Confrence was uplifting, renewing and delightful.I wish there was more,
other than the 20 years of talks you can download on your phone. It just always
leaves me wanting more.To all the grumpys out there, if you don't like it
then don't read it. It's not like your going to change anyone's mind.
Very powerful talk, he gave the people of the LDS church(Which I am LDS)
Can someone tell me how this became a comment board on polygamy? The original
story had nothing to do with it. A comment on another story I tried to
make was censored by DN they should have censored the first comment on polygamy
to be consistentIt is so off topic for this article on President Monson
To AlanW: The thing is that polgamy is a correct principle when followed and
allowed by the Lord. It was done in Old Testament times and even in some
countries carried on today. The Church doesn't practice polgamy for the living
as it has been stated. What happens after death no earthly law has authority
over. Yes, polgamy is practiced on the other side of the veil. Yes, the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does practice on the other side of the
veil. In fact, it is even taught if one cares to listen. Fact, is does it
really matter. When we say we don't practice polgamy it is true, we
do not. You will not find one member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter
Day Saints married to two different women at the same time currently. What
happens on the otherside of the veil is ruled completely and entirely by the
Lord, not by us.Whether you want to believe it or not, the children
of your grandfather has no authority to demand who he is sealed to. That is
entirely up to him. I stand by the Prophet of the Lord.
The prophet gives revelation? Since when has a Mormon prophet given revelation?
RE: MormoncowboyThe punishment fits the crime if you covenant to
live by the mosaic law.If God commands it is okay to do, how can it
not be?It is not okay for us to just go kill on our own
initiative,There are times and conditions where God has said it
is okay. (perhaps it fulfills a higher law or need or purpose) (Should God let a nation dwindle in disbelief or suffer a life to be taken?
whihc fulfills a greater or higher purpose?)God in his infinite
wisdom and understanding and knowledge certainly knows what is moral and right
and best,for us, we are to obey his commandments including those he
gives to us later,(to obey is better than to sacrifice)because we may not understand, it does not make something immoral or wrong.It is the spirit of the law that is unchanging, not the letter of the
law.Keeping God's commandments is higher than the law thou shall not
RE: the truth, answer to Mormoncowboy.In Doctrines and Covenants 136:37?
God told Brigham Young that he could not bear God's glory until he follows all
God's commandments from Adam-Joseph Smith Jr..God's laws to Moses
were guidance for the promised land, to be lived every day, where-ever they
were. We suffer consequences for failure to pay our tithes, or keep the Sabbath
day, the commanded 7th day, Saturday as a day of no work. We block the kingdom
of God for ourselves and the Jews who cannot accept a Messiah who guides against
the Law of Moses.October 8th is Day of Atonement, day of fasting and
no work. Leviticus 23 is God's promise to cut off those who will not. He
cannot lie. Our best outreach to Jews and our greatest gain in holiness is
following God's commandments. We should not risk our place in eternity.
Correction is needed from the prophet on down.
AlanW,You argument contains a fatal flaw of logic. It is the same
fatal flaw that those who condemn baptism for the dead fall into. There are two possibilities here. The LDS church and it's doctrines are
true...or they are not. Your argument loses in either case.If the
doctrines of the church are true, then the way the church handles the specifics
of temple marriage are correct in the sight of God. In this case, you are
clearly on the wrong side of the argument. If the church is not
correct, then you are essentially arguing over a brief variant of meaningless
words said once inside a temple that have no efficacy whatsoever in this life or
the next. The fact is that a man and a woman are living in an exclusively
monogamous relationship. Again, in this case, as polygamy is defined and
understood by the entire world, you are wrong.So, you see, as to the
church leaders "lying" about polygamy, if the church is correct, you
are wrong. If the church is incorrect, you are still wrong. In neither case is
the church lying, as much as you'd like to imagine they are.
Bill:I think the distinction that needs to be made here is that no
one is arguing whether mainstream Mormons "practice" polygamy. You are
correct, as clearly they don't. From the standpoint of the current model of
family life practiced and advocated by the mainstream Church, families consist
of a father (singular) and mother (singular), married to each other who raise
their children. Now, of course there are split families (I come from one
myself), where the family is a bit more ambiguous as result of divorce or death
of one of the spouse's - but, for all intents and purposes, Mormons practice
marriage where a man or woman may only be married to one living spouse at a
time. No one is disputing this!The question remains however, what
about the "doctrine" of polygamy into the eternities. While Church
leaders have clearly stated that Mormons no longer practice polygamy, they have
never renounced the doctrine that Polygamy is the Celestial order of marriage,
and that God himself is a polygamist. Further, that any Mormon seeking
exhaltation will ultimately live this higher law of marriage in the Celestial
realms, as per section 132. Mormons do "believe" in polygamy!
