FreedomWorks loves Lee, hates Hatch

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  • homers Provo, UT
    July 15, 2011 10:27 p.m.

    The Desnews is a little jumpy with their sensorship. Wow! I can't believe some of the posts they keep off. Disappointing.

  • activ2004 Clearfield, UT
    July 15, 2011 1:45 p.m.

    Once again I plead, references please and it wouldn't hurt to use spell check while your busy spewing intelligence.

    Evidently some of you have no intellectual idea the legislative history of the social progressive individual[s] you are so proud to blindly follow.

    I think Steve Largent could expose your former majority leader, Freedom Works CEO [Armeys] track record for you.

  • FDRfan Sugar City, ID
    July 15, 2011 1:24 p.m.

    What are the freedoms of Freedomworks?
    1) Freedom to exploit the ignorant.
    2) Freedom to take advantage of the weak.
    3) Freedom to deceive the trusting.
    4 Freedom to encapsulate powdered pine bark and grape seeds and sell it as a miracle cure.
    5) Freedom from regulations.
    6) Freedom from taxation.
    7) Freedom from liability for amputating the wrong leg.
    8) Freedom to process diseased cattle for human consumption.
    9) Freedom to go back to laissez faire and caveat emptor.

  • lwad61 Provo, UT
    July 15, 2011 1:24 p.m.

    Too bad there's no organization called CompassionWorks. If there were, neither of these senators would make the cut, nor any of our other representatives with the occasional exception of Representative Matheson.

  • Gruffi Gummi Logan, UT
    July 15, 2011 12:44 p.m.

    "So, has Hatch really swung back to the Constitutional Conservative position?"

    No. He is an authoritarian pseudo-conservative, and he does not really mind a big government (the very same big government that the Constitution was intended to restrain).

  • carpoolmom SOUTH JORDAN, Salt Lake
    July 15, 2011 12:33 p.m.

    Several posters have asked us to tell us what Hatch has done that we don't like. Well here is a very small sampling.

    Hatch sponsored or co-sponsored 85 earmarks totaling $127,075,000 in fiscal year 2010, ranking 28th out of 100 senators.
    Hatch said this " six years ago, it was standard practice not to pay for things,"

    Now he says, Ultimately, Utah taxpayers shouldnt be footing the bill for other states." Funny how hes been okay with forcing people from other states to pay our bill for years.

    Hatch has said the individual insurance mandate is unconstitutional. but in 1993 Hatch co-sponsored a health care bill that included an individual mandate.

    A jobs bill with a price tag of $17.6 billion Sponsored by Hatch.

    He never tried to block judicial nominees until the tea party came after him.

    SCHIP was like goverenment health care that Hatch supported.

    He voted for tax cheat Guithner. He voted for Bush's stimulus.

    If you like the things he has done vote for him.But most don't look at his record and have no idea of what he's passed.

  • activ2004 Clearfield, UT
    July 15, 2011 11:53 a.m.

    Some of the comments against Sen. Hatch would be substantively credible if the authors actually understood and exposed the legislative process at minimum and revealed the propaganda agenda source they are beholden to, if you dare.

    This quasi debate would be less nauseating if backed by historical legislative facts revealing the rest of the story rather than postmortem bumper sticker humor.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 15, 2011 11:40 a.m.

    To facts_r_stubborn | 11:03 a.m. July 15, 2011
    Kaysville, UT

    Are you absolutely SURE it was liberals who got us into this mess? I was there and still remember a two-bit B-Movie actor named Ronald who started the ball rolling. The rolling ball was pushed along by a flock of corporate shills who all had a big R beside their names on the ballots.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 15, 2011 11:27 a.m.

    Facts - you do understand that government spending held steady in this country as measured as percentage of GDP for 50 years, until Reagan became president and it began to spike.

    Claiming one party or another started this whole thing is just living in a false world of simplicitude. My side is good, their side is bad. How rediculas of a proposition is that.

    I equally find it ironic that the tea-party types liked to point out that Hatch last week had raised money from outside the state... and yet here they are with open hands going after support of an outside lobbyiest group that has no roots in Utah. Double standard perhaps?

