Dick Harmon: Super conferences a bad idea for college sports

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  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 21, 2011 2:51 p.m.


    Still carefully picking your stats and years to show BYU is better in football, eh? Let's stick to the last 10 years:

    Top 5 finishes
    Utah = 2
    BYU = 0

    BCS bowl wins
    Utah = 2
    BYU N/A

    Head to head
    Utah = 7 (avg margin of victory 16.7 points)
    BYU = 3 (avg margin of victory 4 points)

    If anyone is "delusional about recent accomplishments", it's not Utah fans.

  • Classless Ute Fan Magna, UT
    Sept. 21, 2011 5:38 a.m.


    All of that and STILL Roscoe has a loosing record to Kyle. Kyle has more head to head wins, more wins as a head coach, and a better record this year. Care to "prove" how byu is better than Utah this year, or since both head coaches have started with those FACTS? (Kyle hasn't lost a game to BYU by more than 7, Roscoe has lost twice in blowouts). If Utah is such a inferior opponent, how is it that they still outperform the kitties from down south?

    Final "rankings" is just a popularity vote or beauty pageant by the media. Sure it is nice to get them, but if you are #26 in the voting, it doesn't really make you a worse team than #24. It is just a perceived ranking. Or is it an empirical formula that determines exact scientific proof that said team is better?

  • Vince the boonies, mexico
    Sept. 21, 2011 5:10 a.m.

    Money, money, money. Greed, greed, greed. Go ahead all of you "tech" freaks and figure out how to create capital kingdoms. Where will you be then? Just remember the bottom line-In a 16 team conference 12 teams are going to be "losers". Is that what the common fan wants? How many local fans are going to average traveling 400 to 800 miles each week to support their schools athletic team? What does that do to a normal family budget? Who's kidding who here?

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    Sept. 21, 2011 2:20 a.m.

    Hilarious reading the naive Y fans predicting that Utah may one day get booted from the Pac 12.

    This has never happened once (and cannot happen) in the history of collegiate athletics.

    But apparently, Utah's rejection is imminent.

    Come on Y fans... your delusion is getting loonier than normal.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    Sept. 21, 2011 2:18 a.m.

    Riddles in the Dark | 6:46 a.m. Sept. 20, 2011
    Olympus Cove, Utah
    Classless Ute Fan

    AP Top 25 Lifetime
    BYU 17
    Utah 5


    Ha ha ha!

    These made up statistics are so ridiculous that you won't get a single person to bite on this.


  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    Sept. 21, 2011 2:13 a.m.

    three11stu | 10:04 p.m. Sept. 19, 2011
    Saratoga Springs, UT
    Not being bitter, as I am a fan of both the U and the Y, but where was this outrage when Utah left the Mountain West for the Pac 12? I believe that was the start of all the shakeup, not what is taking place now.


    Utah did not fire the first shot. In fact, Utah didn't pull the trigger at all. The Pac-10 did, and Utah did the only thing it could... accept the invite.

    I also think super conferences are bad, and I am glad the Pac-12 is staying put at 12. But the fact is, people are only outraged when something doesn't benefit them.

    Why should there have been outrage when Utah left? Who is the state of Utah more loyal to? The University of Utah... or the Mountain West conference? People would've been foolish to stick up for the MWC after what they've done to this state's teams over the last 5 years.

    And it's the same for BYU. There should be absolutely ZERO outrage if BYU were to jump ship for a BCS league.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    Sept. 21, 2011 12:24 a.m.

    Utah fans are soooo delusional about recent accomplishments.

    Top 25 Finishes Last 5 Years

    2006 #16/#15
    2007 #14/#15
    2008 #25/#21
    2009 #12/#12
    2010 unranked

    2006 unranked
    2007 unranked
    2008 #2/#4
    2009 #18/#18
    2010 ur/#23

    BYU has almost as many Top 25 finishes (both polls) in the last 5 years (4), as Utah has in its entire history (5).

    AP Top 25 Last 5 Years
    BYU 4
    Utah 2

    Top 15 (in at least one poll) Last 5 Years
    BYU 3
    Utah 1

    Utah is the epitome of a flash in the pan - the Utes have never even managed to string back-to-back Top 15 finishes together.

    BYU has managed that little feat many, many times, including as recently as 2006-2007.

    Utah fans like to cherry-pick Utah wins and BYU losses, but, the final rankings are the final word on each season, and in that respect, Utah has proven that they're all talk, but no walk.

  • CougarForever Holladay, Utah
    Sept. 21, 2011 12:05 a.m.

    If the super-conferences become reality it will do irreparable harm to college sports overall but I think that this is inevitable. If created as most envision, the resulting four 16-team mega-conferences will have essentially OPEC-like cartel leverage in negotiating with the networks and will see revenues surge. From that standpoint Utah is in a good spot whether the PAC stays at 12 or goes to 14 or 16 (although they will be also-rans within their conference). The mystery is what happens with the Big-12 and Big East. There is now a huge push from major powerbrokers to keep the Big-12 largely intact. If this happens then the Big East will be in trouble because it won't have Big-12 "leftovers" (Kansas, KSU, ISU, Baylor, possibly Missouri) to merge with. BYU, on the other hand, would likely get a Big-12 invite. Most current MWC, C-USA and WAC schools will likely maintain their affiliations. Reportedly the Big-12 has no interest in Boise State but likes BYU and AFA. If the Big-12 dissolves then unfortunately BYU will be hard pressed to consistently schedule quality competition throughout the season.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:02 p.m.

    @ eastcoastcoug | 4:51 a.m. Sept. 20, 2011

    Classless Ute fans?

