Critics say development would be costly, drain water supplies
We should have been drilling years ago and extracting the oil from shale years
ago.There are those--environmentalists, democrats and
communists--who seem to want to keep us dependent on foreign oil. Obama is
opposed to drilling in ANWR and the continental shelf, while the Cubans and
Chinese slant drill off our coasts, extracting the oil we can't because of laws
passed by the liberals and environmentalists. Obama seems to want
to all our eggs in one basket, searching for alternative energy sources while
not developing our oil resources. It would seem wiser to develop our oil
resources while we search for and develop alternative energy sources. We ought
to eventually become energy self-sufficient and divorce ourselves from the Arabs
and their blood-and-terrorist-tainted oil.
Typical behavior in modern America: propose a solution (oil shale), get lots of
blame in return.
To totally off the grid, you must be talking about our President's home, his
Texas ranch is off grid, he sells excess power back to the power co's, collects
rainwater for irrigation, while Al Bore's McMansion consumes 10x the power of
the average American, and just one of his private flights releases more
pollution and uses more natural resources than you and I will in our entire
lifetime. I ride one of my big bore Harley's more than I use my gas guzzling
P/U, and the Harley get's nearly 50mpg, does about 0 damage to the
infrastructure(roads)and used a whole lot less raw materials to produce, so lets
see more motorcycles out there, again Europe leads us here. And, far fewer of
you would cut me off cause 'you just didn't see me' if you rode as well. I
still stand by my statement of making Congress responsible for trying out all
these mandates before they push them on us, lead us by example. And the oil
leases not being used? Maybe no oil is there to drill for? Drill where we know
it is, offshore, Anwar, shale, wherever. And build more refineries in Mexico if
I'm a bit concerned about the shale drilling and possible ground water
contamination as I just purchased my retirement home in Pahrump, NV, right next
to Utah, and I get my water from a ground well. But, if the oil is there, we
should try and get it. Instead of generating hot water from a power plant, we
could build a Nuclear Reactor, and use the cooling water as a heat source, and
also gain a cheap alternative to fossil fueled electricity. One contributor
said 'we could have an electric car in every driveway'...but we do need power,
they need to be plugged in, and what about all the lead used in the production
of batteries? If Congress wants all these things, then let them start by
mandating all Gov't auto's be electric first, no more big limo's, they all ride
in Prius's, and no more private flights, Congress flies Commercial, just as they
used to. All the mandates by government are first tried on government before
making us the lab rats. And let's see a prolifiration of atomic power plants as
in Europe, cheap, unlimited energy.
gaining momentum. Canadians are drilling like crazy and ramping up
production.This is deeper oil than originally thought to have
existed. Is abiotic theory of oil true after all?Wow the
enviro-whackos will be sqawking the lies on this one soon.
Fedup, you say, "You think big oil is rolling in the money, they must pay for
getting that gas to your gas station...the government just gets all it's money
without doing a thing" They don't do a thing except build the roads
for the oil companies to drive on to get the oil to your gas station. Supply the
emergency response for when a oil semi is involved in an accident. Provide
protection so oil is not pirated. Use the military to protect oil interests.
Etc. . . But other then that.
person at 9:11 a.m. July 2, 2008, you said, "Get real, the government has
launched many investigations since the 70s against oil companies and not one of
them has ever found evidence of collusion." What!! You really have to
stop listening to the radio kids! I have a relative that owned an oil company,
he along with other oil execs got nailed for price fixing in the 70's, he lost
his co. No evidence of collusion, indeed! You think things
Steve, you are brainless. NASA is a government org. Ugly deserts? Barren deserts
that no one uses? you obviously have never been outside. You think if
we don't have limitless drilling we will have 20 dollar half gallons of ice
cream? You think if we drill ANWR, that that oil will be sold in the
USA, to take care of our domestic oil needs? How? Are we going to nationalize
big oil? Force them to sell the oil domestically?
You could blame Rocky and the Sierra Club for the delay on LH, but if Gov.
Leavitt had been honest with the Army Corps of Engineers with the environmental
impact statement, we could have avoided the unnecessary litigation. But, again,
you all miss the point. I'm just curious how oil execs get a free
pass in this whole thing. Obviously, people who wish to preserve our beautiful
natural lanmarks in Utah and in other areas of the nation will speak to defend
those interests. So what? Can you honestly say they have such undue influence
that the majority of Congress - both Rs and Ds - kowtow to their power and
might? Beyond that of the American public? Come on, give me a break. Is it at
least possible to think it is in the oil companies' best interests to maintain
the high prices? It's not as if they're saying, "well, I'd like to charge you
less if I could only get to ANWR." That just doesn't add up to me.
If we had a reasonable alternative for gasoline and diesel to power our
automobiles, trains, buses, tractor trailers and boats, I would be opposed to
extracting oil from oil shale. But we do not. And we do not have a reasonable
alternative in the near future. We must act now, or we will suffer the
consequences of our inaction in the future. Every time I drive I-15
between SLC and Layton with stop-and-go traffic, I thank the Sierra Club and
Rocky Anderson for delaying the Legacy Highway. I think about the millions of
gallons of fuel being wasted by cars starting and stopping unnecessarily when
the Legacy Highway and improving I-15 could have eliminated the traffic delays.
And what did Anderson et al accomplish besides an unnecessary delay? They
succeeded in keeping big trucks off the new highway, which will finally be
finished this fall, about five years too late. Big deal. Keeping trucks off
the new road is meaningless. And that's exactly what the
environmental extremists will succeed in doing while fighting oil shale
extraction. Delay, delay, delay, adding to our costs. I say drill
now and get off our dependence on foreign oil.
Okay, JimC. Youv'e seemed to master the art of hitting your ALL CAPS key to
make a clever dig, but you've completely ignored the FACTS. Explain to me why
the millions of proven oil fields currently leased on not being drilled?
