Utah, Texas laws are similar; FLDS population isn't

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  • to all FLDS
    May 27, 2008 12:49 a.m.

    pay property tax(including back taxes) and stop taking welfare in colorado city and hildale, and i'll listen to what you have to say about the child bride issue.

  • Jonathan Wurst
    May 26, 2008 8:54 p.m.

    "No age too young? | 9:54 a.m. May 26, 2008
    "Voss said, adding that a teenager told investigators she believed there was "no age too young to be spiritually" united with a man."

    "I find this very disturbing. If a young girl sees no age as too young the FLDS need to be stopped, and taking all the children was the only option. Texas will have to prosecute the men and women who allow underage marriage. I am sure that CPS is giving the Supreme Court much more information than we have through the media."

    Jonathan: I'm sure it would bother most people since most people are completely IGNORANT of what the scriptures/Bible teaches on the subject. NO AGE has EVER been mentioned in the Bible. Therefore, just what "age" is too young? It is simple, marriage age, according to the Bible, is not a numerical figure, but the ONSET OF PUBERTY! Period.

    Does anyone here know at what age young men and women were allowed to be married in almost all of the States of the Union in the 1800's and the first half of the 1900's? 12 for young women, and 14 for young men.

  • Anonymous
    May 26, 2008 3:34 p.m.

    It's an interesting exercise to put oneself in the minds of CPS. CPS probably thinks everyone they come into contact with, not just FLDS, lies so why should they believe things like birth certificates.

    For instance, Dan Jessop has 45 half-siblings on the ranch so presto by the CPS sibling rule, all of those under 18 are eligible to be taken into custody. Then there is the matter of reassigning wives and whether teenagers are sisters or sister-wives. The only way CPS is going to be satisfied about anything in that realm is the paternity testing. It will be interesting to see what happens with that.

    I can say from family experience that having religiously closed-minded parents CAN make kids more vulnerable to the depravity of people who prey on kids like that. The problem is NOT necessarily the religion; other people of faith have a different perspective and DO learn coping or other skills to protect them. I have VERY serious concerns about abuse dynamics in this community. I also want to see more information about the circumstance under which CPS has obtained their evidence.

    HOWEVER, I DO NOT think CPS custody is an improvement over the YFZ ranch.

  • No age too young?
    May 26, 2008 9:54 a.m.

    "Voss said, adding that a teenager told investigators she believed there was "no age too young to be spiritually" united with a man."

    I find this very disturbing. If a young girl sees no age as too young the FLDS need to be stopped, and taking all the children was the only option. Texas will have to prosecute the men and women who allow underage marriage. I am sure that CPS is giving the Supreme Court much more information than we have through the media.

    Does this quote bother anyone else?

  • Constitution
    May 26, 2008 9:21 a.m.

    Amendment #1 of the Constitution of The United States: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

    What right do you have to tell these people how they can worship God?

  • Ray
    May 26, 2008 5:30 a.m.

    When the custody hearing for Dan Jessop's baby boy starts again Tuesday morning, I'd love to see Dan's lawyer bring a Ouija board into the courtroom, and put up his Ouija board against CPS's Ouija board.

    I mean, if that is not how CPS is getting its view of the future, then what are they doing? How is anthing CPS can do, better at predicting the baby's future out 40 years from now?

    Let's see the CPS Ouija board vs. Dan's Ouija board!

  • Interloper
    May 26, 2008 2:36 a.m.

    The appeals court that decided in favor of the FLDS consists of three ulltraconservatives. Their decision was poorly reasoned and did not give enough deference to the trial court. I am hoping the Texas Supreme Court is less politically biased and will reach a result that prevents most of the children being returned to the secretive confines of YFZ Ranch.

    It is important that the courts not ignore the FLDS' raison d'etre is polygamy. Absent the belief that polygamy brings exhaltation to men, the mistreatment of children and women the FLDS is involved in would not be occuring.

  • Re: Reality Check
    May 25, 2008 10:40 p.m.

    Yes Mr. Reality Check I would send my daughter to the Texas Compound. I would let them know she not to be married until she is 18 and is free to marry any one of her choice.

    Better with the FLDS than with the public schools system, or in foster homes. The Foster homes that
    most of these children are in are 100 times more
    abusive than the FLDS could ever be.

    I grew up in foster homes. Most every body that
    is supportive of the CPS has overlooked the foster home issue. The Foster homes produce teenage pregnancy at 3 X the FLDS. Drug abuse is rampant with some foster parents being the dealers useing the children as pushers (yes it's true) check out the CPS case files.

