Slow pace of realignment hurts college football

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  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    Sept. 8, 2011 11:30 p.m.

    As a Ute... who cares.

    I'm still eating my popcorn and watching the drama play out. BTW the lawsuits nice twist. Programs like Baylor trying desperately to hold on to something they don't deserve.

  • CoachWinWA POULSBO, WA
    Sept. 8, 2011 10:17 p.m.

    From what I have been reading, there is no minimum requirement as long as there is a school remaining. Even if there was a requirement, and I'm not saying there is, the schools leaving the conference give notice. For example A&M wants to leave at the end of June 2012, so it gives the conference plenty of time to find replacements without the # of schools dropping too low.

    This is actually a pretty good scenario for good, nonAQ qualifiers in the Mtn and Conf USA. The top of the Mtn West and the top of Conf USA play much better football than the BIG East. TCU would be fairly easy to lure back as they are still technically in the Mtn West and would probably rather not have to travel to the East Coast if there was BCS access closer to home.

    I dont think you are hearing too much about it now, other than in the markets of the schools that would be left in the BIG 12, because everyone assumes that the BIG 12 is dead without Texas and Oklahoma. Its a step down, but it may be what works for some teams.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    Sept. 8, 2011 9:59 p.m.

    Slow pace?

    Really? I thought it was going rather quickly considering the relatively few cahnges since the last 'major shift."

    dden45 | 7:38 p.m. Sept. 8, 2011
    Provo, Utah
    "Oh so we're gonna bash my education, seeing as if you click on the little BYU tab the story appears. Weird. Also, I did not know that it appeared under the Ute section."

    This is why it's generally not a good idea to call out fans of "the other team", but rather provide evidence where they may be mistaken. Calling out the "enemy" not only makes onesound like a hater, but it can come back to bite oneself. But, rather than admit the mistake, you've taken the road to insult the fanbase of the other team yet again.


  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 8, 2011 8:23 p.m.


    It was my understanding that the Big XII would actually LOSE their BCS status if their membership fell below 7 schools. So let's do the math:

    Big XII - Colorado - Nebraska - Texas A&M - (Oklahoma + Oklahoma St.) = Little VII.

    Little VII - Missouri - (Kansas + Kansas St.) - (Texas + Texas Tech) = little iii.

    little iii = no BCS status.

    The Big East had to replace Miami, Va. Tech, Boston College, and Temple back in 2005 since one more defection = no BCS status.

    I don't know if adding mid-majors to bring a conference up over 7 again counts for AQ consideration. I'm also not clear on whether a conference that loses over 75% of their conference is still considered that same conference. In fact, if I were to make a guess, Big XII - 75% of their conference = CUSA-16.

  • CoachWinWA POULSBO, WA
    Sept. 8, 2011 7:49 p.m.

    I've been doing some research reading the sports pages of the local papers of Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Oklahoma. I have read a few interesting articles that talk about the viability of the BIG12.

    I think what people are missing, and NavalVet, you are one of those people, is that the BIG 12 has an automatic invite to the BCS for the next three years. Even if there are only 2 teams left in the BIG 12, they can invite new schools and they retain that AQ status. This means that in some form or another, the BIG 12 will remain viable, as it could be rebuilt with the best non-AQ teams from Conf USA and the MTN West, and therefore be a stronger conference than the MTN West, WITH an auto bid, without the stifling MTN Network. Rebuilt, with the BCS Fiesta bowl tie in, they could possibly sway TCU back, and if so, raid the weaker BIG East teams of Pitt and Louisville to join BYU, Air Force, Houston, UCF, etc.

    The goal would be to continue to qualify for the BCS, and be that fifth superconference with BIG East, Mtn, Big12, and Conf USA teams.

  • dden45 Provo, Utah
    Sept. 8, 2011 7:38 p.m.

    Oh so we're gonna bash my education, seeing as if you click on the little BYU tab the story appears. Weird. Also, I did not know that it appeared under the Ute section. Wanna know why? I'm a BYU fan and I don't care about the Ute section, and do not click on it. Also weird.

