Myths about religion and organ donation cause hesitation

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  • D Jamieson Raymond, AB
    Aug. 19, 2011 12:04 p.m.

    This LDS mother of 7 has encouraged all her children to carry a donor card. My youngest son did specify that I make sure he's dead first.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Aug. 8, 2011 10:45 p.m.

    @voice of reason

    I did miss understand your point my apologies. I agree it is a very complicated but also fascinating debate with no one "right" way to view it. Every answer leads to another cascade of questions. I have been involved in the transplant process and have had the opportunity a few times (for less then I wish) to be in on discussions about the medical ethics of recommending or not recommending patients for transplant. anyway thanks for the civil response i wish there was more opportunity on threads like this to discuss such things when you finally find some one willing to be civil.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 7, 2011 10:17 p.m.

    George, I think you misunderstood my comment. I said nothing about favoring such a system, but only that such a system would be possible- the only reason I said this was to move to what I believe was the real moral question involved... "can one morally justify placing conditions?", rather than "how could we"?

    If you understood that but and simply question the possibility of it, then it technically wouldn't be hard at all. People decide beforehand if they want to be resuscitated. They could before hand regarding certain criteria for an organ recipient.

    Again, I'm not arguing one way or the other... It's simply an interesting moral 'thought experiment' or moral problem, etc. I love philosophy and ethics, thus my interest.


    Person 1) a convinced rapist or murderer or did not get life imprisonment, has no family, and is now out of prison.

    Person 2) a father of 12 who's wife has never worked and losing him could do serious damage to the family.

    Now, I'm not saying anyone has more worth, or more right to life- I'm asking this, would you have a preference to receive a life-saving organ?

    Simply an interesting debate, that's all.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Aug. 7, 2011 5:33 p.m.

    @a voice of reason

    and exactly how would that system work?

  • George Bronx, NY
    Aug. 7, 2011 5:07 p.m.

    So maybe people that need transplants really just need to spend more time with a puppy out in nature Ann. So Ann I cannot seem to find you anywhere on DOPL is there any particular reason you have never got licensed? Maybe because your views are so far outside the mainstream of psychology?

  • George Bronx, NY
    Aug. 7, 2011 4:57 p.m.

    frankly your comment is complete nonsense and you know it. I worked in emgerency rooms for several years in Utah and New York. I can tell anyone that actually wants the truth that Organ donation is the farthest thing from the doctors mind when someone rolls into the ER. It is only after the person has died or after given instruction to stop interventions that donation ever enters into the conversation and it most often does not come from the doctor. kaindra is also right that there are strict rules around who is eligible for a transplant because they are so scarce and the doctors that preform the removal of the organs have no control or even say where those organs go. Doctors and hospitals receive no money for harvesting donations and such a blatant lie by the "Dr." should tell yo all you need to know about her comments. Such comments would be simply laughable if it where not for the severe consequences of spreading such serious lies.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 7, 2011 4:38 p.m.

    @ DrAnnBlakeTracy: There is no money in transplants - especially not for the ER doctor.

    Where did the son shoot himself? What were the real chances of recovery?

    And any parent dealing with what this father supposedly was dealing with who remains "calm and rational," doesn't deserve the title of father.

    If the doctor was concerned with organ donation, it was because the kid was dead.

    Sorry, but I call crap on your story.

  • DrAnnBlakeTracy Bountiful, Utah
    Aug. 6, 2011 11:37 p.m.

    I deal with families dealing with suicide and murder/suicide every day. So I run across families dealing with these situations regularly and have heard absolute horror stories. One father whose only son on Prozac shot himself in their basement. The father rushed to his side and rode to the hospital with him. Once there the doctor had organ donation on his mind (I have heard there is a lot of money in these transplants.) so instead of working to save this man's son he wanted to give him a shot to preserve the organs for donation. The father is a very calm and rational man, well educated, not easily upset and not active in any religion. His son was an amazing kid with great potential. But as the father begged him to work on saving his son's life the doctor threw this father against the wall telling him they had little time to save the organs for donation.

    Am I an organ donor? NO and NEVER will be! Why doesn't medicine learn to repair people's organs instead of replacing them or teach more about the laws of health so people learn how to preserve their organs?

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2011 9:27 p.m.

    A Scientist:

    You stated, :DN Editorial Staff, You seriously published the comment by A Voice of Reason, but not mine?"

    I don't know what you initially tried posting, but I mean you no disrespect; my comment was based entirely on reason. Whether you find what I said illogical or not, it was not rude to you, but merely offered a justification for the earlier comment from CougarKeith.


    "You cannot place conditions upon it anymore than you can place conditions on the gift of life you give to your own children."