    After all the gum flapping about Independence, ESPN $$$, exposure, & the we are going to crack the BCS this time(really we mean it) gum flapping, lets call it payback or put another way..

    Pride goeth...

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:56 p.m.

    @ Cougars - Wise Older Brothers | 11:00 p.m. Sept. 19, 2011

    Lucky win? Running scared?

    If only Will Ferrell was that funny.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 7:41 p.m.

    @ scenic view

    Only a clueless BYU fan whose team has not been relevant since 1984 wouldn't understand that 2 BCS bowl wins and 2 undefeated seasons in 7 years including a #2 and #4 ranking in a non AQ conference is a great accomplishment. BYU's biggest bowl win EVER was a 24-17 victory over a 6-5 Michigan team. So I can truly understand why BYU does not understand the significance of our Fiesta and Sugar Bowl victories.

    As far as BYU:

    - Blow out loss to Utah at home (their only meaningful game in 2011) 54-10! On national TV nonetheless.

    -Blow out losses to Florida St, Air Force, Utah State,TCU and Nevada by a combined score of 157-56. Thats an average of over 20 points per loss.

    - 3-7 against Utah the last 10 years

    -Will never be in a BCS conference

    So what have you done lately?

    BYU fans criticize Utah's recent accomplishments, only because BYU has no accomplishments since...well you know.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 7:33 p.m.

    This article would never had been written if it appeared that BYU had a seat at the super conference table.

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 6:54 p.m.

    scenic view

    here is a tissue.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Sept. 20, 2011 6:36 p.m.

    Papa Smurf UTE

    "Still talking about all the individual awards, with the one team award the NC in 1984. We live in a what have you done for me lately world, and as of late, you have done nothing."

    Only a clueless Utah fan whose team has never won a single national individual award wouldn't understand that such awards are just as much team awards as individual awards.

    As far as Utah:

    - blowout loss AT HOME in the biggest game in Utah history - 7-47
    - blowout loss road loss on national television - 3-28
    - blowout loss in bowl game - 3-26
    - winless in the PAC 12
    - winless against BCS teams

    So what have you done lately?

    Utah fans criticize BYU "ancient" history, only because Utah has no history.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Sept. 20, 2011 6:24 p.m.


    "Well after the 54-10 rout on ESPN I doubt BYU will have to worry about ANY conference invites for a long time to come..."

    Either you're just spouting off because you couldn't come up with anything more creative, or you're completely clueless about conference realignment.

    A team could lose a game 1,000 - 0 this year, finish the season 0-12, and it wouldn't affect a potential invite one iota.

  • idaho cougar fan Twin Falls, ID
    Sept. 20, 2011 5:57 p.m.

    I read a Yahoo article in which all 5 writers put BYU into a super conference if it happens. They said it is all about the $$$ and BYU with its fan base and stadium size makes money. Include the success over the last 30 years, they said BYU would be included.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 4:30 p.m.

    John S. Harvey | 4:19 p.m. Sept. 20, 2011
    Sandy, UT


  • John S. Harvey Sandy, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 4:19 p.m.

    Eight 15 team super conferences would include exactly the 120 FCS (D1 in past terminology) exactly. It also sets up a natural playoff system which includes every conference - 4 first round games, 2 second round games, and 1 final. What's not to like?

  • Still Blue after all these years Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    I think everyone agrees that if the Big XII were to stay together, that would potentialy be good for BYU. If it does not and four 16 team superconferences are formed, we struggle to see BYU in one of them. But how do the four superconferences get formed? first the Pac 12 has to invite UT, OU and their poor sisters. If they do not, this whole superconference thing gets shot to heck right now. It takes 9 presidents of Pac 12 schools to approve. What is U said "no". That might help protect BYU. But why do that? we hate BYU. I say, remember in the 70's, 80's and first half of 90's when BYU carried the U. The U could not fill a small stadium, BYU went to bowls and the U got money from it all. Just like OU is protecting OSU and UT is protecting TTU, perhaps the U should consider its brother (not little or big). I think there are already 2-3 Pac 12 presidents thinking this expansion may not be so great.

  • Skippy West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 3:12 p.m.

    WOW! This rivalry just gets better and better. So much for thinking that utes and cougars don't care about each other anymore. This love hate relationship is pretty entertaining. The funny thing about all this...Dick. He loves to write things that stir everybody up. Does anyone even remember what the article is about? Does anyone care?

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 2:34 p.m.

    @ whatsinitforme
    What Utah fans are you talking about? Every Ute fan I've talked to is very excited for Texas and OU to come to the PAC. Why wouldn't we want that?

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 2:02 p.m.


    The fact that Texas and Oklahoma may join the Pac 16 doesnt really hurt at all. We will get more recruits out of the Texas hotbed where those players may have gone to Texas A&M, or other schools that play Texas on a regular basis. We have competed with the premeir teams in college football for the last 15 years with MWC recruits. Just think if we were part of the Pac 16 and got even better recruits. I am not saying that the UTES would win their division each year, and it may only happen once a decade. I however like the chances of getting better recruits, and playing better competition on a regular basis than being independent and playing WAC and Con USA teams. While the UTES may not play in SO Cal every year in the PAc 16, they will still get some great Cali recruits to compete with the Texas and Ok teams. Kids will want to play for Super Conference leagues. That will only help with recruiting.

  • Outsider Looking In BOISE, ID
    Sept. 20, 2011 1:49 p.m.

