Make the procedure for getting and keeping in simple enough that anyone can do
without a lawyer. Laws must be readable and understandable by the common man to
be fair.Those legally here can stay here. To be fair to those already
here, others must get back into the pipeline even if that starts in their own
country.Secure the border.
DougBOur recent regulations allow over a million people in each year on
just green cards. That does not include visas. More than any other
Industrialized country in the world. You don't flood an economy with
cheap labor, it will destroy the middle class. To many jobs, you see wages go
up, to few jobs, you see wages go down. You artificially inflate the labor/wage
cycle, you drive down wages for everyone, and end up with 9-10% unemployment. A
mature countries growth must be fixed and steady. Other countries do it, we have
a right to also. Americans should be setting our immigration quotas,
not foreign citizens, countries, or dishonest businessmen looking for welfare.
Wait your turn like the rest of the world. It's a matter of honesty,
and respecting a country enough that you follow it's laws.
to Peter CoyotlI know exactly what you mean. The real standard is do
you believe in open borders and amnesty? If you don't your comments are
"offensive" or some other arbitrary thing.The DN is a media with an
agenda and is more censored than publications in countries without freedom of
the press. Tow the line or don't waste your time.
RE:Walt Nicholes I repeatedly hear people complaining about the "vote"
of the illegals, as in "They just can't do without the vote of the
illegals." FInd me one real and documented example. Find me a single poll
worker who can prove that an illegal voted, or a single illegal who will attest
that they did actually get on the voter registration rolls and cast a ballot.
What hooey!I just had to comment on your above paragraph....Didn't
you read the article in the DN "Vargas admitted to breaking numerous laws
to conceal his citizenship status... in the original New York Times Magazine
article, Vargas admitted to breaking numerous laws to conceal his citizenship
status. The memo also directs ICE officials to avoid prosecuting a wide array of
individuals, including those who grew up in the U.S. and attended college both
of which Vargas did." Apparently he came as a teen, got a Drivers license,
etc....My employment consisted of working stolen identity cases for
the IRS...so I know not only do they file fraudulent IRS returns, but vote as
well... please reconsider your position.
@billysworkshop.Then YOU pay for all their health care, food,
housing, education, etc, etc, etc.I am tired of seeing our bridges
broken, roads with way too many pot holes and seeing our national debt out of
Those who have illegally entered or overstayed their visa's are breaking our
laws and need to be deported. The recent world cup soccor game at the Rose Bowl
in LA demonstrates clearly where their loyalties lie. The crowd cheered for
Mexico and boo'd against the USA. Utah seems to be following the same course as
California and the law of the harvest will be the same, bankruptcy,and extremely
business unfriendly enviroment and crime and corruption. Yes these people are
poor and desparate but by leaving their country which they should be helping
they are increasing our problems.I am completely fine with legal immigration,it
is great to serve those who are being persecuted in Africa or Albania but obey
the law and do things legally.It is too bad that crooks prey on this group.
The laws are not broken, the system does not need to be fixed. We just need to
force people to be honest. That's the problem, we have a lack of honesty driven
by greed. And it not only hurts Americans, it hurts those waiting in other
countries when we let people crowd in line. Walt Nicholes, 2005, U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the
30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a
two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. You can
find the link to their site with a search engine.
tenx,if 3.5 billion people came here tomorrow then America still
wouldn't even come close to the population density of my ancestors' country of
origin: England. America has room enough and to spare. We have a lion's share
of natural resources as well. Arable land to farm, oil, minerals, etc. 3.5
billion people are not going to come. But if they did, we could handle it.
We'd have to kick-start American ingenuity and innovation again and get off our
butts a little. But we could do it.Built2Last,Do you
find it a good thing that our recent "immigration regulations" are
designed to keep people out? If so, why? What makes these new immigrant of so
much less worth than your ancestors who most likely didn't face centralized
planning restricted liberty and quotas by a government that believes it knows
best about everything and takes increasing amounts of your taxes to preserve
that illusion?When my ancestors came they didn't take people's jobs
or scarce resources. They innovated, irrigated, built industries and businesses
and communities.Where on earth people are getting these entitlement
notions and trust in secular governments, I don't know, but it's un-American.
@billysworkshop: "I only wish all of you were placed in the same exact
circumstances as these people."There are 3 billion (with a
"B") people in this world who are in much the same situation. We
can't take them all so, to be fair, we shouldn't be taking any. They have to
make it where they live. (Watch Immigration Gumballs on YouTube for an
eyeopener)"They are not leaving tropical paradise, they are
leaving some of the worse places on earth and doing it for a love of their
friends and family."So? They need to stay home, work their
buttocks off, and help lift their native countries by the bootstraps. That's
what immigrants (legal) did to this country.----------------------@Lyle: "Well, that's the problem being
described here. The victims of the notarios think they 'are' following the legal
system."Isn't it ironic that law breakers are being scammed by
other law breakers?
billyworkshop 12:45. You need to get out and about a bit. There are a few
billion people on this earth worse off than the ones you describe on the streets
of Mexico City. And how many "huddled masses" do you want? 3
billion, 4 billion? The USA presently takes in more immigrants than any other
country on earth! If you want to help those who can't come you might donate to
some relief agencies. Viva LEGAL immigration.