Explain to me why it is very rare we hear your side say anything about the fact
the moratorium on drilling - even on federal lands - is limited to certain
areas.The problem with people like you is that you honestly believe
an increased supply will meet demand, thereby reducing the cost. While this may
be the case in many circumstances of our economy, it simply isn't so with regard
to controlled assets, such as oil. Price fixing is a real phenomenon. Blaming
the green crowd does not address the real issue, as is evidenced by the fact so
much proven land is currently available for drilling. Don't be
Lynn 7:01 p.m. July 2, 2008:"I think it's incredibly stupid to go
all out for ethanol as an alternate fuel. Every study I've read indicates it
takes way too much fuel compared to what is reaped for it to be truly practical
in the long run."Brazil seems to do quite nicely on ethanol. They
are independent of oil usage. However, sugar cane produces 6 times more ethanol
than corn. Maybe we should switch to sugar cane. Question: Can it be grown in
the US? How about sugar beets? I remember thinning and harvesting them as a
DRILL DRILL DRILL, Drill here drill now!What a Joke, "Drill here
Drill now" is nothing more then an attempt to change the subject. We need
Alterntives and unlike some on this board not all DEMS are "wacky
environmentalist" Where is the Electric car the DEMS demanded in
California? Shelfed by Arnold and the Rep boys. What happendend to the
Hydrogen cars promised in the Clinton Administration? Shelfed by Bush and the
boys. How much has Haliburtion stock went up since BUSH? From
$6.55 to $55.38.Follow the money people it will not lie to you. ALl
you have to do is ask why some pundent is making an argument. Check out who
funds them and presto you can see the spin.Big oil is the pupeteer
in this nation, they pull the strings!Think about this question, why
would big oil want more Refineries? Currently refiners are working at 85%
capacity, meaning they could produce more gas by ramping up production.Less supply equals less demand! More Refineries equals more SUPPLY! Do not blame the Dems for the lack of Refineries blame BIG BUSINESS.
Obviously, you do not have a 401K or retirement plan. The vast majority of
stocks in the oil companies are owned by 401K investors from small company
employees, blue color and white colar union groups etc. Exxon Mobil stock is
controlled by such investors. Quit targeting the oil companies. Sure some of
the fat cat CEO have a pension way too big but that is nothing compared to all
the middle class stock holders in these companies and their desire to have a
nest egg when they retire. Or do you liberal think that you can put everyone on
Social Security forever without any retirement plans? Bush is not the problem.
People with little knowledge and inexperience and doing the liberal knee jerk
reaction of having the big brother government try to fix it are the problem.
When has the government taking over anything been better for Americans? The
mafia is big brother elitist liberals and Marxists Democrats.
If the congressman or senator is against using our natural resources and keeping
us supplied with abundant and affordable electricity and fuel for our vehicles -
VOTE THEM OUT!!!!!If you have not figured it our by now - the so
called "greens" are not our friends!
Bin laden predicted 10 years ago that the West would start to bend and be
destroyed by high prices of oil. He predicted that at almost $145 dollars a
barrel, we would begin our demise. Well, he is right if we do nothing but whine
and complain that we can't drill our way out and sit on our hands. We need to
get drilling and whatever else we can do to become independent. It only took a
couple of years to create the atomic bomb once the Manhattan Project started.
That was a tremendous leap in technology. Getting us independent of foreign oil
is nothing compared to that. I also take issue with the ridiculous notion that
it will take years for oil to be pumped now to make a difference. If the
government and radical liberals get out of the way, we can produce and
protectthe environment in a very short time. We are Americans with a heritage
of can do.
regarding cng a very good idea just try to convert and see how far you get. the
epa has it sewed up so tight you can not do it.you have to get a certified
installer and the kit has to be certified also too expensive.and if you try to
do without certification the fine is $30.000 good luck i tried.
Like starving at a feast 12:06 p.m. July 2, 2008:"If Utah is smart
they will figure out how to control their own supply of oil, for less."Utah will sell it for what the market will pay. Just like any
entrepreneur.Oil prices are high because the oil industry has
figured out that if they manipulate supply they can get more for their product.
It's called monopoly. And they have figured out that there's little or nothing
anyone can do about it in the short run.That and speculators who buy
and sell pieces of paper called oil futures contracts (no oil changes hands)...
which should be illegal.
Good Call , JimC. Do believe guys like T. Boone Pickens. He says daily
production is 85 millon barrels. You neglected to mention though, that he also
says 85 million barrels or so is the most it will EVER be. And he would know a
lot more about the real potential of shale oil production than you or I. He is
one of the best known of those trying to warn the world about Peak Oil.
Cats | 9:53 a.m. July 2, 2008:"(By the way, I have a ranch with a
house that is totally off-grid solar...)"Congratulations!! Good
work. Can you give details? I envision plugging an electric car daily into a
solar panel for travel to/from work/grocery, etc.I think all new
houses built should be required by the building code to have installed solar
panels... and perhaps any other energy production devices.
Re: lynn | 9:11 a.m. July 2, 2008:"Any first year business student
understands that if you come up with something, the race is on to get it to the
market because great ideas dont sit around, they always leak out."Forty plus years ago I saw a silk stocking exhibit at the world's fair where
the stocking would not run... even when scratched repeatedly with the point of a
ten-penny nail. What happened to that technology? It apparently got swallowed
up and shelved by hosiery manufacturers. They prefer to continue to sell dozens
of pairs of women's hose per pear.Something similar could apply to
the auto and energy industry.
Well there are vocanic eruptions taking place in the artic. So much for the
theory that ice is breaking off and melting due to cars.......
And where are the other 60% of the oil companies' profits going? Let's see, 60%
of how many billions of dollars every quarter going to ... the big oil
companies. And these billions do not include what goes for R and D.I think
it's incredibly stupid to go all out for ethanol as an alternate fuel. Every
study I've read indicates it takes way too much fuel compared to what is reaped
for it to be truly practical in the long run. Or even the short run. It
furthermore takes an enormous amount of water and other materials such as
fertilizers to grow it, and all the while food prices are going up because of
all of the millions of acres of food production taken out of use so they can
grow fuel corn.The corporations who used to grow green beans or soybeans
are now growing corn for fuel. So the price of beans and every other farm
product goes up because less are being produced.I understand the
temptation to do it. Short term, it seems great.And yes there are other
factors hurting our economy. But the biggest single factor is big oil
Democrats on increasing energy supply (any form) and thus decreasing price: "NO,
NO, and further more, NO!"Republican solution: Go get more energy
(all forms) and increase the supply and the price goes down!"No
brainer question to Americans: "Who should YOU vote for this coming election?
The mere passing of legislation to overturn the democRATic Party back door act
of the December 2007 Omnibus Spending Bill, would IMMEDIATELY drop oil on
'COMMODITY' markets. (NO Alwhore, energy prices are not set by oil execs in a
smoke filled room!!)The commodities market is driven FIRST by
emotion and FUTURE events (why do you think its called the 'futures market'?)
