The Vanka: I am referring to the revelation that is in D&C. It was given to
Joesph three years before it was actually written and practiced. Emma didn't
agree with polygamy and so she told Jospeh that she didn't want to know about
his marriages. She did however know about all of the marriages. Oh and Vanka I
study my history everyday of my life so I do know what I am talking about.
snowman,Are you referring to the 1831 Polygamy Revelation transcript
W.W.Phelps made at the request of Joseph Smith, wherein it was revealed to
Joseph Smith:"[I]t is [Jesus Christ's] will, that in time, ye
should take unto you wives of the Lamanites and Nephites [i.e., Native
Americans], that their posterity may become white, delightsome, and Just, for
even now their females are more virtuous than the gentiles."(Compare 2Nephi30:56 in the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon).Is
that the revelation you are referring to?No, sorry. Emma was not
kept in the loop about Joseph's "marriages" to Fanny Alger or several
others until many years later.Study your history. If you don't find
it as off-putting as the rest of the world, there is something seriously wrong
with your moral compass.
Vanka: nothing was kept from Emma. The revelation was published 3 years after
Joseph received it.
no fit in SG | 12:32 p.m. Aug. 5, 2011 St.George, UtahIt was ok back
then.***With all due respect, no it wasn't.
It is not true that there were no laws on the books against plural marriages in
Joseph Smith's day. Please read Richard Bushman's biography of Joseph Smith for
details.Few would disagree that If God commands it, you must do
it.But who can verify that God commanded something?How
do you know God told Joseph Smith to "marry" Fanny Alger? To keep it
secret from Emma? 10 years prior to official revelation being published (see
Richard Bushman, p.323-327 for details)?How can you say that God
really commanded Joseph to engage in polygamy, but God did NOT command Warren
Jeffs or Brian David Mitchell? They all claimed God told them to do what they
did. Who are you to say otherwise?Everybody agrees we should obey
God's commandments. The trouble is, God seems to always be a no show when we are
looking for him to publicly verify that he gave this or that commandment to this
or that person.It seems we are always given God's word by the very
people who stand to benefit from the commandments being given, not God
himself!Accept all who claim to speak for God, or reject them all.
I want to clear one thing. The LDS church did not practice unrighteous dominion
of underage girls in the act of polygamy. In the present, past, and will not in
the future. With Jeffs saying this is the gospel. He is wrong. His actions
are not a part of the gospel.
About darn time! And now to lock him up with fellow felons, wonder how long
he'll survive been the aggression in directed at him?
@LOL: "God had nothing to do whatsoever with the male-dominated and
power-crazed idea of polygamy."Then Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
Moses, etc., were not God's prophets? Is that your point? And, of course it is
male-dominated. If it were female-dominated (your only other option) it would be
polyandry."This is clearly Man's self-centered doing."Do you see any female Prophets/Apostles in the Christian Bible?-----------------------@LValfre: "They keep denying my
comments, but can someone please explain to me why everyone's so angry with
Warren Jeffs and yet Joseph Smith had a wife who was 14 years old?"There were no laws on the books about marrying 14 year-olds back in the
day such as there is now. Further, life expectancy was significantly shorter.
People married younger.But look at us now. We have laws on the books
that permit men/men and women/women marriages. The Smith, Jeffs, et.al., conduct
might seem odd, but by contrast today's permitted marriage arrangements look
downright asinine. Go figure.
This has more to do with perversion than religion. He uses religion to justify
actions. You have to know that something is wrong when someone says that if any
other person were to do this, it would be wrong but when serivicing me, it is
doing god's work.Fundamentally I have no problem with plural
marriage, if you can make it work. Where I do have a problem is when the men are
marrying girls that are first minors, and second less than half their age. And
what do you do with 87 wives? This is creating a personal brothel. If he were
marrying women close to his own age, I'd say leave him be. But a 40 year or
more, old man marrying a minor is just wrong.He will be going places
in the next life, I just don't think it will be where he thinks.
