Requiring an ID would cleanse a soiled American voting system

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  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 28, 2012 11:56 p.m.

    Why is everything about liberals with you guys L White?

    I wish just once I could get through a comment thread without people thinking they have proven something by saying "liberals".
    I'll say this for you guys, you have been well trained.

    But as far as having to show my ID at a polling place it doesn't really bother me either, I have ID. and I would imagine most everyone in Springville has ID also.

    I do imagine it would bother people, maybe, in areas where not everyone has ID. Someplaces people just don't drive cars. I would imagine not everyone would have drivers licenses like they do here.

    And what about absentee ballots? How do you show ID for an absentee ballot?

  • L White Springville, UT
    Jan. 28, 2012 3:18 p.m.

    My goodness, there certainly are a lot of people who disagree with Utah's law that requires positive I.D. before anyone can vote. I have been voting for decades. I personally know the election judges and they know me. I still had to show my driver's license.

    That did not bother me. Why does it bother liberals?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Jan. 28, 2012 12:43 a.m.

    What is the system for removing the deceased from voter roles? I have no idea if I'm still on the voter role in another state where I lived.
    Why don't they just make voter IDs when they come to vote? Then they have a picture ID for next time. As Spring Street pointed out, it is not easy or cheap for some people to come up with the "proper" documents.

    Bottom line is, the Bush Justice Dept focused on prosecuting voter fraud and even went so far as to fire their own appointed attorneys for failure to find prosecutable cases. The Republican Party is merely looking for ways to suppress potential Democratic voters.

    The bigger threat to legal elections are electronic voter machines.

    As for the yokels who posed as dead people and tried to get ballots. Well, they could face federal criminal charges

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 8:20 p.m.

    Richards, I thought you were a strict constitutionist. No matter how hard I look I can find nowhere in the Constitution where it requires ID of any kind to vote. So, at least in federal elections, it would seem that your argument does not agree with the Constitution.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 6:35 p.m.

    I think that the people who say that freedom isnât free are those business types that thing everything in this world should be the private property and available to other people only if they have the price.

    Freedom was supposed to be in the package that we got when we joined this club, America. It only becomes a commodity when unscrupulous businessmen try to take it from us.

    The real reason that so many have died to keep our freedom is because foreign businessmen. just like our own, wish to take our freedom.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 6:17 p.m.

    When an article starts out with a lie, I just know that itâs downhill from there. Although you can probably find someone of every kind who will say everything imaginable, the conservative thing of including every enemy of theirs in their insult is not good. Especially when it is the liberal side of humanity that tends1o elevate people.

    It is the shame of America that in the 200 or so years of existence we have not progressed in the promised justice and freedom for all with regard to electing our government. While America grew in many ways, the minority who control our government has grown smaller and smaller.

    As a liberal American I think the reason for the problem is the handicaps and roadblocks put up by that minority to preventing voting be ordinary people. And while there is an abundance of criminal types on both side of the aisle the drive to keep the other side from voting is strong.

    And itâs all done for money.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 4:34 p.m.

    People like Mike Richards should look at the DPS website for documentation required for a DL or ID. IT's similar (if not identical) to documentation for a passport. I believe this is a federal mandate. Between that and the cost, which can be difficult for many, especially for minorities and the poor. Get out of your bubble and learn the realities of the world.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Jan. 27, 2012 4:30 p.m.

    To all those who favor voter ID: If you favor making the change, then the burden of proof is directly on you. You need to show that there IS a problem with voter fraud. Murdock's offerings are thin gruel in that he talks about what's possible, but not whether it's actually happening. You also need to show that your proposed solution solves the problem. Voter fraud is already illegal, so your plan should beyond throwing people in jail.
    Beyond these two requirements, it would also be nice if we had some assurance that the voter registration office in this new setup wouldn't be located at the other end of the county in an office that's never open, run by a guy who's never there, who uses a camera that never works. Lacking that, your proposal, however patriotic or sincere, deserves to be rejected.

  • Mc West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 1:23 p.m.

    It really doesn't matter what the motivation may be to require voters to show that they are who they say they are. It is law that only citizens have the right to vote. It makes sense to require ID. In this day and age you can't trust everyone to be honest. The requirement suports the law that it is based on.

