To Wastintime: I may agree that the millions of pounds could be an
exaggeration. However, the point I think was trying to be made is that The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints sent thousands of pounds to the
South Asia countries after the tsumani hit there. Again thousands were sent to
Louisiana, Kentucky and many other areas of the United States were hit by
hurricanes, ice storms, tornadoes and other natural disasters. Thousands more
were sent to Australia, Chile and other South/Central American countries, Japan
and many others. Also mentioned by others is the Perpetual Education Fund
established to assist many who otherwise could never afford a college/trade
education. They then payback the amount given if they are able.You
take the fast offerings given on what is generally the first Sunday of every
month for those who are in need for it. Don't forget the many voluteer actions
by members around the world and you will see that The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints gives more than what many think it does.A quote:
"I would like to thank two churches, the Mormons and the LDS Church for
Why would a non-religious, political group invite a religious leader to speak to
them at all? What do religious leaders have to say that is at all relevant to
political issues? Religion needs to learn its place and stay there. Concern
yourselves with the spirits of men, and your promises of rewards in heaven, not
with their physical existence and the political and social issues these
involve.Mormons "...believe that religion is instituted of God;
and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it,
unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and
liberties of others;"Stop using your religious opinions to
infringe on the rights and liberties of others!
@Sarah NicholeI'd like your source for that 'hundreds of millions of
pounds' number you used please.
Re: RanchHand | 7:54 p.m. May 28, 2011 Pres. Dieter F. Uchtdorf
isn't telling us to drop our standards or our beliefs in morality. Proof of my
statement is the support the LDS Church provided in support o California's Prop
8 ..... which passed.It was only later that we learned that the
California judge who ruled Prop 8 was unconstitutional had a personal interest
in the outcome. We call that a conflict of interest .... and the judge should
have disqualified himself from hearing the case.
@flynn:I disagree that ethics are irrelevant without a higher authority.
And whose interpretation of higher authority, by the way? There are many, you
know. And the variety has done little to bring world peace. In my opinion, 95%
of the world's problems would be solved if people would follow the golden rule
and resolve to "first do no harm". True, there are sometimes issues
that often get sketchy and have no real good solution, but this is the case when
we have a religioius leaders dictating rules as well. I think that
Hinckley was one of the better prophets as of late. He did a lot of good things
and he was good for PR, but he did say in 1996 at a large gathering "There
are no atheists in foxholes". This is my point. That even those who try
the hardest to unite people and work for a better understanding (like Hinckley)
still have no qualms about disparaging and dismissing atheists. I am an
atheist because I have seen no proof or irrefutable evidence. This is my
"sin". What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without
proof. (Christopher Hitchens)
Religious leaders are socialist, especially in Mormonism. Its the foundation of
their religion and beliefs and the United States is not a socialist republic.
Socialism in religion is for the church buildings and pews not our government
leaders. What this article is saying is to keep turning your other
cheek for a slapping, but I have run out cheeks for socialism to slap. If
religious leaders want to proselytize and preach they should do it in their
wards, not through the news media and trying to establish government policy.
That is why this country has a separation of church and state, to keep religion
from preaching to and controlling government.
Wastintime, You would not believe the amount of money and resources the church
has sent to many countries to relieve suffering.
Re: Wastintime"Question: How much does the Church do to
"relieve suffering" around the world?"They give
hundreds of millions of pounds of medical and emergency supplies and food to
people in need all around the world each year, in addition to money. They have
people on the ground, directing the distribution of the supplies, and they offer
church houses as shelter and rally points during natural disasters. They work to
beautify cities and neighborhoods, including Salt Lake City - which just brought
in hundreds of jobs to the area during a struggling ecomony. There's the
Perpetual Education Fund, which gives those who can't afford higher education in
developing areas the chance to do so. Members give fast offering donations and
community service all over the world. And that's not even considering the
spiritual aid the Church gives when it introduces the Gospel to a person or
@My2Cents- count me as a socialist- as I believe Pres. Uchdorf (and every other
LDS GA) encourage us to give liberally to those in need- despite nationality.
"If ye have done (not done" it unto the least of these my brethren, ye
have done (not done) it unto me." Matt 25. I'm also pretty sure "Thou
shalt not cross the border" was also not one of the 10 commandments. @moniker- Gordon B. Hinkley was famous for encouraging those not the
LDS faith to bring what good they had, and see it can be added to. It's
fantastic that you and many atheists I associate with are good human beings who
care for their fellow men/women. However, the tenets that you, I, and society
live by are completely relative without a higher authority making these codes
absolute. Societal agreements that state murdering, thieving, or crossing the
border are wrong, do not technically make them wrong. Thus, 'ethics' as we know
them, are completely irrelevant without a mandate from a higher authority.
