Anti-Mormonism: 'the prejudice of our age'

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  • JimB LEHI, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 8:24 p.m.

    With all due respect to anyone reading this, I could not read the article because the title was too over-the-top. I could not look around me at all the prejudice still in the world--and among our own people, and argue that anti-Mormonism is the prejudice of our age? Is anyone seriously going to argue such a point? The title speaks of the ego-centrism, self-importance, and increasing defensiveness I am witnessing among so many of my LDS loved ones and friends. Really! Really, is this title to be taken seriously, never mind what the article may say? If we believe this title (our own self-described persecution) as Mormons, we need to get out of the salt bottle more and really become the salt of the earth! We are spending way too much time in our own bottle! Just saying....let's get over ourselves and just be who we are. Let our example of love shout louder than the ignorance of any critic! Seriously! Let's get over ourselves!

    Oct. 28, 2011 11:08 p.m.

    Brahmabull, "anything that comes from that man to us (the world) is from God."
    He did not say everything that he says is from God. Everything that he announces to the world as a whole, is from god. It isn't doctrine when he says "Pass the salt." at the dinner table.

  • 2funny midvale, utah
    Oct. 25, 2011 6:18 p.m.

    Penny 4 your thoughts and Munk

    I would like to define a Christian to you. Holy Bible. Ephesians 2: 5-8 By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is a gift of God.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 16, 2011 8:12 a.m.

    @Jeff..... Charles comments are hardly unique to our faith. We are not as different from other faiths as we like to think. Yes, there are some very unique attributes to our faith, but there are far more areas we have in common. And we are hardly alone in being judged of other Christian faiths. Even Evangelicals have plenty who would not vote for them purely driven by their faith.

    People judging others for what ever reason has been around for a really long time. The level of prejudice we face today is a far cry from that which our ancestors suffered. Our protestations I think would find a hard time receiving much sympathy from those who came before us. We enjoy a seat at the table in most every aspects of life today. We live in a time we should be most thankful that we enjoy such freedoms to practice out faith as we like, and when we like. We have fellow believers in positions of leadership in almost every aspect of our society.

    Lets not get all caught up in the ignorance of a few.

  • Ecclesiastes 10:2 PROVO, UT
    Oct. 15, 2011 10:18 p.m.

    "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

    "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

    Whether you're religious or not, Mormon or not, these are good sayings to live by.

    Many of those on both sides of this debate have not been living up to either of these rules, laws, policies, suggestions, or whatever you want to call them.

  • Jeff Temple City, CA
    Oct. 15, 2011 6:08 p.m.

    @ Brahmabull: Why are you arguing the infallibility of the Journal of Discourses? Do you really believe in it that much? Do you wish that Latter-day Saints regarded the J of D as infallible? Are you disappointed that we don't? It seems very important to you that we accept it that way.

    You ought to know that "everything the prophet says" has not been accepted as doctrinal since the days of Joseph Smith. Joseph himself tried to convince people that everything he said was not to be accepted as doctrine.

    Feel free to disbelieve it all if you want. Why waste your time arguing with us about what Latter-day Saints believe? We have a well-established line of authority that we follow; we are consistently taught the doctrines of the Church; we believe it. You don't; you therefore needn't worry about it unless you have ulterior motives.

  • Jeff Temple City, CA
    Oct. 15, 2011 6:01 p.m.

    I join with @Charles in the assertion that it is possible to communicate with and personally know Jesus Christ. He is not alone in this.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Oct. 15, 2011 9:35 a.m.

    Bill - so you are saying that everything that a prophet says is doctrine then right?? So it was doctrine when Wilford Woodruff stated that "Many sitting in the congregation today will stand in the flesh when the Lord Jesus Christ visits the Zion of God here in the mountains of Israel." ?

    The journal of discourses is only as much second hand knowledge as any other source. Are you aware that during the talks they had a scribe record exactly what the prophets and apostles said?? That is as reliable as any other source that you can come up with.

    You state that you cannot find the transcript of President Hinckley saying that polygamy is not doctrinal. Well if you can't find it, you aren't looking very hard. Which doesn't surprise me.

    As far as Rockwell goes, I was only saying what I said because apparantly you have judged him as well - stating he was righteous enough in this life to be able to preach the gospel to others in the spirit world. You did not walk the earth with him either, that is why I found your statement rediculous. You have only second hand knowledge of him as well....

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Oct. 14, 2011 5:41 p.m.

    Brahmabull: You are totally wrong. I have never stated that it is opinion however, it is quite well noted that the Journal of Discourses that many use as words from the prophets and others is SECOND HAND KNOWLEDGE. Secondly, you have already become judge, jury and executioner for Porter Rockwell. How can you justify that since you were not living at the time he lived and have nothing to go on except second hand knowledge. What I have quoted most often has come from Talks during gneral conference, ENSIGN articles and the such. Only on one occassion have I used to Journal of Discourses as a point of reference. It was Idaho Coug who has insinuated that it is opinion not revelation. I only stated to him that he was taking it solely as opinion. You on many occassions always state it as opinion. I have used Mormon Doctrine as a point of reference when it coincides with the doctrine taught in the Priesthood, Relief Society, Sunday School and by the Missionaries. You however, constantly badger others for their use and then cite a interview by President Hinkley.

    I have yet to find your quote by him anywhere.

  • als Atheist Provo, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 4:44 p.m.

    Castle path,

    Please tell me what I believe about Santa, Bigfoot, elves, and leprechauns while you are at it.

    Why are religionists so presumptuous?

    MY atheism IS simply a lack of any belief in any God's. MY atheism IS NOT merely naturalism.

    You are not a spokesperson for atheism, so you cannot say anything legitimate about atheism. Indeed, atheism has NO authorized spokesperson.

    People who try to make atheism into a religion are the worst kind of bigots, stereotyping others based on what they DO NOT believe. That is the most ridiculous thing anyone can do.

    Shall we call you a member of a "religion" based on the fact that you do NOT believe in the flying spaghetti monster!?

  • davidutefan Evanston, WY
    Oct. 14, 2011 3:39 p.m.

    If you think that's bigotry, speak to my gay friends that would like to get married.

  • JM Lehi, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 2:00 p.m.

    If what Mormons "really believe" is found anywhere, it is found in the Book of Mormon:

    "12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good"

  • JM Lehi, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 1:54 p.m.

    There are many ways to justify hate. Some gays use prop08, but some gays were protesting against LDS when I was a kid, and I felt the hatred, and most Americans oppose gay marriage, but don't reap the hate.

    Others like to dig up quotes from early leaders (not usually Paul, Peter etc, but later early leaders, such as Orson Pratt.)

    Almost every later leader has spoken words like these by Joseph Fielding Smith:

    It makes no difference what is written or what anyone has said, if what has been said is in conflict with what the Lord has revealed, we can set it aside. My words, and the teachings of any other member of the Church, high or low, if they do not square with the revelations, we need not accept them. Let us have this matter clear. We have accepted the four standard works as the measuring yardsticks... If Joseph Fielding Smith writes something which is out of harmony with the revelations, then every member of the Church is duty bound to reject it. If he writes that which is in perfect harmony with the revealed word of the Lord, then it should be accepted.

  • JM Lehi, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 1:43 p.m.

    I believe that evangelicals, in general, are Christian, and I love them.

    Sadly, some people are admittedly trained to post anti-Mormon propaganda on the DN and elsewhere, justifying hatred.

    There are also many anti-Mormon websites claiming to teach us what Mitt Romney and all Mormons "really believe." Several of these quote Orson Pratt on Babylon (editing and leaving out his reference to John). Ive oft discussed the semi-quotes posted by DN Evangelicals and anti-Mormon gay Atheists etc (creed tortures etc)but not the Pratt quote.

    Saying Mitt and Mormons believe something because someone LDS (including O.Pratt, BY etc) said it is as unfair as saying present day Mormons all believe Gentiles are unclean because their early Prophet, Peter believed it (before his vision); that all Protestants "really believe" Catholicism is an "abomination" and "blasphemy," "works" centered, etc because Luther said it; that all Protestants hate Jews and LDS because they raped and sought extermination, etc.

    Many opinions are given, and LDS Presidents have clarified that the Abominable Church is not Catholics and Protestants. The BofM definition is those torturing, attacking, etc the Saints. It could be some Atheists, some gays, some Catholics, some Mormonsetc.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Oct. 14, 2011 1:19 p.m.

    Bill: your continuous cirles of logic confuse me. In one breath you say things like:

    "anything that comes from that man to us (the world) is from God. It doesn't matter whether God said says it himself, his son says it or his servants it is still the same voice whether the Father says it or not."

    so you just said that ANYTHING that comes from the prophet is the word of god. Then in another breath, when I present something from a prophet that conflicts what you say, you give it the old "that was opinion" line. So which is it, bill?? You contradict yourself by the things you say, you twist your words, you only use prophets quotes when it benefits you, and when it doesn't it is opinion. It doesn't make sense. Then you say:

    "Both Joseph Smith and Porter would be vigilant members of the Church. They are currently on the otherside of the veil teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the dead"

    As if you somehow know what they are doing on the other side, since Porter Rockwell was fond of drinking you seem to think he is righetous still?? Doesn't make sense.

  • Sooner-Ute BROKEN ARROW, OK
    Oct. 14, 2011 12:12 p.m.

    I'm so tired of the, "are Mormons Christians or Cultists" debate! Clearly traditional "Christians" place greater worth on their Nicene, Apostolic, Athanasian, and other creeds, than they do on any of the words spoken by the Christ. Therefore, from now on, I will be referring to Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox believers as "Creedists" and NOT as Christians.

  • Castlepath South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 10:09 p.m.

    Atheism is not just the lack of belief in a god, but the assertion about the non-existence of any gods, spirits, or divine or supernatural beings. Atheists in this sense are metaphysical naturalists, they DO follow a religion.

    Atheism shouldnt be taught or enforced in settings where other religions are banned and shouldnt be favoured by laws which imply a religiously neutral government.

  • als Atheist Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 9:19 p.m.

    Atheism is not religion.

  • Castlepath South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 9:01 p.m.

    "Stop playing the victim card, and get religion right out of politics."

    And that would include islam and atheism. If we're going to keep religion out of politics, keep it all out.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Oct. 13, 2011 4:50 p.m.