Secondly, it IS driven by supply. DON'T believe the liberal democRATS and their
media friends that it's driven more by 'speculators'. Do believe
guys like T. Boone Pickens (he made in the neighborhood of $1 billion in 2007!)
when he says daily worldwide production is 85 million bls, BUT daily demand is
86 million. This indicates a supply issue and not speculation. Utah
has two fine Senators who NEED to expose the real cuplrits of high energy prices
of today - the democRATS, specifically the ones currently controlling congress.
ONLY they can grant access to federal lands, not Bush or ExxonMobil. Shell has the most to gain for their 'in-siti' process. Their process
consumes very little water, or how about Global Resource Corp's microwave tech
in a vacumm, no water and 'Alwhore' NO CO2!
From a government commissioned RAND Corporation report: "Under high growth
assumptions, an oil shale production level of 1 million barrels per day is
probably more than 20 years in the future, and 3 million barrels per day is
probably more than 30 years into the future." Twenty to thirty years
into the future, the worldwide production of oil from the sources we are using
now will have dropped by tens of millions of barrels a day. So by 2038 the
contribution of shale will mean our world production shortfall may be only 27
million barrels per day rather than 30. It may make a bad situation slightly
less bad, but all you will know in thirty years is that it is bad.
What's going on here is yet another example of political gamesmanship (and I
hold both political parties responsible), allowing the oil and gas corporations
to increase and assure huge industry profits at the expense of the American
people. These companies don't want to drill these areas. They want to hold
them as assets to limit the amount of oil and gas on the market so that prices
rise still further - and they make more money. They want to hold on to these
areas so that they can drill them ten or fifteen years from now in order to
In no way is electricity a sham- and for you to refer to someone as stupid for
believing as such is an ignorant truck loving comment; if electricity were a
sham then why is it that the most oil efficient car is an electric hybrid (not
counting the air car- which requires no oil) at 52 MPG?Imagine this:
right outside your 17 car garage below where your confederate flag hangs, you
could have an electrical outlet with photo voltaic cells that are nearly capable
of integrating 30% of the suns energy (Joules baby!)Come home at
night, plug it (or all 17 of them in) and ride away in the morning. Mean while you could also consider putting solar panels on your 50 gajillion
sq ft. house to deal with all the nrg you need for that theatre you have in your
basement,etc. food costs? Find a Community Sustained Agriculture
(CSA) project, or better yet, make your own garden for that stay at home wife of
yours who gan grow crops 7-8 months out of the year. Am i being
condescending? Yes, but electricity is in no way stupid. An Oil America, now
thats stupid.wah, wah, wah...
This is the story throughout the country; more than 44 million acres of onshore
public lands are leased for oil and gas development and yet most of it is not
being drilled. All told (onshore and offshore), 68 million acres are leased and
sitting idle. Over 10,000 permits are currently 'stockpiled' by industry. But
still they want more. Between 1999 and 2007, the number of drilling
permits issued for development of public lands increased by more than 361%. And
did you see your gasoline costs drop? How about your electricity costs?
Propane? Natural gas? Uh...no. Based on these figures, there doesn't appear to
be a huge correlation between the industrialization of public lands and the
price of fossil fuels. It has been estimated that if all of those
currently inactive leases were drilled, the USA would produce an additional 4.8
million barrels of oil and 44.7 billion cubic feet of natural gas EVERY DAY,
accounting for a doubling of US oil production and a 75% increase in US natural
gas production. The Minerals Management Service tells us that about 80% of
fossil fuels available in offshore are currently available for development.
My recent readings led me to some interesting facts on domestic oil drilling.
First of all, there is no "ban," as some people like to call it. In reality,
there is a moratorium on drilling in certain coastal areas. Other areas are not
only open to drilling but leases and drilling permits have already been issued.
These areas are not being drilled. In fact, only 17%
of the leased area is in production. So, with about 33 million acres of
offshore areas already available to drill and not being drilled, why does the
oil and gas industry need to have access to still more? The fact is that nearly
25 BILLION barrels of oil off the coast of the United States is currently
available for drilling...and industry is not drilling it. Not to mention
natural gas. Most of the natural gas occurring offshore (over 328 TRILLION
cubic feet an eleven year supply at current consumption rates) is currently
available for leasing and development. And they're not going after
Actualy estimates of the Bakken oil field range from a low of 3 billion barrels
to a high of 900 billion barrels. These of course are all estimates but the
current production there suggests a number much higher than 3 billion.So, for the poster at 3:14 PM your number of 1 billion is quite a bit off.
Your post begs two other questions as well 1)If oil companies are willing to
risk their money developing the resource why do you care? Do you want the Evil
Oil Companies to keep all their ill gotten gains? 2) if there is only enough
for 500 days that is 1 1/2 years worth of oil that we can use. It would be
completely irresponsible of us to not use it.
Oil shale is a chimera. It has been touted for more than 40 years. Like all
government rhetoric about gaining "oil independence" nothing ever comes of it.
The government does not have the incentive to do anything. Remember theOil
Crisis" of 1972 and all the surrounding promises? Nothing happened. We will all
get used to $4.00+ gas and nothing will happen until the next "Crisis."
Over 40 percent of the "obscene" profits are owned by 401k investors. That's
common folk to you and me. If I buy stock in an oil company, I will get less
than 10 precent profit. If I invest in corn, however, as an "alternative fuel
source", I would get much more. A bushel of corn has increased in price much
faster than oil. Where's your outrage for the obscene profits of the farmers?
After all, corn makes flour, tortillas, etc. I'm watching my food
prices go up because of the obscene profits of the corn farmers. Are you with
me, or do you simply have a political agenda?
The 500 billion bbls in Bakken Oil Field are an Internet myth, according to the
USGS. There's only about 1 billion bbls, or roughly 500 days supply.
Why would we want to rely on a Country like Irag for our oil. We are paying
over $4 a gallon, and they are paying $.48. We need to think of all our
citizens, not just the rich. I have seen areas that have been used for years
and years for lumber, drilling or whatever, and when they leave you can't even
tell they have been there. It looks better than it did before. It is better
for the enviroment than doing NOTHING!
