BYU did have a D1 Men's Soccer Team. Back in the day JD Dusara was the
coach of the Men's team. I went to soccer camp at BYU in the late
80's to early 90's and it was still D1. Somewhere around 1991 the
team was dropped from D1 and became a club team. Some say it was a casualty of
Title IX. However, Dave Wooley, the last D1 coach they had at BYU informed
family members of mine that there were violations made by the soccer team
including illegal recruiting, if memory serves correctly, staying at the homes
of members when on the road. BYU has never been on probation and acted quickly
to drop the program and avoid probation.Incidentally, I just googled
Dave Wooley and apparently he now has a book for sale on the BOM at DeseretBook.
Soccer may be all these wonderful things and many might play it and congrats to
clay for working so hard but...Soccer is super boring and the only
reason that the world loves it, is because its the only thing 3rd world
country's are exposed to and can play with just a ball. No pads, hoops, sticks,
gloves. Just one ball and bare feet can play.It is and always will
be boring to watch. 90 mins of your life then it ends in a tie.
The SEC doesn't have men's soccer and only one "legacy" school -- Kentucky --
currently offers it. South Carolina, which joined the SEC in 1992, stayed in
its former conference (the Metro) for men's soccer for a few more seasons before
reunification (Metro-Great Midwest reunification created Conference USA) when it
wasn't invited, and stayed independent for ten seasons when it rejoined
Conference USA, taking Kentucky with them to C-USA.The US Olympic
Committee needs to study the demise of Olympic sports for men because of
Title IX is not the problem, it is an excuse. Title IX mandates EQUAL
OPPORTUNITIES, NOT EQUAL NUMBERS, and is based on student percentages and
interest levels. This is a misconception that people have gotten too caught up
the guy that "ran" to first base then stands around for hours on end, and the
guy that was on the ground gets back up and runs another couple miles, getting
hit constantly (not just once in awhile like the ball hitting the player in
to: athletes - get hit with a baseball and the guy runs to first base...get
kicked in the shin in soccer and they call for help as they lie around on the
ground like it was death...enough said!
To all those who are claiming soccer is for "the kids that couldn't make the
football or baseball team."On a high school level, US soccer 1) has more
Utah kids playing on an international level than other sports 2) is more
attended than baseball. 3) many of the soccer players are on a fall/winter
varsity team.As to whether or not soccer is as physically demanding
than other sports:1) It's a contact sport.2) The average
professional player runs 8-9 miles per game. 2) There are no time-outs,
quarters, etc. 90 minutes of full play. How much of baseball and football are
just waiting for the next play time?3) Only three substitutions.4)
Have you ever seen the BYU men's team or RSL's work out schedule? The BYU team
trains just as much, if not more, than the football and baseball teams in the
weight room.As to baseball vs. soccer. I seriously doubt that a
baseball player would have the foot coordination - I mean you don't exactly run
with the ball in baseball, do you?
Now read carefully. I know all of you emotional soccer minds can't handle it,
but try so that you don't misunderstand or try to put words in my mouth. Deep
breath all you soccer people. Jim Abbott was a big league pitcher for Detroit
with only a left hand. He was in the league for a few years and had a descent
career. It wasn't a gimmick. I didn't say I saw a soccer player. And for the
moron that claimed I said that soccer wasn't hard, I never said it wasn't. My
statement was it took a better athlete. Competing in a Triathlon is harder than
both baseball and soccer, but that doesn't make you a great athlete. Again, you
have to run, throw, catch, and hit and round ball with a cylander object. The
only thing that can compare with each sport is running. If you gave a group of
baseball players and soccer players and gave each group 4 weeks to train and
practice, baseball would kill any group of soccer players in playing a
game/match opposite each other. Deep breath soccer. Before responding, get rid
of your emotions. I'm sure I'll be hearing from you.
Its sad to see that utah colleges aren't taking the opprotunity have NCAA soccer
teams when Utah is producing great soccer players. Utah soccer is starting to
get recognzied more and more. The RSL U-17 team captured the MLS Cup, now that
is a big accompishment. The Utah 89, 90, 91 had many players in the Region pool.
