Vai's View: Vai's View: The BYU experience

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  • byu rugby Crystal Lake, IL
    Dec. 14, 2011 12:12 p.m.

    "melsuperstar" Salary of the educators has nothing to do with the quality of education. I live in the far northwest suburbs of Chicago. The school system is a mess fiscally. The teachers unions are wreakin havoc on school budgets. I know from first hand experience that your son's situation had more to do with how class credit is awarded in each state, rather than the quality of the system.

    That being said, it is a good thing that Utahns don't get preferential admissions to the Y. The church would be ultimately stronger if more Utahns left the state for a decade or so.

  • JonnyDanger HOUSTON, TX
    Dec. 13, 2011 8:26 p.m.

    Interesting debate.

    I grew up outside of Utah, attended undergrad at BYU and am now in graduate school in Texas. Currently I teach seminary in my stake here and have the opportunity to fill out recommendations for those students applying to BYU. I echo the point above about how much these kids have to sacrifice and how hard it is to stand out from the crowd. I think you appreciate that BYU experience a little more when it is different than what you grew up with-I know I did.

    That being said, this past year my sister-in-law (from southern Utah) went through the application process... She was a valedictorian, 4.0 GPA, honors and AP classes all the way, incredibly hard worker, active in clubs and sports teams, etc but was very disappointed to not receive any scholarship offer from BYU despite several full-ride offers from other institutions. Is that a Utah bias? I don't know. I do know that she struggled on her ACT, which was probably the determining factor.

    In my opinion they can't let enough kids in. The more the merrier. Or perhaps the more the marry-er :)

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 13, 2011 4:06 p.m.


    You realize that all of your "you realize" statements are just your opinion don't you? Have you had a child go through the admissions process at BYU recently? If not then how is it that you 'know' so much about it?

    But just for your info, and it has been stated multiple times on here so I'm not sure how you missed it, but kids from utah county do have a disadvantage in the admissions process. Whether that is called a point against them for being from Utah county or else a point is added to kids from outside it is still the same, they have a disadvantage because of it.

    BYU's admissions people readily admit this and will tell you that if you simply ask.

    Now as I said before my Daughter is at BYU-Idaho having a great experience and getting a great education so the only drawback for us is that it costs more to send her out of state rather than have her just live at home and we also don't get to see her and miss her. We aren't bitter about it. But it is a reality so why pretend otherwise?

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Dec. 13, 2011 11:03 a.m.

    From BYU's own website:

    Admission rate 2011: 62.7%

    Percentage from US: 93%

    Percentage from outside US: 6%

    Average GPA of accepted applicants: 3.82

    I list these stats to make sure that any further discussions on this string (I know that I am late to the table) are based in fact rather than myth.

    My take on things:

    I wouldn't call a school that offers admittance to nearly two-thirds of its applicants "hard to get into."

    I attended BYU on an academic scholarship before attending medical school at Utah. I enjoyed attending BYU, but didn't like all of "the BYU experience."

    I grew up in the Intermountain West, in a LDS-dominated community. My time in Provo was just more of the same. But for my wife, who grew up on the East Coast, the BYU experience was more satisfying.

    I believe the success of BYU's graduates is due more to the quality of the applicants that they admit than to what happens during the student's time on campus. Those 3.8 GPA students would have excelled no matter where they attended college.

    I'm not pushing my kids toward BYU. If they choose BYU, I'm OK with that.

  • Woodworker Highland, UT
    Dec. 13, 2011 8:27 a.m.

    I enjoy your "openness" in your writing; it's probably akin to the mindset of a good punt returner-grab the ball and go for it. I've always enjoyed your articles, but I disagree on your giving advice to Jake Heaps to transfer before he had made his decision. I wish your advice had included the counsel to also consider that "enduring" a difficult time would also give this young man experiences that would strengthen himself and his marriage. You were right to say that his wife and marriage should come first, but would transferring really be the best thing? I don't know the ins and outs of college football for the players, what they actually experience, but does he really have a better chance of improving his skills by transferring? Each person' situation is different, as you have mentioned, but maybe there were still valuable lessons to be learned in Provo. Thank you for your fine articles.

  • happychaosx3 Waukesha, WI
    Dec. 12, 2011 10:31 p.m.

    And I agree with what others have said about Utah schools. They are SO much easier than schools in other parts of the country. This should be taken into account as well.