We exist in the lifestyle we have now as a result of the use of hydocarbons -
oil, nat gas and coal. It is not just an issue of driving our cars or not!
growing our food takes tons of fertilizer that is made from oil, transported to
the fields by diesel truck, harvested by a metal tractor - whose metal is made
with processes that use oil, gas and coal.Aluminum is only available
because of our ability to consume massive amounts of electricity to refine
it.What about plastic and ther formation into everything we use to
live? Oil, and oil.Nearly everything in our economy is dependent on
oil or coal or natural gas.
Look where your dollars are going.Look who is making the money.Not
just a little - I have no quarrel with people making a reasonable profit. But
this is obscene and at the expense of the American economy. It isn't only what
I put in my gas tank. It's the price of everything else going up because the
oil companies are charging almost $5.00 a gallon for diesel, which for almost
100 years has been practically a throwaway fuel; now they're charging more for
it than for the most expensive designer fuels. And they are doing it
because they can.Along with millions of acres of farmland going for corn
for fuel, raising food prices even more.You think that because the
so-called investigations haven't proven price fixing that it doesn't exist?Silly boy.Look around you. Watch what happens every few days as prices
continue to go up and up at the pumps, almost within minutes of each other,
within a couple of cents of each other.Don't forget what happened in
California when Enron, primarily, staged the phoney gas shortage and made
millions, or billions of extra dollars.The oil companies are not our
Re: Jeff | 7:05 a.m. July 2, 2008 Oil Shale is more likely to be
found near Vernal. Though, it would not surprise me if some other form of
hydrocarbon were found near Price.Oil was found down near Salina and
exploration is taking place on the mountains west of Manti.
The "left" would love to tell you what kind/size of car to drive and this is
there way of "forcing" you to do it. Drive oil prices high enough, with their
endless environmental excuses for developing our own resources, so that we are
all stuck in an ugly Prius. No mention of the fact nobody will be
able to afford to drive anywhere to enjoy any of the environment we have
preserved anyways!!There is never an shade of reasonableness or
balance on the left--only "no this won't work" or "this will damage this".
People and their way of life always come second in their view. All
the nay-saying liberals had all the same excuses about developing the oil-sands
in Alberta, which is where I am from. Now my family is getting "prosperity"
checks (hundreds $$ each)mailed to them from the government because of the
ridiculous amounts of oil revenue generated from the oils sands that "could not
be developed". They are producing 1.5 million barrels/day with a plan to
quadruple production soon. Strange since the environmentalists said
that "it could not be done". You can can not trust them as far as you can throw
their worthless carcasses!!!
Some comments here state that we should move away from big oil and we could all
have electric cars in our driveways if we just tried and that would solve the
whole problem (Re:Here we go again 8:48). I can't believe how stupid some
people are. Just because you get electricity from a little plug in the wall
doesn't mean that it is an acceptable source of energy. Most electricity in
Utah is from coal power plants, and most new power plants are using natural gas
to generate electricity (which comes from oil companies you dummies!). If you
think by driving an electric car you are saving the environment and sticking it
to the man you are worse than the people you look down upon!
I think one of the biggest problems with these comments is that all of the
responders who say drill, drill, drill, don't live in communities the drilling
happens in. Their perspective might change if someone came in took
over their land, put in a road and said we're drilling here to give everyone
more oil. It's ridiculous to think about how much money oil companies are
making right now and that they can't do a better job for the communities they
are in. Until the oil companies are held responsible to be better community
partners, I say don't drill. If they can step up and find more ways to make
this all work--then drill. It should all be on the government to regulate, but
who else will at this point?
It's all the Republicans aka George Bushes fault! Republicans don't care about
the enviroment! They don't care if kids have deformities from pollution! Lets
get rid of big oil. Who needs plastics, autos, fertilizers etc. Go natural, hug
a tree and smile! :-)Paid for by the Osama for President
I'll tell you:electric cars powered by solar electricity.there
you go. love, an environmentalist.
As a lifelong Utahn who lives out here in the Uintah Basin where all this tar
sand and shale source oil is I simply as the following:Senators
Hatch and Bennett (and all the other Utah congressmen), please don't allow your
support of this effort to run amock and be the next China environmental
disaster.China went hell-bent for its vast coal reserves and what
little oil it possesses and in the hellter-skelter manner in which you and your
Republican colleagues appear to be doing, want to throw responsible stewardship
of our ecology, and environment to wind, in the hopes that somehow the wind will
blow the problems away. PLEASE! Don't fall into the trap of Republican hard-ass
for the Corporations only attitude of doing something today that long after
you're dead and gone will have to be dealt with by your grand children's
generation... all because you decided to cave into Corporate Socialism.Let's go after the oil sources, but make Corporations pay their way... all the
way, and for God's sake take a more consequential perspective of what todays
actions could or can result in... some of it irreversable.Time for
RESPONSIBLE and THOUGHTFUL decisions and actions.
If you can't ride a bike to work- buy an air car (youtube: air car), there cheap
and can run forever, or better yet, a bus pass I ride the bus (or bike)
everywhere I go and I live in a very rural area. and James, no, we
shouldn't get energy from all resources available- solar and wind power have
little effect on the environment in comparison to fossil fuels and fit the
american ideal of consume consume consume Electricity is the answer-
and no the electric companies will not be in charge; you will be, buy solar
panels, it'll will pay itself off in the long run.you can say all
you want but Americans are being absolute idiots right now. We have all the
resources available to be independent; no one is willing to sacrifice the
minutia of their lives, they would rather sit at a computer all day and
complain. wah wah wah, 5,000 sq. ft houses and SUVs, wah wah wah
Ok! Here we go again.Need the domestic produced oil? Absolutely!Need to get it from whatever sources possible? Yes... within reasonable
limits.Utah an opportunity for doing so? You bet!Can
Utah afford to do it, both economically and ecologically? Maybe.And
there's the catch!Economically speaking, I live right in the middle
of the oil patch out here in the Uinta Basin, and frankly, it's hell on housing,
businesses and essential services. The oil industry creates a wage/benefits
expectation that is not possible for local businesses to keep up with, and
housing is at the whims of the roller coaster effects of oil jobs and on the
whole the oil industry costs impacts essential and social services to a far
higher level than is given back... Possible solution: Dispense
with county-based system of special district funding that's derived from State
oil revenues and implement a 'regional' system so a county like Duchesne county,
which provides 1/2 of the jobs (and all that that impacts) receives more than
15% of overall Basin produced oil lease/severence tax revenues... and make oil
companies guarantee jobs to locals before bringing in outsiders.The
ecological considerations... well... water impact is key here.
