So, this is my fourth attempt to respond to Howard without getting denied. It's
difficult to respond politely enough to your comments, Howard, because they are
so...I better not say if I want this approved.Suffice it to say that
I happen to know that Riley did this 100% spontaneously, nothing forcibly or
maliciously intended. Nothing harmful. Fortunately, the official was rational
and understood the nature of the rule.Despite that you portray
yourself as relatively uptight, even you can rest assured that this is probably
a one time thing, from Riley anyway. Hopefully, for the sake of your blood
pressure, the copycats remain at a minimum.
@greenshovelWait... what? Personal space? Don't do it
again? I think the Cougs ought to high-five the ref. after every
score.After all... it's not a foul and as long as it's fun for Riley
and Bronco who cares about invading the personal space of an unsuspecting game
Personal space.I wouldn't recommend doing that again.
Noble,You are correct in mentioning that there are a number of non BCS
conferences. However, BCS or not, the teams within their conferences are already
scheduled to play each other for years down the road. The challenge for a
NEW independent, as was the case for BYU last year, is to find teams who have
holes or will create them to fit BYU in. Games early in the year are easier to
schedule as teams typically are filling their non conference cards then, i.e.
Ole Miss and Texas. The later you go in the season,the tougher it is to find
teams with non conference holes. So, you end up with what you see now.Also, the other 3 independents, Notre Dame, Navy and Army, all have deep
tradition in scheduling set. BYU was fortunate to get the long term deal with ND
put together and one with Navy would be great as well. Army, not so much, but
still better than some of these current opponents.All in all, it's a minor
miracle there is a full schedule at all on such short notice.Hope this
Okay Howard, you can wake up now.What foul? There is no foul. The
actual wording of the rule betrays you, friend. No contention necessary here.
You are simply letting your prejudice cloud your judgement.It was
initially funny, as in amusing, that you'd throw this issue up for comment. But,
now that you are actually seriously defending it a second time? You're scaring
me. Halloween was Monday, bro. Spooky.There is no way any clear
thinking official ever calls this. It is obviously intended to protect officials
from an attack...not a high five.
Riley as the quarterback deserves to be the starter as he isn't responsible for
the scheduling of his opponent. Heaps was the starter last year because of
injury to the starter and he performed well last season. BYU football schedule
this year is easier in terms of strength of schedule than all the previous
seasons when BYU was in MWC. The questions is why did BYU schedule this as a
independent, so many teams from non BCS conference? Was it to ensure a winning
season, as I don't see it helping BYU get into a BCS bowl or being invited into
a BCS conference?
So, it appears the apologist are out in force defending the high-five foul
committed by Riley Nelson.Let's look at the matter another way
Cougar fans.If, as you contend, Riley's high-five was not a foul
against TCU, it wouldn't be a foul against Idaho, or NM State, or Hawaii.So, test the proposition... Do it again...After every BYU
score, Riley should seek out the nearest official and offer up a celebratory
high-five.If, as the Cougar Nation claims, a simple referee
high-five is within the intent of the rules... then... no harm and no foul.But, if the celebratory high-fiving of young Brother Nelson is
considered outside the realm of NCAA propriety... the officials will certainly
make their intentions known with their yellow hankies... And who
knows... maybe Riley will get a second NCAA rule named after him.
Why don't we just encase the refs in little bubbles like the Pope? Good grief. I
think the Utesies have violated a myriad of PAC-?? rules for putting the most
inept offense in the nation on the field.UtahManDanCuz
the Utes never have had a ridiculous call go there way that awarded them points
last year in the rivalry when the replay officials couldn't clearly see a knee
@HowyEditing out "Forcibly " and then rant a top your
self appointed soap box. Like always all you need is to give them enough rope
and they will hang themselves.
It seems our friend Howard did a little exclusionary editing as the rule he is
referencing says exactly the following:Article 4: Persons subject to
the rules shall not intentionally contact a game official forcibly during the
game.Forcibly=high five. Probably not even for a Utah fan.
Howard SThe key word in the rule is intentional (and I am pretty
sure it also implies malicious.) I am not sure Riley knew he was
high fiving.Go back and watch how fast it all happened.And it wasn't malicious at all. I think the ref was smiling too.
