Mike Sorensen: Time for BYU to get in before it is left out

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  • usbummer LEESBURG, FL
    Sept. 30, 2011 5:23 a.m.

    I am a 62 year old graduate of Oklahoma State University now living in central Florida. I still follow my Cowboys and this conference realignment news. I, for one, would love to see BYU join the Big 12 North. I believe that Missouri will remain in the Big 12 and that the conference will remain stable at least for the next 6 years. I would also love to see the Big 12 invite Boise State into the North Division and then either San Diego State or South Florida into the South Division to bring the conference back up to 12.

    If the conference then wishes to expand to 14, the addition of San Diego State or South Florida, which ever remains, another non-Texas school would be nice. One way or another, this Big 12 fan would love to see BYU join.

    Sept. 29, 2011 11:53 a.m.

    @niners - I could better understand your stance if there were fans of other numerous other schools on BYU's blogs constantly commenting due to the entertainment value derived. The difference is, outside of Utah, there really are not.

    Now, I agree that the hype around Heaps was a bit much as are some of the prognostications for the season. Now, I can see why they happen however:

    1. As a whole, BYU has recruited a lot better lately than they ever have. In other words, the talent level is probably a lot better than it was in the eighties and mid 90's when BYU won a lot more than they do now.

    2. BYU ended last season on a high note though now it appears mostly due to the schedule lightening up.

    3. BYU is no longer in a conference and currently doesn't have a tie to any worthwhile bowl. So, Heaps preseason comments about focusing on the National Title may look funny because of how they've played but, do you expect them to set a lofty goal of coming into the Fight Humanitarians bowl on a hot streak?

    Sept. 28, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    "Sorry if my lack of hatred toward BYU takes some of the fun out of your day..."

    @Utah'95 - LOL

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 10:47 p.m.


    I have to correct a few of your comments. I didn't say BYU would never be able to compete in the Big 12. I said based on Duckhunters opinion of Utah, BYU would be at the bottom of the Big 12 by a long margin this season. It is not my logic that is flawed, it is Duckhunters and that is what I am illustrating. My own posts all over the Desnews boards will bear out that I am very realistic in my expectations of the Utes and of BYU. Your post reveals you haven't followed the entire discussion nor have you followed my posts on other articles. Blame Duckhunter for putting BYU at the bottom of the Big 12, because if the Utes are as bad as he says, that's where BYU would be.

  • AntelopeValleyUte Palmdale, CA
    Sept. 27, 2011 6:52 p.m.

    Sometimes I wonder if Deseret News writers write stupid articles like this to get their fans all excited about BCS chatter dealing with BYU. I think BYU wants any kind of publicity in any way, shape, or form to market themselves as a house hold name. They would pay big money to have taken the 54-10 loss to Utah on ESPN back. Bad publicity and exposure for its sensitive feelings. They are being very cautious about expansion with the Big 12, because they don't want to look stupid or get rejected for fear it will look like they are desperate to join a BCS conference. Therefore, they are arrogant and think like they have the money and power to do whatever it is they want in college football and it will be the BCS that will lose out on a deal with BYU and BYU doesn't need the BCS, but that the BCS needs BYU (TO PUT IT BLUNTLY).

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 4:34 p.m.

    @ Mormon Ute

    Apparently you missed the Texas-BYU score of 17 - 16. BYU was ahead for 3 quarters. So they indeed did play very well in Austin for 3 of 4 quarters and were not buried or intimidated by Texas, a Big 12 school that is nationally ranked. So just because Utah trashed them (congrats to them for following their game plan and playing very well) doesn't mean that BYU will never be able to compete in the Big 12----they've already done that and came closer to defeating Texas than Utah did to beating USC. Your logic is certainly flawed by looking through those "crimson" colored glasses all the time.

    I was actually at the Texas/BYU game so I know that about which I am talking. We visited with dozens of Orange-shirted fans and to a person they said two things:

    1- BYU fans showed up in numbers that exceed Oklahoma, and
    2- It would be great to have BYU in the Big 12.

    These were fans that have been following Texas and Big 12 sports for generations, unlike Utah fans who crow about 'everything Utah' since 2004.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 4:21 p.m.

    Where did Duckhunter go?
    Long time passing,

    Where did Duckhunter go?
    Long time ago.

    Where did Duckhunter go?
    Went to Tulsa, everyone.

    But now he has returned,
    But now he has returned.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 1:38 p.m.


    I answered your question yesterday. I believe my comment is on page 4 of this board. It is called the WCC and BYU's commitment to the WCC with its Olympic sports. The LDS Church does not want to offend the Catholic Schools by pulling out of the WCC after just becoming a member. Even Dick Harmon (the Chip Brown for all things BYU) failed to point that out in his article.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 1:18 p.m.

    nosaerfoecioveht | 12:36 p.m. Sept. 27, 2011
    NSL, UT

    I agree. The better the competition BYU plays, the better for everyone. Those athletes deserve to have access to the BCS (as does Utah State).

    Ducky won't respond to anything seriously.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 12:36 p.m.

    Wow mormon ute is absolutely owning the duck right now. This is priceless. I'm sure he'll keep avoiding the question.

    On a side note, I haven't talked to or seen a comment from a single Ute who would care at all about BYU going to the Big 12. I think it would be a great thing if it actually happens.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 12:23 p.m.

    @ pugman

    Go to the Sltrib and conduct the same survey bud....This is a BYU biased company so of course more BYU fans are on it. In the sltrib typically Utah articles have more comments.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 12:11 p.m.


    You are correct. The Y's days are numbered if they decline an invite however I doubt an invite will even come unless the Y really promotes itself to the Big 12 in the first place so I don't think we will see a decline of an offer but rather I see the Y just sort of staying in the back ground and not really promoting itself ... for some reason. The end result is that the Big 12 is going to pick up other teams and the Y will be passed over again - not because they weren't an attractive addition to the Big 12 but because they showed little interest. The question is WHY is the Y not out promoting itself to the Big 12? No one seems to know the answer to that question. I think the fact that Bronco only signed a 3 year deal is very telling and perhaps gives us a hint as to the future of BYU athletics.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 12:08 p.m.


    Maybe I can help you a bit.

    The latest ESPN Power Rankings have the Big 12 ranked #1 with the Pac 12 ranked #4. In the AP rankings the Pac 12 is 5th. You say Utah is in the bottom half of the 4th or 5th best conference in the country. That same Utah team just trounced BYU and BYU hasn't done anything in any other games to suggest this was an aberration so it looks like they really are that bad. I would say that would put BYU at the bottom of the Pac 12 which would also put them at the bottom of the Big 12 way below the current bottom team in the Big 12.

    That being said, maybe the Cougars are the ones afraid of BYU going to the Big 12, not the Utes. You allege we Utes are commenting on this article out of fear that BYU might actually accept an invitation. I say you Cougars who are claiming you don't need the Big 12 are more afraid of the Big 12 than we are. Did I make it relate to the article enough for you?

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 11:51 a.m.


    As has been pointed out by many already, your credibility is in the negative range now.

    My question is right on topic. I didn't ask what you thought about the Utes beating BYU. I asked where BYU would rank in the Big 12 given the fact that the Utes trounced them and you claim the Utes will be in the lower half of the Pac 12 and on top of that you claim the Big 12 is a stronger conference than the Pac 12. This question is in response you the position you have taken right here in comments to this article and is on topic as it relates to BYU possibly going to the Big 12.

    I don't care how angry it makes you or how hard to try to avoid this type of question.

  • Pugman TREMONTON, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 11:50 a.m.

    I've conducted my own little survey that began nearly or close to a year ago. As far as the DNews goes, at the top of their sports page is a tab for all of the Utah college programs. The one thing that is very very consistant. The amount of posts on the BYU tabs are about 5 to 1 compared with the U. About 8 to 1 compared to USU, and Weber States is almost nothing at all. I wonder why??????No....I know why, and so does everyone else....pretty sad.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 11:01 a.m.