  • happychaosx3 BROOKFIELD, WI
    Dec. 12, 2011 10:20 p.m.

    For those of you Utah folks worried that your kids are being "dinged" in the admissions process, I would like you to think about what exactly it's like to be an LDS high school student in the Midwest. In my area, the kids from two wards meet at the church building for seminary. BEFORE SCHOOL. SIX am. And no, the church building is not just down the street. Most families drive about 20 minutes or so to get their kids there. Nobody lives close enough to each other to carpool, and the parents must usually just wait while the kids have seminary. This class of ten or twelve kids (combined from two wards) then go thier separate ways to the five or six highschools they attend.

    The kids want to be involved in extra-curricular activities so that they can be competitive in thier college applications, however they also want to keep the sabbath holy. Almost EVERY activity, school related and otherwise REQUIRE Sunday participation. School Musical- performance on Sunday. Cheer- competitions on Sunday. Band, orchestra, choir- Sunday practice and rehearsal. Sports- Same thing.

    These kids DESERVE a (small) break when applying to BYU!!! It's amazing what they sacrifice.

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    Dec. 12, 2011 1:09 p.m.

    It was hard to tell what point he was trying to make. He needs an editor.

    As for the difficulty of enrollment - I always question the "I got a 3.x GPA" story. How was that GPA calculated? You realize that BYU removes the weighting from honors classes, right? You realize that GPA is only a tiny thing in BYU's calculation? You realize that there is no Provo penalty, right? You realize there is no legacy weighting, right? BYU does look at GPA, but it's only about 20% of their criteria -- you're better off with a 3.5 in Calculus, Physics, and the like, than a 3.8 in easier classes. I think the problem in Utah is too many kids are taking release-time seminary, which puts them at a disadvantage against LDS students in other states who take it early-morning but then have the advantage of taking 4 harder classes...

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    Dec. 11, 2011 10:46 a.m.

    BYU is more than a university. As mentioned, students attend for more than just education. My youngest son was not admitted to BYU. I fought hard to get him into the school, but without success. He wound up attending a school in the midwest. Attending that school basically ruined his life. Had he attended BYU he probably would have an LDS family now and be well into his career. Instead, he was influenced by the secular environment at the school, failed to get his degree (until he was 37) and married outside the Church. His situation is heart breaking to my wife and I. I would like to see the school increase it's inrollment levels. I know BYU says it is not so, but I believe they give preference to those from Utah or those related to "good families" what ever that means. Let's hope that a solution can be found.

  • GoodGuyGary Houston, TX
    Dec. 11, 2011 10:35 a.m.

    Vai, as an international student and LDS graduated from BYU, I can tell you that BYU won't miss too much by not admitting these 2 Chinese students. There are simply just too many Chinese students in this country, as well as at BYU. When you talk about diveristy, there are enough students from all over the world at BYU already.

  • Noblepromise PROVO, UT
    Dec. 10, 2011 8:13 p.m.

    Vai's article is detailed and correct that per the LDS Church ownership,"The primary purpose of BYU is to provide a first-class education in the disciplines and skills that will qualify you for productive lives while at the same time inculcating within you a solid foundation of spiritual values." BYU football and basketball is fun to watch as an Y alumni and Cougar Club member, but I am more grateful for my education, my wife and my kid's education at the Y. As a fan I desire that BYU be able to play the best teams in the respective sports and hopefully win and in turn earn the respect of opposing teams, sports media and college pollsters.

    Vai and his dear wife are class individuals as I knew him as as Home Teaching companion in Wymount Terrace days (Quad 5). BYU is always espousal than any other university, because of its unique mission is different than any other University as church owned institution of higher learning. Thanks again for the reminder on BYU's true mission and purpose.

  • Denverite Centennial, CO
    Dec. 10, 2011 1:12 p.m.

    Some of parents' worries about admissions are overblown. 30 years ago, when Vai and I were at BYU, Pres. Packer gave a talk saying, "don't expect to automatically get into BYU any more. Times are changing." At that time, the official acceptance rate in Provo was 70%.

    When my daughter went to the local Be Smart fireside here last year, we were told by employees of all 3 campuses that Provo's acceptance rate is now 60%, Rexburg's is 97% and Hawaii's is 100%.

    So while it's certainly disappointing to not get into Provo if you really want to go there, 60% is still a far higher percentage than Harvard, Stanford and other big-name schools take of their first-time freshmen. And at 60% acceptance, they're guaranteed to be letting in some kids who are not 4.0 and all-everything.