    To LaValfre: No I'm not owned and I agree with everything @Charles said. I also know that President Thomas S Monson is the Lord's mouthpiece here on Earth and anything that comes from that man to us (the world) is from God. It doesn't matter whether God said says it himself, his son says it or his servants it is still the same voice whether the Father says it or not. You don't have to believe it but it is true.

    If Joseph Smith was alive today he would have a temple recommend because he would follow the same criteria today as it was. You're basing something on 150 years ago not what is current. Both Joseph Smith and Porter would be vigilant members of the Church. They are currently on the otherside of the veil teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the dead as is Brigham Young, Adam, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Isaiah, and all the prophets from the beginning.

    My testimony and that of @Charles will be used against you at the judgement seat. That I know and have firm conviction of.

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 3:19 p.m.

    @Charles: Utah's drinking laws are based upon the will of the Church, and are hampering economic development. Nobody listens to the people anymore.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 2:52 p.m.

    @ClarkKent: What do you mean by communicate? Not knowing how you would answer that question I'll give a few thoughts towards it.

    I believe that God communicates with any individual on the planet who sincerely seeks Him. Thoughts, impressions, influence of the Holy Ghost are different ways He has communicated with me.

    I also believe that God has a prophet on the earth today, just like Moses, Adam, Noah and the others. I believe that God communicates to the world through His chosen prophet, Thomas Monson just like He did in previous dispensations.

    Do I believe that the head of any other church/religion is a prophet and can speak for God to the whole world? Nope.

    @DeltaFoxtrot: there is no such thing as separation of church and state. Every individual who has a political opinion brings their own belief structure to the table. It's impossible to leave it out of it. Atheists included.

    State/local laws are passed based on the will of the people in those areas. There are 50 states. If you want more liberal drinking laws, you are free to move to a city/state that agrees with your position. Or just complain.

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    @ludwig: You say church and state are separate entities. That's a great concept, but a person of faith is always going to let that faith influence their decisions... whether they admit it or not.

    I invite you to examine Utah's alcohol laws. Prime example for you.

  • ClarkKent Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:32 p.m.

    @Charles, I presume you do not believe that LDS are the only group of religious people on the earth that God currently communicates with. Please say it isn't so!

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:30 p.m.

    @Bill in Nebraska,

    You got owned. Your wrong, Brahma's right.


    "I know who Christ is and I know what His teachings are."

    You know him? You've met him personally? What's he look like? What does he believe in? He told you these things and what he teaches?

    "I accept Christ as my Savior and through Him I can return and live with Him and God again."

    What did he save you from? Why do you want to live with him and God after you die? How do you know that's possible? Return and live with him? So you've lived with (and met) Jesus Christ before?

    Charles, If what you're saying is true than you are the most important person in the world right now. Why would you ever follow Joseph Smith, a church, or any profit if you already have the contact and know the teachings?

    I'm in AWE right now that we have someone in here in contact with Jesus!

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:28 p.m.

    @ LDSareChristians, you totally missed the point. My point was just because there are some bad apples in every religion does not mean that the entire religion should be condemned. KM condemned an entire faith because of the actions of a few, which is wrong. Knee-jerk reactions to discussions about the Church often lead to irrational comments.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:25 p.m.

    @ O'really, as a descendent of John D. Lee, I will say that religion was a factor in MMM. There was no distinction between church, society and state in 19th Century Utah. Besides, your comment really misses the point of the discussion and is really a rationalization.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 12:45 p.m.


    I know who Christ is and I know what His teachings are. I accept Christ as my Savior and through Him I can return and live with Him and God again.

    Those who cry that the Book of Mormon is "adding" to the Bible have no understanding of how the Bible was put together.

    Those who cry that we have a Bible and don't need anything else are telling God that He can't talk to us again like in times past. Who are YOU to tell God that He can't do something if He so chooses. And can you sight the verse in the Bible that supports your claim?

    To those who claim the Trinity is Biblical and is like 3 forms of water, please answer these questions:

    Did Christ rise with a body of flesh and bone when He was resurrected? If so, does He still have that body? If not, where did it go?

    Why was the resurrection so important and why do we get a body, forever, and God doesn't?

    What will God look like when you get to heaven? How do you know?

    That's a good start....

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 12:36 p.m.

    @Brahmabull and Thinkman: While your questions and concerns might be relevant to you (both Non-LDS) they are irrelevant to salvation. The understanding about continuing revelation is a core belief of LDS.

    Would both of you say the the New Testament is irrelevant because it trumps the Old Testament? There are many who didn't agree with the "changes" made by Christ and ended up killing Him because they wanted to keep the status quo.

    @Ranch: Everything is always about your choice to leave the LDS church to more fully embrace your homosexuality. Because the LDS church doesn't accept your chosen behavior doesn't mean it is prejudice or bigoted. btw, the 2 words are not interchangeable.

    Many on here just don't get it and probably never will. LDS folks don't care if you disagree with our doctrines and quite frankly, I don't care if you don't include me in your man-made philosophy of who is or isn't a Christian.

    You need to learn how to differentiate your church principles/doctrines from what a Christian really is.

    Someone who follows Christ is a Christian.

  • goldfever St. George, U
    Oct. 13, 2011 12:11 p.m.

    @ Bill in Nebraska
    Stop making excuses for why the Church removes certain ordinances and why not. This is the same reason the church now allows blacks to serve as priesthood holders, the same reason the LDS church is no longer a polygamists church and the same reason we don't talk about them. Because in the 21st century its a Politically correct Church plain and simple. Joseph Smith wouldn't even be allowed to hold a temple recommend because he drank alcohol and Porter Rockwell was his bar tender in the mansion house. Truth hurts I know

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Oct. 13, 2011 11:43 a.m.

    To Brahmabull and Thinkman: Again I will not go into great detail here about the changes. The time was to allow the work to go faster and thus the changes. They removed those items that are not necessary for salvation. If you care to listen to the ordinances as they are now done you will find that the so called penalties and such are still RELEVANT.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Oct. 13, 2011 10:27 a.m.

    ill -

    "The reason they were removed is that they had little to do with the person's actual salvation"

    So why would something that had nothing to do with our salvation be in there in the first place? And I beg to differ, as you are not qualified to give the reasoning behind why they were removed, unless you have a quote/opinion of a general authority backing that up

    "They were removed for no other reason than for the sake of time."
    So first you said they were removed because they had nothing to do with salvation, now you say it was a time thing. So to trim a whole 1/2 hour off of the endowment they removed an essential part of it?? The quote I gave only took about 10 seconds to repeat, and the slashing of the throat things - well we know it wasn't for the "sake of time" that it was removed. Come on Bill, you honestly think that is a reasonable explanation. So why would god reveal a certain endowment ceremony first, then change it to make it faster by removing things HE put in it only a few years before?? Right.....

    Oct. 13, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    Dektol, from Powell,OH; 11:04am Oct 12,2011. I have been amemeber of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints all my life. I was baptised a member many years ago, back when they baptised children in the temple at the age of eight. I have seen different changes in the temple ceremonies and many years of temple attendance. NEVER has there ever been a denoucement of the US government in the ceremony or any government. Government has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the temple.
    If you think you know so much, read the Articles of Faith. They will tell you exactly what we believe. Read all the lies you want but don't tell me what goes on in the temple, I work there!

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    Bill in Nebraska,

    The temple ordinances have been changed multiple times even prior to the 1990 major change.

    There is a reason why there have been multiple changes to LDS church doctrines and ordinances and that reason it seems is to better "fit-in" to the mainstream of society and to appeal to a wider audience to gain more converts.

    These changes are well-documented in the BYU Harold B Lee library which is where I found out about them in 1992 while doing a senior paper on religious freedom as a foundational reason for the founding the USA. You likely can find the original ordinances changes(particularly the endowment and initiatory ordinances) by doing some searches on the internet.

    There was also a major change in 2005 that I witnessed in addition to the 1990 change. These changes were made it seems to take away some of the "harsher" and more intrusive actions that the pre-1990 endowment ordinance and pre-2005 initiatory ordinances contained. The changes make the temple to be more mainstream and seem less ritualistic or "weird" in the eyes of the world.

    If the LDS church is "true", why the need for changes?

  • Franjeado Lambare, Paraguay
    Oct. 13, 2011 8:23 a.m.

    Estoy sorprendido que configuren a la Iglesia, en terminos de minoria, con el Islamismo; La Iglesia de Jesucristo, no tiene nada que ver con los Musulmanes ni el Islamismo; es increible el preconcepto de la sociedad Norteamericana para con los Mormones; si llaman Culto a la religion centrada en una Persona, como queda El Catolicismo, con la figura de la Virgen Maria como simbolo de adoracion ?.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 7:53 a.m.

    Mormons, being anti civil rights, might have something to do with it. Also ignoring tough issues in it past only fuels the so-called "anti" fire.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Oct. 13, 2011 6:53 a.m.

    Brahmabull: I hate to differ with you on any part of the Temple ordinances. The reason they were removed is that they had little to do with the person's actual salvation. By the way Sharrona the Temple Endowment ordinances didn't change until the early 1990s. They were removed for no other reason than for the sake of time. The endowment session was taking up to two hours to complete. After these were removed it dropped it down to 1 1/2 hours. It has even changed a little more to be more acceptable to those with disabilities.

    Just because it was dropped from the ordinance does not MEAN it isn't still sacred. It is and shouldn't be discussed outside of the Temple. If you are discussing it as has been done then you are mocking God and the temple ordinance itself.

  • coreypaul BOSTON, MA
    Oct. 13, 2011 5:49 a.m.

    "This anti-Mormon bias is even higher statistically among Democrats than it is among Republicans" I doubt highly this is true. Ive live in Massachusetts and we are literally run by the Democratic Party, and Romney was elected Governor a few years back, we now have a black governor and many gay elected officials, from all religious backgrounds. That cannot be said for any more "conservative" or "Red" state in the USA.

  • tyndale1 Pullman, WA
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:59 a.m.

