Greed vs. ambition

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  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 1, 2011 8:56 p.m.

    You are making a lot of assumptions about OWS protestors based on what?
    According to a survey of Zucotti Park protesters by the Baruch College School of Public Affairs published on October 19, of 1,619 web respondents, 1/3 were older than 35, half were employed full-time, 13% were unemployed and 13% earned over $75,000. 27.3% of the respondents called themselves Democrats, 2.4% called themselves Republicans, while the rest, 70%, called themselves independents.

    On Oct. 10 and 11, the polling firm Penn, Schoen & Berland interviewed nearly 200 protesters. Half (52%) have participated in a political movement before, 98% would support civil disobedience to achieve their goals, and 31% would support violence to advance their agenda. Most are employed; 15% are unemployed.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 1, 2011 5:49 p.m.

    re: Dart,

    Have the OWS protesters actually got where they are based on "merit"? Have any of them "earned" the right to lecture anyone else on what constitutes the misuse of "wealth"? Have they paid all of their student loans, or are they demanding that you and I pay those bills for them? Have they prepared themselves for the workforce, or are they demanding a job, regardless of ability that pays them a comfortable living, without regard to the value of that job to society?

    We should all be outraged. We should be outraged that people would camp in OUR public parks and demand that WE pay their way through life because THEY think that someone else who works hard should be penalized for being successful.

    We should be outraged that our President is preaching class warfare and class envy when he should be uniting the people.

    We should be outraged that people would fall for anyone preaching "coveting" their neighbors' possessions.

    It was wrong when Moses taught us. It was wrong when Christ taught us. What makes it "right" today?

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    Nov. 1, 2011 5:36 p.m.

    I AGREE that OWS is about people manipulating the system to get rich through illicit means and the lack of oversight and punishment for these people.

    Utah "MUST-STOP" importing illegals. "Greed vs. their ambition"

    There are ways to reduce federal health spending without cutting short grandma's life. In addition to expanding Medicaid, and contrary to the president's promise, the new law allocates billions of dollars to expand services largely for illegal immigrants, including $11 billion for community health centers serving those ineligible for Medicaid. Why should grandma's care be cut to free up resources for lawbreakers?. Among those calling for less care for seniors is H. Gilbert Welch of Dartmouth Medical College. "If you were hoping to play the "death panel" card, now's your chance," Welch says to his critics. "But don't play it and then pretend you care about the budget." That brazen statement, pitting grandma's well-being against the nation's fiscal health is a false choice. Future federal healthcare spending can be significantly reduced by repealing the expansion of Medicaid and the billions poured into medical and interpreter services for illegal immigrants under the Obama health law before these provisions go into effect.


  • Dart Thrower Ogden, UT
    Nov. 1, 2011 4:59 p.m.

    OWS is about ill-gotten gains. No one wants to limit ambition or punish those that have earned their pay by merit. OWS is about people manipulating the system to get rich through illicit means and the lack of oversight and punishment for these people. It is about Enron, not Huntsman or Buffett. When you have Wall Street firms putting together a financial product, selling it and then literally betting on its failure in the marketplace, that is where the outrage comes from. All we need is old fashioned fiduciary responsibility with transparency. Earn your money, you keep it. Steal it and you go to jail.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 1, 2011 3:56 p.m.

    Which is worse, envy or greed? Few people will every "profit" from "greed", but many people are listening to Mr. Obama as he preaches his gospel of class envy, class warfaree and of coveting the riches of others.

    Few of us will ever have the opportunity to choose where to "bestow" our wealth. We are too busy trying to pay the normal bills of life. We feed our families. We provide for them as best we are able, but, some divert their attention to the wealth of others. Some would stick their noses into the bank accounts of others. Some would tell others what they should do with the money that they have earned.

    Fine. If that's the way you want to be, let ME decide for YOU how YOU will spend YOUR money.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2011 2:10 p.m.


