Mike Noel is an interesting case study. He is retired from the Bureau of Land
Management. He is a State Representative. And he's the president of the Kane
County Water Conservancy District, which is funded by local, State and Federal
tax monies. All told, he makes about $180,000 per year from his
various government incomes.At the same time he is a rabid opponent
To be fair the Hatch Act ought to extend to all of those that make their living
from the public trough: public schools, universities, medical, farmers, defense
contractors, Social Security, the list is endless. The problem would be,if it
were to be fair, that only a few would be qualified for public office.
Except, ALL politician are bound by both their State Constitution and the US
Constitution. Not just the President. Presidental primary runners buying
strawpoll voting tickets and giving them out to voters that attend their
straw-party is what other then buying votes? Who contributes to a Super-Pac
without the Pac nominie answering to their interest? It's buying the canidate,
instead of the voter. I find it logical to blame a single digit approval rating
of Congress as the problem rather then a President yet to be convicted of
viotating the Constitution. Reagan wasn't trialed for High Treason for
Iran/Contra because he was innocent, but because of lack of documentation.Each to their own though, I just don't see your saint of a President in the
field of republican hopefulls. BTW, I'm not Dem or Rep. I just vote for the best
I see in the race at that time. Your glass half full, I'm half empty :)
Reaver,People tend to judge others by how they perceive life. It
looks to me like Mrs. White was able to read between the lines to see the trap
that you thought you were setting for her. Some people, like Mrs. White, have a
noble character. You may think that no politician has high morals, but I think
just the opposite is true. Good people enter politics, not to serve themselves,
but to make a difference for good. SOME of them get lost along the way. We have only one President at a time. Mr. Obama is the only President
residing in the White House. He is the only one currently charged with
upholding the Constitution. He is the only one who is currently accountable to
the people who have limited his duties to those that THEY enumerated for him in
the Constitution.Regardless of what he wants to do, he is bound by
that document to do only those things that we ALLOW him to do. Buying votes is
not one of the things that we allow him to do.
L White,Correct answer, but a bit malicious for me. I was wondering
if were going to answer with one was 20mil compaired to 500mil. Showing a price
for your political ideals. Commendable you didn't. But the morals you desire
have NEVER been shown in politics as of yet, not just lately. Though most follow
their political views as they do their religious views...blindly. Bush was no
different, either Bush, nor Clinton, nor Reagan, and so on, and so on.I
like your idea, just not torward a single president.
Mr. Dark Reaver,You've made a very serious error if you think that I
support any corrupt politician. Mr. Hatch does not have my vote for
re-election. He wore out his welcome several terms ago; however, I would never
excuse his conduct because of the conduct of President Obama. Here in Utah, we
believe that eight-year-olds are old enough to know right from wrong. Both
President Obama and Senator Hatch crossed that milestone anniversary years ago.
Both are fully accountable for their actions.What saddens me is that
there are so many who use the excuse that somebody else did it first so they
seem to think that it is okay to do it again.That is not what we
stand for in America. We, the People, told the government that we would not
tolerate misbehavior, but it seems like some of you are willing to tolerate
President Obama's misbehavior.When the morals of Americans decline
as much as the morals of the politicians, maybe we do not deserve to be a free
people. Maybe what Ether wrote was more true than we know.
Thanks Utah Dem. I for got to include all public school teachers and university
professors as well as administrative staffs.
L White,Odd you didn't mention O Hatch doing the exact same thing
with his own little bankrupt energy company in Utah. But then, it's ok if it's a
politician you support eh?
Mr. George,Please cite for the rest of us where President Obama got
the Constitutional authority to take the assets of two car companies and then
distribute those assets to a foreign government and to his union friends. The
5th Amendment guarantees due process. There was none.Tell us where
President Obama got the Constitutional authority to force us to buy anything for
our personal welfare, whether that product is health insurance or whether it is
tooth-paste.Tell us where President Obama got the Constitutional
authority to NOT prosecute illegal aliens, after he took an oath of office to
uphold the Constitution. For that matter, tell us where he has the
Constitutional authority to tell the attorney general to ignore ANY law or to
sell firearms to Mexican bandits on the border. Just where did President Obama
get the authority to give $500 million dollars from the public treasury to his
friends in a bankrupt solar energy plant?There you have it, the
beginning of a very long list.
@ L White: So, enlighten us. Please list one instance of Obama throwing the
Constitution out the window.
When I was a little girl in the 50's I remember listening to my grandparents and
my parents "talk" politics. One of my grandmas was a FDR Democrat.
One of grandpas was a Eisenhower Republican. When anybody started talking
specifics about FDR to my grandma, she started swearing and calling names. She
refused to listen to any facts. She knew what she knew and the facts were not
important.Now sixty years later the President has changed but the
media and some posters are acting just like my grandma. They know what they
know and facts do not matter. They refuse to admit that President Obama has
thrown the Constitution out the window and is winging it from the golf course.