    What may be the motivation of those who are against requiring ID? Do they really believe that the reason someone doesn't have a birth certificate or drivers license is because they can't afford it? Who can get by today without any ID? It is absolutely essential! If someone really doesn't have it this law will be a blessing, making it easier for them to get an ID. If one really cares about the poor or minorities you should be for this law to help them function better in our society.

    The only logical reason to be against this law is if it will curtail your intention to commit voter fraud.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 12:50 p.m.

    re: Mark B,

    Do you deny the FACT that the 1960 election was won by Richard Nixon, and not JFK, and that only because Richard Nixon valued the Country above the Presidency, that he ALLOWED JFK to claim victory?

    Do your own research and then tell us that EACH vote should not count.

    There has been extensive voter fraud in elections. No party is exempt, but the majority of the fraud has happened on the Democrat side.

    If we want the PEOPLE to decide the outcome of elections and not the precinct captains, then we have to require that rules are enforced, the primary being that ONLY citizens who are qualified to vote actually cast a ballot.]

    If you think differently, then make your case.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Jan. 27, 2012 12:24 p.m.

    Murdock, Mike R. and JCS would like us to believe that there's a massive assault on the polls by illegal aliens and scheming Democrats, and that someone who looks like he might be named 'Gomez" would try to vote in the name of "Halvorsen".

    What they won't say is that changing demographics do not favor Republican candidates. Rather than widen the party's appeal, they have narrowed it, and must make up the difference by finding ways to reduce voter registration and turnout. It's happening in one state after another, all with GOP backing.

    What they also don't mention is that, once ensconced in a system of ID granting, that there are a hundred ways to manipulate the system to open the door wide for certain groups
    while shutting it to others, particularly those who "look" like Democrats. JCS, in particular, seems to feel that the only proper, educated vote out there is his own.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 27, 2012 12:20 p.m.

    spring street,

    Are you a citizen who believes in law and order, or are you someone who believes in something else?

    What citizen would allow a non-citizen the right to vote?

    Where I came from, a birth certificate was issued when a child was born. It did not cost the child anything. Yet, you're trying to tell us that someone who lost or misplaced that birth certificate should not have to pay to have that certificate replaced.

    Where is "responsibility" in America?

    Are you just another of the LBJ Democrats who votes in alphabetical order in your precinct? Are you just another of the Daley Democrats who threw the election in Chicago to JFK?

    Or, are you an American who stands for JUSTICE for all and requires that citizenship has certain responsibilities?

    OUR COUNTRYMEN bled and died so that YOU and I could vote. You demean their sacrifice by allowing non-citizens to vote.

    You put the price of an ADDITIONAL birth certificate above the price of those who died to make us free.

    I find your version of "freedom" contemptible. There is a price that EACH of us must pay to remain free. Birth certificates notwithstanding.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 11:53 a.m.

    @ Mike: Are you willing to sacrifice your right to vote for $50?

    $50 is not going to prevent voter fraud - it is merely going to prevent those who have a right to vote from exercising that right.

    Those who have no right to vote and desire to do it anyway, are more than capable and willing of spending much more than $50 to cast their vote.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 27, 2012 11:05 a.m.

    re: Spring Street,

    What value do you place on "freedom". As an AMERICAN, are you going to let some illegal alien vote because of $50?

    What price has been paid by those who gave their LIVES so that you could complain that properly identifying yourself was reasonable?

    If there is anything petty in politics it is your argument that UNDOCUMENTED voters should have a voice in choosing who is elected.

    There is a price to pay for freedom. If you are unwilling to verify that those who vote are legal citizens who have the RIGHT to vote, then what other compromises are you willing to make? What other responsibilities are you willing to overlook? What MINIMUM requirements would YOU require before allowing NON-CITIZENS to vote?

  • Mc West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 10:51 a.m.

    Serving as an election worker in our precinct for years I often saw names of deceased voters still listed even after I had marked them as deceased previously. I also saw my son's name on there years after he had moved to another state. Because I had lived there for years I knew most people who came in to vote and would have realized it if someone tried to vote in the name of one of those deceased people, but most poll workers wouldn't be aware.

    Without picture ID required we invite voter fraud. It is ridiculous not to require it. I was glad to see UT make that requirement.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 10:48 a.m.