    Whether or not you agree with the teachings of the LDS Church, or whether or not those teachings were restored as a pure return to the Saviors Christianity that had been hijacked, or at the very least, had veered off course, are not the issue. The issue is whether or not these followers and ashearants are Christians. There really is no other way around it. This is The Church of Jesus Christ. It is not the Church of Mormon, or the Church of Joseph Smith. It is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    Now as members of this Church, we need to be more friendly and outgoing, and less mean. As we share our testimonies of this Good News with our neighbors, please be friends whether or not they likewise gain their own testimonies. DO not shun these wonderful non-members. There is already enough of that going around and we know how that feels.

  • SteveD70 PARK CITY, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:40 a.m.

    The last thing Mormons need is a martyr complex.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:37 p.m.

    @ Petra (6:27 p 10/11)

    Really? Maybe the "other" board is providing balance? It could be as Pagan @ 9:19 has implied this outlet creates the sensationalism?

    We all know what the end product of sensationalism is. This way majority demographc group gets to get on their moral high horse and play the victim; both of which they do so well.

    re: majmajor | 6:35 p.m. Oct. 11, 2011

    I don't disagree. Maybe, its just that humanity is psychologically stuck in Jr High where those perceived as different are shunned.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:28 p.m.

    Most of the LDS I know are open, loving people that get along with people of all faiths. There are some however that complain about tolerance but cannot stand any slight against the LDS Church.

    DO NOT dish out what you can't take, in fact, don't dish out any ill will if you are LDS. I teach my family that as LDS people and people of faith we must treat all others kindly, those with faith and those who chose not to. I encourage my fellow LDS to do that same and right any wrong you see other LDS people doing.

    I can point out one right away. I know some parents who will let their children only play with other LDS Children. This is not right, base it on the character of the friend. I grew up with LDS kids whose parents had this rule. Some of the LDS kids they let their kids play with were AWFUL kids who know how to act on Sundays and were rotten the rest of the week. Some of the best behaved kids I knew were not LDS.

  • whatnext Clearfield, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:02 p.m.

    The Atheist,

    "By that logic, if Mormons were truly happy they would not try to convert anyone else. Why are you so miserable."

    On the contrary, Mormons as a whole are a happy people who love the Lord and enjoy what life has to offer. The reason we do missionary work and try to convert others is because of the joy and happiness the gosple brings to our life and we want to share that feeling with the world. If you knew as we do that there is a God in Heaven who loves you and is all knowing and seeing. Who cares about you individually and wants to be a part of your life. That he sent his Son Jesus Christ to earth to atone for yours and my sins that we might have the oppertunity to return and live with Heavenly Father again. Don't you think that news would bring great happiness to all of Heavenly Fathers children. We do. That is why we go around doing missionary work, to bring this joyful news to everyone.

  • whatnext Clearfield, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:37 p.m.

    Hey thinkman,
    I just want to correct you on some of your miss conceptions. First off LDS members do have a deep devotion towards Joseph Smith because we believe that through him the Lord restored his church. But that by no means does not mean we believe in him as a Deity. If you refere to The 13 Articles of Faith you will find that the very frist one says "We beleive in God the Eternal Father and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. Know where will you find we beleive in Joseph Smith. We do believe he was a prophet of God and that through him the gospel of Jesus Christ was restored. This was done because many of the plain and simple truths of the gospel were lost over time due to the wickedness of mankind. LDS members only have faith in God our Eternal Father and His Son Jesus Christ. None else. For it through our Savior Jesus Christ whom the Father sent, that man can be saved. Ask any LDS and they will testify of these same truths.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:28 p.m.

    @ Speed_Altitude - 5:05pm Oct 12

    I addressed the elephant in my 12:58pm Oct 12 post.

    Thanks for adding to it.

  • brokenclay Scottsdale, AZ
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:18 p.m.

    Some statements by LDS apostles and prophets:

    "The gates of hell have prevailed and will continue to prevail over the Catholic Mother of Harlots, and over all her Protestant Daughters; . . . the apostate Catholic church, with all her popes and bishops, together with all her harlot daughters shall be hurled down to hell." -Orson Pratt

    "Every spirit that confesses that Joseph Smith is a Prophet, that he lived and died a Prophet and that the Book of Mormon is true, is of God, and every spirit that does not is of anti-Christ." -Brigham Young

    "If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth. . . . No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God." -Joseph Fielding Smith

    "[F]or they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'" -Joseph Smith

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:00 p.m.

    ksampow - The quote referred to about vengence agains the U.S. was a part of the temple ceremony prior to 1980. It is not sacred anymore because the church removed it. You can easily find the references to it, or just ask an old member of the church -

    "You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray, and never cease to pray, Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and your children's children unto the third and fourth generations."

    You see if you do just a little research you will find it, and I am surprised many members have no idea that this was in the ceremony, as well as the slashing of throats sign during it as well. I guess the revelation changed and all of the sudden these things were removed from the ceremony?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:38 p.m.

    Stop playing the victim card, and get religion right out of politics. It should be as repulsive to think of a candidates' religion as it is of their sex lives.

  • ludwig GREENVILLE, SC
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:23 p.m.

    First of all; the folks who are complaining about Romney's religious faith need to be kicked out of this country. CHURCH AND STATE ARE SEPERATE IN THIS COUNTRY and it has no place in politics or the running of the Government. I would hope that if Romney is elected he will do as John F. Kennedy did and not allow his faith to dictate his actions OR work in the Government and that means at times going against the tenants of his faith in a secular enviroment to pass laws et al that are in the best interest of the United States irregardless of the faith of its citizens or the lack of. This could, mean for instance, leaving Roe vs. Wade in place, approving equal rights bills that allow anyone to marry whom they please without regards to religion or gender or sexual orientation. Religous institutions have no right to tell the Government what its laws will or will not be and the same goes to Government inerference into Church affairs--within the bounds of Civil Law. DOWN WITH BIGOTRY AND SO CALLED CHRISTIANS who are little more that hypocrits.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:18 p.m.

    Re: Utes fan, Don't try to exclude the many favorable opinions of Mormons and Mormon leaders TODAY towards Christians and then include a few, isolated, non-doctrine opinions of decades ago. That is a flawed approach. Wrong.

    *Brigham Young and John Taylor were Mormon Prophets and anti-Christian. They cannot separate themselves from the concept in (1 Nephi 14:10) Behold there are save two churches only, the one is the church of the lamb, and the other is the church of the devil ;wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to the great church, which is the mother of abomination and she is the whore of all the earth.

    Also The mocking of non-Mormon preachers caused so much criticism that the Mormon leaders determined God wanted this sacred portion removed. It was on 4/10/1990.

  • Speed_Altitude Centerville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:05 p.m.

    Alright. Let's address the elephant in the room. I've read through a lot of these comments and still have not seen this subject brought up. If it has I apologize, but I believe the attacks on Mitt Romney or John Huntsman, because of them being a Mormon, is nothing more than the pastor protecting his INCOME. In the LDS church, the lay leadership of the church does not get paid. However, the Pastor Jeffress and others denounce Mormonism in order to protect their income generated from their congregations. It's called priest-crafts. Nothing more than protecting the old wallet. If he sees the LDS Church as a threat to his congregation (therefore his livelihood) it may explain his throwing around the negative words of "cult" and non-christian. Nothing more than a basic non-religious business decision driven by greed.

  • Palintram Holladay, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 4:45 p.m.

    HAH!!! I've had one continuous prejudice my entire life: that of a non-mormon in Utah. And don't waste your time telling me how accepting you all are. Expect to be ridiculed when you're ridiculous.

  • Mr. Bean Washugal, Wa
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:52 p.m.


    "The LDS church is built on the foundation of a man. That man is Joseph Smith."

    The LDS Church is built upon Christ as the chief cornerstone... as restored by a man, said Smith.

    "He is revered as much as and talked about as much if not more in monthly testimony meetings as Jesus Christ is."

    Probably revered similar to Moses by the Old Testament Jews.

    "The foundation of the LDS Church isn't Christ."

    How so? The word 'Christ' is in the name. All prayers are offered in the name of Jesus Christ.

    "Christ the foundation of the Methodists, Baptists, Catholics and other protestant faiths."

    Not so. The foundation of the Methodist Church is John and Charles Wesley. The foundation of the Baptists is John the Baptist. The foundation of the Catholics is the Pope. The foundation of Jehovah's Witnesses is Charles Taze Russell. The foundation of Christian Science is Mary Baker Eddy. Etc., etc.

    "For 'mainstream' Christianity, all you need is to believe in Christ."

    The Bible says: 'faith (belief) without works is dead.' So, if you just believe, you're dead.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:22 p.m.


    I'd give you a million recommendations If I could. If everyone took Lennon's words literally and gave that song a shot in their daily lives ... wouldn't the world be a wonderful place?

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:21 p.m.


    "Actually Mormonism is anti-Christian. A short list:
    JS said, all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were corrupt(JS History 1:19)"

    The word "creeds" is referring to traditional, incorrect beliefs of men (such as Trinity). It is NOT saying that JS or Mormons are anti-Christian, nor does it say that Mormon's view of all other Christian beliefs as corrupt. And "those professors" refers to the professors in JS's day that were actually rather unkind to JS. Again, it does NOT say that JS or Mormons are anti-Christian or that the Christian ministers of today are viewed by Mormons as corrupt. The other statements from the JoD are NOT doctrine and were the opinions of a few men of the day. Don't try to exclude the many favorable opinions of Mormons and Mormon leaders TODAY towards Christians and then include a few, isolated, non-doctrine opinions of decades ago. That is a flawed approach.

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:20 p.m.

    @ RanchHand
    Yeah and then there is the majority who were raised LDS who gain a testimony of truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and remain faithful members their entire lives. I mean studying all the great stuff thats on the internet thats created by men and women like you, will further your understanding right? I mean you lived back during the restoration and you know from fifth hand accounts whats true and not. I mean people dont make up stuff because of their bitterness and hatred towards the church. We need to start trusting people like you because you read up on the treasure huntin, womanizin, con artist ol Joe Smith was. We can all trust ranch hands he has done his research online and he has had read pamphlets!

  • Grace Bakersfield, CA
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:01 p.m.

    To The Deuce:

    I can factually answer your questions about temple endowment changes, but they won't pass censors. You have to go to sources of credible former Mormon scholars. I was an active LDS for 35 years, 7th generation, sealed in temple for 14 years. In 1991 all former so-called "blood oaths" were omitted. They were similar in content to Masonic oaths. Of course, as an LDS woman, I never knew (or cared) about this.