There ya go. That's sensible. So, every time a player shakes hands
with an official after the coin toss they should also throw a flag and eject
him.It certainly would be intentional and fits your strict adherence
to the rules. The team would really have to reconsider who the captains would be
that they sacrifice to this strict application of this notable rule you've
Good thing Howard wasn't a referee at that game. He would have called the
penalty and we would have ended up losing the game. Oh wait...But at least it would have taught that dirty player Nelson a lesson,
Now hold on now Howard! We can't let a rule get in the way of a little fun, can
we?Of course if Jake Locker gets excited and throws the ball 'high'
into the air, then the official must throw that flag!
Since it's all about fun here today, here's a fun fact for Cougar fans.Riley's high-five celebration was a violation of Rule Number 9, Section 2,
Article 4, of the official NCAA Football Rulebook. Its true, Cougar
fans, look it up. The rule prohibits intentional physical contact with a game
official.Its a dead-ball foul, 15 yards on the succeeding spot, and
disqualification of the player.Certainly seems odd to me that Bronco
would praise Riley for committing a foul that should have resulted in his
disqualification, and further commenting that he would love for that image to be
a symbol of BYU football.
Take a breath, folks. He made some poor decisions, trying to push the edge.
Two to one he made some great plays, pushing the edge. I'll take him, warts and
all. You can have someone else - Wynn? Hays? Heaps? If Jake learns from
Riley's attitude, he may yet become the QB we thought he was well on his way to
becoming.Really? Ragging on the high five? They HAD just scored a
touchdown, and then he EXERTED his will over the TCU defense and got the
conversion, despite a fine defensive effort by several players. You expect him
to get off the ground mourning? In case you hadn't noticed, BYU was still
trying to win the game at that point, and don't look back, but TCU had not
stopped and put in the second teamers either.
I am surprised no one has made a comment on his attitude about it being him. If
it were heaps you all would be saying he is arrogant. He does need to make
better decisions. He has taken momentum away from BYU at times they needed to
For those of you who are all giddy with your local boy QB Nelson, continue to
have that wonderful feel good attitude. Talk to me when he beats a team with a
winning record and can get to a meaningful bowl game. I hope we get some good
QB's to continue on the tradition in 2013 and beyond. 2012 could be a long
year, unless you're satisfied with a less talented but gritty, fun loving team
leader and wins against sub .500 teams. Glad the Cougs will be relevent in
basketball again with a new conference.
So, here is a young man with a mature and realistic view of his game, yes, game.
He has done what it takes to qualify for a scholarship to play this game and get
an education to become a surgeon. Surgery? Now, there's something
that may have life or death consequences, but football? He's right.
It's just a game. And, just because so many of you live frustrated lives of
vicarious sports role play, [flawlessly I might add, as you'd certainly never
make a mistake if coach would just put you in] you can't stand that he isn't
losing sleep, like you are.Calm down people.
truthserumBYU would have been in the Big 12 before TCU, if BYU had
been willing to accept an invitation without any conditions. Nobody who really
knows has stated publicly the specific conditions BYU was unwilling to bend on,
but one thing is certain, they weren't insignificant to BYU.
Chris BYour so cool. Hangin your entire existence on utah's two BCS
wins. In twenty years you'll still be chiming "we won 2 BCS games."
Then you'll sound just like BYU fans who talk about 1984.You want
respect? BYU is having the second down year in a row, yet they are all over the
national news.utah can barely get a headline nationally...even with their 2 BCS wins.I seem to remember you always pointing
out to BYU fans that what you have done recently is more important than what you
did in the past.Take your keen eye and examine what utah has done
the last 13 games.Respect? Yep, there's some respect.
Juggernaut / PatriotDo you use tea leaves or a crystal ball to
fabricate your soothsaying?
Sorry little sister, but a BCS invite is far more complicated and involves many
more factors than your simplistic definition of "BCS respect".
I agree that you should have fun but the game was in hand when he did the high
five. It is true, that should not be the highlight of the game. Bronco is
totally infatuated with nelson, heaps won't be at the program very long.