"The more our hearts are inclined to God, the more we desire to relieve
suffering and help others become self-reliant."Question: How
much does the Church do to "relieve suffering" around the world?
To Truth - actually I am a registered Independent and am not at all far left. I
don't think the church fits with either the far right or left. The interesting
thing about far right members of the church is that most don't realize how
little the far right actually thinks of them. At least members who lean a little
left recognize how little their fellow members like you think of them.
I agree with Uchtdorf that it's important to "put away old hatred,
divisions, and traditions that constrict and confine people into a blind
succession of destructive behavior toward others". Truer words couldn't be
spoken. But I am also saddened that moments later, he added "The more our
hearts are inclined to God, the more we desire to relieve suffering ..."
He also tied in belief in deity with living a "charitable and
honorable" life. I'm afraid that just doesn't leave much room for
atheists who are, in fact, every bit as capable of living honorable and moral
lives. Atheists are so often judged harshly and then dismissed as being
potential contributers to a better world. Don't those who preach religious
tolerance see that their exclusion of atheists is, in fact, intolerant;
something that derives from "old hatred, divisions, and
traditions"?I'm anxiously awaiting the day that people like Uchtdorf
will stop seeing me as something that needs to be "fixed".If you
want me to believe in deity, give me proof. Seriously, that's all I ask. In
the mean time, some ideas everyone can take to heart would be great.
"It takes courage and humility to put away old hatred, divisions and
TRADITIONS that constrict and confine people into a blind succession of
destructive behavior toward others," ---Amen. Now
lets apply that to the same sex marriage issue.
Those for legal and against illegal immigration are much more global and
outreaching in their thinking as they are demonstrating a desire for fairnes
regardless of nationality or race. Illegal immigration and its supporters take
on a racist stance because giving illegals legal status would unfairly benefit
one race and one nationality. In essence the pro illegal crowd seek to hold up
hispanics as a special class of people over other races and nationalities who
are far more in need of our compassion and charity.
RE: Idaho CougIt fits just fine with the far right agenda.The Right is not against moderation, compassion, nor outreaching
globally.But yours seems a message of hate for certain segments of
the population that donot conform to your far left political views.The church is not political, but takes moral and doctrinal stands, you
either follow the gospel or you do not.
Pres. Uchtdorf, Is so..so..."Liberal".God
It is interesting how the church leadership (SLC leadership) has a much more
moderate, compassionate, outreaching, global tone than many of the members. I do
not think the church's message fits with the far right agenda.
If I understand 3 Nephi 9:20 -----anybody in the world (of any religion) can
have the Holy Ghost with them; the requirement is a broken heart and meek
Like so many times before, our Churches leadership has made me proud, again.
My2Cents | 3:36 a.m. May 28, 2011 Kearns, UT"To counter this
socialist speaking and using the news media to promote socialism we must stand
our ground even if it means violence and tragedy to defend our country from
socialist. You keep your enemy's close, you don't love them."Jesus said:"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your
neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for
those who persecute you"(Matthew 5.43-45 ESV)How do you
square that with your comment?
Love for an individual does not mean acceptance of immoral behavior.Thankfully, the church and Elder Utchtdorg understand that.
Gut gesprochen, which translated means well spoken. Hate is of the Devil. Pure
love is of God. Pure love does not deny the principles Christ preached and
lived. That is what we need more in our lives. Examples of this pure love.
Those who would comment that many of our wars have been started over religion
must remember that those people claiming they were doing it for religion simply
did not understand what the Love of Christ means and were doing their own thing
without the approval of the spirit.
RE: NeilT | 10:22 a.I don't know if Pres. Uctdorf is a socialist, he
may have grown up in socialist country and had no choice in th matter, but that
does not mean he supports socialism or is a socialist.In fact I can
not find anything that suggests he does.The church is all abouit
invidual choice, indivudual liberty, and has always been so, even in Book of
Mormon, times, does Moroni ring any bells, the church has always
been against big government which socialism is all about, forcing the individual
to the will of big government run by elites who want run everyone life and
business,The chuch is all about individual liberty, individual
organizations, doiing good by their own choice,thier own volition, hence all the
good things the churuch does as mention by Pres. Uctdorf, education, humatarian
efforts, welfare, teaching people to be good and motal people, good citizens, to
do good, not socialstic government compelled good.As
Pres. Uctdorf has shown the churc, and the gospel his all about loving each
other, bringing people together in righeousness, and accomplishing much good, by
thier own choice and volition.