Environmentalists say:No oil, no coal because of global warmingNo ethanol because poor people need our cornNo wind mills because they
kill birdsNo hydroelectric because dams hurt fishNo solar because
the panels would affect the land they sit onNo Nuclear because of
the wasteNo hydrogen because it is unstableNo electric cars because
coal makes electricityPlease environmentalist....Tell us what
alternatives you will support because you are killing us.
L. C. Price., working for the US Geological Survey [USGS] performed
extensive chemical analysis of abandoned oil wells (Bakken Oil Fields),
primarily in North Dakota and came away with an astonishing conclusionThe Bakken
trend contains up to 200 billion to 500 billion, yes that is with a B, of
original oil in place. The Bakken Field Light Sweet Crude dwarfs the Saudi oil
fields of 55 billion. The USGS, 9 years later, still has refused to release
Prices report and their review of Prices work.As recently as 2006,
geologists J.Flannery and J. Kraus presented a paper using even more
sophisticated computer modeling and extensive data input from The North Dakota
Geological Survey and Oil and Gas Division. The model and data estimated initial
barrels in place at 200 billion and prior to the papers release in 2006
estimates were refined upwards to 300 billion barrels of oil in place in North
Dakota and Montana alone
I hear there are more barrels of oil than ever before and yet we pay more at the
pump. Maybe the problem isn't that demand exceeds the supply of oil, but rather
the problem is those who control it. If Utah is smart they will figure out how
to control their own supply of oil, for less. What? We already have
the answer in oil shale? We must be stupid. What exactly will producing it do to
the lonely desert? Of what use is the desert to you now? Conservation is a
method to keep what is about to go extinct. Oil shale is not on the verge of
extinction. Food on my table, roof over my head, transportation to work that
supplies for my needs: these are the things that face extinction, all because we
won't go after the resources the good Earth intends for our use.Techniques for extracting shale on state lands have proven that it can be done
effectively and cheaper. Wake up, feds. In the process Utah could save the
countries energy needs. If you don't want modernization &
civilization, there are plenty of pollutant free, desolate areas of the U.S. Go
republicans...you dont know how to say IM SORRY because of our president...how
sad!!!this is not about liberal, this is about big people making a lot of
money, there is resource, technology, money to invest in new ways to make a
different product for our cars. THIS IS ABOUT MONEY AND POLITICS, THERE IS NO
REASON TO HAVE THIS PRICES!!! OIL MAFIA makig this up because of the money!!!
"I want a liberal or a Democrat to tell me at what point you will say
drill now, drill here.Is it 10 dollars per gallon when you can no longer
afford to go to the grocery store.."I'll give you a response: why
does everyone assume that extracting more oil here will make the price go down?
Oil companies charge what they charge because they CAN, we are willing to pay
their prices, no matter how much they raise them. If they can drill closer to
home, and save money doing so, it seems nice to believe they'd pass those
savings onto the consumer, but why is this assumed? Why would the oil companies
EVER lower prices if we're still willing to pay higher? If we didn't NEED gas,
then we wouldnt be as willing to pay their prices, then they'd lose business,
then they'd lower prices. The only way to lower prices is to create
ALTERNATIVES.. Drilling in ANWR, oil shale, all of that is going to have NO
effect on gas prices.
When we seek God's will, we will turn from going after riches. God comes to
destroy the wicked who are destroying the earth. God has solutions to world
problems we created by ignoring His wisdom.The goal in life is not
employment. The goal is retirement in a garden paradise that we can create here
and now. If we pray for God's kingdom now, God can raise up someone into the
presidency that can help us establish His written word as the law of the land.
He said that when He comes God's law will be the only law; we must want it or we
will not get it.Our manufacturing and transporting goods is
polluting our world even if we could get all the oil and energy from the shale.
Tell your candidates and leaders to head toward the freedom of producing our
needs in our communities.The retirement lifestyle in a garden
paradise has landscaping and pets useful for producing fresh food for healthy
bodies. This solves world problems of pollution, global-warming, disease, wars,
energy and food crisis, immigration and inequality. Isaiah 2:4 "They shall beat
their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks..": GARDEN
No, Obama Republican, OPEC will not pump more oil. Not because it doesn't want
to, but because it can't. OPEC is drilling and installing infrastructure at a
frantic pace just to compensate for the loss of production from it's existing
developments due to depletion. It is running as hard as it can to stand still,
and soon that won't be enough. It's production will begin to fall.This is
bad news for everybody, but especially for those who do not believe it will
happen and do nothing to prepare for it.The definitive book on this
subject, "Twilight in the Desert", was written by Matthew Simmons, a good
republican former energy advisor to the president who grew up in Kaysville.
This is not the first time that oil from tar sands has been proposed in Utah.
The problem in the past has been that the profitability of such a venture could
not be realized with gas under $1.00 a gallon. Now we are around $4.00 a gallon,
might just work now. The earth is full there is enough and to spare.
to Re: American: Read up on YOUR US history! Liberal meant something quite
different then than it does now!
It's funny when people go on about how "WE" need to get "OUR" oil out of
the ground as if all this oil will be earmarked for US consumption and not sold
on the global market to the highest bidder. The price of gas won't
go down a cent. Conservatives destroyed the dollar, started a stupid war in the
middle east, and ruined the american brand and now think they can blame
everything on environmentalists. Haven't you people done enough to
You know it is sad that time is repeating itself. In the late 70s these same
arguments were tossed around. Oil sands, Tar sands, cleand burning coal. Americans are so reactionaring in thougt. We only can see the end of
our noses. Oil is not the answer to our problems!Every President
since Nixon has promised to break our oil Addiction. Nothing has been or will
be done if Mccain is elected. Everyone needs to cut their own
consumption, stop buying huge gas guzzlers, and realize we are all in this
together.Cost are high now, but watch, OPEC will start to pump more
and more and bring costs of oil down. Opec is a cartel and wants to sell as
much as possible without hurting demand. If real alternatives surface, Oil
supplies will jump and prices will go down. OPEC will do what ever
it takes to kill off alternatives. Mark my words, Once this crisis ends, all
the calls for New Forms of Energy will die.
Read up on your US history, if the founding fathers weren't extreemly liberal we
would still be under british rule.
