GOP contenders argue on Afghanistan, Iran, torture

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  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Nov. 15, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    The elephant in the room that no one seems to notice is Israel. Do you really think the Jews are going to let Iran get a nuke that might be used against them? The leader of Iran Akma(whatever) has said that the destruction of Israel is on his "to do" list. Even if you an American don't believe him, could you take the chance if you were living in Israel? Question is, what will the U.S. position be regarding a strike on Iran by Israel? That's what the candidates should be asked.

  • The_Kaiser Holladay, UT
    Nov. 14, 2011 6:54 p.m.

    The only one speaking sense at the debate were Huntsman and Ron Paul!

    I find it absolutely disturbing how much Mormon culture supports war under any circumstance. These wars are not what Christianity calls a "just war." Never has a preemptive strike or preemptive war ever been justified! The Bible, Book of Mormon only speak of war when the enemies are at the gates and Iran isn't at the gates. Please understand this!

    "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God".

    There will always be wars that are never justified nor ethical, but desiring and pursuing peace in the midst of war will never be considered a vice.

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    Nov. 14, 2011 4:19 p.m.

    Even if Iran had a nuclear weapon, they have no missiles capable of reaching the United States.

    Even if Iran somehow got a missile that could reach the US... we have laser armed 747s designed specifically for shooting down high altitude missiles.

    Though I honestly believe Israel would step in and knock out Iran's nuclear program before they could build a weapon... Iran is a much larger threat to Israel than they are to the US.

  • bricha lehi, ut
    Nov. 14, 2011 2:07 p.m.

    I think we need to put the whole iran thing into perspective. What would it really mean if an enemy had a nuclear bomb and used it against the united states. If Iran were able to create nuclear weapons and actually bomb the US, the US would retaliate on such a scale that there would effectively be no Iran. We have enough nuclear power to obliderate any country that did something like this. These countries know this, and hopefully aren't stupid enough, for all our sakes, not to test us on it.

  • ksampow Farr West, Utah
    Nov. 14, 2011 8:50 a.m.

    Wake up, idealists. Remember the Iranian hostage crisis? That is the same crowd that is in charge in Iran. Don't pretend that we can have peace if Iran develops a nuclear weapon. Liberals who screamed so loudly about the U.S. nuclear weapons and nuclear energy programs seem to be OK with an irresponsible rogue nation developing them.

  • greenman108 Petaluma, CA
    Nov. 13, 2011 4:46 p.m.

    I would love to see some rational specific discussion on how to fix our problems here at home and not have the conversation hijacked by rushing to extremist views.

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 3:49 p.m.

    Go Newt! He is shredding Romney and Cain. I am proud of this guy.

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 2:58 p.m.

    I totally agree with Sergio. The GOP needs to just scrap most of the current candidates and try something different. I think Huntsman is rational, and I could vote for him. I like some aspects of Ron Paul, but don't really agree with his incredibly limited roll of the federal government. I don't think the Equal Rights Amendment would have happened because of the free market system.

    Most of these candidates are very big government in the areas they want. If you are going to be anti-choice, you are going to have to have a federal agent track every pregnancy--doesn't sound like small government there. Just think ladies, you could have Agent Smith attending your prenatal checkup with you.

    My personal favorite moment of the debate was the question would you use water boarding. That question roughly translated, is would you knowingly violate the Geneva Convention and international law and treaties? Michele Bachmann answered that question like she was ordering a BLT at a deli...Oh yes, we learned valuable information. WOW! I can earn valuable money by robbing a bank, but it isn't open for interpretation of law. I can't believe that was seriously discussed.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 13, 2011 2:52 p.m.

    I am really surprised by some of the comments here. They show a real lack of understanding of what has been going on. Led by the Bush administration in 2003/2004, there has been a concerted attempt at globalizing this issue. The Obama administration has continued that policy, expand it, and in fact is largely why Obama is over in China and Russia. With out these two other powers in sync, the global community can't do much to turn this around.

