    The other comes from a coach who didn't even have the best QB situation within 45 miles.

    You tell me which statement is more laughable.

    Besides, those that actually watched the games know that Hall did enjoy pretty good protection last year. Most problems occurred from him holding onto the ball too long and apparently not sensing blindside pressure too well. Those are definitely the areas where he can improve his efficiency this year. If Hall can eliminate the blindside fumbles -- well, it will be extremely difficult to stop BYU's offense.

    There were definite protection issues vs. UCLA. Basically, Davis totally overmatched Reyonlds -- and that was mostly a speed issue.

    Hey, Seattle, instead of worrying about Hall's protection issues, you should have been protecting your NBA franchise. You got snookered!

  • Swatting Flies
    July 26, 2008 11:06 a.m.

    No sweat, Killing Bugs. You were never really in.

  • Killing Bugs
    July 26, 2008 10:55 a.m.

    OK, ya didn't like my shoulder bum comment.

    All good, Zoobie.

    I'm out.

  • Seattle
    July 26, 2008 10:54 a.m.

    Here we go again! Another quote saying "our line is the best in the country". Why not say " you believe" they are one of the best in the country"? It just makes you sound more credible. Hall doesnt have any experience against Ohio State or USC etc etc. He has nothing to base this quote on. Just more bravado that was proven to be false last year.

    It is interesting, though, to hear one of the high profile offensive line recruits in Utah say that he is concerned about going to BYU becuase of O line depth (relative of BYU coaches aside).

    Knowing Hall has a bum shoulder will really make him a target now. Rehab of a 3rd degree separation, is it fully healed? Teams will know that might be their best chance to blow up BYU's season.

    Hall needs to stay healthy. I am not sure they have someone able to step in a do the job just yet.

  • Re: Win at all costs? | 10:23 a.
    July 26, 2008 10:48 a.m.

    Can you name one other shcool that has been sued by former players for playing them injured?

    At BYU they are at least four that I know of. Not to mention numerous others that have dealt with public drug addictions that they claim started at BYU, while the school tried to keep them playing. Most tragically two of those players died as a result of those complications.

    This is a long standing issue at BYU that goes back decades.

    An don't give me that bull about competitive players choosing to play. Players will always want to play. The school has an obigation to the safety of the player to safegauard those who risk further injury by playing.

    If Hall was hurt as bad as implied by Harmon, he had no business coming back to play of the next series of the Wyoming game.

    I repeat BYU defenders, name one other shcool that has been sued by former players for injuries and complications of playing them injured.

  • Killing Bugs
    July 26, 2008 10:35 a.m.

    For a minute there, I swear the headline read:

    "Hall's shoulder bum"

    Guess not.

  • you have to be tough
    July 26, 2008 10:32 a.m.

    Max Hall has the toughness that's needed to win conference championships. 3rd degree shoulder separation? No problem, still able to handle both utah and UCLA. Contrast Hall with Brian "Oh ouch, hey coach I got another boo-boo on my shoulder so I have to go on vacation for 4 games" Johnson. I think it's very likely Johnson will get injured in the Michigan game and then miss the next 4 games (at least). He hasn't gone a full season yet. But I guess he's useful because he at least provides yewt fans with excuses for losing and finishing 3rd every year.

  • Re: Win at all costs?
    July 26, 2008 10:23 a.m.

    Your post exposes your lack of football knowledge. Ask any college player and they play hurt because they want to help the team and compete. If you were Max Hall and you separated your shoulder, but are still able to play in the biggest game of the year, would you? Keep in mind Hall is one of the biggest competitors on the team. I don't think any more of Hall because he played, in fact I would rather he didn't IF he couldn't perform up to that level. Please don't read a couple of articles about tragic stories of past players, and assume that is rampant throughout the program. Hate BYU all you want, I could care less, but it isnt just BYU that has players play while hurt.

  • Anonymous
    July 26, 2008 10:01 a.m.

    Harmon making something out of nothing

  • BlueChelan 56
    July 26, 2008 10:01 a.m.

    Football is a game of Emotion.You start with the talent, but if you are not ready emotionally, things happen. Most of which are bad. Thats why the saying,( Your only as good as the last game you played) is very true in football.It is extremely difficult for players,even with a Coach like Bronco, to maintain that emotional level of intensity throuought the long and physical season.Then throw in possible injuries and you have a better understanding of what a Championship Football Season is all about and what it takes to have one.This is also something which very few teams in the Nation rarely experience at any level of competition.

  • Win at all costs?
    July 26, 2008 9:54 a.m.

    The dirty little secret of BYU football raises its ugly head again.

    Is there a team in the county that has been sued more than BYU, for allowing/forcing players to risk further injury and/or a lifetime of complications by playing hurt?

  • amazing
    July 26, 2008 9:47 a.m.

    Whatever. Our O-line was amazing last year. You think we'd be 11-2 without them? You think Unga rushes like he did without them? Even the best lines sometimes give up sacks. They were/are the primary reason we won the MWC. The Oline has always been the secret of our success. Look at how many Olinemen from BYU make it in the NFL compared to any other position. I have no doubt that Porterie or any other QB in the MWC could have a terrific season with BYU's Oline blocking for him.