    As for my comments on fake 'Ute fans'. What was the first thing that our friend Naval Vet (who's NOTORIOUS for posting in BYU articles) posted? Oh that's right, a crack at BYU fans and the program, nothing about the actual story. Weird again.

    Either way, I'm still laughing at the 'Ute fans' that continue to care more about BYU than their own team.

  • CoachWinWA POULSBO, WA
    Sept. 8, 2011 7:20 p.m.

    Sure seems like the Pac12 is laying eggs in their games this year in the out of conference games... Just listening to Arizona getting thumped by OK State.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 8, 2011 6:11 p.m.

    dden45 showing us that Y education at work calling out Utah fans for being on a supposed Y article that doesnt mention the Y (but does Utah) and is listed in Utah section. Glad I am a U of U fan as the other is kind of scary.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 8, 2011 5:41 p.m.


    "For over a year now you have been insisting that BYU would never be considered for a BCS conference, and that the only people who were even talking about it were BYU fans."

    Now you're just trying to change the argument. Just admit were wrong. You frantically and emotionally lashed out at me for no reason. I accurately pointed out that the Y will not be calling any shots until all those aforementioned parties ahead of them makes their choices. Ergo, the Y is the impotent party involved.

    As for my previous article insistences that the Y would be "mid-majors forever"...that has not yet been proven to be false.

    Neither had my previous article insistences that the Y had never been edged out of the Big XII by Texas Tech and Baylor.

    Neither had my previous article insistences that despite the 2-team vacancies in the Big XII due to the departures of Colorado and Nebraska, the Y was not wanted.

    Neither had my previous article insistences that the Y had never been passed over by the Pac-8/10/12 due to religious discrimination.

    So far, I've been batting 1.000.

  • Starfarer Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 8, 2011 4:12 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    I find it interesting that you spend so much time looking for BYU's future.

    It must be exhausting to scour all the sources that say BYU is in or out.

    Especially when you hate them so bad.

    Man, I love BYU, but haven't got the time you do as you research out if they are going to be in a BCS conference or not.

    I guess I will just live in the present and enjoy the ride. I can't do anything about it anyway, and in the end. I will still be a cougar fan.

    Imagine if you spent that time actually rooting for your team.

  • dknight68 Ogden, ut
    Sept. 8, 2011 3:37 p.m.


    Is this a BYU story? I looked but could not find BYU mentioned in it anywhere, I did however see that Utah was mentioned and the conferance they play in was mentioned several times but no BYU?

    Perhaps you are commenting on a Utah Story?

  • RepresentBlue West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 8, 2011 3:32 p.m.

    Naval Vet,

    For over a year now you have been insisting that BYU would never be considered for a BCS conference, and that the only people who were even talking about it were BYU fans. Now we have concrete and irrefutable evidence that BYU is not only being considered, they are the leading candidate and will almost certainly get an invitation if Oklahoma decides to stay. Yes, BYU's future is in the hands of other schools and other conferences, but that was also true of Utah before they got their Pac-12 invite. Monson is right, BYU's situation is precarious and Holmoe needs to be proactive in this process, not simply reactive. He needs to be selling BYU - their nationwide fanbase, their BCS caliber facilities, their Top 25 ranked program, their 8 year multi-million dollar contract with ESPN, etc, etc. BYU has A LOT more to offer a BCS conference than Utah does, if that conference is willing to look past the religious affiliation and policy of never playing on Sunday. The Big 12 has a much easier time accepting those things then the liberal Pac-8 schools. Baylor is a religious school that avoids playing on Sunday.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 8, 2011 2:49 p.m.

    Henry Drummond:

    Experts believe if the SEC expands [adds Texas A&M], they'll most likely grow to 16 rather than 14. And if the SEC grows to 16, the Pac-12, B1G, and ACC will likely follow suit. And in THAT case, it's likely Missouri will migrate to either the B1G or the SEC, and Oklahoma moves to the Pac-xx. If OU moves to the Pac-xx, it is believed they'll drag OSU with them. A Big XII sans Oklahoma, OSU, Texas A&M, and Missouri collapses.

