TCU, not BYU, ends up receiving Big 12 invite

Louisville, West Virginia also possibilities

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  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Oct. 11, 2011 2:14 p.m.


    Are you're inferring that Frog fans didn't travel all the way to Utah, Wyoming, and California in MWC play as evidence that their fans don't follow their team? Well, what if they didn't have to travel over 1,000 miles to see their team play? In the Big XII, they'll be within a much more commutable distance to Austin, Waco, Lubbock, Stillwater, and Norman.

    As for Bowl allotments, Utah was allotted 15K tickets for the Sugar, and 20K for the Fiesta. I don't know what the Rose allotted TCU, but I'm pretty sure it was more than 3-5K.

    TCU got the invite because they were a more attractive program:
    -(1) better football
    -(2) better geography
    -(3) better cultural demographic
    -(4) more historic rivalries

    According to Big XII Presidents, the Y takes a back seat to TCU.

    And I concur.

  • HS Sport Dude South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2011 7:49 a.m.

    Just wondering if all the BYU Fans that think you are part of something really special (either now or anytime over the past 30 years) realize that your Cougs are 94-160 against BCS schools or Independents.

    Not too impressive and for sure not reflective of a School with a great history and tradition unless beating MWC and WAC schools is thought to be impressive.

    BTW...Big SEC Fan. Real college football for over 60 years. Now that's tradition and history.

    Sure makes me want to go buy a hat with a big Y on it or get a "Band of Brothers" shirt, or "Rise Up", or go for the "Quest for Perfection", or whatever you come up with next. How about scheduling 3 SEC teams in a season along with 3 Big 12 Teams, and 3 Big Ten Teams. Your Indy excuses. Play a real schedule.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 11, 2011 12:07 a.m.

    @Naval Vet,

    What is a Team's allotment for a bowl game???? 3k? 5k? I don't know and I don't think you know either... BTW, big deal on the numbers.... Here's what I do know... They hardly had anyone show for League games at BYU and even the poorly attended Utah games.... They never have more than about 20 or 30 show up for the MWC Basketball Tourneys in Las Vegas which I regularly attend....The Rose Bowl,Fiesta Bowl,Orange Bowl and Sugar Bowl games are always sold out.... Usually before the Bowl even knows who is playing.... Heck, I think that even the college 40 miles north of Provo could sell out the Rose Bowl which only goes to show that it really doesn't matter who plays.

    For you to say that the Gate Draw is not as much of a consideration as a team winning the last three to five years just shows that you really don't know what you are talking about, A common theme that runs through most of your comments.

    TCU got the invite primarily because they had "no conditions"... BYU does have conditions, as well they should, considering that it is the Big 12.

    Oct. 10, 2011 11:02 a.m.


    "BYU hesitated; TCU did not."


    "BYU had conditions; TCU did not."


    "BYU wanted stability first; TCU offered to help stabilize."

    Partially agreed. Agree that BYU wanted stability first however for BYU it is a matter of survival. BYU would basically have nowhere to place their sports if they were to join the Big 12 only to see it fall apart in a year. Joining without the binding tier one and two TV rights agreement signed would have been dangerous. TCU is willing to take that risk but, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Texas and OU depart once the current TV contract expires. They aren't going to want to stick around for a smaller chunk of change which will be the case when it's renenogiated with TCU in play.

    "TCU has been to two BCS games; BYU has not. (same as Pac 12 decision)"

    What is the Pac 12 decision? I see what you're inferring however that's acting as if BYU was in consideration for a Pac invite. We all know that this has never been the case.

    Also, if visits to BCS games were a criteria conferences would be cutting the majority of members.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Oct. 9, 2011 6:58 p.m.


    TCU sold out all their allotted tickets to both the Fiesta and Rose Bowls of 2009 and 2010. And if the Big XII cared more about stadium attendance than BCS bowls, and if they cared more about how strong a team showed 20 yrs ago than how well they've performed within the last decade...

    ...then why did they choose TCU over the Y?

    Face it...BCS bowls and recent success is the more desired metric than how many Holiday Bowls a team went to [and lost more often than not to be exact] back in the 80s. Edge: TCU

    Result: TCU to the Big XII; the cougars to the WAC.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 9, 2011 1:30 p.m.

    @naval vet.... I actually have a home in both Oregon and Texas and spend about 6 months in each place during the year... My wife is an OR resident and I am a TX resident.... I have businesses in both states. One could have learned that by simply googling "poyman".

    Contrary to what you say, the B12 doesn't care if Conferences don't care if a team has been to a BCS Bowl or not.... They do care about tradition, they do care about the schools ability to generate revenue...And they care about the school's facilities.... Both BYU and Louisville beat TCU on all fronts.... TCU has a small stadium (less than 40,000) and seldom generates a crowd larger than 30,000 (even when they were winning...TCU also has a horrible reputation in Hoops, similar to the school 40 miles north of Provo...

    BYU and Louisville would have brought new markets to the B12 and a much larger TV audience (meaning more money)... TCU is probably the worst traveling school in the MWC... TCU will prove to be as much of disappointment to the B12 as the school 40 miles north of Provo will be to the PAC10.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Oct. 8, 2011 9:18 p.m.


    "Nobody cares whether you have been to the BCS once, twice, or three times...."

    I'm sure nobody cares about that in Provo...especially since your cougars have NEVER been to the BCS, but elsewhere in the college football world, that holds a lot more weight than how many fans run through their stadiums' turnstiles. People will tune in to watch good football, and a 12-0 Rose Bowl TCU team will draw more viewers than an 6-6 New Mexico Bowl cougar team. And since TCU has had significantly better success on the gridiron than the Y has over these past few years, it makes sense that a troubled Big XII conference, fighting for survival, and surrounded by the SEC, the ACC, the B1G, and the Pac-12 -- all stronger conferences who could easily poach the strongest institutions with the Big XII -- would look to invite whichever program has the greatest propensity for success. And that's TCU; not the cougars.

    "For the Record, I live in Texas."

    For the record, your hometown profile says you live in Lincoln City, OR.

    And ALSO for the record, I live in Philadelphia. Nobody here cares about the Y except Y alumni.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 8, 2011 7:53 p.m.

    @Moderate.... One more thing.... Nobody cares whether you have been to the BCS once, twice, or three times.... That is all a thing for the last 5 or 10 years... I guarantee you that they care less about that then National Championships and Heisman Trophies.... BTW, how many have you and your team up north won???? (crickets)...

    All reports that we hear down here in Texas have BYU as being a prominent power on the courts and on the fields.... Athletically BYU garners alot of Respect as well they should... They have pretty much owned the B12 over the years.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 8, 2011 7:43 p.m.

    @Moderate... I agree that Stability is a key concern for the Big 12 (behind Financials and Reputation).... But still a bad business decision... Conferences like to believe that other Members of the Conference will carry their weight... Will TCU?? NO.

    How much television does TCU drive??? Little to none....They can't even fill up their sub 40,000 stadium when they are winning.... Will ESPN/ABC or FOX think that they are more valuable than a BYU or Louisville??? NO... The Big 12 negotiates bigger contracts with larger viewership, and Louisville and especially BYU generate a much larger television audience than does TCU...

    BYU also drives Gate Receipts at away games as well or better than 70% of the current B12.... Ask the ADs.... That fact alone got them a conditional invite to the PAC 10 back in the 80's.

    BYU has a much stronger Stronger Stability Resume than TCU.... 2 Conferences over 50 years (and the founder of both of them).... And BYU and Louisville have much greater Name Recognition than does TCU which would significantly help Conference Reputation...

    If T-Boone and the B12 are simply recreating the SW Conference with the inclusion of TCU.

  • Dbig1 PAYSON, UT
    Oct. 8, 2011 10:36 a.m.


    Alex Smith? Are you serious bringing him into your argument! Are you sure you want to focus on quarterbacks of the Utes and Cougars The Superbowl is the highest achievement in football. MVP of the Superbowl is the highest individual achievement in football. Owning a Superbowl record that may never be broken is historic. (6 TD passes) Being a graduate of Brigham YOUNG University and the great - great - great grandson of the individual the University is named after is PRICELESS!

    By the way, all those accomplishments happened within the last 20 years! Until the Utes have an MVP of the greatest sporting event in football you shouldn't compare Utah quarterbacks in the NFL to BYU. You make yourself look silly!

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2011 9:53 a.m.

    poyman: "It was a bad business decision to add TCU to the Big 12"

    The Big 12 didn't need new revenue or viewers. They needed a quality replacement that wanted to be in the league. The decision was "stabilize and stay in business" instead of "make BYU happy while more teams leave the league".