    And it looks like the advice of others is correct; if you really want to go to Provo and don't get in as a first-semester freshman, just go to Rexburg or Hawaii, get high grades in classes that Provo will accept (checking on that in great detail beforehand), and transfer in after a semester or two.

  • Aloha Saint George Saint George, Utah
    Dec. 10, 2011 11:56 a.m.

    Thanks for the article. My youngest son was a candidate to play football at BYU. In head to head contests, he clearly beat out 'the offer' kids. Making a long story short- he wasn't offered. He recently accepted an 'full ride' offer to SUU in Cedar City, Utah. BYU offered a walk on status, but for as parents, we have persisted in having our children work and earn their education after high school.
    My oldest son has a full ride and plays football at Utah State in Logan. He recently got married in the temple, is getting straight A's, and is playing in his first bowl game. the team highlighted him in an article in the Hawaii paper about returned missionaries on their team, and that they're trying to build their returned missionary roster as it creates stability for their team.
    BYU is a great shool for many. However, for those who don't get the chance, they are still blessed. Remember, missionary work is the three fold mission of the church- how much missionary opportunities are there with 98% LDS monogamous campus??? Not to diss BYU, but a friend taught me, "There's no perfect marriage, there's no perfect school, but there is a perfect way."

  • Red Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 10, 2011 11:34 a.m.


    You are still the man! Great article.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Dec. 10, 2011 11:08 a.m.


    Good points!

    Sometimes it's worth taking the road less traveled to get to the same destination.

    Dec. 10, 2011 11:05 a.m.



  • Orem Parent Orem, UT
    Dec. 10, 2011 10:55 a.m.


    Point taken. My comment was just trying to show that Utah Co. in particular isn't penalized or rewarded when compared to other Western states. I mostly hear this from relatives in California who insist that kids in the Provo area have a much better chance of getting into BYU because they live close by but you hear the exact opposite from people living in Utah Co. as demonstrated by the comments.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Dec. 10, 2011 10:35 a.m.

    Great article Vai!

    With hard work and persistence, it is possible to have the BYU experience even without being a 4.0 student.

    Four of our children have already graduated from BYU and a fifth is currently a student at BYU; two started at BYU, the other three started at BYU-Idaho, finished an Associates degree there, then transferred to BYU. All five served LDS missions, a little surprising to us since we only have one son.

    Three of our daughters have had the unique experience of attending BYU, BYU-Idaho, and BYU-Hawaii.

    BYU isn't for everyone and it is much more difficult to be admitted, but for students who are persistent enough, it isn't as impossible to be admitted as some have suggested.

    For those who still fall a little short, UVU is another avenue for sharing the "BYU experience" without actually being a BYU student. That's the reason UVU will soon be the largest university in the State of Utah.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    Dec. 10, 2011 9:54 a.m.

    Orem Parent,

    A bonus point to one group is a penalty to another. It is the flip side of the same coin. As I stated in my previous comment, East Coast kids get a break, while Utah County kids have it a little tougher.

  • bribri86 Phoenix, AZ
    Dec. 10, 2011 8:36 a.m.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the tone of "Via's View" articles are subtly becoming more and more negative towards BYU. I wonder what his beef is.

  • Kwality.Nerd Orem, UT
    Dec. 10, 2011 8:20 a.m.

    I love Vai's balanced views and appreciate the DNews for recognizing the value his articles contribute to our reading experience.

  • Orem Parent Orem, UT
    Dec. 10, 2011 8:03 a.m.

    So many untruths in the comment section of this article.

    BYU is tough to get into period.

    Last year the AVERAGE gpa was 3.8 and avg. ACT score was 28.

    There is no penalty from being from Utah County. The admissions office looks at 3 things. GPA, ACT, and extracurricular including service. They work on a points system. You don't get penalized from being from Utah county in particular but you do get a bonus point if you live east of Colorado.

    You talk to people from California and they will tell you Utah County kids get in easier than they do. Talk to someone from Utah County and it is just the opposite.

    If you get in be extremely happy. You will get a great education and will be able to meet people from all over the world, literally. If you don't get accepted you can go to BYU-I. Great school just a lot colder during the winter and you will have to watch your BYU sports on ESPN.

  • hawkeyery IOWA CITY, IA
    Dec. 10, 2011 7:47 a.m.

