Christians number 2 billion and growing worldwide

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  • ms Draper, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 6:13 p.m.

    Ahh, finally they must be counting the Mormon's amongst the Christians and thus the number of Christians are growing.

  • Ms.W South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 4:17 p.m.

    To non believers: Why should God's existence be proven? You would dismiss it as a hoax or magic, and still wouldn't believe. How many times did Jesus Christ, in the flesh, stand before multitudes of people, and they still did not believe He was the son of God?

    The idea that physical evidence of God will suddenly make you believers, is a joke.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Dec. 22, 2011 2:12 p.m.

    Here's the deal, folks: Religion, or the lack thereof, for the most part, boils down to early endoctrination of said religion. There are some who may "change" religions; and there are some, like myself - brought up Mormon - who do not believe at all because evolution makes more sense...to me. That does not make me right; it also does not make the religious - insert denomination here - right. I'm sure, Mountanman, that if you were born a few hundred years ago into a Native American family, your belief system would be much different from what it is today, because that is the belief system you would be taught. Doesn't make it right or wrong. So, if there is a God, how about we let God decide my fate, not those of you who believe you speak for God!

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Dec. 22, 2011 2:00 p.m.

    Ah, such a simple answer: "He hasn't told us yet." But we "know" He didn't come from nothing, yet somehow He is. Magical!

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 1:18 p.m.

    I sure wish the defenses of god offered repeatedly by believers were persuasive. It would be so fun to live in a universe ruled by an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent old, bearded man - just like it was fun to believe in Santa Claus as a child.

    Unfortunately, your arguments are so tired, thin, and ineffective as to be kind of sad, really.

    And yet you attack science and the progress that science has given us. It seems pretty simple to do a comparison:

    Your "faith" says the power of god can move mountains. Atomic energy has not only demonstrated the moving of mountains, but the obliteration of mountains.

    Your "faith" says god can heal sickness, but science has found cures for a long list of what were once fatal diseases. No consecrated oil, prayers, and fasting have a track record like science.

    Your faith pales in comparison to what mankind has accomplished with science despite religious totalitarianism, violence, prejudice, dispute, and waste.

    If there is to be salvation of the human race, it will not come from ghosts and spirits, it will come from science.

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 22, 2011 12:54 p.m.

    The Atheist | 11:31 a.m. Dec. 22, 2011
    Provo, UT
    "Then, explain if you can, how the divinely designed universe continues to try to destroy human beings - tsunamis, earthquakes, disease, etc. - seems obvious if there is a divine "Watchmaker", he was an incompetent or malicious one! "

    @The Atheist, I wish I had more room to try to explain. Those who do believe God (and I would argue there are many who believe in a God, but don't necessarily believe what He says), understand that our mortal life is just a blip in the radar. Whatever suffering we may be put thru allows us to learn many things -- and those learning experience vary from one person to another. We can chose to take advantage of the learning experiences or we can choose to wallow. It really doesn't matter how long we are here. We were promised a body. We were given a body. We may only have our mortal life for a short time. It is just a step in our overall eternal progression. I don't care if there is no scientific proof of any of this. For me, I know it is true as I do believe God.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 22, 2011 12:36 p.m.

    @ xscribe..Where did God come from? Well, all we know is that He didn't come from nothing! He hasn't told us yet the anwwer to that question. I am certain someday He will but until that time, we can either have faith or we can choose to believe other theories!
    To Quote Albert Einstein (who was an expert in physics), refering to the high but ever decaying levels of energy of matter, "who wound the watch"? Interesting question, one that according to his biography, convinced him of intelligent design!

  • Cynical Optimist SCOTTSBLUFF, NE
    Dec. 22, 2011 12:13 p.m.