    BYU hesitated; TCU did not.
    BYU had conditions; TCU did not.
    BYU wanted stability first; TCU offered to help stabilize.
    TCU has been to two BCS games; BYU has not. (same as Pac 12 decision)

    IF (big IF) the league decides to go to 12 teams, then the league will need more revenue. The current teams aren't going to dilute their millions per year, just to get to 12.

    BYU could bring in some revenue, but could they bring in $15 to $20 million a year? If they could, why join a league? What 12th team could bring in that kind of money?

    The league made a very good business decision.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Oct. 8, 2011 4:34 a.m.

    Memo to all the BYU haters. Some of you have predicted the slow and steady demise of BYU athletics, but here's my question.

    Do you really want to see that happen?

    Think about it. Those of you who hate BYU truly need them to stick around just as much as those who love BYU. If Cougar sports were to go the way of eight-track tapes, what would you have left to troll about?

    Sure, you could troll about the ups and downs of Utah State or Weber State, but would it really be as satisfying as trolling about the Cougars in Provo?

    Imagine if Pringles got rid of all their potato chips flavors except Original. For those of you who enjoy adult beverages, imagine if the only alcoholic drink left in the world was 3.2 beer.

    The fact is, no matter what conference BYU sports teams are in, or not in, the more they are hated, mocked and trolled against, the greater the hidden message is revealed. That message is, "Don't go away BYU! We hate you too much to see you disappear."

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 8, 2011 12:38 a.m.

    The Big 12 would probably be better named "The T-Boone Pickens League", or maybe the "Oklahoma State Alumni Preference League".....

    It was a bad business decision to add TCU to the Big 12.... They will bring no new revenue, increase recruiting competition in the state of Texas and particularly in the Dallas area, it will add very few additional viewers, and the facilities will be among the worst in the league....

    I know that BYU is probably a pain in the hind-side to deal with (i.e. no Sunday play, restricted sharing of information on Financials, BYU HD TV, and probably a host of picky opinions and requirements on Revenue Sharing, Stability Guarantees, Etc.... But Byu would have brought their league more stability, more fans, more exposure and alot more revenue... They also would have brought better facilities and better overall competitivness.... Louisville would probably do that as well...

    All in all, it was a bad decision by the league.... But I'm sure that T-Boone is dancing.... After-all, in his eyes they dodged the addition of a Cult in a Bible Belt league...

    For the Record, I live in Texas.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    Oct. 8, 2011 12:01 a.m.

    sammy g and duckhunter where were you the week after the utah byu game???vacation in Tabionia??


    In the fetal position. Called in sick for a few days.

  • Duckhunted highland, utah
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:51 p.m.

    sammy g and duckhunter where were you the week after the utah byu game???vacation in Tabionia??

  • SyracuseCoug Syracuse, ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:34 p.m.

    If BYU had an offer on the table and turned it down I think it's safe to say that coach Rose will be gone after this season. I hope I am wrong and their never was an offer, but it would be nice for BYU to explain what happened. Like I said, if it was Sunday play, I support them 100%, but if it was about something else........I can't think about it anymore. I have a bad feeling that something big is going down in college football and BYU will be left on the outside looking in.

    I love BYU and my Cougs, but there is an air of arrogance down in Provo that I am not comfortable with in regards to this Big 12 expansion fiasco. Stop talking about national championships and exposure and just win games and the rest will take care of itself.

  • Stackhouse paradise, nv
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:23 p.m.

    scott182. I hope the U gets back on track tomorrow against ASU. They are way too talented to be down for long. Good luck to all Utah based teams this weekend!

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:10 p.m.

    Well Osgrath, you must be an alumni of Ricks/BYU Idaho....You obviously don't care about the University deciding to kill its Athletic Program... Truth is that I wouldn't mind it either if it was a voluntary act.... I have problem with the fact that it seems to getting done involuntarily by some incompetent and ignorant Administrators who are charged with the responsibility of making our programs examples of Excellence.... Holmoe needs to be gone... And, for the sake of the good guys (like Rose) I hope they move to a school that is serious about winning and being the best that they can be...

  • scott182 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:03 p.m.

    Good luck to BYU, their day will come for sure... They have big, fast players, it is a well run team. Pretty much seems like they already are a BCS team. BYU will be just fine.

    -ute fan

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:24 p.m.

    This is absolutely ridiculous.... I have followed BYU athletics for 50 years, and I was even a BYU Athlete for a couple of years and never have I ever seen the BYU Athletic Department and the President of this school handle a situation so poorly... The whole effort to become part of a BCS Conference and compete with some of the best in Collegiate Sports seems to have been PATHETIC at best.... All the way down to the PR Strategy.... Not even letting the Fan Base know what is going on... In my mind there is no acceptable excuse...

    We go to Independence to get exposure with our $100M HD TV capability and when we have an opportunity that is far better than independence, we blow it. I predict a sharp REDUCTION in BYU fan interest in BYU Sports, quickly followed by attendance and terrible success in recruiting....

    Sometimes school Administration seems to take advantage of the Obedience Behavior that is REQUIRED of our culture...I'll sign up for following that program on Religious Issues, but it doesn't cut it with me on Athletics and garnering fan support across the continent...

    Holmoe needs to be fired tomorrow, right behind Samuelson.

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:38 p.m.

    Knock knock, delusionalBYU fans........there has not been any discussions between Big 12 officials and BYU, NONE, just the folks at Texas when the Y played them. There is NO invite, nor will there be. BYU is not liked or wanted.

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:34 p.m.

    @SyracuseCoug, I'll chime in when i feel like it. I'll read the box score and hopefully SJSU will beat the lowly mid-major cougies.

  • SyracuseCoug Syracuse, ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:21 p.m.

    Mgr63, put your money where your mouth is, if you're not going to watch BYU game, then I expect zero posts from you after the game Saturday. But I have a feeling I am wrong and you will watch every second of the game and posting like a madman after its over.

  • SyracuseCoug Syracuse, ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:18 p.m.

    Back on topic now, if BYU was invited and they turned it down due to Sunday play, I will support them 100%. If they turned down an invite for any other reason, I will vomit on my keyboard. Sorry, I love the Cougs, but this independence thing can't be the long term answer. Its like turning down a date with the cutest girl at school because you think "It would never work out." She could have been the love of your life, sure she has some issues, but who doesn't?

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 7:20 p.m.

    To those that don't get TCU being escorted by two BCS conferences...they just won the Rose Bowl. They busted the BCS twice. They stomped Utah.

    Do that BYU and you will get invited.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 6:49 p.m.


    So, you were in college in 1984 which makes you something like in your MID 40's and still dating. No wonder your still dating, your hatred has been going on for so long that you can't see past it. It must be a lonely life you live, no matter how many "hot dates" you get. Are you like Chris B and still living with your mommy? Inquiring minds want to know.

  • boatersteve Fruit Heights, Utah
    Oct. 7, 2011 6:26 p.m.

    Left out of the BCS left out in the cold again.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 6:16 p.m.


    I know a good phychiatrist who could help you with your obsessive hate of all things BYU.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 6:12 p.m.

    @Serenity Now | 10:26 a.m. Oct. 7, 2011

    Uhhhhmmmm, I think you are in the minority. Spout all you want, oh heck, why don't you just go hop on the Utah wagon, I am sure they will make you happy. I am sure BYU is not going to lose any sleep over your decision.

  • Osgrath Provo, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 5:22 p.m.

    The sun will come out, tomorrow, you can bet your bottom dollar - whether BYU joins an AQ conference, remains independent, or disappears into the sunset. So many firmly held opinions on this board, so much ignorance of what is really going to happen. I'm not embarrassed to say I have no idea how this is all going to shake out.

    It doesn't make me better looking or more prosperous because BYU wins a conference championship or doosn't belong to a conference at all. Following the 1984 national championship I did start making a lot more money, but that was because I got a better position in my career.

    Too many people hang their self-image and self-esteem on whether BYU does well or does poorly - those who want it to fail (if that happens, what will they have available to hate?) and those whose life fulfillment would be a national championship. Reading the comments here, I wonder if I am somehow out of the loop because I find fulfillment in areas outside of football. My family, my work, my hobbies all bring me more fulfillment. I watch BYU football because it's fun, not so I can live.

  • usbummer LEESBURG, FL
    Oct. 7, 2011 5:20 p.m.