    Growing up I would root against Utah, because they were our rivals. After I left home and lived in the midwest and the east coast, I started to identify with Utah through the Majerus years in basketball, and most recently since the arrival of Urban Meyer in football. Being a native Utahn felt great when the U was winning and I cheered for them. However, I remained a cougar fan, because they are still my childhood team. I root for them when they're down and I anguish when they get waxed. I still wish Utah the best of success in the PAC and I am glad they made it out of the MWC. However, there is nothing wrong with me feeling bad because BYU is going to get left out of any future realignment. I'm not sure why Ute fans can't take a little pity on BYU, because they were in the same spot just a few years ago. Do BYU fans feel jilted that they got left out last summer? Absolutely. Is it going to mean a further diminishment of their program if they get left out this time? Probably. But isn't this bad for the U as well?

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 20, 2011 1:37 p.m.

    For Utes not wanting to see the Pac-12 expand, remember, that's the conference that started it all, and that failed start got YOU into the Pac family.

    So, not wanting to see the OKs and TXs come your way is just plain tough. It's likely to happen, because when the SEC and ACC each get to 16, the Big Ten will also, which means the Pac-12 will, too (and probably before the Big Ten doos). The Pac won't be left behind on this one.

    Remember, the Pac started this whole thing.

    So, get used to the idea of playing in Oklahoma, Texas, Colorado, and Arizona a lot, and just once in awhile in California, Oregon, and Washington.

    Recruiting from Texas vs California is probably a trade-off. Either way, you'll have fertile recuriting grounds as a Pac-12 member.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 20, 2011 1:34 p.m.

    Let's everyone get this straight: the NCAA is powerless with respect to college football playoffs because the NCAA doesn't OWN the bowls. They're individually owned and run.

    That won't ever change, so forget about the NCAA doing anything about a college football playoff. DUH!

    Now, as for the BCS, it'll crumble if it continues to find ways to exclude the so-called mid-majors. However, as long as it gives guaranteed entry to BCS bowl games, such as if you're high enough ranked you're in, then litigation doesn't have a chance against the BCS.

    Granting BCS status to conferences is legit when its guidelines are adhered to. The MWC, if it hadn't lost its top dogs, would have gotten BCS status and the Big East would have lost its. Past history, now.

    HOWEVER, if four 16-team superconferences come about, that'll minimize the mid-major conferences as they'll have very few cross-over contests with BCS schools. Then, that could be a litigation issue.

    Who knows whether the BCS will institute a playoff of more than 4 teams.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 1:15 p.m.


    Still talking about all the individual awards, with the one team award the NC in 1984. You just got beat, on your home feild no less by 44 points. We live in a what have you done for me lately world, and as of late, you have done nothing. That is great that you beat up on the MWC teams, and were ranked in the top 25 and had four 10 win seasons in a row. The MWC now has much worse teams than the old WAC did. More people know that Utah has 2 BCS wins, than they know that the Y was in the top 25 a few times, and had some 10 win seasons. That is why people know who Boise St is as well. Had Boise done what you did, with no BCS wins, no one would care about Boise St, or even really know who they are. They would not even be on the college football radar had they not played in, and won some BCS games. Super Conferences are coming, and if the Big 12, and Big East fall apart, the Y might not be part of the new Super Conferences.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 1:13 p.m.

    Dick, the me, me, me attitude is nothing new. It's been seen in the grumblings of smaller schools for the past 35 years trying to break into the old boys' club. Let's face it, schools like USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Michigan and many others are the big boys because they were successful from the beginning. I'm a BYU fan but BYU was a cog in this wheel when they hit #5 in the rankings in 1996 and got stuck with the Cotton Bowl...they were screaming and even started the early anti-BCS grumblings. So this is not new and will not go away.

    mega-conferences will be formed and will probably die, but in the meantime we'll get some sort of revised BCS playoff system out of it, fewer conferences will facilitate that. Then the conferences will die off and we'll be left with a similarly messy situation.

    I'm just glad that BYU is in control of their future, which is also why Notre Dame is happy as a football independent.

  • Red Leader Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 1:09 p.m.

    "Ute fans - showing once again your lack of class, continuing to pile it on BYU even after the lopsided win. One more reason many of us could never live in your weird little state - all these Mormons hating their own church school and anything to do with it. "

    I find it ironic that your sentence ends with a statement condemning the Mormons that hate (not me, I just dislike a lot about it... not everything) their own church school, yet you start the same sentence talking about how, many of you - dividing the church into groups - could never live in our "weird little state." It's that attitude about us and them (Utah Mormons and non-Utah Mormons) that needs to be swept from the church, and it's that same attitude that makes many of us Ute fans hate our own church school and anything to do with it.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 1:02 p.m.

    Well after the 54-10 rout on ESPN I doubt BYU will have to worry about ANY conference invites for a long time to come...

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 12:51 p.m.

    I don't want to see super conferences. They would concentrate too much power and money in too few hands. This is the latest effort by the BCS to shut out the schools they don't want to let in.

    If the super conferences happen, they will likely have a playoff between the champions of those 4, 5 or 6 conferences and claim they have satisfied the wishes of the fans when in reality they haven't, because no more teams will have true access to the title than before.

    The super conferences will also destroy traditional rivalries. As teams are separated from their rivals and 9 game conference schedules don't leave enough non-conference spots for rivalry games to happen.

    I hope the college Presidents have the guts to put a stop to all this and settle things down. Lets have a true national championship tournament that involves the champions of every conference no matter the prestige or lack thereof.

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 12:50 p.m.


    im guessing that your post was an attempt at stand up comedy?

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Sept. 20, 2011 12:23 p.m.


    Respect your opinion, but think about this. Utah will continue to get the California recruits they've always had since none of the potential teams joining the PAC conference recruit out of Cali.

    In addition Utah would have more "exposure" in the states of Texas and Oklahoma which could be a windfall for the U program. If I'm a 4 star recruit out of Texas, but UT is loaded at my position, I would go to Utah if I knew I could start there for 3 years rather than battle it out with other 4 & 5 star recruits at UT.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 12:00 p.m.