    @ Duckhunter | 9:35 a.m. Sept. 27, 2011
    Highland, UT


  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 9:35 a.m.

    @mormon ute

    You are posting in an article that is about the possibility of BYU being invited, and accepting the invitation, to the Big12. It is not about utah beating BYU. You and all of the other utah "fans" think that just because you ask a bunch of off topic questions, with the purpose of simply trying to get BYU fans to give you answers to assuage your fragile feelings of superiority, that you are somehow entitled to answers. You aren't. I don't care if that gives you satisfaction or if it simply irritates you even more.

    If you want to discuss the actual topic then I'm happy to do it. If you want me to tell you how great I think utah and its football program are, even though it has nothing to do with this articles topic, so that you can feel some sort of vindication for your poor choice to become a utah "fan" just realize it will be a looooong wait.

    I don't owe you anything and neither does any other BYU fan. I don't mind utah "fans" posting on BYU articles, I actually like it, but I won't do anything simply because you demand it.

    Sept. 27, 2011 9:03 a.m.

    'And the infighting starts.

    "independence is the best thing ever."

    "We only want exposure."

    "Money is not a factor."

    "WCC is a great conference."

    "We think the large super conferences are bad."

    Isn't that interesting?'

    Orangebloods' Chip Brown is reporting that TCU is back in the Big XII expansion conversation due to a perceived lack of interest by BYU. There is also a line in the report stating that BYU is not concerned about the money therefore the conference's financial appeal means little to BYU.

    All of this is speculation and honestly I wouldn't waste my time until some of the Big XII's stability measures have been signed-off on and implemented. It will be at that time that BYU will publicly comment.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 8:57 a.m.


    Why won't you answer any of the questions you're being asked? Are you afraid of your own answers or just too busy deflecting attention from your own failed predictions. You and sammyg and other BYU fans were so sure of your team coming into this season and now your team is floundering. You were resoundingly beaten by a team you disdain and claim will never rise to prominence in the Pac 12. So tell us, where do you think your Cougars would be ranked in the Big 12? We want to see if your predictions for you own team will be consistent with where you put the Utes and the current performance of each team. Will you show consistency that brings you credibility or will you reveal your true motivation. Keep in mind continued refusal to reply to these questions will speak volumes.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 8:51 a.m.

    BYU fans:
    I am going to explain to you why I as a Ute fan get on your blogs, since it has been bothering you so badly.

    #1. I can't help but get on here and read about your pre season national championship predictions year after year.

    #2. After BYU loses their first game, I just cannot help reading all your comments on how your offensive coordinator is terrible, how Bronco should be fired, and how your Quarterback can't throw 10 yards.

    #3. After you get on a small win streak, BYU fans change their minds and say BYU should be in the top 25, how they will destroy Utah next time they play and how next season they will be a national champion contender.

    #4. I love reading the excuses about how you are the better team after a loss no matter how ugly the loss was, whether it was Florida St, Air Force, Utah, TCU, USU. BYU is always the better team.

    BYU fans may not understand why this is so entertaining but trust me, everyone outside of "happy valley" sure as heck does. If you want us off your blogs, quit being so dang funny!

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Sept. 27, 2011 7:58 a.m.

    For nearly 18 months BYU fans have put up with the comments about the Utes being invited to the Pac 10.2 and how BYU would NEVER get a BCS invite.

    And here we are today with all the local 'haters' and naysayers throwing a media hissy fit saying it won't happen when in fact the national consensus is that it very well could.

    The discussion was not started by a local BYU fan. Seems that Duckhunter is once again spot on.

    Whether or not BYU gets the invite or accepts it, the story IS driving several Utesies nuts.

  • CaliforniaCougar Lake Elsinore, CA
    Sept. 27, 2011 12:46 a.m.

    BYU, hold out! The Big 12 will eventually bust. Let the SEC take Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas.

    Then, the Pac 12 will see the writing on the wall and will be forced to take four more teams. If so, they couldn't possibly bypass BYU again. The other three could be TCU, Texas Tech, and Boise State. With the natural rivalries in the original Pac 10, then you could have BYU/Utah, TCU/Texas Tech, and Boise State/Colorado all paired up.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 11:24 p.m.

    Independence is working out perfectly for BYU; substantially increased revenue and exposure this season, over what BYU would have had being stuck on the MTN, and by being independent, BYU doesn't have to worry about Craig Thompson trying to sabotage BYU's move to the Big 12 in 2012.

  • BYUHSeasiders Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 10:46 p.m.

    @DD JayMario
    You obviously don't follow BYU too closely. The "weak" schedule only lasts for 2011 and 2012, then they schedule bigger named teams. In 2012 Oregon State, Notre Dame and Georgia Tech are scheduled. Last time I check they were BCS teams.Future schedules are getting BCS schools. Typical of BYU haters they only look at now and not the future. Keep a close eye on BYUCougars.com and see more new teams pop up for future years.

  • The Cucamongan Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 10:32 p.m.

    AD Holmoe talks about how Independence is all about increased exposure. When compared to the MWC, I agree. However, by being part of the Big 12 with annual matchups against Oklahoma, OSU, Texas, and Texas Tech in football and Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma in basketball, now that is exposure!!

  • AZ Ute Scottsdale, AZ
    Sept. 26, 2011 10:12 p.m.

    Random thoughts...

    So BYU would be in a conference with a school that believes it is better than everyone else? They would finally know how Air Force, Colorado State, New Mexico, San Diego State, UNLV, Utah and Wyoming have felt all these years.

    To join that Big 12 they first have to get it past our Big 12.

  • uteowl Sunnyvale, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:52 p.m.

    "How about just being in a conference with Texas? BYU has to ask itself, if it wants to be in a conference with a school that seems to think it is better than everyone else."

    ROFL The pot calling the kettle black.

  • deseret pete robertson, Wy
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:35 p.m.

    BYU is capable of making their own deceisons without the help of the sports reporters.When their decision is made you can report it.

  • idaho cougar fan Twin Falls, ID
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:33 p.m.

    Just like most Ute fans, I would rather see my team go 7-5, 8-4 and play good competition than go 11-1 or 10-2 against mediocre competition. Utah jumped at the prospect for 6-6 to 8-4 records for opportunity to play in the Pac-12. BYU should do the same. Rather see K St., T Tech and Ok. St. than SJSU, NMSU, and ISU on the schedule. Playing OU and UT more would be awesome too. If the conference implodes, go back to being independent or better yet, have a chance at a super conference. Win win in my eyes. Church still gets exposure and fans get to see better competition win or lose!

  • 4YNWYOMING Evanston, WY
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:20 p.m.

    I certainly do understand the mission, however, I am sure that all those boosters who donate tons of cash for the football program, would love to fly their jets to Texas and Oklahoma every now and then. I would. Much better than going to Idaho State or any other C-USA location. The program will never be validated unless you play with the big boys, like Utah is doing this year.

  • GoGetter Sandy, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:49 p.m.

    If BYU declines an invite if they get invited, you can kiss BYU athletics goodbye!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:31 p.m.

    So far 6 of you have commented back.

    Hook. Line. Sinker.


  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:17 p.m.

    Folks, Duckhunter likes to think we Ute fans need to put down BYU to prop ourselves up, because that is his own problem. If you've followed him at all on these comment boards he hardly ever says anything positive about the Cougars without including some Ute bashing. You'll also notice no kudos to the Utes for our win just statements of how horribly the Cougars played. He has serious difficulties dealing with reality. I think he bought into Bronco's line last year about the better team not winning the game. I'm glad the Utes left no doubt in anyone's mind this time.

    I for one don't care whether BYU goes to the Big 12 or not. For the sake of the rivalry I'd like to see their football program survive, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Brethren in Salt Lake decide it's time to hang up the cleats within the next 5 years.

  • SoCalUtahFan Uteville, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:09 p.m.


    ...annual games with: USC, Cal and and semi-annual against Stanford, UW and Oregon...