    The Iranian program has been slowed dramatically, with if you read the report the amount material year over year actually reducing. There have been lots of efforts both public and covert including espionage to slow down the program. One thing most who actually study the program do agree on is using military force will actually only prolong the current iranian policy makers run.... introducing Iranian nationalism into a situation where Iran has become increasingly isolated, and has had its own internal political problems.

    The answer to this isn't going to come in the form of a silly campaign talking point, and Romney should have known better. He is smarter than this...

  • freewill duchesne, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 1:37 p.m.

    I missed the debates last night, can anyone tell me if Ron Paul recieved more than 30 seconds out of the 90 minutes? And as usual, the media keeps him out of the spotlight, because he is the only candidate who has read the constitution. It sounds like to me that last nights debates were about torturing which does nothing but make more enemies.

  • David King Layton, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 10:54 a.m.

    "Not implying that you watch Fox, but there is a LOT of information out there that is not correct."

    I don't happen to watch Fox, but I think we're avoiding the bigger issue here. This is more than a red vs. blue, Republican vs. Obama fight. I'm kicking myself because my silly mistake enabled you to avoid the central point of my original post, which was that Ron Paul is a candidate dedicated to a Constitutional foreign policy. Ron Paul would not approve the assassination of an American citizen without a trial, as Obama has done in the case of Anwar al-Awlaki and his 16 year old son. This is a policy Mitt Romney and Barack Obama agree on, further proof that this is not simply a partisan fight.

    I appreciate your correction but I can only be held responsible for my own mistakes, not those of John Kyl, Bill O'Reilly, or birther nonsense. I think one of the biggest problems of this forum is we all engage in too much collectivist thinking. We judge individuals by the groups we perceive them to belong to, and not their individual merit.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 10:51 a.m.

    @ NeilT

    If Americans were smart (I wonder about that anymore), they would realize that law breaking by the President and Congress is the root of all of our ills. Paul, not Romney is the ONLY candidate that knows how to obey the law.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 9:49 a.m.

    This election (like the rest) is rigged!

    The moderators of the debate were kind enough to bless Ron Paul with 90 seconds of time. 90 SECONDS!!

    The fact that the press does not want to hear from Ron Paul is proof positive that he needs to be our next president.

    That is of course unless the people of America are good with uncontrollable war, constitutional erosion, endless debt and giving away our employment to foreign countries. If we really want to keep these policies in place, continue on shutting down Ron Paul down and vote for Obama, Romney, Perry, Cain, Gingrich and all of the other schmucks that are here to "change" America.

    Vote for the ones that have MSNBC'S permission to be elected.

  • shaun_ SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 9:42 a.m.

    If we go to war with Iran because we "think" they have a nuclear weapon then I am moving out of this country.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    Waterboarding is illegal and the US should have no part of it. Republicans need to stop the in-fighting and unite behind Romney. He is not perfect, just the most qualified.

  • Vince the boonies, mexico
    Nov. 13, 2011 9:14 a.m.

    These promises and lies the republican candidates are are saying that they will do are ridiculous! Anyone of middle age and older knows full well that a president as 1 man does nothing. It's the paid(under the table) old crony congessmen that pass all of these filthy laws favoring big business that run this country. Look where they have us now. And you people say you want a new president-RIDICULOUS. How about joining together as two parties and doing what is right for our country and the citizens, wouldn't that work? Run the crooked greedy congressmen now in office out, and cleaning up the graff, lying, cheating and stealing would be a good start. This country is a "complete" mess right now. Lets clean our houses voters!

  • RShackleford Saint George, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 9:13 a.m.

    Ron Paul has been Right for over 30 years. There is no constitutional basis why we have our military in all of these sovereign, foreign Countries! We are following what the (Late) Great Brittan found out after boasting that The Sun never sets on Great Brittan". Well, the Sun has set on them, as it did on the soviets when they finally figured out Afghanistan was a loosing proposition.

    When are we going to wake up? If it is worth American Lives, Let us see a Formal Declaration of War From Congress. This little skirmish in Afghanistan/Pakistan (and Iraq) would have been completed within 6 months, if there was a goal to this fighting. There has never been a plan. Not under Bush and not under Obama. Support our troops by bringing them home!