    I am a Big 12 fan and it does not surprise me that the Big 12 added TCU. I was hoping they would go outside Texas for their additions, but TCU is a quality addition. Their overall record against Oklahoma is 4-7-0, and against Oklahoma State is 9-11-2. This is certainly respectable. According to an online version of the Daily Oklahoman, an Oklahoma City based newspaper, it is expected that Missouri will join the SEC and that BYU will then be the logical replacement. Then, perhaps, and expansion of two more schools by adding, perhaps, West Virginia and Louisville or Cincinnati to return to twelve might be the next step. I am just a fan but I don't think BYU is out of the mix at all just yet. But if BYU is interested, I think they should make this known to the Big 12.
    Just one man's opinion.

  • Stackhouse paradise, nv
    Oct. 7, 2011 5:13 p.m.

    Mgr63. You say you are not going to watch the BYU game this weekend. What makes that statement so hard for me to believe is that you are on here incessantly obsessing and ranting over BYUs every little move. You have mentioned in the past that you are a BYU hater. Thank you for the honesty. Some people love to hate, its what drives them, motivates them, and gives them purpose. Going on a date is a waste of time compared to fulfilling your greater purpose. You are more dedicated to BYUs downfall than that. Thats how I know you will watch the game. For what you do speaks so loud I cannot hear what you say.

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 5:12 p.m.

    For BYU, it is still about exposure. The goal of the church (even in sports) is to rais awareness about the faith and allow people to learn about the Church. Friday night firesides are not "extras" that Bronco does on his own. Now that Henry B. Eyering head the Church Education department, he requires weekly firesides from his teams as they travel. From what I hear, the stake centers are packed.

    Henry does not care who we are playing against as long as the above-mentioned goal is accomplished. BYU has a disadvantage in many way but will always have a large, loyal fan base.

    I realize that many of the fans don't want to hear that the Big 12 is not important to the leaders in Salt Lake. As a Utah fan, I want BYU in a conference so they don't become irrelevant. The rivalry is fun but I do see that what many of the fans want and what the guys in SLC may want something different.

  • SpanishImmersed Mesa, AZ
    Oct. 7, 2011 5:09 p.m.

    TCU has inherited TAMU's 2012 conference schedule.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 5:03 p.m.

    OK. This article just proved it again. The Big 12 is flirting with BYU, maybe without an invite. They are holding the bait.
    I just don't think BYU is biting.

    BYU will not get the invite if they don't show some enthusiasm for the looks.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 5:02 p.m.

    You Utes ready for another attempt to win against a BCS opponent??? I do believe #22 ASU is going to give you another 'Welcome Wagon' gift to add to your collection.

    0-3 ... get ready for that all too familiar fetal position!


  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 7, 2011 3:49 p.m.

    @Stackhouse, I will have my hands full with my "hot date" without question. I don't care to pay attention to BYU vs SJSU.......yawn.........I will tune into the TCU game and my alma mater, UH. Other than that, BYU's sad season is over. %
    4-10 is quite nice too!

    Oct. 7, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    "MGR63 says he isnt going to watch the game Saturday night because he has date with a hot chick. Picture in your mind his date with this hot chick. Rubber neck around the waitress every other minute to see if BYU is winning or losing on the TV in the corner at Applebees. Check the blackberry to see if anyone has made any responses to his comments hate filled comments. Show her his highs when Riley Nelson is stopped on 4th and 1 at the goal line. Show her his lows when Travis Tuiloma sacks the the SJSU causing a fumble and Kyle Van Noy returns it 65 yards to for 6 points. Does anyone think he will get a second date. I highly doubt it. Someone in Dallas needs to grow up."

    I live in Dallas and know all about his type. He's what we refer to as a "$30k per year millionaire." He lives in the smallest apartment in Uptown Dallas, leases a three year old 3 series BMW, and he drinks Southern Comfort with a lime. His credit cards are maxed, dates are few and far between, but he's the man because his boys say so!

  • GoGetter Sandy, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 2:24 p.m.


    Let me remind you of something:

    PAC invites:

    Utah 1
    BYU 0

    Big 12 invites:

    TCU 1
    BYU 0

    It doesn't matter who wanted who first. Utah joined, BYU didn't. I suggest you start looking for another team to cheer for, for soon BYU will be a nobody.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Oct. 7, 2011 2:01 p.m.

    Haha! I have to laugh at all those frantic and emotional cougar fans who have been openly pining for a Big XII invite now "explaining" the reasons they didn't get one. And all those explanations portray the Y as the one who was in control of the negotiations all along, and COULD have accepted the invitation if they WANTED to.

    But it's just not so.

    The facts have been plainly reported: The Big 12 had NOT extended an invitation to the Y. EVER! The Big 12 does NOT issue "secret" invitations. This is evidenced by the FACT that TCU has received a PUBLIC invitation, but have not yet accepted it. Ergo, [public] invitation FIRST, decision to accept or decline, LATER.

    There have been NO legitimate verifiable reports the Big 12 invited the Y. Not from ESPN/media, not from the Big 12, and not from the Y [cougar fan blogospheres don't count]. The Y had not accepted an invitation because no invitation had been offered.

    The Y's own athletic department stated nothing has changed since before the Big 12 expressed their inclination to expand. Yet cougar fans don't believe it. Cracks me up.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 1:51 p.m.


    So much for your rant about the PAC 12 schools being anti reglious and thus anti BYU. Washington just hired Michael Young as President, a Mormon, and former advisor to the First Presidency on freedom of religion matters.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    Oct. 7, 2011 1:36 p.m.

    If BYU were involved in talks with the Big 12, Holmoe will never say anything about it. Holmoe is big on keeping quiet until a contract is signed, in case something goes wrong. It's like waiting to announce the engagement until after you propose and she says yes.

    I think BYU should stay how they are now unless the Big 12 comes up with an offer that is undoubtedly better than the current circumstances (which may be better than some would think). Remember that Holmoe doesn't announce games against teams until the contract is signed, so just because he's silent doesn't mean that talks aren't happening.

  • Stackhouse paradise, nv
    Oct. 7, 2011 1:20 p.m.

    MGR63 says he isnt going to watch the game Saturday night because he has date with a hot chick. Picture in your mind his date with this hot chick. Rubber neck around the waitress every other minute to see if BYU is winning or losing on the TV in the corner at Applebees. Check the blackberry to see if anyone has made any responses to his comments hate filled comments. Show her his highs when Riley Nelson is stopped on 4th and 1 at the goal line. Show her his lows when Travis Tuiloma sacks the the SJSU causing a fumble and Kyle Van Noy returns it 65 yards to for 6 points. Does anyone think he will get a second date. I highly doubt it. Someone in Dallas needs to grow up.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:57 p.m.

    Bluto | 9:33 p.m. Oct. 6, 2011
    Why do you care what BYU does or doesn't do?

    ---------- -----------

    It's probably the same reason you care so much about Utah's future:

    Article: 5 not-so-obvious moments in Utah's Pac-12 invitation

    Bluto | 6:15 p.m. July 1, 2011
    If Baylor had been accepted with the addition of 6 Big-12 Teams to the Pac 10 Conference, Utah is still in the MWC... Titanic's maiden voyage had her partiers also, like Titanic, the Utes are headed for an Iceberg.

    Speaking of sinking ship: 54-10

  • Ironman SANTA CLARA, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:50 p.m.

    Attention boys and girls:

    BYU is not interested in joining the Big 12 because it does not compete on Sunday. Many of the Big 12 teams compete on Sunday.

    This is why you have not heard from BYU. Understand?

  • RantBully Bend, OR
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:33 p.m.

    BYU has to defeat top ranked teams if it wants to be invited to the big conferences. BYU has failed to consistently win big games so not getting an invitation by the conferences makes sense. I enjoy BYU football and hope for their success each year, but it is probably best that they are independent considering the ESPN television deal and dislike by other schools for BYU's religious values. But, if BYU does not win the big games, even ESPN might decide to look elsewhere for future television contracts. BYU must show themselves to be a football power each year if it wants conference invites, television contracts, recruits, and wins over Utah. Otherwise, all these articles speculating about BYU being invited to join a conference is pointless.

  • Outsider Looking In BOISE, ID
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:31 p.m.

    And for anyone who honestly believes that BYU sports is a legitimate missionary tool for the LDS church should reexamine their thinking. After having lived in the Mountain West, Midwest and on the East Coast, I have never encountered a Mormon convert who said BYU sports was a factor (unlike youth church sports programs, which I have mentioned several times). Unless you believe that all exposure is good exposure for a church (patently false), my experience has been that most folks around the country have a negative view of Mormonism because of BYU sports, not the other way around. This is particularly true amongst the set which tends to follow college football.