    Semi-annual: 2x a year. Bi-annual: once every 2 years.


    ...BYU played horribly...

    They played? Really?
    What did they play?
    Varsity football?

  • Aggie238 Logan, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:04 p.m.

    "BYU has to ask itself, if it wants to be in a conference with a school that seems to think it is better than everyone else."

    Sounds like BYU would fit right in. Pot calling the kettle black, much? Oh, the irony...

  • SoCalUtahFan Uteville, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 6:35 p.m.

    ...Utah won't compete in PAC-12 with annual games with: USC, Cal and and semi-annual against Stanford, UW and Oregon...

    Correction...semi-annual is 2x a year while bi-annual is once every 2 years.
    Hope you can tell the difference now.

    ...BYU played horribly...

    What did BYU play? Certainly not college football--not even mid-major level football.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Sept. 26, 2011 6:28 p.m.

    It is funny for me to see how many keep thinking BYU is doing nothing about the Big 12 hoopla and that if they don't act it will be too late or, BYU hasn't even acted so now that TCU and others are being talked about BYU has already been left out of the picture. OK, simple, what facts do you all have to fall on? BYU has never shown their hand until it is time to show it. They never leak information, they keep tight about everything. On top of that, where has TCU or any other school shown a request to join the Big 12? TCU joined the Big East and that is all I have ever heard. There is plenty of guessing by media members as to what will happen but someone please show me where the schools themselves have shown the interest. They haven't because the Big 12 has been unstable. Once it gets settled then lets see what happens but speculation is just that, speculation and hype done soley by the media to get response like we see all over this blog. Give me concrete evidence and then lets talk.

  • SoCalUtahFan Uteville, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 5:55 p.m.


    ...Go easy on Duckhunter. He just finished a week of rehab and is having a little difficulty adjusting to reality. The rehab staff will render an opinion in about a week whether he can still function...

    Good point.
    I don't need to wait for the report from the rehab staff.
    Based on his posts here, I know the program failed...:)

  • Pete in Texas Copperas Cove, TX
    Sept. 26, 2011 5:52 p.m.

    @Kosta Fesenko,

    I wouldn't know... I don't roam Ute articles. If there are any there, they're as pathetic as the Utes here.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 5:50 p.m.

    @ duckhunter

    I think the fact that you think our entire "self worth" comes from BYU football shows that you take this way too seriously...I don't know about you Duckhunter, but not one of my favorite sports teams has an ounce to do with my self worth, and if BYU football determines your self worth that explains a lot, i now find myself feeling sorry for you.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 5:47 p.m.

    Better leave Duckhunter alone. Sounds like she has had a rough day.

    54-10 and your team quit Ducky.


  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Sept. 26, 2011 5:45 p.m.

    The author underestimates the WCC. They have done very well against the Big 12 in basketball and baseball.
    BYU will have its hands full in small loud gyms. And before anyone snarks about that again. Just remember that Duke also plays in a small gym.

    I don't like where college football is going on the D-1 level. It has become a business with big money. Does that fit the mission of BYU? If they don't end up in a BCS conference, or super conference. There is always FBS. At least they have playoffs and are fun to watch.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 5:19 p.m.

    Uh utah "fans" I was gone for 2 days last week, Monday and Tuesday, to Tulsa on business. I psoted here on Wednesday I believe when I returned. carnak even responded to me, she was almost giddy making a response that had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted about simply so she could try to rub in the game result.

    I don't mind. I don't mind any of you doing it either. BYU played horribly.

    You see I enjoy watching you expose yourselves here. The fact you are on BYU articles showing how badly the thought of BYU going to a BCS conference scares you is all the fun I need. If you all knew how paranoid you appear you would probably change your posting behavior but self awareness is not the strong suit of individuals like kostaarticunocoolguy that have so many screen names or any other ute "fan" trying so desperately to make their paranoid desires hold true.

    I'd encourage you to keep posting your paranoia but I don't need to. At minimum 10 of you will respond to this post.


  • ChiefSportsFan Denver, CO
    Sept. 26, 2011 5:08 p.m.

    BYU joining any AQ conference only one year after declaring independence would NOT be a wise idea, regardless of what many "fans" and some writers think and say.

    Going independent was not a knee-jerk reaction - it was a reasoned and informed decision; notwithstanding all the sophmoric yammering to the contrary.

    Let administrators and decision makers make their reasoned, informed decisions and live with them, especially if you really are a BYU supporter.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 4:51 p.m.

    It's simple to understand....

    Utah won't compete in PAC-12 with annual games with: USC, Cal and and semi-annual against Stanford, UW and Oregon

    Utah is relegated to annual finishes in lower middle of the conference. If the PAC had added the BIG 12 schools, it would have virtually eliminated the chance of Utah ever finishing in the top half of the PAC and feeling lucky to get a Vegas bowl invite.

    See, I can do it too. And it is just as legitimate as anything else here.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 4:19 p.m.

    So Duckhunter, please tell us where BYU would rank in the Big 12?

    I know you don't want them to go there and don't think they will, but I'm curious about where you would put your team. Keep in mind you have the Utes in the bottom half of the Pac 12 and even your coach admitted we have a better team than you do so be realistic.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 4:14 p.m.


    LOL!! You are hilarious. Great entertainment reading your comments. After all the hype you joined in on about Heaps and Doman what do you have to say for them now? Heaps hasn't shown up in any big games and with only TCU left on BYU's schedule, he's about out of opportunities this season. The only reason I can find for Heaps appearing to be so good in practice and then running scared in games is that the BYU defense must go easy on him.

    Doman is riding a pretty steep learning curve in his new job, but is nowhere near the OC that Norm Chow is and that is to be expected. I didn't expect Heaps to struggle like this, but I tried to warn you and other BYU fans about Doman's lack of experience and the new offense he was putting in place. Of course you said it wasn't a new offense, but just a tweaked version of the old offense. Well, now we know the offense is so new even the experienced offensive line and running backs can't make it work.

    I don't doubt that both Heaps and Doman have potential, but both are works in progress.

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 4:12 p.m.

    Lol @Pete in Texas

    no doubt that your rage is just as strong toward the BYU trolls who roam the Utah boards (though for some reason, we haven't seen them since last saturday.........odd)

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 4:05 p.m.

    AZjazzFan and Patriot,

    BYU is in a tight spot. How does BYU go about agressively selling itself to another conference when it just signed up and joined the WCC and in so doing told the Catholics that it was a long term relationship? The decision of what BYU should do next will be made in Salt Lake City not Provo. The brethren are sensitive to these matters and well versed in these issues. Most of them were around when the decision was made regarding athletics that changed the course of BYU-Idaho. I am sure they got plenty of feed back from that decision. They will make the best decision for the Church and BYU going forward. It may not be a decision that pleases all the fans. Stay tuned.

  • Pete in Texas Copperas Cove, TX
    Sept. 26, 2011 3:55 p.m.

    Okay.... first off: what in the world are we doing allowing all the Ute trolls to post on a BYU issue? Pretty pathetic that they can't leave well enough alone. They gotta post.... kinda sad, really.

    Secondly, I'm a lifelong BYU fan and if/when BYU gets an invite from the Big 12, I would sincerely hope they turn it down. The Longhorn's ego rules the roost here, (I'm in the heart of Texas), and the reason A&M left was because they were tired of putting up with the "better-than-you" attitude that follows Longhorns everywhere. BYU is doing fine. I am totally satisfied with independence. For those of you who will give up season tickets if they don't sign with the Big 12, I'd say.... sweet! BYU doesn't need "fans" like ya'll. (Folks needing to tell Tom Holmoe how to run the ship.) I don't care if BYU plays Bo-Diddley Tech every game, or worse, the Utes.... I'd be happy to attend these games. The BCS is on it's way out. No one will care about "automatic qualifiers" as soon as they're gone. It's a foregone conclusion.

    BYU.... stay. You've got my loyalty.

