The statement from the university that set off warning flags in my mind was when
she was told she needed to change her beliefs.The university may be
able to advise a student to reconsider how they approach or handle a problem,
but I seriously question their right to tell someone they need to change what
they believe in or what personal values they have.
This is an example of why I contribute regularly to the Alliance Defense Fund
and will continue to do so.
The way I read this article, She did her part to recuse herself from the
situation and the 'thought police' couldn't let it go. I'm glad she won the
appeal. I think a lot of people go into counselling because of the love they
learn through their religious beliefs, and for a school to insist that beliefs
MUST be one way leaves me cold. Counsellors can specialize in the
sort of treatment they offer, I don't see why a discerning school official
couldn't see this situation in much the same way.
What if she were an airline pilot flying a man to his wedding...to another man?
An apartment owner renting an apartment to two men who intended to cohabitate, a
mattress sales person selling a bed to two men who wanted to have sex on it...Or
what if a couple is working on issues about practicing plural marriage in
heaven, can counselor opt out? Or what if a doctor has to take a bullet out of a
child molester? Isn't professionalism about putting your personal stuff aside
and doing your job? It is appropriate for the school to teach professionalism.
Sounds like someone in the administration at that university took something
personal and has an ax to grind. In the counseling field, people
get referred to other counselors all the time. It happens every day. It happens
before the first visit, after the first visit, and it can happen after years of
visits. Besides, who would want to be counseled by a non-expert anyway
(meaning, in this case, if you want counseling about homosexual behavior, you
should ask an expert in homosexual behavior or at least a student that plans on
becoming an expert on that topic). It is clear the student was not and would
never be an expert on that topic because she didn't want to be.This
is still America. We have a choice. There isn't a dictator regime telling
people, you will be a farmer, you will be a gymnast, you will be a homosexual
behavior counselor, and you will be a tax collector.
Ah ranchhand,obvious to whom? just because YOU don't see it....you don't even have the intellectual integrity to admit you intentionally take
potshots and evidence intolerance when you're called out for it.And
please explain how this women used her deep felt religious beliefs to trample on
the rights of another. If anything, she did him a favor by referring him to
someone more sympathetic. Now if she had tried to turn him straight, you could
make that accusation, but in this case you cannot. All you can do is showcase
@Lost;What is intolerant about stating the obvious? Religion IS
superstition. It doesn't matter if its the Shaman, Prophet, Pope, Bishop, or
any other type of "holy man" - they're all basing their belief on the
unknown/unknowable; hence, superstition.Like I said, it doesn't
bother me that someone believes in the supernatural, that's their business. I
do care when they start using their superstitious beliefs to infringe on the
rights of others, that's all.
ranchhandsuperstition?Once again your tolerance shines
through, bright and clear
I agree with Just Another Guy -- how was giving a man advice about his problems
"affirming" homosexuality? Would she be affirming homosexuality if she
gave him directions to a gas station? She's a therapist, and perhaps there are
details we're missing, but it seems like she ought to be able to listen to him
and help him figure out a way to have more positive relationships regardless of
his orientation. I mean, what if she were counseling a straight
person, but her personal opinion was that the straight person should divorce the
spouse? It's entirely possible to keep your opinions to yourself and give people
the help they ask for. When I worked for a doctor, we had a patient who would
constantly come in for treatment. She smoked, had a horrible diet, and engaged
in other unhealthy behavior that I won't get into. The doctor still treated her
diabetes, though I'm sure he wanted to tell her to not come back until she got
her life in order and stopped wasting his time. Why? Because doctors help people
even if they won't help themselves. I don't think this woman is going to make a
great therapist if she can't make that distinction.
Good for her standing up for her beliefs, yet cared enough to remove herself
from the situation instead of faking it. Freedom is a two way street while the
person seeking counseling is free to choose from countless counselors, the
counselor is free to choose whom he/she counsels. For the school to use one size
fit all logic is extremely wrong.
OK, so I don't particularly condone homosexuality. I understand that it was
really in the best interest of the client for her to pass his case on. But, she
still could have counseled him. She could have counseled him about how
relationships work. She still could have listened to him. She could have
counseled him with compassion and understanding as the Lord would do. A
christian loves his neighbor and helps his neighbor. She did not have to condone
his behavior as a homosexual but she still could have counseled him. She could
have even gone on to help him find the root of his behavioral problems so that
he could overcome his errors. A counselor is not a judge. She has missed the
fundamental principal of counseling.
I am a therapist and while I am not Christian or share this women's views of
homosexuality in anyway it does sound like she acted appropriately for the
situation. I agree with Chris Digan she should carefully consider where she
chooses to work following her schooling and should continue to refer those that
she comes into contact with that come to her that want to address similar type
This is a very encoraging development. I go to Eastern Michigan University and
the claims of the faculty that this was needed to avoid a postion that could be
seen as discriminatory are not based in fact. We are constantly bombarded with
pro-LGBT propaganda all over campus. Anyone who could have interpreted giving
this student freedom as anything other than granting freedom is clearly out of
touch with reality.
Hilarious to hear that Jimmer actually got chewed out for calling for the ball
in practice. He's in rookie point guard hell. Those first 12 games or so he
looked like someone had told him he was going to get beat up after the game if
he made any shots. When Thornton heals up and Jimmer (1 of two team players on
the whole team) heads back to the bench they'll have to start building chemistry
all over again. Thornton is the most stone-faced, 1 on 5 I'm-gonna-get-mine
player on the team. Unfortunately he knows how to put the ball in the hoop
pretty well. Smart's got a lot of work cut out for him.