I wonder the same thing LValfre asks. Why does DN continue to deny comments
about Joseph Smith's plural wives that are factual? Is the DN joining forces
with the Mormon Defense League to suppress all negative about the Church and its
history, all in the name of "defending the faith"?That has
been tried before. It always backfires.Warren Jeffs considers
himself a Prophet and heir to Joseph Smith, Jr. To understand Jeffs, you must
understand the tradition of polygamy dating back to Joseph Smith.Brian David Mitchell was following the same tradition when he abducted 14 year
old Elizabeth Smart.If you want the truth, look on Familysearch for
Helen Mar Kimball. She "married" (spiritually) Joseph Smith in May,
1843. She was 14 years old.Richard Bushman's biography of Joseph
Smith confirms that Fanny Alger was also secretly "spiritually
married" (undocumented) to Joseph Smith when Fanny was a teenage servant
(and "adopted daughter") in the home of Joseph and Emma Smith.Fanny was only 16. Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated for calling it
"a dirty, nasty, filthy affair...", and Emma abruptly kicked Fanny out
of the house.
You're joking right? Marrying 14 year olds was okay 100 years ago but now it's
not? As if women matured faster then? Please. Please. I love how LDS justify
things ... no rationale once oh ever sometimes.
It was ok back then.
They keep denying my comments, but can someone please explain to me why
everyone's so angry with Warren Jeffs and yet Joseph Smith had a wife who was 14
"Police had raided the group's remote West Texas ranch in April 2008,
finding women dressed in frontier-style dresses and hairdos from the 19th
century...."This type of dress and hair style is clearly
unacceptable and should be rejected. Our Constitution's founding fathers (who
sometimes wore powdered wigs) are probably turning over in their graves."As the sentencing phase began, prosecutors told jurors they will
present evidence that Jeffs had 78 wives, in addition to his legal
spouse..."I hear tell of places such as California and
elsewhere where they've had at least that many 'wives.' 'Cept they're not called
wives... Yes, and in many cases, in addition to their legal wives/husbands.
Sometimes elected officials have similar situations."Several
minutes of heavy breathing followed."This is despicable
conduct! We cannot allow heavy breathing. Clearly a violation of state law and
the US Constitution. Jeffs shoulda knowed better. He and his associates who
conducted heavy breathing should be severely reprimanded.And now, to
show how civilized we are, we've decided in many cases, to allow people of the
same sex to not only conduct heavy breathing but also marry and engage in
Sorry, SSMD. God had nothing to do whatsoever with the male-dominated and
power-crazed idea of polygamy. This is clearly Man's self-centered doing.
sharrona:Polygamy clearly was permitted by God under certain circumstances
in the OT (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, etc.)David and Solomon's polygamy, in
many cases, was not authorized and, as you said in the case of Solomon, he did
sin.Monogamy is the default position in Christianity, but in certain times
and places polygamy was authorized.
What? Are you saying a married man cannot have a child... even though his wife
is 15? Are you saying he had no marriage becasue he had no license issued by the
state? Licenses are not needed in some cases to have a recognized marriage...
so-called "common law marriage."Further, this guy may get
off on appeal. The raiders of the compound did not have a search warrant,
required by the US Constitution. Jeffs may come off the smarter as he might have
most of the evidence tossed on appeal.
They're blocking me every time for whatever reason. Joseph Smith was married to
a 14 year old girl. That's all, please comment. Apparently this is a touchy
topic i shouldn't bring up so i'll leave it at that.
Historical point - While Joseph Smith did have multiple wives, he married most
if not all to give support to them after there were difficult circumstances
involving the loss of husbands and the need for support of existing children.
Many were sealed to him after his death, including my direct grandmother Amanda
Barnes Smith, there are no records showing he visited any of them like Jeffs did
with his "wives". Emma is the only wife by who had his children. This
can be verified by the Joseph Smith family organization.Jeffs has
obviously forgotten the 13th Article of Faith - We believe in obeying the Law!
Can someone help me. I don't understand. We consider what Warren Jeffs did as
appalling and disgusting. Is it true that Joseph Smith also married a few 14
year old girls and we consider that to be good? Someone help me with the
difference.Joseph Smith married young girls because God commanded
him too and Warren Jeffs claimed he did too so why is Warren Jeffs a sick man
and Joseph Smith a hero?Warren Jeffs was guilty of breaking the law
of the land. In many cases Joseph Smith also broke the law of the land. Should
Joseph Smith not be held to the same standard? Following a man that
claims to follow God is good. Following a different man that claims to follow
God is bad?Wasn't Warren Jeffs following the same scriptures that we
follow and that Joseph Smith taught from?