    Harmon is just worried that his beloved Cougs will be left out in the cold if the Big 12 and the Big Least fall by the wayside. If those conferences fall apart, and there is the Pac, ACC, SEC, and BIG Whatever all with 16 teams, chances are BYU may not be invited to one of these super conferences. They might have to make what Harmon called a Mongrel conference with Boise, TCU if the Big East falls apart and they are not invited. Who knows.

  • Pugman TREMONTON, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 11:54 a.m.

    This forum is great entertainment. The powerful Ute fans, fresh off a gift wrapped victory over BYU. Anyone can defeat a team that has 7 turnovers. Oh, and Ute fans, as of today, you still haven't beaten a PAC 12 team. The BYU fans voiceing displeasure over a team that seems to be confused, playing with no confidence or emotion. Bottom line folks...I've lived long enough to understand this one truth.....Where there's money, there's coruption and you can bet that everyone is on the take. College football.....really the only pure form of football being played nowdays will go by the wayside. It will be replaced with money, greed, etc. And for the really true powers of college football.....FSU, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, UCLA, Michigan, Ohio State,Alabama, LSU, it will be a dog fight for supremecy each year. And for the other schools in these conferences.......keep dreaming.

  • NateB Lehi, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 11:49 a.m.

    Excited to see the super conferences form. I think it is the first step of doing away with the BCS stuff and ultimately the NCAA altogether. Then conference affiliation won't have any importance at all.

    College Football fans have been getting hosed by the NCAA for years and years. I don't mean to sound bitter, but they have been a nightmare of a "governing body". I don't agree with the way they have handled most of what they do, from suspensions to determining who gets to be National Champ (before BCS) to the BCS. Hopefully in 5 years or so the Universities will fire the NCAA and take their product elsewhere.

  • Hunt Spanish Fork, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 11:45 a.m.

    The PAC-12 going to 16 will only server to dilute Utah's recruiting base as you will have 4 new teams (two that are power houses)from outside the region now competing for their critical West Coast recruits. This is a lose lose scenario for Utah and could set them back to the point of not being able to even compete at the level they did in the MWC.

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    Sept. 20, 2011 11:25 a.m.

    Truth Machine: I did not state anything about Utah...rather I was focusing on the exposure that a superconference will garner. Although BYU has a hefty contract at the moment with ESPN, when the superconferences form, I don't think it takes a genius to realize how TV contracts will change to favor those teams/conferences. Unfortunately, BYU will be on the outside looking in. I did hear though that the MWC may reconsider their application for membership. Again, if I was a current player or recruit, I would definately reconsider playing at BYU.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Sept. 20, 2011 11:01 a.m.

    Sports Fan,

    Beginning next year Utah will play it's games on Fox Sports and ESPN. 2011 is a transition year for the Utes. I think that's a pretty decent trade off considering that in a few years the annual TV contract will be in the low $30MM range.

    Why does all of this matter so much to you? Since your team didn't get the job done on the field Saturday, then all we have to talk about is the battle for exposure??? I think most people would agree that Utah's in a pretty good spot with their new TV deal.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    Sept. 20, 2011 10:56 a.m.

    Um, I think Dick Harmon really wanted to write:

    Super conferences a bad idea for BYU.


    Sit Down!

    When are you going to realize that Edwards recruits don't play for BYU.

    You're not winning awards with recruits that rush for 11 yards in games and throw 3 TD in three games.

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 10:51 a.m.



    great stuff! 54-10.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Sept. 20, 2011 10:46 a.m.

    Truth Machine,

    You're obsessed with using the past to prove BYU is superior to Utah. Once you move on and just accept the fact that Super conferences are coming and that BYU is on the outside looking in you will be able to let go of all the angst and hate. I personally hope BYU gets in a SC, however bashing Utah's football program won't change the current situation (super-conferences vs. independence).

    That's fine if you think Utah will finish at the bottom of the PAC12 every year, but realize your team just got drubbed by a PAC12 cellar dweller... makes your 9:34 post look silly.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 10:45 a.m.


    We can compare TV contracts:

    BYU has an exclusive 8-year contract with ESPN that guarantees that at least 4 BYU home games will be broadcast on ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU every year, and provides BYUtv rights to rebroadcast any BYU game shown on ESPN, home or away, and to broadcast any home game not shown on ESPN.

    This year that worked out to 10 games, minimum, on ESPN, and one home game on BYUtv.

    Call us the first time Utah has 10 games on ESPN in the same year.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 10:14 a.m.

    Brave Sir Robin

    Advice: Every team has its ups and downs, but BYU has had alot more ups in the last 30 years than that team up north.

    And even in Utah's best decade ever, BYU still had more Top 25 finishes (both polls) than Utah.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 10:07 a.m.


    The stats are correct, Utah finished unranked in the AP poll in 2010, which is the only poll Utah fans cite when talking about their 2004 and 2008 Top 25 ranking.

    Steve Sarkisian won the Sammy Baugh in 1996 and Luke Staley won the Doak Walker in 2001, just the latest of 15 national individual awards BYU has won:

    Heisman Trophy - 1
    Doak Walker - 1
    Davey O'Brien - 4
    Outland Trophy - 2
    Sammy Baugh - 7

    National Individual Awards
    BYU 15
    Utah 0

    One or two claims to greatness > zero claims to greatness

    BYU(14-1) also won the 1997 Cotton Bowl and finished #5 in both polls with back-to-back wins over Top 25 teams. If the BCS had been in existence at the time, with the exact same qualify standards as existed for a non-AQ team in 2004, that is, being the highest ranked non-AQ team in the Top 12, BYU would have been a lock to play in BCS games in 1996 and 2001.