Big 12 call yet?And they won't.You EARN BCS respect.Try going undefeated.Try going undefeated again.Try earning
a BCS Bowl.Try earninga BCS Bowl again.Try winning a BCS game.Try winning a BCS game again.Try finishing #2 in the polls.Try
beating the SEC's second best team by several touchdowns.There is a
reason the BCS won't call. Too much baggage with not much to provide.
@TrueBlue:BYU BA Degree, 2005. Absolutely loved my time at BYU.
Will recommend my children go to BYU, and hopefully my two boys will be good
enough athletes to play sports at BYU, or at another Pac 12 school. Not a
Ute Troll. The Utes are also a wobbly ship right now. A pivotal year for them.
Recruiting could go way up or way down depending on how they finish the year.
Terrible planning by the Utes to have ZERO backup options at QB, and the Utes
are as mediocre as they are because of the QB situation. Their record is
telling. But let's be honest with ourselves Ute and Cougar fans.... both
teams are underachieving this year, no question. So to answer your question
TrueBlue, yes, the Utes are also a wobbly ship. No pretending here. Let's not
get ahead of ourselves. If Utah doesn't fix some things quickly they are
destined to remain in the bottom third of the Pac12 for years to come, if not
forever. And if BYU doesn't get into a BCS conference (hopefully the Big 12)
soon, BYU football may be destined for some tough times as well. Time will
truthserum = Ute trollnice try, but BYU is hardly the wobbly ship
you would like to pretend they are
Are we really talking about "having fun" as any sort of consolation
for losing the game? This is Division 1 football! Win, win, win, win, win,
period. No excuses about injuries, QB situations, turnovers, etc. BYU football
is nearly irrelevant now, where high-fiving the ref, catchy slogans and
"having fun" are as important as winning. Sadly, the truth about the
Cougars, a proud and nationally respected program, is that we are slowly
slipping, and I fear never again to be the formidable opponent we believe
ourselves to be. In all honesty, does anyone think BYU has a leg up on the
competition in recruiting, coaching, scheme or athleticism? This year has been
bizarre, to say the least. Doman doesn't have the experience, Nelson is a
benefactor of a terrible schedule, and Bronco is flat out too quiet, and kind of
weird. I would love to see some fire in his eyes every once in a while. I am
both a BYU and a Utah fan, and hold degrees from both schools. My attempt is to
call a spade a spade with both BYU and Utah. I love both schools, hopefully BYU
can right a wobbly ship.
"I would love that to kind of be a symbol of BYU football you're having so
much fun that you're finding someone to celebrate with."I don't
know, coach, I'd kind of like beating Top 25 teams to be the symbol of BYU
Good energy from Riley and the team. The loss hurts but it is the punting game
that was the difference. BYU is very athletic and is good on defense and good
in offensive skill positions. The rest of the year will be fun and many of the
players will be around for the next 2.Riley is going to make big
exciting plays but he will also make mistakes with his style of play. Live by
the Riley, die by the Riley. I hope Jake figures things out, redshirts, or
takes the starting position from Riley because Jake gets so good. I'm enjoying
the ride. Go Cougars!
I think that if more BYU players had Riley's attitude, they would be undefeated.
Number one, have fun. Take it serious, but have fun. You can do both with a
little dicipline. If you're not having fun, then don't play the game. I loved it
when he high fived the ref. All of a sudden, it didn't really matter that we
were losing. He made the game fun to watch. If all you care about is winning,
then you are in for a miserable life. Thanks Riley for making me
look at the game from a different view and taking the stress out of life.
If high-fiving a ref after a score in garbage time is our highlight of the game,
then BYU football has sunk pretty far. I like Riley's heart and fight, but
Riley needs to cut out the turnovers then I'll high-five him all day.
I think Nelson has been fantastic. He's made plenty of mistakes, but The WHOLE
team has. I expect Nelson to get better with experience. The biggest thing is
he needs to know when to take a sack and try on another down. The offense is
light years better than with Heaps. I think Heaps will get there, but he needs
some time to grow into the position. Do you not remember Heaps locking into
receivers, telegraphing his throws, putting the ball in the wrong spot, throwing
the ball 100 mph, etc.? Heaps needs to learn how to leave everything on the
field and win like Nelson, and then he'll be fine. Until then, I'm having a
great time watching Nelson.