J-TX:All of my non-LDS friends recognize the vast difference between the
mormonism of the LDS Church and that of Warren Jeffs?The FLDS church,Their
prophet(JS) had 34 wives from the ages of fourteen to fifty-six years old and
eleven of the women were married to other men at the same time.That
is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife(not wives),
and they become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24) Man was warned in the O.T. No
polygamy. Solomon sin, his wives led to the dividing and the destruction of
Israel.Paul explains the consequences in Titus 1:5,6 appoint Elders in every
town as I directed you if anyone is above reproach, the husband of ONE wife, and
his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or
insubordination.Intolerance: "As we have therefore opportunity,
let us do good unto all, especially unto them who are of the household of faith
(pale of Christianity)." (Galatians 6:10) Of course, one must keep in mind
that tolerance is not necessarily agreement,or even acceptance of Mormonism
Jeff's testimony was quotes from the Book of Mormon. Live with it. He was only
acting as any self-appointed "prophet" would act.It's all about
absolute power and absolute patriarchy.Methinks a new revelation is in
order making it a tad easier for Huntsman and Romney to answer the questions
that are sure to come from the media sooner or later about what President
Hinckley called: "A peculiar people."
furry: "Prove to me that Saddam Hussein had WMD in 2003 when Bush invaded
Iraq, and you might have a point BUT the incident you cite happened years before
Bush's invasion. I would point out to you that the investigators in 2003 found
no WMDs, and Bush cut short their search and invaded before his excuse for the
invasion was totally disproved."--------------------------Can
you explain why 450 tons of yellowcake uranium were found in Iraq?How
could Bush cut short a UN team?Saddam admitted to FBI interrogators that
he behaved so that the world, especially Iran, would think he had WMDs.Given Saddam's prior use of WMDs and his behavior, a prudent leader would
assume he had them, if lacking confirmation.Do you similarly blame the
senators who authorized combat, all of whom had access to the available intell?
There are only two difference between the flds and the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latterday Saints, and those differences are the multiple marriages and the
marrying of young girls to older men.
Not only has he caused mental anguish to young girls for rape, but what about
the excommunication of the "Lost Boys" that were exiled for doing
little or nothing wrong, so the older men would not have to compete with the
@timpClimber:"The State (Utah) had no valid cause to make the
raid the Texas authorities did..."The State of Texas had no
warrant for the raid."They got the tapes and separated the
children from parents and got DNA samples."All of which was
illegal and a violation of Constitutional rights."Glad he will
have a hard time repeating his crimes."The real criminal here
is Texas for violating the rights of its citizens.
All of the parents who gave up their young daughters to be married to any of
these pedofiles in this "church" should also be prosecuted for child
endangerment and for accessories to rape.
Home Town USA, UTThere is no justifiable defense for his kind of
behavior, in the least degree of allowance. He is wasting the courts valuable
time and government's money. Religious freedoms. . . no way! *Where
were his victims and why did they not testify for the prosecution?=========================*They were forced back to the commune.
They would be outcasts if they testified.You know how that works
Some of you might think that Texas' acting on the 911 call was due to some
cultural predisposition against the LDS Church. Let me tell you, there is no
truth to that. Texas acted on a tip about child abuse, plain and simple. And
the State has done a great job with this case. Git 'er done!The LDS
Church enjoys a stellar reputation in Texas. While there are still
Fundamentalists, mostly Baptists and Methodists, who believe / preach that we
are not Christian, in the schools, in government and in our neighborhoods we are
respected and liked. Mormons work alongside their neighbors doing service,
volunteer work, and in the private and public sectors. Our kids are recognized
for high morals and work ethic. A teacher friend of mine told me she overheard
their guidance counsellor talking with a student who wanted to crack the top 10
in his class. The counsellor said, "If you're not Asian or Mormon, you
will have a tough time with that goal."All of my non-LDS
friends recognize the vast difference between the mormonism of the LDS Church
and that of Warren Jeffs.
To LOL:"Before Romney or Huntsman gets elected and pardons them
all." ---------------It was interesting to see you
slip this in at the end of your posting. But I find it hard to believe that
either Romney or Huntsman would condone the actions of Warren Jeffs.