    1997 was only 15 months before Utah's NCAA tourney championship run in 1998.

    Top 15 Finishes Last 5 Years
    BYU 3
    Utah 1

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 10:04 a.m.

    ArticunoBYU | 9:47 a.m. Sept. 20, 2011
    Highland, UT

    Looks like Duckhunter is back with a new name. Where's Stockton is still MIA.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:52 a.m.

    The biggest question is:

    Where is Duckhunter and Bluto??

    Bwahah ahaahahahaha aaaaahahahahah!

  • ArticunoBYU Highland, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:47 a.m.

    BYU football is the premier sports franchise in america. Spirit. Honor. Integrity. Tradition. These values will lead us into the next phase of football dominance. It will be awesome when the dust settles and all these so-called powers will be begging BYU to play them. It will be such an honor that BYU will be able to pull off 3-1 and even 4-1 deals. We will rarely have to leave LES.

  • Daventry1701 SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:46 a.m.

    Truth machine.

    Want to compare tv contracts bro? Or athletic budgets? Schedules? Bowls? Enjoy reality?

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    uteeee&theblowfish | 9:26 a.m. Sept. 20, 2011
    @ riddles
    "1st of all your stats are incorrect we finished 2008,2009,2010 seasons ranked. Right off the top of my head."

    Actually Riddles is correct. That is why he was so careful to say "AP" finishes. In 2010 Utah finished ranked in the final coaches poll, but was the first of "others recieving votes" in the AP poll. However, when pressed, many cougar fans will quote the Utes coaches poll finish in 2008 (4th) as opposed to their #2 finish in the AP, which garnered first place votes. It's a ploy to use statistics to prove a point, which point I'm guessing is that BYU is a better program than Utah. It's a common ploy is to use selective statistics on these boards, and neither side is immune. But his was a correct statistic.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    Truth Machine, what advice are you going to give to BYU recruits when losing by 44 points at home to a "bottom tier" PAC 12 school becomes the norm?

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:42 a.m.

    Brave Sir Robin

    "Did I miss anything?"

    Yes, you missed how hypocritical Utahs fan are, whining about how unfairly Utah was treated by not being given a fair chance to prove themselves in 2004 and 2008, and now mocking teams that are being locked out of the same unfair system.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:34 a.m.


    Utah fan math

    more exposure = 1 game on ESPN
    less exposure = 10 games on ESPN

    exposure is a double-edged sword, but even bad publicity is better than being completely ignored (how many games have you watched on the MTN this year?)

    what advice are you going to give to Utah recruits when bottom tier finishes in the PAC 12 become the norm?

  • uteeee&theblowfish SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:26 a.m.

    @ riddles
    1st of all your stats are incorrect we finished 2008,2009,2010 seasons ranked. Right off the top of my head. Secondly to argue since 1992 which is NOW 20 years the cougars one claim to greatness is 1 Doak Walker award winner. all that What Utes have done in sametime needs not be written.

    Secondly I can understand Byu's angst of things to come. But I think it worth noting, IF TV and Marketing execs project MORE people watching it after Conference realignment. It obviously means it will be more and more exciting. That yes rivalries will be broken but new ones will be forged. Change is hard but for a fan of Utah this will be a fun ride!

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:26 a.m.


  • reader1234 South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    I agree all this realignment has disillusioned me. I am becoming a bigger fan of the NFL. NCAA football has lost its nostalgia. I have stopped watching it.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    I can sum up this entire article in two sentences:

    "I think superconferences are a bad idea because BYU is going to be left out. If BYU were going to be included, I would write an article about what a great idea the superconference is."

    Did I miss anything?

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:15 a.m.


    "Yes Utah is going to be in one of the 4 "super conferences" and BYU is going to end up in a completely irrelevant league."

    Utah = dependent, a champion only by association
    BYU = independent, a real champion

    Utah will have just as much chance of winning a NC in the PAC as they had in the WAC...

    that is, ZERO.

    Utah's only relevance will be notches on the championship belts of USC, Oklahoma, and Texas.

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    Sept. 20, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    The fact of the matter is that BYU will be left out of the 4-5 superconferences but may continue their independent schedule. They will likely only play a few key teams early on and then WAC/MWC/CUSA teams to fill the remaining portion. If I was a current Y player or a recent Y recruit, I'd probably decommit and go to a school where you have a chance to receive more exposure (only if you are skilled enough otherwise you'll lose your scholarship).

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:58 a.m.

    Dick you must be upset because this article is really a rant. Love the idea of Super Conferences with the 64 teams willing and foolish enough to spend the money to become really pro-college teams and play for national championship. The problem the conference make up of these leagues are not very super. Tell me all the super teams in the new super ACC, and how is the big 10 super with teams like Minnesota, Michigan State, and Indiana, the vaunted SEC with this years Auburn, Mississippi, and Vanderbilt. Not too mention the weakest of all Conference of Champions with its Washington States, Washington, Oregon State, Colorado. A conference that a low mid major in terms of spending like Utah is going to be playing for the conference championship in its first season in the league. These are all hype. And, think of the great teams now on the outside like TCU and BSU. Nevertheless, it is a great time to watch the fun and see it all depends on who's ox is being gored in what is ethical or not ethical in college sports.

  • chicagoborn WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:57 a.m.

    Are you really telling me that if BYU won on Saturday by 44 points that they wouldn't be rubbing it in? Give me a break. BYU fans were rubbing it in when Utah lost to TCU even though BYU didn't play. Now that's pathetic.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:31 a.m.

