Reason for the fires?

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  • hold on...
    July 14, 2008 8:06 a.m.

    No, Ryan, I understood just fine. You said that God sent a rare storm that started hundreds of little fires. What didn't I understand? That's what you wrote. Don't run and hide from your words. You want to blame gay people for fires. That's just stupid. At least own up to it.

  • Anonymous
    July 14, 2008 7:05 a.m.

    What?!? Did somebody actually say this? So who is to blame for all the fires that hit California every year? How many acres of Massachusetts are burning? Yes, you got criticism for this. That is because it is one of the stupidest things ever seen in a letters column.

    This is the sort of brain-dead crap that idiots drag out every time they need to blame gays for something. Turn your brain on, please.

  • Ryan
    July 14, 2008 5:25 a.m.

    hold on,

    I get the feeling you aren't trying to understand what I wrote.

    Perhaps you should do that before criticizing it.

    respectfully,

    Ryan

  • hold on...
    July 13, 2008 9:15 p.m.

    Ryan, you claim a "loving God" just might be sending "gentle reminders" to the people of California, in the form of fire?

    So, first, how do consider flames engulfing a home and destroying everything a person has, "gentle?" How do you consider a death from heat or smoke to be "gentle?" And how has God chosen which of his children to punish? Are only gay people effected by the fires? Or are others being punished for their transgressions, even though you believe a man is punished only for his own sins?

    This is no respect in your comments. There is irrationality, bigotry, anger and falsehood. But no, there's no respect.

    You know, I can't believe I'm wasting my time commenting to someone that is so absorbed in his self-righteousness that they cannot even see when they are offending the very God they claim to follow. Good luck with all that...

  • Charles
    July 13, 2008 8:58 p.m.

    to a real christian 12:38 am....just so you know, the God of the Old Testament and Christ of the New Testament are the same being.

    to Jewish take 4:20 pm... please read Jude in the New Testament and you will understand what the stench of S&G were...spells it out pretty plainly.

  • Could be...
    July 13, 2008 8:41 p.m.

    Jeff's god sounds a bit vindictive.
    That makes me thankful for my loving God.

  • RE: from a real christian
    July 13, 2008 6:26 p.m.

    RE: FROM A REAL CHRISTIAN

    Jesus did not replace the law of moses (the lower law)

    HE re-introduced the higher law. The law his people were living before the law of moses was instituted becasue the the poeple at that time could not or would not by their disobedience live by the higher law (which the ten commandments were actually a part).


    RE: JEWISH TAKE

    While you are right,

    However, their sins were not limited to that, evidenced by the men who wanted to "take" Lots visitors for themselves.

  • Jewish take
    July 13, 2008 4:20 p.m.

    "Despite the common perception that the sin of Sodom was rampant sexual vice, Jewish literature has largely rejected this reading. The Prophet Ezekiel locates the sin of Sodom in its inhospitality, its cruelty and perversion of justice, and not in homosexuality. He describes Sodom as arrogant and insensitive to human need. The residents of Sodom had plenty of bread and untroubled tranquility, yet they refused to support the poor and the needy.

    Among early rabbinic commentators, the common reading of the sin of Sodom was its cruelty, arrogance and disdain for the poor. The sages of the Babylonian Talmud also associated Sodom with the sins of pride, envy, cruelty to orphans, theft, murder, and perversion of justice. While the event which sealed the fate of the Sodomites was their demand for Lot to bring out his guests so that the mob might know them, this still was not seen so much as an act of sexual excess, but as hatred of the stranger and exploitation of the weak. Midrashic writers lavishly portray Sodom and the surrounding cities as arrogant and self-satisfied, destroyed for the sins of greed and indifference to the poor."

  • Just wondering
    July 13, 2008 2:57 p.m.

    Do you think the floods in Iowa are punishment for all the same-sex corn they grow?

    And what secret transgression did Chris Cannon commit?

  • Anonymous
    July 13, 2008 2:55 p.m.

    Gay people are the reason for fires?
    Move evidence that people have gone completely insane.

  • John
    July 13, 2008 2:36 p.m.

    "
    To John | 11:40 a.m. July 13, 2008
    The God of the OT turned people to pillars of Salt, he MO during the period of time was vengeful. The new law changed that. Yes it may be the same person, but there are stark differences as to how he acted."

    Uhhh, is He or is He not, an unchanging God?

    I see no scripture anywhere that says God has changed, but I do see a book at the end of the Bible, wherein God kills both good and evil people with impunity, so the original notion that God does not punish people, has no traction, according to the Bible.

