Brad Rock: BYU should hold its ground and watch as dominoes fall

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  • ol' ball coach BOERNE, TX
    Sept. 13, 2011 11:04 a.m.

    I paid about $1000 to see the game in Austin. I think the offensive coaches should reimbuse me. Watching the "I hope the clock runs out soon" offense was worse live than on TV. I have coached hundreds of games and everybody's got it right - only losers play not to lose. Somebody wake these guys up soon, please. Need to say, however, the defense is busting their butts and do not deserve to lose.

  • Blue Tater WEBSTER, TX
    Sept. 7, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    Brad, Brad, Brad, how do you come to all the conclusions on how good being independent is for BYU? Not much of a track record yet.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Sept. 7, 2011 3:00 p.m.


    I'm a K-State alum (and WSU). As a BCS school we don't want a conference rebuilt with mid-majors.
    We can easily end up in the Big East, PAC12 or BIG TEN.

    And why would BYU want to get involved in the turmoil of the BIG12? It would be even worse if Texas stayed.

  • magicmarker GILBERT, AZ
    Sept. 7, 2011 2:43 p.m.

    There will be four super conferences - they will have a play off - which will arrive at a football final four. PAC will not take BYU, SEC will not take BYU, the eastern-based new conference - whatever it will be called - will not invite BYU. That only leaves the Big 10...unless they pick up BYU it will be relegated to small time football - perhaps they can join up with the Utah State's and UNLVs of the world and fulfill their mission that way - but it won't be on the stage with the big boys.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Sept. 7, 2011 2:40 p.m.

    CoachWinWA said:

    ".....PAC 16 with BYU will NEVER happen. Its either independence, or a remade BIG12, or an east coast conference."

    The best option is to join the BIG12, ride it out, try to rebuild, enjoy the money, exposure, scheduling and BCS access it would provide, all the while knowing independence is an option. Keep the tvnetwork, the espn deal all while in the BIG12. If it breaks up, then move to option B and C, which are return to independent status or get an invite from the east coast to join a conference."

    I'm not a BYU fan and thought the same thing recently about the PAC12. And watching things develop recently, never say never. I think we will see OU & OSU go over to the PAC. Not Texas and its bag of issues. Soon after, two more schools will be added for a 16 team conference.
    The BIG12 is going to dissolve. There is no way around that now. That will not be a home for BYU.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    Sept. 7, 2011 1:53 p.m.

    The 3-tier future of college football?

    Tier 1: Super 64 ... 4 team playoffs?
    Tier 2: Mid-Majors
    Tier 3: FCS

    It seems to be headed that way, ESPN had mentioned a 3-tier system on Monday as well.

    Big 10 wants Notre Dame and BYU is a good fit for the Big 12 but their is no Big 12 if OU and Texas leave.

    So what does BYU do? Stay put and get stuck as an Indy mid-major? Maybe ACC?

    Regardless, we went through this last year. So I'll just relax, grab some popcorn, and watch the drama play out.

  • CoachWinWA POULSBO, WA
    Sept. 7, 2011 1:20 p.m.

    Kellis Robinett of the Wichita Eagle wrote the following...

    "The top priority remains helping the Big 12 expand after the expected loss of Texas A&M. Should any combination of the Oklahoma schools, Texas or Texas Tech jump to the Pac-12 shortly after, there are differing opinions on whether the Big 12 could be rebuilt. But Im told K-State also considers that a possible backup option."

    What I take from this is that even with UT, OKstate, OK, and TT going to the Pac16, Kansas State considers the rebuilding of the conference a viable back up option. Reinforcing what I have been saying, and that is that the BIG 12 will still be an Automatic Qualifying conference with a strong pull to bring in quality football schools to retain that talent. They would have the pick of the top of the mtn west, the top of conf usa, and the potential to take from the current Big East. Dont think that TCU wouldnt want to be the top Texas school in a local BCS conference.

    Again, the remade BIG 12 would be everything BYU wants, without the headache of the MTN network, +AQ status.

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    Sept. 7, 2011 12:31 p.m.

    I'm a huge football fan but understand Utah and BYU still need to be connected. I believe that staying put and being patient will benefit byu more than jumping to a an unstable conference. BYU has too much money available to not be invited to a good conference. Someone will bend on the Sunday play. I don't think the PAC 12 will bend because Stanford, WA and Cal are very much against BYU in the PAC.

    Sept. 7, 2011 12:02 p.m.

    The superconferences are coming and BYU will be left out. I think we all know it, and it is only a matter of time. There is no REALISTIC scenario where BYU fits any of the superconferences.

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 7, 2011 11:19 a.m.

    The best scenario would be if the Pac-12 invited Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and BYU. Kansas and Colorado become travel partners. BYU and Utah return to travel partners and you end up with the best conference in the country. I know, it won't happen. But you have to admit, it would be great.

  • CoachWinWA POULSBO, WA
    Sept. 7, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    PAC 16 with BYU will NEVER happen. Its either independence, or a remade BIG12, or an east coast conference.