    Texas has options. If they go to the Pac-xx, they'll bring Texas Tech with them. If they go to the B1G, Texas Tech will not. Texas has shown no interest in the SEC, but the ACC might do.

    If A&M and OU leave the Big XII, I don't think we'll see a Big XII anymore.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 8, 2011 2:35 p.m.

    According to the SLTrib's article "BYU football teetering on the edge of oblivion", sportswriter/cougar alumnus Gordon Monson writes:

    " bit of speculation Kyle Whittingham and Bronco Mendenhall agree on: Superconferences are coming. The question isnt so much if or when although, with the increasingly uncertain status of the Big 12, the latter is both accelerating and becoming more tantalizing its who? And how many?.....Utah, as part of the Pac-12, is a lock.....BYU, though, finds itself in a precarious position."

    Looks like Monson and I are in rare agreement.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 8, 2011 2:30 p.m.


    So in other words, what you're saying is you AGREE that I'm right in that "...the SEC, the Pac-12, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Texas" are in control of the Y's athletic future. I don't see any attack on their credibility on my part.

    I DO see a lack of comprehension on YOUR part however. How embarrassing for you.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Sept. 8, 2011 2:28 p.m.

    If Oklahoma and Oklahoma State end up in the PAC-14 where does that leave Texas? I don't think anyone trust UT anymore. That is why the schools that can are heading for the exits. Nobody from a BCS conference wants to join them. BCS conferences won't take Texas unless they make major concessions which they seem unwilling to even consider. That leaves a conference with Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, Iowa State, and maybe Missouri. Can adding some mid-majors such as Air Force, BYU, and SMU really save it?

  • RepresentBlue West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 8, 2011 2:05 p.m.

    "I guess that's what happens when one blocks out alternative news sources...such as ESPN, Orangebloods, or any source outside of the Y's arm of athletic propaganda, also known as the Deseret News."

    Naval Vet,

    ESPN and are just two of the many media outlets who have reported that BYU is the leading candidate to replace A&M if Oklahoma commits to staying. Here is a quote from an ESPN article written yesterday by Andy Katz and Joe Schad:

    "Meanwhile, if Oklahoma commits to the Big 12 and Texas A&M leaves for the SEC, the Big 12 is going to pursue BYU as a 10th member, according to the source. The source said there was strong interest from the Cougars prior to last week's comments from Oklahoma president David Boren that the Sooners were exploring their options."

    So are you going to attack their credibility now as well? You are the one who has ZERO credibility.

  • dden45 Provo, Utah
    Sept. 8, 2011 12:59 p.m.

    Oh Naval Vet, you continue to make me laugh. Keep the hatred flowing, its good for you.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 8, 2011 10:51 a.m.

    @ Classless Ute Fan,

    Actually, 5 BCS superconferences isn't an issue with a 4-team playoff. The 4 teams would be the top BCS-ranked teams, regardless of conference. It's possible one conference could produce two top-4 ranked teams.

    And yes, it'd be possible to have no undefeated teams, allowing such a scenario to happen. In other words, there doesn't have to be a playoff seat guaranteed to each conference. That way you don't have Big Least debacles with unranked or lowly-ranked teams getting BCS bowls.

    Remember, BCS ranking includes computers where SOS is part of it, so polls and records are skewed by that.

    The whole issue most people have with no playoff is that undefeated teams, when there are three or more in a given year, don't have a chance to prove themselves. A 4-team playoff resolves that main issue most of the time.

    Also, if there ARE 5 BCS superconferences, all the mid-majors would combine into two 14-team conferences, AND they'd have a seat at the table, else litigation would tear the BCS apart. So, I don't see them being totally left out. No AQ, but access none-the-less.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 8, 2011 10:30 a.m.