As a licensed therapist, I am glad she won her appeal. Every therapist should
have the right to "refer" any counselee they cannot, for whatever
personal reason, provide counseling for. She will need to give serious thought,
however, to what type of counseling venue she'll operate within once she
graduates and gets licensed. She may want to work for a clinic/organization
that does not send clients she'd need to refer on. Given her religious
background, I'd recommend pastoral counseling to her a specialization, so she
can avoid further turmoil in this regard.
@sara and whitney Do you think you could actaully even attempt to
try to hide your clear bias in this story? you state several things as fact are
either blatantly wrong or purely your opinion. Can you at least try to be me
discrete with your bias next time?
i think it is great she isn't compromising her beliefs and values. i would want
a counselor who is honest of what they think and wouldn't lie by saying i think
it is great you are homosexual just because their liberal school said to think
that at the office. when they really do not think that.if someone wants a pro
gay stance in a counselor i am sure they can find one that agrees with their
@Maudine; I agree. It does seem that she tried to get someone else
who COULD counsel this man to take the case. If I were in the position needing
counseling I would prefer someone who wasn't going to use superstition to give
me the counsel.
"Shortly before the client arrived, Ward contacted her supervisor and asked
to transfer him because of a values conflict an acceptable option within the
profession and her supervisor agreed."Seems reasonable. Now if
she were the ONLY one there then it'd be more of a problem.
Yet a few days later, Ward was called in for a review and told that unless she
could "see the error of her ways" and change her "belief
system," she would have to leave the program And how is this
not establishment of a state religion?Iman,so disagreeing with
something is hate? really???
I agree that this counselor should have the option of handing this patient off
to someone else.Now, if homosexual issues were a large percentage of
the caseloads, that would be a different story.People on both sides
of this issue look to make a stand and in doing so, go to unreasonable
lengths.This should have been a non issue
This article gives a lot more information than previous articles on this case
have given.It is totally within her job description to request the
patient be seen by a different counselor - there are many reasons such a request
may be made and not being able to appropriately help or counsel a client is one
of them.Based on the information in this article, I would disagree
with the school - they did act inappropriately and she should not have been
kicked out of the program.
Words and music from Afterglow:I look around and see what I've been
givenAnd I think about the ones beforewho gave their lives and died
for the cause. I think about this blessed Restoration,and the
truth that's come from heavenwith the pow'r to change the lives of this
world.Here we are in a time of revelation,with the answers we
can give the worldto the questions of just why they are here. Who are we to dismiss this charge to others?It's a sacred obligationand a priv'lege to be helping the Lord(chorus)Find the power
that you have in your heart.There's a stone rolling forward; it's the
nation of God.For the battle is raging, and the armor is strong.The
enemy is losing. Which side are you on?Take a stand with the author
of salvationAnd choose your destinationby rememb'ring where it is
you belong.Move ahead with a strong determination.Giving heed
to the direction,and obeying the commands of the Lord.
This is good news. There is an extremist element that can't tolerate non-PC
views and this is a barrier to them. I also recall that another universty in
the area, the University of Toledo, fired a black woman who wrote in a newspaper
editorial that she objected that civil rights and gay rights are being treated
as if they are the same. The woman is also suing the university.I
hope that this makes them think that they can't discriminate against people
because of their religious or cultural views.
"Counselors do not condone or engage in discrimination based on age,
culture, disability, ethnicity, race, religion/spirituality..." So why was
she dismissed then? Oh, wait...I don't see anything on that list that says
counselors do not condone or engage in hypocrisy...that must be how the got
This whole profession is dysfunctional. It's as if Jesus were to come to earth
and not be able to tell people the truth because he needs to accept all of the
dysfunction without applying the remedy.
"Obama closed 880 Chrysler dealerships and only one was a Democrat donor
(he gave to Hillary)."New headline "Obama hates Republican
Chrysler Auto Dealers" In breaking news today, it was
determined that Obama used only political affiliation as a criteria in
determining which Chrysler Dealerships to close. Where do you come
up with this stuff? Who would actually go looking?Is this the kind
of information the "lamestream media" fails to report?too
Virgil @9:19 p.m. - you are absolutely correct. When the shoe is on the other
foot, the story is completely different. Hypocrisy at its most basic, and yet
they are blind to it.
"Counselors do not condone or engage in discrimination based on age,
culture, disability, ethnicity, race, religion/spirituality, gender, gender
identity, sexual orientation, marital status/partnership, language preference,
socioeconomic status or any basis proscribed by law..."So the
university discriminated against a Christian student for not violating her
religion...New York attempted to require every medical doctor to
perform an abortion during their residency.California attempted to make it
an ethics violation to oppose same sex marriage.Now they are attempting to
for Christian students out of Counseling programs.A University of Utah
drama student failed a class because she would not take the Lord's name in vain,
as specified in a script.Give the left time, they will force people
of faith out of every profession that pays well.Obama closed 880
Chrysler dealerships and only one was a Democrat donor (he gave to Hillary).These clowns are waging economic war on Christians.
"This case is about what is in the best interest of a person who is in need
of counseling"Yeah, right. So, if a gay counselor is
uncomfortable affirming the beliefs of a homophobic person and refers them to
another counselor, they will be treated the same way, right?