    The best option is to join the BIG12, ride it out, try to rebuild, enjoy the money, exposure, scheduling and BCS access it would provide, all the while knowing independence is an option. Keep the tvnetwork, the espn deal all while in the BIG12. If it breaks up, then move to option B and C, which are return to independent status or get an invite from the east coast to join a conference.

    You cant count on an east coast invite, so better to be leading the charge in remaking the BIG12.

    Think of the BIG 12 as accomplishing what BYU wished the MtnWest could have done for them. AQ status, national TV, not regional, take only the best teams from the MTN and Conf USA and retain AQ status.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Sept. 7, 2011 10:52 a.m.

    I thought BYU turned down the Big 12. That is what other media outlets have been saying. Could cougar fans provide clarification on this please.

    Will not go into why BYU is not accepted into the PAC 12 now. That has been beaten like a pinata.
    But I will say this. With the conference landscape changing. I think the PAC 12 is considering BYU again. In the end, money talks. The question would be what would BYU do with its ESPN contract?

  • CoachWinWA POULSBO, WA
    Sept. 7, 2011 10:30 a.m.

    I don't see why everyone thinks the BIG 12 goes away. That is the problem with everyone's reasoning.

    The BIG 12 is an automatic qualifying conference. It will still be even if Texas, TT, OK and OKState leave.

    BYU joining now is like sitting at a poker table with two hands. The independence is already a known quantity and can be relied on at any time. However, what people fail to realize is the geographical implications. BYU needs to get a seat at the table in the BIG 12, and immediately work hand in hand with the remaining schools to remake the conference with the ultimate goal of stability and retaining AQ status.

    Without a BIG12, BYU will not be in the PAC16, which means they are stuck waiting for an EastCoast Conference invite, which wont be the SEC. The problem is, there are plenty of geographically eastern teams that may get invites to the conferences before BYU. The scenario of an invite from an Eastern conference is also the same whether BYU stays independent or joins the BIG12.
    Join and rebuild with the best MTN West/Conf USA teams. Get BCS access, scheduling, keep network and ESPN contract.

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    Sept. 7, 2011 10:01 a.m.

    Cogent analysis by Brad Rock.

    BYU is in a good spot now. They have a very good TV contract with ESPN. Go to the ESPN BYU page and you will see 7 of the BYU games were (Ole Miss) or are on either ESPN or ESPN2.

    Do the same for:
    -Texas (4 games on ESPN or ABC)
    -Utah (1 on versus, 1 on ESPN with BYU)
    -USC (8 with a mix of Versus, FX, NBC, ABC, ESPN)
    -Oklahoma has 5 on either FX or ESPN or ABC

    More games for these teams and BYU will be on ESPN, FX, Fox, ABC, etc., but BYU is well positioned now!

    Yep, if I were BYU, I'd let the dust settle on the Big 12 and ensure first that it stays virtually intact as currently set minus Texas A&M. If the Big 12 finalizes their pending TV contract with ESPN and if TX, Texas Tech, the Oklahoma schools and Missouri all stay and if the conference then extends an invite to BYU, I would only take the offer if I'm a full fledged, revenue sharing member as Oklahoma or Missouri or even Texas would be under a new TV agreement.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Sept. 7, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    Honor Code | 3:22 a.m. Sept. 7, 2011
    Denver, Colorado
    I think it's actually cool watching the Kitties staring from outside the window!!


    How cute. You think your TV is a window.

    Just like the Clampets.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 7, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    Rock here you go again...BYU is one game into independence and you think it is the best thing for them. Do you really think their independence has had enough time to be judged? Sure their first game was a success, but how would you be judging it if they had lost or after their first loss. Would staying independent still be the best thing BYU could do? Have you looked at this years home schedule? How many two for ones has BYU already agreed to? Just to complete scheduling? Remember as an independent one loss and your done. No championship, no BCS, no major bowl, and no big time exposure! Did you really think this through?

  • Zoniezoobie Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 7, 2011 8:56 a.m.

    The SEC has extended an invitation to TAMU to join their league unless any Big 12 school objects, and Baylor has indicated it will block the move.

  • Benhur Everett, WA
    Sept. 7, 2011 8:46 a.m.

    When it comes to being invited to super conferences or any "big" conference, at this point, BYU is destined to be a wallflower. Independence is the only option.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Sept. 7, 2011 8:01 a.m.

    I would also be asking myself why so many other teams are saying no to the BIG 12 and why the other teams are leaving. The BIG 12 is no longer an athletic conference, its a soap opera.

  • Honor Code Denver, Colorado
    Sept. 7, 2011 3:22 a.m.

    I think it's actually cool watching the Kitties staring from outside the window!!

    Gettin' a little chilly out there isn't it??

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 9:34 p.m.

    Does anyone really believe that the LDS Church gives a hoot about which conference any of us think BYU football should play in? BYU makes their own decisions and is totally in control of their own destiny. Nothing will ever beat independence as far as the Church is concerned.