The youth players are developing at a fast pace and make a stand at the Western
Regionals. BYU is getting great players, but their talent is going to waste in
the PDL. U of U has a great valley of soccer players same with Utah Valley. La
Roca, Inter, Sparta, Utah Rush and other clubs are developing great players,
they are forced to go out of state to get the college play they want because
their state colleges can't give them the level of play they need. The state of
Utah should take the change in NCAA Soccer and watch the amazing change that
Have you ever played soccer? I take it as a no considering your lack of respect
for the sport. Why do you think the entire world plays this sport so much...?
Come on nowOh, and the guy who said that he saw the soccer player with one
arm play... I'm sure that was a feel good thing too. No one at the high level
can play with one arm, but you would have to understand the game to know that. I
think that may be a little hard for your baseball filled mind to wrap around
wow who ever is saying baseball is harder give me a break i play football
basketball and baseball and soccer. All of these sports takes different types of
strengths but please do not tell me soccer is an easy sport give me a break. For
soccer you have to be the best in the world to be considered good not just the
US the world. You have to be big fast strong in good shape conditioned and have
mental toughness. 90 minutes of intense play. soccer is no sport for people who
are not tough or you will just get knocked off the ball i respect people if they
say they do not enjoy it but pleas do not say it is easy far from it. watch any
body that has not played soccer try to play they look like fools takes finess
There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.I
should take that back. There are both stupid questions and stupid people.
Watching grown 'men' play soccer is boring. Dull. It is not a sport for men. Some of you will claim that I am just bashing soccer. Some of you are
right, but consider this; maybe soccer deserves to be bashed.
At what level do you speak of. I can only think of Jim Abbot in baseball.
Anyone else? Huh? What you say? Idiot back at you. Yeah, high school level
and rarely college. Feel good stories, but how many can play or just play.
There is a difference. Idiot back at you again. That's the soccer mentality
that I dislike very much.
Whichever high school it is that you go to, you should try out for the soccer
team. Lets see you get through the first day of conditioning with that baseball
I had a buddy who played both baseball and soccer. he was a standout baseball
player. He was going to be offered a starting spot on the Taylorsville baseball
team as a fresman. He was going to ge in their pitching rotation. He also was a
stand out soccer player... Guess which one he said was harder? SOCCER. wanna
know why, you have to be in better shape, you have to be mentally fit the whole
game (not just when the pitcher is going) and you have to be aware of yourself
at all times.Buddy, come on now, everybody knows baseball is a pathetic
excuse for a sport. Yeah it is hard to hit a ball, you ever tried bending a
soccer ball around a wall into a space just big enough for the ball so the
goalie doesnt reach it?
You could play soccer without arms? wow, did you watch a guy do it once so you
figure that at any level it is feasible. I saw a guy play baseball with one
hand. I saw a guy play basketball with one leg. I saw a guy play football with
one arm... Guess in every sport it is capable.Idiot
You my friend, obviously haven't played the game. I would challenge ANY soccer
player to play baseball and then any baseball player to switch and play soccer
and I'd be willing to be the baseball players would beat the soccer players at
their own game. It wouldn't be close when playing baseball. In fact, I'd be
willing to bet that most soccer players wouldn't have the courage to this
challenge. Baseball players are in better condition that most other athletes.
REAL athletes know this. Not those that play a game where you don't need to use
arms are hands. That's not a sport, it's hacky sack. I also have no respect
for a sport where you see a participant roll around like he got shot and then
miraculasly is 100% to run full speed in the next minute. If the Hispanics love
soccer that's great. It's a game for them to play because they can't play
baseball. Soccer right, a sport where armless people can play. Get real.
Football is more manly then soccer why? Baseball is more manly then soccer why?
Basketball is more manly then soccer why?Football, you wear enough pads to
not feel the hit.Baseball, you dont get touched, when you do you get
rewarded to go to your base.Basketball, hey these guys bang some, i'll
give respect here.Soccer, well if you havent played you dont know. If all
you have seen is your little kids rec league game you know nothing. that would
be like me going to a jr jazz game and saying i knew everything about
basketball.Come on now, are we really all this ignorant that we have to
use the word manly? The american football ego is a fragile thing
Then why do you soccer haters feel the need to comment on a stroy about Title 9?