    Living in the Midwest I wish more LDS kids would attend college out here instead of fleeing West. If everyone stayed, they would be a tremendous influence on the public universities in the area. There is definitely a stereotype that Mormons are quite insular and flock together to hide from the world. I went to BYU as an undergrad, but am glad I came out here for grad school.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Dec. 10, 2011 6:45 a.m.

    People who wonder how someone with a high GPA can get denied admission to any college, realize that colleges look at the classes taken.

    If you took 5 AP classes and have 3.6, that is usually better than taking 0 AP classes and having a 3.8.

    Also, comparing GPAs across high schools around the country is comparing apples to oranges. If you go to a high school with very intelligent people, you may get a 3.4. Had you gone to another high school with not as intelligent students, you may have received a 4.0.

    Standardized test scores should be more of a determining factor than GPA. This is the one thing that can be compared across all students.

  • Hatch Sandy, UT
    Dec. 10, 2011 5:18 a.m.

    Vai thanks for including the word lonely in your description of BYU. I graduated from both BYU (Bachelors) and Utah (Masters). There was alot of loneliness at BYU particularly for women.

    For this reason I did not push any of my daughters in that direction. Students at Utah and other "gentile" schools hear the liberal side of most arguments in class and on the campus and find the LDS institute to be a refuge from the storm.

    There are two things that students at BYU miss out on. One is the opportunity to gain greater tolerance for others. Two is to better understand how to make an impact in the world without becomming part of the world.

    My wife and I loved our time at BYU but it's certainly not the best place to find a spouse and get an education for everyone and BYU graduates are lacking in some areas that graduates from others schools are not.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    Dec. 10, 2011 4:13 a.m.

    I have to chuckle every time I read something in the Deseret News about how academically rigorous BYU is. It is rigorous, but certainly not any more than other universities around the country. I graduated from BYU and attended two other universities along the way. There was no discernible difference. As for the over all quality of education, I always thought it was fine, but in recent years I have been puzzled about their hiring decisions. I have personally known a professor who taught at very unremarkable college in an noncompetitive state university system who was out of nowhere hired on at BYU. I knew another professor who lost his job. Nobody wanted him, but BYU hired him. The one thing they had in common was that they were both serving as stake presidents at the time they were hired. Now, these were not average men, they were great guys with strong testimonies, but they were very average as professors. I have always been puzzled by this.

    Also, in response to Melesuperstar, What Duckhunter said regarding a handicap for Utah Valley students is not an opinion. It is a fact. BYU sets a higher admissions standard for Utah Valley kids. The thinking is that they have already had the "BYU experience" while they were growing up. East Coast kids get a bit of a break.

  • Cjhowes SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 10, 2011 3:05 a.m.

    Great comments on pressure and expectations. I think we need to cut Jake Heaps and anyone else some slack for personal choices. I had a great time at BYU and it prepared me well for life and career, but other places will serve others needs. Also if we think competition is tough at BYU, wait for bigger competition when you get out!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 10:48 p.m.


    Oh good grief *facepalm*. Do you need some cheese with that whine?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 10:32 p.m.


    My kids, including that daughter, attend what is rated the #1 hs in this state. It was not the quality of her school, or even the quality of Utah schools overall, it was specifically the points against her for being local. The admissions people told us that was the issue.

    Keep in mind one of my daughters friends is the grand daughter of a former president of BYU, and had very similar credentials as my daughter, and she to was not admitted to BYU. I don't think they are playing favorites, they have made a decision to make the admission requirments tougher for local students. If you want to contact the admissions office and verify it you can and they will tell you so.

  • Robbie512 PROVO, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 10:23 p.m.

    I haven't agreed with some of your articles in the past, but I think you did an excellent job on this one. Thank you!

  • sisucas San Bernardino, CA
    Dec. 9, 2011 9:56 p.m.

    BYU was very competitive in the sciences. I was amazed how hard it was to get good grades there. When I left BYU for medical school I took a step down in difficulty. All the BYU guys in my med school did very well, easily showing up students from other well-regarded universities. I think we all finished in at least the top third. This is what BYU is aiming for, not to educate the masses, but to compete at the highest levels of education and raise up the leaders of the future. When they work in that direction it may come across as elitist to some, but it's the reason that BYU is number one in producing dental students, number six for law and number 10 for PhD's and MD's. Unfortunately the statistically proven best predictor for high level academic success is the ACT/SAT, so kids with good GPA's get frustrated when BYU doesn't pick them up. My brothers and I all got into BYU from Utah county, but we all smoked the ACT.