    They will never go back to a conference structure. Ever. Why should they? They will corner the market on "Mormon" gear, world exposure, talented LDS athletes and they will do all of this within the framework of the mission of the Church. They don't need the PAC43 or the Big87. They've got it all and nobody to bow down to. How great is that?

  • CougarClassic Orem, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 9:13 p.m.

    The bottom line is Brad Rock is a Ute fan and his columns generally come from a Ute perspective. I don't care that he is a Ute fan and it doesn't mean he can't be objective about his Utes.

    Obviously, any talks with the Big 12 or whatever it will become, and BYU, will come with certain stipulations. Hence, having Rock write an article that BYU should just stay put, places Rock in a position of authority and "in the know," when in reality Rock is writing his monthly or bi-quarterly BYU article, so he can gauge whether or not BYU fans are reading.

    This article agrees strongly both ways--stay Independent unless Texas and OU stay in the Bi 12, then if BYU turns down the Big 12, Rock can write that BYU should have gone to the Big 12.

    By the way, I love it when Rock says, "Some say I'm a Ute, some say I'm a Cougar." Uhh, errr, no they don't. Everyone says you're a Ute, even my Ute friends.

    I honestly believe that the Desnews needs fresh writers.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 8:52 p.m.

    Go Big Blue: I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions, but where is your documentation. I do not accept heresay, feelings, or other undocumented statements. Your non-factual statement makes me think of Utah & TCU, who also left the MWC. Utah left first. If they have a right to leave for the Pac 12, doesn't BYU have a right to leave for independence & TCU for an eastern conference? Might one say that Mr Thompson "ruined" the WAC by raiding it of their best teams? It is all conjecture, as is your statement, which conjecture is nothing more than "opinion that is in the eye of the beholder!"

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 8:38 p.m.

    It would not be a bad thing if Texas, TT, OU and OSU leave the Big 12 along with Texas A&M, and BYU joins the remain 5 schools as part of the new Big 12. The BCS affiliation is with the conference not the schools and remains intact through 2013. So, now you have a league in which the Y is very competitive with BCS bowl on the line for at least 2 years. Of course, other teams would need to be added, but with the draw of the AQ status that should be pretty easy to accomplish. Go after Arkansas, TCU, Houston, BSU, and a team from the Denver market. So what if it is a glorified WAC. Nothing wrong with that if you include a BCS AQ invitation for the winner of the league.

  • B Logan, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 8:38 p.m.


    "There will be no room for mid majors or independents when super-conferences rule the land."

    You say that as if it's a good thing. Do you really want certain teams left out in the cold?

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 6, 2011 7:30 p.m.

    I think the college football dominoe falling will be a bigger spectacle than the Kinetic King's exploits.

    I see Notre Dame as a key part of keeping the Big XII solvent, but not a required part. ND would more likely join the Big XII than the Big Ten because of its TV contracts.

    14-team superconferences is the only way the Big XII survives conference growth, which it could do without Notre Dame. That means the Pac-12 would only be adding 2 teams, and maybe not even BCS ones from the Big XII, unless the Big XII replaced the two they lost with similar quality teams. The Pac could be stuck with elevating mid-majors. (It did with Utah!)

    16-team leagues wouldn't work for independence, but 14-team superconferences would still work for BYU's ability to still schedule as an independent. However, five 14-team conferences could easily include BYU in the Big XII's version.

    BYU could win, either way.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 7:19 p.m.

    Somebody should tell the LDS Church hierarchy that the Church will grow exponentially if BYU plays football in bigger stadiums. That goes for basketball too.

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 7:00 p.m.

    SLCBYUfan: What people need to realize is that within the LDS Church hierarchy there are those who strongly feel BYU should curtail its athletic presence to preferably the WCC participation, and drop football entirely. We saw something happen similarly up in Rexburg, Idaho 11 years ago where very swiftly the church came out and without further deliberation ordered all intercollegiate athletics to be dismantled.
    Where do you come up with such statements, I don't see your comments having any substance. Back up your statement. IMO your comments are just your opinion and have no factual basis.
    Junkgeek: BYU will never change it's position on Sunday play, simply put it just won't happen.
    dansimp: I agree with your comments, BYU should stay put as an independent and when & or if the big major 16 team super conferences come to fruition BYU will get invited because they do draw fans and make everyone money.

  • defibman Syracuse, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 6:39 p.m.

    Bottom line is that the BCS is going away. I give it another couple of years, but people (fans) will get so tired of their antics that Congress will step in and break it all up, or they will collapse due to their own greed and stupidity. Either way they are going down and that will be in the favor of anyone who is independent. Even if there were several "super conferences", college football will be in the same predicament.

  • Pete in Texas Copperas Cove, TX
    Sept. 6, 2011 6:33 p.m.