Re: Wayne Rout-- I agree w/ most of your post/comments. However, as much as I,
too, am frustrated, you lost me with your last statement-- "Bring back
Crowton." In the immortal words of Malkuly Culkin in "Home
Alone"---- Noooooooooooo! Crowton brought the program down to a new,
all-time low that we don't want to return to. Crowton is doing what he's best
at, being a good offensive coordinator. Bronco has turned this program around. I
just don't think the program has continued to progress the last two seasons now
(counting the current one), which is why I believe his shtick is starting to get
@Howard S. - No kidding. Yes, as funny as it was it is actually frustrating to
some BYU fans like myself.Heaps was under the microscope 24/7 while
Nelson cant do anything wrong?As long as it was wonder boy Nelson
that high fived the ref though it was okay right?If it was Chambers,
it would be considered rude and disrespectful towards authority and he would
have had gotten a tongue lashing on the sideline.If it continued
then his scholarship would be pulled and a year of eligibility would be lost.
Then the arrogant player would need to prove himself for a year by writing on
the chalk board a thousand times a day "I am not allowed to have
fun".Not trying to make a political statement here. And dont
tell me to lighten up. I already said I thought it was funny too. I'm just
saying. The coaching staff needs to be careful of the perception of a double
standard. The RUDYs of the team seem to be getting a lot more cheerleading than
He's having fun? It reminds me of the scene from 'Money Ball' when he finds the
team partying and having fun after a loss. He tears up the locker room and asks,
"Is losing fun?" They are silenced. He says about the silence,
"that is what losing sounds like". I like Riley's
intensity, but celebrating a touchdown in basically garbage time of a game like
that kind of shows that the bar has been lowered at BYU.
I'm glad he is having fun. It was not too much fun for me watching his constant
mistakes. I can't understand how his mistakes, which are many, are excused
while Jake's are not. BYU will never win with Nelson...there is no hope. He
will always "shoot himself in the foot". I have decided to give up
my season tickets held for over 25 years. I can't take it any more. Bring
Amazing stuff. So glad that this writer and, especially, the coach both agree
that Nelson is "having fun." Now, how about a little input on wishing
Nelson could be more consistent, more wise/smart with ball possession, more
aware of the other teammates on offensive who can help him out, more aware that
he doesn't need to be a Super Man on literally every play. Granted, I laughed
when I saw him high-five the ref, but I don't know if that's worthy of an entire
article, which also includes such a comment from the Coach. Seemed to me I read
an article about how "stunned" Coach was with is punting team. Glad
he's ok with the offense because his QB is having fun. I love me Cougs, but I
have to be frank with you, I've never questioned as many things about Coach as I
have this season. So, I try to enjoy watching the games and not paying attention
to Coach. But then I read statements like this ... Sigh.
granted we have a weak schedule but after last year it's nice to be well above
.500... in 5 years most people won't be worrying about the level of competition
they'll just look at the win/loss column. true it is better to have national
relevance but i'll take a wining season any day.
It must be heartening for BYU fans to know that losing won't keep Riley and
Bronco from having fun.
Nelson did a great job in the come back against Utah State. However, his
liabilities have been as much as his contributions since. The offense which
came back almost complete from a year ago was really clicking last year. I was
thinking, the only big change was the offensive coordinator. Perhaps Heaps has
taken too much of the brunt.
Life is played very fast and if you don't slow down and look around you are
going to miss it, way to play this awesome game Riley.
We were flipping channels back and forth between this game and the World Series.
This high five was happening the exact same time as the Cardinals won the
Series. We wanted to watch the Cardinals celebrate, but seeing Riley pull this
off made us glad we stayed glued to the Cougar game.That was
I thought the ref was going to throw a flag for excessive celebration on the
high five. I guess he was too stunned.
Riley's the man!Smart move to start him at Q, the Y wouldn't have
had any points on the board without him.Hang in there Band of Lil
Even the highest level professionals can make dumb mistakes (such as Phillip
Rivers fumbling the snap on what should have been the Chargers winning drive on
Monday night football). Riley Nelson has brought energy back to BYU's offense,
and the future is bright as long as his body can survive what he subjects it to
with his fearless style of play, which is something to be admired.