    @ Mike: A birth certificate costs $18 per the Utah Department of Health website. A driver's license costs $25 if you are under 65, $13 if you are over. To get a driver's license you need your birth certificate, social security card, and two proofs of residency which can include bank statements, vehicle registrations or titles, utility bills (but not cell phone), lease or mortgage contract, major credit card statement, school transcript, or property tax notice. Driver's licenses must be obtained or renewed in person.

    An identification card is $18, $13 for a person with a disability. The same documentation is needed.

    There are a great many people - usually older or handicapped - for whom it is extremely difficult to get the needed documentation for an identity card and then get to the Department of Public Safety to get the card.

    And even when all that is said and done, there is no way to guarantee that identity theft has not occurred or that the documents have not been faked.

    Requiring photo id does nothing to solve the issue - it is just a feel good measure designed to give a false sense of security.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 9:50 a.m.

    There were missing ballots in Iowa so we don't know who actually came first. First it was Santorum and we found an irregularity and Romney was really first. Then they said no, Santorum was first but ballots are missing. So how do they distribute the delegates correctly? Tell me someone I want to know.

    How do you prove you're an American citizen? I suppose it's different in different jurisdictions, but there are millions of fake ID's out there, illegally securing people jobs, presumably with SS numbers taken from people of another state. It seems at first blush that there is a ton of scope for voter fraud.

    What about the election judges? My wife, who has been an election judge, believes that a "voter registration card" in her opinion and in her district could easily be faked, not everyone is asked for jother ID, not all ID is or can be validated as genuine. Election judges need to be people of integrity but may not always be so, and some can be careless, or otherwise lacking in efficiency.

    I think we can do better and must do better. There is too much at stake, and the matter is urgent.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 27, 2012 9:41 a.m.

    As Americans, we have a responsibility to each other to NOT vote illegally.

    Documentation hard to get? For whom? It costs less than $10 to get a certified birth certificate.

    In Utah, all that is required is a valid Utah State Driver's License OR a current valid identification card issued by the State of Utah OR a currently valid license to carry a concealed weapon, issued by the State of Utah, OR a valid US Passport, OR a valid Tribal ID card, OR two utility bills showing name and address, OR bank statement, OR a number of other NO COST alternatives.

    Voting is a right for CITIZENS. It is not a right for illegal aliens. It is not a right for those convicted of felonies.

    In an ordered society, proof is required before authorization is given. ANY US citizen can easily show proof of citizenship.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 9:05 a.m.

    Vote fraud is way overrated. But if you want ID, makes sure people can get ID easily and without cost. Right now, an official ID is not easy to get. Many people, particularly the poor, don't even have access to some of the required documentation. And then there are the fees. For those in middle class America who don't see or deal with these issues, you may not get it. It's kind of like the abortion issue. Conservatives don't want abortions (and no one really does), but they they fight any contraception, sex education or other measures to minimize unwanted pregnancies. If you want to fight a problem, allow the cure.

  • my slc Newport Beach, CA
    Jan. 27, 2012 8:58 a.m.

    Speaking of the Iowa Caucus: Isn't this where the Iowa Republicans "lost" 8 precinct ballots and could not verify the winner of the caucus?

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Jan. 27, 2012 8:13 a.m.

    JCS, this prevents the left from having multiple voters vote multiple times in return for leftist kickbacks...huh? The left wing has thrived on a system of voter fraud..that truly is one of the most ridiculous things you've ever said.

    If you looked close at the article it pretty clearly shows that the name has to be on the roll in the first place so only recently deceased names would be available for use. That percentage of the overall voting population would be so small that it would be impossible for a party to "thrive" on such fraud. Even in the most conservative of states that are trying to implement these rules alledged voter fraud in in the tens..not the tens of thousands the tens..actual voter fraud prosecutions are 1 to 10. How does one thrive on that?

  • John Charity Spring Back Home in Davis County, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 5:43 a.m.

    This article is exactly right that the left wing has thrived on a system of voter fraud for far too long. It is time to put an end to this shameful practice.

    Requiring voters to show identification is the most common sense requirement imaginable. It prevents the left from having multiple voters vote multiple times in return for leftist kickbacks. In the past, these kickbacks consisted of government contracts that required no real labor, now, they consist of entitlement programs.

    Of course, requiring ID is not enough. We must have voters who are educated and informed about the issues. That is the only way to stop the left from turning this Country into just another European-style welfare state.