    Folks, to those of you who think you know what BYU does and doesn't bring to the table, you just need to understand one thing: BYU brings a fan-base with them anywhere in the country. (Translated: money.) While "major" colleges struggle to fill their own stands at home games, BYU represents well either at home, or away. At the end of the day, it's all about money. Don't believe for a minute that BYU isn't on a lot of conferences minds. They've been on the PAC-?'s minds forever, but since they wouldn't play Sundays, among other criteria, the liberal PAC schools wouldn't include them as much as the PAC would have loved their money. I hope that BYU takes it's time. A lot of universities across the US would give a "knee jerk" reaction at the thought of being invited because simply put, they need money and exposure. BYU doesn't now that they're independent. More money is always nice, but don't kid yourself for one minute and think that they're operating in the red like most other universities are and HAVE to join a conference ASAP. It's not that way. Take your time, Cougars.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 5:49 p.m.

    Texas and OK will not go independent without a BCS deal like Notre Dame. Likewise, ND will not join a super conference because they have an exclusive BCS deal.

    The PAC-12 and Texas each have their TV deals so last year's offer is gone.

    So, the question remains; what is the SEC doing if they take Texas A&M? The PAC-12 is not going to let the SEC go super conference and will expand against their choice.
    Anyway you add it up, there are not enough seats for every BCS conference team in a super conference scenario and there will be fewer BCS auto-bids left.

    BYU has got to join the Big 12 and fast. Texas isn't moving and has a seat to the big dance.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Sept. 6, 2011 5:42 p.m.


    Don't panic. Buck the trend. Ride this out.

    BYU should have absolutely no fear of 'doing something different' because, quite frankly, everything is different about BYU. Our football program's goals, we won't play on Sunday (ever), our Honor Code and school rules, even right down to the 'no bare stomachs' on our cheerleaders and the liquid drinks allowed on campus. We got a ton of attention in the sports world because we didn't give in to the MWC's demands and said, "Fine, we'll go our own way" and we did just that.

    So, go our own way. If Texas leaves (and does anyone really think they'll stay?) the league will collapse or be full of only bottom-dwellers.

    Stay the course. We may join an AQC someday but not right now.

  • Outsider Looking In BOISE, ID
    Sept. 6, 2011 5:41 p.m.

    Most notably Notre Dame, although a very fine academic institution, is not a member of the AAU. To exclude BYU because they do not have a graduate school/PhD focus is duplicitous. The fact is most universities of 30,000 students are either overgrown commuter schools (UCF) or offer every PhD under the sun regardless of their caliber (Oklahoma St). BYU is one of the rare exceptions that has kept its undergraduate focus to the exclusion of graduate level research. The PAC-12 would seriously hurt their argument that they have an academic standard by inviting any of the Big-12 teams (excepting Texas, Missouri, Iowa St. or Kansas--the only reputable graduate schools in the Big 12). Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would be embarrassing. The PAC-12 can't seriously say that BYU isn't up to snuff when compared to WSU, ASU, OSU, and UofU, unless they are comparing research funding tied to graduate programs. What does that have to do with athletic conferences for undergraduates exactly? The AAU distinction is pure garbage when it comes to athletic conferences, unless you are an athletic conference born out of old academic alliances (Ivy, Big Ten).

  • Outsider Looking In BOISE, ID
    Sept. 6, 2011 5:34 p.m.

    One of the things I do not understand are those who insist that most conferences have serious and legitimate academic creiteria for inclusion. The only "major" conference which can say this with a straight face is the Big 10. Every single university in the Big 10, as of 2010, was a member of the American Association of Universities--a conglomeration of the most prestigious academic research institutions in the US. Although not definitive, the organization maintains high standards for research funding and scholarship and is widely considered to be an exclusive group which includes the premier (public and private) PhD granting institutions in the country. This list generally does not consider whether the schools have professional schools (medical, law, business, or engineering), although many of them do. Until Nebraska was removed in 2011, every school in the Big 10 was a member, and it seemed to be a prerequisite to receving an invite. On the other hand none of the PAC-12 "State" schools (WSU, OSU, ASU, or Utah) is a member. And none of them have a chance in the foreseeable future. The ACC=5, Big 12=5 (including Texas A&M), SEC=2, and big East=2.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 5:22 p.m.

    @ Duckhunter | 4:56 p.m. Sept. 6, 2011
    Highland, UT

    SLC BYU Fan lives by the source, he coaches their kids in sports and he takes pitching and quarterback lessons from them.


  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Sept. 6, 2011 5:00 p.m.

    Since nobody knows what the superconferences will or will not do, how do you posers know that BYU would be doomed? Why would they not pick BYU as a superconference member? BYU is a national brand and a decent to good team with occasional excellent teams. There are few teams in the NCAA that is a consistent as BYU is, year in year out. And BYU fans travel. Ole Miss game had 6 or 8 thousand BYU fans from 37 (or so) states according to Alumni tent statement.

    I think BYU should wait until things settle. Why would someone take, say, Kansas State or Iowa State over BYU for a super conference? Or Utah for that matter (oh wait, someone did). Sorry, I was being rational again, and I'm not sure the world is rational. Witness the GOP candidates this year. Elmer Fudd for President, anyone?

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Sept. 6, 2011 4:58 p.m.