They blame President Bush for all of President Obama's mistakes. Then they tell
everyone who brings up a fact to shut up and to leave the poor President
alone.We need a new Hatch Act to protect us from a lazy media and
from posters who only believe in free speech if they are the ones talking.It seems like only yesterday that my grandma had those same tantrums.
Esquire,Carl Hatch, a Democrat, saw how FDR was abusing his office
to "pay off" pubic officials. He saw how FDR was trying to stuff the
bench. He saw how FDR was paying off union leaders. He saw how FDR was using
his own brand of community organizers to mobilize the people. He saw how FDR
was suing wheat farmers for NOT charging the government price for their
wheat.He did something about it. He, a Democrat, had the courage to
stand up to a corrupt President. He, a Democrat, found a way to take away much
of the power and influence that FDR's dollars were buying.Today, we
have a President who will be spending a billion dollars on his re-election
campaign. We have a President who has spent almost $5 TRILLION for "public
works" a.k.a. "influence".Was Carl Hatch the only
Democrat honest enough to say that buying votes is corrupt? Was he the only
Democrat honest enough to tell us that influence peddling is corrupt?History has repeated itself. FDR and Obama are political twins. What's sad
is that you try to silence those who speak out against blatant corruption.
On the subject: Somebody mentioned school board elections as an
example of elections that were basically non-partisan. Technically they may be,
but they are one of the most crucial elections ever held in local communities.
There's a lot of talk about defending the interests of our children.
I'm for that, and so I think we need to know as much, or more, about school
board wannabes as candidates in other, often more high profile, elections. I'd
like to see a huge turnout of voters too, and intensive questioning and research
on all the candidates. Although school board candidates may not
claim party affiliation at elections, they do come with points of view that
certainly may translate to party agendas, and represent self interest. Much
depends on this.
I do have a question for the editorial staff - what makes you think the Ogden
community is outraged by the firing of Greiner? I'm not outraged and neither
are any of the people in my neighborhood. I have never been a supporter
of double-dippers - in law enforcement, education, fire departments or the
legislature - its just greed in my opinion. This issue should have been
resolved five years and $1 million ago.
Utahshelkgame - please explain your comment "Why are educators, who also
receive Federal and State funding, allowed to sit in our state, and not violate
the Hatch Act?"
Now that they have fulfilled the requirements of the Hatch Act by firing
Greiner, now they can re-hire him with no entanglements. Ogden ought to refuse
any federal funds for their police from now on.
I agree with the police department, no one should be required to obey a law they
personally don't agree with or find "stupid". If that's their policy,
it's good enough for me.
@ Mike Richards, the Hatch Act has nothing to do really with Obama. Lay off and
stop bringing Obama into every issue that you comment on. Good grief!
@ Brother Chuck Schroeder | 11:25 a.m.,The "(Carl) Hatch
Act" became law in 1939 (when current Utah Senator Orrin Hatch was five
years old).Senator Carl Hatch was a Democrat who feared the
influence peddling of the FDR administration.From Wikipedia:"The Act was sponsored by Senator Carl Hatch following disclosures
that WPA officials were in fact using their positions to win votes for the
Democratic Party, just as many had alleged. Hatch, himself a Democrat, saw this
as outright corruption which should not be tolerated under any circumstance by
either political party, a feeling shared by most of his colleagues in the
Senate."Wouldn't it be nice if today's Democrats had the same
spine as Carl Hatch to speak out against a corrupt administration? (Before you
Democrats hold your breath and turn purple, you can return the favor after the
new Republican President is elected in November 2012 - at which time we can all
exhale and admit that the problem has been solved.)
Across the nation, there is evidence that people are increasingly using the Utah
Sen. Hatch Act as a convenient way to wield a sledge hammer against political
enemies that won't cave into their Koch Brother's and
ReaganBushClintonBush-villes economics, along with GOP deregulated for kickbacks
for the Koch Brothers and Grover Norquist, in their "Field Of Dreams,"
(of corn and sugar cane), with corruption, "crony capitalism," it's
time to vote them all out of Office come 2012.
Joeblow,Haven't you ever read Mike Richards' blasts against Mr.
Bennett, Mr. Hatch, and Mr. Chaffetz? At least he is not playing partisan
politics. It looks to me that he calls 'em the way he sees 'em.-----Have those who want the Hatch Act repealed, studied the
"Daley Machine" in Chicago or "William 'Boss' Tweed's Tammany
Hall"?Have those who want the Hatch Act repealed looked at Mr.
Hatch's statements about all the "business" he has brought to Utah
during his multiple terms as Senator.Is it a Senator's job to
"milk" the public treasury for his home State? Is it a
Representative's job to see that public money is spent on his constituents? Is
it a police chief's duty to accept funds from Washington? What benefit did the
people of Nevada get from his department receiving funds from the public
treasury? How about Mississippi or the people of any other State? Why didn't
the police department refuse to accept funds from Washington?That is
why we have the Hatch Act. It protects the people from influence buying. No money = no strings.