    Go Cougars

  • job Provo, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 3:54 p.m.


  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 3:22 p.m.

    This is so brain dead obvious it hurts and If Tom Holmoe keeps setting on his hands BYU is going to passed over yet again. YES YES YES BYU should be down on its knees begging to get into the BIG 12. Holy Cow Texas, OU, OSU, Kansas, etc.. This is a great football, basketball , track, baseball conference - better than the PAC 12!! So what if the conference goes belly up in a few years - which I doubt - if so BYU can easily return to it's independent status again if it wants to. If BYU doesn't actively pursue this opportunity and then at least EXPLAIN WHY I am saying it doesn't deserve fan support going forward. If a conference isn't going to try to be the best then why should fans fall all over themselves to buy season tickets anymore?? Something REALLY WEIRD is happening in Provo right now and I don't think too many fans are privy to it. Is BYU considering dropping NCAA athletics altogether? Bronco only signs a 3 year deal when he was offered more. I think something is up that many of us don't know about - and wouldn't like it if we did!

  • Brent T. Aurora CO Aurora, CO
    Sept. 26, 2011 3:07 p.m.

    Hopefully the Big 12 (actually 9) gets proactive about being the first conference to 16 teams (might tie with the SEC) adding TCU, Air Force, Boise State, BYU and Notre Dame for football, and then considering two between New Mexico (The Pit), possibly defecting Arizona schools and UNLV. That includes letting BYU and Notre Dame keep their television deals and niche markets. A Big XVI could be very stable and very awesome.

  • AZJazzFan Gold Canyon, az
    Sept. 26, 2011 3:04 p.m.

    I hope I am wrong but my feeling is BYU is waiting around for a possible invite but are not doing anything to move forward, just sticking to the wait and see approach. Imagine a salesman who has an excellent product and keeps it to himself. Imagine a missionary who sits waiting to be approached. BYU spends so much money on marketing itself, why not do so to the powers that be who can bring BYU into a conference and be guaranteed every year to play with the big boys. Who knows, some new rivalries may develop.

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 2:55 p.m.

    Duckhunter -- great to have you back.

    I for one think it would be great if BYU was in the Big 12. That means Texas and OU come to the state of Utah every other year and Kansas basketball every year. That would be great as a sports fan. I also can see the merits in the Y staying independent. I think that route is a better fit for the mission of BYU. I am OK as a fan of both schools either way. I see it as a win/win decision.

    I will tell you the same thing I have been telling my Utah brothers over the last year and half. Why not just be excited about your own team having a shot to get into a BCS league - rather than trying to make it some sort of "rivalry" point? Does it really matter what league either side is in for the "rivarly" if we aren't in the same league? The game matters less and less as new rivarlies are formed.

    In a perfect world, Texas, OU, Kansas and BYU join the Pac to make it Pac16 and we get the best conference in the land.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 2:54 p.m.

    Kosta Fesenko | 2:37 p.m. Sept. 26, 2011
    Chicken McNuggetville, UT

    ... or once you have lit up these message boards with your dilusions (see his prior comments about Jake Murphy, every Utah rb and qb, Whittingham, etc etc etc) and your team takes a 54-10 pasting, you aren't big enough to come back with some sort of regret. Instead, Ducky disappears for days and days until he thinks it is safe to reappear with the same old tired banter.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 2:54 p.m.

    Go easy on Duckhunter. He just finished a week of rehab and is having a little difficulty adjusting to reality. The rehab staff will render an opinion in about a week whether he can still function. LOL

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 2:37 p.m.

    I find it amusing that Duckhunter makes these blatantly inflammatory comments and then says that people are "obsessed" with him when they respond to him. Is he 10 years old?

    Its pretty sad if you require an anonymous internet message board to make yourself feel better about life.

  • SoCalUtahFan Uteville, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 2:33 p.m.

    @Duck Hunter

    I actually don't care whether BYU will join Big-12 or not.

    I do understand if BYU does not want to join.

    Yearly games with Texas, OK, OSU, Tex Tech, Iowa State, Kansas, KSU will be very difficult for Cougars. So I will not be surprised they will decline if the invite comes their way.

    By the way, has it been 2 wks since 54-10--why are you out posting already?

  • Pac12Proud SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 2:19 p.m.

    "BYU has to ask itself, if it wants to be in a conference with a school that seems to think it is better than everyone else."

    Classic comment, Robinson. I would argue that the Big12 needs to ask itself if it wants a school in its conference that seems to think it is better than everyone else.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 2:13 p.m.

    @ Duckhunter | 1:14 p.m. Sept. 26, 2011
    Highland, UT

    Wrong again as is your constant pattern. I hope that BYU gets into a BCS conference because not only does the football team deserve a higher level of competition than they currently enjoy, but the other sports deserve it too. Playing the best competition week in and week out is what true athletes desire. You on the other hand? Probably not.

  • SoCalUtahFan Uteville, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 2:09 p.m.

    @Duck Hunter

    I actually don't care whether BYU will join Big-12 or not.

    I do understand if BYU does not want to join.

    Yearly games with Texas, OK, OSU, Tex Tech, Iowa State, Kansas, KSU will be very difficult for Cougars. So I will not be surprised they will decline if the invite comes their way.

    By the way, has it been 2 wks since 54-10--why are you out posting already?

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Sept. 26, 2011 2:03 p.m.


    I can only speak for myself, but as a Ute fan I am not threatened by the possibility that BYU may get a Big 12 invite. In fact, I hope it happens.

    BYU has a long history of having a solid athletic program top to bottom. They are deserving of a bigger stage, and being a Big 12 member would be a good fit.

    I wish the Cougars good luck, but hope the Ute win all the head to head matchups.

    Sorry if my lack of hatred toward BYU takes some of the fun out of your day...

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 2:03 p.m.


    "I'm with you on BYU fitting the value the Big XII is looking for"

    Just what values are you talking about? Here are some facts: Both Texas and Missouri are members of AAU (Association of American Universities) that elite group that includes Cal-Berkeley, Stanford, Washingtion and UCLA---schools that BYU fans claim kept BYU out of the PAC 12 because of differences in culture and "values". Most Big 12 Olympic sports play some competition and most championship games on Sunday. The polls in most of these states Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas show that most of the people will not support a Mormom presidential candidate. So, please tell me how BYU fits "the value the Big 12 is looking for..."

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 1:51 p.m.

    @kosta fesenko aka "articuno BYU" aka "officer coolguy" aka "duckhunter hunter"

    I love how obsessed you are with me. You have replaced failstorm as my number one fan!


  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 1:49 p.m.

    @Duckhunter 1:14

    I think the Duckhunter has finally snapped.

    I guess spouting Utah hatred and "inarguable" predictions for months on end, only to realize you set yourself up for the most epic fail these boards have ever seen, will do that to you.

    At this point it's just kind of sad.

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 1:38 p.m.

    I don't know a single Ute fan who would be bothered in the slightest bit by BYU going to the Big-12. In fact, BYU and Texas deserve each other. Two programs with an inflated sense of how important they are. Both like to be the top dog, even when their performance doesn't warrant it.

    As far as Duckhunter accusing others of being "obsessed" with BYU.....bwahahahahahahaha! If there was a feature that ocunted the number of posts on a particular forum, quack boy would be #1 on the Utah forum. Pot....meet kettle.

  • desert dweller SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 1:33 p.m.

    maybe BYU should just get out of sports completely they dont play on sunday and the rest of the teams have to. and save me all that religious speech the begining of the end of BYU football ? good !

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 1:14 p.m.

    @utah "fans"

    LOL again and again.

    yes utah won that game, I'm not making any excuses for it but it is obvious none of you has any decent response to what I posted in this article. All any of you can do is deflect away from it. The truth is you're obsessed with BYU and your entire sense of self worth is derived from saying "we are in a bcs conference and you aren't". Pathetic but hilarious for us to read, over and over again.

