High treason

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  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    July 24, 2011 12:47 p.m.

    How nice it is that the Dnews Editorial staff writes a lame opinion piece and then turns around and censors those who don't agree with it.

    Nice that the Dnews only lets one side of the story on the threads! You guys must be proud of yourselves for all the censoring you do!!

    The Dnews will continue to all it can to enhance Utah as a sanctuary state. HB116 is unconstitutional. The legislators even admitted it. So how was it passed?

    Traitor might not be correct word but it comes close. What would the Dnews editorial staff call a legislature that passes an illegal bill?

    Btw, put a name on your editorials. Let's see who is really writing this tripe!

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    July 24, 2011 12:55 a.m.

    The Deseret News correctly points out that Beckham addressed his "traitor" comment to the creators of HB116 (actual word Beckham used was "drafters). Why then does the News imply, in its snide, mocking line -- "That's a lot of traitors" -- that Beckham was referring not only to the drafters of HB116, but to all of its supposed supporters?

    What's more, the Deseret News is choosing only one aspect of the definition of the term "traitor" as found in standard American-English dictionaries. Based on the complete definition of the term, and on what the "drafters" of HB116 have in fact done, Brandon's opinion was thoughtful and actually is quite valid.

    In other words, the Deseret News isn't being altogether honest and truthful. Worse, it is attempting to stifle an opinion that it doesn't like in the name of "civility." There is nothing more hypocritical than attempting to assassinate someone's character based on the pretext that that person has done so. There is nothing more uncivil than telling a man he has no right to speak his considered opinion. That is what the Deseret News has done with its editorial.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    July 23, 2011 12:53 p.m.

    Traitors may have been a little over the top, and I see that Mr. Beckham has apologized publicly for his use of the word. Maybe subversive would have been a better term for those that favor open borders and violation of our immigration laws. In the 1930s the subversive Nazi 5th column infiltrated France and other European countries in preparation for the invasion.

    By passing HB116 the Utah Legislature has given its support to the open border globalists and shown a disregard for our immigration laws. All of this in order to keep cheap labor illegal alien workers available in order to depress wages in Utah for the unskilled, and especially the working poor.

    If the unskilled illegal foreign workers were to leave Utah, employers would have had to pay a small increase in wages which would allow unskilled workers to help pay for college, and others would be able to leave the welfare rolls. Traitors, no, but certainly not supportive of the Utah unskilled workers.

    There is very little respect for those in Utah that do manual or menial labor, and that includes even the illegal foreign workers.

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 23, 2011 9:18 a.m.

    Double negative typo: (delete the not)

    When will the Deseret News quit saying the 4 bills passed this year that are part of the "Utah solution" are in harmony with, or based on the Utah Compact?

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 23, 2011 9:16 a.m.

    When will the Deseret News quit saying the 4 bills passed this year that are part of the "Utah solution" are not in harmony with, or based on the Utah Compact?

    1. The 4 immigration bills dubbed the Utah solution are constitutional. The US has power over naturalization/citizenship, not immigration. Prior to case law beginning in 1893, Immigration was and is a State Power. The constitution wasn't changed.

    2. The Utah Compact states "Immigration is a federal policy issue between the U.S. government and other countries not Utah and other countries." So the 4 bills violate The Utah Compact, not the constitution.

    3. There are 4 bills. One that provides enforcement HB 497, one that provides for migrant workers HB 466, one that provides sponsoring HB 469, and one that provides a guest worker permit HB 116.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    July 23, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    Tom, you are exactly right. Can't have it both ways.

  • countryscotty Orem, ut
    July 23, 2011 7:47 a.m.

    Funny how conservatives can be called every name in the book BUT one conservative calls out our Legislators in the heat of the moment, speaking out against a bad bill that puts people that aren't even supposed to be here above the legal residents, traitors, and you get this type of article from Deseret news. I am LDS and do not appreciate how DN constantly acts as if this HB116 legislation is directly for God. Please stop the attack on those that support upholding the laws.

    Mr. Beckham, many of us know your position and appreciate your work to repeal this awful legislation and will continue to support you. Funny how the DN has said nothing of your very public apology for the word used.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2011 11:17 p.m.

    There is no doubt about where beckham stands on the issue of illegal immigration...he wants enforcement,

    While our so called conservative leges voted for amnesty, and chose to listen to a few Mormon lobbyists at the expense of the people they represent........

    The church has been wrong before and they're wrong now......let's send the RINO's packing

  • Tom Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 22, 2011 4:55 p.m.

    This comes of the same Spirit, the same distortion of the facts, and often the same or similar sources as those who say we need to be fearful of electing an individual who is a Mormon as President, because of his religious beliefs.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2011 1:45 p.m.