Ha ha, you haters are pathetic. Lets see, thanks for the stadium with not
your tax money (notcie the word not), thanks for your support of soccer (by
commenting on it, you give it attention and publicity, we all know there is no
such thing as bad publicity) and thank you for showing how stupid we as
americans are (as if our president was not enough proof).Well done, well
Back to Real Athletes: I sure hope you are kidding. Baseball? Honeslty baseball?
The most complete athletes? Come on now. Lets see, you stand in a box waiting
for a pitch. I'll give you the fact it is hard to hit, but running? Yeah, a
whole 90 feet to first where most of the time the player is exhausted. Ha ha,
catching a baseball with those mits is not that hard either. Pitching is hard
and so is hitting, but other then that the game is a waiting game. heck, golf
can be ten times more exciting then baseball. lets see you go on the pitch (that
is a soccer field for you uneducated people) and try and score. Its so easy
right? Ha ha, after you get worn out from your run onto the field, i'll be sure
to give you a reason to sit down again.Baseball? Seriously? this guy said
baseball?Oh, and to the rest of you soccer haters. Number of Hispanics in
the US is increasing... Hispanics love soccer... UH OH.
listen....nobody cares about friggen soccer in America. Ok, there might be a few
people....about as many that care about karate and lacrosse. America is a
football and basketball country through and through. Bag soccer
I echo the comment from Laurels. My son just graduated and was offered both
academic and athletic (soccer) scholarships to attend Westminster. He, too, had
several offers from out of state colleges but they were not near enough to
offset the extremely high costs to attend those schools. So he is Westminster
bound and I couldn't be happier. My daughter just graduated from there and
really enjoyed it.
To the Comment "I can go on and on, still have wrestling, why didn't title IX
affect hundreds of other schools."Please educate yourself on the
topic. Wrestling participation on the youth level is at an all-time high (check
NFHS numbers).Then be aware that college wrestling has lost over 400
college programs since the passing of the law in 1972, but many (if not most)
have come after the 1979 clarification. I tried to post a link to
things PROVING it, but this site does not allow URL's to be posted.It's over 400 college wrestling teams dead since Title IX's passing. Don't kid
yourself. Proof is in the pudding. I'm sure other men's sports are
in a similar boat.
being a 5a mvp doesnt mean much because american soccer is weak, and thats why
we get blown out at the world cup. This is the usa, and football/basketball will
always be king! believe dat.
Baseball players are the most complete athletes period. Think about it. To be
considered good you have to run, throw, catch, and hitch a ball with a round
object. Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports. Granted there
are some that are better at hitting than maybe fielding or vice versa, but they
are above average or wouldn't be in the bigs. Michael Jordan tried to play the
game and couldn't get out of AA. The only other real football or basketball
player that you could say had success was Bo Jackson. He made a couple All-Star
games.Don't even compare to soccer players. If they traded places,
it'd be no match either way. Man, you could play soccer without any arms and
still be good. Couldn't do that in any other sport. Leave soccer to the world
and keep it just where it is now in the US.
It takes a lot more players to field a football team than a volleyball team. As
much as I enjoy watching women in their volleyball uniforms, football puts more
butts in the seats and earns more MONEY.
An interesting article - but basically - who cares? I don't care if the schools
in this state ever offer any scholarships in soccer. I would care - in the
negative - if any of those scholarships took one away from men's football or
baseball or women's volleyball or gymnastics. I don't care if the professional
team wins or loses or even stays in business. I do, however, want them out of
the University of Utah's stadium before they ruin the turf any more than they
already have - and I hope the "U" is charging them a bundle to play there.
Soccer - it's boring and I believe you only run stories on it because the paper
feels it is some type of politically correct thing to do. Can't you find more
old stories about lawn bowling, poker and checkers and other interesting sports?
