Government's new clothes

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  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 20, 2011 2:46 p.m.

    KM, Cloward, and Pivens plan was to overwhelm the social saftey net not the entire nation. You can keep saying it but it isn't true.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 20, 2011 2:22 p.m.

    The inexperienced guy got Bin Laden and Gadafi. Cheney got a large contract for Haliburton.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Oct. 20, 2011 1:22 p.m.

    Hellooo says:

    "Thank you for neither mentioning a party or a particular politician, even if some commenters have inferred you were directing your comments towards the current President. "


    From the Letter:

    "This is what has happened in the American political system with PRESIDENT OBAMA and other lifetime politicians."


    Did you even read the letter?

    BOTH parties are guilty and they're all nekkid.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 20, 2011 9:20 a.m.

    Unfortunately, Karen nobody is hearing the child. Too many partisans standing up to protect "their" partisan politician to hear the general truth of your article. Thank you for neither mentioning a party or a particular politician, even if some commenters have inferred you were directing your comments towards the current President. Guess if a general statement fits, then the mere fact partisans stand up to protect their politician indicates something in the comment applied to that favorite partisan politician.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Oct. 20, 2011 7:43 a.m.

    Karen, this started looooonnnnnnggg before the current administration took office.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 10:59 p.m.

    pragmatistforlife 7:58

    We will have to agree to disagree. I firmly believe that the statements made by this administration and its allies about destroying the dollar (georgie soros) is serious. If and when they accomplish this goal, will our nation be crushed by debt? We borrow .40 of every dollar...doesn't that call for concern?
    Also, Cloward and Piven had a plan, a marvelous plan, to destroy our current system and replace it with a marxist utopia. They planned on doing this by overwhelming the system by putting so many on welfare that it would colapse. I thin that this plan is in effect at the moment. I think they are getting close to the dream they invisioned. Praise Barry and the rest...

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 9:42 p.m.

    Let's vote for romney! That'll show those career politicians!!

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Oct. 19, 2011 7:18 p.m.


    Maybe we are finally getting closer to agreement. You write

    "Ok liberals who automatically blame everything on Bush.

    Answer this simpe question. Other than the magnitude of spending, what has Obama done differently than Bush?"

    This is the point I have been trying to make since I first posted.

    There is NOT a huge difference between R and D control. Yes, some differences, but not huge.

    I sound "liberal" because most of my points (many to you) only point out that the R's do very similar things as the D's.

    Yes, there are "liberals who automatically blame everything on Bush"

    If you look back, you will find that I am not one of them.

    And there are certainly a slew of conservatives who believe that Obama caused everything wrong with this country, including bad breath.

    I don't tout the greatness of the dems. They have countless failings. But, I will point out the failings of the GOP when people unfairly blame them for all the countries problems.

    Time and time again, I have said that both parties got us in this mess.

    Give me Clinton and a GOP congress.

    What above do you disagree with.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 6:23 p.m.


    If you don't wish to see politicians in the buff, I would suggest you avoid the nudist colony known as the Utah State Legislature.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 19, 2011 5:41 p.m.

    Why are the democrats trying to divert attention away from Mr. Obama? When Mr. Obama has signed into law legislation that increases the DEFICIT more than $4,100,000,000 per DAY, and when Mr. Obama wants to add another $500,000,000,000 to the deficit NOW and pay it off "someday", long after he's out of Washington, can any thinking adult really claim that he has a clue about running a Country?

    He is not only walking around without any clothes but those who advise him are just as naked as he is.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 5:33 p.m.


    "Again, can a liberal actually show me where Bush and Obama are are really that different?"

    Yeah - you voted for Bush - twice. Am I right? He was YOUR party's choice for President. You seem to duck and ignore that very fact.

    The biggest difference is that I've never heard President Obama use the oxymoron "compassionate conservatism."

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 4:16 p.m.

    To "LDS Liberal | 2:54 p.m." let me say it again, maybe all caps will help.


    Bush wanted to kill Osama.

    Bush deported illegal immigrants. Plus, Obama has admitted that his "increased" numbers is a fallacy because it counts catch-and-turn-back at the border as a deportation.

    Bush signed a deal with Iraq for exiting there before Obama took office.

    So you are saying that Obama also believe in "Drill, Baby Drill", just like Bush.

    BP happened under Obama, so that point is moot.