    The logic you provided is that we have no choice. This is wrong. There could exist a system where people would decide who gets what beforehand.

    I just wanted to make that correction as I'm sure you meant to say that 'it wouldn't be moral to place conditions on the gift of life'.

    Is that a fair restatement of your view?

    If so, for an effective argument you would have to provide reason to show why birth and organ donation relate in a way that supports your conclusion. As I and probably others might believe they differ, it isn't convincing. I need the logic.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 6, 2011 7:42 p.m.

    @ Cougar Keith and A voice of Reason: Individuals who are actively using drugs or who are using alcohol to excess are not placed on organ donation lists. There are a great many requirements that must be met in order for someone to be eligible to be an organ recipient.

    Additionally, great care is made to ensure that the life of the organ donor is protected. Organs are not harvested until the donor has been declared dead and the life saving interventions are not stopped until there is no chance of recovery or until the family (or an advance directive) says no more interventions should occur.

    As for extreme risks, that would depend on how you define "extreme risk" and how much you think accepting an organ places a person under the control of others. Should an organ recipient be prohibited from skiing or snowboarding? Should they be prohibited from joining the military? Should they have to ask the family of the donor for permission for engaging in activities that bear a level of risk? How do we decide what that level of risk is?

    Organ donation is a gift. You cannot set requirements for the recipient.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Aug. 6, 2011 5:33 p.m.

    DN Editorial Staff,

    You seriously published the comment by A Voice of Reason, but not mine?

    I try again:

    To A Voice...

    The more profound point is this: You can try to judge in advance as to what kind of person should get your organs, but wisdom suggests you should instead deeply consider what kind of poor wretch is using those organs now, and try to make that person a more worthy one.

    Once you die and give the gift, it is a free gift. You cannot place conditions upon it anymore than you can place conditions on the gift of life you give to your own children.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2011 5:04 p.m.

    A Scientist:

    Should an organ go to someone who likes to take extreme risks with their life for pleasure? If the person got well and went out and was reckless with their life... then no, most people wouldn't give up their organ for them.

    I am educated and I have made a valid point as to why his points are with considering. How the organ will be used isn't invalidated because it revolves around human life.

    Each time someone drinks they impair their liver more and more. Would you give your liver to an addicted alcoholic?

    I don't support suicide or intentional self infliction- but whether one is obligated to prevent or correct their actions is certainly questionable. I'm not saying it's right or wrong... only that CougerKeiths point was indeed valid.

    I'd even go so far as to appropriately phrase it like this:

    "Contrary to popular belief; an educated person never stops asking questions, only the fool thinks they already have the answers."

    The more we learn, the more we realize we know nothing. - Socrates, Einstein, and many other intelligent figures have said the same thing. I agree with them.

  • Lbone Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2011 11:34 a.m.

    This confusion over what a religion permits and does not permit is unfortunate. I donated a kidney and it is one of one of the most meaningful things I've done in my life.

    Hundreds of people die needlessly awaiting an organ transplant. We should play up organ donation big time!

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Aug. 6, 2011 8:31 a.m.


    I can't see why you want your organs to go to an educated person. Your comments reveal those organs haven't been used by an educated person yet.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 5, 2011 10:51 p.m.

    I'm all for encouraging it but personal beliefs and decisions need to be respected and we hardly see enough emphasis on this.

    I've seen more than one person criticized very openly for this very personal decision, because their ID showed it and someone else took notice.

    How would an article would have fared had it been written with a disfavor for organ donation? I think most people would have been outraged and this comment section would be much longer. As much as we like to promote what we believe... Sometimes I wish we also promoted civility even more.

    Just some food for thought...

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Aug. 5, 2011 9:35 p.m.

    I'm done with it. Take everything that's useful and burn the rest.

  • CougarKeith Roy, UT
    Aug. 5, 2011 4:51 p.m.

    My personal decision is it's ok, I mean it gives your body, a temple an oportunity to continue to serve! I just don't know that I would want a druggie or alcoholic seeing with my eyes to carry on their BAD HABBITS and Social degridation upon society. That would be my biggest fear! I also worry if my heart is needed and there isn't much chance to save me, but some, my death might be "Encouraged" you might say to save another's life??? These things concern me greatly! As far as saving someone of good character, of good repore of high education, a GREAT MOTHER, a blue collar dad, a child, a "Family Person" of good moral conduct, I am emphatically in favor of using my organs to help them! I would even be happy to donate my organs to someone who is not of good repore if they would feel they have a second chance at life and might repent and change their ways. Am I in favor of their death if they would not repent? Of course not, but I wouldn't want to aid in their self destruction either! It can be a tough decision!