Blue roundup: Big 12 to stay at 10 teams in 2012

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  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:42 p.m.

    Jake2010 asked "Just a concept here...... How can something currently 9 members strong stay at 10 members for 2012 if one leaves while one comes in?"

    Just a math problem here, and math is hard, but...
    ISU, Mizzou, KSU, KU, OSU, OU, UT, TT, BU + TCU = 10

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    "Why doesn't the Big 12, which has ten teams with the addition of TCU, swap names with the Big Ten, which has 12 teams. It's so-o-o-o-o-o confusing!"


    Because if they did, and then decided to expand, THEY'D be the only erroneously-named conference instead of the other way around.

    And if they don't expand, they've got company. :)

  • 1984! SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:07 p.m.

    won84 you are embarrassing. You took this way beyond the discussion of the Big not criticize a veteran on his service, especially when you clearly have not served.

  • Spitvalve Denton, TX
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:41 p.m.

    Why doesn't the Big 12, which has ten teams with the addition of TCU, swap names with the Big Ten, which has 12 teams. It's so-o-o-o-o-o confusing!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:36 p.m.


    "...your posts tend to be a bit 'lite' for someone who's user name implies he or she may have served in the armed forces. Most of the comments seem more indicative of an individual who probably hid in the corner while his fellow comrades handled the combat."

    ...said the Indy-WACer who never served.

    Do you know how I know you never served? Because anyone who HAD served would have known how pathetic your conclusion could be. I never suggested I served in the cougar Navy or the Provo Navy; I served in the U.S. Navy. And any current or prior U.S. service member who had ever graduated from basic training knows that falling all over oneself in venerated homage to the Y is neither a prerequisite, condition, nor consequence of Armed Forces duty. Our oath is to defend our the constitution, bear allegiance to our nation, and obey the orders of the CIC; not Samuelson, Holmoe, or Cosmo. You obviously didn't know that.

    I have to laugh at all those how had never served a day in the military would/could impugn the service of one who had. That is SO cougarnation!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Oct. 12, 2011 2:18 p.m.


    The DNews does not permit links, but if you were to google ESPN's "TCU discusses Big 12 invite", you will see the opening, "TCU athletic officials and the board of trustees spoke Thursday about an invitation to join the Big 12, and the trustees are expected to meet Friday or early next week, according to sources close to the negotiations." So in THIS case, TCU was invited, but had not yet accepted the invitation. Therefore, this plainly infers that the Big XII's expansion model is:

    -(1) Invitation first
    -(2) Acceptance of invitation at some point afterthefact.

    Since there was no invitation to the Y, we may conclude that it was because the Big XII preferred TCU. Since the most recent reports now available suggest the Big XII's next favored opponents are West Virginia and Louisville, we may reasonably conclude the Big XII is happy with their station of not inviting the cougars. Case closed.

    Oct. 12, 2011 12:58 p.m.

    "Actually, it was the Big XII who was very happy to not align themselves with the Y."

    Naval Vet, please provide a link to support that claim.

    It's telling that the Big 12 was talking Arkansas, ND, and BYU as initial expansion targets. None of the three ever actually publicly declined an invitation to the Big 12 but, all simply reaffirmed being pleased with their current situations. Then, despite months of claiming the Big 12 didn't want TCU, suddenly they were invited to join the conference.

    What it really seems like is you have an unhealed emotional wound sourced by BYU.

    And speaking of the "WAC-lite", your posts tend to be a bit "lite" for someone who's user name implies he or she may have served in the armed forces. Most of the comments seem more indicative of an individual who probably hid in the corner while his fellow comrades handled the combat.

    Just my $.02.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:31 p.m.


    "BYU ESPN 10 games....Your perjorative [sic] tags are nothing more than phony constructs and you know it."

    And SPEAKING of "phony constructs", you cougar fans have been so in love with the Y's ESPN contract that you've all forgotten that ESPN isn't the only sports media outlet available broadcasting college football games. DESPITE the Utes not having much in the way of televised games scheduled in the preseason, the ONLY game I was NOT able to watch back here in Philadelphia was our game vs. Montana State.

    BTW: Next year, EVERY Utah game will be televised.

    Yes, we are 0-3 in Pac-12 play, but that would ALSO be vs. opponents who are currently 7-1 in Pac-12 play, and 13-3 overall. That's also known as a "front-loaded schedule".

    SCOREBOARD! 54-10! 7 of the last 10! Have fun down there in the WAC!

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:18 p.m.