As a hockey fan, I know what it's like to love a sport that isn't hugely popular
in most of the U.S. But you know what? We kind of accept it. Yeah, we complain
about the lack of coverage and do what we can to increase exposure, but at least
we don't make these outlandish claims about its future. Soccer becoming the
third most popular sport in the country? Maybe someday, but it's not gonna
happen in my lifetime, and I'm only 23. I fully acknowledge that soccer is
gaining popularity, but it has a ways to go before it even catches hockey in
terms of tv viewership and especially attendance (per-game attendance is nearly
comparable but hockey has almost three times as many games). Then it's a huge
leap to basketball and another huge leap to baseball and football. P.S.- Dumbest comment of the day- "How many people would attend football or
basketball games without the cheerleaders?" I grew up in a place where people
stay on a season-ticket waiting list for 15 years for the honor of sitting with
65,000 other Terrible Towel-waving members of Steeler Nation and there's not one
My comment in the form of requet Can you import some pfour good player here in
solomon islands to pleyin your USA clubs. We have good players who can turn our
dreams in reality.Please contact me or come and experience by
yourselfThank you Phillip Matou
To all you who constantly rip on title 9... BOO HOO!I know, I know womens
sports don't make money and guess what, some men's sports don't make money
I was in Wimbley stadium, London, when the NFL was playing an exhibition match.
Cowboys vs. Steelers. During the match a nice English couple asked, why do they
always have to talk about what they are going to do next? Do they have such poor
memories they can't remember what to do on the field. it was a refreshing look
at the side of US football we forget sometimes. So many stoppages. So little
playing time. In a four hour football game the ball is in play for less than 12
minutes. How tedius is that?
American football does go over the top on scholarships. It is probably the only
sport where a different set of athletes play offense and defense. Imagine if
Byu and Utah both had good men's soccer teams. With support from both schools
the RSL stadium could be packed.
Seriously, the discussion is about title ix, not if soccer is interesting. One
issue with soccer is that if you don't know how to play soccer it probably is
boring and confusing. One main draw of many sports are the cheerleaders. How
many people would attend football or basketball if there were no cheerleaders?
I used to play soccer all the time and its a fun sport and takes a lot of
fitness and skill. There are a lot of pros to soccer and it requires as much or
more athleticism as any other sport. Its as good a sport as any other sport.
The story and many of the comments have Title IX wrong. Title IX states that
the proportion of athletic opportunities at a school needs to match the
proportion of males to females enrolled at the school. It DOES NOT state that
they need to be EQUAL. Unfortunately this causes an even bigger problem because
most universities have a higher proportion of females enrolled in school. If,
as posted earlier, it is true that more young males are actively involved in
sports than young females, this really puts men at a disadvantage. Supposedly
Title IX was supposed change this situation by encouraging more females to
become active in sports. This is pure speculation on my part, but if more women
are enrolled in school it could be for academic reasons and have nothing to do
with interest and opportunities in athletics. I think Title IX should not be
based on enrollment but should be based on interest at a university. If there
are more women on campus, but only say 50% are interested in sports, than the
Title IX requirement should be lower. Same for the men. The NCAA is good with
complex formulas (RPI, BCS), they should try it!
I think people who post negitive comments just sound uneducated. I just the
idea of forcing your belief on someone is something you were taught as a child.
Your comments almost made me hate soccer but I guess they weren't that
convincing. Try harder next time.
C'mon, soccer absolutely sucks! Go watch a collegiate soccer game sometime and
see if you can find more than 15 people there. (All of them related to or dating
someone playing on the field.) My four year old will play soccer
because that is about all you can do at that age. When he graduates to a real
sport, soccer is toast! This is America.... baseball, football, basketball.
Re: Soccer?The "goal is as big as a semi trailer" and in football
you have the WHOLE END OF THE FIELD to cross (and EVEN bigger goal) and many
games are won by scores of "2 to 1" or "3 to 2." Oh, wait! In American football
you get six points for a goal, so that's "12 to 6" or "18 to 12." So they must
be MORE IMPORTANT goals because they are WORTH MORE POINTS.I'm not a
big fan of soccer, but at least they actually PLAY most of the time during a
match. In American football the players spend most of the time planning to play
(while we just sit in the stands watching their rear ends. The they play for 8
or 10 seconds or so, then back to the secret planning again for a few more
minutes. Talk about tedious.