To nottyou | 5:58 p.m. Aug. 4, 2011 Riverton, UT To Pagan: Your
comments involving George W. Bush have little to do with this article, but I
can't let you get away with your false accusation. Google the WMD mass murders
that Saddam Hussein committed. It is documented. You can see the pictures. He
had WMDs and he had used them on his own people. There was no reason to conclude
that he didn't still have those WMDs. Google it.-----------------------Prove to me that Saddam Hussein had WMD in
2003 when Bush invaded Iraq, and you might have a point BUT the incident you
cite happened years before Bush's invasion. I would point out to you that the
investigators in 2003 found no WMDs, and Bush cut short their search and invaded
before his excuse for the invasion was totally disproved.
Texas allows gets it done. Thanks ya'll
I'm so glad he got this punishment it sets the bar and example to all out there
no matter religion there are limitations to a child being abused like that.
Praise God (of the bible) for this rightful judgement.
Nearly everything the government told us to justify the raid on the FLDS was a
lie and nearly everything the press reported was a lie how can we so quickly
condemn this man. I cannot condemn him. I know how often evidence is
falsified. I know how the press reports prejudiced us against him and his
people. I live in the NYC area and I can tell you most of what you hear about
911 is not true. We who lived through it know what happened.
You may have noticed that Associated Press writer Wiil Weissert tied
"mainstream Mormonism" twice into his article. Makes the Mormon Church
look like they are part of the blame.Reporters know how to lead public
opinion for future publication.
I think there is some confusion here. Religious freedm is for all genders, male
and female. Where was the freedom for these girls? How can this be considered
any different than the child brides in the Middle East? To me it is clear, that
there are many more pediphiles out there, than people are willing to admit to.
Girls are not property, as Jeffs said they are, and sexual relations with a
minor is rape. Pediphiles are criminals, who need to be punished severely.
During my residency, a fellow resident of mine was from Alabama. He and his wife
were married at 15. No pregnancy, no cult (Baptist). Apparently it wasnt
anything strange to them or the community and happens all the time. How does
this happen and how is this legal as well?
The State of Utah did a good job with the evidence they had. The State had no
valid cause to make the raid the Texas authorities did (No call for help even if
phony). But the Utah case alerted Texas authorities to what might be going on.
They got the tapes and separated the children from parents and got DNA samples.
Also there is not a big support group for polygamy views in Texas. And they
didn't have to hunt for Jeffs like Utah did, we handed him over for trial. Glad
he will have a hard time repeating his crimes.
Warren's atomic defense should have wowed the jury. What were they thinking?
Do I remember correctly? The trial took place at the Tom Green Courthouse in San
Angelo, TX. Wasn't Tom Green the name of a polygamist from Juab County, UT, who
was sent to prison?
This is quite interesting to read all the stone throwing comments here. Yes he
was found guilty of a really ugly crime. I'm glad justice will be served. I'm
glad he won't be in a position to harm any more young girls. But
there but for the grace of God go any of us. We may not be committing federal
crimes, but would anyone want your life to be an open book? How would it feel to
have tapes of your worst moments played in a public court? What if Jeffs in his
most private and sincere heart of hearts believes he was doing the right thing?
If that's the case I do feel sorry for him. He was truly deluded and that led
him to where he is. at thin point he deserves, if nothing else, our compassion
rather than our scorn. He's getting what he deserves by losing his freedom. Now
leave him alone. Didn't Jesus say, "Go and sin no more"?
We all should learn from this and go do something helpful for someone else
rather than further beating up this poor misguided and deluded man. Truly. Are
we positive we're any better than he is?
The guy got EXACTLY what he deserves. I hope the other FLDS child molesters and
women abusers get the same.
I just wish he had put a deadline on God's vengeance on the judge and the others
in court. THen we could scorn him again.I wonder how his disciples
are taking this?
Finally someone had the courage to stand up for the children. Maybe Utah will
follow the example, at least I hope.
In another time and place, his actions may have been acceptable. But in the
here and now, he's guilty and will do time. Too bad he didn't live 150+ years
ago when he could have got away with it.
Jeffs chose his actions and his actions violated the law of the land; True
religion complies with the laws of a nation. I agree with the comment on the
Millstone. Plus all your threatening of the court system and God bringing
judgment upon them, they will get their judgement for their own mistakes, as
will you. Don't think being a self proclaimed prophet will excuse you from God's
judgement. Right or wrong He will be the one to decide everyone's eternal fate.