    @ Mountanman | 11:02 a.m. Dec. 22, 2011
    ...I used to work with high explosives and I never saw, nor did I ever hear or read about an explosion organizing matter. Explosions always do just the opposite, they disorganize matter.

    first, I wonder how working with high explosives indicates the inner workings of the universe. I doubt you worked with hydrogen and the other elemental building blocks of the Universe in the past, but rather with compounds designed to destroy not build. Second, with your past experience it may have appeared to "disorganize" but did you wait around 13.7 Billion years (or even 10 years) to study what the side effects of those explosions delivered. the elements of the universe did not coalesce immediately but have continued for eons nor has it finished. I absolutely believe in God and recognize that He has at His command the secrets of the Universe and his method used "could" have been "The Big Bang" but our understanding of this is obviously not total and again 13.7 Billion years after the fact.

    Lastly, How did an article on religious demographics turn into a point/counterpoint on creationism?

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 12:03 p.m.

    @ the Atheist

    Interesting that you put your faith in the "clear" evidence of an expanding universe.

    In the 80's, we were certain that the expansion of the universe was slowing down, and that we were in an infinite loop of expansion, slow down, retraction, explosion, expansion, etc.

    Now we are certain it is speeding up in its expansion (which by the way, decreases the odds of life creating itself by almost infinity, even if you believe that's possible).

    Makes me wonder what we'll be certain of 30 years from now. Just sayin.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Dec. 22, 2011 11:57 a.m.

    Apparently those who believe in Big Bang are irrational, yet those who believe there is some being - who, by the way, would also have had to come "from nothing" - are rational. This is my biggest argument with religion: I'm right, you're wrong, period. There is no proof either way, yet I just don't see that many nonbelievers out there knocking door to door trying to get people "not to believe." But, hey, apparently working with high explosives makes you an expert in physics and matter!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 22, 2011 11:56 a.m.

    @ The Atheist. "Worlds without number have I created and my works never cease"... God to Moses. That explains the expansion of the universe.

    Suffering comes from the misuse of agency..freedom to choose sometimes impacts others negatively. Suffering is temporary but if we endure it well,it will give us experience and be for our benefit--God to Joseph Smith.
    Death is part of the plan of salvation. Everthing that lives will die! No death; no eternal life. Perhaps 100 years from now when we are both dead, our persective of death and suffering will be very different than it is today! I hope that helps answer your questions. Merry Christmas!

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 11:31 a.m.

    Mountainman,

    Your weak "argument from design" is not persuasive.

    And since you believe in the divine order in the universe, please tell us how you explain the clear evidence that the universe is expanding, and also the clear evidence of entropy.

    Then, explain if you can, how the divinely designed universe continues to try to destroy human beings - tsunamis, earthquakes, disease, etc. - seems obvious if there is a divine "Watchmaker", he was an incompetent or malicious one!

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 11:18 a.m.

    Atheists are prideful?

    What is prideful about admitting that you do NOT know there is a god?

    What is prideful about refusing to pretend to "spiritual gifts" the way religionists do to appear righteous and "chosen of God"?

    What is prideful about being honest and rational about life?

    And most important, why do believers continue to try to SHAME others into belief, "joining", and conformity?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 22, 2011 11:02 a.m.

    @ m.g Scott..Most atheists point to the so called "big bang" theory to explain how everything was created. I used to work with high explosives and I never saw, nor did I ever hear or read about an explosion organizing matter. Explosions always do just the opposite, they disorganize matter. I may take a pile of lumber, some metal and blow it up with explosives forever but I will never get a computer, an automobile or a universe as a result! The big bang theory is very, very difficult to believe for a rational mind! But what else to they have to lean their idea's on?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 10:58 a.m.

    @SammyB
    "Most LDS people do not share the gospel out of arrogance, but out of love and conviction. "

    Right, my point was merely to suggest that some Christians can be succeptible to being prideful and thinking they know all the answers, just as some atheists are capable of doing so as Sir Robin noted. It was not my intention to try and condemn Christians.

    Personally I don't have all the answers, or at least I have no idea if my individual beliefs/answers (that are definitely christian but don't realy match up with any denomination) are actually correct.