I have had comments "denied".I have never advocated
"...violence and tragedy..." as a means to indicate I was
"standing my ground".Identifying a member of the 1st
Presidency as "socialist" and as an "enemy"?As
Donald Rumsfeld used to say, "Goodness Gracious".
@My2CentsYou speak of standing by decency and family in your
message. But yet you negate your message when you also say "we must stand
our ground even if it means violence and tragedy to defend our country from
socialist." Which is it--decency or violence? Work on the
decency--your family will be blessed by that!
I support Pres. Uchdtorf and his message here. We need to take it to heart. I
know it is the same message Pres. Monson or Pres. Eyring would give. The First
President is a united front, defiantly when it comes to the public face and
messages such as this one. Change your heart, get rid of hate, and be happy. :D
I knew it. Someone had to make this about socialism. If Pres Uchdtorf is a
socialist then count me as one of his strongest supporters. Sorry MY 2 Cents.
Your post borders on the ridiculous. And I am trying to be civil about it. One
last thought I think Pres Uchdorf does support faith, family, deceny and all the
other things you mentioned. Are you implying a counselor in the first
Presidency does not. How absurd.
Excellent comments. Should be well received by a christian nation.
@My2Cents:It says that you typed that at 3:36 in the morning. I
have NO clue where that came from, or what it has to do with anything Pres.
Uchtdorf said. Did you not only read the message, but take it into your
heart?The only way these changes can be made is through the
individual changes in the heart of man. That means me. That means YOU. Stop
worrying about the government that you can't control. Change your heart, and
work to change the hearts of others...maybe eventually a heart or two in our
government will change. Peace.
Love they neighbor. Okay. Become one in faith and beliefs. Okay. However, this
speech rings more about accepting illegals in our country and to turn the other
cheek. Not okay. First and foremost, we must protect this country from those
who deem it their duty and right to infiltrate our country illegally and then
demand every inalienable right afforded to each lawful citizen as if they are
entitled. Again, not okay. Bringing people unto Christ can be done just as
effectively in the countries where illegals come from. Nice argument. But to
continue to allow our country to be infiltrated and invaded by illegals who
bring nothing to this country, no money, no national respect, non-English
speaking skills continues to cripple this country. The anger by those of us who
are legally here is understandable and frankly justified. Do it the right way
in coming to this country or face the consequences. No church, no government
has the right to ignore the laws of the land and personally I feel that this is
the case. We can love the illegals from a distance; their own lands. But when
you sneak into our country and make demands? Wrong again.
Last night on BBC I heard someone talk about how the people in the world should
avoid country boundries and also effectively different laws for different
countries. I wonder about groups like the one where Pres. Uchtdorf spoke. What
is their purpose? Is it global economics, politics etc. If so I think the church
should avoid politics.
Now this is a good road map to building peaceful communities not just across
America, but one day across the whole world. The world is not ready to follow
such a map, but is America? I feel that the people are being prepared to follow
such a course, but the political groups and parties lack this vision and
direction. And, neither politics or religion will ever accomplish such a unity
among the people. It will take a sound belief in correct principles to bridge
the barriers of intolerance, greed, jealousy and hatred.
Wow! What a great message. Now, if only a significant number of people would
accept President Uchtdorf's invitation, that would start the ball rolling in the
right direction!I am hopeful that such might actually occur. The
pessimist in me is fearful that it may not. But, perhaps, the Spirit of God may
rest on enough so that, beyond and besides my and others' fears, it may yet
To counter this socialist speaking and using the news media to promote socialism
we must stand our ground even if it means violence and tragedy to defend our
country from socialist. You keep your enemy's close, you don't love them.Also very important is for every one to stand by their principles of
decency, honesty, truth, god, country, and family. Many of these principles are
considered hate principles because they offend those with no principles. Hate
many times is associated with American principles of life, liberty, justice, and
the American way of life.Defending our borders is a hate crime
according to illegal aliens and foreign nationals occupying this country and
sanctioned in Utah. Trying to force illegal aliens back to Mexico by deproting
is considered a hate crime by illegal aliens and advocates and the Deseret
News. If there is truly anything to hate is our governments neglect
and criminal actions against americans wanting to preserve their country, their
rights, their american way of life that is not always better living conditions
We were there last night at the event. It was very well attended and the
remarks were very well received.