    Bush cancelled the Shuttle program. So, both have cancelled NASA heavy lift vehicles.

    Bush also provided increased healthcare to millions of underinsured individuals.

    Again, tell me where they are different, outside of the magnitude of their spending.

    To "Mark B | 3:17 p.m." don't feel bad I didn't address your list too, but your list is essentially the same, with a few added policies that are the same as what Bush did.

    Again, can a liberal actually show me where Bush and Obama are are really that different?

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Oct. 19, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    RedShirt would just bicker with the following, but here's a list of what he demanded:
    No more prisoner torture, including water-boarding.
    An end to the combat role in Iraq.
    bin Laden now only a threat in dreams.
    Change from massive layoffs at end of GWB administration to adding jobs month to month.
    Appointment to SCOTUS of justices who MIGHT know a poor person.
    Military interventions quick - and POSITIVE.
    Attention to health care needs OTHER than "I got mine, Jack."
    Relationships with allies overall improved. Israel not allowed to dictate future decisions.
    Cheney now safely out of office.
    FEMA doing its job successfully.
    DADT removed from the military.

    A footnote: Wouldn't you have to know someone personally to know if they are "egocentric" or "narcissistic"? As for "blunders", I cannot think of one greater than invading a country by mistake, unless it's invading the wrong country ON PURPOSE.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 2:54 p.m.

    RedShirt | 2:39 p.m. Oct. 19, 2011
    USS Enterprise, UT
    Ok liberals who automatically blame everything on Bush.

    Answer this simpe question. Other than the magnitude of spending, what has Obama done differently than Bush?


    Killed Osama Bin Laden.
    Deported more Illegal Aliens.
    Pulling us OUT of the middle East.
    Increase Domestic drilling of oil.
    Did NOT apologize to BP for the mess they made in the Gulf of Mexico.
    Cancelled the Aries Program that NASA didn't even want.
    Provided access to Healthcare to those who have been denied coverage.

    Shall I go on? [I'm limited to 200 words.]

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 2:39 p.m.

    Ok liberals who automatically blame everything on Bush.

    Answer this simpe question. Other than the magnitude of spending, what has Obama done differently than Bush?

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 1:15 p.m.

    Washington is corrupt, The new emperor is like the old emperor. Partisians claim it's about the other party not their's. No the truth is both. Obama is just the current egocentric, narsistic, blunderer. We hoped for change from the last egocentric, narsistic, blunderer, and we got nothing better. Champion which ever emperor you want, but they are naked and, I am doubtful we will get anything new in the next round.

  • isrred Logan, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 12:09 p.m.

    "President Obama and other lifetime politicians"

    Wow, really? How about Orrin Hatch who has been in the Senate since Obama was in HIGH SCHOOL?

    Obama has only been a national politician for 6 years! That's the equivalent of one senate term! That's hardly "life long". Oh, but you were probably also of the crowd that said he didn't have enough "experience", right?

  • Independent Woman West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 11:49 a.m.

    Karen, Lifetime politicians? As others have stated, there are so many more of these than Obama. And I too thought this was a very apt description of Dubba.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 10:37 a.m.

    "When Obama spends money we don't have the taxpayers have to pay the interest on it."

    Yes, debt requires interest payments. This is news to you?

    Who decided it was a good idea to start two wars _and_ cut taxes? In what universe is that an exercise in fiscal responsibility?

    More to the point, you at least make a specific point about the deficit. The original letter is totally devoid of a specific complaint.

    Sure, I disagree with you on the cause, significance, and possible solutions to the size of our national debt, but at least you bothered to list a topic to complain about.

    The letter is a complete waste of space - it offers nothing of value.

    Is merely saying "I don't like so-and-so!" really all it takes to get a letter published in this paper?

    What is asserted without evidence can and should be dismissed without evidence.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 19, 2011 10:01 a.m.

    Re: Blue | 12:17 a.m. Oct. 19, 2011
    "Any specific examples?"

    People who depend on payday loan stores to get them through the week must pay the money back at high rates of interest. The money these people throw away in interest could be put to better use buying food for their children.

    When Obama spends money we don't have the taxpayers have to pay the interest on it. That money could be better spent developing energy.

    Of course Obama comes from Illinois where they are drowning in red ink and can't pay their bills.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 9:48 a.m.