    This subject must be handled with absolute respect for the members of the church's most sacred ordinances. Neither would respectful persons trivialize Catholic mass or Muslim prayers in a public/secular forum. We do not show temple garments or reveal grips and endowment oaths in the classes we teach on the theological differences between Christian denominations at our (So. Baptist) church.

    I can tell you that without exception, in the 18+ years we have taught Bible studies at our church on this topic, everyone comes with a sincere interest in LDS teachings and only love and respect for their Mormon friends. We have LDS Institute directors, missionaries and elders who share with our classes to keep doctrinal accuracy. Akways good friendships and exchanges.

  • aumacoma SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:58 p.m.

    We all need to be very concerned about what is happening in America. All of this is precisely why our consitution says that politics and religion need to stay out of each others business.

    "When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross". Sinclair Lewis

    Imagine there's no Heaven
    It's easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today

    Imagine there's no countries
    It isn't hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace

    You may say that I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope someday you'll join us
    And the world will be as one

    John Lennon RIP

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man
    Imagine all the people
    Sharing all the world

    You may say that I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope someday you'll join us
    And the world will live as one

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:54 p.m.

    The LDS church is built on the foundation of a man. That man is Joseph Smith. He is revered as much as and talked about as much if not more in monthly testimony meetings as Jesus Christ is.

    Does that make the LDS church a cult? Not necessarily.

    The foundation of the LDS Church isn't Christ. Christ the foundation of the Methodists, Baptists, Catholics and other protestant faiths. The foundation of the LDS Church is the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith seeing God and Jesus Christ, a prophet who is God's mouthpiece today and temple ordinances necessary for salvation. Salvation in the Mormon vernacular is the Celestial Kingdom and the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom at that. You have to do all the work and then Christ may let you in. What is most important though isn't Christ's grace, but YOUR works. Anything less and you won't be saved and be in God's presence after death and a resurrection of your body.

    For "mainstream" Christianity, all you need is to believe in Christ.

    By the way, the LDS Church is a Christian faith.

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:46 p.m.


    "the Church does not need your respect or want it, so you have nothing to worry about"

    Why do missionaries come knocking on my door?

    "Is hating a organized religion logical or a preference? Hate is created through jealousy, ignorance, and truth."


    What I dislike (hate?) about the LDS Church is its elitism, arrogance and imperialism.

    The Church and its members believe and act as if they are "the one and only true and living Church on the face of the earth" (D&C 1:30) and treat all other religions as "abominations" and "all corrupt" (JS History) and "of the devil".

    "Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God and the other is the church of the devil" (1 Nephi 14:10)

    I am not like any atheist you have ever met. What someone does NOT believe can never be an indication of what they are like.

    "If you were truly happy with life you wouldnt waste your time trying to prove your logic to people."

    By that logic, if Mormons were truly happy, they would not try to convert anyone else. Why are you so miserable?

  • Munk Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:45 p.m.

    Ok a few points in my humble opinion:

    Missionaries. Ok.. so what? They are very polite and do not harass you. Oh, I am sorry is opening the door and saying no thank you or being polite in return that difficult? If I am going to base my opinion on the LDS church on them, well, then I am going to think that all members of the LDS are polite and courteous.

    Church and Politics: Religion has always been involved with politics regardless of any other laws and what have you. IF people are spouting negativity about a faith for the sole reason that presidential candidates are in the national eye, then that just shows the ignorance of the people.

    Those that say Mormons are not Christian? Define what is then. A belief in Jesus? Frankly I find Mormons more Christian than most.

    Prop 8 or whatever it was called? I think the main issue was the term "Marriage" not rights or civil unions.

    In other words... This is nothing new.

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:25 p.m.

    The anti-mormon sentiment is really a much smaller problem than it is made out to be.

    It took a Mormon running for President for people to even care one way or another.

    Everyone is getting bent out of shape over nothing.

    This nation is facing many more severe problems and here is the government and media again trying to distract the people with social issues.

    Wake up folks! America is going to hell in a handbasket and people want to argue about God, Guns and Gay Marriage.

  • IndependentLiberal Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:16 p.m.

    Following Joseph Smith's martyrdom, BY introduced an oath in the endowment which require swearing vengeance "upon this nation." It became the subject of a United States Senate Investigation.
    Reed Smoot, Mormon Apostle, Senator from Utah. In 1903 a protest was filed in the United States Senate to have Hon. Smoot removed from office, on the grounds that he had taken this treasonous oath in the endowment ritual. The record was published
    U.S. Senate Document 486 (59th Congress, 1st Session) Proceedings Before the Committee on Privileges and Elections of the United States Senate in the Matter of the Protests Against the Right of Hon. Reed Smoot, a Senator from the State of Utah, to hold his Seat . 4 vols .+1 vol. index] (Washington: Government Printing Office, 1906)

    The wording was as follows "You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children's children unto the third and fourth generation." This remained a part of the temple rituals until February 15, 1927.

  • LDSareChristians Anchorage, AK
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:13 p.m.


    Don't go there - it is a fruitless endeavor,

    The Savoir himself used "fruit" as a determining factor for finding the good.

    Are you one who'd throw out a bushel of Apples if you find even one bad one in the basket?

    If you were buying apples by the bushel, I'd hope you'd grab the basket that has the least number of or no bad apples in it.

    I believe the LDS church is that basket with the least number of bad apples.

    A common problem today is that many people are misled into seeing a basket full of bad apples, when the real basket of LDS apples are hidden away (for a variety of reasons).

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:04 p.m.


    As a matter of fact, Joseph Smith did break a number of laws (banking, anti-free-press).

    Delving into any religion's origins, including Mormon origins, leads one to the conclusion they're all simply made up by powerhungry men.

    @Penny 4 Thought;

    You'd be surprised how many of us were raised LDS. Deciding to leave the church included a lot more study about the church than you're likely to ever get at church. ;]

  • penny 4 thoughts SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    Being anti-Mormon is not disagreeing with Mormon theology. Many, many people disagree with our theology without becoming anti-Mormon. Being anti-Mormon is just that: a person who actively seeks to distort and demonize our doctrines, make fun of things that are sacred to us, and who spread false things about Mormonism --especially when they have a personal 'issue' with the church. They seem to go out of their way to put down Mormons and call them a 'cult' (all religions, by definition, are a cult)and deny us the name of Christians simply because 'they believe in a different Jesus than we do.' The Jesus we believe in is the Biblical one, not the one that was invented several hundred years later and was then agreed upon by a bunch of politically-minded men. By trying to exclude Mormons from Christianity, which is defined as being a follower of Christ, those who do this are, by their actions, anti-Mormon.

  • Jo Momma CEDAR CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 1:26 p.m.

    The last I checked, Mormons didn't fly planes in to the world trade towers. They didn't bomb American ships in Yemen either. If Catholics did those things I wouldn't vote for them either. I can go on and on but you get the point.

  • The Deuce Livermore, CA
    Oct. 12, 2011 1:02 p.m.

    To: Dektol | 11:04 a.m. Oct. 12, 2011 Powell, OH - I am interested as to where you got your information about your comment: "An Oath of Vengeance against the US was part of the Temple ritual for a long time". As a non-member of the LDS faith, I have never heard such a thing and from the LDS members I know, they show the exact opposite of this regarding our country. I have never been in the LDS temple so my knowledge of their ceremonies is lacking. Your other comment: "Not to mention belief in fairy tales and an ever changing reality", is also something I am interested in and would like more clear information as to what you are referring to. Again, the LDS members that I know and have known in my professional life do not come across as you describe. I would like to know if this is your biased opinion or do you have some solid information to share.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:58 p.m.

    C'mon everyone. We all know about the elephant in the room: missionary work by the LDS church.

    If Mormons didn't go around converting parishioners from other religions, those religions wouldn't have such a distaste for Mormons.

    Each pastor/minister who's lost members to the LDS church has a great hate for Mormons. That'll continue unabated as the church won't halt missionary work just to appease.

    Mormons have achieved political office in many high levels of government. The Presidency of the U.S. isn't out of reach.

    Distaste for Obama's foolery will get the southern religious conservatives out to vote for Romney, should he get the Rebplican nomination.

  • DaveRL OGDEN, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:48 p.m.

    Good article, I think the comments made by Pastor Jeffress speaks volumes about the direction the GOP is headed. Tolerance & understanding would go a long way in this day & age.

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:28 p.m.

    @ ClarkKent
    You got a point if you were a so called Christian all you need to do is read the New Testament and do your best to follow Christ's example. Being called Christian means nothing to me on the other hand being a disciple of Jesus Christ has a lot more meaning.

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:23 p.m.

    There is a difference between personal animosity and intellectual dialogue containing disagreement. It is true that, just as some Mormons want nothing more than to ridicule and insult those with whom they disagree, others outside the religion have done the same. This is wrong and always will be wrong. Just what is an anti-Mormon? If a person with a different faith or belief is an 'anti-Mormon' for sharing his faith or beliefs with a Mormon, am I to assume that when a Mormon shares his faith with other groups they are anti-Muslim, anti-atheist, and so forth? Am I to assume that when the Mormon missionary comes to the door of an atheist they too must be anti-atheist? So....any disagreeing group is labeled an "anti-Mormon" for sharing what they believe to be true with LDS, but LDS are not ANTI- for sharing what they believe to be true with disagreeing groups. This is not consistent. The continuous use of the phrase "anti-Mormon" by Mormons only inflames rather than helps people to understand you better! The problem with many Mormons is that they incorrectly define disagreement as hatred, bigotry, or prejudice.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:17 p.m.

    @penny 4 thoughts

    "I find it interesting that people who are anti-Mormon get all their information from anti-Mormon sources without bothering to study Mormonism itself."

    Much of the Anti-Mormon literature is just old doctrines and words spoken from the prophets. It's Mormon literature! It's just considered Anti-Mormon now since you don't accept it anymore. You pick and choose what prophets words you can accept and the rest is 'erased' from LDS history the best the church can ... You want the truth, you can't handle the truth!

    "Why is anti-Mormonism still so rampant? Why is it tolerated and encouraged by those who, again, know nothing about real Mormon theology?"