    @VST
    What is the scientific definition of a theory?

    @m.g. scott
    "Where did all of the matter in the universe come from? By your belief system you'd have to say that something can come from nothing"

    Well I'm going to answer this two ways. First, my personal answer is God. You can believe in evolution and believe in God. Evolution doesn't disprove God, it would only disprove a literal interpretation of Genesis 1-2. Second, belief system? How about "I don't know."; is that not a valid response? Evolutionists don't have to believe something came from nothing.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 10:47 a.m.

    @Cats
    "Stating the fullness of the truth that has been revealed and established by the Saviour of the world is not prideful"

    It could be, depending on how you go about it. My point was merely that Sir Robin implied that atheists think they have it all figured out and can act prideful and I think religious people can be just as prideful.

    @SammyB
    "and one told the group that he knew this place and could show them a path that led to a live-saving oasis, would they say to him, "you are prideful for thinking you know a way to water"?"

    I don't think that scenario fully applies. That would require the person to know they have the right path, for sure... 100%. I think a lot of people in a lot of religions and denominations think they have that yet surely they can't all be right. So it's a bit more like one person in the group being pretty darn sure that the life-saving oasis is this way but without all the evidence for it because you have to take it on faith.

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 22, 2011 10:45 a.m.

    m.g. scott | 10:41 a.m. Dec. 22, 2011
    LAYTON, UT
    "To RanchHand and any other evolutionists. Answer this question. Where did all of the matter in the universe come from? By your belief system you'd have to say that something can come from nothing. You have to be living by faith as much as any religious person does to believe that. Agree? "

    @m.g.scott, I am not an evolutionist. I am faithful LDS. But the silliness in your argument is that someone could ask you right back "Where did God come from"? There are no answers to either of these positions.

  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 10:41 a.m.

    To RanchHand and any other evolutionists. Answer this question. Where did all of the matter in the universe come from? By your belief system you'd have to say that something can come from nothing. You have to be living by faith as much as any religious person does to believe that. Agree?

  • Ms Molli Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 22, 2011 10:33 a.m.

    RanchHand | 9:46 a.m. Dec. 22, 2011
    Huntsville, UT
    "@Cats;
    It isn't courageous, it's annoying. Not to mention "I am accountable for stating it and you are accountable for hearing it." is definitely arrogant and prideful"

    Well said RanchHand ... AS IF God is going to hold someone accountable to "hearing" the gospel on an internet comment board. Oh my heck that is the best I've heard yet!

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 9:46 a.m.

    @Mountanman;

    There's more evidence for this theory than your belief that some omnipotent being created it all. And more and more evidence keeps coming forth.

    Intelligent design feasible? Not so much really. It certainly is NOT proof enough.

    @Cats;
    It isn't courageous, it's annoying. Not to mention "I am accountable for stating it and you are accountable for hearing it." is definitely arrogant and prideful.

  • Whos Life RU Living? Ogden, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    It is couragous of people who explore the philosophies of the world and thoroughly educate themselves with facts without limitation. I guarantee there are several people who have limitations on their education, but do not realize it.

    To Cats,
    "I am accountable for stating it and you are accountable for hearing it."

    Thanks Cats, please put another star under your name.

  • SammyB Provo, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 8:55 a.m.

    ATL 134

    I believe that Christ Himself felt confident that He understood the truth. Surely, His apostles also had that faith and conviction. There is quite a difference between faith and pride.

    Often I have reflected on this argument and have an analogy. If a group of people were lost in a desert and dying of thirst, and one told the group that he knew this place and could show them a path that led to a live-saving oasis, would they say to him, "you are prideful for thinking you know a way to water"?

    Perhaps they would not listen or follow, and that is their choice. But if he sincerely believes he knows how to get to the true water of life (Christ), then how cruel if he does not follow the strict command of Jesus just before His ascension. He said His disciples were to go into all the world, preaching His gospel. Each person who believes those words can chose to share his/her testimony of the Lord as they believe Christ taught. Most LDS people do not share the gospel out of arrogance, but out of love and conviction.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 22, 2011 8:23 a.m.