    First of all, it doesn't matter if there are super conferences or not. In order for BYU, Boise State or any other teams to be left out of a National Championship or BCS series, all of the Super Conferences would have to leave the NCAA and form a new Athletic league that would be other than the NCAA. Otherwise all these Anti-Trust lawsuits would have meat to sink their teeth into. Ride it out BYU and see where the chips fall. As for those who think BYU will suck it up and play on Sunday, again you live in a fantasy world. BYU is not in this for the money however, the money we will take. Why a lot of you can't just accept or understand that fact is beyond me.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 4:56 p.m.

    @SLC BYU Fan

    How many times, and in how many articles, are you going to post that exact same stuff? It is getting old. You post it all of the time, sometimes multiple times per day. Please tell us your sources because I'll tell you I know alot of people and none of them, litterally none of them, have the feelings about BYU athletics you attribute to them.

    You constantly refer to what occured with Ricks as if it somehow relates to BYU, it does not. The situations are completely different. In actuallity part of the impetus for ending athletics at BYU Idaho was so it didn't compete with the flagship BYU and had nothing to do with an LDS heiarchy animous towards athletics.

    Plain and simple if you are going to post that same tired stuff day after day after day in article after article after article, as if you actually have some sort of inside knowledge about it, then you need to give us the lowdown. Who do you know? What have they told you directly? When did they tell it to you? And what is your motivation to continually post about it?

    I'm not buying it.

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 4:41 p.m.

    I honestly think we're premature with talk of "superconferences." The PAC-12 was interested in Texas and Oklahoma from the Big 12 last year. A lot has changed since then, and since FOX owns the PAC-12, now, Texas and Oklahoma can not be appeased. The PAC-12 will need concessions to add Texas or Oklahoma.

    The Big Ten, meanwhile, now has 12 teams, and are smug. Missouri has been trying to get into the Big Ten for years, and the Big Ten isn't interested. I think if Texas wanted to get into the Big Ten, they could, but I'm not sure the Big Ten is interested in any other Big 12 schools.

    The SEC is the player, in my opinion. They are in a position to start plucking from the Big 12 and the ACC. A&M? Florida State? Texas? Oklahoma? The SEC makes the next year interesting.

    BYU is in a pickle. The PAC-12 has spoken. The ACC and SEC are so far away while SEC has closer options. In the world of superconferences, either the Big Ten or Big 12 won't survive. BYU's only unexplored options are the ACC or Big 12, or wait.

  • belgie Tualatin, OR
    Sept. 6, 2011 4:28 p.m.

    Well, maybe Brad Rock has some insider info not available to the rest of us, or maybe he's recognizing something that he isn't saying (that nobody else sees), but it seems to me that he's got it all wrong.

    A week ago, I was elated at the prospect of aTm leaving the B12, because BYU is the obvious replacement. Now, though, it appears to be a harbinger of death (for both BYU and Boise state - two deserving programs).

    If Texas concedes the LHN and joins the PAC, Oklahoma, OSU, and TT all go with it. Kansas, Kansas State, and Missouri will all join either the Big East or the ACC. Baylor and Iowas St., rightfully, get left out. That leaves no conference for BYU. Neither the B10 nor the PAC will have them, and they don't make sense in any of the eastern conferences.

    Kind of throws a wrench in the whole "exposure" machine.

  • JonnyDanger HOUSTON, TX
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:36 p.m.

    A couple of observations:

    Super conferences are all about $$. That is what drives the ship. The new TV deals made people go gaga for the megabucks and superconferences WILL provide megabucks (and are therefore likely to happen...unfortunately).

    Most likely, IF superconferences happen, it will start with OU/OSU, Texas/TT going to the PAC. The lame part about that (esp. for BYU and BSU) is that that would leave ONE super conference in the entire western US and THREE in the East. The PAC will never take BYU (religion) or BSU (academics and other sports) and so there is no other option for them. I realize there are more teams in the East than the West, but it would make more geographic sense if the Big12 were one of the superconferences...I just don't see that happening.

    Rick's college losing their football team was an entirely different situation than BYU. The football team makes all of athletics self-sufficient and returns $ to the university, thus decreasing the tithing funds necessary to run BYU. Exposure, revenue and donor dollars are all too great to throw out (which was not the case at Ricks).

    I hope it all works out...

  • Big Hapa Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:31 p.m.

    No way, you are wrong. The BYU needs to be in a conference, case in point, last Saturdays game against a lack luster SEC team the cougars looked bad to slightly good in a nationally televised game.

    That poor offensive out put knocked the BYU down allot nationally the score board does not lie and the Cougars need to step it up quickly against these { tongue & cheek } better schools and conferences our they will be a laughing stock.

  • Ben H Clearfield, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:31 p.m.

    BYU should wait and watch the dominoes fall, and as College Football's Division I gets an new subdivision for the elite schools BYU will be on the outside looking in, just like the were in the Mountain West. BYU joins the Big 12 and they are on the outside looking in. In the long run, independence wins them nothing but 12 games to schedule each year instead of 4.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:30 p.m.