(Polygamy)Obviously the holy practice will commence again after the Second
Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering in of the millennium. (Mormon
Doctrine p. 578 Bruce R. McConkie)Bill in Nebraska, The law does not
carry over to death.But, We(Mormons) believe marriage is an earthly ordinance
and must be done here. We believe those who were sealed in the Temple here on
earth, and live faithful to their covenants with God, continue their family
relationships in Heaven. John Walsh ,Fair LDS.
The Truth:Read Exodus 19, about God commanding the Israelites to
kill anyone who crosses the borders set around Sinai, and you tell me about the
morals. Read Exodus 21, where we learn about the proper treatment of slaves -
and pay particular attention to who owns their spouse and offspring. In short,
if a bond servant takes a wife during their bond period, technically she belongs
to the bondservants master. If after the period of his bond is up, he would like
to keep his wife and children (presumably, some Israelites loved their wives and
children) all he had to do was indenture himself as a slave to his master
indefinately. This is all prior to when Israel supposedly broke the law by
worshipping the Golden Calf. In other words, no matter how you slice it, those
morals have clearly changed...unless you are going to argue that employers today
should be able to keep the wives of those employees who marry while working for
their company. Secondly - who says that punishments have nothing
to do with morals??? How does the administration of justice work, if the
punishment does not fit the crime? Just Deserts?
Bill in Nebraska, I do understand that it is not polygamy on earth and nobody
would even say that it was. However, if you truly believe what is taught in the
Mormon faith you will realize it is polygamy in heaven if you are sealed to more
than one wife at different times. That is my point, and if you deny that and say
it isn't you are simply fooling yourself. So, if an apostle or prophet says that
the Mormon Church no longer practices polygamy I would like to know what it is.
The Church believes that if your wife dies you are still sealed to her, thus
married to her, yet you may take on another wife. Sure sounds like polygamy to
me. But maybe I do understand it a bit better than most.
I will respect your rights to believe in the laws of your God and live as you
see fit. I will not try to compel you by legal force to obey my lifestyle. I
urge you to do the same for me.
I think it is great that we can partner with Apostles and Prophets in moving
this incredible, eternal work forward. Let us be faithful and open our mouths.
This is a great time to be a member of the Lords church. May you all join hands
with us in being the Lords hands on the earth.
To AlanW: The law of the land is that no plural marriages would be conducted in
the state of Utah for the living. If a spouse dies and is remarried and though
sealed it is not polgamy as stated by the law. The one spouse is dead. It is
no different than a spouse dies and is the other remarries whether in the temple
or not. Also, some marriages conducted in the Temple are for time only. It is
not restricted to for all time and eternity. Since, it is for time only the
marriage desolves as all time marriages at death.The facts are clear
that you and others really don't understand that polgamy is the act of being
married to several wives at the SAME time in life. The law does not carry over
to death.If you really looked into American History you would also
find that all of the brethern who were married to several wives were NOT
required to give up their wives. Also, those imprisioned were set free and
allowed to continue in their marriages without regard to the law. Also, for all
purposes the law is only for the United States.
@ the truth: and 1!BTW, Mr. Storywriter, it's a lectern, not a
podium. The only one using a podium at conference, I assume, is Bro. Wilberg
while conducting the choir.
RE: Mormoncowboy That law is part of law moses NOT the Ten
Commnadments. The law of moses was given to the isrealeite to teach
them obediance due to ther wickedness.That law was fulfilled by
Jesus Christ, and replaced with a higher law,The ten commadments
are part the higher law not the law of moses.Those laws are moral
and unchanging.Punishements have nothing to to do with morals, but
is an administration of justice according to the law.
2 Nephi Cp. 2 states that 'there must needs be an opposition in all things..' It
seems that Pagan has proved that more than correct. Pagan, you are truly blessed
that the moderators for DesNews are so willing to post a lot of what you post on
here. If you actually had something pertinent to say to the subject at hand
rather that the copy and pasted regurgitations of whatever website you have in
your favorites, we may actually take you seriously.
OnlyontheCross: Certainly the stone cut out without hands means the gospel, the
good news, that Christ suffered for our sins and that what He did will bring us
eternal life if we will accept His gift. But how do we accept His gift, if not
through repentance and baptism as He has commanded? What is eternal life, if it
is not to inherit all that Heavenly Father has offered, to be joint heirs with
Christ and to become like them, to become holy even as they are holy?