    "This whole "civility" movement is nothing more than a continuation of the radical liberal scam to divert attention from the merits of the issues, which liberals know is their weak point -- they invariably lose on the issues"

    Absolutely not. Liberals lose on the issues? Not for a second. Do you really believe that just because you, an anonymous poster on a comment board, make this claim, do you really believe that just merely making this claim, that it makes it true?

    Liberals consistently, and easily, on these threads, out argue conservatives using logic and sound arguments. Liberals do it here, they also do it on a local level and a federal level.

    Now should you believe me just because I say so? No, of course not.

    But look at the arguments, and try to leave ideology aside, and notice who most consistently addresses the issues with logic and knowledge, and with out deflecting, spinning, and side stepping the issue.

    For instance, look at the debt ceiling issue. Listen to the arguments on this issue. Notice how absolutely bizare the arguments of the extreme conservatives are on this issue. Notice how soundly they are refuted.

  • Lead Farmer OREM, UT
    July 22, 2011 1:33 p.m.

    Beckham has marginalized himself among Republicans (both those who agree and disagree with him on HB 116) countless times already. He's a loose cannon. What this article doesn't say is that out of the three candidates running for the Utah state GOP vice chair position last month, Beckham came in a distant third with less than 10% of the vote. So despite well over half the delegates voting to pass a resolution asking Republicans in the state legislature to overturn HB 116, less than 10% of all delegates chose to actually vote for the most vocal person in the state calling for the repeal. That ought to tell you everything about Beckham's, ahem, "character." He's the Curt Bramble of the anti-Bramble crowd.

  • curious george Orem, UT
    July 22, 2011 1:25 p.m.

    To "Pete In Texas",
    I disagree with Mr. Beckham's emotionally charged comment but do appreciate your comments. I used like comments a month back after reading a similar article from the DN. I was accused of ranting by some on the comment board. Don't be surprised if you get ripped for your opinion. Be my guest, please rant on.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 22, 2011 1:17 p.m.

    treason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of betrayal of one's Sovereignty or Nation.

    traitor: A person who commits treason.

    Sovereignty: The supreme, absolute, and uncontrollable power by which any independent state is governed

    Nation: A group of people organized under a single government.

    Opposition to HB116 is definitely treason against the state government of Utah.

    Opposition to HB116 is not treason against the people of Utah.

    Legislators who deliberately create legislation that does harm to the people will probably be known as traitors to the people of Utah.

  • ljeppson Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2011 11:30 a.m.

    In making this charge, Beckham was inviting physical harm upon those he accused. This is getting pretty serious.

  • Sandy Citizen50 SANDY, UT
    July 22, 2011 11:12 a.m.

    Fitness Freak:

    I disagree with your comment that our leaders are not listening. Did you not read the column where it stated that a majority of Utahns supported the assortment of bills called the Utah Compact. I for one have asked several of my neighbors, co-workers and family members about their opinion on the Compact. Slightly more than half supported what our legislature did. It shows to me that the legislature did listen to their constituents and not to a few loud, over-zealous folks, like yourself. So, please calm down with your shouting comments and in the futre, please offer sound reasonable arguments that are backed up by facts and not single opinions. Our leaders are listening, and they are trying to work through a very difficult issue.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    July 22, 2011 10:51 a.m.

    Re: "The DNews did not attack and marginalize Mr. Beckham."

    Maybe you read a different article -- the one I read says:

    "This type of hyperbolic, inflammatory rhetoric is a poor substitute for good argument and should not have a place in Utah . . . ."


    "Beckham's remark also highlights . . . the rise of incivility in America, fueled by the Internet and by radio and TV personalities who have discovered that extreme rhetoric and character assassination are effective . . . ."


    "A wide variety of business, community and religious groups, including . . . The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, supported these legislative reforms."

    Note that the DNews editorial mentions, not once, Mr. Beckham's message. It merely attacks the messenger as uncivil and in opposition to the brethren -- neither of which is fair or true.

    This whole "civility" movement is nothing more than a continuation of the radical liberal scam to divert attention from the merits of the issues, which liberals know is their weak point -- they invariably lose on the issues.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2011 10:46 a.m.

    An editorial from the respected DNews that favors speech control, "This type of hyperbolic, inflammatory rhetoric is a poor substitute for good argument and should not have a place in Utah's or America's democratic process." I shudder when the free press give utterance to controlling speech. My mind reflects on other societies past and present that have such "social guardians" of speech. Beware the suggestion as rapidly it moves from speech to print and thought. Imperfect expressions are unfortunate, the restriction of such are tragic, and to call for such shameful.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2011 10:32 a.m.