This is for Mormons. In Mormon 8, the prophet says "I have seen your day . . .
vapors of smoke . . . great pollutions upon the face of the earth." As LDS we
should be first in line to vote for a Manhattan Project to produce alternative
fuels (the Obama approach). Hydrogen cars are already on the show floors in
Japan. Why choke ourselves on death gases when the prophets and the scientists
are telling us we're crazy?
There is one solution which we can all implement immediately. CNG is a viable
and extremely cheap (63 cents a gallon in Utah) alternative to fossil fuels for
powering vehicles. We are swimming in natural gas in Utah so none of the revenue
goes overseas. Also, my CNG powered truck pollutes less than any non-CNG vehicle
on the road. So CNG is a very environmentally friendly solution. CNG vehicles
are readily available at KSL.com classifieds or by conversion. There is some
inconvenience. There are not as many CNG filling stations as we would like. But
if you are seriously green or you want to break the hold of the middle east and
the oil companies on your wallet, CNG is a very attractive solution. I feel a
great satisfaction every time I fill my tank both from a cost standpoint and
knowing that my money will stay in Utah. If you are serious about your beliefs
and not just full of hot air then check it out buy a CNG vehicle or convert the
one you have. Then volunteer to drive for the carpool.
TO SAM: RIGHT ON! I can see Sam is someone who understands the issue and has a
reasonable approach. Let's move forward in a responsible way. We
need immediate drilling, oil shale, tar sands, coal gasification and nuclear
along with every other alternative source possible. Let's get
together and do it all!
Is is that hard? Drill & produce new kinds of energy sources. Why does it have
to be one or the other? We should produce in any way, shape or form and continue
to look for renewable energy sources.
I do not oppose energy development. But I do think people should be aware that
we have vastly inflated expectations of what it will do for us. Our original
conventional oil endowment was enormous as well as very cheap to extract, refine
and use. Those are the characteristics that allowed us to put large quantities
of it to trivial uses and enjoy the lifestyle we have lived for the last half
century.Whatever energy source we use to take it's place will be produced
at low rates at great difficulty and expense. We will have to learn to use it
much more frugally than we are accustomed to. Our cheap energy fantasies will
remain unfulfilled and we will do what we have to do to cope in the real future
that we will be living in instead.
Amazing how angry an full of hate everyone is.I can't ride a bike to
work. Its too far, and who wants to work with someone who rode their bike twenty
miles when its 105 degrees outside? Who can ride a bike, when there is a foot of
snow on the roads. Shut up already about riding a bike as an alternative.Next, shut up already about electricity being the alternative. Only
idiots think electricity is a source of power. It has to be generated, and that
takes power.The mean oil companies are NOT making record profits
based on percentage of sales. Walmart outdoes the mean old oil companies by
percentages. Oil companies just sell a LOT of oil and gas. What is
the point in saving portions of a boring desert, that without transportation, no
one can visit anyway, and that goes for ANWR. Quit falling for the
lies that it will take ten years to deliver. We went from airplanes, to the
moon, in less time. Oh, and please, by all means, let's use
electricity because its cheap, until the power companies gain control, and then
you will see how -cheap- electric becomes. Learn from the past.
This is not an either-or question. For the moment, our economy is based on
fossil fuels. Every product has an energy component to its production and
transportation. A rise in the price of that energy ripples through the economy
raising prices and causing economic dislocations. Exploration and development of
fossil fuel sources is imperative or we will see the cost of energy further
spiral upward with the concomitant damage to our economy. At the same time the
amount of fossil fuel is limited and demand is growing. We need to move forward
as quickly as possible with alternative fuel sources and conservation
techniques. The recent rapid rise in oil prices will help drive that push since
alternative energy can now more easily compete with fossil fuel sources. The
point is the solution is multi-pronged. Stop fighting and cooperate. Fossil
fuels can be recovered with minimal damage to the environment. Alternative fuel
sources need to be developed and brought on line. This problem has a solution
but partisan bickering will only slow the process.
If there had been liberals in New England in the 18th century, we would still be
paying tribute to the British crown and we never would have crossed the
Mississippi, because we might have damaged the prairie - and, heaven forbid, put
asphalt roads all over the place.
I agree with most people on here. I believe that we should drill anywhere that
we can find oil. Hannity believes that we should even drill in Yellowstone or
Zions if there is cheap oil there, and I couldn't agree more! This is hitting
me in my wallet and I couldn't care less about "pretty thing" to look at.These progressives tell us that we can't drill in certain places because
of bears, deer or birds might become extinct. Well I don't care about that!
What I do care about is being able to get cheap gas to drive to the store,
movies and stock car races on saturdays. I think nature is ours to
use in the way that we see fit. If that includes drilling through it to get
oil, then so be it. I may not have a fancy degree or anything, but it makes
perfect sense to me.
Only in Utah would any politician feel comfortable standing arm-in-arm with big
I can see a few people around here could use a class in economics.In
any case, we need to develop any energy resources we have available to us. We
need to do this in the most environmentally responsible way possible. These
resources include, conservation, solar, wind, geothermal, oil shale, coal
gasification, tar sands, oil drilling, nuclear and any other possibilities that
exist. (By the way, I have a ranch with a house that is totally off-grid solar.
I'm all for solar, but I'm not an idiot. I understand the realities of the
world situation.) As much as we can use renewable resources in an
economically feasible way--that's FABULOUS! However, we need a bridge to until
we can get there. That means we need immediate drilling and other forms of oil
that can be exploited. Our security depends on it. And for those
of you who don't like war, (myself included) the fastest way to get to military
action is if the western world can't get access to adequate energy. I don't
want to see that happen. Let's be smart. Let's get off foreign fuels and live
a peaceful, prosperous existance.GO TAR SANDS, OIL SHALE, DRILLING
Re: Re: Fragile Are Work?Why are you being so rude to people?
Belittling them at every turn is not a solution to our countries energy
problems. I like your comment about riding a bike. Does anyone know why people
in Europe ride bikes and walk so much of the time, and we dont? Its because
their cities are more condensed, not so spread out. Its not efficient for us to
rid bikes or walk. Lets all stop the, I know everything attitude, and the, I
know what is better for you then you do and lets start working for solutions!!!