    When they present to you the 'Mormon truth' you deny it as anti-mormon and disregard it, even though it's all old Mormon doctrine before modern revelations and revisions. Maybe they know more about the Mormon theology than you do?

    Our minds often only hear what we want to hear. : (

  • penny 4 thoughts SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:08 p.m.

    @atl134: Why not consult Mormon historian Jan Shipps who is a non-Mormon and has done extensive study of the Mormon culture as well? If you are looking for non-biased information about Mormonism it is out there, but anti-Mormons rather believe what they want to believe and still are so afraid of the Book of Mormon that one person I know actually stomped up and down on it. Talk about lack of respect and anti-Mormon sentiment. What would have happened if this had happened to the Koran in public? Instead, anti-Mormons display very sacred things to Mormons and make fun of them. I ask again, why the emphasis on all things Mormon instead of preaching, say, Christian love for one another? I don't think you are qualified to guesstimate how much time evangelicals spend on anti-Mormonism unless you have attended all their churches. I have a former-Baptist-turned-Mormon friend who told me just how pervasive this practice is. Classes are held on it! How Christian are those who preach hatred and prejudice? Christ never set this example. P.S. - I don't listen to conservative radio hosts because they are so one-sided.

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:07 p.m.

    @Pete "What if the candidate were Mormon and believed the only marriages that were valid were performed in LDS Temples?"

    That's not even what LDS believe. Marriages outside the temple are valid. They just end at death rather than lasting into eternity.

    @ alt123 I obviously haven't been to every evangelical church in the nation, but I've seen books on coffee tables and in "Christian" bookstores- whole books on why Mormonism is wrong. I have friends who have listened to entire sermons on the evils of Mormonism. There is a huge yellow van with Anti-Mormon statements printed on the side that drives around Nauvoo. That's a bucketload more than 1-2 casual 30 second references. Loud minority? Maybe but they are loud and obnoxious. Honestly- what's the point? I'm puzzled. What are they so afraid of that they need to tear down the LDS church? What is motivating them? What do they stand to gain from it? How is the LDS church hurting them? Have they ever really studied Mormon doctrine in depth? Have they prayed about it? Is it so impossible that God appeared to Joseph Smith? Any more impossible than stories in the Bible?

  • ClarkKent Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:00 p.m.

    johnnylingo62 | 11:49 a.m. Oct. 12, 2011
    Gray, TN
    So, if Christians would spend some time truly understanding the origin of their current church......The idea of a Christian is one who tries to follow the example of Christ... :"

    @johnny, I just quoted part of what you said. But why do you think it is important for Christians to spend time "truly understanding" the origin of their current church if their current church is trying to follow the example of Christ? Did Christ's message include that people should go and do the geneology of the origins of their church, or did Christ's message say to love one another?

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:58 a.m.

    @The Atheist
    Here is one for you, the Church does not need your respect or want it, so you have nothing to worry about. I am glad you need to explain your logical point of view of things when at the same time blatantly admit hating others. Is hating a organized religion logical or a preference? Hate is created through jealousy, ignorance, and truth. Being prejudiced flaws whatever logic your trying to prove. Your biased due to the fact in what you believe, your opinion is not fact. Every atheist I have met hates truth when they find it and will do their best to make everyone around them as miserable as they are. Your post proves my point you are negative person who uses logic to explain your hatred when hate is not logical. Your free to believe in nothing thats your choice, as for those who believe in deity or whatever they want to for that manner have the same rights as you. If you were truly happy with life you wouldnt waste your time trying to prove your logic to people. I dont hate you, I only feel bad for you.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:50 a.m.

    "Understanding the reality of Mormonism tells me that no lds member should ever be elected to public office. Their allegiance is to their Church, not to their nation. "

    And yet Reid, Udall, Bennett, Hatch, Huntsman, and Romney do not seem to bear that indication in their elected history. Heck, I'm pretty sure you didn't even know there was a Democratic Party Udall in the senate who is LDS.

    (Note: there are two Udalls in the senate; Tom Udall of NM is LDS and a first cousin of Mark Udall of CO who is not; incidentally Tom Udall is also a second cousin of Mike Lee of Utah who is LDS, and yes this basically means one extended family has three senators in it).

  • johnnylingo62 Gray, TN
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:49 a.m.

    ... continued
    So, if Christians would spend some time truly understanding the origin of their current church, they may find that the "mormons" are definitely unique by way of origin and doctrine, but also VERY similar in their devotion to God (Heavenly Father), His Son (Jesus Christ) and our Savior. They will find a family centered gospel and people that want to serve and help each other be the best person they can be; and provide humanitarian aid to all, and comfort the sorrowful, and heal the sick.... The idea of a Christian is one who tries to follow the example of Christ... and it's not a textbook definition that theologians concocted to alienate, divide and create contention among God's children. We are all brothers and sisters - there really isn't any hierarchy except God is our Father and Christ is our older brother... the rest of us are all brothers and sisters.

  • payara OREM, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:46 a.m.


    since you are so good at telling us what we believe in. Would you be so kind as to tell us what you believe in.

  • RevCouncil Georgia, Georgia
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:43 a.m.

    Also, lest we forget, anti-African-American prejudice remains unrelenting even though the topic is mormon prejudice. But all who abide in Jesus Christ have no room for prejudice, nor bigotry in any form. I was a Utah resident for 34 years and many of my trusted colleagues were mormoms. Hence, who was I to be prejudiced against mormons? Again, anyone who abides in Christ Jesus has no room for prejudice whether the prejudice issue is described in the authors books or no.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:42 a.m.

    "What if the candidate were Mormon and believed the only marriages that were valid were performed in LDS Temples?"

    That belief has no relevance in the political scheme of things.

    @penny 4 thoughts
    "Why do evangelical churches spend so much time preaching and teaching against Mormons instead of preaching their own religion?"

    They don't spend any significant amount of time on it. I bet on average most evangelical churches have nothing more than a mere 1-2 casual 30 second references to the LDS church a year.

    "If you are getting your information from anti-Mormons, it is like asking Palestinians about the Jews. "

    Or consulting conservative radio hosts as to Obama's policy positions for that matter. Now I'm sure you're thinking Obama's campaign team would not be 100% honest and would present things that are only beneficial to them. Okay... but that applies to religion true. Each church is biased in favor of itself. It's certainly not a good idea to trust anti-whatever sites without question, but it's not exactly a good idea to trust pro-whatever sites without question either.

  • ksampow Farr West, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:40 a.m.

    @Dektol - Speaking of "fairy tales" - an oath of vengeance against the U.S. was NEVER part of the LDS church. "We believe in ..obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law" and always have. If your claim was true, the Nauvoo legion would have massacred the mob who killed Joseph Smith. He went to the Carthage jail peacefully, though he had broken no laws. A lawless mob stormed the jail and killed Joseph Smith and his brother.

  • johnnylingo62 Gray, TN
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:40 a.m.

    One of the problems with people's stance against Mormons is because most have never questioned or delved into the beginnings or establishment of their own church or beliefs:
    When was their church established, who was its first leader, how are new leaders chosen, by what "authority" were they called, how are the tithes used;
    Or the origin of the Holy Bible (how were the books chosen to be included - why were other writings not included; how did the translation come about; what is the chronology of the books vs. the size of the books in the New Testament, etc.);
    What was going on with Christianity between the time the 12 apostles were killed and Constantine "created" the Christian Orthodox Church in 325AD (Nicene Creed established) that's a gap of 250 years - which is longer than America has been a Nation! what was going on during that time with "christian churches"?:
    What is the true nature of God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit? Most evangelical congregational members think they are 3 separate beings, but their pastors don't think this - they think they are part of a Trinity (all 3 in one) as according to the Nicene Creed dictates...

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:26 a.m.

    @Wayne Rout
    "Obama has no moral standard so he will use Romney's membership any way he can through his puppets."

    It's comments like this that lead people to believe LDS members have a persecution complex. There is anti-mormonism but not to the level of what some such as yourself seem to think there is. Meanwhile you just attacked someone's character for no obvious reason. After all, the candidate most maligned for his religion the last few years... was Obama. I hardly think Obama would care to inflict the same sort of nonsense he's had to deal with where 1/8 the population is thinking he's a muslim for some reason (St. Francis of Assisi school in Indonesia is not a madrassa...) and another large chunk thinking he's a radical black liberation theologist when it's obvious Obama is like a large number of christians in this that he barely ever shows up to church.

  • JRJ Pocatello, ID
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:18 a.m.

    To Cora Smith: The Amish don't as a rule read newspapers. They just concern themselves with other folks marginally. If we could "build a fence" around ourselves in that manner, would we all be better off? Our great responsibility on this earth is to learn and progress. There is much changing that needs to take place within each of us. Our experiences eventually help us to make better decisions, be nicer to each other and become "more perfect" people. Or our greed and power-hungry behaviors will destroy us and others. IT IS OUR CHOICE no matter what religion or political party we belong to.

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:16 a.m.

    @ sharonna- Consider the time in history the statements were made. And even now, many churches are so corrupt! Doctrines have veared south, the love of and for God not evident at all in the way they preach or treat others. Many churches professing they are "Christian" would be (and probably are) an abomination in the eyes of Jesus Christ. There are corrupt individuals in every religion, every walk of life- religious or not. But when the leaders themselves become selfish and haughty, the corruption has most likely trickled down to their congregations. "By their fruit ye shal know them"

    @ Esquire- The MMM didn't have much to do with religion. It was motivated by fear of a repeat of the likes of Haun's Mill and the death and destruction in Missouri and Nauvoo. May have had something to do with the murder of church leaders. Retribution? Who knows. True, a terrible outcome at Mountain Meadows. There is not one member of the church trying to justify it or say it was the right thing to do. Remember it was also the decision of a handful of men to kill- not a directive from "organized religion" nor from God.

  • penny 4 thoughts SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:07 a.m.

    Here is an example of what we are taught as Mormons:
    "He is the most happy and successful in life whose interests are coupled with giving assistance to others and helping them find the way.
    "The sign at the railroad crossing that warns us to stop, look, and listen could be a guide for us. Stop as we rush through life. Look for all the friendly, thoughtful, courteous things we can do, and all the little human needs we can fill. Listen to others and learn of their hopes and problems so that we will be able to contribute in little ways to their success and happiness" (The Teachings of Howard W. Hunter, p. 267).