    The truth is the possibility that BYU might actually go to the Big12 is killing you guys. You cannot handle it. You post on every article about it saying "it will never happen" or "nobody wants BYU" or whatever other peice of pure fiction you can think of because this simply crushes you.

    I personally am not sure I would want BYU to go to any bcs conference let alone the Big12 but I absolutely love reading the angst that ozzes from your keyboards over the possibility. It is obvious that you are all obsessed haters.

    Please keep it coming. LOL!

  • bballjunkie Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 1:14 p.m.

    PAC12 Fan:

    All those things are true. So whats your point? great post. However, let me help even with all that stuff said if you can go into the Best conference in the country for football and basketball then get real its a no brainer.

  • Benderman1 Layton, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 1:00 p.m.

    BYU will not keep selling out games if their competition week in and week out is San Jose State, Idaho, and New Mexico State. The Big 12 has some bottom dwellers too but at least those games would be meaningful as far as conference standings are concerned. BYU needs to start marketing itself to the Big 12 or they will get left behind.

  • UtahMan4evr Sandy, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 12:40 p.m.

    I know it kills you rabid BYU fans that Utah is in a BCS conference and BYU is not, but I think it's time to face facts. If the only conference BYU can get into is the Big XII, you're better off waiting 3-5 years. The Big XII will more than likely be dead in a few years, despite the platitudes of the big boys like Texas and Oklahoma. If the Big XII survives and BYU becomes a member, BYU can't compete on a regular basis with the likes of Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, etc. BYU will, if lucky, win one game out of four against the real powerhouses and will become the Baylor of the West. If allowed to keep the ESPN deal, how much of that will be eaten up in traveling to Big XII sites. BYU will probably be forced to subsidize the travel of the other schoolsas well. And when the Big XII collapses, BYU will be left on the outside looking in in much worse shape than it is now. Get over the conference envy and consider what is best for your school!

  • CALUTAZ Peoria, AZ
    Sept. 26, 2011 12:34 p.m.

    I agree with 'Pragmatic'--Perhaps it's time for BYU to get out of intercollegiate athletics entirely. It's one thing to display BYU student-athletes as 'a light set upon a hill which cannot be hid,' and quite another to desire to 'play with the big boys' for the sole reason to receive worldly fame and glory. Just between us, that sounds wholly like the wrong reason. I'm proud of BYU (Class of '79), but it seems that the athletic department is more prone to shoot itself in the foot of late. BYU-I lost their highly-successful intercollegiate athletic program and they're doing just fine. You cannot say that desiring to be in the mis-titled Big 12 is compatible with the mission of the LDS Church. It is not. It's time to get out now and truly be an example to the world.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 12:15 p.m.

    Does BYU want to jump into a conference with Texas who thinks that they are better than everyone else. Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. The Y would fit in there just nicely with Texas. The Y thinks that they are better than everyone else right now. They have the best fans in the nation, even though all of them were leaving at the start of the 4th quarter of the Utah game. They have a huge stadium, with the best fans in it, which by the end of the season will be half empty due to the Y's record, and lack of competition. They have all this legacy and tradition, even though that legacy and tradition has not been around since the late 80's, and 1 season in 96. I think that the Y should join the Big 12 if invited. Texas and them can become brothers. Texas thinks that they are better than everyone else, so does the Y, but Texas at least has the last decade of great football, as where BYU doesn't.

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 12:12 p.m.

    this is great! Duckhunter comes back from hiding, only to make an emotion-charged rant that gets laughed off because of its silliness. The best comeback that BYU fans can muster? "Why are you posting on BYU articles? You are obviously obsessed." and this is coming from the users who troll the Ute boards the most!

    dang.....glad Im a Ute fan!

  • manutd Milford, CT
    Sept. 26, 2011 11:51 a.m.

    i don't understand why people think we should wait it out for a better chance or opportunity. where exactly is that opportunity going to come from?

    there isn't one. what other conference could we possibly join that would be better and more fitting than the big 12? pac12 is never happening, same for sec, big 10, big east, acc. our only other options would be conferences that are essentially worthless like the wac, mwc, c-usa, etc.

    so its either stick with being independent or join the big 12, or fold athletics all together which would be tragic in my opinion. we should join up and make our ambitions known. if the big 12 crumbles as everyone seems to think so what. we're back to where we started being independent again. we have nothing to lose by jumping to the big 12

  • MurrayMike Murray, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 11:51 a.m.

    To: Johnjacob~whatever

    BYU has been good enough, although it was a non-bcs game in 1984. While BYU does have a National Championship; sadly TCU, utah and BSU do not.

    As to joining the Big 12 ~ I say if an invite comes, like a duck on a june bug, you jump at the chance. We have to remember 2 things about BYU football;

    1) The players; these guys want to play against the best, teams that will challenge them. Players don't want to go to Wyoming in November and play in front of 10,000 fans. Players want to go to Oklahoma or Texas and play in front of 90,000 fans.
    2) The fans; let us be clear, football at BYU is also played for the fans. We support the players, call in to sports talk radio shows, buy t-shirts, funny Y flags for our cars and pay our hard earned money for the "cougar club". The fans don't want to see us play Wofford St (like utah does). The fans also want to see us play Miami, Texas, Notre Dame and others.

    Embrace the big 12 and Rise Up to their level!

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 11:34 a.m.

    Duckhunter | 9:25 a.m. Sept. 26, 2011
    Highland, UT

    Still awaiting a response to this oldie but goodie:

    "May 26th: The backfield (at the U) consists of a jc transfer (LOL), a freshman, and a rugby player, none of which has ever had a single D1 carry. All of this with a mediocre qb who just had surgery and won't even practice until fall camp." Ducky, with all of your prior posts you have no creditability. Go back to your 2 week vow of silence.

    54-10 and your team quit.


  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 11:32 a.m.

    You may as well face it. If BYU wants in they are going to have to take a risk. If there isn't a risk, other teams with more market share to offer will jump in ahead of you. I think the biggest thing that needs to be evaluated is if the Church feels comfortable in a league where Texas holds all the cards and calls all the shots.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 26, 2011 11:15 a.m.

    @ UT4Big12,

    Seems you missed my point. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

    My point is that BYU's trump cards are:

    - Its being able to stay independent for awhile if not invited, or
    - If invited to be able to turn the invite down if necessary conditions aren't met because independence is there.

    I'm with you on BYU fitting the value the Big XII is looking for.

    As for the ESPN contract, I don't believe BYU would need to give it all up for membership in the Big XII. Seems JonnyDanger explained that in his 7:48am post.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Sept. 26, 2011 11:07 a.m.


    There you go again, spouting off your opinion, even when the data disagrees with you. You said:

    "The Pac-12 is a much weaker league than the Big12 in football."

    The Big-12 is "inarguably superior" to the Pac-12 in football.

    Uh, here's the problem with your statements - Sagarin says that the Pac-10 has been superior to the Big-12 in football four of the last five years, and six times out of the last ten years.

    I recommend you take a few moments and fact check before you make your next "inarguable" statement.

  • Chewbacca Magna, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 10:40 a.m.

    Quack, quack, quack, quack....

    54-10, Doh! 54-10, Doh! 54-10, Doh! 54-10, Doh!

  • SoCalUtahFan Uteville, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    ...It gives you all a fall sense of superiority...

    do you mean False instead of fall?

    54-10 (could be 68-10 had Kyle not pulled the starters too early in Q4)

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 10:18 a.m.


    "BYU should stay independent, free from the pressures of Sunday play, conference instability, disrupted rivalries, large areas and winning."

    They can also stay away from the pressures of good competition.

  • VegasBart N. Las Vegas, NV
    Sept. 26, 2011 10:14 a.m.