    And to whom ever spewed that FreedomWorks was a left leaning organization, that is really a frightening comment... becuase there just isn't too much more right winged than FreedomWorks... save it were anarchy or totalitarianism.

    Scary stuff that people get so wrapped up in this that they will believe what ever media outlet they listen to that much without fact checking a little in the process.

  • facts_r_stubborn Kaysville, UT
    July 15, 2011 11:03 a.m.

    So far all the tea party groups have accomplished is unseating conservative senators with conservative senators who yell louder. When they have unseated President Obama, taken control of the Senate with a 60 seat majority and solved the entitlement problems which are the true cause of deficit spending, then they can crow.

    Until then they are taking us to the brink of default for the first time in our nations history. If they succeed in taking us there, economic recovery and reducint the deficit will be infinately more difficult. And that will be the least of our problems.

    If they deliver, I'll eat my words. Until then the tea party groups are the second greatest danger facing our nation and freedom, next to the liberals who take the top prize for getting us into this mess in the first place.

  • Bruce A. Frank San Jose, CA
    July 15, 2011 11:00 a.m.

    I lived in UT when Hatch first moved to UT to run for office. I met him, and shook hands with him, at an informal address he made to a group of students at Utah Technical College (the name at the time). As I have moved around the country over the years I maintain strong friendships in SLC, visit frequently, and, as a strong conservative, track Senator Orin Hatch's career.

    Hatch displays a mindset typical of those inside the beltway. His core is plastic emphasized by statements like, "I can work with Senator Ted Kennedy," or "I can work with Senator John Kerry." His vote is directed more by "go along to get along" rather than a strong conservative heart. I am surprised he has lasted as long as he has. I am also surprised that he hasn't had a long lasting epiphany from previous close calls at the GOP primary conventions.

    I do not believe Hatch is the conservative some, including himself, claim him to be. He is just conservative enough to schmooze the Utah electorate. Yes, it is time for a change.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    July 15, 2011 10:38 a.m.

    @ Ultra Bob

    Don't think that I am not aware of the two parallel governments that we see at odds with each other; a very strong corporate UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and a very weak Constitutional united states of America. Educated and wise Americans pine for a vibrant Constitutional government. The blissfully ignorant will never understand how even intelligent men like Orrin Hatch were carefully enticed into this matrix of corporate entitlements at the expense of humanity.

    There is no boogey man. I agree with you there. We don't need one because we are surrounded by real live bad guys. They're not boogey men. They are politicians, lobbyists, bankers and flag waving voters that really don't know who they are voting for. And sadly, they ALL work for the corporation. For this, I am obligated to apologize to my kin for doing my part in letting this happen.

  • XelaDave Salem, UT
    July 15, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    What a goal- "something while in power" thus acknolwedging that you will not be in power forever and even setting the bar low enough that you will acknowledge you will will loose power- sounds like a place I should invest my money- lets do something while we can but in the end we will loose- sounds like Dick Armey's career in a nut shell- take what I can and then take more later if I get a chance

  • Tami Herriman, UT
    July 15, 2011 9:55 a.m.

    Why do these politicians get so entrenched that they can not see the writing on the wall and can't make a decent decision to benefit the people? Hatch needs to realize he is in trouble and do the people of Utah one last service-spend his time, effort and considerable war chest to help us elect a GOOD Republican senator rather than risking handing his office to the democrats. Why is he being so selfish?

  • activ2004 Clearfield, UT
    July 15, 2011 9:46 a.m.

    Please, when disparaging Sen. Orrin Hatch, prove your fiscal, socially progressive, ethical, divisive intelligence by citing examples of your transparent rhetoric supporting your mindless accusations.

    IOW, back up with facts what you spew. Senator Hatch would love to have the power he is being accused of, this country would be a .... of a lot better than it is if he did.

    The tea party IE freedom works is nothing more than the Obama, Biden, Reid, Pelosi, Clinton, Carter and on and on and on politically ravenous wolves in sheep clothing, using the holy wood Mr. Chaffetz and Mr. Lee as case study. They have not and will never be in a position to make a difference because they are professed one termers?.