    I wholeheartedly agree that some people should stay out of other people's business. I wish the wealthy would stay out of my business. They have a lot more influence on tax and regulatory policy than I do, and the result over the last 30 years is that the income of the top 1% has risen 275%, while the income of the rest of America has risen only 40%. "The audacity of some people who think they have a right to anothers earned wealth" applies more to the wealthy who have engineered this redistribution of wealth--my wealth--into their hands. I doubt I have done anything to reverse that flow of money. Frankly, I have sufficient for my needs, and I don't want their money.

    I admire Jon Huntsman Sr. for a lot of things, but I am reminded of how he made his billions every time I go to a restaurant and get take-out food packed in one of Huntsman Chemical's styrofoam clam shell containers, of which billions now occupy our land-fills.

    I appreciate that you want to use any excuse to defend the wealthy, but next time stay on topic, please.

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    Nov. 1, 2011 12:31 p.m.

    Thank you for all your "Recommend" votes.

    I told you all, I would tell you all the truth's.

    I didn't say you would like them or even the truth in them.

    But the truth shall never be covered up.

    Not even by a DN moderator.

    With their own Greed to hide anything one would say about their DN icon's of wannabe president hopefuls, or any Utah law maker, vs. their ambition to get them elected, because of the letter "R", after there name, for political faviors later on down the road, and, for them to ignore the will of the people.

    Enjoy more of my truth's.

    While you can still get them, that is.

    Have a nice day now.

    I know, I will.

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    Nov. 1, 2011 12:18 p.m.

    Greed vs. RINO/Wall Street ambition's. House Reform and Government Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa has questioned the need for the Energy Departments clean energy efforts while seeking a loan from the program for a home-state electric car company. Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, an outspoken critic of the stimulus and a champion of fiscal discipline, wrote letters seeking stimulus money and took credit with his constituents. Enzis son is working as a consultant on a part of the related project that benefitted from government money. The K Street Project is a project by the Republican Party to pressure Washington lobbying firms to hire Republicans in top positions, and to reward loyal GOP lobbyists with access to influential officials. It was launched in 1995, by Republican strategist Grover Norquist and House majority leader Tom DeLay (now in prison doing 140 years). DeLay of the House, Rick Santorum of the Senate, and Grover Norquist took this opportunity to expand the K Street Project by pressuring major lobbying firms to hire only Republicans in any new or open CEO positions. "OUR" economy is being tugged between the powerful downward force of the Koch Brother's.

    OWS, "tax the rich?."

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 1, 2011 11:48 a.m.


    Maybe some people should stay out of other peoples business. The audacity of some people who think they have a right to anothers earned wealth.
    Now, lets listen to our dear leader as he continues to spew class warfare rhetoric to divide a nation.

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2011 11:27 a.m.

    One persons greed is another persons ambition. Your concept is wonderful until it comes to the details. Would you advocate legislation with its own unintended consequences?

  • newintown WOODS CROSS, UT
    Nov. 1, 2011 10:59 a.m.

    @ just1voice:

    You are not just 1 voice. Thank you for your insight.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 1, 2011 10:56 a.m.

    Ambition is the child of greed. And the mother of greed is the basic drive of all life to survive.

    It is present in all creatures and all men and women. Though it may be mitigated in some be other forces it is still there. It is not something evil and bad, it is just life. And like other things in life, it needs to be controlled in order to receive the full benefit.

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    Nov. 1, 2011 9:50 a.m.

    I agree with C. Douglas Swenson statement that society should have at it, as OWS does, with CEOs and politicians who simply line their pockets and egos with undue rewards. "A Taste For Pork." Should they be a Vegan also, like the middle-class has to be while they toss us under the bus more?. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, seeking tax dollars for his district from some of the very programs he criticizes. Rick Perry, accepting more than $2 billion from the stimulus for his state. Michele Bachmann, sought stimulus money for transportation projects in her district while criticizing the stimulus as wasteful. John Boehner, pressuring the administration for a clean energy loan guarantee for a uranium project in his home state of Ohio, among other requests for special treatment for specific companies. House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Fred Upton sought a loan guarantee for a Russian-backed Michigan company from the same program he is investigating as part of the Solyndra scandal. The 4th form of Government is K Street that is a major thoroughfare in the United States capital of Washington, D.C. known as a center for numerous think tanks, lobbyists, and advocacy groups.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 1, 2011 9:48 a.m.