  • Outsider Looking In BOISE, ID
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:30 p.m.

    To the BYU apologists who think everything will be fine: if Missouri decides to stay in the Big 12, BYU's one (and probably only) chance to ever join an AQ conference is gone. I, for one, think this would be tragic for BYU, and their football program in particular. To argue that when all of the dust settles BYU will "of course" be included in a super-conference is naive. There is zero chance of a conference ever kicking out underperforming schools--once you're in, you're in for good unless the existing conference is pillaged by another. There are already too many teams, why would they exclude existing members for the sake of new members?

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:23 p.m.

    The Big East - West Division scenario espoused by y-ners sounds interesting, until you consider that BCS AQ status would not be a sure thing.

    With only 6 BE members from this year, a "new" Big East's AQ status would be subject to the byzantine formula of points and the records of all its members. The MWC would have a better shot at AQ status than a "new" Big East.

    Wouldn't that just chap the hide of all the y fans clamoring for attention? Especially since their ESPN/BYUtv/WAC TV schedule won't outdraw "The Dick Van Dyke Show" reruns on TVLand.

  • Salemite Salem, Ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:03 p.m.

    Let's just play some football! Utah - - good luck tomorrow. You have a tough game and you need to win it. Otherwise, I think your Rose-bowl hopes will be dashed if you lose.

    BYU - - - Play fundamental football tomorrow. Stop turning the ball over! You should pull this one off if you stick with the fundamentals.

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:02 p.m.

    @jake2010,you are spot on sir! Not many watched BYU get crucified ny Utah. Nobody is watching BYUat all. Their best rating was against Texas, at 1.7. The 12th most watched game that week. That is why BYU has only two ESPN(2) games the rest of the year and ESPN will dump them before next year ends.......they have to......with those sorry ratings.

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 11:54 a.m.

    Just a little note about the 'national' audience that watched the Utes clobber the Cougars..... Outside of Utah I imagine most other television sets were tuned to the much more intriguing and national implicating game between Oklahoma and Florida State... I'd say less than 1 million were even tuned in to ESPN2 that night. But, nice try as usual to make a ute victory larger than it ever truly could be. A+ for effort but Z+ in effect.

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 7, 2011 11:34 a.m.

    @UU#2,TCU brings 15+ million people in to old rivalries. If SMU gets invited to the Big 12, there will be multiple millions that will be in the tv game. BYU doesn'tfit in at all. The culture, the academia, the geographics, popularity,etc........BYU is an aberration at best. Oral Roberts and Liberty are their contemporaries.......maybe?

    Oct. 7, 2011 11:24 a.m.

    Mormon Ute, you nailed it with this one bro. I couldn't have put it better myself. It is nice to see some well thought out posts as opposed to the mind numbing garbage often posted by mgr, Naval Vet, and Pac12Proud to name a few. Differing opinions are welcomed but, data to support one's stance tends to be a missing element from their posts.

    We may never know what transpired between the Big 12 Conference as BYU is about as secretive as the North Korean regime. There is however as you pointed out, a big disconnect between the desires of General Authorities who govern the school and a large sector of the BYU fan base.

    Even though I am a BYU fan, I am very glad I graduated from Texas where I can rest assured sports is not going to go away. Unfortunately, I think BYU may very well be headed down this path if the events of the last few months are any indication. Kind of a shame to see this as well as a rivalry die but, it is what it is.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 11:22 a.m.

    Wow, such hateful comments. Why do BYU fans sit at the bottom of a barrel laughing at those on top of them? And why do the Utah fans that are on top have to make fun of BYU for being at the bottom?

    Things might change. BYU might end up in the BIG XII (But oh no! what will all those conspiracy theorists down in Utah Valley find to complain about then? Will it be because there is a secret agenda to bring in the dreaded cougs just to later destroy their program?)

    Why not just stick to facts:

    1) TCU is a much better conference citizen.
    2) BYU has a long history of being disliked by the majority of their conference peers (and it is not because BYU is the bestest in the universe)
    3) BYU would bring in more money than TCU
    4) TCU will bring in close to the same amount of money as Texas A&M took out.
    5) Andy Dalton has a humongous following of Christians in the NFL and has made many Christians fans of football who otherwise would not have watched a game.

    Theory: TCU has a larger upside potential

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 11:11 a.m.

    Cliff Notes - Big 12/Y meeting.

    Coach Mendenhall (CM)
    Big 12 Interim Commissioner (IC)
    Director of Athletics at BYU (TH)

    TH: The Y ( Brigham Young University; in Utah; not SLC Provo) wants to help the Big 12 exist but first what will the Y be given if we become members? Is that the same Notre Dame would get?

    CM: The Y is The Churchs university. Would you like to know more? We won the national championship. Yes, football. 1984. We were all quite young then. Football is our number 5 priority. Reilly cut his hair. It grew 3 inches since the last time I saw him. We would be honored to be in the same conference as Iowa State. Weve always said how strong they are. We both played Utah recently with similar results and Im not certain the best team won in either game.

    CM: Agreed. We wont call you. Well wait for your call.

    IC: Ill show you the door.

    TH: Thanks, we can find it ourselves.

    TH: We just got Jimmered.!

    (at press conference: TH We met. There was an agreement. The IC made an offer and we declined.)

  • D'Anconia Providence, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 11:06 a.m.

    I'm worried about Dick Harmon. Has anyone seen him since TCU got the invite?

  • Terry Sandy, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 11:02 a.m.

    Hold on right there to the BYU haters/Ute fans... Many many Big XII sources including their prior conference commissioner have confirmed BYU was their first choice. So, for the BYU haters out there that would rather bag on the rival than go support your own team, do the research and you will see BYU Pres Samuelson is the one that was not crazy about the Big XII and killed it for them. Along with a couple million Cougar fans, I will admit he is extremely short sighted and has done extreme harm to the future of BYU sports by not jumping in with the Big XII. I hope many cougar fans/donors make their voices heard about their dissatisfaction about his job performance and something is done about that.

    Before getting crazy with your "nobody Wants" BYU rants (caused from 40 years of playing the red headed step child to BYU) let me remind you that most Pac 10 athletic directors polled wanted BYU, NOT Utah (far superior fan support/more ticket sales+TV), but 2-3 anti religious school president vetos were enough to force them to take their Plan B (Utah).

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 11:00 a.m.

    TCU and its 27 fans will enjoy the Big12. I don't understand this move - other than Texas state political motives. BYU would be a far superior member of the Big12 than TCU. TCU brings no new eyeballs to TV sets, no new geographic influence, no national following. I don't get it.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:59 a.m.

    BYU is content playing powerhouse Gonzaga and Pacific and being able to control their own destiny.... right down the drain! There isn't one BYU fan out there that wouldn't be doing hand stands if the Y were to join the Big 12. This would be a HUGE promotion just like Utah had in going to the Pac 12. Make no mistake, suggesting that they are content staying in the WCC is a joke. The only thing I can think at this point is....

    1. BYU is considering leaving NCAA competition altogether in a couple of years. Bronco only signed a 3 year deal for a reason. BYU wants to see IF this independent thing works out and if not they are ready and willing to bow out of the NCAA once and for all.

    2. Tom Holmoe has lost his mind

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:52 a.m.

    Why TCU was invited before BYU:

    1. BYU's requirements couldn't be met, so BYU opted to remain independent. Thus, TCU was the B12's only choice to get another team for 2012 to replace Texas A&M. All other Big East teams have that 27-month waiting period, making 2014 the soonest the B12 would have them.

    2. With BYU in the B12's "back pocket" (can come on board in any year), they decided not to wait for TCU, which they'd have to do if they didn't get them now. The plan is to expand to 12 or 14 in a few years by inviting other Big East teams now so that they'll be in the fold by 2014. Thus, BYU can enjoy and grow in its independence for a few more years before the B12 needs them on board.

    Or, something else entirely that no one's thought of yet.

    Surprises so far:

    - Pac-12 saying "no thanks" to Oklahoma.
    - ACC taking Pitt and Syracuse.
    - Missouri wanting to follow A&M.
    - B12 taking TCU right now.
    - Big Ten rumor about going to 15 with 3 pods.

    Changes are afoot, and we'll all be surprised some more.

  • Laser Iowa City, IA
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:46 a.m.


    You mean like ESPN?

  • Laser Iowa City, IA
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:46 a.m.

    This is shaking down almost like utah's invite to the pac 12. First Texas, Okla etc. get invited along with CO. Then after the big schools turned down the pac 12, utah was invited. Maybe the similar thing will happen with the cougs.