I want renewable energy, I also want every other type of energy. Someone please
explain to me why this is bad, tapping all energy sources? Not just a select
Guess what? The government makes WAY WAY more money from gas taxes than big oil
makes. You think big oil is rolling in the money, they must pay for getting
that gas to your gas station...the government just gets all it's money without
doing a thing. Even if the government lifts the moratorium on getting oil from
shale, they don't have to spend a penny to extract or refine it! It's not the
Bush administration, it's the Liberals and the Environmentalists that are
causing our gas prices to rise. Get real, people, the USA needs to access our
OWN resources, and the government should stop putting up roadblocks. NOW!
Do it now!
The country needs to look at other energy alternatives besides fossil fuels.
Plus, Utah does not have enough water in state to support the transformation.
Its the greedy, fat, celebrity worshipping, bible thumping Americans who are at
fault. Thanks for that insight ike, your contribution to the discussion was
substantial, like breaking wind in the middle of a tornado. Please refrain from
throwing around the usual conservative stereotypes the next time you throw your
hat in the ring.
Get real, the government has launched many investigations since the 70s against
oil companies and not one of them has ever found evidence of collusion. The
profit margin (around 9%) for domestic oil companies is in line with historical
averages, its not their fault the world market drove oil to an obscene amount.
As for the monopoly argument, look up the percentage of the world oil market
that U.S. companies control and then get back to me. The amount is minimal.
The controlling factor belongs to OPEC and Russia. The idea that oil companies
bought out viable alternative technologies and are just sitting on them is
laughable. Anything one company created can be reversed engineered by another
company, it happens all the time in the technology industry (processors, video
chips, etc.), the pharmaceutical industry (Viagra and other like drugs) and
every other industry. Any first year business student understands that if you
come up with something, the race is on to get it to the market because great
ideas dont sit around, they always leak out. Please keep the conspiracy
theories confined to Hollywood.
Utah's GOP senators are pushing increased production of oil shale on the same
day Utah's governor is pushing a hare-brained cap on carbon emissions.One would have to conclude they didn't even bother to discuss the issue with
Governor Silver Spoon beforehand. Otherwise, this appears to be another
depressing example of the Republicans talking out of both sides of their
mouths.And then they have the gall to wonder why most of their base
doesn't show up on election day.
"Many of us are on the brink of losing our homes because we can not afford any
thing anymore. Every little thing starts adding up. Lets see Questar is going to
increase rates about 22% this winter, property taxes are up, food costs more....
in short WE ARE SUFFERING!"Ride a BikeBuy a Wood Pellet
burning stove ($200 for an entire winter in Northern New York) or better yet
wear a jacket, I know it doesn't get that cold in Utah.Eat less
food- i'm not saying starve, but we are a glutnous country. You are
not suffering, you are merely being irresponsible or dumb. Quit crying, you are
a typical republican: You want the government to be as little involved with your
life until old man oil starts beating you up. But after all- its the
environmentalists fault right? We've been warned for a long time and if you are
suffering now it is because you've had your eyes closed. Currently I make money
in energy by giving renewable nrg back to the Power company- I listened.wah wah wah, uncle sam mean old liberals are trying to save the planet
while I waste it, wah wah wah
Didn't anyone notice when the oil company guy said they might be ready to
actually do this in 5 to 10 years? Prices will still rise in the meantime, and I
would guess even after these sources are tapped. It's pretty clear that when we
are dealing with a finite resource, the only real solution is an alternative
HUH? Lynn do you actually have any idea what you are talking about? Have you
been watching too much NBC News? Oil companies are not making big profits on
gas, they are making a majority of their profits from the exploration and
production of their Oil/Natural Gas wells. The price is set by speculators. When
was the last time you took a nice beautiful drive out in the vernal area? hmmm
ya there is nothing at all to look at out there so why not develop it. Lynn lets
say you own 5 oil wells would you be a nice person and sell your oil for $50 a
barrel to help out some guy around the corner or would you sell it at the market
price of $142 a barrel to help out your wallet, come on be honest.
When the Government finally decided it was time to go to the Moon, they scraped
their program and hired NASA a civilian organization. Orrin Hatch and Bob
Bennett are saying to the government, get out of the way. Here are some private
companies willing to develop this and make it work, and put up there own money
at their own risk. Democrats and Liberals say no, we trust our
government to do it. Who in the government, or which branch of the government
is going to develop new alternatives. WE DON"T HAVE A RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
DEPARTMENT IN THE GOVERNMENT. We have the EPA, Department of Natural Resources,
the Energy Department, ETC. but they don't do anything but regulate.and while you sit and wait for THEM to do it, which will take THEM several
years, what do we do in the mean time.P.S. I haven't heard anything
from Obama or McCain on any new alternatives because they don't have one.
I love the "liberal" word thrown around like it was a curse word. I wouldn't be
too proud calling yourself conservative...after all you are the bunch of noodle
heads that elected this no-brain or heart having administration. Alternate
energy is the only way out of this spiraling inversion. Our environment should
be a top concern but it isn't, education should be right up htere with
health-care but it isn't, we seem to only care about oil and
celebrities...Americans are lazy, that is it in a nut-shell. We refuse to walk,
bicycle or take any pro-active stand. We want to whine and complain because that
is America. We care more about fashion than life. Get real, liberal or
conservative we are all people and we all have to breath, drink and eat the very
things we are polluting at an astronomical rate. Pull your head out of the
sand/shale; oil companies will not give up on screwing every American they can,
once our country falls, and it will fall, the rest of us will flail in our death
throws while big oil feasts on our flesh.
"Big Oil" is intoxicated with raping the consumer. Developing new product gives
them greater staying power.When will Congress say "enough?"
Regulatory measures could foster greater competition among the companies.It puzzles me that gas prices rise within pennies of each other among
the various suppliers. Why can't one brand break ranks and govern itself
independently of other companies?
Are you saying man is not capable of polluting the earth just because it's here
for man to use?. You should see my neighbors back yard. It's his to use and it's
a pig stye. Man can do the same thing with the earh. We are on the very brink of
technology to make oil almost obsolete. Why are we resisting to push forward
with it. Electric cars could be in every drive way if we really wanted.
You want to conserve and get away from fossil fuels, fine, buy a horse and a
cart and leave the rest of us alone. You're living in a dream world if you
think there is something in the foreseeable future that is better than oil. If
it existed, greedy corporations would already be selling it. Why is this issue
all or nothing? Why cant we drill and develop domestically as well as invest in
alternatives? To Bombadil: I dont find it ironic our Senators did this show.