    I thought this was the made up story about King George and his "Weapons of Mass Destruction" and all his kingdom's rubes going along him and his war....

    and the little known Senator from Illinois who stood up called his bluff, and later took his place as President.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 8:37 a.m.

    "Remember the story of the emperor's new clothes? The emperor was so busy (playing golf, vacationing, etc.), and he was so inexperienced that he totally believed his tailors' lying rhetoric about the golden clothes being sewn for him."

    No Karen, Bush isn't President anymore.

    Come on, get with the times!

  • Ralph West Jordan Taylorsville, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 7:59 a.m.

    The author is right! The politicians are parading around the country. We see them gathered together about every two weeks jockying for our attention and showing off their attire and manicured nails. And like the author describes, we the silent majority look on with horror as they babble the same rhetoric with "no answers or substance". And yes at the end of each mind numbing Republican debate we "yell loudly" Look "the wanna be emperors are naked". What a great analogy! Thanks for bringing it to our attention Karen!

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 19, 2011 7:58 a.m.

    KM, once again let me point out the non-sequetor nature of your premise, that the national deficit is the root of all our troubles. A process, or activity can be non-sustaiable without crushing the system it operates in. Your car cannot run for ever on a single tank of gas, yet it's not crushing your car, it's simply non-sustainable.

    Liberals, agree the deficit is not sustainable, but at present it is not crushing the cost very little for America to borrow, and Americas debt is still swooped up by investors, so we're hardly being crushed.

    The nation was nearly crushed but it wasn't from the federal deficit, and thus my concern about your comments. You divert the conversation from the real issues by simplyfying the situation to a single issue.

    PS, Piven didn't ever propose we bury the nation in debt to bring America to it's knees. Piven and Cloward were only concerned about the welfare system, and their desire for a national minimum income.

  • Baron Scarpia Logan, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 7:23 a.m.

    It wasn't until the third paragraph that I saw this writer was talking about Obama -- I thought it was about Bush or the GOP in Congress. How they cut taxes, sent our troops to Iraq, de-regulated Wall Street, and spent like drunken sailors, sending our economy into a tailspin.

    Today's GOP congress and presidental candidates all appear to be "naked." They deny climate change (thus, they're anti-science). They claim to want to balance the budget, but refuse to eliminate subsidies for oil and fossil fuels (thus, they're for the status quo of energy that hurts the vast lower and middle classes). They've voted against a jobs bill full of GOP proposals (thus, their willing to continue America's high unemployment to try to hurt Obama politically).

    These emperors have no clothes.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 7:16 a.m.


    The evidence is that we are being crushed by unsustainable debt. The plan has almost been realized. Just stick around a little longer and you won't be asking foolish questions like are there any "specific examples?"

    Karen may have voted for that certain other president, but tell me...what other choice did she have? Yes the fix is in, we have a one party system pretending to be a two party system.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 6:51 a.m.

    Gosh, Karen, I don't remember the story as you told it. Yes, it's just a story. Fiction, made up, not really true.

    I wonder if your fiction applies to Orrin Hatch, who has been around for decades. Or how about Mitt Romney, who according to another Republican, was liberal in his Senate race, moderate in his gubernatorial race and wants us to think he is a conservative now. What are his ideas? And how about the people, perhaps like you, who say they want change but won't allow it. They oppose campaign finance, Wall Street and other reforms because the rich tell them it is bad. So we get the same in Washington (and in Utah's capitol) where the privileged few control things and the rest of us get to pay for it. Then when someone comes along who wants to change things, he is demonized and fought every step of the way, by you, too.

    Yours is nothing but a partisan rant. I would bet the house you were perfectly satisfied during the last Administration which nearly destroyed this nation in several ways.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Oct. 19, 2011 6:11 a.m.

    Well Karen, maybe your implication is true, but the clothes didn't just recently come off.

    The problem is that partisan people only notice the problems of the "other" party.

    What is happening now that wasn't happening before?

    Oct. 19, 2011 5:37 a.m.

    I remember reading a whole lot of letters like this about a certain two-term president that started two ridiculous wars, began the federal unfunded spending spree, and was in power for the 7 years prior to the economic collapse. From the tenor of your letter, I am guessing that you voted for him. So, whose use of this stereotypical Emperor has no Clothes analogy is correct?

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 12:17 a.m.


    Is there any substance to this letter's complaint? Any specific examples? Any objective data?