    No matter what happens I think BYU with indy is in a sweet spot.

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    The Beavs will put a licking on BYU next week? Oh, perhaps...... and if they do I'd hate to see the total obliteration they put on the utes near the end of the season. The most dismal season since Fassel.

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:30 a.m.

    I remember the beat-down that Utah put on Alabama in 2008. Nick Saban, a "real" legend, said......"nobody would want to play Utah this year." That being said, by a truly great coach, with multiple NC's in this century.......two perfect seasons by Utah in the 21st century.........Utah was "still" not the best team in the country. I,as a Ute fan can accept that. However, in 1984, I was a full-ride scholly golfer at the U of Hawaii in 1984 when BYU barely beat Bo Schembechler's worst team, 6-6, during his tenure at Michigan, and was arbitrarily handed the most bogus NC in sports' history........everything changed after that atrocity. It had to! I was was in shock, as was the rest of the world! BYU was not a decent team, let alone a national champion......are you kidding me? Now, BYU can't even much for a BCS conference considering such a joke of an institution?????? Oh my goodness?

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:28 a.m.

    One poster made a truth.... In this article anywhere does it say TCU accepted the invite?

    In any press anywhere is there a tried and true statement that BYU will NOT be getting an invite to the Big XII from those CLOSEST to the situation?

    Quit talking 54-10. It is a route of insignificance when the reality of the no fun TUN can't even win a conference game until the patsies sitting with them in the cellar Arizona and Oregon State are that week's opponent. And that only IF they don't find a way to byu their way to a loss as was done against Washington. Yes, the current team lost by 44 points because of laughable turnovers, but a former player coached the opposing team to a 5 forced turnovers 31-14 win.

    No matter how deplorably awful the team is doing as they currently are or doing as fantastically done in years past, ute trolls will always find something to look stupid over.

  • Serenity Now Highland, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:26 a.m.

    Dear Mr. Holmoe/BYU Administration:

    I will continue to support BYU sports if:
    A-BYU joins the Big 12 (in football only or all sports); or
    B-BYU does not join the Big 12 due to the absence of an invitation or the Big 12 rejecting BYU's no-Sunday play policy or demanding B12 revenue share from BYUtv (however nominal it is).

    I will no longer support BYU sports if BYU does not join the Big 12, when it is subsequently revealed, that BYU had the opportunity/invitation but BYU administrators had misgivings about revenue-sharing, travel concerns, not wanting to offend the WCC, lack of priority given to conference affiliation, preference for remaining "independent," LDS Board of Trustees downgrading sports programs at BYU, etc.

    I don't think I'm alone in holding this view.

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:21 a.m.

    There is no doubt that BYU and the Big 12 were negotiating. But between the Sunday rule, contract with ESPN, and broadcasting rights for BYU-TV, they weren't able to come to terms. It is as simple as that. That is why BYU was dropped from further consideration even if Mizzou leaves.

    Will BYU officials ever tell us what really happened? Who knows. They may be legally bound to keep their mouth shut.. . . or maybe afraid of the public backlash if they admit they turned down an invitation.

    When you look at all the sports as a package, I personally think that BYU would be much better off in the Big 12.. . . money, recruiting, exposure, a better shot at a BCS game, . . .everything.

  • LivinLarge Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:12 a.m.

    Bronco has got to lose the "Band of Brothers" is sophomoric and other coaches have mocked his lack of organizational discipline and sophistication. NCAA Division I football is not the Boy Scouts or in Bronco's case the Girl Scouts!

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:11 a.m.

    There is no doubt in my mind BYU was considered ahead of TCU. BYU brings much more to the table in all aspects. BYU may have turned down the Big 12 or negotiations may have stalled. In any case, I believe TCU lobbied hard to get ahead of BYU. There is no love lost between the schools and I'm sure TCU would rather be in the Big 12 than the Big East. It's a much more natural fit.


    I don't see the last 2/3 of BYU's oponents ever getting better than they are this year. As the BCS conferences grow and realign the opportunities to schedule big name opponents after October 1st are going to disappear. In the not too distant future, BYU themselves alone in no man's land. I know the Brethren in Salt Lake aren't afraid of that, but at the fans prepared for it?

    Oct. 7, 2011 10:04 a.m.

    I really believe that someone at BYU needs to make a statement of something, because I think it is wrong to not say anything, they talk all this stuff about how they think they belong with the big boys and exposure, but yet there is nothing said now, the only reason I see a reason for BYU turning down the Big 12 or the opposite, is the Sunday play, if neither group budges that is the only reason, but someone needs to say something.

  • Go Big Blue!!! Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 10:01 a.m.

    It's Karma. The y was a key part of the demise of the WAC. Now they are still the bridesmaid.

    The y fans should continue to support independence. It provides a cake walk second half season that still lands a mediocre team in a bowl game and even makes heaps look good at the end of each season. Certainly beats being at the bottom of a BCS conference. An automatic bid doesn't mean much when you are at the bottom of the conference.

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:59 a.m.


    let me tell you the theory of what could happen. This isn't a doom and gloom prediction, but a different perspective taht perhaps you haven't considered.

    Let's say that conference realignment happens and BYU is not in the Big-12 or a revamped Big East.

    It is entirely possible that the conferences impose a restriction similar to waht the pac-12 has (i.e. non-conference games will be played in first four weeks of the season, after that it will take an exemption that will be all but impossible to grant). So, BYU will not be able to schedule BCS teams beyond week 4. So, many seasons will be similar to this, front loaded. Any loss will drop you from BCS consideration. Any shot at all of the national title will require two consecutive unbeaten seasons (a perfect storm could perhaps allow a one loss BYU team, followed by an unbeaten to get in, but highly unlikely.)

    Think this through. Poor schedules. Poor bowls. BYU falls. Of course the positives are that ESPN is in your corner; for now.

  • Farid @ Pocatello Pocatello, ID
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:59 a.m.

    Yeah, I'm a little bummed over this, but not in the way you might think ....

    My hope was that the BIG-12 would offer BYU the chance to join their conference, but that in the end the Cougars would turn them down. That way we could thump our chest and say "We're good enough" to be part of that conference, but chose not to.

    And really, Being in the Big-12 wouldn't bring us anything of value. Sure, it's an AQ conference, but we'd still have to win 10-11 games to go to a good bowl and win out to get to the championship game. We do that as an independent and the same thing would happen.

    But most importantly for me, the WCC is who we are in terms of values; I like it there. Also much of the BYU alumni pool is in the WCC footprint. It's a wonderful match.

    Secular Utah needs their football team to win big to succeed, and that's okay. BYU needs their football team to win, but more importantly, they need to represent our values.

    We would have had to give up too much to be a Big-12 member.

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:54 a.m.

    BYU should just look at LDS goals.........because they aren't competitive in revenue sports at all. ESPN is gonna dump BYU so fast!!!!!! The TV ratings are pathetic........even against Texas, an extremely popular school with a gazillion fans. ESPN was counting on more BYU haters watching, but it never came to fruition. That is why the OSU game is NOT being televised and they have a 10:15pm est Saturday broadcast this week. TCU and UH are the ONLY games being broadcasted on ESPN(2) for the remainder of this season. Yeah, BYU has a great fan base........really? Not even the haters, like myself will be watching this a date with a hot chick on Saturday......I'll be busy!

  • goutahutes Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:54 a.m.

    Actually two teams from the from our conference went to BCS games last year, Oregon and Stanford. Utah has gone to two BCS games, and BYU none. Get your facts right. All I am saying is it might be now or never for BYU to get into an AQ conference and I think most BYU fans agree with me.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:48 a.m.

    Who ever said BYU did NOT get an invitation? It'd be BYU if they were invited but declined and then just never said anything about it. I'd still prefer the current Cougar setup vs joining a Big12 that will face these same stability issues in 6 years. And if BYU hasn't made the current setup work by then they'll still be an available option for the Big12.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:42 a.m.

    Too much angst over this. Independence is simply a good fit for BYU and they are going to be just fine in indepedence. I like it and I am happy with it. There are definately some positives that would come from being in a conference like the Big12 but there are also some negatives. I really don't understand why so many of you are so caught up in this and think it has to happen for BYU to survive. I don't buy that at all. BYU will be just fine. More than fine. They'll thrive.

  • Mosesstone1980 Las Vegas, Nevada
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:42 a.m.

    Mack Brown on the radio today said they want the Big 12 to stay regional. They don't want to force fans to have to pay $1000.00 bucks 3/4 times a year to watch their teams play.
    BYU may have never really been in the mix all that much.

  • Big J Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:35 a.m.