I feel the restoration will give you back exactly what you put out.
I hope God can show as much mercy as He can, but He cannot deny justice when it
has its claim.
Freedom of religion does not mean freedom to break the law!It is particularly
galling to see these self centered ego maniacs use religion to justify their own
desires. Ultimately, Warren Jeffs is nothing more than a "housebroken"
Bryan David Mitchell!
Instead of protecting the young, he want to have sex with them if they are girls
or ban them from the community if they are boys. Gee, he sure is doing the will
of some god. Could it be himself?
I'm sure he will appeal based in ineffective defense counsel.
To Pagan: Your comments involving George W. Bush have little to do with this
article, but I can't let you get away with your false accusation. Google the
WMD mass murders that Saddam Hussein committed. It is documented. You can see
the pictures. He had WMDs and he had used them on his own people. There was no
reason to conclude that he didn't still have those WMDs. Google it.
Queue the requisite comment about Joseph Smith. Then queue the response that
Smith lived in the 1800s while Jeffs lives in 2011. I think we all
know the polygamist history of Mormonism. It's all out there to read and
evaluate. Connecting Warren Jeffs with Joseph Smith is like connecting Rod
Blagojovich to Thomas Jefferson.
I'll bet it was one of the quickest jury verdicts of all time.
Judge,"Jury, you are now excused to deliberate." Jury leaves.
Forman, "let's vote." Rest of Jury, "ok." Vote to convict.
Forman, "we are through your honor may we come back?" Court
re-convenes. Judge, "The forman will now read the verdict. Forman,
"on all counts guilty." Judge, "thank you for your work. Jury
is excused." Time lapse? About 10 minutes.
Just Rape, nothing more, nothing less. I do not care what his belief
system was/is what her did was just Rape.I am happy the Hoax call
was made. (by the way it you respond to a Call, Arrest People and file charges
and obtain convictions and put people in Jail in what we would be 23/7 lock down
for life. what part of that is a Hoax)?Now years and Millions later
Jeffs is going to Jail for a long long time in Texas. Hope is that Texas will
keep him Locked Up Tight. No need to put him in Court any where else.You cannot Rape Kids in the name of Religion and claim you rights are being
violated. I do not care if oyur Church Believes that Abuse of
Females is not a Crime. It is a Crime. Good for the Great State of
Now several polygamous groups have denounced the actions of Jeffs in Salt Lake
today, supporting the prosecution of child abuse....isn't polygamy child abuse?
running kiddie mill with several sister wives...
That was fast, is it correct, and what shall the sentence be?
Justice is served. My he get what is coming to him during the sentencing and in
Pagan's comments dragging politics and Iraq into this post are off topic.
I cannot comprehend how someone can justify raping a 12 & 15 year old girl
& saying it was a spiritual experience for them.....Warren Jeffs is one sick
man! How can 10,000 people be brainwashed by these perverts? Any religion that
allows children to be molested & raped has major problems! Where are the
mothers & women of these young girls? How in the world can they accept this
type of behavior??? I think the women of these young girls should be arrested
& have their day in court too! They are just as much to blame as the men.
Okay my previous comment was denied so let me retry. JS had a wife that was 14
... so .... who's wrong here?
Perhaps its time to conduct raids and round up the multitudes of those who are
doing the same thing (and being ignored)right here in Utah. Before Romney
or Huntsman gets elected and pardons them all.
Pagan, you stated:"I cannot stress it enough.A 12
year old. Girl."I couldn't agree more. Once I read "I
cannot stress" I knew where you were going and I agree! I'll add one point
though.A 12 year old (period) Girl (period) - Using RELIGION!? to
have people think they need it to be saved, or whatever reason you gave
them...It disturbs me to my very core.
For those confused, the LDS church excommunicated the apostates that formed the
FLDS church, many many many many years ago. All people are encouraged to read
the Book of Mormon, irrespective of their religious beliefs.
Happy about that decision.
nofitinSG,Do you want to tell us a third time?
It is time to prosecute the women involved. We should all write our state
representatives to let them know that we want everyone involved in abuse against
children to be held accountable. No "religion" should have the freedom
to molest children. I believe in freeom of religion but Warren Jeffs is not a
religious leader. He is a common criminal.