  • Dektol Powell, OH
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:04 a.m.

    Understanding the reality of Mormonism tells me that no lds member should ever be elected to public office. Their allegiance is to their Church, not to their nation. An Oath of Vengeance against the US was part of the Temple ritual for a long time. The 'prophet' carries more weight for them than their constituents. Not to mention belief in fairy tales and an ever changing reality. Mormons as candidates are not worth the risk.

  • penny 4 thoughts SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:02 a.m.

    I find it interesting that people who are anti-Mormon get all their information from anti-Mormon sources without bothering to study Mormonism itself. So many people use tired old arguments such as Mountain Meadows Massacre to prove that Mormons are 'hypocrites.' Mormons never claimed to be perfect. Some anti-Mormons are so afraid of the Book of Mormon they refuse to even touch it, but how can you know Mormonism if you haven't studied the Book of Mormon to see that it is purely about Jesus Christ? Why do evangelical churches spend so much time preaching and teaching against Mormons instead of preaching their own religion? What are they afraid of?
    No one has claimed that Mormonism is the last frontier when it comes to prejudice --it just happens to be the focus of this article. The prejudice is real and accepted in so many cases when other prejudices have become taboo. Why is anti-Mormonism still so rampant? Why is it tolerated and encouraged by those who, again, know nothing about real Mormon theology? If you are getting your information from anti-Mormons, it is like asking Palestinians about the Jews.

  • Pete1215 Lafayette, IN
    Oct. 12, 2011 10:57 a.m.

    What if the candidate were Catholic and believed the Pope was inerrant? (meaning the candidate did not have sovereign control over his intellect)
    What if the candidate were Shia Muslim and believed the Ayatollahs words were beyond questioning?
    What if the candidate were Mormon and believed the only marriages that were valid were performed in LDS Temples?
    What if the candidate were FLDS and believed that any man not married to at least three wives needed to get with the program?

    A person's belief system can mean a great deal. I would not vote for any of them.

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 10:53 a.m.


    You can disagree all you like, just as you can disagree with the reality of gravity. It doesn't change the reality.

    There are people who live in "communities" of organized crime, gangsters, and drug cartels. I hate such people without ever meeting any of them. I an quite confident I would like some of them if I got to know them, but I am not willing to do that. I hate what they stand for and how unhealthy I think their group is for society and humanity.

    If that makes me prejudiced, so be it.

    Your logic is flawed. Neither blacks nor gays choose to be. Religion is a choice, for the most part, although religions try to indoctrinate children as young as possible to limit their choices.

    If you demand respect from me, you must earn it, just like everybody else. If your organization meddles in the civil rights of others, I don't respect that.

    What about my opinion do you "respect"?

    Mormons think you must agree with them to show "respect" to them and their religion.

    I do not "respect" superstition, myth parading as truth, and exploitation of the gullible.

    Why do you?

  • Weber State Graduate Clearfield, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 10:45 a.m.

    @Ute Fan

    I'm very open to the evidence presented by Mormon scholars. As a matter of fact, I have examined it very carefully and read as much of it as I can with an open mind in order to try to come to terms with their reasoning. I find their conclusions rather fascinating and I'm certainly intrigued by the mental gymnastics one must exercise in order to accept their circular logic.

    I'm more open, however, to the unbiased conclusions of non-Mormon Egyptian scholars (without an agenda0 who maintain that Joseph Smith's declarations were decisively inaccurate.

    My larger point was that such criticism does not rise to the level of anti-Mormonism and that laying claim to victim status for reasonable disagreement is disingenuous.

    At the same time, such criticism SHOULD NOT be used as a weapon to promote bigotry against sincere Latter Day Saints who hold strong to their religious attitudes.

    The LDS church and its members should extend the same tolerance for disagreement to others, including their own members who may question the problematic issues surrounding the BoA. But disagreement is not well tolerated within the LDS ranks.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 10:03 a.m.

    @KM, you want to judge religions by their fruits? Like the Mountain Meadow Massacre? Or the Inquisition? Or Southern Baptist attacks Mormons? Don't go there - it is a fruitless endeavor, one that casts doubt on all organized religion, in which case criticisms of Mormonism do not matter one whit, right? You bring the same religious bigotry to the table that many in this nation condemn. I remember the song, "Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself."

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:46 a.m.


    Really man. Has no moral standards? Get off your high-horse. What makes your morals better than his? Who's the judge?


    "What lies were told about Obamas religion? I guess you haven't heard his pastor rant on about whites or our country? Would you sit in a church for 20 years if your didn't believe the hate-speach comming out of your reverend buddy, whos like an uncle to you?"

    KM, do you have any idea how much anti-black hate speech came out of your church's founders for over a hundred years? Your precious BYU is filled with a racist history, even the founder had direct revelation from God. So please ... President Monson sat through way more than 20 years of that kind of talk. Give Obama a break. Was rough times for blacks back then too!

  • VocalLocal Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:46 a.m.

    I think that many liberal policies are wrong and I voice my opinion on why I think those policies are wrong. That doesn't make me an anti-liberal or a bigot against liberals. I think Mormonism is wrong and I voice my opinion on why I think it is wrong. That doesn't make me an anti-Mormon or a bigot against Mormons.I think it is important to make the distinction.

    However, I also think that Mormonism is as incorrect as any other religious theology. I admit that since I see religion as absurd that all other things equal I would generally trust the intellectual judgement of a secular politician over a devoutly religious one. (Again, I said all other things equal because it certainly wouldn't be my ONLY consideration). I can consequently understand how others viewing Mormonism as more absurd than other religions would view a strong believer in that religion running for political office with greater skepticism and concern.

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:39 a.m.

    @ RonKearns
    I could say a million different things but you summed up everything with your comment, thank you for that. As member of the church I am proud that both Hunstman and Romney defended the fact that religion has nothing to do with how well you can run this great country. This pastor is entitled to his beliefs as we are to ours but when it comes to stating that in political forum or debate he has crossed a line. Religion should always be left out of the conversation when it comes down who would be the best president. I am surprised by some republicans, you think that most of the LDS faithful are conservative in values and vote conservative they would want to defend them, so they could always get their vote. Anyways the church will always be persecuted this is nothing new. Those who fight against the church are fighting a losing battle. Its not going away and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints will continue to grow. I am proud to be a member, until the Savior comes again things wont change.

    Oct. 12, 2011 9:37 a.m.

    MyChildrensKeeper | 5:20 a.m. Oct. 12, 2011
    Taylorsville, UT

    All I can say is WHAT are you talking about?

    Oct. 12, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    I guess I could have said "Liberals" but it is all the same. I was a Truman Democrat many years ago. I voted for John F Kennedy, Conservative Democracy. The Civil Rights Movment was one of the greatest things for this country. It allowed all to be equal under the law. The current Democratic Party is just full of all kinds of things,I know from many years of living, are wrong for everyone. You do not hand out money to those who did not earn it, and you do not take it from those who did. That is theft..It creates generations of welfare kids. It does not cure poverty. It has not worked and it never will. Over taxing the rich will only move them out of our country, and the jobs, that the business they own, produce. This is very bad for our nation! When the vast majority of the 'good' jobs come from the government this is socialism. The government produces nothing and must be checked. It is a massive resource drain on our nation. Expecting the government to provide for you is wrong.
    "Those who would give up their freedom for security, deserve neither."

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    @Petra, It is so very obvious to LDS that this is bigotry, but if you should object, you can count on being told you are a "whiner," and that you just don't get how "offensive" LDS are. Yeah right.

    Actually Mormonism is anti-Christian. A short list:
    JS said, all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were corrupt(JS History 1:19)

    Brigham Young said, with regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world (JoD 8:199)

    John Taylor. said .Christianity, but it is pack of nonsense. the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than Christianity(JoD 6:167)

  • justaguy Out There in, WI
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    I wonder if the anti-Mormon feelings will ever go away. Will there ever come a time when Mormons will not be the object of derision and scorn? Part of me thinks not, part of me hopes it someday happens.

  • obrycki SANDY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:22 a.m.

    I am non LDS. And I agree that the mormans should not be called non Christians. But LDS members shouldn't complain about those who discriminate against them. I have moved from Utah after spending my entire life there. I have never witnessed the discrimination against others as the LDS members do to non LDS members. I have some very good friends that are LDS and do not discrimintae. But as a whole...LDS people are cruel to those who are non members. Complaining is a "do as I say..not as I do" reaction. Try embracing those from other religions and they will do the same to you.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:21 a.m.


  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:18 a.m.

    Wayne Rout | 9:02 a.m. Oct. 12, 2011
    El Paso, TX
    "My guess is that many Church members are surprised at the attacks on Mr. Romney. Consider:
    *Obama has no moral standard so he will use Romney's membership any way he can through his puppets"

    @Wayne-and statements like this is EXACTLY why so many people are biased against mormons! Who do you think you are to judge the President this way, simply because his standards may not be the same as your standards. I am LDS, but I see bigotry when it exists and don't put my blinders on when it happens to come from the mouth of another member of the church.

  • D'Anconia Providence, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:04 a.m.

    As a member of the LDS church I have no problem with people labeling the church as cult. The church's origin and rituals fit that definition.

    I went through the temple for the first time in the late 80's. That was a rude awakening. The word 'cult' came to my mind after that experience.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    My guess is that many Church members are surprised at the attacks on Mr. Romney. Consider:

    *Obama has no moral standard so he will use Romney's membership any way he can through his puppets.
    *Those that lead the mega church groups are often more like business leaders than religious leaders. They play to their congregation and want to protect their donor base.
    *Media and entertainment types resent the Church because of the standards that we are expected to live. They resist anything that has a right or wrong teaching.
    *Some people just want to get their name in the news so they will be for or against anything.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:48 a.m.

    Petra, It is so very obvious to LDS that this is bigotry, but if you should object, you can count on being told you are a "whiner," and that you just don't get how "offensive" LDS are. Yeah right.
    Actually Mormonism is anti-Christian. A short list:

    JS said, all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were corrupt(JS History 1:19).