@Peter Coyotl: "I would comment on this story but the control freak
moderators who do not agree with what I say, despite not violating any polices
of the DN, will reject my comment."Get in touch with Deseret
News' Greg Kratz by phone or email. He's very understanding. He will take your
complaint and is very fair about it.
Lyle If the illegals were following the system of immigration which
presently is the "law of the land" and were in this country legally
they would not need the services of the notarios or any immigration lawyer.
HB116 essentially would do the same thing (beginning in 2013), inasmuch as it
would -- even without a federal waiver, as set forth in the bill -- charge
illegal aliens a $2500 (or $1500) "fine" and then issue a "Utah
guest worker permit" that would still leave a permit-holder vulnerable to
Federal prosecution and deportation. Thus HB116, too, essentially is a
"fake work permit" scam.
dlw7 wrote: "It is OK to circumvent that process and do whatever it takes
to "get theirs" without following the legal system."Well, that's the problem being described here. The victims of the notarios
think they *are* following the legal system.
This article would like us to believe that it would be better for the illegal
aliens to go to a lawyer rather than a notary. Immigration lawyers may not be
much better. Back in 2009 for example 7 members of the Alcala Law Firm were
indicted on visa fraud, working a scheme with Mexican partners. It was estimated
that they helped provide nearly 5000 fraudulent visas.In my opinion
it would be better for illegal aliens to return to their country of origin and
save their money rather than trusting even immigration lawyers.
@Walt Nicholes "I repeatedly hear people complaining about the
"vote" of the illegals...Find me one real and documented example. Find
me a single poll worker who can prove that an illegal voted..."Actually this is a known problem in Arizona, and one of the ways they're able
to prove it is that an illegal will get a jury summons but will swear under oath
that they are not citizens and therefore do not qualify for jury duty -- but
will already be registered to vote. In one year alone hundreds of cases of
non-citizen voter registrations were reported. Some of these were prosecuted.
Undoubtedly this is happening in Utah too. Ever heard of fake ID's?The problem is glaring enough that Arizona enacted voter-ID laws requiring
proof of citizenship in to register to vote. And sure enough, the Obama
administration is at it again, fighting Arizona in court over this as it already
is over its other immigration enforcement laws. Earlier this month Arizona
Attorney General Tom Horne openly accused the Obama administration of doing this
in an effort to garner illegal-aliens' votes.
Illegal scammers taking advantage of illegal immigrant! Somehow that seems
Poetic Justice. There is a system for immigration to this country. For alot of
year, it worked. Immigrants came to this country, learned English, found work,
contributed to the community around them and became legal citizens of the United
States of America. Now, it that seems passe. It is OK to circumvent that
process and do whatever it takes to "get theirs" without following the
legal system. Schools, welfare systems, etc become overloaded with these people
and who pays for them? You, Me, Us!! No matter what a Church, Hispanic
Leaders,and Politicians say---this is wrong morally and is wrong legally.
I only wish all of you were placed in the same exact circumstances as these
people. They are not leaving tropical paradise, they are leaving some of the
worse places on earth and doing it for a love of their friends and family. 90%
of the Hispanics here are extremely peaceful, loving, friendly, and are only
here because there was not other alternative. I guarantee if your family was
starving, living in the streets of Mexico City you would have done the exact
same thing...I know I would..... Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled
masses yearning to breathe free.
DougB 9:50. After 32 years of working in foreign countries I have seen my share
of immigration problems. Been there and done that. My wife is a immigrant and
her father also. Our system works. If you can pass the background and health
tests then you must have patience, currently 12 years worth. We have a quota
system which many say is the "broken part" of our immigration laws. I
think those quotas are necessary otherwise you would have 3 billion plus coming
here. The illegals wake up one day and want to come here the next day. Rather
than wait 12 years they just jump the line and sneak in. Increase the quotas if
you want, but we must stop those that want to jump to the front of the line.
That's not having respect for the laws of our country.
Proyecto Latino de Utah and Utah immigration lawyers, stated this would happen.
It is a part of why they are against HB 116. These groups along with
diametrically opposed groups like the Utah Minuteman Project spoke at
legislative committee meetings about the problems HB 116 (SB 60, SB 288) would
bring about. No one listened. Within days of the Governor signing the bill,
these scams began, world wide. The sponsors and the people who wrote this bill
should be held accountable for the countless victims this bill has caused and
will be causing.