    SLC [Utah] Fan

    "What people need to realize is that within the LDS Church hierarchy there are those who strongly feel BYU should curtail its athletic presence to preferably the WCC participation, and drop football entirely. We saw something happen similarly up in Rexburg, Idaho 11 years ago where very swiftly the church came out and without further deliberation ordered all intercollegiate athletics to be dismantled."

    This is simply a pipe dream of an obvious BYU hater.

    BYU Idaho dropped intercollegiate sports because the school was moving from a 2-year junior college to a four-year university, which would have greatly increased athletic expenses and forced BYU-Idaho to join a new conference. Also, instead of having a symbiotic relationship with BYU by being a feeder school, BYU-Idaho would have been in direct competition with BYU further diluting the talent pool for both schools.

    The church heirarchy gave Holmoe the green light for BYU to become an independent or to join another conference and despite the jealous rants of whiney Utah fans who are obviously just spouting their own make-believe propaganda, BYU football is well positioned to weather the realignment storm.

  • flynn is the coolest Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:28 p.m.

    Texas has the LHN. OU is about to unveil their network. How do those fit in with the PAC12 plans? Texas will not surrender that lucrative deal, and I imagine OU would be in the same boat. Is it possible we're missing half the story here?

    My theory: OU and Texas want to go FB independent, and they want the Big 12 to stay together for the purpose of non-FB sports, so travel is minimal, and they can still play b-ball against KU and K-state. BYU would add some stability, but BYU doesn't want to abandon the WCC so quickly. BYU would also help both OU and UT fill out their late season schedules as FB independents. When the remaining B12 members got wind of this, they were upset, forcing OU and UT to seek out other conferences for their other sports- that being the PAC12.

    I'm not at all worried about BYU not getting into a super-conference. If they aren't invited, there will be so many class action lawsuits that the SCs will fall apart shortly after they form-or there will be rules allowing other teams to play in the playoff.

  • Starfarer Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:21 p.m.

    SLC BYU Fan

    Find me one shred of evidence that ANY of the GA's want BYU to drop football.

    I can't figure out where that drivel comes from. I have a couple of GA's in my family and they say unequivocally that no one EVER has said BYU should drop football.

    Stop hyping off a rumor you obviously WANT to be true, but is not in any way.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:16 p.m.

    Oklahoma won't make the move without Texas, the Pac-12 won't take the Longhorn Network as presently constituted (they have to share equally---Who in Austin wants Socialism?). If OU President & former U.S. Senator David Boren can't get Texas on board to do it, it's a dead deal (I don't see the Pac-12 willing to take anyone else but that 4 school package) and the Big-12 will limp along as the Big-9. In that scenario if they are in agrement to stay together and OU President Boren, Texas President William Powers Jr, along with Missouri President Brady Deaton solidly come out and appeal to BYU President Cecil Samuelson and the LDS Church hierarchy, then BYU football will have its calling and election made sure for the next quarter century and get their slot in a super-league as they evolve. So more scenarios are possible than a Pac-16 here and now, and what I outlined is the best possible for BYU.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:13 p.m.

    The best thing BYU could ever do to help its chances is win the big games like Boise State has. BSU continues to take average players and coach them into world-class athletes. BYU occasionally wins the big games and loses more of the ones it should win. We have yet to go to and win a BCS bowl. We don't play against many big name teams like we want more than anything else to beat them. Our guys look scared, distracted, nervous - as in Jake Heaps most of the game last week. Or Sorensen.

    I like Bronco, he's got great slogans and a cool head, but he doesn't have the know-how to teach our guys a higher level of play. He's got no intensity. And frankly, Doman is in way over his head - we've hired another untested coach to lead a division of the team he has no experience at.

    I've been watching and cheering my Cougs for 40+ years. I just don't see a huge change in intensity or preparation over the teams of 30 years ago. So we'll get an occasional big win and never make it to the big stage.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:06 p.m.

    Dear 1985 for Life. Jut the school Presidents. Many athletic directors would like to have BYU in their conference. It puts people in the stands and that means money.

    Brett remember the NCAA governing board is the President's of the Universities. They are self-serving first and then down the road they think about the NCAA.

    SLC BYU Fan why will you not state who those "authorities" are. Do you think they had no input into BYU becoming Independent and are clueless?

    Junkgeek, waiving the No Sunday Play will never happen. That would violate the 4th commandment, plus Nehemiah 10:31, which would be counter to the Church's stance on the sanctity of the Sabbath.

    In my opinion this Super Conference Idea is just another ploy to keep certain schools out of the BCS money games and ensure those BCS teams have the inside track to the money and the prestige.

    The non AQ conferences had to agree to the BCS to get any chance of getting invited to the BCS games. If they said no they would never get a chance regardless of record, hence no Utah, Boise or Hawaii going to a BCS bowl.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    Sept. 6, 2011 3:06 p.m.

    I think that BYU should stay put for now. I personally think that if superconferences started forming, at least one would pick up BYU. I think it highly unlikely that BYU gets left out-- they have too much to offer, despite the "burdens" that come along with BYU (no-Sunday rule, etc.).

    Go Big Blue!!!,

    "The y was a big factor in destroying both the MWC and the WAC last year."