@ PaganWhere are you coming from? President George W. Bush has
nothing to do with the Warren Jeffs case. You are irrelevant, sir. Just for
the record, everyone on both sides of the aisle agreed about the weapons
issue.Warren Jeffs needs to be stamped on like the weazel and bedbug
he is. His leadership and all the males in that organization practising his
beliefs should be held accountable as well. This is a mess that needs to be
cleaned up once and for all. I'm sure there are other groups out there that
need to be handled as well. This is not about religious freedom. He's going to
be taken care of in the penal system. He is a scumbag of the first order.
The man had messed up and got caught. So he will pay his dues and good ridense.
Sooner or later poetic justice will be served. Any man that acts like this
thinking he's holier than thou will get knocked down. No man has the right to do
what he has been convicted of doing and gets away with it.Children are our most
precious life that needs protection from creeps like Jeffs.I hope Jeffs likes
the accomondations in Texas.The inmates will have a new playmate.
@Johnny Triumph "I genuinly (sic)feel badly for this man. He's
made terrible mistakes,"Child rape is a felony, it is never a
If consenting adults want to engage in "spiritual" relationships with
each other, I do not care. They need to leave the kids alone. Jeffs and some of
his ilk are too out of control to leave the children alone. He belongs in prison
for the rest of his life, as does anyone else in his cult who practices child
rape under the guise of religion.
Good verdict -- justice was done. Now I hope he gets life in prison (no
parole), and gets to serve it out in the general prison population.
That didn't take long.
Igualmente -That was a rather interesting line. I read it the same
way as you did the first time - 'I am at peace.' However, that's not what he
said. He said 'I am peace.' The difference, although only one word, is
staggering. If the news article is correct, and Jeffs actually did say 'I am
peace', he's equating himself with Christ.Here's hoping a swift
verdict is returned and that the girls will get the counseling they need (which
they probably won't).
Instead of predicting death and plague on the judge and those doing their duty,
Jeffs should start thinking about what a millstone feels like. There was no
mistake on his part, only sin and crimes that deserve the harshest punishment.
This verdict shouldn't take the jury more than an hour to find this rapist
The things said on the audio transcript show the inhumane debauchery of this man
as he seeks to justify this child rape as some sort of religious rite. He entered an entire book of scripture as evidence for his cause. And
his non-existent closing argument this morning to stand quiet for 30 minutes,
only uttering a muffled "I am at peace".Send him away for
119 years. Don't mess with Texas.I'm afraid there will be no way to
de-program all the helpless folks he has beguiled out on that ranch.
@Johnny TriumphReally? You feel badly for Warren Jeffs? Really?
I'm stunned. The man took at least one 15 year old and one 12 year
old as wives. I guess he's just a poor victim, right? He's a
pedophile who exercises unrighteous dominion over his subjects. He's as much a
victim as Jim Jones.
'He's made terrible mistakes, possibly propagated by his parents and their
parents.' - Article I disagree. 'The 55-year-old head of
the Fundamentalist LDS Church is accused of assaulting two underage girls he had
taken as so-called spiritual wives.' - Article This man is OVER 5
decades old! At what point is he supposed to take responsibility...
...for having sex with a 12 year old girl? I hate the phrase
'mistakes'. It implies forgivness. This is the part where a person might be
found GUILTY. Forgiveness can come LATER. Not now. 'Mistakes were
made' - favorite phrase linked to George W. Bush. "The Iraqi
regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is
seeking nuclear weapons.' - George W. Bush - Ohio Speech 10/7/2002 Result: *U.S. Military deaths in Iraq war at 4,473 AP
Published by the DSNews 08/02/2011 I cannot stress it enough. A 12 year old. Girl. If found guilty...? Throw
the book at him.
I genuinly feel badly for this man. He's made terrible mistakes, possibly
propagated by his parents and their parents.
Its too bad that the State of Utah didn't do its job right the first time here.
Now many people are going to be quite confused about his relationship with
Mormons -- they are even reading from the Book of Mormon in this trial. Good
luck on clearing up this confusion.
More to come...The word is that the mothers of the victims are next to
face judge and jury.Maybe it is time to find the grandmothers, as well.
There is no justifiable defense for his kind of behavior, in the least degree of
allowance. He is wasting the courts valuable time and government's money.
Religious freedoms. . . no way! Where were his victims and why did they not
testify for the prosecution?