    I have to laugh at the naive optimism expressed by "dden45" and "Starfarer" regarding their unwitting position as an impotent Indy-WACer awaiting all the pending moves of those in front of them...the SEC, the Pac-12, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Texas. I guess that's what happens when one blocks out alternative news sources...such as ESPN, Orangebloods, or any source outside of the Y's arm of athletic propaganda, also known as the Deseret News.

    I really do have to laugh. Why else would I read the comments on Y articles? It really IS funny!

  • axle Riverton, UT
    Sept. 8, 2011 10:11 a.m.

    I am totally with the "lets just get this over with" opinion. If it is pretty much all mapped out and everyone knows what they want in the end, just do it. Not knowing where you are going to be playing, or who you are going to be playing, breaking up rivalries and all this junk is getting really old.

  • Starfarer Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 8, 2011 9:47 a.m.

    Naval Vet

    It is also a laugh that you think you know what is going to happen and you are disingenuous in thinking that BYU is not in a good situation.

    No one knows what is going to happen. Least of all you, who hates BYU and takes every chance to cheap shot them.

    Don't pretend to be "All Knowing" about something you are not involved in.

    When you get a vote, or an invite to the meetings, let us know.

  • dden45 Provo, Utah
    Sept. 8, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    I have to laugh at 'Ute fans' that comment more on BYU stories more than their own.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 8, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    Haha! I have to laugh at all the Y fans like WhatsInItForMe who either believe, or are disingenuously posturing, as though they're in a good situation right now with all this realignment ado.

    The fact is, they're not. Their ONLY hope is that Oklahoma opts to recommit to the Big XII, and that the Big XII opts to replace Texas A&M with their bush league, no-BCS-bowling school.

    Whether or not Baylor drops their desperate suit against the Aggies and the SEC is immaterial. A&M is going to the SEC, and those other Big XII schools have no case. A&M is only obligated to their exit clause. Any expenses incurred by those othe Big XII schools in good faith that the Aggies wouldn't have bolted is the responsibilities of those other schools. The Big XII the Aggies committed was not the one that materialized anyway...thanks to Texas and their overplayed hand.

    All cougar fans can do is keep their little blue noses pressed up against the glass and hold their collective breaths. The SEC, Pac-12, Texas, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma are calling the shots now. Not you. You can only "hope".

  • Classless Ute Fan Magna, UT
    Sept. 8, 2011 2:19 a.m.


    ***FIVE 14-team BCS super conferences are still a possibility...***

    Interesting proposal. However, a playoff of 5 teams doesn't really work, now does it? That is why 4x 16 team conferences is the discussion (and most likely outcome). Even if you wanted an 8 team playoff, you could just take 2 from each conference. Mathematically, 4 conferences just works better.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 8, 2011 12:12 a.m.

    Now, if the Big XII CAN save itself, FOUR 16-team BCS superconferences might never happen because the Pac-12 wouldn't have four worthy schools to add.

    FIVE 14-team BCS superconferences is still a possibility, with the Big XII being one of them, and the Pac-12 then needing to elevate two mid-majors. The Big East and ACC would need to combine.

    There are 68 BCS teams (counting TCU in 2012). So, four 16-team conferences means 4 current BCS teams would need to lose their status. Five 14-team conferences means 2 mid-majors would need to be elevated.

    Those numbers are affected, though, by whether Notre Dame and BYU remain independent, or become parts of those superconferences.

    With A&M going to the SEC, for sure 12 isn't going to be the norm going forward. The SEC's been the leader in football lately (re: NCs), so if they expand past 12, others will, too.

    When Oklahoma makes up its mind over the next few weeks, we'll maybe know BYU's possible future with that conference.

    I personally would like to see five 14-team superconferences. BYU could remain independent with that scenario, or be included.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 8, 2011 12:06 a.m.

    Interesting where ESPN has deals with BYU (BYUtv) and Texas (TLN) and the Big XII's tier-one TV rights are with Fox (ESPN's competition).

    Is ESPN trying to break up the Big XII and eventually get an "ESPN college conference" of all the big boys, like Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, USC, et al, and where BYU is part of that fraternity? Kill two birds with one stone?