    You're right, if BYU hadn't gone independence, then Utah would have never left! Oh, wait......

  • cougarfanmd Price, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:59 p.m.

    I'm concerned. The superconference thing is going to happen, conference commissioners and "chancellors" see the $$$. What could be better than creating a playoff system with BCS bowls going to superconference championships, semi-finals and a championship game? The scary part is, BYU doesn't fit anywhere. The PAC won't invite, neither will the Big 10. The Big 12 will be gone as will the Big East and the ACC and SEC will fill up on Big 12 and Big East leftovers. It makes more sense geographically. Our only hope would be for the Big 12 to be the superconference and for us to get an invite. Unlikely. Playing for exposure is nice and all and probably makes the BYU admin happy as can be, but how long can players play with nothing to play for? Players play for championships and chances at the NFL. Being locked out of the "big boys" game provides neither. Recruiting will suffer. If I were BYU I'd cuddle up to the ACC and pray for the best.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:45 p.m.

    Without TX, TT, OU and OSU; the Big 12 is just another mid-major. Big 12 will try to recreate itself, but Kansas and Kansas St will be looking for an opportunity. They could get it from the ACC because of their strong basketball programs. ISU and Baylor will have to take whatever they can.

    My guess - Big 12 will try to get Air Force, Colorado State, Houston, UTEP and SMU to keep the conference alive. They would love to get BYU, but without TX, TT, OU and OSU it makes no sense for BYU to leave independence.

  • Brett Marietta, GA
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:40 p.m.

    I find the NCAA's absence in the oversight of conferences interesting.

    On the one hand, the NCAA attempts to ensure that players are students first and are not paid as athletes.

    Yet, when it comes to actual money generated through their work that goes to the conferences and schools, the NCAA is absent.

    IF, and that is an IF, the NCAA cares about college football as a student athletic organization, why don't they create conferences themselves by objective determinations (location, size of school, traditional rivalries, etc.)? Then the conferences through championships could feed into a small playoff. Bowls for everyone else.

    The conferences and schools are in it for the money, they will never create a fair system for the players to compete for a championship.

    In the alternative, if the NCAA allows the conferences and schools to do whatever they want to maximize profit, they should stop the guise of a student-athletic organization and allow players to make money too.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:37 p.m.

    As I've said all along, BYU has 8 years to test the waters. The Big12 is completely unsure as a conference currently so I think BYU is wise to sit this round out. If they reform the Big12 with other, added schools, like Arkansas, then it might be worthwhile to consider.

    As for the National Championship debate, BYU is fine playing for a title but it's hardly the focus of the program. I loved seeing an ad on BYUtv for the upcoming fireside in the Austin TX Stake Center. That's what this is about, getting quality exposure from every angle for the Church. If a National Championship ends up being part of that then it's even more exposure. Good for BYU...ride this next 8 years highly!

  • Go Big Blue!!! Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:30 p.m.

    I think it is karma. The y was a big factor in destroying both the MWC and the WAC last year. Justice would be served if after the y joined the Big XII then all of the big boys left.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:29 p.m.

    Sorry to break your bubble Brad, but BYU is in trouble so far as maintaining a major college football presence on the landscape. Any western so called super-league will fall under the charter of the Pac-12, and this requires a unanimous vote of all school presidents, and the two Bay Area AAU kingpins dont want a religiously owned school that is light in doctoral level programs (only 25 the last count I made). Commissioner Larry Scott has reiterated the AAU affiliation desire of the league presidents. Texas is already an AAU member and Oklahoma like Utah is an aspiring institution. Taking Oklahoma State and Texas Tech are the political baggage of such a catch as Texas and Oklahoma.

    What people need to realize is that within the LDS Church hierarchy there are those who strongly feel BYU should curtail its athletic presence to preferably the WCC participation, and drop football entirely. We saw something happen similarly up in Rexburg, Idaho 11 years ago where very swiftly the church came out and without further deliberation ordered all intercollegiate athletics to be dismantled.

  • Still Blue after all these years Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    If Texas leaves the Big XII, there is no Big XII. So no need to join. But if Texas stays, then the Pac 12 has to decide if it wants OU and OSU without Texas. It may. But at least the Big XII stays intact with 8 teams. At that point, we should go if invited.

    But if the snowball of the four 16 team superconferences begins to roll, BYU will be left out because the Big 10 will look east (NY media market) and the Pac 12/16 is full. At that point, the future of football at the school becomes uncertain.

  • Veracity Morgan, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:25 p.m.

    Wow...what to do? what to do?

  • Father Zossima Cedar City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:22 p.m.

    Every once in a while, the RockMonster drops a LOL funny line: "Why join a conference that's in danger of collapsing? That's like scoring a discount ticket on the Hindenburg." That's why he's worth reading.

  • dansimp Layton, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:06 p.m.