    @ ranchHand. Do you have proof that your ancestors decended from trees? Or is it just a belief on your part? It seems belief (faith)is required no matter what! You have faith you decended from apes, the rest of us have faith in something much, much larger! As we look at the magnificent order and beauty of creation, isn't it much more feasible that there is intelligent design in it all? Isn't that proof enough? What more proof would convince you?

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 7:47 a.m.

    Dear atl34: Stating the fullness of the truth that has been revealed and established by the Saviour of the world is not prideful--it is courageous. I am accountable for stating it and you are accountable for hearing it.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Dec. 22, 2011 7:12 a.m.

    This just points out that people are as superstitious today as they were when our primal ancestors first descended from the trees and attempted to walk upright.

    Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. They all provide some benefit, yes (as Larry Lawton points out), but they have also been known to be the source of much tragedy on this planet.

    Either way, it is still nothing more than belief with no proof.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    Dec. 21, 2011 11:23 p.m.

    Noodlekaboodle | 5:58 p.m. Dec. 21, 2011
    Salt Lake City, UT
    "Did anyone else notice that the places with the greatest growth in christianity are the poorest least educated places in the world....... Just sayin."

    Pretty similar to 2000 years ago, too.

  • MoJules Florissant, MO
    Dec. 21, 2011 10:27 p.m.

    Cool, this article said that Mormon's are Christians, guess when they want to get more numbers they will count us. Is there a double standard as to when we count and when we don't?

  • Larry Lawton Wan Chai, Hong Kong
    Dec. 21, 2011 8:14 p.m.

    @ Noodlekaboodle: Yes, Christianity has succeeded best among the poor -- I'd say among the humble. Few come to Zion who are content in Babylon. My family's experience might be typical. Why "Mormon" missionaries would waste their time on the "wrong side of the tracks" cannot be justified if wealth is a criterion. But they did, and we embraced the faith. I am old enough to remember the difference that made in our home. While too many of my cousins dealt with alcoholism, broken families and poor economic prospects, my sibs and I were blessed with a religious background and the resulting stable family life. In turn, we enjoyed successful marriages, were educated for the professions, and passed the faith on to most of our children and grandchildren. Even if viewed through the narrow prism of economic success, religion was the turning point for our family

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 21, 2011 8:04 p.m.

    @patriot
    "bad news for liberals!!!! "

    1. As a liberal Christian myself I don't see why this would be bad news.
    2. The gains (relative to the population of a nation) are primarily in nations that are not America so that really wouldn't affect US politics.

    @Brave Sir Robin
    One could just as easily say that those who claim their denomination is the authority on truth are people who think they've got it all figured out (in other words, people who are full of pride).

  • [email protected] SMITHFIELD, UT
    Dec. 21, 2011 7:35 p.m.

    As the numbers grow, we pray for peace on earth good will towards all.

  • Ms Molli Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 21, 2011 7:03 p.m.

    What is the rate of growth compared to non-Christians? The overall numbers sounds high, but it almost looks like the non-Christian group is growing at a higher rate than the Christian group is, compared to the overall world population.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Dec. 21, 2011 6:51 p.m.

    @Noodlekaboodle

    Yep, I did notice that. Could it be because the poorest places have the most humble people? In wealthy nations, you tend to get more people that think they've got it all figured out (in other words, people who are full of pride).

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 21, 2011 6:28 p.m.

    I don't think Christ would recognise his philosophies in people who claim to be his followers today.

  • Noodlekaboodle Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 21, 2011 5:58 p.m.

    Did anyone else notice that the places with the greatest growth in christianity are the poorest least educated places in the world....... Just sayin.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Dec. 21, 2011 5:48 p.m.

    Why is that bad news for liberals?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 21, 2011 4:40 p.m.

    "Christians now number more than 2 billion around the world"

    oh no - bad news for liberals!!!!