    Brigham Young said, with regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world (JoD 8:199)

    John Taylor. said .Christianity, but it is pack of nonsense. the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than Christianity(JoD 6:167)

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:47 a.m.

    @Weber State Graduate

    "For a personal invitation, just try presenting academic evidence in Priesthood meeting by Egyptian scholars that sheds doubt about the claims made by Joseph Smith regarding the Book of Abraham."

    For a personal invitation, just try presenting academic evidence by Mormon scholars and Mormon Egyptian scholars that shows evidence about the claims made by Joseph Smith regarding the truthfulness of the Book of Abraham. And see how open YOU are to that.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:46 a.m.

    Step by step, the truth about the LDS church is moving out into the world. Many learn each day that the LDS church is synonymous with Jesus Christ and there is nothing contrary to his teachings in what they teach. It is great to witness this happening in such a big arena. I won't vote for Romney because he is LDS and I hope many won't vote against him for the same reason. I think he will be a great President and will help the U.S. back to greatness.

  • Cora Smith BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:44 a.m.

    Ever wonder why nobody condems the Amish religion? Because they keep to their selves, stay out of politics, they don't condem any other religion's or people regardless of race, sex, or just about anything.
    Is there a lesson to be learned?

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:44 a.m.

    Someone said that religious bigotry is the 'thinking-man's prejudice'. I have argued that it isn't. It is the result of not thinking, of following the fashion, i.e. political correctness, rather than thinking on one's own.

    On the other hand, if we had someone come to us from a different, non-mainstream religion, i.e. a Wiccan, a bona-fide pagan, we should respect them as we want to be respected. An Egyptian friend told me he was living in Houston during 9/11, his LDS neighbor came over to his house and helped him guard it because of what the other neighbors might do.

  • ClarkKent Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:35 a.m.

    From the number of articles the DN is posting on this topic, I think I need to get a larger violin.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:27 a.m.


    What lies were told about Obamas religion? I guess you haven't heard his pastor rant on about whites or our country? Would you sit in a church for 20 years if your didn't believe the hate-speach comming out of your reverend buddy, whos like an uncle to you?

    As for Islam...lets just judge them by their fruits.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:14 a.m.

    I would encourage my fellow LDS to also treat people of other faiths better. While many do this, some do things that offend other faiths and it is not good. This is a moment in time that all can learn, not just people calling the LDS Church a cult.

    Oct. 12, 2011 8:11 a.m.

    As a Mormon, I recently had the opportunity to listen to the leaders of the Church. Each speaker bore a strong, powerful witness to the Savior as the Son of God and the importance of our personal relationship to him. It was a wonderful Conference. That said, the teachings of our Prophet today is no different than what Joseph Smith taught. Joseph's desire, and the continued purpose of the Church is to lead us to Christ.

  • Weber State Graduate Clearfield, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:02 a.m.

    Its a regrettable fact that a lot of anti-Mormon bigotry indeed exists against LDS members and ironically, much of it comes from those who are swift in seizing the so called high road when it comes to tolerance.

    However, many LDS people mistake a reasonable challenge to some of the more fantastic claims made by the church as being somehow anti-Mormon. They are quick to play the "anti-Mormon card" when presented with any rational evidence to the contrary...the church is very slow to admit that they may not have a monopoly on the truth. In fact certain challenges to some of these rigid claims of absolute truth will land LDS faithful in a Bishops court. For a personal invitation, just try presenting academic evidence in Priesthood meeting by Egyptian scholars that sheds doubt about the claims made by Joseph Smith regarding the Book of Abraham.

    This, however, shouldn't excuse some of the more mean spirited attacks against sincere LDS people, nor absolve anyone from perpetuating anti-Mormon bigotry. As a previous poster said, "when we fail to listen, we fail to learn and improve." This includes tolerance of religious beliefs, even amongst disagreement.

  • OnlytheCross Bakersfield, CA
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:58 a.m.

    Saletan can quote Gallup, Pew and Poll Position all day long. The Bible is the sole determination of the Word of God for evangelicals. It is not the only source of truth for many other Christian denominations, by their own doctrinal statements. So for Mr. Saletan to pontificate on American tolerance is meaningless for evangelical ethics per se, while it is a marker for pollsters.

    If "Anti-Mormonism" is this century's prejudice, what was Joseph Smith's 1830 prejudice against the entire Christian foundation? His "c" word wasn't cult, it was "corrupt". And each LDS prophet has maintained that opinion down to the present. How disingenuous of Bushman not to note who first assailed historic, Biblical Christianity. I'll vote for the first Mormon who honestly addresses his own foundational beliefs, denounces this silly claim that prejudice is driving this theological divide, and quotes all his own leader's statements about the absolute lack of validity in even a single Christian denomination.

    I've got the quotes ready, an entire library of Mormon sources.. Who will print it first?

    My Palestinian and Jewish friends will never vote for each other. Ditto for my Mormon and Baptist family. But we all BBQ together.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:57 a.m.

    Why are people so bothered when someone speaks out against the church? It doesn't create anything positive, only contention. I have learned to not let it bother me when others speak out against the church because in most cases they have an irrational hatred for it any debating them is only a waste of time.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:55 a.m.

    als Atheist | 7:19 a.m. Oct. 12, 2011
    Provo, UT
    "Mormons presume they have a right to be liked. You don't. And those who don't like Mormons, and don't agree with Mormonism should not be vilified."

    You are right, I don't have a right to be liked, but if you hate anyone because of the community that they live, you are prejudiced. The word "prejudiced" means to "pre-judge" without any other information.

    Lets use your words and talk about some other groups (pick your group):

    "(Atheist, blacks, Jews, Baptists, gays...) presume they have a right to be liked. You don't. And those who don't like (Atheist, blacks, Jews, Baptists, gays...), and don't agree with (Atheist, blacks, Jews, Baptists, gays...) should not be vilified."

    It is about respect for others. If you dislike someone because they are part of a population, you are demonstrating a lack of respect for others. It doesn't matter who you are. This demonstrates a level of prejudice.

    It is only through respect that a civil discussion can occur. I don't have to agree with you to respect your opinion, and I strongly disagree with your above stated opinion.

  • the_narrator claremont, ca
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:31 a.m.

    Those who really want to believe that anti-Mormonism is THE "prejudice of our age" should look at the comments made by Santorum, Bachmann, and others in the GOP about homosexuals that receive no condemnation whatsoever by other GOP contenders or the GOP in general. In fact, the prejudice against homosexuals by the GOP is so standard that hateful comments (or booing a homosexual military serviceman) doesn't even cause much of a reaction from anyone.

    Latter-day Saints should be especially cautious of calling jumping on this slogan as prejudice against homosexuals has been exemplified by "The Brethren" (TM) who repeatedly vilified homosexuals during the 2008 Prop 8 campaign, by accusing them of aligning with Satan and seeking to destroy families and the world a large.

    Homosexuals make up larger percentage of US citizens than Latter-day Saints, but (as this current election shows) we are far more likely to have a Mormon president than a homosexual one.

  • Filo Doughboy Bakersfield, CA
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:24 a.m.

    So Morning Joe Java is your religion expert, although admittedly "not religious himself". Good source there.

    And Bushman thinks tolerant America allowing all fringe religions to get legitimacy should define the Biblical litmus test. Hmmm...

    Politically, Jeffress said everyone can run. He cast no aspersions on that persuasion, and said he would vote for Mitt in the general. Religiously, he spoke to his own camp and it was a highly inappropriate venue. His pulpit is that terrain, in moi opinion. He tried to explain that he was agreeing with LDS, from the perspective that they also claim not to be from historical Christian origins. But if you're going to open the door to an in-house debate, have enough sense to pick the time and place where you can define your terms, quote your scripture refs and explain your case.

    It is silly, from all of us former Mormon's perspective, that there was such shock at the use of the dasterdly "C" word. Even Jeffress explained that Mormomism has always been considered "a theological cult" by mainstream Christians. I never knew that as an LDS, but walk into any Christian bookstore. Bushman should be up on his homework.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:24 a.m.

    There is no room for religious bigotry, and heaven knows that as one whose personal and family history has seen bigotry from the early days of the Church, I find it ridiculous how people profess to be Christian yet know nothing of the teachings of Christ. However, I find that many of my own LDS faith also fail to know and understand the teachings of Christ. Many of our own faith also engage in forms of religious bigotry, while at the same time have a persecution complex. We are thin-skinned about valid criticisms of our faith and eat up the hyperbole of others, such as calling religious bigotry of Mormons "the prejudice of our age". Such statements are over the top, particularly in light of bigotry against other faiths that is rampant. How many of you came to the defense of Islam when a mosque was proposed a few blocks from the World Trade Center site, or defended President Obama when lies were told about his religious beliefs? No, we live in a country that purports to grant religious freedom, yet religious persecution is widespread, and Mormons are hardly unique being singled out and engage in it themselves.

  • als Atheist Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:19 a.m.

    Mormons presume they have a right to be liked.

    You don't.

    And those who don't like Mormons, and don't agree with Mormonism should not be vilified.

    This is typical Mormon persecution complex and playing the victim.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:06 a.m.

    Well, I guess DN's censors are at it again.

    What is wrong with pointing out the hypocrisy of the Mormon Reaction to this latest ado?

    Mormons are apalled that others are bigoted towards them, but they see no problem with being bigots themselves (anti-glbt bigotry anyone?).

    There is a word for this: Hypocrisy.

    Jesus was quite clear in condemning the hypocrites.

  • Grace Bakersfield, CA
    Oct. 12, 2011 6:46 a.m.

    Unfortunately, this article gave no substance, clarification or enlightening definition from the Baptist position nor of the core issue for Pastor Jeffress' target group: Should evangelicals be leary of Mormon presidential candidates? Each source quoted in it expressed no knowledge of the evangelical's concern, so who cares what they spouted off? This is par for the casual journalism we get here.

    Where was the Baptist side explained or one qualified representative quoted? I can write the same one-sided article, quoting only LDS prophets and giving no context. It will never see print here, because the open-minded, fair censors won't allow it. There are several of us evangelicals who try. We break no comment rules and get more rejects than accepts. How is that possible?

    I was LDS for 35 years, evangelical the past 25. We've attended So. Baptist churches for over 20 and have been teaching a course entitled, "Witnessing the Biblical Jesus to your Mormon Friends" for over 18 years. We emphasize sharing in love, understanding the different definitions of each denomination's terms, and knowing the history of both.