    The "poll" that is referred to here, (that was commissioned and pd. for by the illegal immigrant lobby)I think pretty much everyone understands is bogus.

    Whether you agree of disagree with the word "traitor" makes no difference regarding the legal status of those who violate our borders.

    We also understand that our legislative Senate leadership previously has determined that their friendship with the "movers and shakers" in SLC is of paramount importance to them.

    NOT the legal Utah residents.

    Thats why we have the petition drive.

    Our leaders AREN'T LISTENING!

  • utvet.com PROVO, UT
    July 22, 2011 9:58 a.m.

    "A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy." --Samuel Adams Having said that I can only sigh after reading comments like those of Pete. Does the fact I don't agree with you make me a "bleeding heart liberal"? How do you know where a persons loyalty and heart lies, Pete? What makes you so sure that they want our money and anything else they can take at our expense? What have you done for your country?

  • Pete in Texas Copperas Cove, TX
    July 22, 2011 9:28 a.m.

    While the word "traitor" may have been a little over-the-top, I'm not sure there's a word that would more adequately describe individuals who are willing to allow amnesty to individuals who did and are entering this country illegally everyday. Illegal immigrants don't care a lick about our country as a whole. All they care about is our money. They leech off of our healthcare system, they don't pay a full and fair income tax, and cost our country millions, maybe billions, of dollars every year in lost revenue. Their true allegiance isn't to this beautiful country and all it represents. They want our money. Thats it. So please, all you bleeding-heart liberals who are ready to make them honorary citizens simply because they've lived in our country for years and years without being caught, don't mistake them for the honest, law-abiding immmigrants who are trying to go about LEGALLY obtaining citizenship to this wonderful country. Those people WANT to be a part of this country. The illegals don't. They don't want to pledge allegiance to our flag and all it represents. They want our money and anything else they can take at our expense. Period.

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    July 22, 2011 9:21 a.m.

    Procura: The DNews did not attack and marginalize Mr. Beckham. My gosh why is it with so many of our posters here that if a person disagrees with someone (as the DNews is doing) that others call it an attack and a marginalization? This was a well thought out and written editorial. I disagree more often than not with the DNews and their editorials but to say that they attack and marginalize is really a bit too much. I do enjoy reading your posts and hope that you continue but you might want to reconsider your last post.

  • provo.res Provo, UT
    July 22, 2011 9:07 a.m.

    Demonizing your political opponents is indication that you have a weak argument, or are insecure in your ability to defend it. Brandon Beckham: shame.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    July 22, 2011 8:39 a.m.


    It was the corrupt politicans and people not having the guts to acknowledge their misdeeds or do anything about them that led to totalitarianism in Germany. The Government knew they could get away with it so it just led them to committ even more treason. The same thing is being done here in America. But people don't have the guts to fight it and that is why we will become a totalitarian dictatorship becase we are letting them kill our dollar and our economy. We are letting them engage in unconstituional wars in the middle east so they can steal oil in the name of protecting our liberties which is a joke.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    July 22, 2011 8:29 a.m.

    Its comments from politicians like this, that make everything they say a bunch of hot air. I don't trust a word coming out of their mouths.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    July 22, 2011 7:12 a.m.

    So, attacking and marginalizing Mr. Beckham -- suggesting his position is flawed because he is in opposition to Church leaders -- is part of your new "civility" campaign?

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    July 22, 2011 7:03 a.m.

    I was deeply offended when treason was asserted. Enough of this kind of talk. Again, it is this kind of rhetoric and bullying that led to the imposition of totalitarianism in pre-World War II Germany, and it has no place here.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    July 22, 2011 6:46 a.m.

    John Walker Lindh was fighting alongside the Taliban BEFORE the US went to war there. He should be thought of more as a mercenary than "high treason". He shouldn't have been listed in your group as his actions came nowhere near those of the others - and he held no high post or office to make his actions fall into that category.

    This is a lot like calling Utah's legislators "traitors" actually. Somewhat over the top.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    July 22, 2011 3:14 a.m.

    Bribery is defined in the U.S. constitution as a high-crime.

    When lobbyists give elected representatives "gifts", I see no distinguishable difference between this and bribery.

    According to this, which is something I do believe- our current lobbyist/political system supports what our highest law deems a high-crime, even a treasonous one.


    This man saying that many people betray this country is wrong, but only because of his premise. Support of a bill, just because it's one you disagree with, does not equate to treason. - But, while so many in this country accept things that our constitution strictly forbids... I'm not exactly saying that everyone is innocent or exempt from this title either.