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Nov. 13, 2011 8:40 a.m.

    Asked about attacking Iran, Paul said the president is obliged to follow the Constitution and go through Congress before attacking the country. He compared the current situation to the one before the United States launched its invasion of Iraq in 2003.

    Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich strongly advocated going to war with Iran. Romney said that if crippling sanctions fail, military action would be used because it is unacceptable for Iran to become a nuclear power like the United States, Russia, Britain, China, France, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel. Proof they will not be good presidents if elected.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Nov. 13, 2011 8:34 a.m.

    It literally made me sick watching the mainstream media once again silence the one sane voice in this election, said Campaign Manager John Tate. The one dissenter to a decade of unchecked war. The one candidate who stands for true defense and actual constitutional government. Ron Paul was silenced, in perhaps the most important debate of the cycle.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Nov. 13, 2011 8:31 a.m.

    You say you want smaller government and when a guy like Ron paul comes along, smaller government is proven to be idle talk with most Republicans. I guess they like their socialst government programs and their nazi invasion tactics of other countries after all.

    I laugh at your claims of wanting smaller government because you are just basing it off of phony broken campaign promises of Romney, Perry or Cain.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 8:27 a.m.

    'Thanks for keeping me on my toes.' - David King | 12:01 a.m. Nov. 13, 2011

    You are welcome.

    With so much mis-information out there....

    *Sen Kyl mocked for making up numbers in abortion debate By Sara Israelsen-Hartley DSNews 04/12/11

    *'Bill O'Reilly apologizes to Shirley Sherrod for 'not doing my homework' - By Matea Gold - LA Times - Published by DSNews - 07/22/10
    'NEW YORK Fox News host Bill O'Reilly offered a rare mea culpa Wednesday, apologizing for airing a controversial tape of a speech given by a black U.S. Dept. of Agriculture official that was edited to make it appear she was racist.'

    *'Univ. of Maryland study finds Fox News viewers to be misinformed on key issues' - By Ryan Witt - Examiner - 12/17/10
    'Over 40% of respondents said President Obama started TARP even though TARP was signed into law by President Bush on October 3rd of 2008.'

    Not implying that you watch Fox, but there is a LOT of information out there that is not correct.

    i.e. Obama was born in Kenya. I LOVE using that now! :)

    *'White House releases Obama birth certificate' - By Julie Pace - AP - 04/27/11

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Nov. 13, 2011 7:50 a.m.

    If we elect Romney, Iran won't have nuclear weapons? How? I would like to know some specifics on that.

    Yeah, I would like to bomb Iran, a lot of people would like to bomb Iran, but we just can't go around doing that stuff.

    As much as I like Israel (this is really about them, more than it is about US) I think that the best advice we can give them is that they should outflank Iran on the diplomatic front and make peace with the Palestinians. Is it worth all the trouble, the expense and the risk so that a bunch of settlers in the West Bank can hang onto Palestinian lands. Israel, quit while you are ahead.

    If not, the US still should not get sucked into a foreign entanglement.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 7:48 a.m.

    There should be a constitutional amendment to require the GOP's new war be paid for in cash in advance by each taxpayer. This time the Trillion Dollar price tag should be paid for and not added to the debt like the last two. (The unfunded wars of the Bush Administration coupled with the Tax break was a major factor to the recession)

  • sergio Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 13, 2011 7:36 a.m.

    The GOP needs to go back to the drawing board and try to come up with a candidate worthy of American voters consideration. The only two who appear to be worthy of being in the race are Huntsman and Paul; all the others are way off the mark. America maybe in real trouble if it can't come up with better leaders and statesmen than these self centered politicians.

  • Itsjstmeagain Merritt Island, Fl
    Nov. 13, 2011 6:46 a.m.

    I am amazed at the race of the Republican primary candidates to the ultra right. The Tea Party is marginalized and the Christian block is weak in the general population.
    I would love to see some rational specific discussion on how to fix our problems here at home and not have the conversation hijacked by rushing to extremist views.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 12:08 a.m.

    Can someone please explain to me how starting yet another war - this time in Iran - is defending the Constitution?