    Just a concept here...... How can something currently 9 members strong stay at 10 members for 2012 if one leaves while one comes in? This is far from over.... This said, there is a football only tolerant conference out there that BYU would fit in with rather nicely even though it isn't much better top to bottom than the WAC or MWC... It still has the BCS AQ status.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:57 a.m.

    I'm amazed at all the fairweather BYU fans that think the BYU and Church brass don't know what they're doing. I bet the brass are more competent than you think.

    None of us know what's going on behind closed doors.

    BYU will end up doing what's best for the school, whether it's remaining indepdendent for another year or two to let the B12 settle down, or remain independent "forever." The brass will make the correct decision based on all the "facts" available, most of which we fans will never hear about.

    I'm happy either way because the B12 and independence each provide pluses and minuses. BYU can be successful with either situation.

    And for you trolls who think otherwise, why did ESPN make such a long-term contract with BYU if the school is as irrelevant as you like to think? Bet that sticks in your craw.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:46 a.m.

    If I were the B12, I too would look East for expansion. It's simple: Louisville and West Va are already BCS schools, whereas BYU and Boise St aren't. Also, picking up the Eastern time zone provides more eyes than does the Mountain time zone.

    That said, if Missouri leaves, BYU's in, UNLESS Cincinnati is considered a better get by the B12 than BYU.

    HOWEVER, there's the issue of WHEN teams can join, with the Big East teams having that 27-month delay. So, if Missouri leaves this year OR the next, BYU's the obvious quick-fix for the B12 to remain at 10.

    If the B12 should ever want to expand to 14 to keep up with the SEC and ACC, which are headed that way, that allows BYU an easy in, as there won't be enough left of the Big East to choose from.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:42 a.m.


    "After watching the In-Fighting, and the likes of T. Boone Pickins etc. I think BYU is very happy not to align themselves with this bunch."

    Actually, it was the Big XII who was very happy to not align themselves with the Y.

    As for your "sour grapes" spin, it is very well possible that the reason Holmoe and the rest of your "powers that be" can get away with their failures is because enablers such as yourself will always support whatever bad decisions they make, and then make their excuses FOR them. I've read far too many comments from Y fans over these past few weeks to believe you all are satisfied playing WAC-lite football schedule. Some of your fans were asking questions and/or requesting Y administrators keep them in the loop as to what they were doing, and why they were doing it. Of course their pleas for explanations and accountability were ignored. And why wouldn't they be? What are fans going to do if they don't explain themselves? You all will just continue "supporting" them and every decision they make; as if they could do no wrong.

    So get used to the WAC.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:28 a.m.

    "BYU may have better academics than any other school in the west . . ."
    Still Blue:
    A bit bold (some may say delusional), don't you think?

    "ESPN is much more important in introducing the church . . ."
    Is that the "introduction" the Church really wants, right before/after the beer ads?

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 10:36 a.m.


    The Big East - West Division scenario you have constantly repeated sounds interesting. One fly in the ointment--BCS AQ status would not be a sure thing.

    With only 6 BE members from this year, a "new" Big East's AQ status would be still subject to the byzantine formula of points and the records of all its members. In fact, the MWC may have a better shot at AQ status than a "new" Big East in 2014.

    Ouch! Leave for more attention, all the while secretly craving BCS inclusion. Then watch New Mexico and UNLV get in to the BCS club while your nose is still on the outside of the glass looking in!

    Now all you've got left is the knowledge that your ESPN/BYUtv/WAC TV schedule won't outdraw reruns on TVLand. Gary Patterson had it right, "Be careful what you wish for."

    As Ducky says (frequently): LOL!

    Oct. 12, 2011 2:30 a.m.

    Oh the humanity. It feels as if we are on the Voyage of the Damned. Trapped upon a ship with no place that will accept our band of refugees. Meanwhile we must endure the endless and mindless dribble from some BYU and Ute fans in the following ways:


    We beat you so badly that now no one wants you
    We are the Great and Powerful Members of the All Powerful Pac 12
    We shall recruit while you use your stadium for intramural flag football

    Cougars (some);

    Have a little faith, Holmoe is perfect and has all the answers
    We want to be on the outside looking in
    I have it on good authority that SLC wants to kill BYU sports
    We must keep our promise to the WCC
    There are more important things than football (yeah we know)

    This is the bottom line. The Utes moved up. The Cougars moved. Most Cougars want into the Big 12 (remember they have great bowl tie-ins 2nd place to the Cotton Bowl, 5th to the Holiday Bowl for example).

    But the powers that be choose to leave us both blind and adrift. Never knowing a real home. Sad.

  • Go Big Blue!!! Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 1:15 a.m.

    Sorry y, Big XII was looking for football programs.