Your argument is unreal, siccer may not take over football or basketball in
Amaerica but it will take over every other sport. Larry H.Miller had a fit when
SLR came here he knew they would draw far moare than the Bee's. Baseball is the
sport most threatened by soccer.
Let me get this straight we (including me) are wasting all this time talking
about soccer? A sport where the goal is as big as a semi trailer and 1 goal is
considered a great feat?
I did not argue that athletes are dumb in my post. I just said soccer--and other
sports--are part of a range of extracurricular activities that can be available
to college students. I see no reason to privilege any sport with scholarships at
the expense of other worthy activities. My picking on the lack of
discussion of Clay Christenson's academic goals has more to do with the
(morbidly?) rabid attention that sports get when we talk about college. I am delighted that you make good grades in neuroscience, but so do a
lot of your classmates who do NOT get scholarships for their extracurricular
activities. Yes, dedication in sports and application of the
principles and strategies one learns in them can and do contribute to success in
classwork, but so do playing the guitar, or working on car engines or other
mechanical projects, or rock climbing, or choral music, or dance, or writing.
Sports has no exclusive magical ability to make people smarter than
any other activities that demand real devotion. So, what I was
saying, is that the notion of all these college scholarships for sports without
comparable numbers for other activities seems wrong headed.And we're
battling GPAs now?
The only reason soccer is the most popular game in the world is that it's the
only game most countries can afford to play. Here in the US where we have our
choice in sports, most young men leave little league soccer for more interesting
sports like football as they grow up
Where I went to highschool--in Utah valley--one played soccer because he
couldn't make any of the cooler sports teams (totally different witht e women's
team). That's still okay, it's just that all you soccer nuts out there need to
accept the fact that Americans don't like to watch soccer. We have manlier
sports to consume our time. Soccer is becoming more popular in the US, in
direct proportion to the Spanish language becoming more spoken here. NCAA
soccer would never be financially viable. And worse, it will never be
interesting to watch.
If you want to bash you are going to have to learn to take some bashing
considering baseball after the beijing olympics isn't even going to be featured
in the olympics.. Sad i know but arrogant americans will have to eventually
realize that their sports like baseball and football aren't that great.
you are probably over the age of 40. Baseball is not a true athletes game most
of the players are overweight. face the facts soccer is here you are going to
have to let go of your bias and watch a true athletes game. It is
the most popular sport in the WORLD for a reason.
Have you ever seen a mens college soccer game? I agree with the
comments made about bias and and athletic directors being old school. It's like
my dad he wont even watch a game he would rather watch baseball. Hopefully the
next generation of athletes will fix this problem of bias and unequality as they
become the athletic directors and leaders of our collegiate schools.
Watching men in shorts running up and down kicking a ball, falling down and
writhing in pain (Ever watch a baseball palyer who has been hit by a 97 mph
fastball?) then pulling his shirt up over his head when there is an infrequent
score. Soccer gives boring a bad name. Don't spend university or tax payer
dollars on such rubbish. If title IX is the reason for collegiate soccer's
demise, it has done something good.
I'd rather watch the local women's college teams play any day.
I am on a partial scholarship at a top institution to play soccer- I have a
3.63, as a neuroscience major and the team average is a 3.05. I
would say that we take academics just as seriously as non-athletes if not more,
especially with in the realm of the soccer team. Soccer is a game of intellect
and most successful players that I know partner their skills with great GPAs in
high school much more so than any football or basketball team average I am sure.
This allows them to embody and plethora of options if schools don't come
knocking during the recruiting process.You are right school is for
school, but soccer is outstanding for personal growth and a number of other
necessary communication and relationship skills. I guarantee, that
if you gave Clay the chance, he would be able to outline everything he wants to
do academically and my guess is that he might have a higher GPA than you would
expect (maybe even higher than yours in college my friend)
I hate to break it to you but as good as Utah thinks they are when it comes to
soccer the state lags behind other states. If you look at the Western regionals
for youth soccer, Utah did not have a single winner in any age category. The
young man from Jordan High School sounds like a good player, but when compared
with other players from other states, he is just average. Utah will have to
embrace year round soccer before it will truly be able to compete with other
states and their soccer programs. Big name universities recruit at regionals.