  • tim_the_tool_man_taylor PROVO, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 9:52 p.m.

    Having worked in BYU's admission office for over two years, this article makes no sense. Vai implies that the reason the students did not get in was because they are non-members, yet he also explains how they were transfer students as well as international students. The requirements are completely different for international students. If they were struggling to speak English--this is a big deal! The TOEFL Exam score is weighted pretty heavily in determining if an international student is accepted. So it completely depends what their score was. Also, Vai, if you gave them their ecclesiastical endorsement, what did you say? That is also weighted pretty heavily--especially if they are a non-member. The fact is BYU Admissions does a holistic review. There are so many factors here that could have been the reason why they did not get in, and to blame it on the fact that they are non-members is ridiculous. The amount of members who apply to BYU is way way more than non-members who apply. Also, there definitely are non-members all over BYU's campus from students to professors alike. This is a poorly written and assumptive article.

    Dec. 9, 2011 9:02 p.m.

    @duckhunter, so cal reader

    Wow, it's amazing to me to read your pro-BYU comments on Vai Sikahema's article, touting how great it is that you guys had your daughters attend there (or want to attend there), etc. to enjoy the BYU experience with its intrinsic higher standards and values. Yet you come onto a Utah football article (like this edition of the Utes preparing for the Sun Bowl) and belittle the Utes and its fans, and act like anything but the fans of an institution that professes to follow a higher standard.

    I think, instead of a higher standard, you follow more of a double standard.

  • RE Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 7:55 p.m.

    My daughter with a 3.85 GPA with an associates degree, tough major, on scholarship from Snow College, and tons of extra curricular leadership activities, got rejected by BYU No wonder I keep seeing more and more Utah Flags and Less and Less BYU fans.

    Why can't BYU Provo adapt a model like BYU Idaho to educate more students? Why have they rejected this concept of using a three semester system Like BYUI?

    I love BYU and am a graduate of BYU but they have become very elitist and hold their noses up in the air at those who don't get the BYU education.

  • steeboo LOS ANGELES, CA
    Dec. 9, 2011 6:26 p.m.

    Please look at the facts, folks. BYU is a good school, but no more difficult to get into than any other top 100 school. In fact, it's easier--BYU's acceptance rate is many times higher than any "elite" school and much higher than most decent public schools. So stop complaining when BYU accepts well over half the applicants. If anything, BYU should raise its acceptance standards to exclude all those who are so narrow-minded that they think they can't succeed in any other environment. Some non-member kids don't have the chance to walk up to the school administrators and spew their testimonies in order to get accepted--and let's face it, we all know plenty of academically unqualified students who get into the school by claiming their lives have been changed through their mission experiences. In short, there are a lot of great options out there--no need to brainwash your kids to think the only place they will find balance is at BYU.

  • melsuperstar Tempe, AZ
    Dec. 9, 2011 6:11 p.m.

    Duckhunter, I don't think it's the fact that you live in Utah County but more that your daughter got a Utah education. My family moved from Illinois (where teachers have the 6th highest salary) to Utah (where teachers salary is 46th) while my younger brother was in high school, and he went from needing a full load of scholastic (meaning not elective) classes to graduate from his HS in IL, to only needing like a math and english and ceramics class and he could graduate a trimester early. 3.8 here doesn't equal 3.8 elsewhere.

  • McCougar Baltimore, MD
    Dec. 9, 2011 6:00 p.m.

    Vai - this was a very insightful article. I am an advocate for increasing "diversity" at BYU, including making the extremely difficult decisions to increase the non-LDS proportion as well as LDS students from overseas. I also strongly recommend, as someone with first hand knowledge and experience, other LDS options, including the great work going on at BYU Idaho, BYU Hawaii, and Southern Virginia University. Graduates of each of these institutions are consistently achieving outstanding results that parents, students, and yes, even Bishops and Stake Presidents are hoping to realize. One stat to bear in mind: when you have 80,000 (or so) kids graduating from high school in the US/Canada each year and have 5,000 "seats" available in Provo, it creates the pressures that Vai and others are describing in the admissions process. Throw the "rest of the world" into that equation and a desire to benefit those who are not LDS and you see the challenges being faced by students and parents.