  • PAC 10.2 Doormat Springville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 12:13 a.m.

    Dear Jenny,

    Several of us are considering a pity party in the near future for the despondent Ute fans. You're invited.


  • Stenar Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 10:11 p.m.

    No one wants BYU. :(

  • Hatch Sandy, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 8:26 p.m.

    Definitely disapointing. I have been watching BYU football since the Tommy Hudspeth era and while today's news is disapointing, I am sure there will be better days. Lets be honest though, while it may take a few years for Utah to get competitive in the PAC12 it's going to take a few years for BYU to get some decent competition.

  • Jenny83 OGDEN, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 8:16 p.m.

    Bluto....How did your team do against a Pac 12 team on Sept. 17th......That's what I thought.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 7:38 p.m.

    When the whole talk about possibly going to a BCS conference began I was very bummed out. Independence is by far the more attractive option because it allows the University to best serve its mission and to play games across the US.

    We don't need conference affiliation to make ourselves feel good. We don't need to go to a bowl that has been labeled as BCS either. BYU with its affliation with ESPN is much more important in introducing the church than selling out to the Big 12 would be. That isn't what is important. It may be the end all of joys for other programs, but not so for BYU. By staying independent BYU has shown that some things are more important than what the rest of us thought was important when it comes to football.

  • localblue Sandy, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 7:01 p.m.

    I don't know the details but I think the BYU admin bombed on this one. They are going to regret not bending over backward to get into the Big 12 in a couple of years. Independence will bring irrelevance unless BYU can schedule the big name games AND win, both of which seem a lot more difficult now than they did at the beginning of the season. I've been a BYU fan all my life but I'm going to have to find other teams to watch while I continue to cheer for BYU. The games against SJSU just don't do it for me unfortunately.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Oct. 11, 2011 6:51 p.m.

    Good, now that's settled, lets get back to football.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 6:42 p.m.

    Still Blue after all these years:

    The uncomfortable truth is that BYU was not considered for PAC expansion for a number of reasons, but one that never gets mentioned in these parts is California's recent Proposition 8.

    UC-Berkeley & Stanford consider themselves to be the vanguard of civil rights, and Prop 8 is viewed as a civil rights issue.

    Of course, the opposite opinion is that those in favor of restricting civil rights for gays and lesbians are simply engaging in religious freedom.

    If the PAC sees the issue differently than BYU, they can invite whom they choose, or not issue invitations, accordingly.

    USC was founded as a religious school, so it seems a little disengenuous to attrib religious discrimination to the entire league.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 6:30 p.m.

    byu is in in 2013. I know it for a fact.

  • Bob H Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 11, 2011 6:25 p.m.

    Believe as has been printed that OU's AD and President are not in favor of BYU joining the B-12. No reason given but they also seem to be looking eastward and not to the west. Still the sticky problem of sunday sports activities has to be considered; not for football but for volleyball, baseball, etc. Of course, it had EVERYTHING to do with football. Just maybe BYU should have stayed in the MWC (fat chance with TV contract) despite making big bucks with BYUtv reruns. Going Indy means tough going for all sports other than football and even FB has scheduling problems. Forget the B-12; they'll never take BYU.

  • Madden Herriman, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 6:04 p.m.

    If reports are true, BYU had a shot at the Big 12, but they decided to play hardball on some issues. They didn't realize the Big 12 wanted them to HELP the conference and add stability during a time of uncertainty. Now that the conference is stable (due to the Big East imploding), BYU is not as attractive.

    IMO, the BYU administration made a big mistake, but independence might still work out OK.

    Of course, if independence scheduling proves too difficult, BYU, Boise, AF, USU (assuming they start winning these close games) and the rest of the best western non-AQs can create a NEW 8-10 team conference with enough high ranking teams that they get AQ status. The AQ formula is known, and by the time the review comes up you can probably workout the math and set up the right teams' invites. Just make sure Thompson is not invited as commish.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 5:43 p.m.

    @Naval Vet

    Your Utes aren't even mid-majors in their own conference, they are the bottomfeeders, along with Washington State.

    BYU ESPN 10 games.
    Your perjorative tags are nothing more than phony constructs and you know it.

    0-3 Pac 12. Really lighting the World on fire?

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 5:36 p.m.

    BYU is not now or ever, going to send their Non-Revenue Olympic sports to another League, other than the WCC.

    They are very happy with this arrangement, Basketball notwithstanding.
    They love the Association, the Short-Travel and the the huge BYU Alumni Bases on the West Coast.