  • Prediction
    July 26, 2008 9:40 a.m.

    Well, this isn't a prediction, it is just a fact.

    Utah will lose to a much of faceless teams, run up the score on UNLV to feel tough, and lose to BYU. Brian JOhnson will fake an injury to save face in thw Wyoming game and Sakoda will miss a potential game winner against the Cougs.

    Max Hall will win player of the years, Cougs run the table and go bowling!

    Bronco gets an extension and Ute fans wonder how McBride got back in the coaching chair.

  • Sacks...........
    July 26, 2008 9:38 a.m.

    BYU allowed how many sacks last year??...20 ...the EWES allowed how many last year??..28.....in either case it only takes one hit to injure somebody one minute into the season or "ten" games into the season...........with as many times as I have seen BJ and the Bear get nailed I think you female sheep should worry a little more about your own offensive line than BYU's.........

  • West Virgina
    July 26, 2008 9:35 a.m.

    I would say WV has the best O line in the country!. Not just my opinion, every publication in the country feels the same way. BYU maybe in the MTW.

  • Best O-line?? HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
    July 26, 2008 9:31 a.m.

    That's funny!

    The two most important positions on the OL are blindside tackle and center. A lot of BYU fans are down on the left tackle and they have a new center. Let's not forget that the kewgs best blocking back, Manase Tonga, is out for the year.

    I think it's safe to say that Hall is going to face some protection issues.

  • Anonymous
    July 26, 2008 9:09 a.m.

    So minerman are you suggesting that in order to be considered a great O-line that you can't give up a sack past week 4?

  • Dallas Turnstile
    July 26, 2008 9:06 a.m.

    of course, talk is cheap, which is why we can do more tough talking than good blocking!

  • Dallas Turnstile
    July 26, 2008 9:06 a.m.

    We won't be taking tickets as D-ends go by us like we did last year. We're going to try blocking sometimes.

  • Paul Carter
    July 26, 2008 9:04 a.m.

    Of couse Brian Johnson has never been hurt behind is offense line.
    At least Max doesn't take the season off.

  • JF
    July 26, 2008 9:03 a.m.

    Yes. Go Utes. Go away.

  • Re: Minerman
    July 26, 2008 9:00 a.m.

    I appreciate your deep sense of compassion for an opposing quarterback. Must be because yours is in the same situation, only worse. Here's hoping they both get much improved protection this year, because whether it's shooting fish in a small barrel or pulling a rabbit out of the hat, we wouldn't want the Game of the Century to be marred by whining about what if's and why for's.

    Go Cougars! Go linemen and blocking backs!

  • josh andersen
    July 26, 2008 9:00 a.m.

    he says they're the best in the country because he has to.. his life is in their hands. They sure didn't look like the best Oline in the country against UCLA.

  • UNM Who?
    July 26, 2008 8:42 a.m.

    Why the comparison to New Mexico? Nobody knows how UNM's offensive line will play until they take the field. And Rocky Long is obviously biased when he compares his QB to Hall.

  • Gretzky
    July 26, 2008 8:06 a.m.

    looking forward to the new season. the Cougs need to be confident but not overconfident aka Michigan Wolverine pups vs. appy state... Hall should do well. he has the vote of confidence from the coaches. Gaskins is likely a better QB on paper but does not get the confidence backing from domer...

  • true blue
    July 26, 2008 7:38 a.m.

    Get gaskin playing time early and often. Because it was a miracle hall made it through last season. The line is good enough to buy time, but hall wants to make every play, so he gets hit a lot.

    Go cougars

  • Armchair Coach II
    July 26, 2008 7:29 a.m.

    With left tackle Reynolds(coaches son) Hall won't make it through the season. UCLA's Davis ran past him like he wasn't there, causing the hit, fumble and loss in LA and again in the Vegas Bowl he blew by him. The Cougs better fix this or 'perfection' is unlikely.

  • Minerman
    July 26, 2008 4:16 a.m.

    So, this is basically the same offensive line that let Hall get beat down last year, and Hall claims it's the best in the country? I cuold understand if he had been injured the first couple of weeks, but when it happens ten weeks into the season? I mean, come on. If they haven't figured out how to protect him when the offensive line combines for more than 120 starts...how much better are they gonna be this year? Not having a back up quarterback with ANY starting (or college experience) period should be a big red flag. But, Hall has made it the last two years without a problem. Hopefully that left side will be improved, otherwise, it could be a short season...good luck Hall! Sounds like you'll need some. Hope he's healthy for the Utah game! I want to see the best showdown in BYU-UTAH history! Without him...it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel. A very small barrel.

    GO UTES!

  • Joe
    July 26, 2008 1:45 a.m.

    I can't wait to see Max and the cougs tear apart the MWC this year!

    Hopefully Brian Johnson and Utah can make it past Wyoming and UNLV, it will make the end of the season that much more fun.

  • Armchair coach
    July 26, 2008 1:03 a.m.

    Get out of the pocket or throw it away sometimes. Otherwise those blindside blitzes will reintroduce your shoulder to the therapist.