    I know a lot of you believe the BYU spin on independence. Lets be honest. It is just spin. BYU has coveted a Pac invite ever since 1984. When Utah received (what in their minds was their invite) BYU threw a fit and pushed common sense aside and took a money grab and the poor independence rout. BYU could have been looking forward to games with TCU, Air Force and Boise State that actually mean something. Yes they probably would have been losses for BYU but still would have meaning.

    If BYU gets an invite to the Big 12, they better snap it up or once again they will be on the outside looking in. If like some suggest, BYU has different motivations then being competitive, winning conference championships and having access to BCS bowl games, just state what it is and we can all stop thinking it is the above mentioned standards for excellence.

    Go Utes!

  • RC2179 Herriman, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:23 a.m.

    This should not necessarily come as a surprise to anyone, especially BYU fans. TCU has been much more successful than BYU in recent years, at least in football. Apparently, a decades old National Championship isn't worth nearly as much as many would hope it might.

  • souptwins Lindon, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:20 a.m.

    Here's what the columnist in Tulsa is saying this morning. Who know how accurate but it's the best explanation we're getting with no officials stepping to the mic.

    "While BYU was thought to be ahead of TCU on the list of potential candidates, the Cougars' chances have reportedly dropped the past few days.
    "There is some rigidity at BYU in terms of what they will and won't do," said a source of the school, which doesn't play games on Sunday. "Some of it has to do with church rules, and also the way they engage with media partners."
    While BYU remains a possibility, sources said Louisville would likely be next in line either if Mizzou leaves or the conference expands back to 12 members."

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:18 a.m.

    Let's be serious here for a minute. Let's put the rhetoric and the talking points aside and talk about this logically.

    As I am writing this, TCU has all but signed on the dotted line. That gives nine teams solidly in the conference. Missouri would like to leave, but the Big 10 is just not interested, at all. In an unofficial poll, they have 6 votes for SEC membership and they need 9. Most of the SEC holdouts prefer West Virginia (according to reports) so that it keeps divisions in tact. (FWIW, Auburn wants to jump to the east division).

    In all likelihood, Missou will be forced back to the Big 12. That gives 10. The Big 12 has maintained taht they are comfortable with 10, for now. If they decide to add 2 to get to 12, look for them to go with Louisville and Cinncinnati. That gives the conference a logical pair that fit in geographically, culturally, and athletically. BYU is nearly 900 miles from the nearest big 12 school...

    And add to that that BYU will ask for special treatment, I just don't see it happening.

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:07 a.m.

    Ballroom dancing and non-NCAA sanctioned rugby doesn't mean anything to the Big-12, or anyone else for that matter. BYU is an odd, non-mainstream academic institution that has a struggling football team that can't recruit anyone, play decent ball, been beaten badly by poor teams, ever pound any decent team = irrelevance, and a basketball program that has done NOTHING on the national stage, EVER! Utah has been to four final fours, a NC, a NIT and Billy McGill made Jimmer Fredette look like a stooge. Look at the stats!!!!! No comparison whatsoever! What, Shawn Bradley, the dud, is your only NBA player before Jimmer and after Ainge, pathetic? Utah has many great NBA players after Ainge. BYU got creamed by a VERY marginal, young Utah squad with a gimpy, glass-jawed QB. 54-10 is absurd! Really, a darn joke!!! BSU, TCU and Utah are BCS busters and all have giant wins over great competitors. BYU hasn't done anything of note in 20 years in any sport! Max Hall is scooping ice cream at the "Creamery" and Alex Smith led the SF 49ers to victory this last week! Need I say anymore?

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:07 a.m.


    keep dreaming buddy.

  • Salt lake teams rule Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 9:00 a.m.

    Sorry, but one more question for byu fans, 53 - 10?

  • D'Anconia Providence, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:59 a.m.

    PAC 10.2 Doormat 

    Snapping the football to the quarterback is a real skill.

    Falling on a muffed snap is a real skill.

    Throwing the football away instead of flinging it back into the endzone is a real skill.

    Catching an end-over-end kickoff is a real skill.

  • Salt lake teams rule Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:59 a.m.

    Did anybody mention 53 - 10?

    How about PAC - 12?

    Or Jake Heaps? (seriously I can't even right the last one with a straight face, he is terrible)

  • Salt lake teams rule Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:56 a.m.


  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:44 a.m.

    I get a kick out of those who are falling all over themselves laughing and making fun of BYU for not getting invited, turning the invite down(or whatever happened). They laugh now becuase that is the type of people they are(laugh at what they perceive to be anothers misfortune). I am perfectly happy seeing what happens with independence for a couple of years, or more. BYU will not get left out when the final "top tier" of college football is eventually determined if / when it comes to that. BYU's priority is to get as much exposure as possible for their Football team and the LDS church. If the BIG 12, or any other conference is not on board with that(broadcast rights etc.), BYU won't make themselves available. If they inform the BIG 12 what their concerns / needs are, and the BIG 12 did not want to concede what was important to BYU, then BYU will not be invited / join. The anti-BYU folks, for some reason, think that BYU is desperate to get into the BCS now. They are trying to force BYU values(square peg) into their limited thinking capacity (round hole).
    It is amusing.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:43 a.m.

    @ Stenar
    "No one wants BYU."

    So......what you are saying is the Man Upstairs is a "no one"? ;-)

  • AFCoug Colorado Springs, CO
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:39 a.m.

    I like the Big East, West division. Think it is a bit far fetched but it would ensure 6 BCS confernaces continue to exist. Big East would be able to get better with the best non-bcs schools in the west. I disagree with the school choices though. The West division would be better served with

    Air Force
    Boise St

    Not sure CSU has done enough to get BCS status although a move to the Big East may greatly improve the program.

    Play 5 division games and 3 cross division games given all schools exposure across the country. That would leave 4 non-conferance games.

    For basketball you could have an agreement to play each division opponent twice while playing playing out of division schools only once.

    There are serious logistic problems which is why I don't think it will happen but hey, the Big East invited TCU and that made no sense at all.

    Oct. 7, 2011 8:39 a.m.

    I am the first to admit that I am surprised that TCU got picked up first by the Big 12. Even I thought BYU would get the first invite. Not sure what it means but I don't think this is good news for BYU. I think it would be great for the state to have two programs in big conferences. Great for the money and exposure. However at this point it looks like all the attention for now will be centered on Salt Lake and the Utes.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:24 a.m.

    It is so funny to listen to all the UTE fans spelling the demise of BYU football like as if they know everything. Yep, I agree, BYU may never get an invite because of their religous beliefs and some (not all) UTE fans will always spill their religous hatred no matter what happens. If BYU did have negotiations and they didn't work then so be it. Super conferences don't matter, there is still no play off system so, no matter what, the NCAA has to allow all teams no matter what their status is to play for a national champinship. The only way that changes is if all the superconferences leave the NCAA and form a new league. Could that happen, sure since it is all about the money now and it will start to look like a minor league for pro ball.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:17 a.m.

    How much would byu be fined for leaving independence?

  • GoGetter Sandy, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:12 a.m.

    And so the panic begins...

    I bet reality is starting to sink in.

    I wonder if Holmoe regrets jumping ship so fast after Utah went to the PAC?

    TCU now has a better shot at a NC than BYU does, well... everybody in an AQ conference has a better shot.

    I would be worried if I were a Cougar, BYU is getting left out and soon to be irrelevant.

  • Mr. Obvious Sandy, Utah
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:10 a.m.

    I made this cal weeks ago, I lived in Texas and know how they think. Texas ALWAYS looks out for their brothers.
    Kinda like the Band of Brothers, but they live it.

  • nuff said LEHI, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 8:02 a.m.

    Armchair, Utah will collect more from the tv deal for pac 12 championship game this year than the payout was for 1 yr in mwc. That is not zilch as you claim. Regardless, 20m a year in a couple is well worth any waiting period. You'd do the same unless you are really bad at math.

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 7:58 a.m.

    but, but, but, We are BYU! We got Jake Heaps! We even got Adam Pulsipher! How are we being left out? Dick Harmon told me it would happen! So did Greg Wrubell! wah wah wah!


  • ExecutorIoh West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 7:54 a.m.