    This class is always full, they get all LDS scriptures. That's how you begin the dialogue.

  • Carrick Layton, 84041
    Oct. 12, 2011 6:26 a.m.

    I strongly recommend reading two books that go into detail about the politics and religion surrounding Mormons who have run for president. The books are The Mormon Quest for the Presidency: From Joseph Smith to Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman (2011) and A Different God? Mitt Romney, the Religious Right and the Mormon Question (2008).

  • MyChildrensKeeper Taylorsville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:20 a.m.

    The news media is twisting the real issue here to create this anti sentiment and out rage Mormons are displaying.

    It's not their religion, its their doctrine and upbringings as socialist and socialism that bothers me. Every Mormon candidate is displaying his true character as a socialist and the workers and commoners have no rights or authorities with individual rights. They would rather give fugitive illegal criminals the benefits and jobs that government and tax payers need to insure high profits.

    Since all the Mormon candidates are also business owners they know full well the benefits of socialism and keeping Americans unemployed. For business its Nirvana as it is very tax free lucrative profits and they use racism and socialism to keep workers rights and wages suppressed.

    If they and all Republicans had their way, the Federal Labor laws and minimum wage would be repealed. This whole country would be a Right to Work nation to keep workers poor. They think workers should not be prosperous with good pay and wages without their consent.

  • MoJules Florissant, MO
    Oct. 11, 2011 11:59 p.m.

    The Deuce, thanks for your insightful comments. I am a Mormon and when someone tells me that I am not a Christian, it hurts. My daughter left the LDS church and does not believe in the Savior anymore. That is hard as a mother, but I am happy when she finds or connects to anything that will help her to be reflective. There is a part of me that would love to convert everyone to the Mormon church, the reason being, is my great love for my religion and what I have learned about my Savior and what he has done for me. But I also encourage others in their religious beliefs, in the Christian society. When we are practicing our religion and following the teachings and the examples of the Savior, then we are going to treat others with kindness and respect. So Deuce, from one Christian to another Christian, thanks so much for being a Christian friend to we Mormons, it really means a lot to know that there are people out there like you and like those who are defending how we believe.

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    Oct. 11, 2011 10:55 p.m.

    Great article! Joe Scarborough nailed it.

  • The Deuce Livermore, CA
    Oct. 11, 2011 10:45 p.m.

    The interesting thing about this is that as a non-LDS, I find a large volume of factual information readilly available to all to understand the doctrine of the LDS faith. It is quite easy to see that the LDS faith is based on faith in Jesus Christ. Seems like this qualifies as Christian according to the Bible I read. Second, the old prejudice that exists is based on old out-dated information that is full of half truths at best. This issue of religion is based on fear that the LDS faith may actually have something to it. All of this has made me actually start reading more about this church. Let's look at what a candidate can bring to the office and what they propose to lead with. The question about the LDS faith is old and has no legs any longer. Let's look at the issues and where the candidates stand. Discussing whether or not the LDS are Christian or not is old and tired.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 10:25 p.m.

    Petra, great comments.

    This article hit things right on the head. I would provide reason, but since when have others listened. Those who are willing to work with each other would already know how accurate this article is.

    Great commentary from this writer and those quoted!

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 9:47 p.m.


    how about we learn to respect others period regardless of religion, political affiliation, gender, sexual orientation etc...

  • srw Riverton, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 9:36 p.m.

    This is an excellent and very helpful article. I really appreciate the wise statements that were quoted.

    "Saletan cites several different public opinion surveys Gallup, Pew, Quinnipiac, Lawrence and Poll Position to show that while prejudice against voting for black, female, Catholic, Jewish and Hispanic candidates has declined significantly during the past half-century, prejudice against voting for a Mormon candidate remains high."

    And how would we feel about a Muslim candidate?

  • Jeff Temple City, CA
    Oct. 11, 2011 9:35 p.m.

    I was really impressed with Bushman's comments. I hope that our society can learn to respect both Mormons and Muslims.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 9:19 p.m.


    The Deseret News has been CREATING news about how 'Obama's purported weird strategy' about the Mormon faith...

    even when Obama said ZERO about the Mormon faith.

    Then, created a scenario where Michelle Bachmann's pastor MIGHT have said something about the Mormon faith.

    even when Bachmann, said ZERO about the Mormon faith.

    The Deseret News has said more about 'anti-mormon prejudice'...than any of it's opponents.

    Oct. 11, 2011 8:55 p.m.

    I failed to stand as other where persecuted by the far right and now their is no one left to stand for me. how sad.

    Oct. 11, 2011 8:54 p.m.

    Like former Congressman Scarborough, I am amazed at Christian leaders who set themselves up to judge other Christians. I was a boy when John F. Kennedy was elected and I remember anti-Catholic attacks of that time. Now, the Mormons get their turn.

    Oct. 11, 2011 8:36 p.m.

    Its unfortunate that so many LDS people stood by and watched as the GOP went after others with their extreme rhetoric about being marxist, socialist, anti American etc.... and said nothing and now that same rhetoric has been turned on them. This type of bigotry is wrong and we should all stand against it, it would have been nice if the LDS members would have stood up sooner for those that faced this prejudice before them and with those that still do.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 8:24 p.m.

    'Prejudice' implies that the dislike is irrational. Based on heresy and enforced through propaganda.

    Let me be clear.

    My dislike for the LDS church is not because of heresay. It has not basis in the irrational and it is factually based on actions of the group, as a whole.

    This will probably not be posted but:

    Hawaii, 1996. The opposition against civil unions in Hawaii can be traced back to the LDS church. Though just in my teens at the time, this would have effected me as an adult.

    California, 2008. Prop 8. The LDS church has gone on record giving thousands of dollars and volunteer time against gay marriage.

    Mitt Romney. LDS presidental candidate, signs 'pledge' to investigate LGBT.

    I, did not choose to dislike the LDS church.

    The LDS church chose to take action against gay Americans.

    As such, I still do NOT hold that 'all' LDS hate gays. But the actions they take as an entity, fuel my resentment.

    If those persons take that as 'prejudice', so be it.

    I, will not resort to name-calling. Just an admission of the actions and timeframes that took place.

    Good day.

  • FreeMan Heber City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 7:45 p.m.

    I'm fine with being called a cult. In fact, the Church might do better to embrace the idea. The younger generation might think it's cool. I'd rather be called a cult than christians by the evangelical hypocrites.

  • isrred Logan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 7:30 p.m.

    Prejudice of our age? Really? Of the polls that the Slate article references, 2 include poll data on whether someone is more or less likely to vote for a gay person and people are LESS likely to vote for a person who is gay. It was just recently that our government mandated that gays and lesbians be fired from their jobs in the military. And LDS people can even get married too! And they think they are picked on?

    Just look at these same polls and see how Muslims, Atheists, and Gays do in those polls. Mormons aren't even in the top three minority groups that show prejudice in the polls the article references.

    Mormon-phobia is wrong. Voting against someone on the basis of their religion is wrong. Religious persecution is wrong. But calling this the "prejudice of our age" is absurd.

  • Petra Sanpete County, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 7:14 p.m.

    Your rant against Democrats in the South is misplaced - as soon as Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Law, all those Democrats became Republican, just as he feared they would....

    And actually, your stereotyping, sweeping generalizations, lack of accurate information, and attempting to place all the blame for everything in the world on one faction (be it LDS or Democrats) is just what this article is about - a general lack of respect for the "other," which, if untamed, can easily turn into bigotry.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 7:09 p.m.

    "Yes, and the highest prejudice against Black Americans was in the South among Democrats."

    Ever wonder who was president when civil rights bills were passed and ever wonder why Democrats don't win the south anymore?

  • bballjunkie Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 7:05 p.m.

    I don't mind the anti-Mormon comments at all...When are people going to figure out the more hate or bigotry that is spoken the better it is for the church, more and more people will and do look into the church to find out what is true and what is not. The exposure that the church receives from this can be a big benefit.

    Oct. 11, 2011 6:38 p.m.

    Yes, and the highest prejudice against Black Americans was in the South among Democrats.
    They claim to be for a freer society but in reality, these Democrates are for a closed society where no one can progress. They are all for welfare and entittlements that keep the poor, poor.
    They support the wanton destruction of commerce and free trade, by taxing business out of our country. They support the destruction of American business by enviromental laws and overt regulations. Democrates are against your job!
    They want every penny you do earn, because they believe they can spend it wiser then you can. They want control of the raising, through school funds, of your children because they want to control what your children know. They believe they are far smarter then the rest of us.
    The Democrats are the most prejudice people in our country.
    If you don't believe me read what is said after I post!

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    Oct. 11, 2011 6:38 p.m.

    As England stood alone, during that awful time of 1940, as Winston Churchill once stated, it was their "finest hour". I feel it a privilege to be in our church's finest hour. Are we to expect anything less?
    If no other GOP candidate quickly condemns these allegations, then so be it.
    I am very proud of both Romney and Huntsman. It is their finest hour, as well as mine, and ours, as LDS, despite the outcome.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 6:37 p.m.

    Opps. Forgot a couple words.

    I DO NOT think that "anti-Mormonism," is the real issue...

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 6:35 p.m.

    Thanks for the article.

    It was very thought provoking. I think that "anti-Mormonism," is the real issue. The underlining cancer is the general lack of respect for others' opinions. Respect for others' views is what has made this country great.

    When we fail to listen, we fail to learn and improve. Not one of us has the right answer; it is through honest, respectful, and lively debate that this great country can grow.

    The easy answer is never right.

  • Petra Sanpete County, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 6:27 p.m.

    Excellent, excellent article and about time, too. It is so very obvious to LDS that this is bigotry, but if you should object, you can count on being told you are a "whiner," and that you just don't get how "offensive" LDS are. Yeah right.

    One local comments board in particular (cough*SLTrib*cough) is particularly bad in allowing horribly bigoted remarks about LDS. You would think they would be more progressive and proactive - some day, this will be a black eye for that newspaper.

    And it is so very true that "new" objects of bigotry are not immediately recognized as such. Substituting "Jew" or "Black" for LDS (in this case), however, at it becomes glaringly apparent.