    So I guess you would rather have the State raise your children huh?

    The FLDS are much better parents than any foster home would be.

    I am sure the FLDS people realize that if they were to contenue with underage marriages and forced marriages they would be guilty of crimes.

    Till now however where is the proof that a crime has been committed.

    Wake up Texas and let them free.

  • Stewart
    May 25, 2008 7:24 p.m.

    Another bold statement by you.

    These are not drug dealers.

    Enforceing the laws is what the CPS should have done rather than run them over like a bulldozer.

    There is not one bit of evidence that any girl boy or
    animal was abused sexual or otherwise.

    It's your mind working overtime to justify an opinion
    that is out of touch with reality.

    The reality is these peole have committed no crime.
    If they had why are they not charged?

    The FLDS although they may have some issues to deal with have a very clean lifestyle, no tv, alcohol home schooling. How does that compare with the inner cities?.

    The FLDS are living there beliefs, are you ?

    Child sexual abuse does exist and has been around forever, it is not right. You may want to check out your own family for this aspect.

    Why does the FLDS issue bring out the stupid in the
    supporters of the CPS over common sense and fundmental rights that have been overlooked by
    the CPS.

    The Catholic child abuse issues seem to be much more widspread and we do not see all the children being
    stolen away.

  • Stewart
    May 25, 2008 5:20 p.m.

    Just because you can't catch all of the drug dealers is no reason for not enforcing the laws. Just because you can't stop all of the child abusers FLDS or not, is no reason for not enforcing the laws. The only difference here is that if you throw a little religion into the mix, child sexual abuse seems to be permitted (constitutional).

  • Doug Forbes
    May 25, 2008 5:09 p.m.

    "every adult man and woman in a plural marriage was committing a second-degree felony for which they can go to prison for 20 years"


    Whatever the law says about bigamy, there are no effective laws against polyamorous relationships in Texas or any other state and if there were and they were in forces, most of the population would be criminalized.

  • unconvinced
    May 25, 2008 4:40 p.m.

    So if this is why Shurtleff hasn't acted against 10,000 polygamist what is the reason he hasn't acted against any?
    Does Utah not have the resources to protect even one polygamy abuse victim?

    May 25, 2008 12:23 p.m.














  • gal50
    May 25, 2008 11:53 a.m.

    In examining the math of this problem, the smaller problem in Texas is landed upon 24 million citizens whereas the larger problem in Utah is landed upon 2.6 million people, which is why the federal government may need to devote resources to handling this problem in Utah.

    These facts may give Shurtleff a practical explanation for not enforcing the law, but it has to be determined whether the law can and should be enforced. If so, it should be done now rather than later, because this population is increasing faster than the norm and the mess will only get larger and more out of hand.

    Everyone agrees that the Texas compound was a result of Utah occasionally enforcing the law. The walls and the guards were created so that no one could get information that would allow the state to go after those who practiced illegal activity, namely statutory rape and polygamy.

    As is now coming to light, there are a lot more polygamists than rapists. The bishop's list seemed to show that every mature family, save maybe one, practiced polygamy. The remaining families were too young. Most girls had not be subjected to statutory rape.

  • realitycheck
    May 25, 2008 11:17 a.m.

    so if you two first posters are so convinced that everything is fine on that ranch, let me ask you...

    would you send your 13 yr old daughter there for the summer? if not, you are hypocrites.

    Texas did what any concerned parent would do - they pulled the kids until they could figure out what was going on. Otherwise every one of those children would be in Colorado City or Hilldale by now. You know it and I know it.

    FLDS would have swooped those kids out as soon as Texas turned their backs. Don't you think these kids deserve every right to protection?

  • Exactly!
    May 25, 2008 8:14 a.m.

    That's exactly it, Thomas. Any other crime, as Texas considers it, would not have been handled this way. They are violating the rights of due process, that are supposed to be aloud to everyone, regardless of their crime and religion or race, etc. And the whole community is NOT one household. The charges should be handled one family at a time, just like with ANY OTHER CRIME.

  • Thomas
    May 25, 2008 4:04 a.m.

    People should not be distracted by the issue of polygamy. The most shocking part about this case was the lack of due procees. CPS made broad accustions about the whole group and ignored invidual differences. Five girls who appeared to be underage was insufficient to allow a mass round-up of kids. Individual parents and children were not allowed their day in court.