    Another complication that doesn't seem to have been discussed is all the contracts that BYU has in place right now. It is clear that the Big12 needs a team right away to fill the hole left by TxA&M. With TCU moving to the BigEast, they have nothing but a $5M exit fee, which I am sure will be negotiated down. BYU has contracts to play independently in bowl games for the next three years that would need to be cancelled (early termination fees expected there), there are contracts in place to play 12 teams next year, and 8 in 2013. The contract termination fees for BYU to cancel all but 3-4 games would be enormous. I am sure that the Big12 knows this. They went for the safe and easy move to grab TCU. If the Big12 is forced to grab another team for next year, then I am sure they will come for BYU. Only because the Big East is requiring 27 month notice on Louisville or Cincy. If the Big12 invited BYU with a year or two before joining the conference it would avoid a lot of contract problems.

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 7, 2011 7:44 a.m.

    The only contact BYU has had with the Big 12 is when they played at UT. It was broadcasted all over Texas that BYU was talking to Texas, Texas only, that weekend. BYU has NOT received an invite, PERIOD! There are schools like Baylor and Oklahoma, possibly OSU as well, that would most likely "veto" a BYU possible invite. All this hype is just that. Big 12 officials have been shown and heard on Big 12 tv shows constantly stating interest in TCU, Houston, Louisville, West Virginia, Cincinnati and SMU as "possible" new members of the Big 12. Only pundits and BYU fans have said anything about BYU joining. There has not been ONE school official or Big 12 representative EVER mention BYU, other than UT said they spoke to BYU.......end of story. BYU is a BCS conference "black sheep," rightfully so.

  • sixpacktr Lancaster, NY
    Oct. 7, 2011 7:37 a.m.

    Good. The Big12, like the BigEast, is dying anyway. I like the independence thing. I hope that BYU stays indy for years to come. More flexibility to play other teams and get even more exposure. And that will lead to even better recruits that will help them compete. Being your own boss has a LOT of upside to it...

  • armchairQBonthehill Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 7:24 a.m.

    Nobody has mentioned this yet. Its Sunday play. Sunday play is part of the concessions the conference wants since the Big 12 already plays about 25% of its basketball games on Sunday and word on the street says they want to maintain and possibly expand that television presence. I for one am okay with THE University in Utah sticking with its principles on this one. All you yackers know little about what $$ have and will continue to change hands between BYU and the ESPN family. It is probably quite a nice package. Utes on the other hand are collecting how much this season? Zilch I believe . . and next year . . only a pro-rated portion of their PAC 12 booty. Besides the ESPN package is so much more slick and professional than Fox Sports (Utes/PAC12)its not even funny. I'm okay with independence if it continues to deliver the nice line up of teams - we can't be too disappointed with Ole Miss, Texas, Utah, Central Florida, TCU, Oregon State, and Hawaii . . and even San Jose State looks to be much improved. Good luck Cougs!

  • DC Alexandria, VA
    Oct. 7, 2011 7:02 a.m.

    If it was Sunday play - fine - I can live with that. If it comes out that it was anything else, it was a terrible decision to not pursue Big 12 membership. BYU will be nothing more than an exhibition team for the church - it's got nothing else to play for.

  • PAC 10.2 Doormat Springville, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 6:51 a.m.


    What's important to a real U fan, beating BYU or having some sort of validation that being in the Pac 10.2 really means something?

    Yes, BYU is having a few problems. No team will win a game turning over the football as many times as happened in the BYU / Ute game. That was proven by the Utes last weekend. Forced turnovers as opposed to foolish personal mistakes prove that 'dumb luck' often decides games as opposed to real skill.

    The problems the Utes are facing is like for the rest of the season. BYUs schedule going forward will be weaker and will yield a winning season unless 'luck' would have that all of the bench QBs are taken out in injuries. Utes... not so much.

    And for all of the hype that the Utes were going to be a competitor in their first season in the Pac 10.2... It was never meant to be because the coaching staff forgot to go deep in the QB position.

    All of the hype of dominating the South Division, just that. All of the hype to go to Pasadena, gone. BYU will get its invite... in due time

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 7, 2011 6:47 a.m.

    BYU fan, this is why no one likes BYU. You act very entitled, you act as though these big conferences owe you something when in the past 10 years you have blown your BCS chances. You still walk around like Vegas Bowls are National CHampionships. You treat "good enough" as though it is BCS worthy and are smug about only to be beaten down 54-10 by teams you call doormats.

  • Bluecat82 Minneapolis, MN
    Oct. 7, 2011 6:03 a.m.

    I'm not as optimistic as some...I believe now BYU will be forever on the outside looking in...

    Either the Big XII said no to us or we said no to them, for whatever reason(s), that door appears to be closed...

    The Big East is on life support...

    The ACC, SEC, or Big Ten? Please...

    The Pac 12 has already spoken - BYU will never be invited even if they expand to 30 teams (Sacramento State would get an invite before BYU)...

    The Big XII was BYU's last hope...and I believe it's gone.

    Independence, however, is still, at the end of the day, much better than being under the rule of Hair Thompson and the MWC toadies.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 2:33 a.m.

    kiapolo1887 | 12:24 a.m. Oct. 7, 2011
    Provo, MA
    TCU got an invite, but it doesn't mean one isn't coming for BYU. Sources close to the situation say the invite to BYU is on the table in in progress. They're just negotiating the fine details.


    Where are you people getting your information?? Seriously.

    Absolutely no invite has come BYU's way. And you will find that out soon enough.

    Please people. Stop making things up. It's only gonna hurt you in the end.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 2:30 a.m.

    PAC 10.2 Doormat | 10:44 p.m. Oct. 6, 2011
    Springville, UT

    Love the silence from BYU, it drives the trolls nuts.


    From the looks of things, it's the Y fans who are going nuts.

    Most are screaming bloody murder cuz Holmoe is clamming up.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 2:19 a.m.

    From all appearances at this moment, it looks like BYU tried to throw too much weight around.

    Now the Big XII is turned off.

    And for Y fans' sake, I sure hope the deal breaker was Sunday play. Because if it was anything else, BYU may never live this blunder down.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 2:17 a.m.

    I'm surprised how many are actually claiming that BYU has an offer... but is waiting for signs of stability.

    There is not a single reason why that would make sense.

    I'll bet BYU's top football priority is to join a BCS league. So why gamble and risk being left out? If that's what's happening, that's more embarrassing than getting no invite at all.

    Let's assume the Big XII wants to stay at 10 teams (which they've repeatedly said it prefers.) BYU knows good and well the 10th team in might be the only team in. So you're telling me BYU's gonna risk losing that? No chance.

    Secondly, what does BYU have to lose? If the Big XII falls, they can go back to exact same place they are now. But if they turn it down, and the Big XII doesn't fall... BYU would be left out in the cold if super conferences happen.

    This sounds a lot like the phony "we have an invite to the Big East" claim that Y fans made last year.

    And you all know whether that was true or not.

    BYU has no invite from the Big XII at this moment.

    Oct. 7, 2011 1:38 a.m.

    "If BYU turned down the B12 (conference politics weren't worth it, concessions were not met, etc.), TCU's invite was the B12's only way to maintain enough teams for 2012."

    "BYU does not want to put it's Olympic Sports in the Big-12, the
    WCC suits them just fine.

    I really beleive this is the sang.
    BYU wants a Football only invite."

    This is the exact response heard from BYU fans after losing the recruiting battle on Chase Hansen. "We really didn't want him in the first place." "We're actually better without him." I don't know what else I expected.

  • bigutefan Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:50 a.m.

    I think the Des News and Dick Harmon are the major believers and press writers that tried to give the illusion that Provo was going to be invited to a BCS conference. Most national articles said it would make sense, due to the independent status, but nobody was jumping up and down and claiming membership considerations except the Provo press.

    Here is why it will never happen: the cheap shot that took out Oklahoma's Sam Bradford will never be forgiven. Oklahoma will never vote for Provo to join. Second, the drama that is associated with Provo is too much for most any conference. No Sunday play, along with compliants that they are not treated fairly wear on a conference commissioner. Finally, political issues such as Prop 8 doomed the possibility of Pac-12 membership and continues to haunt Provo's possibilities. You can't promote hatred towards others and then turn around and want others to be nice to you and allow you access to the big leagues, not going to happen.

  • kiapolo1887 Provo, MA
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:24 a.m.

    TCU got an invite, but it doesn't mean one isn't coming for BYU. Sources close to the situation say the invite to BYU is on the table in in progress. They're just negotiating the fine details. Once those details get worked out (including the status of Missouri) expect a public announcement... soon.

    Chill out... and DesNews, stop using misleading headlines.

  • Stenar Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:18 a.m.

    No one wants BYU.

  • PAC 12 loves U Sandy, Utah
    Oct. 7, 2011 12:16 a.m.

    Pac-10.2 Dormat is your username referring to Oregon State? Leave the Beavers alone! They'll put a beating on byu in a few weeks.