They do not watch or even attend high school games. If you want to do well and
land at a good program you must play well at regionals. NCAA divison one
programs also look at the success of ODP programs. Utah's program is weak when
matched against other programs. If Utah wants to take their game to the next
level, they are going to have to well at these two venues.
I'm waiting for my previous comments to appear on this post, which provide a
concise and accurate history of what has happened over the years. Bottom line:
it is absolutely all about Title IX. "Soccer Coach for 25 Years" knows all about
it, too. Good to see your post, my friend. Nice comments.
Before praising the BYU Idaho model too much, please investigate the many costs
and challenges faced by the program. I prefer the European model where sports
are played at the club level.
To "Ace Ventura": BYU fielded an NCAA-sanctioned men's soccer team in the 70s
and 80s, as "byu soccer" correctly stated. Coach Dusara was fired (rightfully
so), and BYU found an opportunity to move the program to club status, where the
team dominated, much as the men's volleyball team did before its move to NCAA
status.The team's current status is absolutely all about Title IX.
BYU has been formally offered funds by wealthy donors interested in seeing a
return to Division I status. Moreover, former players and coaches have offered
to operate a program at rock-bottom costs -- without scholarships -- to help
offset the cost to the athletic department. BYU men's soccer would be a Top 20
Division I team year in and year out without any scholarship players. The
quality is there, but the administration feels its hands are tied. For now, the program receives good support to play in the PDL, which is
actually a step up from most college programs. The current team is young, but
continues to win and has a bright future. Coach Watkins is leading the program
in the right direction.
I don't see in this story any mention of why Clay Christenson wants to go to
college, except to play soccer. No discussion of what he wants to study or his
plans for learning something. If there are no soccer scholarships, too bad. Most
kids--even very talented ones--don't get paid to go to college to do what they
are there for, whether they are majoring in music, chemistry, theater, foreign
languages, physics, or education, and certainly not for most of the
extracurricular activities they pursue.And, what's with the word
"scholarship"? There is noting the least bit scholarly about them.Too bad we have so many scholarships for basketball and football. I know this will goad the athletic junkies, but there are other things to do
in college than play games on a field. Soccer is a nice thing, but it's not what
school is for.***
Title 9 is discrimination. If folks were really concerned they would change it.
But they are not. Equality is a big lie. If you have to punish people for you
to feel equal you have serious social problems.
I agree with Anonymous. The BYU Idaho model is wonderful. It would be something
if BYU dropped its NCAA sports and went completely intramural. What a major
change.I've heard that it is likely not a possibility since so many
donors identify with the sports programs, particularly football and basketball.
When BYU wins donations are up. When BYU loses donations are down. What we don't
know is if there were no wins and loses what would happen to the donations.
Maybe the school financial guys should put more faith in their donnors. If they
didn't have to worry about down years, maybe that would offset the peaks of the
high income years when the teams are winning.
Or I'll connect a few dots...Chris Hill offers some excellent
reasons why men's soccer is not sponsored by Utah colleges and universities.
Cost, facilities, personell.One local university was able to cover
all their operating costs through outside donations and gate revenues. They were
turned down.A few years ago, the men's soccer program at another
local university earned the 3rd largest gate receipt on campus behind men's
football and basketball. The income reached close to $100,000.000 a year. With
the potential for more growth. Again the university turned away the program and
let it flouder, financially, for a number of years until it was recently
resusciated.Chris Hill is a soccer fan. He loves the game. His
daughter is a player. I'm sure he would support a men's program if he believed
it was viable. The problem is that at most other institutions where football
rules and where athletic directors hold outdated but deeply rooted bias, there
is little motivation to find solutions to the costs and facilities needed to
sponsor a college men's soccer program. Instead, there is the same chorus we've
heard for thirty years....no one else is sponsoring a team so we
Soccer will generate more fans in the future than any other sport outside of
football and basketball in the very near future. There are millions of people
now that have grown up playing the game, yes in America and they have very good
soccer IQ's. Just wait, if I'm an athletic director I'm definately keeping
soccer at my school. In Utah alone there are more soccer players per capita than
anywhere in the USA. It's here to stay like it or not.