    The problem we face today isn't so much about wealth as it is about the power that wealth buys. We, like many other Americans, have worked and saved, played by the rules, and were fortunate to have grown up in a solidly middle class neighborhood with an intact families. We've been saving for retirement and college. But in 2008, the economy crashed, setting us back at least 3 yrs in our goals, which wont be recovered. But once again, we've been lucky. We didn't lose our jobs, or our house (that we bought in 2006). Many have not been so lucky.

    The gambling that went on with large banks and Wall Street continues. Those responsible don't get it. They are blind to the damage they did but mostly they simply don't care. And the ignorant think it is about coveting when, for many, it is simply about survival.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Nov. 1, 2011 9:23 a.m.

    Meanwhile, the former CEO of United Health Group has flown off to his private island with nearly $1 billion grabbed from backdated stock options. Clearly in violation of the law, this guy paid a "fine" of about $100 million and carried the rest laughing to the bank. This is what people like me are protesting, not guys like Huntsman. Viva OWS.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Nov. 1, 2011 8:48 a.m.

    D&C 56:16-17
    16 Wo unto you rich men, that will not give your substance to the poor, for your riches will canker your souls; and this shall be your lamentation in the day of visitation, and of judgment, and of indignation: The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and my soul is not saved!

    17 Wo unto you poor men, whose hearts are not broken, whose spirits are not contrite, and whose bellies are not satisfied, and whose hands are not stayed from laying hold upon other mens goods, whose eyes are full of greediness, and who will not labor with your own hands!

    Greed knows no income level, lets just remember where it comes from, and what we should be doing with whatever we have been blessed with.

  • Just1Voice WEST JORDAN, UT
    Nov. 1, 2011 8:25 a.m.

    Why do so many worry about what others have accumulated? I have what I have because I worked for it. I don't care about being rich. That won't make me happy. I have my family and I have time to spend with them. I believe that the best things in life aren't things.

    The American Dream is that you can start with nothing and work up from there. I may never have enough money that I don't have to worry about bills, but I can still be happy.

    If you feel like you don't have "enough," get out and do something about it. I don't mean camp in the park and hold up cardboard signs. I mean do something to change YOUR circumstances. Quit focusing on what other people have. Quit complaining about not getting "your share." If you did not work for something, you have no right to it.

    You have the right to pursue happiness, not a guarantee that you will achieve it.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Nov. 1, 2011 7:57 a.m.

    So Douglass how do you tell the difference between greed and ambition? You worry that those protesting wall street may confuse abition for greed. How about by their fruits ye shall know them? Or as a pragmatist would ask how has the wall street system worked out, what are its results? When a wall street centric economy has produced an increase in wealth of 245% for the top 1% over the past thrity years and an increase of between 40% and 60% for the vast majority of it's other working citizens..I think the distinction is's greed. The production of wealth isn't at question here it's the distribution of the wealth produced.

    The situation isn't actually as simple as greed versus ambition but that comparison is a good marker to demonstrate how broken our system is.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 1, 2011 7:43 a.m.

    The debate over the "deserving poor" and the "undeserving poor" has been with us for centuries. Apparently we're beginning to have the same debate about the rich.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2011 5:33 a.m.

    I applaud all wealthy people like Huntsman, Gates, and Buffett, who donate vast sums to charitable causes; what they do is indeed praiseworthy. However, I am not aware of any of them who is not still fabulously wealthy after the donation. Their donations don't really hurt them or reduce them to the level of the common man. They have not yet achieved the status of the poor widow who "of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had." (Luke 21:4) Maybe we should measure charitable generosity not so much by how much is given, but by how much is kept back.