    "Two things that will never change, BYU will always get media attention and Ute fans will be bitter and jealous of it"

    I don't know if having too much media is a good thing for byu. All off season, the media hyped up how good byu will be this year. So far this season byu has been a bust! Secondly, the media hyped up Jake Hypes as a QB due to have a break out season and put up big passing yards. So far, Jake Hypes has been a bust! Last but not least; the media was picking byu to be the Big 12 conference's top candidate to replace Texas A&M. Well, TCU got that invite today!

    Thank you for your concern about our conference record so far. I guess hoping the Utes lose conference games is all you have to look forward to since Utah exposed on byu on national TV 54-10.

  • D'Anconia Providence, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 11:45 p.m.

    Yes Striker and ASU is no BYU either. Utah will have their hands full on Saturday without a doubt.

  • Andermart Pullman, WA
    Oct. 6, 2011 11:20 p.m.

    We are happy for TCU to receive this invite. They already committed to join the ACC and they may be good on their word to do that. We will see. But either will be a good conference for them. I wish them well.

    I cant wait to see if BYU has a team this weekend that can start scoring some points. If they can find those points, then I am excited for the TCU game. But I think BYU and TCU will be a great game.

  • PAC 10.2 Doormat Springville, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 10:44 p.m.

    Two things that will never change, BYU will always get media attention and Ute fans will be bitter and jealous of it.

    The invite will come or has already happened. Love the silence from BYU, it drives the trolls nuts.

    0-3 this Saturday


  • Striker Omaha, NE
    Oct. 6, 2011 10:05 p.m.

    TCU hasn't even accepted yet. Let's not make a big deal until it's final

    How's Jon Hays practice going? Anyone know?

    Didn't think so... Lots of BYU obsession though. ASU is no Nebraska-Omaha.

  • LovemesomeCougars LAYTON, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 10:00 p.m.

    BYU will be just fine with or without The Big 12. The football program will be much more recognizable in two years than most BCS schools. Don't doubt me!

    I hope they continue playing on Friday nights as the only game on TV.

    I was in Vegas for a conference during the BYU vs. Central Florida game. While walking through the packed casino at the Wynn, there were hundreds of TVs above various tables and people were glued to the game. I took a cab to a resturaunt and the cab driver was talking about the game. While eating dinner a large crowd began hooting and hollering because of the dramatic, final play.

    It has been a long time since BYU football has had this kind of exposure!

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 9:43 p.m.

    The decision not to move BYU to the Big 12 was made by a higher power -
    the gods in Bristol, Connecticut.

    BYU's vaunted contract with "partner" ESPN was their undoing.

    ESPN has a lot invested in BYU's independence, and expects a good return. A move to the Big 12 would have voided the contract and left ESPN short on its projected profits.

    One might claim "we made a commitment to the WCC", but really its about money, not moral obligations. Before BYU committed to the religious school conference, BYU sold its soul to ESPN. Quite simply, BYU's "partner" (a.k.a. "boss") said no to the deal.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 9:33 p.m.


    Why do you care what BYU does or doesn't do?

    You just worry about your Utes gaining their first Pac 12 victory.
    Ultimately, that is what it is all about, winning football games.

    Belonging to an AQ Conference, only gets you so far. Now put up or join Wazzu and the Vanderbilt's of College Football.

    And remember Utes, 11 teams from your Conference every year, will not receive a BCS game bid.

  • chubbuckidahocougfan Chubbuck, Idaho
    Oct. 6, 2011 9:31 p.m.

    After watching the team this season...BYU should ask to join the WAC so they can compete for a conference championship. They are an awful team this year and could not compete in the MWC for the title or the PAC12 or heavin forbid the BIG XI. Until they find a QB and a head coach...BYU will continue to be a mid major football team and that's all they really are.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 9:25 p.m.

    BYU does not want to put it's Olympic Sports in the Big-12, the
    WCC suits them just fine.

    I really beleive this is the sang.
    BYU wants a Football only invite.

    BYU's Independence and ESPN contract are still in place.
    Football is just fine.

    However, Notre Dame needs a place to park it's Non-Revenue Olympic sports.
    So a healthy Big East is still important to everyone.

    5 healthy BCS Leagues bodes well for College Football.
    6 (Big East) would be even better.

    An alternative which has been discussed is a Big East Western Division, Football Only.

    It would allow the Big East to keep it's BCS status.

    Call it the..... "Continental Conference".

    Should BYU feel the need to join a Conference for Football, this may be more flexible for them.

    Eastern Division

    West Virginia
    South Florida
    Cincinatti (as others leave... CFU, Navy, Army)

    Western Division: (football only)

    Boise St.
    Air Force
    Colorado State

    (all these teams deserve BCS status)

    Championship game between divisions for BCS berth, held in Yankee Stadium or League Stadiums, ala Pac 12.

    Air Force is already talking Missouri Valley for their Olympic Sports.
    WCC, WAC, could absorb others.

  • fan32 St. George, Utah
    Oct. 6, 2011 9:20 p.m.

    Why would Tom Holmoe spend time selling BYU to the big 12 when he needs to take that time figuring out schedules to play Boise State for the next 20 or 30 years. Come on BYU fans where are your priorities.

  • goutahutes Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 9:02 p.m.

    If BYU doesn't get into a BCS Conference now they never will. Smart Aleck is fooling himself, independent BYU only gets into a BCS game if they are undefeated and will not ever get into the championship game. The BCS was formed because of BYU. Get in now or forever be on the outside looking in.

  • smart_aleck VANCOUVER, WA
    Oct. 6, 2011 8:42 p.m.

    I think the Big XII knows that adding BYU would involve some lengthy negotiations and concessions, and even then, the Cougars might end up not going. Independence is giving BYU everything it needs in football and signing on with any conference would involve giving up much of what it has gained since July 1, 2011.

    What does membership in the Big XII have that would be attractive to BYU?

    1) BCS automatic qualifying (AQ) status: Regardless of membership in a BCS conference, you still have to win a minimum of about 9 games per year to get to a BCS bowl, and you still have to go undefeated to have a chance at the national title. So AQ status doesn't mean a whole lot.

    2) Money: It's nice to have more, but the Cougars' athletic program already has enough to meet its needs. And the money from a Big XII conference membership would come with plenty of strings attached.

    3) Scheduling: You get a guaranteed date with Oklahoma and Texas every year, but with independence you get Notre Dame, Boise State, Utah, Georgia Tech, West Virginia, etc.

    Big XII membership has more costs than benefits. BYU should stay independent.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Oct. 6, 2011 8:26 p.m.

    Dear BYU Fans:

    Don't despair!

    This move makes perfect sense. The BIG 12 has the choice of either expanding East or expanding West. Inviting TCU keeps both options open.

    The TCU move could cause the Big East to fold, making the "Expand East" option viable. If the Big East gets their act together, the BIG 12 may decide to look at the "Expand West" option and at BYU, BSU, and Air Force.

    For most of the day I've been hearing from BYU fans who are furious because they are convinced the University simply walked away from the BIG 12. I'm not LDS but I have a lot friends who are and I even have a couple of friends who are General Authorities. These are not stupid people. They know what a great opportunity this could be. I'm a Ute fan and I love needling you guys, but come on. There's no need to bash your school, commit Harri Kari, or burn anyone in effigy. You're day will come.

    Best of luck.

    A Ute fan.

  • usscuba Vernal, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 8:25 p.m.

    I can't believe how much hate people have for tomorrow certain football teams, get a life and get involved in something productive besides hate.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Oct. 6, 2011 8:04 p.m.

    If BYU turned down the B12 (conference politics weren't worth it, concessions were not met, etc.), TCU's invite was the B12's only way to maintain enough teams for 2012.

    In other words, if BYU ends up not part of the expansion (still possible if Missouri bolts), the B12 punted and settled for what they could get in hopes of making it look prettier over time with more BCS school additions from the Big East. TCU definitely wasn't on their list initially.

    I posted previously that to get TCU without having to wait several years, they needed to grab them now before that 27-month clause came into effect. As it is, any Big East teams they try for during expansion won't come into the conference for a few years yet.

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 6, 2011 8:01 p.m.

    @Bluto, I remember T Boone saying on Fox Sports Big 12 show about a month ago........"Who is BYU?" I fell on the floor laughing so hard.

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Oct. 6, 2011 7:54 p.m.

    Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus! Hahahahahahaha!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Oct. 6, 2011 7:48 p.m.

    Why was BYU not invited nor will they ever be?

    answer...Boone Pickins!

    A Billionaire has spoken.