  • David King Layton, UT
    Nov. 13, 2011 12:01 a.m.


    "Where did you get your information David?
    As, there were ZERO US troops in Libya before and after Ghdafi was killed."

    Oops. I meant to put simply "U.S. involvement" not military. I stand corrected. I did know that no U.S. ground troops were involved, and for that I give the President credit.

    Thanks for keeping me on my toes.

  • Joe Moe Logan, UT
    Nov. 12, 2011 11:53 p.m.

    If we want a decent president in the vein of "normal" presidents, I hope republicans get around to Huntsman. If we want some serious change for the better, we need someone like Paul.

  • Doug10 Roosevelt, UT
    Nov. 12, 2011 11:45 p.m.

    Perry said....
    That's what happens in war. I'm for using the techniques, not torture, but using those techniques that we know will extract the information to save young Americans' lives and will be for it until I die.

    I thought he died the other night in the last debate.

    Somebody forgot to tell him.

    USA maintains overseas bases in Japan, Korea, South Africa, Germany, like it was 1965,and that is not all of them.

    Current cost to maintain overseas bases like it was 1965 is $86 million per day.

    Has anyone heard one GOP candidate say anything about bringing those folks home...Mitt sort of did when he said he will cut $100 million a year in overseas spending.

    How will they get along without that 1.2 days of income? ....oh perish the thought...

    In other words he is not going to upset the applecart that has got us into this mess.

    Still looking for someone who can be elected and has the backbone to call it like it is.

    Mitt is putting perfume over garbage, does not fix the problem but it makes it smell better.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Nov. 12, 2011 11:37 p.m.

    I missed the debate. Did anyone suggest that we send Dick Cheney to Iran first in order to make sure Iran has nukes before blowing another nation to kingdom come? Did any of the candidates volunteer to lead (or maybe have a SON lead) the first bombing attack, presumably on Tehran? And could we sell sponsorship ads on the sides of bombers to companies that paid no income taxes?

  • Kiyo Washougal, Washington
    Nov. 12, 2011 11:08 p.m.

    Re Pagan: What world do you live in?...NATO struck Libya. The U.S.A. is is is NATO. I understand, your comments are meant to provoke.. O.K.... You yourself couldn't believe half of what you post here. It is, of coarse, a proxy war, funded with the deficit spending(our tax money).

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2011 11:03 p.m.

    They need to start a war to win.

  • Kiyo Washougal, Washington
    Nov. 12, 2011 10:26 p.m.

    "Tough Talk" is necessary in this tough world. That said, Mitt has left war as the last option on his list of solutions. BHO is almost certainly going to take this country into a wider war in the middle east, if he wins re-election, with or without congressional approval................ Who does not believe this? .........what are their names?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2011 10:14 p.m.

    'Unlike Obama, he would not involve the U.S. military in Libya without a declaration of war by Congress.' - David King | 8:12 p.m. Nov. 12, 2011

    Where did you get your information David?

    As, there were ZERO US troops in Libya before and after Ghdafi was killed.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2011 10:10 p.m.

    'A few years ago, a green President Obama figured we could just apologize to Muslim nations...' - ouisc | 9:13 p.m. Nov. 12, 2011

    Reply facts:

    *'Osama bin Laden Killed: 'Justice Is Done,' President Says' - By DEAN SCHABNER - ABC News - 05/01/2011

    'Osama bin Laden, hunted as the mastermind behind the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil, has been killed, President Obama announced tonight.'

    *'We have been waiting for this moment': Libya confirms Gadhafi is dead' - MSNBC - 10/20/2011

    SIRTE, Libya  Deposed Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi has been killed, the Libyan prime minister confirmed Thursday, following news of his capture and reports of his death.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 12, 2011 9:17 p.m.

    sorry that last comment was directed at veracity. Interesting name for someone that did not put much support for their argument by the way.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 12, 2011 9:16 p.m.

    Care to comment on why you think they are wrong or do you just want to stick to childish comments?

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    Nov. 12, 2011 9:13 p.m.