Let's amend the Hatch act to include Union members. That way any union or union
member that works for a company that receives federal funding can't run for
office either. That would disqalify all Federal employees that belong to a
union, all postal workers, GM workers, Chrysler workers, Boeing employees,
Lockheed Martin, GE, etc, etc, etc. You think my idea isn't sound? What's good
for the goose is good for the gander.This is nothing more than a
political persicution by the left against a conservative republican.
"...mean-spirited, self-serving and unwilling to work with anyone that
disagrees with him. He talks out of both sides of his mouth. HIs irresponsible
behavior makes a mockery...".Resume for successful candidate in
Utah's new congressional district?
The Hatch Act needs to Stay! This issues only point to a greater need. Get rid of the Good Ol' Boy system. Why are Educators who also
receive Federal and State funding allowed to sit in our State, and not violate
the Hatch Act?Let's try having Ethics instead of excuses!
Mike Richards,Wouldn't it be nice if you complained as loudly when
the Republicans do exactly the same thing?
Supporters of the Hatch Act are way off base. It should be declared
unconstitutional.How is it different for a police chief to serve in
public office than, let's say, a doctor? Either can influence policy and
legislation. A doctor brings his experiences with him and could, if he is
unethical, influence legislation in favor of some aspect of the medical industry
that would benefit him personally.If we are to have a truly citizen
government, then we need to let our citizens participate - even the ones who
take a job we may not care for. This law is absolutely wrong-headed.
Esquire,Wouldn't it be nice if history never repeated itself and
that what we're seeing in our country today had never happened before?Wouldn't it be nice if every President actually upheld the Constitution as he
had taken an oath to do?Wouldn't it be nice if no President ever
preached class warfare, envy, and coveting as part of his re-election
campaign?Wouldn't it be nice if no President ever spend trillions
from public funds to payoff his community organizers, his union friends, his
friends in foreign lands (via loans to drill for oil AFTER he had closed off the
Gulf to domestic drilling)?Wouldn't it be nice if one morning the
President told the American people how very sorry he was for costing us millions
of jobs, for tanking our economy, for making us the laughing stock of the world,
for dissing the brave soldiers who keep us free?Wouldn't that be
nice?Well, it's not going to happen and I will not pull the covers
over my head and pretend that it is not happening.The Hatch Act was
written to prevent the very thing that is happening at the highest level of
While a review of the Hatch Act is certainly reasonable, I'm not sure I buy your
argument. A public employee, a police chief, serving in the state Senate, is a
problem in my mind. Utah should not be like New Jersey where it is widely
acceptable for people to serve in multiple government roles. Not only is it
wrong for double dipping and conflict of interest issues, these people lose
their perspective of who they are serving.As for Mike Richards,
please lay off Obama for 10 seconds. This issue has nothing to do with him and
tax policies for the wealthy. Your obsession is unbecoming.
As the editorial points out, the problem is how to manage political influence.
Especially the influence an officeholder might have over the funding that pays
his or her day job salary?As I understand the Hatch Act, running for
non-partisan office is fine. Non-partisan means no one runs as a Republican,
Democrat or representative of some other party. In states where I have lived,
school board elections have typically been non-partisan. But anything much above
that is generally between the competing parties.State elections
(especially at lower levels) may seem pretty "safe" in that they would
have little influence over federal funds. But what if the lower level
politician in question is considered a rising start in his or her party
(predicted to have far greater influence in the future or with party elders)?
Or, what if they are ostensibly a lower-level politician but wield a lot of
behind the scenes power? The questions then become harder.My view
is that more elections should be non-partisan. But that is a choice for local
folks to make as they structure their elections.
Let's not get caught up in who is running for office before applying the Hatch
Act. The PRINCIPLE behind the act is people in power tend to use every method
to stay in power. Case in point: Mr. Obama demanding that citizens get an
extended tax break even as he tells us that the wicked "rich guy"
should pay more taxes. If that doesn't show us why the Hatch Act is necessary,
then nothing will. Too bad that it doesn't apply on the Federal Level. NOBODY
would ever run for a second term.
Mike Noel is NOT representative of his district - he is mean-spirited,
self-serving and unwilling to work with anyone that disagrees with him. He
talks out of both sides of his mouth. HIs irresponsible behavior (read riding
on an ATV on a closed trail) makes a mockery of Utah elected officials. We need
a good moderate to run. Anyone listening?
Until we stop allowing businesses and unions to contribute to and lobby our
congress, nothing will substantially change.Everything else is
Actually the Hatch Act is spot on, and the state should extend that to those
receiving salaries or other compensation from public money other than federal
monies. The old saying is "where you sits determines how you stand"
and those receiving public funds from any source have built in bias that is
impossible to overcome. We should all be advocating stricter ethical standards
not a reduction in them.