I would comment on this story but the control freak moderators who do not agree
with what I say, despite not violating any polices of the DN, will reject my
Enforcing the law would be the right thing to do. Shut down these predators.
These people should go to jail. America has become a wicked place.
DougB,Can you quote any statistic that shows "A majority of the
'undocumented' tried the legal paths and failed because of our broken
immigration system"? Just because you want to believe it doesn't make it
so. Being one who emigrated to the U.S. legally, I am very doubtful
that most who are here illegally applied at a consolate for a visa or a green
card. Too expensive and it is well known that unless they have a legitimate
reason to be in the U.S., the INS will deny your application. Their job is to
keep people out of the country; not help people come into the country.
These poor hapless Notario Publicos, et.al., are ill-informed. When they sit
down with an illegal immigrant client and they don't immediately turn them over
to the federal ICE agency, they are in violation of the Federal Aiding,
Abetting, and Harboring of Illegal Aliens law (8 USC 1324).
@Walt NicholesWalt, I think you're a bit confused if you think
politicians are going after the "illegal vote." Illegals can't vote.
And won't try, for fear of being exposed and deported.The votes
politicians are going for are friends and relatives of illegals. In other
words, they want the vote of American citizen Hispanics... of which there are
about 343,000 (12%) in Utah and 48,400,000 (14%) in the US. And by 2050 the
Hispanic population in the US will be an estimated 132.8 million... probably
enough to take over and run the country.
CJ and others: The "Law" you want to follow allows an immigrant to
seek a change to permanent status after they come here. These people are doing
nothing wrong by seeking the services of an immigration attorney to help with
the confusing (and in English) paperwork associated with changing immigration
status. In fact, our laws make it practically necessary to hire an attorney as
one mistake in the paperwork will render the entire application void.
If S.American countries could possibly afford to make their immigrants legal,
before they flee to the us for better lives, they would probably use the money
to support cultural wars in the usa, since the majority of s.american
governments were put in place by terrorist orginizations embedded in american
govt., this is whatthe fuss about Reagan selling weapons to contras.this
is one of the problems with immigrant workers the usa now faces, but who knows
what the truth really is, the lesson is if you take the media message as gospel
ur a bigger jerk than any bigot from utah.
DougB,Finally, a voice of reason! What people don't see is
immigrants trying to fix their status and being scammed. How many times we have
read of people who came here under amnesty and then a so called lawyer rip them
off? The system needs to be fixedThe borders need to be
securedImmigration system didn't exist until mid 20th Century. Before that
was getting into a ship, arriving to Ellis Island, inspected to check you have
no lice and writing your name on a passenger list. But if you came thru Canada,
you just needed to find your way thru the border.
tenx,It is not at all true that potential immigrants who go through
the "legal process" encounter "no problems". A majority of
the "undocumented" tried the legal paths and failed because of our
broken immigration system. Be grateful that your ancestors got in before
"Big Brother" went and broke the front door.I have great
empathy for the undocumented in our country. I completely fail to see how they
are so much more evil than my British ancestors who came here before our
contradictory, complicated, unevenly enforced, and problematic system of
"immigration regulations". I do, however, feel quite strongly that
those who view our recent immigrants as sub-human and then lie to, cheat, and
steal from them are doing something quite immoral and contemptible.We need to streamline and overhaul the overgrown and inept system at our
border that tries to do the things that destroyed our communist rivals -- it
attempts to dictate who can do what and live where and why. Despite the large
quote on the Statue of Liberty welcoming the poor and outcast, the Feds now
accept only those with lots of money and power as "legal" immigrants.
It's un-American and needs reform.
Re: one day... | 5:33 a.m. June 27, 2011 "You will find better
solutions than yours, sorry!...next!"There is a better solution
than enforcing the law? People entering our country are expected to be invited
in through the front door ... not through an unlocked back window.
I repeatedly hear people complaining about the "vote" of the illegals,
as in "They just can't do without the vote of the illegals."FInd me one real and documented example. Find me a single poll worker who can
prove that an illegal voted, or a single illegal who will attest that they did
actually get on the voter registration rolls and cast a ballot. What hooey!The illegals may make a huge difference in the statistical polls and
surveys that support this or that, but I'm betting than more dead people voted
Sadly, there are many locally who would scam their neighbor, an illegal, an
immigrant, or even their own mother - all in the name of making ends meet for
their family. The scams come in the form of "Notarios", some potion
that is supposed to cure this or that (unproven by hard science, no doubt - or
at least grossly exagerated), or are built on multi-level organizations where
company leadership knows its "salesforce" is making obsurd claims to
sell overpriced product.Well folks, buyer beware. The snake-oil
salespeople are everywhere, and they want your hard-earned dollars. Don't think
because you are in Utah, or because the salesperson goes to church, that they
aren't willing to take your money and give little-to-nothing of value in
return.It's time we demand a higher standard for making a living.