    Freedom works wants nothing more than to retire Sen. Hatch so they, the social progressives will have more power to do what they want with Utah's energy resources and public lands and [the family].

    Please pardon the grammar I am a product of public education, NCLB. So I suppose I actually do fit in.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 15, 2011 9:40 a.m.

    Jonathan Eddy | 8:41 a.m.

    Do you recall when your parents apologized to you for the National Debt. I can't seem to remember such with my parents. As a matter of fact, despite hearing about the national debt all my adult life, I cannot point to a single event or problem where the national debt effected my life. Just what is it that you feel the need to apologize for. Other than that mystical intangible thing that the politicians and hucksters keep talking about.

    Is it just possible that your children will chastise you for being distracted by a phony boogey man and ignoring the real problems of this nation and thus allowing the loss of freedom and rights under the government by corporation. But it may be too late to apologize then.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    July 15, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    Senator Hatch is a great man and a great senator. However, it's time to retire. He'll be eighty when he runs againf or a six-year term. His desperate campaign to hold on to his job is really beginning to look pathetic. I hope he'll reconsider rather than get humiliated at the convention. I think that's the way it's heading.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 15, 2011 9:14 a.m.

    The most important and first lie in this article is the omission of the first word in the name. It should read BusinessFreedomWorks.

    Another lie: "Every time government acts, it does so at the expense of individual liberty." The truth is, whatever freedom we have comes from the collective government of the society we live in. Without government we would have no rights and no freedom.

    "FreedomWorks is all about the same things that prompted me to run for the U.S. Senate and that same principle which motivates my every policy decision here, which is the idea that freedom isn't free," The business lobby is extremely expensive.

    Lee said during a recent phone call. "Freedom is something we have to look out for and protect; freedom is something that is fundamentally at odds with government action". In this statement Lee ignores the part of the Constitution that is the Preamble and the Declaration of Independence that says: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men".

    Some of us hope that people will see these lies and rebuke the Tea Party false and unhealthy propaganda.

  • IdahoStranger NEWDALE, ID
    July 15, 2011 9:12 a.m.

    Sometimes feelings are very important and you should follow through on them.

  • IdahoStranger NEWDALE, ID
    July 15, 2011 9:10 a.m.

    So, has Hatch really swung back to the Constitutional Conservative position?
    Time will tell and it will just be a few days before we can see how he votes on the raising of the national debt limit.

    Will he vote to not raise it? Does it make sense to keep getting and using more credit cards when you are facing bankruptcy?

    His vote on just this one issue in my opinion will tell voters all they need to know about Senator Hatch now.

    I think I can safely predict that he no longer has the political courage to go against the establishment Republicans. Spend and spend, tax and tax! Its still time for a Tea Party!

  • carpoolmom SOUTH JORDAN, Salt Lake
    July 15, 2011 9:00 a.m.

    I agree totally with Jonathan. Couldn't have said it better. We all let Hatch get away with government becoming too large and taking away our freedoms and making our country go bankrupt. It's very hard for me to have any kind word for Hatch.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 15, 2011 8:58 a.m.

    When people get involved and learn for themselves how our elected officials have voted, they will not "need" organizations like "freedom works" to do their research for them.

    That is the crux of our nation's problems. People sit back, watch the thirty-second political advertisements and make up their minds to vote for smiling Senator Hatch because he "looks like a senator". Looks can be deceiving. Mr. Obama looked great and sounded great but he is woefully inexperienced. Senator Hatch looks great and says all the right things, but just look at his ENTIRE record. He has helped cause our financial crisis. We don't need Senators who dig our financial grave. It's time for him to retire, whether "Freedom Works" says so or not.

  • utahboni Ogden, UT
    July 15, 2011 8:57 a.m.

    I'm surprised to read that there are only 1 million people in the tea party movement. That is only .3% of the population. There are more people than that who believe in a hollow earth populated by blue reptilians. With all the press they've received, I thought that there were about 100 million of them or a third of the population.
    Most of the people involved in this movement seem egregiously uninformed. Don't they realize that cutting government means cutting jobs? Until this year, government workers felt secure enough to still be making major purchases, i.e., cars, houses, etc. I wonder how many tea party members own business and are wondering where their customers have gone.
    FDR got us out of the depression by raising taxes on the wealthy and creating the WPA, aka government jobs, putting people back to work. When working people have money, they spend it and it ends up back in the pockets of the wealthy. If the government doesnt step in to keep it flowing, all of the money ends up in the pockets of just a few.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    July 15, 2011 8:41 a.m.