  • So. Cal Reader San Diego, CA
    Dec. 9, 2011 5:50 p.m.

    Good article. I have three children whove enjoyed the BYU experience. One graduated and one is a freshman in Provo; and the third child will graduate from BYU-I in Dec. 2012. My only other comment to your article, Vai, is to include BYU-I as well in the "BYU Experience" discussion. My wife and I are very familiar with both schools & campuses. Candidly, we would put the spiritual experience of Rexburg above Provo, hands down. And I have yet to talk to other parents whove had children attend both campuses who didn't feel the same way as my wife and me. In fact, can I be so bold as to even say there's no comparison. My college experience was at San Diego State and University of Southern California, so I never personally experience the "BYU Experience", and I didnt have a desire to. Once our oldest started to attend Provo, I was quickly won over. I, too, am so grateful our three oldest children have wanted to and have been accepted to enjoy the BYU experience.

  • Mona Beaverton, OR
    Dec. 9, 2011 5:42 p.m.

    Duckhunter, I know it doesn't seem fair to you that a student from elsewhere might have precedence over a Utah county student. If a Utah County student and a student from Vermont or Bulgaria, or South Africa were equally qualified, I know which one I would like to see attend BYU. If a student has grown up as one of just a couple of LDS kids in their high school, or has never been able to attend General Conference, or did not have a seminary building within hundreds of miles, doesn't it seem "fair" to give them the BYU experience? No doubt there are difficult choices for the admissions committee.

  • Chris from Rose Park PROVO, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 5:40 p.m.

    I am also thankful for the 1.5% that are non-LDS that attend here at BYU. I have the privilege to learn along side many great students from around the world. Mostly, in engineering, I have worked with non-LDS people from India, Nepal, and one from Germany. The one from Germany has become one of my best friends.

    At the same time I want to say I am thankful for the other 98.5% of the students. I love all of the friends that I have gained here over the years. I am about to graduate and when I look back on the experience I am so glad I have had the opportunity here.

    I hope this is how everyone feels about where they go to school. Every place to get an education is a blessing. The majority of my buddies before college go to the U of U, LDSBC, or Utah State. Each of them are being able to have great experiences in gaining their educations. I think it's wonderful that we live in a world that prizes education.

    I guess the purpose of my post is just to express an overall gratitude that their are great educational opportunities in so many places. I suppose the world, in this way, is getting better.

  • loveless center valley, pa
    Dec. 9, 2011 5:27 p.m.

    Being a parent of four kids in the Allentown, Pa area, my wife and I have done everything we can to get our kids excited about going to BYU. It's not hard to understand why. First, the education is great. BYU offersthe best education for the price of any university in the country. Second, our four kids will have an opportunity to meet other LDS kids and hopefully, find someone of their faith to marry (yes, that's important for my wife and I). Tithing subsidizes the cost of attending BYU, and as a full tithe payer, I would be upset if one my kids (who was qualified) did not get accepted because of a desire to increase "diversity" by admitting more non-LDS students. The BYU experience is not just about obtaining an education. It's also about associating with other students who hopefully, share the same values that my wife and I have spent teaching our kids. It's about their future, their educations, their families. And hopefully all of this can be accomplished without causing me to become broke paying for it all (including the weddings)!!

  • bradleyc Layton, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 4:55 p.m.

    I love BYU football. It is an education in itself.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 4:50 p.m.

    I remember when Elder Oaks was made the President of BYU and once at a public meeting he talked about the issue of admissions in the realm of "not wanting BYU to be solely avilable to the 25,000 brightest kids in the Church." One thing that is considered is whether or not a person has available other opportunities such as a good local institute program. That's one reason students from Utah (the State, not the university) have a tough time because there are excellent programs at UVU, USU, U of U, SUU, Dixie, etc for spiritual development. My daughter was one of the few that has attended all 3 BYU schools.

    Back before electricity when I went to BYU, a returned missionary was always admitted and I had a few roommates taking remedial classes as thery barely graduated from high scjhool but they were teriffic missionaries who finally saw the light regarding personal effort in obtaining an education. I transferred from Snow College after serving and I think a true freshman at BYU could easily be intimidated. Student Singles Wards help a great deal with the transition to college life, especially for freshmen just away from home.

  • petersenjc47 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 9, 2011 4:45 p.m.