BYU got rid of Wrestling because they wanted to, don't blame it on title IX. If
that were the case why does, Iowa, Oklahoma, Penn State, Michigan, Boise state,
Iowa State, Lehigh, Oklahoma State, Ohio State, Stanford, Wisconsin, Arizona
State.... I can go on and on, still have wrestling, why didn't title IX affect
hundreds of other schools. Athletic directors use title IX for any program
they want to get rid of. That way they don't take any heat. BYU could have kept
wrestling, no problem, as a matter of fact being a private school they don't
even have to follow the title IX rules as much as state funded universities. ASU
tried to drop wrestling two months ago and the people of Arizona threw such a
fit they kept it. Title IX or no title IX.
I've coached high school soccer, collegiate soccer and club soccer for 25 years.
I've worked closely with athletic directors of three major univerisities, two of
which are Utah schools. I appreciate the reasoning Chris Hill gives
for not sponsoring men's soccer. They are legitimate excuses. Money, facilities,
employees. However, there is one important factor that neither Chris nor this
article addressed.Instiutional Bias.Boiling just under
the radar are over forty years of it. In the late seventies and early eighties
when the soccer movement began its thirty year explosvie growth among youth and
high school aged players, football coaches saw the sport as a competitive drain
on their programs. They were losing a few good athletes. Players with
coodination. Players with speed. The bias continued into the professional ranks
where the sport was viewed as a potential revenue loss if allowed to grow.Football coaches were very cool to any ideas that would allow the growth
of men's soccer in colleges. Women's soccer, on the other hand, is a savior.
Allowing a sport with large rosters and scholarships to offset the football
rosters.Across the country most College ADs are former football
coaches.You can connect the other dots.
The truely great American men players coming out of high school go to Europe and
if they are good enough play in the European circuit. Most guys I know even in
college,UCSB, UCLA, Duke, etc. Stay maybe a year or two in college and jump to
the pros. These guys in college don't plan on staying long.
I agree with Soccer Bob. Title IX is the primary cause of the reduction of
certain men's sports at Universities. That is the cost of equality. Wrestling
was another sport that went by the wayside at many institutions. Most all universities are very careful to show a balance between the number of
men and women's sports so as to avoid even the appearance of preference. What
university wants to be exposed to the wrath of the NCAA and negative national
publicity.A school could add another men's sport to its program by
either adding another women's sport or deleting one of the men's. Life is full
of choices. That being said it allows my family of girls to play
Division 1 soccer. Is it fair?
BYU did play NCAA soccer back in the day. Coach Dusara led that team in the
70's and 80's.
More than anything I think soccer isn't an NCAA sport because too many
administrators are "old school". They gre up on baseball and football and they
just can't wrap their minds around soccer. Let's hope the next generation which
has grown up on soccer makes better decisions.The fact we don't have
more NCAA men's soccer teams is getting ridiculous. So many talented soccer
players are losing out because of this. It's the most played youth sport in our
country. Let's get with the times!
Title IX. Men's Soccer could probably pay for itself with the right marketing.
The problem is all the women's sports that don't generate ANY revenue, but have
to be there because of title IX.
Sad, but true.
Title IX is absolutely the reason Utah's colleges don't have mens programs. What
are you going to see BYU drop their nationally dominant Volleyball team to pick
up school sponsored Soccer? No way. How bout give up their wrestling program? O
wait, they already did that and they stil don't have room for soccer, or rugby,
or any other sports where locally Utahns excel.Soccer is a hard add
on because who are you going to compete against? Nobody has the programs, and
the reason nobody has the programs is because of Title IX.Now tell
me where the equality is when 70% of boys participate in sports actively while
only 20% of girls do, yet college sports need to offer an equal number of
scholarships to boys and girls? College sports and scholarship
requirements should be up to the university. It should be based on demand for
the sport, the amount of success and revenue it could bring to the University,
and not because of some government regulation.Title 9 promotes
discrimination, not equality.
Collegiate soccer is an exciting event. Tens of Americans can't be wrong.