    @ riddles in the dark

    Hey buddy, everything will be okay. Yes Utah is going to be in one of the 4 "super conferences" and BYU is going to end up in a completely irrelevant league. or just stay independent with absolutely nothing to play for, just like Utah State was 9 or 10 years ago. Do you realize BYU has done absolutely nothing relevant to college football since 1990! Since then Utah has finished in the AP top ten 3 times, two BCS wins, 2 UNDEFEATED seasons and the last 20 years Utah leads the rivalry 12 to 8. We have won 7 out of the last 10 and we also beat you 54 to 10 three days ago (seems as if you already forgotten). Utah's last 3 wins against BYU as a combined score of 119-50. Oh and by the way 1984 was the year the Cosby show premiered! Wow that is a long time ago! SMU fans don't even brag about the 80's as much as BYU fans. Shows how insecure your whole fan base is when all you have to say is "1984".

  • Casey See FLOWER MOUND, TX
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:29 a.m.

    The real issue is see with the super conferences is that it will eventually kill football. Regional rivalry will die. Teams will start to play only other teams in the Super conference instead of teams from other conferences. The super conferences will then clamour just the way the BCS conferences do that the teams from the non-Super Conference shouldn't be playing in a BCS game because they haven't proved themselves. The next BSU, BYU, Utah, TCU will be forever excluded from even having a chance to play for the national title. 10 years ago, no one would have expected Boise State to be considered a national title contender, but they are now.

    If SC are the way of the future, then I say make the teams play their way into the conference. Each year the two weakest teams in a conference should be required to dropout of the conference and be replaced by the two strongest teams from the non-super conferences close by. If there were 5 Super conferences, then 10 teams would drop out and 10 would be added each year.

    If this happened, we would see parity and real football again.

  • Still Blue after all these years Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:27 a.m.

    If all goes as many predict (OU, Okie State, TTU and UT to Pac 16; ACC goes to 16 with two more, SEC adds more, etc.), it will create a 64 team super league with all others playing essentially Division II football. There will be only one super league in the west and that leaves BYU in the Division II league. That will make things difficult - less money, inability to schedule big teams, loss of fans and probably recruits. They may decide to abandon football and be fine with the WCC which is a non-football conference. Ute fans will be delirious over this and say it proves their superiority. Go ahead, enjoy your day in the sun. and congratulations to a huge victory last Saturday. You had the audacity to show up ready to play and my Coug's did not. But down the road, I think everyone will miss something that's been great for a lot of decades. But $$$ will rule.

  • ArticunoBYU Highland, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:26 a.m.

    BYU is the most elite program in the country. We will rise to the top. We WILL be included in the superconferences. Dick Harmon and Bronco have said so. Greg Wrubell forever.

  • R.Burgandy Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:23 a.m.

    I predict the Super Conference will happen and within 7 years Schools will turn against it and will go back to 10 teams. The WAC in the 90's is a good example as Alumni, and presidents wanted out as fast as they could thus the MWC. As smart as some of these Presidents seem to be, it makes you wonder if they are thinking with their wallets or their brain. If am Utah, I would not be in favor of 16 teams because if the original PAC 10 becomes unhappy with a Super conference, bye bye Utah! 12 teams is perfect and they should keep it that way

  • Mick Murray, Utah
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:10 a.m.

    It is interesting what a year has done to the ego of a ute fan. Just a few years ago they were complaining about a system that kept them out of a national championship game. Now they are praising a system that would be more exclusive to those not apart of that system.
    Last year they get slaughtered at home by TCU on national tv. Now is seems as that loss never happened and all humility of such a kick out the window.

    I am shocked at some of the comments that delight in the possibility of BYU getting left out of a bigger conference or in success as an independant. Why all the hate? Is this still left over animosity from the dominance of BYU in the 80's and 90's?
    If so, I guess it is not just the BYU fans who cannot let go of 1984.

  • VegasBart N. Las Vegas, NV
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:08 a.m.

    Well, my Rebels or Lobos won't make it any way you stretch but I too think that this super conference idea is absolutely stupid. If you are only going to play the 3 teams in your pod every year, and then only 2 from the other pods, why have a conference? The logic here is lost and you've destroyed everything in the process. Sure doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy. I still like the regional approach to things and the rivalries it produces. I don't very excited with TCU being in the MWC or Hawaii joining next year. Everything just becomes too disjointed. Just seems like we've been down this road before and it didn't work then....and I don't think it will work now.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 8:01 a.m.

    BYU left the WAC high and dry - twice!- and bailed on the MWC because they could get more money and exposure as a bachelor. BYU's awareness/complicity of the WAC's attempt to raid the MWC, because it would have benefitted *them*, was rewarded with WAC defections of Fresno and Nevada, and later, Hawaii, to the MWC

    Commenting on MWC teams vowing to not play BYU again, Tom Holmoe flippantly said "they'll get over it". This is like the guy who declares to all the women he's dated that he intends to remain a bachelor, until the truly right offer comes along, declaring "but there are some of you I wouldn't mind going on a vacation with, when you're done crying".

    BYU is like the political "climber" at the office, positioning individualistically, only to cry foul when a merger happens and blocks their path to the top floor. Crocodile tears. Boo-hoo.

  • Tanyrb Highland, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 7:41 a.m.

    The assessment is correct that super conferences are a bad thing and they are driven by ego and $$$ - the very same thing that caused the Utes to go to the PAC 12 and the Cougs to go Independent. If we are throwing super conferences under the bus we have to say the same thing about the moves made by the U and Y last year.

  • MC Ute Midvale, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 7:34 a.m.