I, as well as thousands of other Utahans, have been hounding them relentlessly
about this issue. Unlike some Republicans, these two are listening to their
constituents and trying something. A check from big oil is no different than
Pelosi getting checks from the various environmental lobbyists out there. If
it's legal, I could care less, they're just playing the game we've allowed to
I have asked this question before with no response. I want a liberal or a
Democrat to tell me at what point you will say drill now, drill here.Is it 10 dollars per gallon when you can no longer afford to go to the grocery
store and when you pay 5 bucks for 6 m&m's in a bag or $20 bucks for a half
gallon of ice cream. And those ugly deserts are no longer looked at because no
one can aford to visit the barron desert that no one uses anyways. What is your breaking point? I read an article that estimates that 67%
believe we should start drilling in ANWR and off the coast NOW.If
you say that we should not drill at any cost and that THEY should find
alternatives. Let me ask you who THEY are. It is not the government. The
private sector always comes up with the ideas and then the government jumps on
it. Democrats and liberals always think the government has all the answers. I
like Obamas last idea. Lets change the presidential seal. WOW. What an
when is Congress going to get serious about the monopoly and price fixing (both
highly illegal) that are going on in the oil industry?And make no mistake,
you can thank American oil companies for the price at the pump. These greedymonopolies are filling their pockets with your hard-earned dollars.Ever
since the invention of the internal combustion engine, there have been
inventions of less oil- dependent fuels and higher efficiency models of cars,
which have been bought out by these same American oil companies and car
manufacturers, for the express purpose of blocking their development and use in
the general market.Now big oil wants to grind beautiful Utah into dust.Do you think you're going to pay less for fuel because it comes from Utah?
Think again.There are so many ways to get around the use of oil!There are new alternatives every day!It isn't the so-called liberals who
are causing the problem. You can look to American oil companies and their
astronomical obscene profit taking if you want the cause of prices of everything
going up.They should be taking some if not most of that profit to develop
alternatives to oil.
with the guilt ridden left. But only when it comes to environmental issues.'I feel so bad that we are using the earths resources. We should just leave
them where their at, in the ground'. New flash, The earth is here for man to
use. The earth should not be worshiped like its God.
Since you are so against the democrat agenda, let me ask this of those of you
opposed to Government interaction. What about all of the landowners in Eastern
Utah who will not have a say if someone drills on their property. This isn't
just a public land issue, there are large amounts of shale on private land that
the land owners won't have a say in how it's used because of split-estate
leases. Really, get your info. correct before you just blame the left--it's not
about that--it's about oil companies wanting the power without regulation.
Folks are missing the point. Nobody finds it ironic that our intrepid senators
put on a dog and pony show touting a currently useless concept in order to calm
the sheep? We continue to spend hundreds of millions of dollars a month in a
country where gas is 1.25$/gal for the locals. Look at the current
housing/energy/credit as well as our standing in the world and see what their
stewardship has brought us. I'm sure our senators have already received a nice
campaign check from said oil companies they held hands with.
Wow we see the liberal agenda in action here. There is no real concern for the
hurt felt in our wallets over the outrageous oil prices, but concern over
FRAGILE ROCK ART? I'm a poor person and I can not afford to continue to pay
these oil prices. I try to keep my tires inflated properly, drive slow, and
drive less. I am doing what I can, but I can't afford to be a heartless liberal
that is concerned more over fragile rock art rather than the suffering
consumers. Many of us are on the brink of losing our homes because we can not
afford any thing anymore. Every little thing starts adding up. Lets see Questar
is going to increase rates about 22% this winter, property taxes are up, food
costs more, electrcity prices will go up very soon etc. So my income isn't going
up as fast as all these increasing costs. in short WE ARE SUFFERING! maybe if we
were all rich or without children we could afford to be a heartless liberal like
those concerned with Fragile Art work.
How many more years will be wasted on trying to squeeze oil from rock. Money
would be better spent on finding a solutions that doesn't require oil for
combustion. It is way past time to eliminate the stranglehold the oil producing
countries and the U.S. Oil companies have on us.
Yea, great idea! Let's just continue to tap whatever oil resources are available
at all costs, acting like $2/gallon gas is our God given right. Heaven forbid we
should actually focus on conservation and alternative energies. There is an
UNLIMITED supply of energy in the World, let's stop taking the easy way out and
find better ways to capture it. The longer we go after every last drop of oil,
the less incentive we will have to develop the technologies and infrastructure
for other, cleaner, and in the long run, cheaper forms of energy. Some Utahns
need to learn what it means to be a "wise steward."
From the State of the Union address in January 2006, from President Bush:"We have a serious problem: America is addicted to oil."And now, more
recently, he says:"Our nation must produce more oil."So to get rid
of an addiction, you feed it.Makes perfect sense to me!
To coin a phrase from environmentalists, "Do it for our Children". This fear
mongering mentality of, "it will destroy the environment or burning fuel is
evil" is just propaganda. Drilling for oil or developing oil shale or tar sands
is not evil. It should have been done years ago. I for one do not want to
return to the days of horse drawn wagons and no air conditioning. We have the
technology to do this in an environmentally safe and responsible way.
Government, do something and do it now so our children can benefit.
To "Quick Sand | 1:47 a.m." what this would bring us is time to develop
alternatives. I just read an article that Sandia Labs put out that they are
ready to test a process that would use the excess heat from a power plant and
the CO2 to make gasoline.There are alternatives, we just have to
decide on which one.
We still have some of the best scientific minds in the world (thus technologies)
and I have faith that we can overcome the obstacles of exploitation of our
resources and disposal of any hazardous waste byproducts. We have to take the
lead and develop, BUT we must ensure there is true, non-partisan oversight and
enforcement. True, many of the benefits may be years away, but we must set the
stage for our children's future and country's future independence.
Um, duh, the Nine Mile Canyon region doesn't have oil shale. Utah's shale
deposits are out near Vernal not down by Price. The reporter should pretend to
know what he's writing about.
Then we drill off of the coasts and up in Alaska.I can't believe the
short sidedness of the left.
We need to do everything in our power to get at the oil in oil shale, tar sands,
coal gasification, off shore, ANWR and anywhere else we can get energy. (Also
nuclear.) Our lives and security depend on it. What are we--SUICIDAL?The Democrats, who are controlled by the environmentalists, are so blinded by
their bias that they can't even use common sense.We need oil shale
and tar sands production NOW!
Uh, bad idea. We're gonna trash our beautiful state just to have thirty years of
dirty burning fuels. Then what?