    After watching the In-Fighting, and the likes of T. Boone Pickins etc.
    I think BYU is very happy not to align themselves with this bunch.
    Remember, Oklahoma named their Athletic Center after Barry Switzer. 'Nuff said!

    I think BYU would have gone instantly, had they been allowed to join as Football only.

    Which is why the rumors of a Big East, Football-Only Western Division is worth looking at. The Big East already has Basketball only schools.

    Rename the Big East the Continental Conference.

    Eastern Division:

    West Virginia
    South Florida

    Western Division: (football only)

    Boise St.
    Air Force
    Colorado St.

    12 team BCS League or 14 teams, then add Navy & CFU

    Championship game in Yankee Stadium for BCS berth.

    Other programs...

    Air Force-Missouri Valley

    Boise St.
    Colorado St.

  • D'Anconia Providence, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 5:21 p.m.

    It's probably all for the best that BYU stays independent. Based on how they played at home against the 9th best team in the Pac-12, they are not ready to join the big boys yet.

  • Still Blue after all these years Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 4:51 p.m.

    to Executorloh: What the Pac 12 will prove, if they move towards more teams is that they don't want BYU for religious reasons. Its a very secular conference. BYU may have better academics than any other school in the west, but any other school will get an invite before the Cougs. Boise, SDSU, Fresno, Hawaii, anyone else. And if academics are measured only by how much grant money a school can suck out of the fed's, that's a brutally poor way to determine academics. What every high school counselor in the state of Utah knows is that if you're not really smart, don't apply at BYU, but you can at Utah.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 3:58 p.m.

    @ Portland Trail Blazers
    TCU is affiliated with the church The Disciples of Christ, weather or not they inforce the standards as heavily as BYU is not the point. TCU is a religious school affiliated with a specific religion. Gifford said the Big 12 was religiously intolerant, which is obviously not true considering they just invited a school affiliated with the Disciples of Christ. Does this make enough sense to you or should I write another paragraph explaining it as if you were a 3 year old instead of a 5 year old as I just had to?

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 3:41 p.m.


    Nah, we don't comment on byu's desperate efforts to regain relevance just to "bolster" ourselves. For that, all we need do is log on to the BYUtv archive to watch the Beatdown in Provo.1. Oh look, there it is--on the front of the "Football' page!


  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 3:34 p.m.

    PTB -- same with Baylor?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 3:25 p.m.

    I hope this ends all of the speculation for at least a few months. I'm tired of it and I wasn't ever all that desiruous of BYU leaving independence anyway. I want to see how that plays out over the next several years.

  • ExecutorIoh West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 3:24 p.m.

    With the Big12 recovering from its near-death experience, it is becoming clear that if the Pac12 were to ever grow beyond 12 teams, it will have very few options. With the ACC, SEC growing to 14, the Big12 may in the future if it sees fit as it raids the Big East, is the Pac12 going to get left behind? There are no more AAU members within a thousand miles of California and sadly Boise State is half the research university of BYU.

  • williary Kearns, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 3:22 p.m.

    BYU honorably pulled out of negotiations to possibly be on the invitee list. After seeing Utah struggle with depth issues as they climb into the Pac-12, BYU looked themselves in the mirror, said "Utah beat us by 44 points on our home field, and look at the issues they are having stepping up a level," and correctly ran the other way.

    Very smart move.

    BYU needs to schedule 7-8 wins a year with WAC games to satisfy their fanbase. They don't care who the wins are against, they just need wins.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Oct. 11, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    Well, this really comes as no surprise to me. I've said it all along: mid-majors forever. And with that said, I have to laugh at the multitude of Y fans who mocked me for saying that.

  • PAC 10.2 Doormat Springville, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 3:09 p.m.

    Big deal. An invitation will happen when it's time. Plenty of conference alignment to happen in the future.

    Now it's time for every despondent Ute fan after 0-3 and losing Wynn to an injury again to bolster themselves by commenting on this article.

    If it makes you feel good... go for it. We're here for you.

  • flatlander Omaha, NE
    Oct. 11, 2011 2:52 p.m.

    Best for BYU to stay independent for at least another year. AFter seeing what Oklahoma did to Texas and looking at how tuff Okie state, K state and A&M are best to not jump into that bees next next year. they will have a much better record by sticking with next years schedule.

    Oct. 11, 2011 1:23 p.m.

    @truecoug1, perhaps but, I listen to 105.3 the Fan in Dallas and even the extremely pro-TCU talk show hosts (Greggo in particular) have stated that TCU got their invite because BYU all but, pulled out of discussion with the Big 12.