    What a lot of people (Ute fans) fail to realize is the name of the game, super conference especially, is money. Petty hatred for a rival aside, Super conferences are about money, and a conference would know the same thing that ESPN knows, BYU means money. It doesn't matter if you think BYU is good, it doesn't matter if you like BYU, it doesn't matter if you respect BYU. None of that matters, the only thing that matters to the idea of Superconferences is money, and you can guarantee that BYU is a money maker, flat out, no debate. I wouldn't join the Big 12, unless there were major agreements by the big teams to stay, which I don't see happening, so I don't think BYU should join. Independence is working well so far, and if superconferences happen, BYU will get invited.

  • Cosmo-politan Karlstad, Sweden
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:03 p.m.

    Don't understand what BYU could lose by joining the Big 12. If it collapses, BYU is free to go back to independence again. No-lose situation.

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    Sept. 6, 2011 2:03 p.m.

    Finally, someone recognizes that BYU's leap into independence was more then a desperate act to keep up with the jones's.

    And to suggest BYU wait it out (good call) indicates that they are pretty strong and secure on the ESPN wagon.

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:57 p.m.

    Bigoted or not, the Pac-12 won't sniff BYU because of its inferior graduate and research academics. (Although, the fact that they might consider OkState and Texas Tech then invalidates that.)

    BYU is going to have to waive the no-Sunday play rule to get into any conference.

  • VA_Ute New Bern, NC
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:49 p.m.

    BYU will only get an invite if the Big 12 survives. If Texas et al leave, the leftovers, minus Baylor and perhaps Iowa State, will get invites to the Big East, SEC, or ACC.

    Thus it follows that if BYU gets an invite, they should say yes and thank their lucky stars that conference Armageddon was delayed long enough for them to get their ticket punched. If BYU does not get in when it happens, there will never again be talk of winning a national title. There will be no room for mid majors or independents when super-conferences rule the land.

  • Hoosier87 American Fork, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:47 p.m.

    As much as I enjoy the Cougars playing on ESPN 10 times this year, and as much as I enjoy the freedom that comes with Independence, I just can't see passing up the Big 12 if it comes.

    Now that's if the Big 12 is solid and stable, otherwise of course you don't go.

    I'm most excited to imagine BYU playing Kansas and other dominate basketball programs every year.

    I also really do NOT like the "super conference" idea. 16 teams, 8 in each division require each member to play 7 division games a year, throw in 3 patsies and that only leaves 2 non-conference rivalry games. If you're playing in a super conference, would you still want to risk playing a rivalry game - (USC - Notre Dame) - (BYU - Utah), no way. I for one think it's a terrible idea.

    I'm a Big 10 guy through and through and I know personally how much it would help the Cougars to get in a BCS conference, so I say jump immediately, as long as it's a stable Big 12...

  • 1984 for life Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:44 p.m.

    RSLJAZZBYUUTAH | 1:29 p.m. Sept. 6, 2011
    Syracuse, UT

    "the Pac has already agreed they are bigots." Wow. Did all the universities in the PAC take a vote and they "agreed" to this? So is everyone that goes to a PAC school a bigot or just the school presidents? Please enlighten us further.

  • Skippy West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:43 p.m.

    BYU will be eating alot of words if they choose anything but independence. The biggest word being, Exposure.

  • GoGetter Sandy, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:41 p.m.

    "BYU, who last week became one of the most intriguing teams in college football."

    Ha. How funny. Their QB also became a very intriguing player.

  • TwinsGuy Savage, MN
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:33 p.m.

    Notre Dame has proven that independence is a very difficult path to the national championship - or even a BCS bowl for that matter. You end up playing too difficult a schedule to finish unbeaten or with even 1 loss. Winning a conference or finishing second is much easier than going unbeaten as an independent.

    I fear the Big 12 will fall apart and BYU will not get in one of the super-conferences, who will surely vacuum up all the TV revenue and the BSC bowl spots.

    It doesn't look like BYU has any good options at this point...

    Sept. 6, 2011 1:29 p.m.

    I say BYU waits for the invite from the Big 10 when they go to super-conference, because there is no way they are going to be in the West regional with Utah, the Pac has already agreed they are bigots.

  • Madden Herriman, UT
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:17 p.m.

    You say "If the Big 12 folds, BYU will still have a good chance of being picked up by one of the proposed super-conferences."


    If BYU can get into a solid (even semi-solid) Big 12, they need to do it now! If the Big 12 folds, Provo is geographically impossible to add to any conference but the Pac, and they don't want BYU. And if the superconferences come to pass, I fear there will be little to no room for independents, you'll see ND join a super, but Army, Navy and BYU will likely struggle to schedule games and will eventually join lesser conferences. That's my take at least.

  • AZ Blue & Red Gilbert, AZ
    Sept. 6, 2011 1:13 p.m.


    If the Big 12 folds and OU, Texas, OSU and TT leave then it is just another WAC. Stay independent and ride the wave. If the Big 12 stays put and the leaving of teams is over then yes it might be a good path. But I would not jump until you know for sure. Look at Boise State they join MWC in time to see UTAH, BYU and TCU leave. So now they are in the same situation as UTAH BYU and TCU were in but all alone. No real tough team compete with.

    Hold on and see where it all shakes out. We are in no hurry.