    Who knows what is best for BYU? Too many qustions out there. By the same token, if they don't reach out and try to associate with a larger, more prestigious conference, then I think they will have missed out on an opportunity for personal and institutional growth. Disregard what the die-hard Utah fans predict. They do see things with rose colored glasses, and those are reserved for UNLV. They will be just as successful as a Big 12 member as Utah will be in the PAC 12, maybe more so, and in a wider variety of sports. And let's face it, fans in red and blue, there's pretty much a national knowledge that the Big 12 is a much stronger conference in both football and basketball. I think the BIG 12 should offer TCU, BYU, and Louisville a spot at their table.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 10:08 a.m.

    why do utah die hards post utah garbage on a y article? u not getting enough attention? please work on filling you huge stadium before you expend your energies on Y articles. BTW, even the trib won't publish articles on u bball. it is going to be a long season....

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:58 a.m.

    BYU should stay independent, free from the pressures of Sunday play, conference instability, disrupted rivalries, large areas and winning.

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:48 a.m.

    Welcome back Duckhunter. Was worried about you. Good to see you back on here telling Utah "fans" how bad Utah is. It just isn't the same without you.

    One question: If the Big 12 is "inarguably superior" to the Pac12 - then how would a team that lost to a "bottom half" of the Pac12 team by 44 do in the Big12?

    Couldn't resist -- no response needed.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:45 a.m.

    @SoCalUte fan,

    What you said is EXACTLY what I have always thought about the Utes in the PAC. You guys are up in the night if you think you will waltz into a BCS game in the PAC 12. Let's hear what you have to say after an entire season of playing with the big boys. No more free lunch!!!

    That said, are you saying (for both the U and the Y) that you will never improve by recruiting and playing at a higher level??

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:42 a.m.

    @ duckhunter 9:25

    You know whats hilarious?

    -54-10 hahah

    -7 of the last 10

    -if not for 2 fluke turnovers by Ole Miss and UCF, BYU would be 0 and 4!

    You want hilarious? now that is hilarious

  • hohum Saint George, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:37 a.m.

    I have been reading the articles on the Y and U, not responding, but enjoying the banter back and forth. As I see it the single biggest blow to the U arogence would be for the Y to get invited to the Big 12. Gone would be the "we are bcs AQ and you aren't" response to anything the Y fans say about their team. It doesn't seem to be about winning a bcs conference or bowl game, just so long as you "belong'.

    The bcs is terminally ill and will suffer a demize in two years. There will not be any pac16 "super conference" or any other for the following reasons:

    First: Iit would bring the DOJ and monopoly charges. BCS doesn't need that.

    Secxond: Super conferences would make a playoff system easier to institute, they don't want it, loose too much money.

    Third: Behind closed doors the bcs people hav already discussed the possiblity of being sued by some NonAQ, the Y has to be one of the considerations.

    The y traveledf to Colo Springs, Fort Collins, Albaqurque Dallas, San Diego, what's the differnce? Bigger schools, programs. Easy to fill schedule as well.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:36 a.m.

    fan32: Why would you think I'm against BYU making its best efforts in athletics. Why do you suppose I feel BYU shouldn't join the Big 12 or any other high rated conference? I would prefer to do so. I'm just a bit worried about how many have drank the KoolAid as you put it in in a different form. As for me I think the words of Elder Oaks ring true (good/better/best) which to me was a talk on priorities.

    I am sorry that I don't reject the notion that football has to be THE priority for Bronco and his players. I am sorry that I don't see BYU football having a higher mission or calling then just winning football games. I am not sorry that BYU football tries to recruit athletes that will live among those principles. BYU's athletic program has been hugely successful and was the dominant program of the MWC as a sports program. To me that tells me that these athletes are working hard and that BYU has attracted high quality athletes to their programs. But I think most, if not all, BYU coaches, have their priorities in order.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:25 a.m.


    And utah is going to be competitive in the pac12? LOL! utah is obviously in the lower half of that league and it is a much weaker league than the Big12 in both football and basketball. utah is probably the worst means basketball program in that league.

    I understand that utah "fans" hang their hats on being in a bcs league while BYU is not in one. It gives you all a fall sense of superiority and allows you to tell yourselves that you are somehow important. I understand that the prospect of BYU going to a bcs conference, expecially one that is inarguably superior in the big 2 sports than the one utah joined, is killing you guys. So you post on every single article about it just to reassure yourselves. Pathetic but hilarious for us to read.


  • eagle Provo, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    To answer old cougar: Because I don't think prioritizing those things above football, and being competitive and having football among the priorities, but in the right place, is mutually exclusive. I think a football scholarship, like a music scholarship, is an investment in a young person that usually pays dividends.

    But perhaps that time will come as it did in Ricks College that the athletic program be cut for higher priorities. As a past educator/coach myself I was worried about what that might do to Rexburg and the community and college life, like many detractors, I fully realized that life went on and it did there and BYU-Idaho is a vibrant campus. However, I am for college athletics. But I think all really good coaches, who are there to truly help build young men, will tell their STUDENT-athletes that things must come in a certain order. Does it mean that we don't study film? Does it mean we don't practice? Does it mean that we don't work hard as a total program (coaches, players, support personnel)? Does it mean that we don't play to win? Again, I think Bronco has things in the proper order.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:12 a.m.

    BYU should join the Big 12 and then refuse to play a championship on Sunday, what better way to show that God comes before football. (talk about exposure)And why should they worry about Texas thinking they are better than everyone else in the Big 12...BYU has claimed to be better than everyone else for years! They should fit right in with their Texas size ego.

  • UT4Big12 HOUSTON, TX
    Sept. 26, 2011 9:00 a.m.


    Your idea of the Big 12 asking BYU to give up its network or to give up its deal with ESPN is rubbish! The conference allows all members to keep their 3rd tier rights. This is how the Longhorn Network came to be. Oklahoma is trying to get its own network. However, all schools now have to surrender their 1st and 2nd tier rights to the conference to ensure stability.

    You are sadly mistaken to believe that BYU is holding the trump cards. BYU is small religious school that is furthest away from the Big 12 footprint of all the potential candidates.

    Yet, BYU's market value (number of television viewers), its excellent athletic programs, its dedication to maintaining high standards and its present academic standing are the things that will stand out when compared to the other candidates. The Big 12 is looking for a school that will add to the value of the conference and BYU sure fits the bill.

  • SoCalUtahFan Uteville, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:50 a.m.

    It's simple to understand....

    BYU can't compete in Big-12 with annual games with: Texas, OK, OSU, Tx Tech, Iowa St, Kansas, etc

    To join Big-12, BYU will accept a finish in lower middle of the conference.

  • fan32 St. George, Utah
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:33 a.m.

    Eagle, you and a handful of the kool ade drinkers will be the only ones left in the stadium. Tom Holmoe will be run out of town if he botches this one. Start selling BYU to the big twelve and let's do it quickly. The football team will improve dramatically with the change. LES will stay full, the Marriot Center will be full and we can start preaching the message to those midwesterners who drove us off many years ago. It is perfect and inspired.

  • UT4Big12 HOUSTON, TX
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:33 a.m.


    Your idea of the Big 12 asking BYU to give up its network or to give up its deal with ESPN is rubbish! The conference allows all members to keep their 3rd tier rights. This is how the Longhorn Network came to be. Oklahoma is trying to get its own network. However, all schools now have to surrender their 1st and 2nd tier rights to the conference to ensure stability.

    You are sadly mistaken to believe that BYU is holding the trump cards. BYU is small religious school that is furthest away from the Big 12 footprint of all the potential candidates.

    Yet, BYU's market value (number of television viewers), its excellent athletic programs, its dedication to maintaining high standards and its present academic standing are the things that will stand out when compared to the other candidates. The Big 12 is looking for a school that will add to the value of the conference and BYU sure fits the bill.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:30 a.m.

    The real difficulty with joining the Big 12 is BYU is not competitive in the two major sports basketball and football in that conference. It is not like Utah joining a mediocre 1 good team, with the rest being very average. BYU this year is either the worst or second to the worst team in football in the Big 12. It may be able to compete with Iowa, Kansas, and Texas Tech. In basketball, they would have a difficult time beating Texas, Baylor, Kansas, Missouri, or Oklahoma, but would be more competitive than the football team. Football has in general been a slightly above average mid-major team for the last 12 years, and the last two slightly less than average. Moving to a league that has 4 to 5 teams every year being above average major teams is a big, big step up and not one the Y can easily make.