    This really started a number of years ago with ND signing their exclusive contract with NBC. That started the ball rolling. Schools wanting to be part of a conference and collecting money and yet thinking they are larger than the whole and wanting their own networks. I know many will not want to hear this, however I feel ESPN is one of the biggest contributors to this whole thing. Unfortunatly money is the issue. It takes money to run businesses and college athletics are businesses. Yes rivals go away, things change, however budgets must be met and it takes money to do that. No realignment in sports is not always fair, may not work etc. but then life is not fair and many of these things happen every day in the real world, so until somebody comes up with a perfect solution that makes everybody happy, this will continue to evolve.

  • S.Andrew Zaelit Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 7:24 a.m.

    This is what happens when you abdicate your responsibility as a governing body. The NCAA has little authority to do anything of meaning in college football. The BCS could stop this by granting AQ status to the MWC and signing a contract guaranteeing the AQ status of all other current conferences despite expansion. This would level the expansion playing field. Super conferences will demand two BCS bids (anyone think the SEC will let only one team get an automatic bid or the Big 10?) to represent the conference. Scheduling anyone outside the conference of 16 members will become virtually impossible. Then you have other issues such as former "in" universities like Baylor being out while former "outs" like TCU are now included. This will get a whole lot uglier before it gets better. There could be massive litigation involved. Football is BIG business now with billions of dollars attached that the universities desperately need. Also, some state legislatures may also threaten actions in order to protect universities. The selfishness has only just begun and it looks like a lawyers bonanza.

  • Herby Hurricane, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 6:48 a.m.

    We can thank the system (BCS) that has created this behavior. Everybody wants to be BCS eligible. Therefore, everybody is willing to do what it takes to be able to play for a legitimate BCS bowl. Lets go to a playoff system and scrap the BCS. This would eliminate the current rush to super conferences.

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    Sept. 20, 2011 6:46 a.m.

    Classless Ute Fan

    Call us when you've actually accomplished something on a national scale, like become a perennial Top 25 team, or won a national individual award (of any kind), or had a single player inducted into the national college football hall of fame, or won a Heisman Trophy, or, the creme-de-la-creme, won a concensus national championship.

    Over 50 teams have played in BCS games since 1998.

    Only 13 teams have won a concensus national championships since 1984.

    You do the math and tell me which is more prestigious.

    AP Top 25 Last 5 Years
    BYU 4
    Utah 2

    AP Top 25 Lifetime
    BYU 17
    Utah 5

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Sept. 20, 2011 4:51 a.m.

    Dick - congrats on writing an article on expansion without mentioning BYU. Things must be pretty bad there.

    Ute fans - showing once again your lack of class, continuing to pile it on BYU even after the lopsided win. One more reason many of us could never live in your weird little state - all these Mormons hating their own church school and anything to do with it.

    Signing off for the season...

  • Honor Code Denver, Colorado
    Sept. 20, 2011 3:08 a.m.

    BYU went "Independent" Dick, so why all the commotion about the Super Conference?

    Hypocrisy getting the best of you?

  • Arynen Midvale, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 2:57 a.m.

    Super Conferences, and the BCS, are terrible for college football. They cater to the privileged, not the talented and deserving. Utah should know this more than anybody when they were kept out of NC game in 2008 simply because they weren't a "privileged" team. Boise St. is a college football powerhouse and they get kept out of the NC game because they are labeled "Non-AQ." What about the Big East? Their so-called champion went to a BCS bowl simply because of a label when 30 other teams were more deserving based off of performance. It's all a big joke people. Let go of the pride and open your eyes! The idea that anyone is more deserving simply because they belong to one of these conferences is absurd (Did I mention the Big East???). To say that only 64 schools are deserving of ever competing for a title is ridiculous. Who's to say that USU could never compete for a title? We all saw what they did to Auburn. Alabama could become New Mexico. San Jose St. could rise to power. The story of college football disappears and greatness ends with super conferences and becomes a joke.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Sept. 20, 2011 1:39 a.m.

    1. This will happen because of the money involved

    2. There are 64 slots in 4 superconferences of 16 each. That means 2 current BCS teams are on the outs.

    3. Because of #2 that is why you see Syracuse and Pitt jumping from the Big East.

    4. The two Texas school and OK schools are actively negotiating with the Pac 12

    5. The Big East is in talks to merge with the Big 12

    6. The SEC and Big 10 are already contacting teams from the Big 12 and A&M is jumping to SEC.

    Is it a good idea? Maybe not but you can pinpoint the BCS and this current merger climate on one thing, the mythical BYU season where they beat no one and claim to have some national title.

    This is the payback BYU, no one likes you.

    As for "Utah's Lucky Win", I will take the U blowing out BYU any way I can get. You are the one living with the heartache of the loss and your efforts to conceal it are sad.

  • Classless Ute Fan Magna, UT
    Sept. 20, 2011 12:35 a.m.

    Cougars - Wise Older Brother

    ***Despite the lucky win Saturday, it's hilarious to see the kids on the hill are still running scared of their big brother, hoping that he'll just go away.***

    Let's evaluate your statement. First, a 44 point win is not normally considered lucky. Second, 7 wins in the last 10 years (3 of which were huge blowout wins), again, not luck. Last, the 3 wins that BYU has in that time was on last second plays or OT, which by my definition is lucky. So, it looks like BYU was the lucky team to beat Utah at all in the last 10 years.

    Utah was founded in 1850, BYU was a private high school bought in 1875. So Utah would be the wise older brother. Number of students, I think that BYU has a slight edge. So, you need to change your name to maybe bigger but definitely not wise older brother.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Sept. 20, 2011 12:01 a.m.

    I don't see Texas A&M as the villain here. Everything I've seen would indicate that Texas likes to throw its weight around and now the conference they manhandled is crumbling around them. It looks like they are going to have to give in on some things or try to make it as an independent. It will be interesting to see what happens.