  • Religion, what good is it?
    July 13, 2008 2:04 p.m.

    California has species of endemic plants whose seeds can't germinate without being subjected to fire first. The indigenous Californians where gay too?

  • Oscar
    July 13, 2008 1:58 p.m.

    Sarcasm!!

    Perhaps God is unhappy with the attitude in Utah regarding the rights of homosexuals and will unleash a horde of locusts this Autumn in time for the harvest!

    The only scary thing about such a statement is that some actually believe it. Remember that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blameed pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays and lesbians for the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.

    For the religiously extreme who subsist on such drivel, it's interesting to have such simplistic explainations for everything that happens. It also provides a means for them to justify their prejudice and bigotry.

    Supposedly nothing bad ever happens to someone without themselves to blame. It may not be evident, but with some investigation a reason for the bad event is sure to be found. The next time devestating floods come to Utah, it will certainly be due to God venting his wrath on the immorality and sin that He finds so distasteful.

  • Anonymous
    July 13, 2008 1:57 p.m.

    Such sick, delusions.

  • Ryan
    July 13, 2008 1:36 p.m.

    hold on...,

    To those of us who believe the whole world will be destroyed by fire, it is not far-fetched to think that a loving God would send gentle reminders.

    In this case, a rare storm with hundreds of bolts of lightning starting hundreds of small fires.

    I don't whether it was intended as a reminder or not. But the letter writer may be on to something, despite the poor choice of word "punish," due to the inadvertent implications of spite (even still, one should not punish a child out of spite, but to help the child grow).

    Respectfully,

    Ryan

  • Dear Jeff, Deseret News:
    July 13, 2008 12:00 p.m.

    I realize I will take some flak over this, but what is the possibility that all those (insert tragic, natural calamity here) in (some region of the world) aren't some sort of repercussion from allowing (a behavior that is non-conforming to a specific geographic culture and mindset yet otherwise legally based and accepted elsewhere in the world)?

    Clearly, not one possibility.

    Please cancel my subscription to this newspaper.

  • Gopherus
    July 13, 2008 11:44 a.m.

    Why do you worship a horrible (and I mean really horrible) God who harms innocents and the environment because he is displeased by the actions of a few. I find such a view reprehensible. I have also seen no evidence that there is a God that punishes regions for their politics or morality. There are immoral areas that go unpunished and other areas that receive far more catastrophe than warranted.
    I think its time for you to view the world as an adult.

  • To John
    July 13, 2008 11:40 a.m.

    The God of the OT turned people to pillars of Salt, he MO during the period of time was vengeful. The new law changed that. Yes it may be the same person, but there are stark differences as to how he acted.

  • Lewt
    July 13, 2008 11:28 a.m.

    If God were sending a message to Californians or anyone else, wouldn't he also send someone to make sure that the message was RECEIVED and UNDERSTOOD? Otherwise, it's just "random", and we have no reason to think we are more guilty than the unfortunate people of Myanmar.

  • Sure blame us again
    July 13, 2008 11:19 a.m.

    Ok, if that were the case, I would say the fire would have struck the California Supreme Court building while they were deliberating on some laws. This one is just plain silly.

    When the wildfires reach Utah (and we will get some), lets blame them on the judgmental, holier than thou attitudes of a portion of this community. When are we going to start treating all people with the respect they deserve?

  • Down with Fire
    July 13, 2008 11:12 a.m.

    I think fire is to blame. I heard him on the radio the other day. He's got to be stopped!

  • un-be-liev-able
    July 13, 2008 11:11 a.m.

    Marriage is currently available to same-sex couples in six countries. The Netherlands was the first, in 2001. Same-sex marriages are also legal in Belgium, Canada, Norway, South Africa and Spain, along with the U.S. states of Massachusetts and California.

    The first same-sex union with government recognition was obtained in Denmark in 1989. Civil unions, civil partnership, domestic partnership, unregistered partnership/unregistered co-habitation or registered partnerships offer varying amounts of the benefits of marriage and are available in: Andorra, Australia, Colombia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Portugal, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and Uruguay. They are also available in some parts of Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, the U.S. states of California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Oregon, Vermont, Washington, and the District of Columbia.

    Yep. It's a Second-Coming epidemic out there. Guess we should wipe it all clean so there won't be anymore of these pesky "natural" disasters.

    Let the Jeff Porters and the Deseret News' of the world continue carrying the torch of bigotry toward that which is unfamiliar and confusing to them.

    How embarrassing for you, newspaper, to have even thought about considering to run such a banal statement.