    My wife and I attended BYU. Then I spent 20 years in the U.S. Navy far from Utah. After retiring from the Navy we moved back to Provo so our kids could have the BYU experience but that was the time that standards were changing and although our kids were great students and participated in extra-curricular activities at Timpview High School they could not get into BYU. Thank goodness for Utah Valley University. We're disappointed that our kids missed the experience but they got a good education at UVU and we've all adjusted to the inevitable. We understand the higher purpose of the Trustees.

  • Serenity Now Highland, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 4:45 p.m.

    I've always heard it said that the BYU campus, part of the Provo Mission, is the highest baptizing mission in the world....can anyone confirm that? If so, it shows that the 1 and 1/2% get A LOT of attention...

  • Silver Aspen SOUTH JORDAN, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 4:38 p.m.

    BYU's library is awesome. I was not impressed, however, with the quality of the education I received during the summer I spent there a number of years ago. Perhaps the experience is different during the school year.

  • S Jersey Coug SEASIDE, CA
    Dec. 9, 2011 4:36 p.m.

    Thank goodness for the 1 1/2%. I attended BYU as a nonmember, was baptized, went on a mission, returned and received a graduate degree, and have since been married in the Temple. BYU and the Church changed my life. I am not alone.

  • DC Alexandria, VA
    Dec. 9, 2011 4:33 p.m.

    But can Bronco move football up to 2 or 3 at the very least?

  • Juice Box Eureka, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 4:29 p.m.

    Pretty good article. I'm a student at the U and it's tough as it is. I, personally, chose Utah over BYU for a few personal reasons. I am happy I did, I have found a balance of confidence and challenge while still being able to enjoy my college experience. I chose not to attend an environment so socially judgmental (I say this as it is, I'm not slamming BYU). I have been to both campuses, I prefer the environment at the U. Yes, I have considered BYU and probably would have been accepted, but I am a proud Ute and love my University. For those that love the environment at BYU and thrive in it, more power to you, go be the best student you can be. In the end, it probably doesn't matter to much which university you get a degree from. However- as a Ute, I am not a fan of the stereotype that "only good/faithful mormons go to BYU, because I'm as good and as faithful as they come. Good article, good perspective.

    My name is Juice Box, and I'm a Mormon. I'm also a Ute.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 4:29 p.m.

    Well it is certainly hard to get into now days. My daughter was not admitted despite having a 3.8 gpa, parents that attended, grandparents that attended, a grandmother who is a 30 year employee, and quite a few very nice extracurricular acheivements.

    The reason?

    She grew up in Utah County.

    Now fortunately she is at BYU-Idaho getting a similar experience but still local kids are actually docked points against their applications for being locals. It is now a disadvantage to live here in Utah, especially Utah County, for admission to BYU.

    But for those that are deserving and are not admitted they can attend BYU-Idaho or BYU-Hawaii and then transfer to BYU-Provo after a couple of semesters as long as they keep their grades up. It is much easier to transfer in after attending one of the other two BYU's.

    But I am not happy that the Board of Trustee's has decided non local kids should be given preference over locals. I know some of their justifications for doing it but I do not agree with them at all on it.

    Dec. 9, 2011 4:24 p.m.

    As always, Vai's comments are straight forward. You gotta like this guy's honesty.

  • Pawps Sandy, Utah
    Dec. 9, 2011 4:08 p.m.

    Via, I don't think they should even admit the 1 1/2%. tithing is the issue, we pay it according to obedience. Why even let the 1 1/2 % in when their are thousands of other well deserving LDS kids that miss out because of a non LDS star athlete?

    My argument is right in line with your quote you use from Pres. Hinkley. "the primary purpose of BYU is not football"

    Come on Via, your a Bishop, you even admit you wouldn't want your daughter bumped!

  • rogerdpack2 Orem, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 3:57 p.m.

    These are hard words about it not being about football. Wow BYU was hard in my way I can't imagine it getting harder...

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 3:55 p.m.

    so, college is a hard transition for incoming freshman, and some of them drop out.
    Do not think this is unique to BYU.
    Some kids go to several schools before they find the right fit.
    All of them are not criticized in national media for it.
    give the kid a break.
    There is more to life then football.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 9, 2011 3:53 p.m.

    Excellent article and spot on! There really is a higher standard of personal behavior expected at BYU compared with almost any other university as evidenced by the honor code. Bottom line: BYU is not for everyone! Regardless, there is always a long line of qualified people who would love to go to BYU that never get that opportunity!