  • SUNNY ALL DAY Saint George, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:24 a.m.

    "Shadows" and "Types".

    BYU is beginning to look like USU; trying to get "invited" into the MWC.

    How did that work out for USU?

    BYU worked USU like cheap labor.

    And somehow, BYU thinks it won't be treated the same way by Texas?

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:20 a.m.

    The key question is what our goal was in going independent - to make a statement that we are available for a BCS conference in the future OR to stay independent indefinitely.

    If it is the first one, then we need to think about whether the Big12 is the best option to get us there and if it is, how to get in. If it is the second one, then you sportswriters can stop writing articles.

    I haven't heard Holmoe say they want to stay independent indefinitely so assume they are watching how things play out. It would be best if BYU stated their goals to set expectations for the Big12, WCC and fans.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:15 a.m.

    I would like to see the BIG12 remain at 9 teams for the next two seasons, then have BYU invited for the 2013 season along with Louisville and either TCU or VT. I want BYU to play the teams they have scheduled for the next two seasons. If there is more conference alignment than what has already been announced, I think the dominos will start falling and BYU should try and join a stable BIG 12.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:11 a.m.

    My experience too Mike Sorenson; some loud BYU loyals laughed at the prospect that the PAC 12 would add teams, (meaning the current PAC 12 is better than the best of the Big 12). Then when the Big 12 was possible for BYU they cheered, (meaning the current Big 12 is better than Independence.)
    PAC 12
    PAC 16
    Big 12

  • JonnyDanger HOUSTON, TX
    Sept. 26, 2011 8:02 a.m.

    As far as the monetary rewards of BCS/bowls: In a conference, anytime any school goes to a bowl game, the $$ from that bowl goes to the conference, who redistributes it. Usually they give more to the teams going to the more lucrative bowls, but conference affiliation tends to even things out a bit. This is great for teams not going to bowls, because they still get a piece of the pie (while not going to a single bowl game for the entire decade, Baylor made more in BCS bowl money than Utah or Boise did from 2000-2009). Conversely, some teams that went to BCS bowls last year ended up losing money on the trip (although they probably gained more in exposure, etc, so it isn't a loss for the university by any means). As an independent, BYU gets to keep all the money they generate in any bowl matchup. If they can actually make it to a BCS game, they get to keep ALL the cash. This year, they get to keep all the cash from the Armed Forces Bowl...however much that is.

  • JonnyDanger HOUSTON, TX
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:57 a.m.

    Second, BYU football pays for itself and all other sports. The money spent on scholarships for athletes, etc is not money that would otherwise be going to scholars, musicians, etc. BYU athletics gave almost $4 million back to the university last year (before the ESPN contract), so in essence those athletes are actually paying for the scholarships of some of the artists and scientists attending BYU, not the other way around. With more income now, we will probably see even more $$ going back into the University (in addition to more $$ into the athletic program overall).

  • JonnyDanger HOUSTON, TX
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:48 a.m.

    A few points:

    As was said, tier 1 rights go to EPSN/ABC, tier two to Fox and tier three can be held by the University. That means for any given game, ESPN can choose to broadcast it, if they choose not to, then Fox can broadcast it, and if they choose not to then the University can do with it as they choose. BYU could keep their contract with ESPN for those third tier rights and broadcast on BYUtv whenever they don't get picked up. There is not a school in the country besides Notre Dame that is getting more TV exposure this year than BYU. Texas and Oklahoma don't get picked up in that first/second tier every week. Having a guaranteed TV appearance every week would be a HUGE boon to any team in any conference (hence the LHN).

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:48 a.m.

    I know I am a Utah fan but I am going to give my honest opinion on BYU joining the Big 12....DON'T DO IT! It is a very unstable conference right now and who knows how much longer it will be a conference. There is no harm in being patient and waiting for a good stable conference to invite you(In my opinion will happen, considering BYU is consistently a good football team) Also, there is no harm in staying independent for a few years and seeing if you can turn yourself into a Notre Dame type program. Just because the fans want to be in a BCS conference right now does not make it the best option. Being Independent for the next four years would not be nearly as bad as joining the Big 12, having the big 12 collapse in 3 years and BYU being forced to join the WAC.

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:47 a.m.

    If bronco claims winning is not that important, watch what happens in the stands the next few months.

    The ticket holders don't feel the same way. Sounds like bronco is reminding Holmoe of what he told bronco when he was hired. "winning is not the most important thing at BYU." Holmoe was thinking, "win or be fired."

    Bronco is nervous.

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:40 a.m.

    Re: Jose Schmoe

    You may be right but half the cougar fans don't agree with you. Most cougar fans want great competition.

    The empty seats last week I'd only going to grow. Can't find a seat at RES. Thousands of free tickets were available last week on fb and ksl. So who has the fickle fans or are there simply a lot of fence sitters?

  • Eddie Would Go FPO, AE
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:38 a.m.

    Sorenson nailed it in the opening of the article:

    "It's funny how one's perspective can change overnight.

    Last week when it looked like the Pac-12 might expand by four teams and add Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech, some BYU fans snickered at the prospect of the rival Utes having to suddenly be in a division where they would make annual trips to Lubbock, Texas and Stillwater, Okla., instead of Los Angeles and the Bay Area.

    Hardly 24 hours later, Cougar fans were doing cartwheels over the prospect of making trips to Lubbock and Stillwater . . . not to mention, Ames, Iowa, Manhattan, Kan., and Waco, Texas."

    Ah, the mysterious minds of Cougar fans....

    Sept. 26, 2011 7:30 a.m.

    NO!!!! Stay away from the Big 12. Their biggest teams are trying to get away and will eventually get away to different conferences. BYU has the perfect set-up right now and it gives them the ability to be flexible. Independent and with your own TV contract is so much better than locked into a declining conference who will regulate more. Notre Dame is independent and it has worked wonderfully. I wonder if at some point the LDS church may convert to the BYU -Idaho system of intra-mural sports only....I don't agree with Bronco saying winning is low on the list but if that is what he is supposed to portray then maybe DIV I sports can go away at BYU and the money can be integrated into the Perpetual Education Fund and educating third world LDS members.

  • Joe Schmoe Orem, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:20 a.m.

    whine whine whine.

    Look at all of the ute fans trying to pose as Cougars.

    BYU is in a great place right now. The powers that be can see the college football is becoming a huge mess and it is probably best to not get stuck in a conference right now.

    There are going to be plenty of lawsuits going on the next few years and being independent in football will much better than being stuck in a conference.

    For those that can't see clearly past the BCS, it is going away so there will no longer be a "big dance" BCS system.

    The BCS leaders can see the writing on the wall and are trying to shake things up once again.

    That being said, BYU still has to win.

    I trust in BYU's leaders to make the decision that will be right for the university.

    The fence sitters will have to decide if they are real fans or not.

    Go Cougars!

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 7:01 a.m.

    Joining the conference is not getting "in the middle of what seems to be a jealous feud between Oklahoma and Texas". Independence is the route to suicide, even for the "mission" of the program. Weak scheduling and a mediocre record will actually harm whatever they see as their "mission." Football should not bee seen as a primary tool for telling the world about the church. If "eagle" feels so strongly about what s/he said, then BYU should shut down its football program or de-emphasize it. The obsession with PR is twisted.

  • oldcougar Orem, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 6:41 a.m.

    @ Eagle: So, since football is such a low priority, why do we pay Bronco so much for something so low on the list? Why do we offer young men expensive scholarships to play low priority football rather than offering those 100 or so scholarships to promising young scholars, artists, musicians, etc.? I think I agree with you, but if we're correct, perhaps BYU should dial down its $ commitment to athletics and redirect our resources to higher priorities.