  • OTSS Tooele, UT
    Sept. 19, 2011 11:55 p.m.

    Dick u are not Fooling anybody the only reason u don't want it to happen is because you are scared to death that your beloved cougars will b left out in the cold. Poor attempt to try and bring up other lame excuses.

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 19, 2011 11:53 p.m.

    Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim. "Everybody knows why we are doing this football and money.

    "It's interesting because 30 years ago schools made X amount of money. Twenty years ago, they made 2X. Ten years ago, they made 6X. And you know what? They're going end up breaking even, just like they did 30 years ago. At the end of the day, there's a school with a billion-dollar budget and they're talking about making an extra $4 million. What does that really mean when your school's budget is a billion dollars?


    While schools make 2x, 6x, 15x, 20x, according to a study cited on PBS the average college scholarship falls $3,000 short of covering BASIC academic and living expenses. Meantime, the Athletic departments build fancy digs for donors, arena-temples to the football and basketball gods, and pay coaches $5 million per year while many "student athletes" graduate with degrees in basket weaving.

    How very, very Roman of us...

  • regis Murray, UT
    Sept. 19, 2011 11:39 p.m.

    I agree with Harmon that this "superconference" idea that seems all the rage right now could in fact turn out to be a big mistake after people get a chance to see how it actually works. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that the PAC 16, if it comes to pass, may not be all everybody thought or hoped it would be, and in 10 or 15 years, maybe less, schools are looking to get out of the deal in just the way Utah and BYU decided they wanted out of the "superconference" WAC. And if that happens, Utah might just find itself once again on the outside looking in.

    As a Ute fan, that worries me. Things are moving a little too fast and furious right now, and I'm not sure people really know what they're getting into.

  • regis Murray, UT
    Sept. 19, 2011 11:25 p.m.

    I think Harmon ought to remember some of the stuff BYU was trying to pull at the time it made the decision to go independent. BYU's sports administration was engaged in a lot of behind-the-scenes maneuvering to get teams from the MWC to jump ship and go to the WAC. Had these efforts been successful, the MWC would likely have imploded the way people are saying the Big 12 will probably implode if Texas and Oklahoma leave. And had that happened, does Harmon suppose anyone at BYU would have shed crocodile tears for schools left in the dust such as Air Force, CSU, or others?

    And then of course we should all remember Utah and BYU packing their bags in the middle of the night to ditch the WAC when they and the founding MWC schools got that enterprise going.

    Simply put, neither Utah nor BYU - and particularly not BYU - has any business critiquing other schools who "hypocritically" abandon oaths of allegiance to conferences or sister institutions "at the drop of a coin."

  • Daventry1701 SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 19, 2011 11:24 p.m.

    Cougars - Wise Older Brothers

    You aint seen nothing yet. Youll be screaming about "running scared" when we wont schedule byu anymore. Losing to BYU will be embarrasing and beating them means nothing. No reason to play. Welcome to the new order.

  • sheriffcreg SANDY, UT
    Sept. 19, 2011 11:15 p.m.

    Good conclusion - I agree that super-conferences are not a good thing - Except Dick Harmon wrote it. Any semblance of objectivity goes out the window when Utah and BYU are discussed.

  • Cougars - Wise Older Brothers Anaheim, CA
    Sept. 19, 2011 11:00 p.m.


    "Yes...it sends BYU to football oblivion but thats just an added bonus."

    Despite the lucky win Saturday, it's hillarious to see the kids on the hill are still running scared of their big brother, hoping that he'll just go away.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 19, 2011 10:54 p.m.

    Bad idea or not, the move by the ACC picking up their 13th and 14th schools, and maybe two more, along with A&M wanting to go to the SEC with their blessing, BCS superconferences will happen.

    Whether it ends up as four 16-team BCS conferences, or five mix-sized BCS conferences (with the Big East and Big XII combining) remains to be seen.

    BYU's best hope for inclusion in a BCS conference is if it ends up with five mix-sized, such as some at 16, some at 14, and some at 12.

    If it evolves into four 16-team superconferences, BYU will have to make independence work.

    Keep in mind that the only reason Notre Dame has remained independent in football is that they've had the Big East to park their other sports in. Could be a issue for them if the Big East disappears.

    Sept. 19, 2011 10:36 p.m.

    Hypocrite. Has this guy forgotten that Utah is in the PAC precisely because of conference expansion? Typical of the new guys, they get in and immediately want to shut the door to others.

  • Daventry1701 SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 19, 2011 10:34 p.m.

    Super conferences are great for college football!!!! Youll have 4 conference champions taken from championship games. If the BCS goes to a and one format (which theyll have no choice) what you'll have is essentially an 8 team playoff in college football....Amongst those BCS conferences. This pushes it in the right direction. Yes...it sends BYU to football oblivion but thats just an added bonus.

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    Sept. 19, 2011 10:23 p.m.

    You're right Dick. Utah would be much better off in the PAC 12, rather than in a PAC 16 not-so-super-conference. Unfortunately, Utah doesn't look like they have the guts to stick up for what's in their own best interest.

  • SoCalUtahFan Utesville, CA
    Sept. 19, 2011 10:16 p.m.

    When BYU announced its independent, it was "me, me, me, me" as well.

    And now, it looks like BYU may be standing on the sideline watching all of these super-conferences being formed.

    Utah, on the other hand, will wait to see what the new Pac-xx looks like.

  • three11stu Saratoga Springs, UT
    Sept. 19, 2011 10:04 p.m.

    Not being bitter, as I am a fan of both the U and the Y, but where was this outrage when Utah left the Mountain West for the Pac 12? I believe that was the start of all the shakeup, not what is taking place now.