It is interesting that Monson associated the Ten Commandments with unchanging
"morals", but forgot to include the "moral" punishments that
are enumerated alongside God's "moral Commandments". For example, what
could be more moral than putting a person to death for working on the Sabbath
(Exodus 31: 14-15)? Certainly if the commandments are moral constants, then the
gravity of violating them would be just as constant. We can all pick
and choose scriptures to suit our arguments it would seem.
Just remember some of us are not in this at all. Keep it in the religious arena,
not the political arena.
Things of the Spirit can only be understood by the Spirit...if you don't have or
don't heed the Spirit, you cannot then understand spiritual things. That said,
we follow the Prophet, and if one of us is wrong, it isn't him. He is guided
and has the responsibility to declare the Lord's will to the entire world, no
other individual than a Prophet has that. It was a great conference,and
now we move on, to action based upon following the counsel given.
AlanW and Anon --This is no longer the case (regarding women being
sealed only once.) Application can be made to the First Presidency for an
exception to the "rule" you mention. The exception I note was not a
matter of a divorce, nor was the first sealing cancelled. For reasons
acceptable to the Brethren, the principle followed was (I believe), as with all
things pertainig to marriage, under the assumption that the Lord would justly
sort things out congruent to His justice and mercy. Frankly this seems
consistent with the principles relating to the relative worthiness of husbands
and wives - not everyone remains worthy of their commitments and it seems
inconsistent with the principles of families that a woman or man would be denied
marriage because they were sealed to an unworthy mate.Obviously I do
not sit in those councils, nor do I claim any special authority in the matter.
I only offer my anecdotal experience that such exceptions are made - and
personally I would defer to the counsel and direction of currently-serving
priesthood leadership in this matter. Policies change - and they will change
Anonymous, I was not wrong, in my first post I did say that a woman cannot be
married in the Temple twice. Please read it again. And by the way, when a man is
married a second time in the temple it is for eternity. If it were not for
eternity he would be married in a chapel. Maybe you should get your facts
straight. How do I know, my grandfather was sealed to both his wives and his
kids were none too happy about it.
@AlanWRespectfully, you are incorrect in your statement. A woman
cannot be sealed in the Temple to more than one man. Men can be married in the
Temple to another woman after his wife dies, but for time (mortality) only. A
woman can only be married for eternity while in this life to only one man. Get
your facts line up.
@AlanWSeems as though you take us all for a bunch of fools and you are so
much better informed. WE know exactly what he said and exactly what he meant.
On this earth today and for well over a century, the LDS Church DOES NOT
perform any marriages that are plural. End of story! P.S. Across this earth
there are tons of folks who remarry upon the death of a spouse. If the LDS
Church is not the true church what does it matter regarding these marriages and
how we perceive them?
Why would an apostle say in a speech to the Mormon General Assembly that
polygamy no longer exists in the Mormon Church. That is an outright lie. If a
man's wife dies does the church not believe that he is still married to her? Yet
he can go to the temple and marry another woman for time and eternity. He
therefore is a polygamist, am I wrong? If you truly believe that the Mormon
Church is true, you do believe in polygamy and you have to believe that the
church still practices it. If not, why can't a woman marry a second time in the
temple if her husband dies. Why does the Mormon Church not own up to the belief
that polygamy is from God and the Church still practices it. Just getting around
the law by saying that it is not practiced here on earth.
Re: OnlytheCross. Really? Who made you the 'authority' on interpreting
Biblical metaphors and analogies? Personally I don't believe in the Bible or
any other alleged book from heaven but I have a hard time seeing how you or any
other religion can insist your interpretation of Bible verses is better or more
Glad you enjoyed conference, all. Cats: It's good to be inspired, but
let's keep metaphors and analogies accurate. The great stone cut from the
mountain, rolling forth is what? The gospel, good news, is that Christ died for
man's sins and His sacrifice brings you eternal life IF you accept God's gift.
It is not that God is an exalted man and man can become one also. That is
polytheism and heresy, never taught by Christ.Be good, be inspired.
Don't rewrite God's message.
Thanks to Elder Nelson for the mention of the Yefimov's! They, and so many
other faithful Russian Saints are doing many great things for good in Russia!!
I'm so grateful for Conference and what it does for all of us around the world.
The great stone cut from the mountain continues to roll forth.
Very uplifting conference. President Monson was awesome and the conference as a
whole spoke of spiritual unity, love for the Savior and His love for each one of
us. The conference gave us a good pattern with which to elevate our own hearts
by love, obedience and forgivness while traveling toward our eternal salvation.
Awesome shout out from Pres. Monson to the youth in Georgia who participated in
the Southern Lights cultral celebration it was such a wonderful night very
powerful and the youth were exceptional! We are all grateful for the temple to
be dedicated and operating and having the prophet here was the icing on the
Conference was great!