    My children and my children's children have a life of huge debt waiting for them. They are basically slaves from cradle to grave. Why? Because I trusted men like Orrin Hatch (I am as much to blame for this as he because of my blind trust). He has cared more about special interests than my children. I let him ruin my children's future while he was having fun with his friends in Washington. I'm sick about it and now I will spend the rest of my life apologizing to my kids.

    But I will not let it end there. I will punish Mr. Hatch. I will scold him for being a foolish steward. Then I will fire him. Then I will do my best to fix what he messed up by finding men and women that know how to govern by Constitutional principles, just like my original forefathers did. Finally, I will continue to beg forgiveness from my family for believing in Orrin Hatch. I have no animosity toward him but I need to let him know with my vote that he let me down.

  • Christmas Carole LAS CRUCES, NM
    July 15, 2011 8:28 a.m.

    Mililani Hl:I accept your opinion GLADLY and appreciate that you may still voice an opinion. Professional politicians(as I feel Hatch has become)seem to be geting closer to ending some of those freedoms. These types of leaders seem to be more interested in their personal careers than in the people. In the state I reside in, we were blessed enough to have more conservative leaders in the last election. I attribute this in great part to the Tea Party. I have attended meetings(have you?)and have discovered nothing that would encourage anything but freedom. As far as Huntsman and Romney go..they are already distant in some ways, to me. I am very glad for that. Personally, I would rather Huntsman have waited and not competed with Romney...wonder why he did that? Seems strange...

  • FDRfan Sugar City, ID
    July 15, 2011 7:41 a.m.

    Would it not be s good time to review the reasons why Utah did not receive as high a rating by freedomworks as it could have? It seems to me that Utah was too much like Bedford Falls and if it were more like Pottersville it would have been ranked much higher by this "freedom" loving organization. Their version of freedom leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that I feel like eating manure to get rid of it.

  • DD JayMario American Fork, UT
    July 15, 2011 7:22 a.m.

    Does anybody really think Jason Chaffetz would better represent Utah than Orrin Hatch? I mean, Hatch shouldn't have expanded entitlements over the past 30 years, but he seems to understand that now, and has the seniority in the senate to get a lot done. A junior senator will be pretty far down the pecking order and that wouldn't be good for Utah. Term limits don't work very well in the senate because of the benefits of long tenure.

  • silas brill Heber, UT
    July 15, 2011 7:13 a.m.

    [ FreedomWorks is ... chaired by former U.S. House Majority Leader Dick Armey. ]

    Which is why I say this tea party nonsense is a poor attempt by the Republican Party to rebrand itself.

  • Informed Voter South Jordan, UT
    July 15, 2011 6:57 a.m.

    Old school republicans have had their chance and their lack of passion for conservative principles hurt them. Voters who lament the defeat of Bennet and perhaps Hatch and who chose Obama can thank themselves. Obama's policies, appointments, and lack of love for America and our capitalistic system scares the daylights out of conservatives who have thus awaken with a vengeance. We have cause to fear for our children and grandchildren. Voting to remove old timers from Washington is our best -and apparently only - effective option!

  • Furry1993 Somewhere in Utah, UT
    July 15, 2011 6:47 a.m.

    If FreedomWorks supports Lee, then it shows that it has no credibility at all.

  • David B. Cedar City, UT
    July 15, 2011 6:41 a.m.

    Hatch has become a dinosaur of sorts and out of touch. I'm sorry but the time has come for him to move on in life. Thou he has done things over the years it just hasn't been happening for him in the last few years and we need so new blood and ideas. The status quo has got to change now. I see that benefit in Lee now that's why I'll support him at this time. Sorry Mr. Hatch you've been a good workhorse but it's time for you to go.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2011 6:37 a.m.