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 26, 2011 6:39 a.m.

    And the infighting starts.

    "independence is the best thing ever."

    "We only want exposure."

    "Money is not a factor."

    "WCC is a great conference."

    "We think the large super conferences are bad."

    Isn't that interesting?

  • mgr63 DALLAS, TX
    Sept. 26, 2011 5:47 a.m.

    BYU will not get an invite. They have too many issues to be considered, and the football program is on a downward slide. I really think that BYU fans should get ready to accept the status of other like-minded schools such as Liberty U and Oral Roberts. No BCS conference really wants to deal with BYU on a permanent basis.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Sept. 26, 2011 1:38 a.m.

    BYU needs to be agressive about getting the invite.... If they don't organize themselves and show the Big 12 that we very much want to be apart of their conference we will probably be making the worst athletic and financial decision that has ever been made in school history.... Samuelson and Holmoe will forever be Goats that the Alumni will point to as irresponsible and unqualified for making the right decisions for the University....

    If they have not already done so, a Committee needs to be appointed for the sole pupose of putting together a presentation and a show and Tell for the Big 12..... We need to break down the Athletic Financials and have them available for the Big 12 to look at.... And we need to offer suggestions on how the Conference can work with our "No Sundays" Requirement.... Folks like Lavell Edwards, Danny Ainge, Gifford Nielson and those with ties to the Big 12 need to be part of this effort.

    I can't even imagine why we wouldn't be tripping over ourselves for the opportunity. I thought that our goal was Exposure, Financial Success, and Achiving Excellence... Becoming a member of the B12 satisfies those Goals.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Sept. 26, 2011 12:33 a.m.

    "sisucas | 10:53 p.m. Sept. 25, 2011
    San Bernardino, CA
    What's the point of a BCS bowl? Teams want to go there so they can make money. BYU probably makes a lot more TV money as an independent than they would make by getting to a BCS game or winning a conference."

    Lat I checked, BYU was not making 14 million a year off a tv contract as an independent, not even close.

    Getting to BCS bowl game isn't just about money, it is about being good enough to be included and BYU has not been while Utah, BSU and TCU have been.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Sept. 25, 2011 11:35 p.m.

    I hate to say this but Bronco is right. I know this might upset ultra-competitive BYU fans but there are more important things than football. Bronco's priorities are in order. God, family, friends and education MUST always trump football. In fact, most coaches believe this, even the guy that coaches the institution 40 miles north of Provo. It is time to put to bed the delusions of what most good coaches are about. It doesn't mean that the players that put these priorities can't play hard, play with focus, play determined and be competitive in whatever way we want to define this. But football is football, ultimately it's just a game that should be prioritized properly.

  • nunya sacramento, ca
    Sept. 25, 2011 11:25 p.m.

    I don't care about all that....just give me a new qb who's name isn't heaps and I'll be very, very happy. I'd like to see the other qb's now....can't be any worse then heaps...never know, we may actually get someone who isn't afraid to play the game, who doesn't think he's going to the NFL next year, who does't say WE all the time, who doesn't stare down the receiver he's going to throw the ball too (and that's before it's hiked), and one who doesn't get interviewed all the time. Seriously Dnews...start interviewing guys that made a good impact on the game, please. I really hope he gets booood off the field next Friday.

  • The Deuce Livermore, CA
    Sept. 25, 2011 10:54 p.m.

    Based on decisions made over the last year, I rather doubt that BYU will make the right decision. Splitting up their various teams into different conferences, a football coach telling everyone that he is more concerned about the "bigger mission" rather than winning football games, does not project confidence in Cougar fans. It does appear that the glory days for BYU athletics is in the rear view mirror. It is sad to see this downhill spiral as BYU has given all of their fans alot of great moments. While the jury is still out on all of this, I am not confident that this athletic department has a clear view of where they want to be in 5-10 years. I would be concerned if I were a conference offical of even extending an invitation to BYU given the recent events.

  • sisucas San Bernardino, CA
    Sept. 25, 2011 10:53 p.m.

    What's the point of a BCS bowl? Teams want to go there so they can make money. BYU probably makes a lot more TV money as an independent than they would make by getting to a BCS game or winning a conference.

    Sept. 25, 2011 10:34 p.m.

    BYU is dragging it's feet too much to get an invite now. Look for TCU to get the 1st invite now. Or Houston. Or Louisville. The Cougars better get used to independent life peppered with WAC and C-USA opponents. Meanwhile, Utah gets to enjoy the sweet life of the Pac-12.

  • sonny o'hara BOERNE, TX
    Sept. 25, 2011 10:33 p.m.

    1st and 2nd Tier TV rights (equal shares) would be locked up with the rest of the conference for 6 years. 3rd Tier rights belong to the individual schools see:LHN. No Sunday, no problem. I think the 1 bowl game that is set for a Sunday and is not affiliated with the big 12. Once things settle down, it should be a good conference for many years to come.

    Sept. 25, 2011 10:30 p.m.

    Please, Please, Please don't leave out of this one. Send the troops to Texas and Oklahoma and do what must to get us into the big dance.

    Independence is nice for a little time but the games right now and in the future are lame. Remember you had to buy two games you didn't want to get the Utah game.

    For thirty years or more we have waited to be part of the big league. Go. Go now. Do it. Lengthen your stride.

    The players deserve this, Provo deserves this and the BYU fan deserves this -

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2011 10:25 p.m.

    Could someone explain the idea that "BYU would get to keep its ESPN contract"?

    The Big 12 tier one broadcast rights are owned by Fox, a competitor of ESPN. You don't really think that BYU would enter a league and not be bound by league contracts, do you?

  • Pragmatic Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2011 10:15 p.m.

    It's time that BYU drops the collegiate sports program completely. It's going to be too difficult for them to deliver a quality product year in and year out...given the complex mission and objectives of BYU; other than just WINNING.

  • mtseatss Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 25, 2011 10:08 p.m.

    As recent events have shown, college football grows increasingly more divisive. It is rooted in profit motivated self interest creating envy from programs which reside outside the so called "BCS" system. Joining an increasingly elite centered system is potentially dangerous to the larger mission of the church. Whatever is decided the church must remain true to its core principles.

  • DD JayMario American Fork, UT
    Sept. 25, 2011 9:42 p.m.

    BYU won't keep selling out games if their competition week after week is Idaho and NM State. Mark it down!

  • canco Sandy, Utah
    Sept. 25, 2011 9:39 p.m.

    If BYU receives an invite to join the Big 12, and they decline in favor of remaining independent in football. It will be the beginning of the end of the BYU football program. Let's hope that the powers that be at BYU can see the value of being affiliated with a BCS league.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 25, 2011 9:36 p.m.

    It's doubtful BYU will lose much that it already has by joining the Big XII. If they want BYU bad enough, they'll allow it to continue its BYUtv setup, a lot of its ESPN contract, and the no-Sunday play thing. Exposure won't be minimized.

    BYU's not dumb enough to get into bed with Oklahoma and Texas AND give all that up, too, just to be in a BCS conference. There's plenty of time before 16-team superconferences occur because of what the Pac-12 recently did.

    Like someone said Samuelson told him after the BYU game, BYU's "in a good place right now." Take that for whatever it means, but I think it means that either way BYU will make the correct decision for itself, because it can. It's holding the trump cards.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2011 9:27 p.m.

    While some might perceive this as BYU getting into an unstable relationship, BYU athletics in and of itself is unstable as an independent. Right now it is a standoff since the BYU administration if its afraid of anything is taking an application forward to LDS Church leaders and having it rejected. Similarly the Big 12 presidents/chancellors don't want to invite BYU and have this PR disaster to happen. BYU would be easier to get than TCU since TCU has a singed contract to join the Big East next year.

  • Hawkyo SYRACUSE, UT
    Sept. 25, 2011 9:25 p.m.

    I still think the super conferences will not last long even if they do happen.