Let's start with delivering real value as opposed to wheeling and dealing,
scamming and taking advantage of others.
In a fair world, most of the clients discussed in this story would be turned
over to immigration autorities for deportation, not assisted in continued
illegal presence.I must have missed the story praising the hard
working men and women prtoecting the interests of all citizens and legal
residents by enforcing our laws and securing the border.Oh, wait,
those people are despised by the politically correct crowd and will be undercut
and underfunded by pandering politicians, and never receive a word of praise by
the liberal media.Too bad we have our priorities reversed.
One day.. "better solutions"??? I suppose that means amnesty and
allowing those who are here stealing jobs, healthcare, education, and anything
else they can to cut themselves some kind of deal instead of obeying the law. Do
you really think that the millions of jobs that illegals are stealing with the
money going straight to Mexico isn't devastating the economy? Can't wait to hear
some of your "better solutions". I suppose you think HB116 is one of
them. Rewarding lawlessness is never a solution to anything. Why don't you tell
us all some of your great solutions?
It's hard to cheat an honest man.C'mon, people. Those scammers are just
trying to make a living and take care of their families. That's a noble cause.
We ought to just leave them alone and let them break the law.
The worst about illegal immigration, are those who take advantage of it; the
coyotes, "notarios", employers, civil rights activists, politicians...
CJ 11:27. I agree completely with your comments. Scammers include the
politically correct crowd who are encouraging illegals to come here. They are
part of the problem. Immigrants who go through the legal process have no
problems. Viva LEGAL immigration.
CJ , I agree with you in part but, in other countries they do not have a good
documentation practices which makes it harder for someone to navigate our
system. I understand that this is no excuse or reason to justify break the law,
but we do need to fix this so people can come here legally and protect our
system of emigration
Why don't we do everyone a favor by enforcing the law and sending everyone
accused of any crime straight to prison? No arraignment, no preliminary
hearing, no plea bargain, no presumption of innocence, no trial, no attorney, no
appeal. Who cares about civil rights or the Constitution? They just get in the
way of law enforcement. What we really need is a police state. Think of the
money it would save. Now there's a way to cut spending!
to CJYou will find better solutions than yours, sorry!...next!
CJ you are right but you know the politcians aren't going to enforce the laws
already on the books. They'll just write some new farce of a law that will do
nothing and then say we don't have the money to enforce it. They just can't do
without the vote of illegals. This problem has to start at the borders,get our
troops home from overseas and put them on the border with Mexico and Canada and
do their training there. But then again that would be to simple for them to
So how does it feel? Scamming the scammer, I love it, there is some justice
left. Now they know how americans feel when Hispanics are favored by
prejudice and discrimination by cities, states, federal government and law
"Some enterprising notarios have begun selling fake "Utah Work
Permits" for as much as $2,500 each."Very, very
interesting. Sounds uncannily and effectively identical to what Bramble,
Lockhart, Mero, and others are doing with their HB116 "Guest worker"
program: in the name of a $2500 (or $1500) "fine," and beginning in
2013, they effectively would sell a Utah work permit to illegal aliens EVEN
WITHOUT a federal waiver -- which would make these "permits," what?
Fake Utah work permits!Like those discussed in this
article, these "guest worker permits" pursuant to HB116 would leave
the permit-holder perfectly vulnerable to Federal prosecution and deportation.
Yes, that's right, illegal alien, these legislators who pretend to
be your friends are the most egregious of the "notarios." Their scam
is on a massive, state-wide scale. The unscrupulous special interests they work
for -- the businesses who want you as disposable servants, for example -- are
very much part of the scam. Remember, illegal alien: those here in
Utah who condone your illegal presence in America are not your friends. The
Most Reverend Bishop Wester, to his credit, finally figured this out, which is
why he has withdrawn his support of HB116.
If we enforced our laws, this would not be a problem. The time to
apply for citizenship was before you came, not after being here for years and
threatened with deportation.
Why don't we do everyone a favor by enforcing the law and letting these people
go home to their own country and apply from there like everyone else does? Then
you don't have to worry about it. "Legal" starts in the right place
and that isn't within the borders of the USA. If you want to do it right begin
in your own country instead of breaking into ours. Anyone whose first action is
to crash the border should never under any circumstances be given American
citizenship. You break the law before anything else and you should be sent home
without ever being allowed to become a citizen. Can we please start worrying
about the problems of American citizens and quit spending our time trying to
work out deals with people who have no right to even be here?