  • Please say this was in jest
    July 13, 2008 11:04 a.m.

    No, knowing the typical Utahn zealot it probably wasn't.

  • Dan
    July 13, 2008 10:24 a.m.

    Jeff, I'm certain you are correct.

    I'm equally certain that the recent rise in gas prices is global punishment for the Deseret News choosing to publish your asinine letters.

  • Following your reasoning..
    July 13, 2008 10:21 a.m.

    What sinning did Utahns do last year to bring on that huge fire in the middle of the state that caused so much havoc, then?

  • No more judgment
    July 13, 2008 9:51 a.m.

    I believe God has a stake in each individual's life and loves us all as individuals. It's a mistake to think we can determine the purpose for all the tragedies that occur in this world. They probably have myriad purposes and affect those affected all in different ways. Let's please stop with the blanket judgmental statements. We don't know the mind and will of God, except maybe small glimpses for our own personal lives. We can't say what His will is for others, unless you're the prophet.

  • John
    July 13, 2008 9:41 a.m.

    " from a real christian. | 12:38 a.m. July 13, 2008
    God does not punish, the God of the Old Testament and his method was replaced by a new law when Christ was born.

    Christ IS the God of the OT.

    I beg to differ, but it appears you are unfamiliar with the book of Revelation. God does, has, and will punish.

    Usually, His -punishment- is His withdrawal of His protections and blessings, which leaves us open to the buffetings of satan. A punishment all in itself.

    As for JTM@8:31, God is not sick and spiteful, but He will, and has, caused, the deaths of more people than you can count. We think its punishment when an innocent is taken, but He has a different view of what is important,and what is not. This life, is not all there is. It is a blip on the radar of our existence. Being taken from here, is not punishment.

    The Lord often preaches His own sermons, and its not always pretty to watch.

  • Harry
    July 13, 2008 9:35 a.m.

    The fires are being started by terrorists.

  • hold on...
    July 13, 2008 8:46 a.m.

    So Jeff thinks the gays brought about the fires. Ryan thinks it's a test, a trial. Either way, God is an arson, in your worlds. How sick is that?

    Ryan, God has to start a fire to remind people of him? Really? How ironic that a moronic supposition is signed "respectfully."

    I want no part of the God you two follow. And I am sick of self-righteous, self-appointed zealots who claim to know the mind of God.

    Jeff, I am glad that you realized you might take some flak for this letter. At least you knew how dumb the idea was before you wrote it. But then, after this realization, why did you write it...?

  • JTM
    July 13, 2008 8:31 a.m.

    no, its not possible, because that would make him a sick and spiteful person if he hurt and tortured people just to punish. Furthermore, what makes you think the victims of these fires have anything to do with this supposed "sinning?" By living in the same state? Would God punish certain people for others' sins? I think not.

  • liberal Larry
    July 13, 2008 7:26 a.m.

    I don't think you are going to get much traction on this "retribution" theory until Las Vegas is besieged by a few fires, earthquakes, and tornados.

  • Ryan
    July 13, 2008 5:51 a.m.

    Joe Moe,

    I don't know if "punish" is the right word, but I do believe God gives us trials to help turn us to Him. Perhaps the people in California needed something to do just that.

    Respectfully,

    Ryan

  • Kev
    July 13, 2008 1:11 a.m.

    Guess you agree with that nutty Pastor who said that 9/11 was because of the gays and of course your buddies the westboro Baptists that picket funerals of Solders that were killed in the middle east because america is tolerant of gays

  • from a real christian.
    July 13, 2008 12:38 a.m.

    God does not punish, the God of the Old Testament and his method was replaced by a new law when Christ was born. This is the same rhetoric I heard with Hurricane Katrina... Maybe God is punishing New Orleans for their wickedness.

    The major firestorms that occur each summer are almost a yearly event. Who do we blame for the Southern California fires from last years? and the year before when half the state of Utah was a blaze?

    I am sick of extreme Christians always trying to point blame and cast judgment on people.

    Go read the New Testament, and try to justify your attitude. God is one of love, and reached out to the ones in sin. I can see your type as the scribes and Pharisees that were trying to pass judgment on Jesus.

  • Eric
    July 13, 2008 12:36 a.m.

    When California homosexual couples start spontaneously bursting into flames, I will lean your way. Until then, I guess it's possible...

  • Joe Moe
    July 13, 2008 12:25 a.m.

    Good one. And on that note, I think that's kind of like what happened to the Willie/Martin handcart companies. They must have done something pretty terrible we don't know about to bring on such a harsh, early winter.