    Now, we really have no way of confirming exactly what happened given BYU is run much like North Korea but, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

    Nonetheless, BYU needs to worry a lot more about Independent scheduling and less about where they may fit with respect to a sinking conference. I sure hope the athletic department didn't spend the time some of us have debating on here over conference affiliation.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Oct. 11, 2011 1:17 p.m.

    The Big 12 can expand East or expand West, but there isn't too much enthusiasm to do both. TCU preserves both options and leaves the door open for BYU.

  • BYUfaninWashSt Everett, WA
    Oct. 11, 2011 1:00 p.m.

    BYU stands about as much chance of getting voted into the Big 12, as Mitt Romney has of getting the "evangelical" vote for the GOP nomination. Regardless of whether Missouri leaves or more "openings" are created in the Big 12, bible belt bias would exclude BYU, even if BYU on paper, should be preferred to other candidate schools.

  • Portland Trail Blazers Sandy, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 12:46 p.m.


    If you've ever been to TCU's campus (I have friends that attend school their), TCU feels just like any other public school such as Arizona , Kansas, Syracuse.

    You might as well call University of Arizona, Arizona Christian clearly know nothing about TCU or BYU.

    The CHRISTIAN name means nothing to them. TCU is very different than BYU.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 12:28 p.m.

    @gifford vanburen

    "So I guess the BIG 12 goes to show that it is just a religiously intolerant as it's west coast brother."

    How do you figure that? they just added texas CHRISTIAN university. Haha, just because BYU got left out don't make excuses that make absolutely no sense...

  • BlueSaint South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    Great News! I've always said that BYU needed to stay independent. The BIG-12 is just not what it used to be. TCU? Yea, that's a comforting addition! I have a feeling someone else in that conference will soon become unhappy. Let this Indie move get somewhere! With ESPN, the Cougars are where they need to be. I have a strange feeling that somehow, someway BYU will come out on top when everything settles.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 12:16 p.m.

    Reading the article, I don't think that the OU's president's view of BYU has been soured at all. He said he would prefer looking east for expansion from a geographical standpoint, but said that they had great choices both in the east and west.

    My opinion of this whole deal (and obviously this is coming from blue-tinted glasses) is that TCU got the invite ahead of BYU because if they didn't get invited now, before they became full-fledged members of the Big East, then the Frogs would have to wait the 27 months before they could switch conferences. I think BYU may be the contingency plan to take Mizzou's spot if and when they leave.

    It sounds like the Big XII anticipated Mizzou staying for 2012, but now if Mizzou leaves after next year, BYU is the best candidate to take their spot if the Big XII wants to get back to 10 schools immediately, since any of the Big East schools wouldn't be able to join for 2+ years.

    All of this is pure conjecture on my opinion, just like all the other rumors out there :)

    As it stands now, bring on independence!

    Go Cougars!

  • Portland Trail Blazers Sandy, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 12:08 p.m.

    What BYU needs to do is an independent is start making new rivalries with teams that you can play every year like Notre Dame does with USC, Michigan, Purdue, etc.

    BYU needs to have and make rivalries with schools they can play against every year such as TCU, Hawaii, Notre Dame, Boise State, a southern Cal school--maybe UCLA, an east east school--maybe it will become Georgia Tech,and maybe another school like Kansas State or Minnesota.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 12:00 p.m.

    I am happy to see them stay independent for at least another year or two. If football does go the superconference rout, which I don't think will happen for several years at the earliest, BYU will be in. There are several schools in each major conference who deserve to be there far less than some who are not there yet.

    Oct. 11, 2011 11:44 a.m.

    @Gifford, it has nothing to do with religion at all. It more than likely has to do with BYU pulling out of discussion with an unstable league.

    Check ESPN dot com. Missouri has now been granted another year to drag this mess on as they decide what they want to do. BYU wants no part of that and even as a fan who would prefer them in an AQ conference, I don't either.

    I do however believe the difficulties with BYU from the previous discussions have soured OU's President's view toward a future invite though.

    Sounds like they had best get to work on Independent scheduling.

  • Gifford VanBuren Holladay, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 11:32 a.m.

    So I guess the BIG 12 goes to show that it is just a religiously intolerant as it's west coast brother.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 11:31 a.m.

    I have it on authority from a pay site that quotes an article that was posted on a fan blog three months ago which claims to have talked to a person close to the negotiations with special inside information about the contract details. BYU has the invitiation in hand, and will accept this weekend or the next but definitely before the Mayan calendar runs out.

  • D'Anconia Providence, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 10:46 a.m.

    So little TCU with its insignificant fan base jumped ahead of everyone in the Big-12 invite queue line. Good for TCU!