Yes, Title IX and Economics. The cost of Football and Basketball is incredible.
Coaches, travel expenses, team expenses, and a new stadium carry a huge price
tag.Why do sports need to be NCAA? Perhaps it is time to look at
what BYU Idaho did. They cut all NCAA sports and put the money into intramural
sports and other student activities. Now instead of one basketball and one
football team that benefits only a handful, every student can participate on a
team. I believe their model is the future of college sports where everyone
competes and benefits. The side benefit is they no longer have all the academic
problems and other problems caused by NCAA sports.Club sports is
another great model. The BYU soccer club uses it effectively. UVU has a
fantastic Hockey team that is a club. Great attendance and exciting play.
Here is what I believe it used to cost to have NCAA soccer at BYU: uniforms, use
of a van or two for 3 or 4 road trips, gas, cheap motel rooms (or dorms at the
school we played), and a coach. The coach was also a PE person if I can
remember right and ran a camp in the summer. It doesn't seem that expensive.
Is it possible that there aren't enough women's sports or sports
interest to enable equality with men's sports? Is the issue that we have to be
equal, even if it means that men's sports have to be dropped so that there
aren't more men's sports than women's sports?
Back in the day, BYU had a wrastling and gymnastics team too but they were also
86'd by Title IX.
i didn't even need to read the article:title IX.. not that hard to
It's sad that the most popular sport in the world has so little support here in
the united states. The main problem is that Division IA schools can offer 85
football scholarships. That is such a huge number for the schools to try to
provide equal opportunity in order to comply with title IX. The schools just use
the excuse that these programs don't make money, when really they don't even
want to give them a chance. You can't tell me that 11 of those 85 scholarships
couldn't be taken from football and given to soccer, and both programs couldn't
still have success. Especially if they did this in all universities.
Westminster gives mens soccer scholarships. My son currently has a soccer
scholarship at Westminster. At the time he graduated from High School,
Westminster was the ONLY mens program in the state that gave scholarships for
mens soccer. That changes this year with the advent of the NCAA D-2 Dixie
College program. Even though Westminster is NAIA, they are not
associated with a conference, and their coach puts together their schedule each
year such that they not only play NAIA teams but also several NCAA programs. The
team currently has players who have transferred from playing for NCAA D-1
programs for a variety of reasons, e.g. desire to be closer to home,
out-of-state costs, etc.My son had several NCAA programs offer him
scholarships (D-1, D-2), but as noted in the article, the scholarship money for
mens soccer doesn't cover a large percentage of the out-of-state tuition and
living costs.Westminster has been generous with academic money as
well as the soccer money. They are a phenomenal academic institution. It's
been a great college choice for my son, both academically and athletically.
Most sports in college do not make any money, so the excuse cannot be economics,
since other money loser sports are played. It all has to do with Title IX. The
story says that it isn't all title IX since many other leagues do not offer mens
soccer. They do not offer mens soccer due to title IX. Soccer is popular
across the country, but until we do something about the arcane Title IX, mens
soccer will not be played in college.
What about baseball? They don't make much money
Ah, yes...political correctness reigns. Chris Hill knows full well that Title IX
is the culprit, and so does every other university AD in the state. And it's not
just soccer. Although BYU has never fielded an NCAA-level men's soccer team, it
used to have stellar programs in men's wrestling and gymnastics. As Mr. Hill
notes, it's very costly to gen up a program from scratch, but these were two
programs that were fielding highly competitive teams year after year that fell
prey to Title IX "equality". BYU made the decision in 1999 to terminate those
programs because other Mountain West schools dropped their programs to balance
the slate. Any one who says otherwise needs to check their history.I
think it's truly exciting to see the rise in women's NCAA sports, but we didn't
need to toss out the baby with the bath water. This doesn't need to be a "zero
sum" scenario, where you have to hurt men's sports to boost women's. The point
the article makes is spot on--college-bound men who are wrestlers, gymnasts or
soccer players have dramatically reduced choices when it comes to scholarships,
which saddens me. They're all great sports with great athletes.
Title IX and Economics... If it doesn't pay, they don't play.