    A few years ago, a green President Obama figured we could just apologize to Muslim nations, including Iran, and diplomatically become allies with Iran. A few months in, he saw Israel's intelligence on Iran, and realized he is in way over his head. Now President Obama's letters and requests to Iran go unanswered--we are irrelevant to Iran.

    So for the past year, we've enacted sanctions, more sanctions, and even more sanctions, which has only made the current government in Iran even stronger.

    We really need to find out what other key nations are willing to do. I think we've effectively proven the U.S. can not go into a war in the Middle East with a couple of buddies and clean things up. I give Obama credit on this one--he's currently calling out other key nations to find out how far they're willing to go to prevent Iran from nuclear weapons.

    I'm rather disappointed in the responses by the GOP. Although I think we have lost valuable time with Iran the past two years, the approach we need to take is to engage other key nations and develop a plan with the rest of the world.

  • Veracity Morgan, UT
    Nov. 12, 2011 8:52 p.m.

    After reading the first three or four remarks to this article, I now understand how Obama was elected, what kind of individual elected him and why America is in a world of hurt presently...and it is this type of thinking which might re-elect Obama again...maybe it is Obama that will usher in the end-of-the-world if so he is well on his way.

    Wake up people and smell the roses.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 12, 2011 8:44 p.m.

    So a vote for Romney = a vote to go to war with Iran. Very interesting. Because unless Romney has some secret mojo sauce, that is the only option he has left himself.

    Buckle folks - looks like were going to send out boys back to the middle east to another war..... and surely re-igniting the war in Korea will be next on his list. Lets see how many votes he thinks this will buy him, predeclaring his decision to go to war.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Nov. 12, 2011 8:34 p.m.

    My respect for Cain as a master of obfuscation is rising: "I'm against torture, but I will let someone else define it, and some one ELSE decide who gets it. That's what leaders do." OK, it's not word for word, but it's close enough.

  • David King Layton, UT
    Nov. 12, 2011 8:12 p.m.

    JohnJacob, Pagan, and Melanna all ignore one inconvenient little truth. His name is Ron Paul. He has been against all wars of aggression, and stood firm regardless of party. Unlike Obama, he would not involve the U.S. military in Libya without a declaration of war by Congress. Unlike Obama, he would not assume he holds the power to assassinate American citizens without a trial. There's one candidate dedicated to adhering to the U.S. Constitution when it comes to foreign policy, and it is not Romney, Perry, Cain, or Obama. Take a look at what Ron Paul has said for decades and you will see why Ron Paul receives more money from the active duty than Obama, and more than all other Republicans combined. (Center for Responsive Politics study)

  • Blue Bolshevik Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2011 8:03 p.m.

    Perhaps Mitt should rehire Ollie North and John Poindexter, arms for hostages worked so well for them the the first time, eh?

  • Melanna Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 12, 2011 7:31 p.m.

    what great idea the last to wars the gop started then washed their hands of really did wonders for our economy.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2011 7:12 p.m.

    Another Republican president, another unfunded war based on heresay.

    I wonder how many trillions in debt we will accrue before NO weapons are found...again.

    As exampled by:

    "The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons.' - George W. Bush - Ohio Speech 10/7/2002

    *'US gives up search for Iraq WMD' - BBC News - 01/12/05
    'Mr Duelfer reported last year that Iraq had no stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons at the time of the US-led invasion nearly two years ago.'

    *'George W Bush says Iraq intelligence failure is his biggest regret' - By Alex Spillius - 12/01/08 - The UK telegraph

    'Though the outgoing US president failed to take responsibility for the misfortunes that have beset the country during his eight years in office, he was candid about wishing things had gone better.'


    *'U.S. Military deaths in Iraq war at 4,473 - AP - Published by the DSNews - 08/02/2011

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Nov. 12, 2011 6:56 p.m.

    The last 2 unfunded wars cost 3 trillion and counting so Republicans can really be for less spending and smaller government by adding a 3rd war which we will go further in debt with China for. Thanks GW Bush for adding 6 trillion to the debt that includes your other unfunded projects such as 700 billion for banks, 1 trillion for medicaid prescription, 2 stimulus packages.