    Not too many flashs left in the far right wing pan.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    July 15, 2011 6:37 a.m.

    Dick Armey makes tons of money from his new profession as he and his organization use the poorly informed people who protest the government while at the same time relying on its benefits. And $13,000+ from FreedomWorks won't make any more difference than money from other sources. Yet Hatch is willing to sell his soul to the pernicious tea party. This whole situation reeks of hypocrisy and is the germination of the the seeds of tyranny. The poor tea party people are being used and they don't even know it. The winners in all this are the wealthy and the corporate interests, while the rest of us lose not only our financial position but our personal rights. The threat to this country is coming from the right, not the left.

  • BrentBot Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2011 6:24 a.m.

    Hatch's situation just underscores the need for the Tea Party to remain active in the years ahead. Nothing motivates a politican to keep the "minimal government faith" more than a threat to his re-election. Because Sen. Hatch didn't have credible opposition all these years he drifted into RINO territory.

  • Walt Nicholes Orem, UT
    July 15, 2011 5:54 a.m.

    Hatch doesn't get it. And that is astounding to me. He has been and is a brilliant politician, but he just doesn't get it. He makes sweeping statements about what Utah politics is and what Utah politics isn't and he doesn't see that Utah politics have changed.

    He has lots of money. This is reported as though it is the full answer. But he has been on the prow of the ship that has slowly been taking us to economic disaster. WIll he vote against a debt limit increase? Of course not.

    Hatch has the same attitude as Bennet had: "I know better than the people." When he fails to come out of the primary then he will know that his arrogance was without foundation.

  • ama Mililani, HI
    July 15, 2011 5:28 a.m.

    May the Readers be reminded that these two gentlemen are not personally going at each other; its the Tea Party Organization whoever they are. I hope that these political differences brewed by this organization or certain leaders of this organization will not cause any hard feelings between these two fine leaders. I am seeing the same thing this Tea Party organization is doing to Mitt Romney and Huntsman. This wise maneuvering by the Tea Party is causing a division between these great leaders. But, does this Tea Party really care about these gentlemen or is it for a much deeper and darker political reason to get all of them out of the nations political arena because they are Mormons?
    I am very weary of the DIRTY POLITICS going on in our nation. Please Help!

  • ER in EUR Belgrade, Serbia
    July 15, 2011 4:58 a.m.

    This is the deepest foundation of why I have such extreme distain for the Tea Party. I believe in some of what they stand for. I say this because it illustrates what the TPers lack, which is the ability to see the other side of different issues. You do not have to compromise on everything, but if you compromise on nothing you will be part of the problem, nay, THE problem that exists in Washington DC.

    I admire Senator Hatch because he can see that knowledge and ideas can come from all minds, not just those deluded by one party (TP).

    If you are inflexible, you will be temporary. As polls have shown, the majority of the US population are not extremists on either side. Example: only 20% of the population think the debt ceiling problem can be addressed by spending cuts. In fact, a supermajority (67%) of the nations population believe we should have tax increases as part of the plan for the debt ceiling solution.

    The TPers will be short lived, but they can really make problems for the US. Look at Ross Perot. Clinton was President with 43% and 49% of the vote because of Perot.

  • PeanutGallery Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2011 1:17 a.m.

    FreedomWorks' support for Lee and not for Hatch shouldn't be surprising at all. Yes, Hatch has done a lot of good and he USED to be conservative. But in more recent years he has sometimes buddied up to liberal senators in various big-government causes. Then he has come home and condescendingly scolded us when we disapprove of his freedom-eroding ideas.

    Now he's appearing conservative again - especially after seeing what happened to Senator Bennett. But personally I don't trust him, because I don't think conservatism is in his heart any more, and I think we're naïve if we re-elect him.

    I'd rather have a senator who is a principled conservative, not one who merely becomes conservative when re-election time rolls around.

  • ljeppson Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2011 12:33 a.m.

    If Freedomworks and Lee think the people of this country are going to stand by and just watch the social safety net be decimated they've got a few things coming. There will be a massive revolt. This could be Hatch's ace in the hole, but it probably won't happen soon enough to save him (and then remember this is Utah).